BWT Fan Cap - Musicians view.

[Hanika]

I just wanted to express my severe annoyance at the fan cap in BWT.

Being a musician, I play Guitar, Sing and dabble with the drums in real life. I've recorded countless CD's. Which I'll provide a link to at the bottom of my post to prove it.

My point is I can play in real life but this decision to punish those that can't play higher then the lower difficulties in BWT mode is frustrating.
This was the game to play for the Thanksgiving Holiday. What an amazing time with Family and Friends....
And it was all about BWT, Creating an character and Band. That really got everyone going.
Well, until the message came up about not gaining any more fans unless you up the difficulty, Suddenly the older folks were in the way, and the younger ones....WTF?

It's a bad move, reguardless of what the elitists say.
Hell, I myself can't play Expert on any of these games. Guitar Hero 1,2 or 3. And I can't do it in Rockband. I can jam in real life. But, something about the colored buttons coming that fast tweaks my brain. lol

Anyway's, this is a HUGE mistake, and sadly will kill the game over time. My wife and kids are already loosing interest, where before we hit the Fan Cap it was all they could talk about.

Confusing...

Anyway, You can hear my work herehttp://www.cafepress.com/hanika/3286837 (http://www.cafepress.com/hanika)
or here http://www.myspace.com/hanikashawn

[Thrashdragon]

While I'm not happy about the fan cap either (out of all my friends that play, I'm the only one that can consistently play above Medium), my fiance and I were playing the other day, hit the Medium cap, and decided to keep playing anyway. I was pleasantly surprised to find that you can still unlock new venues and songs, and earn money. There is still some stuff locked away, but at least it didn't just end at the cap.

[NattyLight]

Wahh I can't beat the game on medium in less than a week?

What did you expect If you could beat this game in less than a week, I would've just rented it. Why don't you go play other rhythm games like mario Party, karaoke Revolution, DDR, Drummani,...and oh wait. Those follow the same model of making you play for a while before you unlock stuff

EDIT: I meant party games.

[surgesnugs]

I agree. For me, one of the things I was really looking forward to was playing in a band with my friends through BWT, and just experience the simulation of rising from a bar band to huge arenas. I think I'll have the resolve to get up to Hard on Guitar and Vocals, and Medium on Drums, but I want to be able to play with my wife who's not as good at video games, and friends that don't own the game and just have fun. So why does HMX care if some of the band members are playing on Easy? I'd expect that most people play at the highest level they can anyway, because it gets boring otherwise, so why force people out?

[Chris_Gonzalez]

While I'm not happy about the fan cap either (out of all my friends that play, I'm the only one that can consistently play above Medium), my fiance and I were playing the other day, hit the Medium cap, and decided to keep playing anyway. I was pleasantly surprised to find that you can still unlock new venues and songs, and earn money. There is still some stuff locked away, but at least it didn't just end at the cap.

Yeah. And hey, gotta take the plunge sometime, right? If you want to, you could just go into Quickplay and use the characters you created. Same thing, really, just no money involved and no fan caps.

[SoulScreme]

What did you expect If you could beat this game in less than a week, I would've just rented it. Why don't you go play other rhythm games like mario Party, karaoke Revolution, DDR, Drummani,...and oh wait. Those follow the same model of making you play for a while before you unlock stuff.

Mario Party is a rhythm game now?

[seafisch]

some stuff he really didn't say

Did you even read his post? He wasn't saying he wanted to beat it in a week. He was just expressing his frustration over the "You earned 0 fans" message the game gives you when you reach the fan cap.


If you want to, you could just go into Quickplay and use the characters you created. Same thing, really, just no money involved and no fan caps.

Actually, no. In Quickplay you don't get to use created characters. So not only are your band members random generic characters, your character is, as well. Unless I'm missing an option for Quickplay mode?

[Bakkster]

Actually, no. In Quickplay you don't get to use created characters. So not only are your band members random generic characters, your character is, as well. Unless I'm missing an option for Quickplay mode?

You should be able to choose any of your characters. Just select where it says "Default" and pick your character.

[NattyLight]

Mario Party is a rhythm game now?

sorry, i meant party

[Chris_Gonzalez]

Actually, no. In Quickplay you don't get to use created characters. So not only are your band members random generic characters, your character is, as well. Unless I'm missing an option for Quickplay mode?

Yeah, you are. You can hit "Select Rocker" and choose either "Default", which maps you to a random character, or one of the characters you have created for that instrument.

Trust me, I've been doing this all weekend because of the fan cap.

[tf5_bassist]

The fan cap=lame because it forces you to move to higher difficulty levels
The fan cap=AWESOME because it forces you to move to higher difficulty levels!!!

Seriously... The fan cap has really forced me and my family/friends to push ourselves. It's made my wife sing on medium, it's made me sing on hard, I've been playing guitar/bass on expert, and I've been playing drums mostly on hard, a handful on expert, and a handful on medium (eff you, GGaHT!!), and my bro-in-law work up to being able to do decently on medium drums. I was playing with our friend the other night though, and just said "screw the fan cap" and kept playing earning cash until my bro-in-law was back in town to play on expert... although because of the fan cap, she was playing on medium vocals instead of wussing out and playing on easy, like she always does on singstar.

Fan cap=annoyingly double-edged sword of greatness in my book.

[NattyLight]

Did you even read his post? He wasn't saying he wanted to beat it in a week. He was just expressing his frustration over the "You earned 0 fans" message the game gives you when you reach the fan cap.



Actually, no. In Quickplay you don't get to use created characters. So not only are your band members random generic characters, your character is, as well. Unless I'm missing an option for Quickplay mode?

I read his post. His whole complaint was that he couldn't accomplish everything in teh game in a week because he couldn't play on medium. He was frustrated that he couldn't play on medium. He hasn't even had the game a week. You are supposed to practice and get used to it and you should be able to move to medium. Play the game a while and get used to it before you complain it's too hard


And have you played quickplay, you do ge tot use your characters. You just got othe big "Select Rocker" part before you press continue.

[Bakkster]

Fan cap=annoyingly double-edged sword of greatness in my book.

Agreed. Great if you play it like a rhythm game, bad if you play it like a party game.

[Quastor]

Wait, what does you being a musician have to do with anything, other than shamelessly plugging yourself?

As many have pointed out previously, the fan cap in no way stops you from being able to continue playing the game. There is still plenty to unlock and experience, and the World Tour can be "completed" with everyone playing on medium. The game, however, is trying to push people to practice and get better. There's nothing better then getting a band together regularly and seeing people progress from starting on Easy to eventually playing Hard/Expert.



Actually, no. In Quickplay you don't get to use created characters. So not only are your band members random generic characters, your character is, as well. Unless I'm missing an option for Quickplay mode?

Actually, yes, I do believe you are missing something. After you hit the confirm button to "join" the band, you'll have a small menu under your current rocker. One of the options is "Select Rocker." Picking this lets you select from the custom characters already created.

[Grey_Street]

I said this in the other thread too...it is discouraging and takes a little away from the experience when you no longer continue gaining fans. This happens even before you complete all of the content that the game ships w/. The BWT mode is meant to be a continuous experience that can be built on w/ DLC. If people are hitting the cap even before they get to all the content on the disk, why would they consistently get the DLC. The longevity of this game relies on EVERYONE, not just the hardcore players, continuing to play and d/l songs.

[seafisch]

D'oh - I wasn't thinking of online Quickplay. Yeah, I knew that... :o But for solo Quickplay (which you wouldn't want to do, but I do believe the option is there) you get a full random band.

[NattyLight]

I said this in the other thread too...it is discouraging and takes a little away from the experience when you no longer continue gaining fans. This happens even before you complete all of the content that the game ships w/. The BWT mode is meant to be a continuous experience that can be built on w/ DLC. If people are hitting the cap even before they get to all the content on the disk, why would they consistently get the DLC. The longevity of this game relies on EVERYONE, not just the hardcore players, continuing to play and d/l songs.


