Nirvana or Smashing Pumpkins

[Hastyl3]

Okay... These two bands pretty much ruled the ninety's. Nirvana had their smash hit albums "Never Mind" with songs such as "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and "Lithium" and "In Utero" with songs such as "Heart-Shaped Box". Smashing Pumpkins had their hit albums "Siamese Dream" with songs such as "Cherub Rock" and "Today" and their two-disc album, Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness with songs such as "Bullet With butterfly Wings" and "Tonight, Tonight". Both bands had their flaws, scares, and tragedies. The mental problems of Kurt Cobain that drove him to suicide. Smashing Pumpkins' drummer's, bassist's, and pianist's drug problems were a great flaw. The drummer(Jimmy Chaimberlain) along with the pianist at the time had an OD. The drummer survived his but the pianist did not. So who do you prefer, Smashing Pumpkins with their joyfulness or, Nirvana and their aggressive "grunge" style?

[sa_nick]

I'm gonna have to go for the Pumpkins. I was born in 1986 and until I hit high school I only ever listened to music my parents listened to (their not the cool parents that listen to good music either, I'm talking like Tina Arena and Celiene Dion and crap).

I don't know if my tastes would be different had I been living the 90's in the 90's rather than now, but in my opinion Nirvana's got nothing on the Smashing Pumpkins. I still do like Nirvana, it's just the the Pumpkins are in my top 5 bands.

[cmg4894]

First, pianoist? That's not a word, it's keyboardist. Second, for a game like this with ALL the instruments, NIRVANA. If it was just GH I would go with Smashing Pumpkins. But come on Dave on DRUMS. How can you pick anything else?

[Hastyl3]

this isnt about the game. it's about who you like better music wise. and Jimmy Chaimberlain is a better musician actually, if you listened to bullet with butterfly wings, it would be better suited for this game.

[cmg4894]

this isnt about the game. it's about who you like better music wise. and Jimmy Chaimberlain is a better musician actually, if you listened to bullet with butterfly wings, it would be better suited for this game.


What are you on and can I have some? Chaimberlain a better MUSICIAN? Come on. He plays the drums and only the drums. Dave, plays everything, and sings. I like the Smashing Pumpkins and I'm getting the new album in a week or so. Both bands have very different styles. The only thing in common with Billy and Kurt is they both dated C. Love. BTW I'm no drummer but Bullet With Butterfly Wings is really easy on drums, I can play it. If you want to compare songs, pick a different song.

[Hastyl3]

What are you on and can I have some? Chaimberlain a better MUSICIAN? Come on. He plays the drums and only the drums. Dave, plays everything, and sings. I like the Smashing Pumpkins and I'm getting the new album in a week or so. Both bands have very different styles. The only thing in common with Billy and Kurt is they both dated C. Love. BTW I'm no drummer but Bullet With Butterfly Wings is really easy on drums, I can play it. If you want to compare songs, pick a different song.

he plays guitar too. and are you sure about bullet with butterfly wings being easy on drums? and plus im not picking it just because of the drum, it's a good all around song if you actually listen to it.

[PDMChubby]

To me, they're both pretty damn generic. I mean, they sound too much like themselves. They started movements and influenced a lot of people, sure, but if you get past that, they're songs sound alike. That is, this Nirvana song sounds like that Nirvana song, and this Pumpkins song sounds like that Pumpkins song. Grunge really wasn't a big thing for me. If I had to pick one of the two (which I didn't), I would pick the Pumpkins, just for the fact that their songs are a bit more creative, and I get pissed off when people say "Kurt Cobain was a musical genius" or when they have insane conspiracy theories that Courtney Love killed him. Honestly, I'd rather listen to Tool, RHCP, Pearl Jam, Primus, Rage Against the Machine, or even 311.

[geovin221]

To me, they're both pretty damn generic. I mean, they sound too much like themselves. They started movements and influenced a lot of people, sure, but if you get past that, they're songs sound alike. That is, this Nirvana song sounds like that Nirvana song, and this Pumpkins song sounds like that Pumpkins song. Grunge really wasn't a big thing for me. If I had to pick one of the two (which I didn't), I would pick the Pumpkins, just for the fact that their songs are a bit more creative, and I get pissed off when people say "Kurt Cobain was a musical genius" or when they have insane conspiracy theories that Courtney Love killed him. Honestly, I'd rather listen to Tool, RHCP, Pearl Jam, Primus, Rage Against the Machine, or even 311.

Well it just Kurt's lyrics reached to alot of teens, thats probly why they say stuff like that.I'm a farley big fan of grunge, pumkins are more happy and still they ae some what grunge. but this time in my life im into more darker sounding music, so nirvana for me... but honestly i rather listen to stuff like soundgarden and stone temple pilots (wich are grunge). but i still like pumkins alot, i have a couple songs on my ipod like "today" and "butterfly wings". i wanna get the new album too!

[newwaytodie]

The ninties were the dark ages of music. I regret having to spend my adolescence in that dark time. Fortunately I discovered older music because of this abyssmal period.

[Hastyl3]

Well it just Kurt's lyrics reached to alot of teens, thats probly why they say stuff like that.I'm a farley big fan of grunge, pumkins are more happy and still they ae some what grunge. but this time in my life im into more darker sounding music, so nirvana for me... but honestly i rather listen to stuff like soundgarden and stone temple pilots (wich are grunge). but i still like pumkins alot, i have a couple songs on my ipod like "today" and "butterfly wings". i wanna get the new album too!

have you listened to Gish? Disarm, Mayonaise, Landslide?

And to the person who said they sound generic. Uhhh... tey were famous because of that style. All the albums had a style their own. Nirvana, yeah they were generic not cause, I'm a Pumpkins fan but, listen to all their songs. Lithium sounds like Heart-Shaped Box, Smells Like teen Spirit Sounds like Rape Me. I can't really think of many Pumpkins songs that repeat themselves.*Listens to his Pumpkins collection* Still haven't found any. Unless you even try to compare Disarm and Tonight, Tonight. Nirvana is way too overrated nowadays. Instead of pointing out other bands from the 90's, people just point out the obvious Nirvana from the early 90's. and well today wouldn't be a very good song in the game cause the drums are very repetitive. Bullet With Butterfly Wings is a must though.

[PDMChubby]

have you listened to Gish? Disarm, Mayonaise, Landslide?

And to the person who said they sound generic. Uhhh... tey were famous because of that style. All the albums had a style their own. Nirvana, yeah they were generic not cause, I'm a Pumpkins fan but, listen to all their songs. Lithium sounds like Heart-Shaped Box, Smells Like teen Spirit Sounds like Rape Me. I can't really think of many Pumpkins songs that repeat themselves.*Listens to his Pumpkins collection* Still haven't found any. Unless you even try to compare Disarm and Tonight, Tonight. Nirvana is way too overrated nowadays. Instead of pointing out other bands from the 90's, people just point out the obvious Nirvana from the early 90's. and well today wouldn't be a very good song in the game cause the drums are very repetitive. Bullet With Butterfly Wings is a must though.

That's what I'm saying, Nirvana and Cobain are too overrated, I hate that. They don't deserve all the fame they have, if you listen to the catalogue, it's pretty generic, like I said. The Pumpkins are a little more creative, like I said, the songs are pretty diverse, but they still sound like themselves too much. The sound they have in general is just kind of annoying. Overly distorted guitars aren't my style. I was going to pick up the new CD, but I decided against it because they only have two of the original members, so I don't worry about the Pumpkins anymore.

[geovin221]

That's what I'm saying, Nirvana and Cobain are too overrated, I hate that. They don't deserve all the fame they have, if you listen to the catalogue, it's pretty generic, like I said. The Pumpkins are a little more creative, like I said, the songs are pretty diverse, but they still sound like themselves too much. The sound they have in general is just kind of annoying. Overly distorted guitars aren't my style. I was going to pick up the new CD, but I decided against it because they only have two of the original members, so I don't worry about the Pumpkins anymore.

duh they where way over rated and they got alot of attention, but besides their same sounding music there still a great band. although they pretty much slit there own wrists by making music that became to popular that was formally underground... grunge would of done much better if it stayed underground, (cause some of the grunge bands sold out and turned into post grunge wich sounds really generic) it wouldve survived way longer than it did. only having about a 4 year streak in the mainstream. when they all ready hated glam metal guys cause they sold out. OXYMORON

[Desensitized]

I'd rather listen to Pavement and Dinosaur Jr. than those two. They're far better bands. They also have singers who don't make my ears bleed.

[cmg4894]

I'd rather listen to Pavement and Dinosaur Jr. than those two. They're far better bands. They also have singers who don't make my ears bleed.