So you just care that a number isn't constantly changing? Really? Your major complaint with this game is that you can do everything else, but after a while, ONE number doesn't get higher?

[Eman311]

I've got admit, the game telling me I need to move on from hard drums to expert after playing for maybe 10 hours is kinda discouraging

[Malev0lent]

I wish people would just realize that not everyone is able to play on medium. There's a LOT of people out there that still fail on easy. By the time they're able to pull 70-80%, they're forced to go to medium, and fail all over again.

Medium is just way too fast for some people, just because we're able to get better and faster doesn't mean everyone can. How about grandpa with artheritus? How about the 7 year olds who can barely keep up on easy?

Come on people, they need to just remove the damn fan cap. Make it so you can get more fans and more money on higher difficulties sure, and make it so it takes forever to beat the game on easy, everyone who plays easy will not mind at all.

Anyway, the fan caps never gonna be removed so it's kind of pointless for me to keep asking, but really I wish people were more considerate of the less coordinated.

[NattyLight]

Furthermore, your whole argument is that on easy, it's so hard that you fail the song THREE times and nobody can bring you back? Obviously, the real problem is you. If with practice, you still fail a song three times on medium, then this game isn't meant for you and shouldn't change for you.

[NattyLight]

Medium is just way too fast for some people, just because we're able to get better and faster doesn't mean everyone can. How about grandpa with artheritus? How about the 7 year olds who can barely keep up on easy?


This game wasn't made for 7 or 70 years olds. IF they can play, fine, but it's not who it's made for. Where did you even hear that. This games intended audience is those people who played Guitar Hero and Karaoke Revolution. IF you're 7 and can't play this, get a game aimed at your age group.

[Oblong]

As many have pointed out previously, the fan cap in no way stops you from being able to continue playing the game. There is still plenty to unlock and experience, and the World Tour can be "completed" with everyone playing on medium. The game, however, is trying to push people to practice and get better. There's nothing better then getting a band together regularly and seeing people progress from starting on Easy to eventually playing Hard/Expert.



In theory, you are right. Everyone practice, practice, practice and get better.

In reality, this is a party game. Drinking, having a good time with gamer and non-gamer friends. The reality is VERY FEW will ever progress past MEDIUM (also known as normal or average mode). Capping the fan growth at 260,000 on medium is a real buzzkill just a couple hours into BWT when there is still a ton of stuff to do.

If HMX wants to keep your MEDIUM (average/normal) people playing this game while they start racking up all this DLC to make money, then they will recognize that playing the game on medium shouldn't be capped so quickly. They are alienating the lions share of players out there.

(Yes, I know you can still play through BWT on medium. It is a psychological thing to see "0 fans gained" after playing a song...it's just a number, so why would it bother those against changing it to throw everyone else a bone?)

[Chris_Gonzalez]

If you're playing it at a party, why go through career mode? Use Quickplay. Simple enough.

[NattyLight]

In theory, you are right. Everyone practice, practice, practice and get better.



(Yes, I know you can still play through BWT on medium. It is a psychological thing to see "0 fans gained" after playing a song...it's just a number, so why would it bother those against changing it to throw everyone else a bone?)

Yeah, not getting more for not doing more is a horrible idea. I think everybody that plays sports should be the MVP and there should be no winners. Everybody is a winner. It's just a game right?


How about schools? Let's get rid of grades and valedictorians because it's discouraging for dumb kids to know that they're not doing as well as smarter ones.

Now that we're on it. BUrger flippers should get just as much money as doctors. Why punish burger flippers because they can't do teh work doctors do. They're still people

[NattyLight]

If you're playing it at a party, why go through career mode? Use Quickplay. Simple enough.


Stop using common sense!

You mean to tell me that you've never been hanging out partying with a few friends and then after 10 hours of campaign gameplay, you've realized that none of you have gotten any better at the game?

[Grey_Street]

So you just care that a number isn't constantly changing? Really? Your major complaint with this game is that you can do everything else, but after a while, ONE number doesn't get higher?

In short...yes that is a big deal. This one little number you are talking about is part of the backbone to BWT mode. This and your amount of stars. If it is such a small deal, then what does it hurt you if everyone gets that number to continue increasing?

When you don't continue to gain fans it feels as if you've lost your steam and are 'stuck'. It's the same frustration I find when I can't find one last item or objective on other games...the difference? In those games I can complete that objective and move on. Here, there is nothing I can do to continue on that setting and keep progressing. Again, it's like only getting to play the first 4 levels on Halo if you are on easy, 5 levels on Normal and so on...

[Grey_Street]

This game wasn't made for 7 or 70 years olds. IF they can play, fine, but it's not who it's made for. Where did you even hear that. This games intended audience is those people who played Guitar Hero and Karaoke Revolution. IF you're 7 and can't play this, get a game aimed at your age group.

This game was marketed as a party game that will bring multiple people to enjoying music further and get the experience of playing in a band. This is realized throug the BWT mode that you arbitrarily get halted on...

The game wasn't made for just you, it was constantly said that they want to reach as many people as possible and make the game accessible to all. You need to get off your high horse and realize there are other people in the world. I place you no older than 16-17 years old and even less mature.

[Grey_Street]

Stop using common sense!

You mean to tell me that you've never been hanging out partying with a few friends and then after 10 hours of campaign gameplay, you've realized that none of you have gotten any better at the game?

Actually I get worse after 10 hours of game play at a party...might be the beverages though ;)

[seafisch]

Yeah, not getting more for not doing more is a horrible idea. It's just a game right?

Then let them earn more fans, at a higher rate.

And yes, it is just a game, so your real world examples really don't apply.

[NattyLight]

In short...yes that is a big deal. This one little number you are talking about is part of the backbone to BWT mode. This and your amount of stars. If it is such a small deal, then what does it hurt you if everyone gets that number to continue increasing?

When you don't continue to gain fans it feels as if you've lost your steam and are 'stuck'. It's the same frustration I find when I can't find one last item or objective on other games...the difference? In those games I can complete that objective and move on. Here, there is nothing I can do to continue on that setting and keep progressing. Again, it's like only getting to play the first 4 levels on Halo if you are on easy, 5 levels on Normal and so on...

Because you are stuck. The point is to get better and gain more fans. You gain more fans by getting better, just like in real life. this game aims for realism. Maybe your frustration will lead you to get better. If a number bothers you that much, play quickplay. You still get to play all of the songs.

In Halo, you can beat the game on easy but if you go out of your way and do harder things, you get better armor.

Personally, i don't care if they add the number. I just think it's stupid to complain that after less than a week, the difficulty level is too hard and now you're forced to practice.

[NattyLight]

Then let them earn more fans, at a higher rate.

And yes, it is just a game, so your real world examples really don't apply.

Sports are just games.

[NattyLight]

This game was marketed as a party game that will bring multiple people to enjoying music further and get the experience of playing in a band. This is realized throug the BWT mode that you arbitrarily get halted on...

The game wasn't made for just you, it was constantly said that they want to reach as many people as possible and make the game accessible to all. You need to get off your high horse and realize there are other people in the world. I place you no older than 16-17 years old and even less mature.

This game was marketed like an expanded guitar hero. The Wii was marketed as the family friendly 7-70 system. If I missed those wii-like marketing campaigns, let me know.


Most games want to reach as many people as possible. This is called good business.

I'm 23.

Just practice. If you still can't play medium after a month or 2 of having this game, then complain. Of course that won't happen because you feel you should have it your way now.

[masterx1918]

BWT isn't meant for parties. Quickplay is for parties.

[Bluvox]

In Halo, you can beat the game on easy but if you go out of your way and do harder things, you get better armor.