Two great bands. But, all you kiddies that were born the year Nevermind came out listen.... The album that was number one before Nevermind hit number on was Michael Jackson's 'Bad'. I like Smashing Pumpkins and they do have great songs/albums. But they would not, did not, and could not change the face of music. 'Gish' in '91 [the same year Nevermind came out] it had great songs but no 'hits'. '93 'Siamese Dream' had 'Today'. A decent hit, but by no means ground breaking. '95 'Mellon Collie...etc.' now this was their break out album. It is great but, would it have happened without Nevermind. I'm not really sure. If 'grunge' wasn't big [And yes their were considered grunge] would they have been able to make that album. And to the one that said Nirvana songs sound the same I agree to a point. But, use better examples and know your facts. First, HSB and Lithium sound nothing a like except they both have single note verses. Second 'Rape Me' is supposed to sound like SLTS. Cobain did that because he wanted to write another hit with the same riff to make fun of all record buyers.

Keep in mind what was out and when it was out. If you want to talk ground breaking it's Nirvana. They by no means invented the Seattle sound, and were far from the best but they just clicked with most people at that time. If you want to talk about who sounds the same they are both guilty of sounding like themselves. Isn't that why we like bands? How would you feel if your favorite band came out with a new sound with every album. If you don't like their new sound would you still like them at all? Probably not.

[BlackHole]

Um, Kurt didn't have mental problems. Kurt and Courtney had an arguement he got pissed, locked himself in his room, Courtney called the cops to stop Kurt from ya'know commiting suicide,Kurt blew his head with a shotgun and that was it.

[geovin221]

Two great bands. But, all you kiddies that were born the year Nevermind came out listen.... The album that was number one before Nevermind hit number on was Michael Jackson's 'Bad'. I like Smashing Pumpkins and they do have great songs/albums. But they would not, did not, and could not change the face of music. 'Gish' in '91 [the same year Nevermind came out] it had great songs but no 'hits'. '93 'Siamese Dream' had 'Today'. A decent hit, but by no means ground breaking. '95 'Mellon Collie...etc.' now this was their break out album. It is great but, would it have happened without Nevermind. I'm not really sure. If 'grunge' wasn't big [And yes their were considered grunge] would they have been able to make that album. And to the one that said Nirvana songs sound the same I agree to a point. But, use better examples and know your facts. First, HSB and Lithium sound nothing a like except they both have single note verses. Second 'Rape Me' is supposed to sound like SLTS. Cobain did that because he wanted to write another hit with the same riff to make fun of all record buyers.

Keep in mind what was out and when it was out. If you want to talk ground breaking it's Nirvana. They by no means invented the Seattle sound, and were far from the best but they just clicked with most people at that time. If you want to talk about who sounds the same they are both guilty of sounding like themselves. Isn't that why we like bands? How would you feel if your favorite band came out with a new sound with every album. If you don't like their new sound would you still like them at all? Probably not.

r u saying that if not for the success of nirvana, the pumkins would probly not have the success that they had? (because if thats the case i agree with you) If they changed dinosaur jr every album like from alt. rock to jazz would u like them??? people just dont see what nirvana did for the grunge and alt. music! nirvana was ground breaking cause it DID click... like u said michal jakson would still be popular if it wornt for them. it doesnt meen they were the best, but popular. but if u really think about it they didnt really want to be popular, but sacrafising that gave the other grunge bands a chance to get popular.

o yeah and buy the way, that were'nt all the key elements of the sucide factor with kurt. (herroin did not help)

[Rev0lver]

pearl jam ftw!

[franknfurter1000]

I like the smashing pupmpkins, but I'm more of a FNM, RATM, and Primus man myself.

[cmg4894]

Since this thread has turned into more of a all around grunge, or alt. rock of the 90's you people should really watch "1991: The Year Punk Rock Broke" by director Dave Markey. It is mostly Sonic Youth for the Reading Festival that year but there are others. Nirvana has a couple of songs. But the two stand out performances are Babes In Toyland 'Dustcake Boy' and Dinosaur Jr. 'Freak Scene'. It is not out on DVD, but if you can find the tape it's great. It shows how close most of the bands from the time were. Just a great video with fun behind the scenes stuff.

[PDMChubby]

I like the smashing pupmpkins, but I'm more of a FNM, RATM, and Primus man myself.

Hell yes! Anyway, just because I was born in 91 doesn't mean I don't know Nirvana or music in general.

[geovin221]

Hell yes! Anyway, just because I was born in 91 doesn't mean I don't know Nirvana or music in general.

dude you just dont understand...

[PDMChubby]

dude you just dont understand...

What the **** don't I understand? Sure, I know the 90's changed music for the better, and Nirvana had a big role in that, but that doesn't mean they're a good band. I think that's opinion a lot of people share. The 90's spawned a huge ammount of better music than Nirvana, it doesn't matter how influential they were or still are, and that's all I'm saying; Nirvana is a joke, they may have gotten things done, but it doesn't matter to me, it's about the music they play, not what music gets started from them playing. Don't tell me I don't understand.

[cmg4894]

What the **** don't I understand? Sure, I know the 90's changed music for the better, and Nirvana had a big role in that, but that doesn't mean they're a good band. I think that's opinion a lot of people share. The 90's spawned a huge ammount of better music than Nirvana, it doesn't matter how influential they were or still are, and that's all I'm saying; Nirvana is a joke, they may have gotten things done, but it doesn't matter to me, it's about the music they play, not what music gets started from them playing. Don't tell me I don't understand.

This statement is why geovin221 is completely correct.

[PDMChubby]

This statement is why geovin221 is completely correct.

What, just because I listen to bands that have good music? I don't sit there and listen to Nirvana going "Wow, this kinda sucks, but it's alright, because they started a movement, so I'm going to keep listening to this." Bands aren't automatically good just because they're important to the history of music. It means they were important to people, but not neccisarily everyone. Sunny Day Real Estate somewhat started a movement (kept it going, but whatever), and I think we could all live without that influence. In my eyes, bands should be remembered for the music they make, not the music that they influenced in being made. It makes more sense.

[Kutsic]

I'm gunna have to say that both bands are severly overrated. Pumpkins aren't bad I guess, but I definitely think Tarantula is about 30x better than anything they wrote back in the day.

Nirvana on the other hand, I think is quite possibly the most overrated band in history. All their songs are pretty bland, a lot of them sound alike, and honestly, they wouldn't be half as famous if Kurt Cobain hadn't shot himself(or been murdered, or whatever you believe, I don't care). And I'm not just saying that because I don't like Nirvana, I feel the same way about Pantera. Sure, they're good, yes Dimebag is a great guitar player, but honestly, I don't see what the big deal is. Aside from that they were very influencial for the time, I don't understand what sets them apart from anyone else, and most people I know didn't even know a ****ing thing about them until Dimebag was shot and they were put on Guitar Hero.

[Shneybz]

Both are in my top 5 fav bands. Pearl Jam is good too. But Nirvana beats the crap out of SP. Pumpkins are like tied for 2nd on my favs and Nirvana is tied for #1. Its just that Nirvana was amazing throughout their entire career. SP were good at the beginning up until Machina then they went downhill. Their new album Zeitgiest, sucks. And this is coming from a huge SP fan. And yes Kutsic, they are both overrated. Im sick of seeing kids in my school wearing Nirvana shirts and i ask them what their favorite song is and they respond "Smells Like Teen Spirit". To all those kids out there who have only heard that song and say you like them, you are ****ing posers. Dont listen to the band because they are on MTV and its popular, listen to it becuase you like it, i can bet money that most of that group havent heard any of the Nirvana songs that are my favorite. And Kutsic, i suggest listening to more of Nirvana's songs, they DEFINITELY do not sound all the same. So yea back on topic, Nirvana hands down.

[Desensitized]

I was born in the 80s and was listening to alternative rock in the early to mid 90s. Nirvana weren't that good then, and they aren't that good now.

They were ALWAYS overrated.

[Blue88]

Nirvana. I can't stand Billy Corgan's voice.

[geovin221]

What, just because I listen to bands that have good music? I don't sit there and listen to Nirvana going "Wow, this kinda sucks, but it's alright, because they started a movement, so I'm going to keep listening to this." Bands aren't automatically good just because they're important to the history of music. It means they were important to people, but not neccisarily everyone. Sunny Day Real Estate somewhat started a movement (kept it going, but whatever), and I think we could all live without that influence. In my eyes, bands should be remembered for the music they make, not the music that they influenced in being made. It makes more sense.

ITS BECAUSE THEY CLICKED, u dont have to like them. in reallity they WERE A BETTER BAND! SP is great, just get it that they are a better band and where a better band.

[geovin221]

SP was oviously not good enough to start a music revolution were they?!

[geovin221]

What, just because I listen to bands that have good music? I don't sit there and listen to Nirvana going "Wow, this kinda sucks, but it's alright, because they started a movement, so I'm going to keep listening to this." Bands aren't automatically good just because they're important to the history of music. It means they were important to people, but not neccisarily everyone. Sunny Day Real Estate somewhat started a movement (kept it going, but whatever), and I think we could all live without that influence. In my eyes, bands should be remembered for the music they make, not the music that they influenced in being made. It makes more sense.