There's the point - in Halo 3 you don't get to the last level of the game and it tells you "sorry, to play this level you HAVE to play on Legendary..." You CAN complete the game on "Normal". I can see Easy not letting you unlock certain things, and I can see "special" things being unlocked, even achievements.

But don't keep gameplay options locked out (arenas, etc) just because folks can't play on expert.

I'd love to see an "official" response on this, but not sure if there will be an official response or not. I've already advocated that once you hit the cap maybe your rewards be lower, but the game rewards longer streaks of notes, which means until you are comfortable with a level you are going to slip back one from where you have problems to get a better score/more stars. So it's a double-edged sword in BWT - you unlock parts with stars, which implies lower difficulty; and you unlock parts with fans, which implies harder difficulties. Once I get 5 stars on everything that we've unlocked, I'll look at going up to the next level and just working the system.

[Grey_Street]

Because you are stuck. The point is to get better and gain more fans. You gain more fans by getting better, just like in real life. this game aims for realism. Maybe your frustration will lead you to get better. If a number bothers you that much, play quickplay. You still get to play all of the songs.

In Halo, you can beat the game on easy but if you go out of your way and do harder things, you get better armor.

Personally, i don't care if they add the number. I just think it's stupid to complain that after less than a week, the difficulty level is too hard and now you're forced to practice.

It is a stupid complaint after a week...the stupid part being that it took less than a week for all of these people to reach the cap.

Playing quickplay is not the answer, this game was touted as being a great party game for the feeling of being in a real band...this is BWT mode. And hitting a stopping point this quickly is going to turn alot of people off of this game. It is in your best interest to keep as many people as possible playing. If you want DLC to continue you want everyone from 7-70 as you said to be interested.

As you said in Halo you can complete the game on easy, you can also play the Meta game and continue scoring higher and higher. Why not be able to continue getting more and more fans?

[seafisch]

Sports are just games.

And for professional athletes (and pseudo-professional athletes in major college sports), sports are also a profession, so still not a good analogy.

[NattyLight]

It is a stupid complaint after a week...the stupid part being that it took less than a week for all of these people to reach the cap.

Playing quickplay is not the answer, this game was touted as being a great party game for the feeling of being in a real band...this is BWT mode. And hitting a stopping point this quickly is going to turn alot of people off of this game. It is in your best interest to keep as many people as possible playing. If you want DLC to continue you want everyone from 7-70 as you said to be interested.

As you said in Halo you can complete the game on easy, you can also play the Meta game and continue scoring higher and higher. Why not be able to continue getting more and more fans?

Sigh. It's called practice. You will get better. You did buy this game, right? If you want it all, you have to get better. The longevity of Halo was not base don it's single player. Single play for Halo wasn't spectacular. It's multi player is why people play it for years. In that time, people get better. But they had to practice on Multiplayer.


In this game, you need to practice. What it boils down to is that you're just too lazy to practice. All rhythm games require practice. If you didn't know that before, you know it now. Don't buy another one. If you feel like you can't or don't want to practice, I'll buy your guitar.

[NattyLight]

And for professional athletes (and pseudo-professional athletes in major college sports), sports are also a profession, so still not a good analogy.

I wasn't talking about professional athletes. Let's exclude them. Do you think all other athletes should get rid of scores and winners and make everybody MVP because it's jsut a game?

[Bakkster]

There's the point - in Halo 3 you don't get to the last level of the game and it tells you "sorry, to play this level you HAVE to play on Legendary..." You CAN complete the game on "Normal". I can see Easy not letting you unlock certain things, and I can see "special" things being unlocked, even achievements.

But don't keep gameplay options locked out (arenas, etc) just because folks can't play on expert.

I actually think the extra arenas are EXACTLY like unlockable armor. There is no extra "gameplay option" except for a different background, and a different order of the same songs.

Also, anyone elver play the old Contra games? You could only play through about half of the game on easy, you had to be normal or better to beat the real game. Did I ever beat it? Hell no. Did I have fun anyways? Hell yes.

[stickshady2007]

There's the point - in Halo 3 you don't get to the last level of the game and it tells you "sorry, to play this level you HAVE to play on Legendary..." You CAN complete the game on "Normal". I can see Easy not letting you unlock certain things, and I can see "special" things being unlocked, even achievements.

I agree with this poster 100 percent ! And yes I play on medium

[Stevenam81]

Yeah, I understand why they did it, and it doesn't bother me. Fans are a way of rating a band, like the band's overall score. You don't have to get more fans to finish BWT. If you see a band that has 600,000 you know right away that they are playing above medium. Think of it like the score in a song. You can't score as much on a song on easy as you can on expert. I believe everyone should be able to play on medium after playing a few songs on easy. For some it takes more, for others less. Usually after 10-20 songs on easy, the person has a feel for how to play. I feel that easy is almost like a training mode just to get you familiar with how the game is played. This game is rated TEEN, so if anyone is irritated about this because their 6 year old is having a hard time, I'm sorry, but it's not designed with them in mind. I don't see any Disney songs in the setlist. But...for the 6 year olds that can handle medium and above I'm very proud of you little guys. I'm not saying they shouldn't play, just that I don't want to hear complaints if they can't handle it.

For adults, suck it up, and practice if you are worried about fans. Like I said, fans aren't crucial to beating BWT. You can still unlock venues and get stars. It's still fun. I usually don't have anyone to play with so I have to play BWT as two characters, singing and playing guitar. I do both on hard. My brother and his wife have come over for the past 2 days to play. We started a band, and they have never played guitar hero before or drums. My brother was on drums, his wife on bass, and me on guitar. By the time we hit the cap, they were both able to play medium with no trouble, except Ride the Lightning lol. She couldn't handle the bass on medium. She was even able to play a few songs on Hard, and this is her first time to ever play. I did have to save her a couple of times, and that is another thing. You do get 3 strikes in BWT.

I will agree on one thing, I noticed they started to lose interest after the fan cap. My brother was not about to play the drums on Hard. He tried once and it tore him up. He took a break and his wife and I played on hard. She did fine on a few songs. They were starting to feel like they were holding me back. But I explained to them that the fans didn't bother me, and to just let me know when they felt like trying hard. We continued to unlock more venues and earn more stars. We had fun.

THIS NEXT PART IS NOT DIRECTED AT HANIKA, BUT PEOPLE ON THE FORUM IN GENERAL. So when I say YOU, I am speaking generally:

I'm tired of all these threads about removing the fan cap, letting us disable the bass pedal, etc. Nobody expects you to be an expert after 6 days of playing. The game hasn't even been out a week. You will get better. This game is meant to be played for a long time, hence the new DLC every week. If this game didn't give us any goals to work toward, people would complain about that. It's getting harder and harder to find decent posts when they are buried in complaints. I love this game, and so far most of the complaints I've seen other than hardware issues have been just opinions. It would be like if someone wanted to trash and badmouth the director of a movie because their favorite character died. Things in this world are becoming to personal and customizable. Everyone thinks everything has to be just the way they want it or it's no good and they feel they have to complain about it. How about adapting to IT, not making it adapt to YOU.

[NattyLight]

I agree with this poster 100 percent ! And yes I play on medium

Uhh, you can still beat the game in BWT. The venues are just a background and add nothimg o gamely. This is like armor. It's something pretty to look at but it doesn't affect gameplay. You don't get stopped because of the cap. You can still play. The game doesn't say "stop until you change to a harder difficulty"

[seafisch]

I wasn't talking about professional athletes. Let's exclude them. Do you think all other athletes should get rid of scores and winners and make everybody MVP because it's jsut a game?

Fair point (and no, I don't think that), but you really can't compare video games - which are an escape from the real world and allow people to do (or pretend to do) things they couldn't normally do - with real world examples.

And I still think people are missing the point. All people are asking for is that the "You earned ___ fans" message continue to show some increase, even if it's significantly smaller on easy than on hard/expert. Is it arbitrary and irrational? Damn right it is. But people are arbitrary and irrational, and if seeing "You earned 25 fans" rather than "You earned 0 fans" satisfies that arbitrary and irrational bent in people, then what's the harm in that?

Sure, letting people continue to earn the same thousands of fans on easy that people earn on hard/expert is closer to the "let's make everyone the MVP" analogy, but that's not what people are asking for.

[NattyLight]

Post

You sir deserve a medal.


Fair point (and no, I don't think that), but you really can't compare video games - which are an escape from the real world and allow people to do (or pretend to do) things they couldn't normally do - with real world examples.


How is it any more or less real world than a video game? Both are diversions. You're actually playing both. You can also pretend to be other people. I guess you've never played any sports but most people compare themselves to or pretend to be pros while they are playing.

[sporkBrigade]

A feeling of accomplishment can't be achieved without giving you a challenge to accomplish. Despite what people are saying, you're not being denied anything with the fans cap. The only arenas and gigs that have fan requirements higher then medium involve challenges for Hard difficulty or higher. It's not "Content". It's unlockable challenges that are there for no other reason then to have something to work towards.

Tokyo has the highest fan requirement in the game. What's there? 1 song that requires hard level or higher from everyone in the band, and like 4 setlists that require hard level or higher from everyone in the band. Explain to me why you are so desperate to get this if such a challenge is of no interest?

Fans themselves are just another factor to control Arenas, and the harder challenges that Arenas posses. If you decided Fans mean something else, that's your problem.

Fact is this. In 2 weeks, when you and your "Band" have practiced a little bit, and find a combination of players that are able to all play on Hard, you are going to sh** your pants in excitement. And that wouldn't have been possible if the Fan cap wasn't there.

For those of you who are missing limbs, and have your dog playing Bass on Easy, I'm sorry. But for the majority of us to enjoy this game and the accompliments it offers, there has to be a skill cutoff. All games have it. There is someone out there you CAN'T play Halo on the easiest levels. That doesn't mean Bungie is mean or uncaring, it just means you have to start somewhere. Quickplay is also a lot more fun then you realize.

[Grey_Street]

I wasn't talking about professional athletes. Let's exclude them. Do you think all other athletes should get rid of scores and winners and make everybody MVP because it's jsut a game?

In your sports analogy, we would limit a teams score, not make everyone the MVP. Would you continue to play as hard as you do/did if your score was halted at a certain point? Would you see football teams continue to try their hardest to score if they were limited to 30 points?

[sporkBrigade]

but that's not what people are asking for.

Incorrect. That's what you're asking for. But you are one, and the rest of the poeple arguing your point want Tokyo unlocked. They want to play setlists at whatever level they want, and they don't want a single challenge on the way. They want Band World Tour to be rebalanced so that they can go anywhere, do anything, and they can do it now. RIGHT NOW. :D

It's instant gratification. In your mind, it's just about that number. But the game is the way it is for a reason, and just becuase you have a somewhat valid point doesn't make it okay to just remove one of the few challenges in the game. Instant Gratification makes for shallow gameplay. Harmonix knows this, and armed with this knowledge they made a good and deep game. Just give it a couple more weeks before you assume otherwise.

As for just giving smaller numbers of fans, they'd have to completely rework the entire BWT system/economy/balance structure just to fulfill your slightly zealous obsession with a number. I'm not sure that's worth the manhours. :)

[NattyLight]

In your sports analogy, we would limit a teams score, not make everyone the MVP. Would you continue to play as hard as you do/did if your score was halted at a certain point? Would you see football teams continue to try their hardest to score if they were limited to 30 points?

So you want to punish athletes for being better now? You want to actively punish their hours of practice and preparation? Did you ever play organized sports growing up. If not, were you involved in any competitions?

[Grey_Street]

Sigh. It's called practice. You will get better. You did buy this game, right? If you want it all, you have to get better. The longevity of Halo was not base don it's single player. Single play for Halo wasn't spectacular. It's multi player is why people play it for years. In that time, people get better. But they had to practice on Multiplayer.


In this game, you need to practice. What it boils down to is that you're just too lazy to practice. All rhythm games require practice. If you didn't know that before, you know it now. Don't buy another one. If you feel like you can't or don't want to practice, I'll buy your guitar.

Correct, the longevity of Halo is the multiplayer, and you aren't limited to raising your score after you hit level 30. You can keep trying to progress, there is no invisible ceiling keeping you at your current score/level. There is also social games, which now count towards your secondary 'ranking'(not sure what they call it, but the rank you get like captain and whatnot'). The realized that not everyone is going to reach level 50, but if you are willing to play enough you can still get the high ranks buy only playing socially...

And thanks for assuming, but I'm not lazy, I can play on Expert for guitar and I enjoy doing so, but when I have a group from work over, not all of them can...but we can hit the fan cap pretty quick. It should be your choice when you are ready to move up, not a glass ceiling...

[NattyLight]

Simple solution the fan cap "issue"

Keep the actual cap the same, but make it take much longer to reach the cap on easy and medium so people can still watch their numbers tick. Say, 2 months of casual playing for easy and 1 month of casual playing on medium before your fan level is maxed out. This way, people can still watch their numbers tick, but by the time they've played a couple of months, they will no undoubtedly have the skill to move up to the next level.

[tbradshaw]

Incorrect. That's what you're asking for. But you are one, and the rest of the poeple arguing your point want Tokyo unlocked. They want to play setlists at whatever level they want, and they don't want a single challenge on the way. They want Band World Tour to be rebalanced so that they can go anywhere, do anything, and they can do it now. RIGHT NOW. :D

It's instant gratification. In your mind, it's just about that number. But the game is the way it is for a reason, and just becuase you have a somewhat valid point doesn't make it okay to just remove one of the few challenges in the game. Instant Gratification makes for shallow gameplay. Harmonix knows this, and armed with this knowledge they made a good and deep game. Just give it a couple more weeks before you assume otherwise.

As for just giving smaller numbers of fans, they'd have to completely rework the entire BWT system/economy/balance structure just to fulfill your slightly zealous obsession with a number. I'm not sure that's worth the manhours. :)

QFT. This is a great explanation of the core complaint.

[Grey_Street]

So you want to punish athletes for being better now? You want to actively punish their hours of practice and preparation? Did you ever play organized sports growing up. If not, were you involved in any competitions?

Ok, I'm completely confused now...that exactly what I was saying we shouldn't do. Would you want to limit a teams score? Why would we want to punish people that have taken hours of practise to reach medium or hard w/ an arbitrary cap on score? Yes I played organized sports, and I never remember our score being limited.

There is still a full season for those teams that play in Division II, III and the NAIA...should we not allow them a post season because they couldn't compete w/ D1 school? Or should there be an NCAA sanction limiting crowd size at Division II basketball games? That is the best way to put this game into a sports analogy.

[Grey_Street]

If the cap is not big deal, lets put a cap on expert. 1,000,000 fans is the top anyone can get. Would people that played enough to get 35mil or whatever it is care? Probably.

[Bakkster]

Correct, the longevity of Halo is the multiplayer, and you aren't limited to raising your score after you hit level 30. You can keep trying to progress, there is no invisible ceiling keeping you at your current score/level. There is also social games, which now count towards your secondary 'ranking'(not sure what they call it, but the rank you get like captain and whatnot'). The realized that not everyone is going to reach level 50, but if you are willing to play enough you can still get the high ranks buy only playing socially...