Nirvana was a better band, because they were more popular (back then) i think theyre a better band now. but thats my opinion, and you have an opinion.... but the facts were with most people that hey thought nirvana was a better band. sure they were over rated, but that meens that people thought they were better.

[BlackHole]

Then, there are rumors that that wasn't it.

[Hastyl3]

SP was oviously not good enough to start a music revolution were they?!

start watching the simpsons a little more often and you'll see(the lollapalooza episode and the the frank grimes episode). and most people are only voting nirvana cause they've only heard Nirvana's Smells Like Teen Spirit. Hear more of their songs and think they are better than the pumpkins. Heart Shaped Box and Lithium are the same thing. The rhythm stays the same amount of time(well maybe a second off). nirvana is overrated mostly because you guys have only heard teen spirit. their solos were garbage. listen to Sp's Cherub Rock Solo, Geek USA Solo, and Here Is No Why Solo. Nirvana was really generic and wouldn't even be half as famous as they are now if Cobain didn't blow his brains out. And yes, Cobain did have mental problems.

[Seattle_Sound]

start watching the simpsons a little more often and you'll see(the lollapalooza episode and the the frank grimes episode). and most people are only voting nirvana cause they've only heard Nirvana's Smells Like Teen Spirit. Hear more of their songs and think they are better than the pumpkins. Heart Shaped Box and Lithium are the same thing. The rhythm stays the same amount of time(well maybe a second off). nirvana is overrated mostly because you guys have only heard teen spirit. their solos were garbage. listen to Sp's Cherub Rock Solo, Geek USA Solo, and Here Is No Why Solo. Nirvana was really generic and wouldn't even be half as famous as they are now if Cobain didn't blow his brains out. And yes, Cobain did have mental problems.

I'm pissed off right now, I hate it when people say crap about Nirvana because they were "mainstream" or "overrated". Was Teen Spirit overrated? Yes. Was it a good song? Yes. Was Nirvana overrated? Yes. Does that mean they suck? No they are a great band who made some great songs. Who gives a crap if Lithium and HSB sound alike. THATS TWO SONGS. Nevermind was a great album with no filler whatsoever. In Utero is a masterpiece in my opinion. Dave Grohl is a fantastic musician who can play drums, guitar, bass, and sing. Quit judging Nirvana by Teen Spirit and Lithium. Have you even listened to songs like Drain You and Sappy? Ever heard Old Age? Tourettes? And I think the Pumpkins are kickass too.

[Desensitized]

I'm pissed off right now, I hate it when people say crap about Nirvana because they were "mainstream" or "overrated". Was Teen Spirit overrated? Yes. Was it a good song? Yes. Was Nirvana overrated? Yes. Does that mean they suck? No they are a great band who made some great songs. Who gives a crap if Lithium and HSB sound alike. THATS TWO SONGS. Nevermind was a great album with no filler whatsoever. In Utero is a masterpiece in my opinion. Dave Grohl is a fantastic musician who can play drums, guitar, bass, and sing. Quit judging Nirvana by Teen Spirit and Lithium. Have you even listened to songs like Drain You and Sappy? Ever heard Old Age? Tourettes? And I think the Pumpkins are kickass too.
... Or they could, y'know, just not like the music. Believe it or not, there are people who just don't like Nirvana.

[JudasHendrix]

Right here.

I mean, I don't hate them, but really? If I hear "Heart Shaped Box" or some **** on the radio one more time something's going to get molotov cocktailed.

I'm one of those people who really feels strongly about overrated bands regardless of talent. I mean, I'm the first to admit a dude who can play bass, guitar, drums AND sing is pretty badass. But let's be honest - we've heard it all a million times, and let's not even get into the whole "omg Kurt Cobain shot his own head and now the band is legendary" can of worms.

So yeah. To stay on track, I would choose neither Smashing Pumpkins nor Nirvana. I'd go with "Do The Evolution" by Pearl Jam.

[Seattle_Sound]

Right here.

I mean, I don't hate them, but really? If I hear "Heart Shaped Box" or some **** on the radio one more time something's going to get molotov cocktailed.

I'm one of those people who really feels strongly about overrated bands regardless of talent. I mean, I'm the first to admit a dude who can play bass, guitar, drums AND sing is pretty badass. But let's be honest - we've heard it all a million times, and let's not even get into the whole "omg Kurt Cobain shot his own head and now the band is legendary" can of worms.

So yeah. To stay on track, I would choose neither Smashing Pumpkins nor Nirvana. I'd go with "Do The Evolution" by Pearl Jam.

But the thing is, songs like HSB and Teen Spirit arent even their best songs. Kurt said he thought Teen Spirit was "lame" and to me HSB is the weakest songs on In Utero. If you really looked into the Nirvana catelog deeper you would see that you havent heard it all a million times. The Bleach album is very different from Nevermind. And I dont like Nirvana because Kurt killed himself. The people who are like "OMG Kurdt is da god, he is teh ****" those people are just ******ed. My point is that you cant automatically say a band sucks because they are overrated. Thats just not fair.

[Seattle_Sound]

... Or they could, y'know, just not like the music. Believe it or not, there are people who just don't like Nirvana.

Sry about the double post

I understand if you just dont like them but just because you dont like them doesnt mean that I am stupid for liking them because they are "overrated". Just because you dont like them doesnt mean they suck.

[Desensitized]

Sry about the double post

I understand if you just dont like them but just because you dont like them doesnt mean that I am stupid for liking them because they are "overrated". Just because you dont like them doesnt mean they suck.
Well, that's true. I would never insult someone for liking a certain band or music, everything's opinion after all.

I actually don't mind songs like "Lithium", or "In Bloom" which aren't as overplayed as "Smells Like Teen Spirit" (Nirvana's "Stairway To Heaven", basically)... Believe me, I was excited to see "In Bloom" made the song list for Rock Band, cause I actually like the song.

[ThePaska]

I love all three bands you have up there, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, and Smashing Pumpkins. I only really got into Pearl Jam and Smashing Pumpkins because I first listened to Nirvana.

This is why I picked them, and I really have been a big fan of their music for a while now, a lot of their music is just so catchy and has a lot of energy about it, I just really always enjoyed it. I feel like Pearl Jam and Pumpkins have this too, but not all the time. I can listen to every Nirvana song ever made and enjoy myself, I can't really do that with the other two.


I hope all three bands make it into Rock Band too, I love that In Bloom is in the game, and hopefully this means Nevermind will be DLC because I would really love that. I think Rock Band needs some Pearl Jam and Pumpkins

[Hastyl3]

okay, well we made a great point her. everyone agree's nirvana is overrated. but if you looks at the poles not everyone who voted here posted which could give some insight on what fans are really into it. but i really think smashing pumpkins had more talent than nirvana. nirvana was pretty much jst there breaking stuff. yeah i like nirvana but if you'd met me or looked at my music collection on limewire, you'll see im like one of the biggest pumpkins fans in the world.

[JimNasium]

One thing that really pissed me off about The Smashing Pumpkins was the awful live shows they did. They just didn't care. And Billy Corgan.......well you know.
Nirvana had a massive impact that the Pumpkins couldn't touch.
Talking about musicianship, I think something people get wrong with music is skill and creativity. It's nice if you can play Evolution, but if you can't write a song, you're going to be nothing but a session musician (of you're lucky). Kurt couldn't play like Jimi, but he could write excellent, catchy songs. Plus Nirvana had the best drummer of the 90's. So I'm going to have to go with Nirvana (though I am a bigger Pearl Jam fan)

[joeincolorado]

Based solely on my own personal opinion...I'm going to have to go with Nirvana. I just never truly cared for The Smashing Pumpkins.

[Seattle_Sound]

One thing that really pissed me off about The Smashing Pumpkins was the awful live shows they did. They just didn't care. And Billy Corgan.......well you know.
Nirvana had a massive impact that the Pumpkins couldn't touch.
Talking about musicianship, I think something people get wrong with music is skill and creativity. It's nice if you can play Evolution, but if you can't write a song, you're going to be nothing but a session musician (of you're lucky). Kurt couldn't play like Jimi, but he could write excellent, catchy songs. Plus Nirvana had the best drummer of the 90's. So I'm going to have to go with Nirvana (though I am a bigger Pearl Jam fan)

I love Billy but the Pumpkins did some wierd live shows. I mean is 5 extremely different versions of Bullet With Butterfly Wings really necesarry?

[Hastyl3]

One thing that really pissed me off about The Smashing Pumpkins was the awful live shows they did. They just didn't care. And Billy Corgan.......well you know.
Nirvana had a massive impact that the Pumpkins couldn't touch.
Talking about musicianship, I think something people get wrong with music is skill and creativity. It's nice if you can play Evolution, but if you can't write a song, you're going to be nothing but a session musician (of you're lucky). Kurt couldn't play like Jimi, but he could write excellent, catchy songs. Plus Nirvana had the best drummer of the 90's. So I'm going to have to go with Nirvana (though I am a bigger Pearl Jam fan)

u kno, u could've picked the pearl jam option. but yeah, from what I've seen, smashing pumpkins have bad live shows... or maybe it was D'arcy and iha who planned those out. but then again, the pumpkins might not have wanted you to hear the same version of the song over and over at their shows. Sure Billy was arrogant, but couldn't Iha and D'arcy have done their part in the songwriting?