There is a ceiling to your rank. It may not be a hard rank, but it is based on difficulty. To gain rank 20, you must be winning against other rank 20 players. Rank only goes up based on your ranking in playlists, which is, in turn, based on how good you are. Your EXP are like the BWT stars, your ranking is like fans. You have to step it up to gain ranking (fans), but you can continue to gain EXP (stars), and the only things locked out are armors and tags (venues and setlists).

[Stevenam81]

In your sports analogy, we would limit a teams score, not make everyone the MVP. Would you continue to play as hard as you do/did if your score was halted at a certain point? Would you see football teams continue to try their hardest to score if they were limited to 30 points?

If we did, the first team to 30 would win. Game over, end of story.

[NattyLight]

There is still a full season for those teams that play in Division II, III and the NAIA...should we not allow them a post season because they couldn't compete w/ D1 school? Or should there be an NCAA sanction limiting crowd size at Division II basketball games? That is the best way to put this game into a sports analogy.

Yea, the won't be winning a Heisman trophy or getting national coverage when they are the champion of their league.

[seafisch]

If the cap is not big deal, lets put a cap on expert. 1,000,000 fans is the top anyone can get. Would people that played enough to get 35mil or whatever it is care? Probably.

I made a similar argument in the other thread on this topic. If the hard/expert players think the easy/medium players are making too big a deal out of the number of fans you can earn, just get rid of the whole damn stat altogether. You can earn stars and cash, but not fans. The hard/expert players probably wouldn't like that very much.

They could have just put a difficulty restriction on the "bonus" arenas. In other words, to play sets at them, everyone has to play at hard or expert. If that's the only thing that you can't do on medium, then that would have been a simple solution.

[NattyLight]

Would you guys that only care about your number like this idea?

Simple solution the fan cap "issue"

Keep the actual cap the same, but make it take much longer to reach the cap on easy and medium so people can still watch their numbers tick. Say, 2 months of casual playing for easy and 1 month of casual playing on medium before your fan level is maxed out. This way, people can still watch their numbers tick, but by the time they've played a couple of months, they will no undoubtedly have the skill to move up to the next level.

[Grey_Street]

There is a ceiling to your rank. It may not be a hard rank, but it is based on difficulty. To gain rank 20, you must be winning against other rank 20 players. Rank only goes up based on your ranking in playlists, which is, in turn, based on how good you are. Your EXP are like the BWT stars, your ranking is like fans. You have to step it up to gain ranking (fans), but you can continue to gain EXP (stars), and the only things locked out are armors and tags (venues and setlists).

It's really not apples to apples as they are completely different games. But if you want to keep breaking it down, I would argue that my friend who generally only plays Halo w/ me would probably rank in at about a 15-20...but I brought him up to a 31. He just happens to go less negative than I go positive.

Also, you still get a sense of accomplishment everytime you beat someone, even if your rank doesn't go up, because you actually beat somebody. You aren't playing actual people here, the incentive is score and fans. There is no sense of accomplishment when I finish playing a tough song on Expert guitar and because my wife and coworkers can't play expert bass, drums and singing I see 'you gained 0 fans'. I still have yet to see a good reason for keeping the cap. The only argument is, you should be able to play a harder difficulty. Well, not everyone can after a couple hours, and it hurts nobody to let people gain fans.

[seafisch]

That's a step in the right direction, but you would eventually start seeing the "You earned 0 fans" message, which would still bug a lot of people.

[Stevenam81]

In your sports analogy, we would limit a teams score, not make everyone the MVP. Would you continue to play as hard as you do/did if your score was halted at a certain point? Would you see football teams continue to try their hardest to score if they were limited to 30 points?

Let me also say that isn't a good analogy. An analogy to football would be one coach saying to the other coach "We have a few guys here that have only been to a few practices, and to be quite honest they stink. But they want to play, and I'm getting tired of hearing them *****. So what I need from you is for you to take all of your good players off the field so my piss poor players can win this game. Ok great, I knew you'd understand...."

[surgesnugs]

Would you guys that only care about your number like this idea?

Simple solution the fan cap "issue"

Keep the actual cap the same, but make it take much longer to reach the cap on easy and medium so people can still watch their numbers tick. Say, 2 months of casual playing for easy and 1 month of casual playing on medium before your fan level is maxed out. This way, people can still watch their numbers tick, but by the time they've played a couple of months, they will no undoubtedly have the skill to move up to the next level.

That would help. I think the smack in the face part of the issue is how quickly the game wants you to up the difficulty. I mean, I've played BWT maybe 4-5 hours total and I'm at a point where it doesn't even have an option to play some areas on Easy or Medium.

[sporkBrigade]

Correct, the longevity of Halo is the multiplayer, and you aren't limited to raising your score after you hit level 30. You can keep trying to progress, there is no invisible ceiling keeping you at your current score/level. There is also social games, which now count towards your secondary 'ranking'(not sure what they call it, but the rank you get like captain and whatnot'). The realized that not everyone is going to reach level 50, but if you are willing to play enough you can still get the high ranks buy only playing socially...

And thanks for assuming, but I'm not lazy, I can play on Expert for guitar and I enjoy doing so, but when I have a group from work over, not all of them can...but we can hit the fan cap pretty quick. It should be your choice when you are ready to move up, not a glass ceiling...

Halo Ranks do have a skill cap. You can only reach a certain rank during "Social" games. After that, to continue gaining ranks, you have to step up and play "Ranked" games.

So yes, you can socially play. But only to a certain cap. After that, you have to step up to the harder games to continue. Interesting.

[Grey_Street]

Would you guys that only care about your number like this idea?

Simple solution the fan cap "issue"

Keep the actual cap the same, but make it take much longer to reach the cap on easy and medium so people can still watch their numbers tick. Say, 2 months of casual playing for easy and 1 month of casual playing on medium before your fan level is maxed out. This way, people can still watch their numbers tick, but by the time they've played a couple of months, they will no undoubtedly have the skill to move up to the next level.

The problem with that is, sure the person that owns the game will be at a new level...but the party of people they invite over probably won't be. Would you care if there was a cap at hard and expert? Nobody can go over 1,000,000 fans? That is the top? That would solve everyones problems. Then everybody eventually stops earning fans.

I don't see why you don't understand it is in your best interest to have as many people playing and progressing as possible. If Joe Blow feels like he is no longer accomplishing anything at the level he is playing and knows he doesn't have the time to devote to moving up, he will not buy DLC. If he doesn't and all the people like him that are in the same boat don't, the VERY small percentage that can find a 4 person expert band will start getting less and less DLC...

[NattyLight]

The problem with that is, sure the person that owns the game will be at a new level...but the party of people they invite over probably won't be. Would you care if there was a cap at hard and expert? Nobody can go over 1,000,000 fans? That is the top? That would solve everyones problems. Then everybody eventually stops earning fans.



So all you want is literally everything to be unlocked at once so people you bring over with to party can play. That's not going to happen without a cheat code.

Maybe you should start a petition that some clothes are too expensive and you jsut want your party people to look nice. If you can't play this game on medium after 2 full months of practice, you suck. Go buy Disney Karaoke

[Bakkster]

Also, you still get a sense of accomplishment everytime you beat someone, even if your rank doesn't go up, because you actually beat somebody. You aren't playing actual people here, the incentive is score and fans. There is no sense of accomplishment when I finish playing a tough song on Expert guitar and because my wife and coworkers can't play expert bass, drums and singing I see 'you gained 0 fans'. I still have yet to see a good reason for keeping the cap. The only argument is, you should be able to play a harder difficulty. Well, not everyone can after a couple hours, and it hurts nobody to let people gain fans.

I get a sense of accomplishment every time I beat a song. If I don't gain any fans, they just didn't comprehend my genius. I don't need fans like that anyway. :p

If you aren't enjoying playing songs, and your enjoyment of the game is tied to the number of fans you gain, why are you playing Rock Band?