[Keagan2387]

Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana is probably the most overrated band of all time.

[CarusoBattle]

Gonna have to go with the Pumpkins on this one. They all seem to be gigantic tools, but in the end they wrote some good, polished, "alternative" rock songs.

And Nirvana didn't kick off ****. Grunge existed before people heard Nirvana. That's like saying that dumbass Run DMC version of "Walk This Way" invented Hip Hop.

[Raider87]

Ya I like the Smashing Pumpkins but I'd have to say Nirvana is much better.... In my opinion the early 90's was one of the best music ages with the Seattle 4 and all

[IbanezBassist_v2]

Eh....I could handle either band...

[trent0090]

Hmm, this could be hard. Nirvana had the biggest importance in the early 90's. The pumpkins goal was to make good music even if they didn't have a ton of fun. I can respect that. Though Pearl jam has been true to their sound over the years. So I would go with pearl jam. The new cd is pretty damn good.

[lithiumkc]

Im a huge fan of melody in music... And personally I think cobain came up with great ones. I realize now that they were pretty overrated, but had they not been they're still a good band. Tons of catchy songs, great fun to sing along with, still one of my favorite bands. Pumpkins are alright but I find that songs I like are few and far between, whereas with nirvana it's songs I DON'T like that i rarely find.

[Hastyl3]

Im a huge fan of melody in music... And personally I think cobain came up with great ones. I realize now that they were pretty overrated, but had they not been they're still a good band. Tons of catchy songs, great fun to sing along with, still one of my favorite bands. Pumpkins are alright but I find that songs I like are few and far between, whereas with nirvana it's songs I DON'T like that i rarely find.

so you would rather have your voice start off deep and and then start moaning? and uhhmmm listen to siamese dream, melancholy and the infinite sadness, or did u think they are a new band?

[Desensitized]

I can't stand Corgan's voice.

That is the greatest factor that keeps me from enjoying their music.

[lithiumkc]

so you would rather have your voice start off deep and and then start moaning? and uhhmmm listen to siamese dream, melancholy and the infinite sadness, or did u think they are a new band?

What are you talking about? I know who the pumpkins are, apparently more than you considering the name is 'MELLON COLLIE and the infinite sadness'. I just prefer cobains voice over billys slightly whiny voice. I like a few pumpkins songs. I like a lot of nirvana songs.

[rcf1105]

I'll say Nirvana, although I'll admit that I hadn't heard about the Smashing Pumpkins until just recently.

[WildWalker]

I picked Smashing Pumpkins because I was never really in to Nirvana, didn't really like Kur Cobain I guess.

Now, if you had added 'Dave Grohl' to the choices I would have picked him for sure, Mr Drum it, Strum it, Sing it multi talented look at me.

Foo Fighters are great and you see Dave in so many other bands videos too.

Rock on Dave.

WW

[pure_rocker]

im gonna go with nirvana cause i like them and i havent heard much of smashing pumpkins

[RiffMeister]

I would enjoy performing Smashing Pumpkins songs more than Nirvana songs.

There are more Nirvana songs that I enjoy listening to than Smashing Pumpkin songs.

Pearl Jam is just a bunch of over-rated, over-hyped performers..... like Bruce Sprinsteen is, over-rated and over-hyped!! You don't have to agree.... that's just my opinion!!

[ziggy stardust]

This is hard for me to say but I like Nirvana slightly better.

[COVY]

Like both bands but are not really compairable. The Smashing Pumpkins are much more timeless and talented. I play drums, guitar, harmonica, and even a little jaw-harp. I have a good understanding of song structure, and have been In a few bands. Even If you do not like the Pumpkins music most experts will tell you they are much more advanced in their understanding of music.

[Childs Play]

Nirvana all the effin way man. I am a die hard Nirvana fan from the very beginning.

[senomar]

Smashing Pumpkins were better songwriters, but Nirvana was an overall better band, IMO.

[jimmymadstdnt]

Absolutely Pumpkins how is this even a question?

1. Guitar- I mean there's no question who's the more talented guitarist (Corgan, stupid!).
Corgan is incredibly talented, one of the top 5 the 90s produced. He is incredibly skilled technically and his ear for harmony is unrivaled by anyone of the ear.

2. Drums- Jimmy Chamberlain by far, just listen to Today or (again) Geek U.S.A. from
Siamese Dream.

3. Songwriting- Corgan was/is an incredibly writer, his albums are masterworks, they're like
rock symphonies, bringing heavier sounds to deep album-oriented rock like Queen. Deep
songs with an ear for harmony and melody that is unmatched by anyone of the day.
The songs are elaborate with overdubbing and technically impressive on all instruments,
but not in an over the top, bad way like the 80s.
Melancholy was "The Wall" of the 1990's.

4. Their earlier work was far better, albums like Siamese Dream and Gish are superior in
every way.

5. Lyrically Corgan wins time and time again if you actually to the material. The die-hard
faithful of Nirvana will not agree, but as with anything related to the band this is due to
bias and ignorance and not merit.

6. Nirvana would not be nearly as important in the minds of the average fan today if Kurt
Cobain had not died. The fact that they are considered more than a "pretty good band"
by fans is solely because he died. I mean, bands like Soundgarden and Pearl Jam were
also more talented and putting out better music.

If you seriously think that the Pumpkins were not the better band you are too ignorant on the subject to be able to speak.

[Fathoms]

^ 1) Very true. Billy Corgan used his guitar to craft a wildly diverse sound that included elements of glam, metal, pyschedelia, shoegazer and pop. Among his alt. rock peers, it's hard to imagine anyone more talented.

2) Jimmy Chamberlin is a victim of the band he's in. His brilliant playing is often buried in the mix under countless guitar tracks (not to mention questionable production choices) and consequently the visceral beauty of his playing is rarely at the forefront on record (except on Zeitgeist, check out United States). Live, he's one of the most powerful men behind the kit you'll see. Definatley a step above Grohl.

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3-6) Cobain was a very good songwriter who never let ambition get in the way of getting the most out of a great melody. However, while Corgans ambiton on occaisionly gets the best of him, he's written countless classic hooks that Cobain can't touch. Musically or lyrically. Corgan's been the victim of his own flaws on more than one occasion, but his strengths are far less limited than Cobains. Corgan never had a song as big as Smells Like Teen Spirit, but that song really isn't close to being the best song Nirvana made, Cobain wrote it basically as a mock pixies song, and of course history shows that dying at the height of your popularity is pretty much the most brilliant career move a musician can make.

[Eastern-Eagles]

The Pumpkins are better than Nirvana in every way.

[RedPyramidSH]

No one else has ever really captured the pumpkins sound when they were in their prime. Nirvana had tons of imitators. 'nuff said.

[The_Little_Buster]

To be honest I'd say f*** both bands, Dinosaur Jr ftw honestly in this case.

But if I'd have to pick I'd say Pumpkins, Corgan is an extremely underrated guitarist and pretty much artist all around.

[St. Michael]

That's a tough choice :confused:... But I'd have to go with the Pumpkins. I have to be in the right mood for either band, but I always feel better after listening to the Pumpkins.

[DasKonstruct]

Pumpkins. As stated before, Nirvana would have burned out by 95 if Cobain didn't off himself. Nirvana did nothing for grunge and merely responsible for bringing it to the limelight. The reason for their popularity was 1 song that caught on and after that it was merely an episode of Springer where everyone just watched Kurt run himself into the ground. He made a good headline during his benders.

PS

Anyone who wasn't 5 or younger at that time remembers the media hoopla over the heroin use especially after the unplugged special.

[tombrady]

I saw "flip them" and hit that one, but only then did I realize that it said " I love pearl jam" after that.

For the record, I hate all 3 :(

[polishdog90]

I like Nirvana better, but they Smashing Pumpkins would be better for Rock Band. Just because you like a song or band doesnt mean it would be fun in rock band.

[Spankyboy0710]

First, pianoist? That's not a word, it's keyboardist.

Wow. You need to be really sure you know what you're talking about before you correct someone.

He didn't say "pianoist", he said "pianist". Yes, he spelled it correctly and yes, it is a word.

Amazing.

[Mex]

The 90's were my highschool years and I liked all 3 bands mentioned in the poll. Just my 2 cents but I feel that Nirvana is way above Smashing Pumpkins. When "Smells Like Teen Spirit" started getting radio and TV play, nothing like it had been heard in the mainstream. Nirvana changed what "mainstream" was, the types of bands that got signed to record deals, the clothes people wore, etc. Can't say the same for the Smashing Pumpkins.

Oh...and I liked the music better too.