[Grey_Street]

Yea, the won't be winning a Heisman trophy or getting national coverage when they are the champion of their league.

Exactly, and a player gaining fans on Medium won't be reaching the leader boards w/ their scores...but they still get to play. You just keep making my arguments stronger and stronger.

I'm not asking that a player playing Medium that the equivelant of national coverage or the Heisman(top of leaderboards) I just ask that the get to keep playing and gaining fans. I'm happy being the strongest player on my DIII(medium) band, I just want to be able to have my shot at continuing to get better(gaining fans).

[Grey_Street]

I get a sense of accomplishment every time I beat a song. If I don't gain any fans, they just didn't comprehend my genius. I don't need fans like that anyway. :p

If you aren't enjoying playing songs, and your enjoyment of the game is tied to the number of fans you gain, why are you playing Rock Band?

The enjoyment comes from playing songs, the dissappointment comes from no longer progressing after my band hits the glass ceiling. Why do people strive to be at the top of the leaderboard? Why are they playing Rock Band?

Give those that will never have the skill to reach those levels the chance at some sense of success.

Let's just take out scores altogether. Why play Rock Band just for a certain number to show when you are done...come on people.

[Bluvox]

That would help.

Why would THAT help? Just make it so from the cap up you can get there faster using the higher levels (which you would anyway) than you would from medium. Maybe make a cap on easy at the 260k level (where medium is now) but let medium continue. From a 360 perspective, look at the achievements. 30 of the 50 achievements currently available on the game for your gamertag require you to play at Hard or Expert. Of those, at least half are because of the "Big in <City>" achievements, that need you to unlock the last of the sets by getting fans. Once you have that level of fans you can "probably" play on medium for the set lists (someone correct me on that one, I haven't unlocked them yet).

So there is plenty of room to want to improve from the game perspective, there are even achievements you have to get up to hard or expert, 6 of them for the solo and another 4 for BWT, that need expert to unlock. By comparision there are 4 online achievements.

So what the nay-sayers are concerned about is the leaderboards? If beyond the "cap" you don't get as many fans on medium as expert, the expert folks will ALWAYS be on the top, even if up until the mysterious cap point expert got the same number of fans (which I'm pretty sure they don't) per performance.

Get to real issues on "why not" and not elitest crap, plskthx. If there was a real part of the gameplay that made it compelling beyond "I want to get better", that's fine. But the songs already get harder, you have to play longer sets, and there is incentive to get more % per song. The higher scores and more fans you'd naturally in the progression will make folks want to play harder levels, and to get those last couple of achievements. By locking up over half the achievements to hard/expert only, I think you'll just discourage folks from playing, and word of mouth will be "rent it, it's not worth dropping ANY money for".

[sporkBrigade]

That would help. I think the smack in the face part of the issue is how quickly the game wants you to up the difficulty. I mean, I've played BWT maybe 4-5 hours total and I'm at a point where it doesn't even have an option to play some areas on Easy or Medium.



Er, you guys do realize there's caps on Hard too, right? 600,000 fans. That's why the 1million mark is an achievement. To get a mil fans, you have to have everyone on Expert. Most likely, there already is a cap on Expert fans too. I wouldn't know though, haven't gotten there. Gonna be hella excited when I do, though.

[NattyLight]

Exactly, and a player gaining fans on Medium won't be reaching the leader boards w/ their scores...but they still get to play. You just keep making my arguments stronger and stronger.

I'm not asking that a player playing Medium that the equivelant of national coverage or the Heisman(top of leaderboards) I just ask that the get to keep playing and gaining fans. I'm happy being the strongest player on my DIII(medium) band, I just want to be able to have my shot at continuing to get better(gaining fans).

Those players also don't get more money or fans by being lesser schools. They keep playing but they don't get more fans. If they manage to get a lot of fans, they move up a level. Oh wow, this game does that too

[Grey_Street]

So all you want is literally everything to be unlocked at once so people you bring over with to party can play. That's not going to happen without a cheat code.

Maybe you should start a petition that some clothes are too expensive and you jsut want your party people to look nice. If you can't play this game on medium after 2 full months of practice, you suck. Go buy Disney Karaoke

Where did I say that I want everything unlocked? I just don't want to see progress stop because I ran into a glass ceiling. It's frustrating when you get past a song that took three people being saved, every last ounce of will to pass, just to see '0 fans gained'...

I just don't want to to see the # of fans be capped. Nothing game breaking here. I just see no reason that your score or fans should stop going up. It really doesn't make any sense. If you want to be in your "I'm better than everyone" club that's fine. I just want to have fun and continue to improve on my miserable existense...

[Grey_Street]

Those players also don't get more money or fans by being lesser schools. They keep playing but they don't get more fans. If they manage to get a lot of fans, they move up a level. Oh wow, this game does that too

No this game makes you move up a level first ;)

Many schools will drop in fan base when they move up a level...because they don't win very often. They gain their fans buy winning...unlike this game after you hit the ceiling.

[surgesnugs]

Honestly, if it were entirely up to me, I'd just have BWT work at any difficulty level. The majority of people complaining about this aren't interested in completing the game quickly. They're interested in completing the game at all. I'm playing on Hard now because Medium got boring. I think most people play the same way. You play the highest level you can. As you play and get better, you move up. Why not let the player decide when that point is? It's not like it's a novel concept. Most games with difficulty levels allow you to play through the entire game at that difficulty. Some cut you off on Easy, but most let you progress through the whole game on Medium/Normal, and then Hard and Expert are for the hardcore. I thought that was the point of difficulty levels, to open up the game to more people. My wife never would have played God of War without the availability of the Easy level.

[Bakkster]

The enjoyment comes from playing songs, the dissappointment comes from no longer progressing after my band hits the glass ceiling. Why do people strive to be at the top of the leaderboard? Why are they playing Rock Band?

I've never been disappointed when I hit the fan cap. I know I can keep playing, so why would I worry? Maybe they should take out the "Gained 0 fans" for those who have sensitive egos. All I know is that my band is as good as it can be, until it gets better. This is both a good way to differentiate between difficulty levels, and to motivate better playing.


Give those that will never have the skill to reach those levels the chance at some sense of success.

Why should everyone succeed? Why take the sense of accomplishment in gaining 1mil fans by working your way to expert and let everyone who can only play on Medium have the same accomplishment. It turns the accomplishment into an entitlement. Instead of 1mil fans being a sign of an awesome band, it becomes a sign of people spending enough time playing.

In short, nobody deserves success, it needs to be earned.

[sporkBrigade]

Of those, at least half are because of the "Big in <City>" achievements, that need you to unlock the last of the sets by getting fans. Once you have that level of fans you can "probably" play on medium for the set lists (someone correct me on that one, I haven't unlocked them yet).

Incorrect. The majority of setlists and marathons that are locked behind a venue that requires a fan number you can only get with Hard level players also require Hard level players. It's the most ironic part of these complaints. If people can get the fans to unlock Tokyo, there's nothing there they can play, because it's all Hard level.

Of course, then the posts would just change from "Remove Fan Cap" to "Change all Setlists to allow for Easy!!1" It's a viscious circle.

[Credge]

The idea of games not allowing you to play (or see) all of the content on lowers difficulties is an old and archaic gaming model used to try to increase the replay value of otherwise incredibly short games. Games like Final Fight and TMNT The Arcade Game had this, and it was simply bad.

I can understand the "Get better for more rewards" thing, and it is understandable. However, it's simply not a very good party game idea.

Instead of capping it off, there should be a decrease in the number of fans you get after playing a set. This is more realistic anyway.

[Bluvox]

Incorrect. The majority of setlists and marathons that are locked behind a venue that requires a fan number you can only get with Hard level players also require Hard level players. It's the most ironic part of these complaints. If people can get the fans to unlock Tokyo, there's nothing there they can play, because it's all Hard level.