[Fathoms]

The 90's were my highschool years and I liked all 3 bands mentioned in the poll. Just my 2 cents but I feel that Nirvana is way above Smashing Pumpkins. When "Smells Like Teen Spirit" started getting radio and TV play, nothing like it had been heard in the mainstream. Nirvana changed what "mainstream" was, the types of bands that got signed to record deals, the clothes people wore, etc. Can't say the same for the Smashing Pumpkins.

Oh...and I liked the music better too.

Cultural impact is really an interesting angle when it comes to Nirvana. They were the biggest band in a wave of early ninetees rock acts,but I don't think they are responsible for the fact that other great acts were emerging at the same time. Their true legacy is actually quite abysmal, with the reprecussions still reverberating. Without Nirvana, there would have been no Bush, no Nickelback, and the countless fourth generation streamlined grunge acts polluting the airwaves. It was the last great movement in 'mainstream' rock, but all in all I think rock in general has evovled immensly since the grunge era, though the Pumpkins were one of the bands that were already a few steps ahead of their peers (including Nirvana), in terms musicianship, songwriting, and imagination. I think they were at least interested in advancing the plot. This is how you get such a myriad of diverse influences surfacing in radically different ways on any given Pumpkins album, wheras Nirvana weren't doing anything that wasn't already being done as they were getting started (by bands like Mudhoney and the Pixies). Nirvana never wrote anything as skullcrushing as "XYU", poetic as "Thru the Eyes of Ruby" , or blissfully subdued "To Sheila". Nirvana were less commercial, their records less polished and more immediate, their energy undeniable, but ultimately, they just weren't all that damn interesting.

[Seattle_Sound]

Billy has definitely made music with much more depth and songwriting skill. The Pumpkins are a very interesting band to listen and Nirvana was definitely not anywhere near that, HOWEVER, you have to remember that Kurt would have probably advanced to that level had he not been murdered.....jk...jk. But seriously, he had a lot left in him. Just listen to Do Re Mi.

Kurt has said in interviews that he didnt want to keep making "grunge" music. He said the next album would be more like songs like "milk it" and more Butthole Surferish. He would have improved and made much more interesting stuff.

At the same time, we cant judge a band by what we think they would have made.

Nirvana has gotten a bad rep because of the legions of posers who dont know anything about music. But the Pumpkins are soooo good......But Nirvana is so kicka*s.....Billy...Kurt....Dave....Jimmy.....argh h.....CANT DECIDE...pluh.





P.S. Pearl Jam sucks

[Mex]

It's a tough call, I can only give my opinion based on which band's music I "connected" with more. In this case it was Nirvana. Maybe the Pumpkins were better musicians....I really couldn't say as I'm not a musician myself.

We also need to consider that Nirvana didn't exist for the 2nd half of the 90's, so who knows how they would have evolved?

[sickdaddy]

First, pianoist? That's not a word, it's keyboardist. Second, for a game like this with ALL the instruments, NIRVANA. If it was just GH I would go with Smashing Pumpkins. But come on Dave on DRUMS. How can you pick anything else?

Pianist is correct as well.

[sickdaddy]

Cultural impact is really an interesting angle when it comes to Nirvana. They were the biggest band in a wave of early ninetees rock acts,but I don't think they are responsible for the fact that other great acts were emerging at the same time. Their true legacy is actually quite abysmal, with the reprecussions still reverberating. Without Nirvana, there would have been no Bush, no Nickelback, and the countless fourth generation streamlined grunge acts polluting the airwaves. It was the last great movement in 'mainstream' rock, but all in all I think rock in general has evovled immensly since the grunge era, though the Pumpkins were one of the bands that were already a few steps ahead of their peers (including Nirvana), in terms musicianship, songwriting, and imagination. I think they were at least interested in advancing the plot. This is how you get such a myriad of diverse influences surfacing in radically different ways on any given Pumpkins album, wheras Nirvana weren't doing anything that wasn't already being done as they were getting started (by bands like Mudhoney and the Pixies). Nirvana never wrote anything as skullcrushing as "XYU", poetic as "Thru the Eyes of Ruby" , or blissfully subdued "To Sheila". Nirvana were less commercial, their records less polished and more immediate, their energy undeniable, but ultimately, they just weren't all that damn interesting.

I'm disturbed you attribute Nickelback's success to Nirvana. Although, that's my personal opinion that Nickelback is horridly generic. I like the Bush reference, though, as I've always called them fourth string grunge ten years too late.

I grew up in the Northwest and was in high school in the early nineties so I am very biased towards Nirvana (and Mudhoney). In utero had some very interesting things going on, in my opinion. It's hard to think back and not think of the countless bands that have tried to copy what they have done since, but they did have their unique style.

While Nirvana was influenced by Mudhoney, Nirvana released their first single in 1988, which was when Mudhoney formed (although Turner and Arm were both in Green River prior to). Each album from Nirvana showed the band growing musically in my opinion. Bleach was pretty straight forward with short catchy distorted songs showing good song writing skills. Nevermind showed a more polished brand of the same type, while In Utero went into a crazy direction, that I believe was definitely unique from the first twang of Serve the Servants on through the album.

It is hard to say where Nirvana would be now, if Kurt was still alive. Their impact in their short time with huge, from the explosion of Teen Spirit (probably the biggest radio hit in my lifetime), which blew the lid off the Seattle scene and exposed us all (hopefully) to some excellent bands of the area. For that I am thankful. Nirvana and Mudhoney remain at near the top of my list of all time favorite bands.

[Ishanji]

I prefer The Smashing Pumpkins because their compositions are generally more complex and layered than Nirvana's straightforward grunge jams. I think Corgan is also the better singer of the two, and being somewhat of a singer myself, I appreciate the greater range and dynamics he employs. That's not to say Nirvana isn't good or fun to listen to, they are, but their musical style just tends to be more narrow.

[Fathoms]

I'm disturbed you attribute Nickelback's success to Nirvana. Although, that's my personal opinion that Nickelback is horridly generic. I like the Bush reference, though, as I've always called them fourth string grunge ten years too late.

I grew up in the Northwest and was in high school in the early nineties so I am very biased towards Nirvana (and Mudhoney). In utero had some very interesting things going on, in my opinion. It's hard to think back and not think of the countless bands that have tried to copy what they have done since, but they did have their unique style.

While Nirvana was influenced by Mudhoney, Nirvana released their first single in 1988, which was when Mudhoney formed (although Turner and Arm were both in Green River prior to). Each album from Nirvana showed the band growing musically in my opinion. Bleach was pretty straight forward with short catchy distorted songs showing good song writing skills. Nevermind showed a more polished brand of the same type, while In Utero went into a crazy direction, that I believe was definitely unique from the first twang of Serve the Servants on through the album.

It is hard to say where Nirvana would be now, if Kurt was still alive. Their impact in their short time with huge, from the explosion of Teen Spirit (probably the biggest radio hit in my lifetime), which blew the lid off the Seattle scene and exposed us all (hopefully) to some excellent bands of the area. For that I am thankful. Nirvana and Mudhoney remain at near the top of my list of all time favorite bands.

I'm from Vancouver, so I've had Nickelback foisted on my ears since they first started up in the late 90's with some modest radio hits like "Fly" and "Leader of Man", which had a little more of a raw sound than the polished samey-sounding fare they release on a regular basis these days. I think their sound is derivative of the grunge sound that Nirvana and Pearl Jam in particular popularized. Singer Chad Kroeger imitated a lot of Cobains mannerisms. They pretty much carried to torch from Bush and Creed, belting out insufferable relationship-rock ballads along side sexed up anthemic rock cliches and it astonishes me that thier fans still aren't bored of them...

I think your comments about Nirvana are accurate. Cobain unquestionably had artist integrety not to go the route that say, Nickelback ended up going, which is to rehash their hit songs ad naseum, and its unfortunate that in over the years their sound has been sanitized and commercialized by the corperate rock machine into something it was never intended for, rather than have new acts come along and take that raw material and use for the good instead of evil. Perhaps there are a lot of underground bands I don't know about though, I never fully hitched my wagon to the grunge movement.

[ibender]

SP are anything but "straightforward".

[Hastyl3]

SP are anything but "straightforward".
I did this topic a while ago, I'm surprised that it's still one page 1.


Well... yeah, looking back at tracks like Zero and Heavy Metal Machine, it's safe to say that they weren't completely alternative.

[Cyan Winters]

Smells like Teen Spirit isn't even a good song...

:confused:

[theSurfbum1]

both of these bands are sick. they should add more songs to download for both of them.
but if i had to choose who i like more it would be nirvana

[Seattle_Sound]

Smells like Teen Spirit isn't even a good song...

:confused:

are you ******ed? SLTS isnt Nirvana's only song you dumb animal. SLTS is an overplayed radio friendly mediocre song. Nirvana has MUCH BETTER material than that. Let me list..

Sappy
Do Re Mi
Drain You
Old Age
Tourettes
Milk It
Serve The Servants
etc.