Of course, then the posts would just change from "Remove Fan Cap" to "Change all Setlists to allow for Easy!!1" It's a viscious circle.

Thanks for the clarification, I had already said someone correct me that unlocked it. The songs aren't locked by "Hard/Expert", which I believe none are locked past Medium.

I don't think anyone is asking for an "I win" button for easy folks to be able to get all achievements, but I think they want to be able to at least play the entire game on medium, which is the perceived gold standard of gaming. The object of a gaming company is to make a game folks want to play, and enjoy playing, and will continue to buy. If the perceived idea is that the game will bring more people in to buy Rock Band merchandise and "real life" fan base, I think the changes will be looked at.

Maybe they'll patch it in 3-6 months so that the "non-hardcore" get their shot, too. They've already talked about the online BWT being more like a MMO than a co-op game.. so maybe the thought of "early adopter reward" will come out here too. I sure hope not, but until we get official feedback it'll be hard to say.

[Grey_Street]

I've never been disappointed when I hit the fan cap. I know I can keep playing, so why would I worry? Maybe they should take out the "Gained 0 fans" for those who have sensitive egos. All I know is that my band is as good as it can be, until it gets better. This is both a good way to differentiate between difficulty levels, and to motivate better playing.



Why should everyone succeed? Why take the sense of accomplishment in gaining 1mil fans by working your way to expert and let everyone who can only play on Medium have the same accomplishment. It turns the accomplishment into an entitlement. Instead of 1mil fans being a sign of an awesome band, it becomes a sign of people spending enough time playing.

In short, nobody deserves success, it needs to be earned.

Then why have difficulty levels at all? Lets just make everyone start at expert because you should be able to get there sooner or later right? If not then why would there be caps? It is OBVIOUSLY the natural point that everyone should be able to move to the next level :rolleyes:

Why should everyone suceed? Because it is a game w/ difficutly levels! It is meant to be played by different people w/ different abilities. Why halt one of the core aspects of the main game mode??

[Mr Suplex]

Yeah, not getting more for not doing more is a horrible idea. I think everybody that plays sports should be the MVP and there should be no winners. Everybody is a winner. It's just a game right?


How about schools? Let's get rid of grades and valedictorians because it's discouraging for dumb kids to know that they're not doing as well as smarter ones.

Now that we're on it. BUrger flippers should get just as much money as doctors. Why punish burger flippers because they can't do teh work doctors do. They're still people

Shut up you dork. What do you lose by having this fan cap removed? Nothing, unless you are one of those losers who actually thinks it means something in life to play this game on Expert (other than to enjoy the challenge).

This game is not meant to be real life. Stop comparing the two. The whole point of this game is for someone to PRETEND to be a Rock Star. Capping the fans puts a big dent in this experience for a large number of users.

If the fan cap was removed, what ****ing difference would it make to you? None. So STFU...

[Bakkster]

Then why have difficulty levels at all? Lets just make everyone start at expert because you should be able to get there sooner or later right? If not then why would there be caps? It is OBVIOUSLY the natural point that everyone should be able to move to the next level :rolleyes:

Why should everyone suceed? Because it is a game w/ difficutly levels! It is meant to be played by different people w/ different abilities. Why halt one of the core aspects of the main game mode??

Why have multiple difficulties? To allow people to choose what they are comfortable with. The game should still be accessible (I started on easy way back when), but shouldn't necessarily give you equal footing with those on higher difficulties.

I'm simply stating the the number of fans you have is based on how good your band is. If you play on a higher difficulty (aka, are a better band), you can get more fans. Since fans don't stop you from advancing very much (still plenty of gameplay between the medium cap and maxing out your stars) I still don't see the issue.

Are you REALLY that desperate for Tokyo?

Would you be happy if you gained one fan for every star you gained after 250k?

[Grey_Street]

Why have multiple difficulties? To allow people to choose what they are comfortable with. The game should still be accessible (I started on easy way back when), but shouldn't necessarily give you equal footing with those on higher difficulties.

I'm simply stating the the number of fans you have is based on how good your band is. If you play on a higher difficulty (aka, are a better band), you can get more fans. Since fans don't stop you from advancing very much (still plenty of gameplay between the medium cap and maxing out your stars) I still don't see the issue.

Are you REALLY that desperate for Tokyo?

Would you be happy if you gained one fan for every star you gained after 250k?

I really don't care about Tokyo, I just see the bread and butter of this game being the BWT mode...and the main aspects of that mode are gaining fans, earning stars while pretending to be in your own band w/ your friends. This is taken away extremely early in game play on the medium difficulty.

When people get to a point that they no longer feel they progress w/ out moving to a difficulty they are comfortable with...they will quit. This is the worst thing for a game that is meant as a 'platform' and requires a large fan base to continue revenue based on DLC. I already have friends that don't want to buy DLC if they can't continue to progress. You can't even get through all the content on the disk w/out hitting the cap. Who wants to pay for new content if they've already maxxed out?

As I've said multiple times, it is in all our best interest to keep the largest fan base possible.

[Bakkster]

I really don't care about Tokyo, I just see the bread and butter of this game being the BWT mode...and the main aspects of that mode are gaining fans, earning stars while pretending to be in your own band w/ your friends. This is taken away extremely early in game play on the medium difficulty.

When people get to a point that they no longer feel they progress w/ out moving to a difficulty they are comfortable with...they will quit.

We must just have totally different mindsets. I didn't stop playing GH when I stopped progressing, I just had fun. I therefor assumed that was why people play RB as well. I treat BWT like garnish to a meal. Yes, it makes the meal better, but I'm not eating steak because I like the seasonings, I just like steak. Maybe I can't eat a buttered roll with my steak (get it?), but I don't care, I can just eat more steak ;)

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

[Grey_Street]

I totally see your point and in the realm of GH I even agree w/ it :)

But the point of BWT mode is it's a persistant mode that continues on forever. This happens by continuing to gain fains and downloading new songs. I guess I just don't understand the logic behind the 'persistant mode' all of a sudden losing one of it's main quantifiers.

I love the challenge of pushing myself and I hope to be able to play expert drums at some point, singing is a lost cause for me :) but reaching a fan cap in one night for a game that is meant to be a new platform and provide continuous gameplay just seems flawed to me.

[ManOwaR]

If you don't want to ever learn hard, it's fine. they don't force ya too. I'm sure there will be some unlock code eventually, but I'm glad they set up an encouragement scale.

Also, I liked that there are "easy" hard songs, and "hard" hard songs. You can get fans quick and lose a few and still net out ahead. Using overdrive to save bandmates and play on is cool.

[scuzme]

I'm getting confused by all these back and forth.

Some of you said you can play whatever songs you want, some of you say they are locked. I believe they are locked, unless I'm mistaken. Is it that once you all play on medium you can play every song even if you don't win more fans? Or you can't play every song until everyone is at the expert level.

[seafisch]

Clarify one thing for me, as I'm starting to see conflicting info in this thread:

Hard caps at 600K fans, which is require to unlock the last two venues, correct? Are there any songs that you can only play at those two venues? If yes, then the medium fan cap keeps medium level players from experiencing all of the content (songs) they paid for, because they can't play it in the game's core mode.

[Bluvox]

I'm getting confused by all these back and forth.

Some of you said you can play whatever songs you want, some of you say they are locked. I believe they are locked, unless I'm mistaken. Is it that once you all play on medium you can play every song even if you don't win more fans? Or you can't play every song until everyone is at the expert level.

In Band World Tour it's all about the venues, more than the songs per se. There aren't any (to my knowledge) Hard or Expert only songs that you can unlock on Solo, but some of the set lists have been reported to require you to play as Hard or Expert to complete the set, and thus gain fans. The BWT part of the game is all about gaining fans and increasing the exposure of your band.