I could go on but I think you should understand that hearing one song doesnt mean you know how good a band is. If you know anything about Nirvana you would know they pretty much despised SLTS because of how many poser fans it attracted.

[battle_axe_of_doom]

^ too bad nirvana sucks

smashing pumpkins hands down... though they aren't as great as 90s ****head fanboys make em out to be

oh and pearl jam sucks too

[Seattle_Sound]

^ too bad nirvana sucks

smashing pumpkins hands down... though they aren't as great as 90s ****head fanboys make em out to be

oh and pearl jam sucks too


Why do you feel the need to bash every single alternative thread on the board? You've made your point, your a stupid metalhead who cant appreciate sincere passionate music.

So just shut up

[sickdaddy]

Right here.

I mean, I don't hate them, but really? If I hear "Heart Shaped Box" or some **** on the radio one more time something's going to get molotov cocktailed.

I'm one of those people who really feels strongly about overrated bands regardless of talent. I mean, I'm the first to admit a dude who can play bass, guitar, drums AND sing is pretty badass. But let's be honest - we've heard it all a million times, and let's not even get into the whole "omg Kurt Cobain shot his own head and now the band is legendary" can of worms.

So yeah. To stay on track, I would choose neither Smashing Pumpkins nor Nirvana. I'd go with "Do The Evolution" by Pearl Jam.


I have an idea that will save your life. Stop listening to the radio! The radio kills the songs by playing everyone every 2 hours. Ever listen to those crappy classic rock radio stations? You know the ones, with the setlist of the same 20 songs over and over? I guess if you were to only listen to the radio, you might think that there were only 20 songs recorded in the 70's. An exaggeration, but I'm sure you get my point.

If I hear another damn Nickelback song on the radio, I feel the same as you do. Or that stupid buckcherry song... Or any song on the radio. They always play it too much.



All you've heard on the radio since 94 is music that in some way was affected by Nirvana, probably 90% of it. So , sure it sounds generic to you... because nearly everyone copied them afterwards.

[sickdaddy]

There are milestones that have to be had in order for us to get to where we are today.

If you listen to The Who today, the drumming can be to some not so unique, since every metal drummer today sounds like ten drummers at one time, but (nearly) no one was playing like that at that time.

Nirvana brought music back around full circle to a simpler time. Stripped down songs weren't all the rage before they hit, and it was a welcome change admist the bands with Huge Hair, Makeup and caring more about what they looked like than the music itself.

Nirvana opened the doors for the mainstream alternative. Some might argue that's not a good thing, but it is what it is. I don't think many of the alternative bands, pumpkins included, would have enjoyed the success they had, if it wasn't for Nirvana blowing up when they did.

[battle_axe_of_doom]

Why do you feel the need to bash every single alternative thread on the board? You've made your point, your a stupid metalhead who cant appreciate sincere passionate music.

So just shut up

didn't i just ****ing say that i liked smashing pumpkins you ignorant ****?? also i hate metalheads you ****ing imbecile

btw lmao @ passionate music. yeah RAPE ME is real passionate :rolleyes:

[sickdaddy]

anger issues alert

[cobaltferret]

I picked Smashing Pumpkins because I was never really in to Nirvana, didn't really like Kur Cobain I guess.

Now, if you had added 'Dave Grohl' to the choices I would have picked him for sure, Mr Drum it, Strum it, Sing it multi talented look at me.

Foo Fighters are great and you see Dave in so many other bands videos too.

Rock on Dave.

WW

Mr. David Eric Grohl was in Nirvana. He was Mr. Drum it.

I know Nirvana is not the most technically advanced band. But there's a certain something to Kurt Cobain and his work that cant be denied. Remember, Nirvana was only around for about 5 or 6 years. Only 3 years as far as stardom is concerned.

All due respect to Billy Corgan but there's no way he could've made the same impact as Kurt in such a short amount of time.

Nirvana wins. No doubt.

[battle_axe_of_doom]

cream were around for like 2-3 years max and they've had MILLION times more impact than that piece of **** kurt cobain

just wanted to point that out

[sickdaddy]

more impact at the time? or more impact on your musical tastes personally?

If the former, post some examples instead of just pointing it out, please.

[battle_axe_of_doom]

more impact at the time? or more impact on your musical tastes personally?

If the former, post some examples instead of just pointing it out, please.

if you're referring to my post : do you seriously need examples of how ERIC CLAPTON and cream influenced music?? if so then you don't know **** about music

let me put it this way: a legendary artist/guitarist used to perform sunshine of your love almost religiously after cream broke up. guess who this guitarist was?? jimi hendrix

[sickdaddy]

I was just asking for your examples to back up your point. No need to get angry. I do not enjoy your conversation skills. Have a good weekend.

[battle_axe_of_doom]

lol yeah ok whatever

[nightshade]

[QUOTE=cobaltferret;163264]Mr. David Eric Grohl was in Nirvana. He was Mr. Drum it.

I know Nirvana is not the most technically advanced band. But there's a certain something to Kurt Cobain and his work that cant be denied. Remember, Nirvana was only around for about 5 or 6 years. Only 3 years as far as stardom is concerned.

All due respect to Billy Corgan but there's no way he could've made the same impact as Kurt in such a short amount of time.

tru wh at you say if cobain was still alive today and not sick nirvana would maybe be like top 10 on the charts even tho foo fighters would not be around but battle axe remember were talking about the 90's not the 60'or 70's. but to controdic my self you got to wonder what if cobain ran out of matereal or just lost the touch, so like kurt cobain, jim morrison
and a lot other who died young lets just hope if they were alive they were still as great as they were alive but i chosse nirvana cuz pumpkin did not have the personality or the charisma as nirvava + nirvana was a band that clicked with teens in a way pumpkin can not

[Fathoms]

So the argument boils down to Nirvana is better because they won the popularity contest? The Spice Girls are more beloved, and have infinitely more "charisma" and "personality" (not to mention hits) than both these bands. The Pumpkins have actually influenced good bands. The Deftones, Placebo, Our Lady Peace, Silversun Pickups (still haven' come across a Nirvana influenced band that was good, though of course Billy Corgan was influenced by the fact Nirvana albums were so ****ing good, he's a competitive fellow)... None are classic acts by any stretch of the imagination but it's not like the Pumpkins didn't have an impact. I think the Cure are probably the most influential band of the past twenty-five years but at the end of the day cultural impact isn't the best indicator of what is better or not. Don't get me wrong, it's all about how either band makes you feel when you listen to them; nobody could change anybody's mind through the flaccid power of words, it's just the standard for articulation should be raised a little higher before we adopt an authoritative stance than resorting to idea that the group that was more influential is a cut above.

[cobaltferret]

It is true none of us can say if Kurt Cobain would have remained relevant but his influence is undeniable. (slow verse, build, loud chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus)

His influence is all around, numerous smashing pumpkins songs included. Again, I'm not taking anything away from Corgan but it's NIRVANA, people!

Granted, Nirvana is elementary by a musician's standards but so was The Beatles early work. And who is gonna argue with the value of Lennon?

In the end this discussion is flawed because there is just not enough Nirvana material (tear in my eye) to put up against Smashing Pumpkins.

Even so, Kurt, Christ and Dave take it.

[Hastyl3]

It is true none of us can say if Kurt Cobain would have remained relevant but his influence is undeniable. (slow verse, build, loud chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus)

His influence is all around, numerous smashing pumpkins songs included. Again, I'm not taking anything away from Corgan but it's NIRVANA, people!

Granted, Nirvana is elementary by a musician's standards but so was The Beatles early work. And who is gonna argue with the value of Lennon?

In the end this discussion is flawed because there is just not enough Nirvana material (tear in my eye) to put up against Smashing Pumpkins.

Even so, Kurt, Christ and Dave take it.

Well let's put Siamese Dream and In Utero side by side. The Pumpkins and Nirvana both tried something different to be louder on these albums. Nirvana- Used more mics and overdubbed some tracks. Pumpkins- Overdubbing half the tracks, louder guitar tracks. The lyrics on both these albums were very poetic. But, both of these albums are overshadowed by another album(Nevermind and Melloncholly)

[Fully]

gotta represent Chicago so Smashing Pumpkins !!!

[tommysparxxx]

Nirvana just rules because besides their music kicking ass, Kurt, Dave and Krist would legit throw down and beat the crap out of The Smashing Pumpkins. The Pumpkins have no personality, they'er a bunch of pussies, Nirvana was the wild child of the 90's, wen billy corgans puts a 12 gauge to his head, then we'll see which band has the bigger cajones

[Hastyl3]

Nirvana just rules because besides their music kicking ass, Kurt, Dave and Krist would legit throw down and beat the crap out of The Smashing Pumpkins. The Pumpkins have no personality, they'er a bunch of pussies, Nirvana was the wild child of the 90's, wen billy corgans puts a 12 gauge to his head, then we'll see which band has the bigger cajones

You revived my topic just to make blind assumptions?!?

The Pumpkins have no personality? I guess that they never wrote Tonight, Tonight, Zero, Siva, Silver****, Hummer, Quiet, Geek USA, **** You(Ane Ode To No One), Muzzle, Soma, 197freaking9, Here Is No Why, ****, why am I listing, the whole Siamese Dream was full of character(2). I actually think the Pumpkins would have a better chance when it came to a fight mainly because Jimmy Chaimberlin's a BEAST. The Pumpkins were the one's not wearing those damn grunge outfits, they weren't always using an overdriven guitar, they could write ****ing ballads that were miles away from anything else at the time.

[CheezerRox]

Um, Kurt didn't have mental problems. Kurt and Courtney had an arguement he got pissed, locked himself in his room, Courtney called the cops to stop Kurt from ya'know commiting suicide,Kurt blew his head with a shotgun and that was it.

That is nowhere near what happened. I suggest you read up on your NIRVANA.

I personally like NIRVANA better, just because I like their sound/songs better. Simple as that.

[CM_Drunk]

Nirvana just rules because besides their music kicking ass, Kurt, Dave and Krist would legit throw down and beat the crap out of The Smashing Pumpkins. The Pumpkins have no personality, they'er a bunch of pussies, Nirvana was the wild child of the 90's, wen billy corgans puts a 12 gauge to his head, then we'll see which band has the bigger cajones

EL EM AY OH

Wow. Im going to say I prefer the Pumpkins to Nirvana, but you wont see me putting down Nirvana. They are a legendary group who is responisble for brining a new genre to the forefront.

But I will put down Mr Sparxxxxxxxxxx ridiculous post by saying that SP had Personality in SPADES, and were definitley not a bunch of pussies. Sure they were alot more melodic then alot of other bands of that era, and sure Corgans voice is quite high at points, but in my honest opinion, Siamese Dream as an album is better then any Nirvana album. Nevermind comes close, as does Incesticide, but doesnt come close musically.

I will reiterate my point that I am not trashing Nirvana, and just speaking on personal preference

[frizzy_bj]

Wow! This thread is old! I guess I will vote anyway.:)

This is a hard decision for me (as usual). While Nirvana definitely was once one of my most listened to bands (and I had a huge crush on Kurt), I would have to pick Smashing Pumpkins.

As I mentioned in another thread, Billy Corgan has one of those distinctive voices that you either love or hate.

Don't get me wrong, I love Pearl Jam and Nirvana, but Smashing Pumpkins are my favorite out of the group.;)

[Hastyl3]

Yeah... don't get me wrong I LOVE Nirvana, but posts like tommysparxxx get me pissed.

[flop404]

Like both bands but are not really compairable. The Smashing Pumpkins are much more timeless and talented. I play drums, guitar, harmonica, and even a little jaw-harp. I have a good understanding of song structure, and have been In a few bands. Even If you do not like the Pumpkins music most experts will tell you they are much more advanced in their understanding of music.

Which means pretty much... nothing.

Sure, Nirvana's songs structures are basic. Uber-basic, even, just like most of the Beatles.

But... If you go by song structure, then free jazz is where all the talent is.

Fact is, musical complexity, or musicians virtuosity in itself, has close to no interest, and very few to do with talent (it is work).

As to "which one is the best", both are the bands of my college years, so it'd be a draw

[HardRocker12]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before in this thread, but i really dont wanna go through 11 pages.

To the OP, it is spelled "Nevermind" not "Never Mind"

[Fathoms]

Nirvana just rules because besides their music kicking ass, Kurt, Dave and Krist would legit throw down and beat the crap out of The Smashing Pumpkins. The Pumpkins have no personality, they'er a bunch of pussies, Nirvana was the wild child of the 90's, wen billy corgans puts a 12 gauge to his head, then we'll see which band has the bigger cajones
:confused::confused::confused::confused:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzBVvD1vUvM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_evk2R4wGU

[Hastyl3]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before in this thread, but i really dont wanna go through 11 pages.

To the OP, it is spelled "Nevermind" not "Never Mind"

You're the FIRST person to have mentioned that in the entire year my thread has been up!

Which means pretty much... nothing.

Sure, Nirvana's songs structures are basic. Uber-basic, even, just like most of the Beatles.

But... If you go by song structure, then free jazz is where all the talent is.

Fact is, musical complexity, or musicians virtuosity in itself, has close to no interest, and very few to do with talent (it is work).

As to "which one is the best", both are the bands of my college years, so it'd be a draw
I don't know what you're getting at there. You seem to be contradicting yourself.

[Chief Stubbs]

...null vote? Please?

[WonderboyYYZ]

First, pianoist? That's not a word, it's keyboardist. Second, for a game like this with ALL the instruments, NIRVANA. If it was just GH I would go with Smashing Pumpkins. But come on Dave on DRUMS. How can you pick anything else?

I love Dave Grohl too, but uh...

Jimmy Chamberlain is the sh*t. That's kinda all there is to it.

[flop404]

Well let's put Siamese Dream and In Utero side by side. The Pumpkins and Nirvana both tried something different to be louder on these albums. Nirvana- Used more mics and overdubbed some tracks. Pumpkins- Overdubbing half the tracks, louder guitar tracks.


Not coincidentally, both Siamese Dreams and Nevermind were produced by Butch Vig, which has a lot to do with the (quite unheard of back then) hugely overdriven sounds and overdubbed guitars.

That's a point that is often neglected : both bands' main albums have remarkable production work, which was something sorely lacking from 80's rock bands (Metallica's early albums were awful in that aspect, for instance)

[defenestrater]

I actually voted for Pearl Jam, but if I was just limited to the two bands in question, I would vote for Smashing Pumpkins. They're not by any means a band I'm a big fan of, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't impressed by the ambition and variety in their material.

That said I think everyone who is saying the only reason people liked Cobain is because he killed himself are really mistaken. As far as influencing popular culture goes, its really hard to overstate how much of an impact Nevermind had. Even discounting the influence Nirvana had on later, lesser bands, there's still the fact that Smells Like Teen Spirit opened the door for an awful lot of the alternative/grunge/college rock/whatever music that was all over the radio and mtv in the 90s. Its not like everything changed overnight, its more like other songs and bands were given a chance in the spotlight because of Nirvana's success, and the success of those bands in turn lead to other bands being given a shot, until eventually this music that was new to alot of people at the time was just everywhere. It was a big deal when he killed himself, but that doesn't mean Nirvana wasn't a big deal before hand.

[Fathoms]

Not coincidentally, both Siamese Dreams and Nevermind were produced by Butch Vig, which has a lot to do with the (quite unheard of back then) hugely overdriven sounds and overdubbed guitars.

That's a point that is often neglected : both bands' main albums have remarkable production work, which was something sorely lacking from 80's rock bands (Metallica's early albums were awful in that aspect, for instance)

Gish and the Lull Ep were produced by Butch too. He was like the Timbaland of 90's alternative.

[Fathoms]

I actually voted for Pearl Jam, but if I was just limited to the two bands in question, I would vote for Smashing Pumpkins. They're not by any means a band I'm a big fan of, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't impressed by the ambition and variety in their material.

That said I think everyone who is saying the only reason people liked Cobain is because he killed himself are really mistaken. As far as influencing popular culture goes, its really hard to overstate how much of an impact Nevermind had. Even discounting the influence Nirvana had on later, lesser bands, there's still the fact that Smells Like Teen Spirit opened the door for an awful lot of the alternative/grunge/college rock/whatever music that was all over the radio and mtv in the 90s. Its not like everything changed overnight, its more like other songs and bands were given a chance in the spotlight because of Nirvana's success, and the success of those bands in turn lead to other bands being given a shot, until eventually this music that was new to alot of people at the time was just everywhere. It was a big deal when he killed himself, but that doesn't mean Nirvana wasn't a big deal before hand.

Some really good points made here, though its pretty much impossible for a musician not to be immortalized when he dies at the height of his popularity. Smells Like Teen Spirit was the largest hammer that brought alternaitve rock to the mainstream back in 1991.

[defenestrater]

Some really good points made here, though its pretty much impossible for a musician not to be immortalized when he dies at the height of his popularity.

I agree Cobain's death plays a part in the continued appeal of the band, I don't think there's any denying that. But I also think the people earlier in the thread who were saying that the only reason Nirvana was relevant was because their singer shot himself are missing the bigger picture.

[Fathoms]

I agree Cobain's death plays a part in the continued appeal of the band, I don't think there's any denying that. But I also think the people earlier in the thread who were saying that the only reason Nirvana was relevant was because their singer shot himself are missing the bigger picture.

I think anybody who was alive and had a radio in 1991 recognizes the significance of Smells Like Teen Spirit and Nevermind.

[WonderboyYYZ]

To me, they're both pretty damn generic. I mean, they sound too much like themselves. They started movements and influenced a lot of people, sure, but if you get past that, they're songs sound alike. That is, this Nirvana song sounds like that Nirvana song, and this Pumpkins song sounds like that Pumpkins song. Grunge really wasn't a big thing for me.

Generic? Smashing Pumpkins evolved as band and changed their sound/image more than anyone. Listen to Gish (1st Album) to Siamese Dream (2nd) to Adore (4th) to Machina II (6th, last before Zeitgiest). They sound so different in all of them. From metal, to punk, to goth, electronica, grunge, and straight forward alternative.

Vote Smashing Pumpkins.

[Lithium_666]

nirvana all day, mostly bc i cant stand the way the pumkins singer sounds, if you can call him a singer

[Lithium_666]

and dont get me wrong kurt cobain was definately not a good singer either but at least his is standable

[tommysparxxx]

Yeah... don't get me wrong I LOVE Nirvana, but posts like tommysparxxx get me pissed.


i was just ****ing around please dont crucify me, i like nirvana just because their songs are more appealing to me, i like smashing pumpkins too, but if i had to decide between the two i would have to go wit nirvana, this arguement is kind of unfair anyways since nirvana only had like four years to develop as a mainstream band, smahsing pumpkins been in the game way longer and can reinvent themselves, change members, and do w/e they want, if nirvana was still around today i think this would be a one sided arguement, really now how many bands cite smashing pumpkins as an inspiration versus nirvana?

[CM_Drunk]

^^^Plenty.

[TheChurchofManLove]

Smashing pumpkins have terrible lyrics, something i can't get past when i listen to them. Nirvana has some songs with really great lyrics, reason i prefer them.

[Hastyl3]

Smashing pumpkins have terrible lyrics, something i can't get past when i listen to them. Nirvana has some songs with really great lyrics, reason i prefer them.

LOLWUT? Really now. You actually said Nirvana had great lyrics?!? Can you tell me what Cobain's even talking about in Teen Spirit? Not the deodorant.

i was just ****ing around please dont crucify me, i like nirvana just because their songs are more appealing to me, i like smashing pumpkins too, but if i had to decide between the two i would have to go wit nirvana, this arguement is kind of unfair anyways since nirvana only had like four years to develop as a mainstream band, smahsing pumpkins been in the game way longer and can reinvent themselves, change members, and do w/e they want, if nirvana was still around today i think this would be a one sided arguement, really now how many bands cite smashing pumpkins as an inspiration versus nirvana?
How many respectable bands cite Nirvana as an influence? Off the top of my head I can pull out Silversun Pickups as a band the Pumpkins have inspired.

[campinmonkey]

where's my sonic youth option?

[defenestrater]

where's my sonic youth option?

Actually I'd like to change my vote to Sonic Youth as well.

[campinmonkey]

Actually I'd like to change my vote to Sonic Youth as well.

if I cant get that I would rather have a Pixies or Dinosaur Jr vote before any of the 3 bands in the poll



NOTHING against any of those 3 bands

[defenestrater]

if I cant get that I would rather have a Pixies or Dinosaur Jr vote before any of the 3 bands in the poll


Now see there's a discussion that needs to be had: Sonic Youth or Pixies? Or should we flip them both and vote Dinosaur Jr? Or we could flip Dinosaur Jr as well and vote for Pavement.

[campinmonkey]

im up for a 4-way showdown

honestly those 3 bands shaped (I wouldnt put pavement in there, even though they were good) pretty much anything relevant in 90s music


I would vote sonic youth just because sister and daydream nation are two of my top 20 favorite records ever, but its all close 1-4

[defenestrater]

Yeah there's a ridiculous amount of good music that owes a debt to those three bands. I'm not sure you'd be wrong voting for any of them. I'd have to go with Sonic Youth as well. Pixies are one of my favorite bands, but its really hard to argue with Daydream Nation.

I agree that Pavement doesn't belong with the other three bands. I think they had more influence than they're generally given credit for (I would imagine pretty much any lo fi band with noisy guitars probably spent some time listening to Slanted & Enchanted and Crooked Rain), but there's a difference between influencing some indie rock bands and influencing, you know, a whole decade of alternative music.

[campinmonkey]

I think you would have to look at what Thurston Moore and Lee Randaldo (who never gets the credit he deserves) did to really get sonic youth. I think they were the one of the first bands that really stretched the boundaries of music since Pink Floyd on DSOTM

what they did with guitar tunings, ambient noise, and the overwhelming "wall of noise" was unheard of at the time. Plus I love the interview where some reporter tried to tell them they were punk and they laughed and told him punk was dead, and all they did was play their instruments

Teenage Riot is one of the songs that will help define music, and is easily in my top 10 songs of all time

[defenestrater]

I definitely agree with you, though I think they're equally notable for what they've done beyond their music. The list of bands, artists, directors, etc that they discovered, and/or gave exposure to is pretty impressive. They've done an awful lot to make avant-garde art and culture availabe and accessible to people who would never be exposed to it otherwise, and that's pretty commendable.

[campinmonkey]

true, and I always love hearing people talk about how Nirvana/ Pearl Jam/ etc. were revolutionary, and fail to notice the 10 years leading up to it. Grunge had its base in punk, as did these bands, but they all expanded on it, creating something different. Listen to Sonic Youth- Catholic Block, and you can see the punk as well as the grunge in it.

I laugh at the millions who love nirvana but have no idea who Sonic Youth or the Pixies are

[defenestrater]

Well I think the 90s alternative explosion was revolutionary, if only because for a couple of years there it looked like all these fringe bands were eventually going to take over the mainstream. But if you realize that for several years before that explosion there was a whole bunch of really amazing, adventurous bands building off punk and the DIY ethic to create some truly challenging and exciting music then that explosion starts to make a more sense. Nirvana and the other Seattle bands stop looking like a music scene that came out of nowhere and fluked into stardom and more like one of many many bands that reaped the rewards of the hard work of the underground musicians of the 80s, and even the late 70s.

[goden]

Nirvana is the best. They were something different than other rock bands, they were rocking as hell, kurt cobain was very active and he had great voice + he was great song writer. I choose nirvana.

[campinmonkey]

Well I think the 90s alternative explosion was revolutionary, if only because for a couple of years there it looked like all these fringe bands were eventually going to take over the mainstream. But if you realize that for several years before that explosion there was a whole bunch of really amazing, adventurous bands building off punk and the DIY ethic to create some truly challenging and exciting music then that explosion starts to make a more sense. Nirvana and the other Seattle bands stop looking like a music scene that came out of nowhere and fluked into stardom and more like one of many many bands that reaped the rewards of the hard work of the underground musicians of the 80s, and even the late 70s.

I really could not put it any better. Everyday I hope that one more person will look at the bands that influenced the "grunge" movement and realize that there were amazing bands behind it


and if you get scared away by me mentioning sonic youth, dont worry, kool thing sucked


IMO

[defenestrater]

Don't get me started on Kool Thing. I can't understand the thinking that went into picking that song for the game at all. :p

[campinmonkey]

Don't get me started on Kool Thing. I can't understand the thinking that went into picking that song for the game at all. :p

its ok, they made up for it with teenage riot


but I wish wish wish that daydream nation or sister were dlc albums


but i got doolittle, so I cant complain too much

[Hastyl3]

OK guys, back to the original discussion, if you want to wet your pants over Sonic Youth, wet them in a private message.

[m00p]

Pumpkins > Nirvana

Nirvana songs sound too much alike. Kurt Cobain is a d***

[Edthefreak]

I'm going to say since I really like Alternative, that I'd put Pearl Jam first, Nirvana (though I don't listen to them much cause I've listened TOO many times :) ), Stone Temple Pilots, and Smashing Pumpkins. (Yeah, I threw Stone Temple Pilots in there, deal)

[SteveoKnievo]

To me, they're both pretty damn generic. I mean, they sound too much like themselves.

That makes a lot of sense. I voted Pearl Jam, they are better than either one. But if I had to pick one or the other I would go Pumpkins.

[rubinalcohol]

I have to go with Nirvana

[iananderson]

Nirvana. The Smashing Pumpkins gives me a headache.

[CheezerRox]

Kurt Cobain is a d***

Elaborate.

[Hastyl3]

Nirvana. The Smashing Pumpkins gives me a headache.

Turn "Rape Me" all the way up while using headphones that you stick in your ears. THAT'S what you call a headache.

[Rockbandfan23467]

Elaborate.Mabye he's just a Hair Metal fan. Nirvana were the ones who finnally killed Hair (Metallica helped, though).

[Hastyl3]

Mabye he's just a Hair Metal fan. Nirvana were the ones who finnally killed Hair (Metallica helped, though).

Don't forget Guns N' Roses, "Welcome To The Jungle" helped kill off the cliche.

[Rockbandfan23467]

Don't forget Guns N' Roses, "Welcome To The Jungle" helped kill off the cliche.

Except GNR were Pop Metal.

[Hastyl3]

Except GNR were Pop Metal.

Pop, not glam ;)

[iananderson]

Turn "Rape Me" all the way up while using headphones that you stick in your ears. THAT'S what you call a headache.

lol. I'll admit, I'm not a Rape Me fan.