What I find interesting is that a "Vynl Record" band can make it into the Hall of Fame, but can't play in Toyko. Guess they are just picky on what bands can play there.

[obersmith]

You can unlock all of the songs by playing through the Solo Tour on Medium with any of the instruments. I'm not sure about BWT since I did all of my unlocking on Solo.

[Bakkster]

Are there any songs that you can only play at those two venues? If yes, then the medium fan cap keeps medium level players from experiencing all of the content (songs) they paid for, because they can't play it in the game's core mode.

I unlocked all songs on solo and was able to play every one of them in BWT through random and personalized setlists. All songs should unlock in BWT on medium as well.

[seafisch]

I unlocked all songs on solo and was able to play every one of them in BWT through random and personalized setlists. All songs should unlock in BWT on medium as well.

But if I have all of the songs unlocked through Solo Tour, are any of them limited to the two venues that you can only access if everyone is playing hard/expert level?

[scuzme]

I unlocked all songs on solo and was able to play every one of them in BWT through random and personalized setlists. All songs should unlock in BWT on medium as well.

Oh thank god! I'll go back and play then. I was so frustrated last night I almost wanted to invite random people to my house just to unlock the songs.

[blue_dragonzero]

A real musician's view is this. If you play simple songs (easy), you won't be very well received by fans. Thus you earn less. But as your song become interesting and more complex, you will be received better. However, a complete drop probably wasn't wise. Maybe divide the fans you get after a certain amount by 10?

[Credge]

A real musician's view is this. If you play simple songs (easy), you won't be very well received by fans. Thus you earn less. But as your song become interesting and more complex, you will be received better. However, a complete drop probably wasn't wise. Maybe divide the fans you get after a certain amount by 10?

This is absolutely not true. Case in point: Blink-182 and Guthrie Govan. Who is more popular?

[Stevenam81]

Clarify one thing for me, as I'm starting to see conflicting info in this thread:

Hard caps at 600K fans, which is require to unlock the last two venues, correct? Are there any songs that you can only play at those two venues? If yes, then the medium fan cap keeps medium level players from experiencing all of the content (songs) they paid for, because they can't play it in the game's core mode.

If you've even played the game you'd know that you can access all songs at any time during BWT as long as you have unlocked that all in the solo game. Before I played BWT I beat the solo drums game. There are certain songs that you play at each venue, along with a mystery setlist and a custom setlist. Since I have 5 DLC songs, I have 63 songs to choose from when picking a custom setlist, even if somone is on easy. The mystery setlist, which is random, can also choose from all of these songs. There are usually 3 or 4 single songs you have to play in most of the smaller venues. They progress in difficulty as you go through BWT mode. But to answer your question. You can finish BWT with access to ALL songs playing on medium. The only thing you get by playing on hard and getting more fans is access to shows that you can only play on the hard setting anyway. The fan cap makes sense to me. I hope they don't change it.

Just pretend that in your virtual Rock Band world there are only 260,000 fans that like a band that plays on medium. If you want earn another 340,000 fans, they are only interested in bands that play on hard. Once you have 260,000 fans on medium, great job, you've got them all. Now keep playing on medium, gaining more stars, and by the time you beat BWT you'll be ready go back and play the first venues again on hard to gain more fans, which will then give you access to the harder concerts. It is a long fun process. Maybe by the time you beat BWT mode there will be some more DLC so you will have some new songs the next time around.

Why is everyone so worried about fans? I care the most about the stars. Trust me..If you get to the point where you can get 5 stars on every show on medium you will be ready for hard. Who cares if you earn 0 fans. Does it really bother you so much that you have to spend time on here complaining when you could be practicing?

[Frederf]

Simple solution the fan cap "issue"

Keep the actual cap the same, but make it take much longer to reach the cap on easy and medium so people can still watch their numbers tick. Say, 2 months of casual playing for easy and 1 month of casual playing on medium before your fan level is maxed out. This way, people can still watch their numbers tick, but by the time they've played a couple of months, they will no undoubtedly have the skill to move up to the next level.

I can completely agree with that type of solution. The fan cap is lovely in theory but the presentation leaves a lot to be desired. The execution is bad but the motivation sound.

There's really two arguments flying around here and they are intermixed which makes this such a "you're an idiot" and "you're a whiner" type debate. A lot of confusion happens because both arguments are happening at the same time.

Argument 1: "Every bit, bobble, unlock, and caboodle should not be sealed behind the impenetrable doors of difficulty settings but achievable by everyone on any difficulty."

Argument 2: "The presentation of the fan cap is disheartening and feels taunting when reached. Reaching the fan cap gives my Xbox GamerScore-addled mind a fit. Also it feels like I cannot complete the game to my satisfaction without playing on Hard."

And these really are two completely separate arguments and should not be confused for each other. For example, my take on Argument 1 is that it's fine for their to be special challenges and trophies that are out of John Q. Everyman's reach. In line with Argument 2 I have to say that the presentation is lacking, gives the impression of failure to our pathos-minded brethren, and does not promote the joyous type of play we seem to demand.


They could have just put a difficulty restriction on the "bonus" arenas. In other words, to play sets at them, everyone has to play at hard or expert. If that's the only thing that you can't do on medium, then that would have been a simple solution.

That's what they've done!!


That would help. I think the smack in the face part of the issue is how quickly the game wants you to up the difficulty. I mean, I've played BWT maybe 4-5 hours total and I'm at a point where it doesn't even have an option to play some areas on Easy or Medium.

See, another "Presentation not Concept" complaint. Btw, I call BS on this. I don't think you can exhaust all of the sets on Medium in only 5 hours. Either way, yeah the cap comes up at an unnatural tempo. The idea of the cap was probably (developer's stand point) that you've done easy/medium so well that you are pros now and ready to move on. The numbers aren't quite right tbh.


So all you want is literally everything to be unlocked at once so people you bring over with to party can play. That's not going to happen without a cheat code.

Maybe you should start a petition that some clothes are too expensive and you jsut want your party people to look nice. If you can't play this game on medium after 2 full months of practice, you suck. Go buy Disney Karaoke

Actually this is what Quick Play should be! Quick Play should have everything unlocked, songs, venues, etc right from the beginning. Also quick play should have an optional "select venue" option instead of just being random. Also Quick Play is the wrong title, it should be called "Party Mode."


The enjoyment comes from playing songs, the dissappointment comes from no longer progressing after my band hits the glass ceiling.

See? People equate fans with progress. In all honesty Stars, Score, cash should feel like progress but people see fans gained 0 and think the world is at an end. It's stupid psychology but if people are feeling it it's just as real as if it actually had an effect.


I really don't care about Tokyo, I just see the bread and butter of this game being the BWT mode...and the main aspects of that mode are gaining fans, earning stars while pretending to be in your own band w/ your friends. This is taken away extremely early in game play on the medium difficulty.

I think this quote speaks for itself. This is a complaint about the presentation not about the withholding.

Are there really people out there that 5-star Easy but can't even pass Medium? Can 5-star Medium but can't pass Hard?


I'm getting confused by all these back and forth.

Some of you said you can play whatever songs you want, some of you say they are locked. I believe they are locked, unless I'm mistaken. Is it that once you all play on medium you can play every song even if you don't win more fans? Or you can't play every song until everyone is at the expert level.

See? Look at the misinformation flying around. You can play every song on Medium. People have blown out of proportion what tiny vestige of the game is behind the "hard" and "expert" doors that people honestly think that half the game is back there.


But if I have all of the songs unlocked through Solo Tour, are any of them limited to the two venues that you can only access if everyone is playing hard/expert level?

Nope.


A real musician's view is this. If you play simple songs (easy), you won't be very well received by fans. Thus you earn less. But as your song become interesting and more complex, you will be received better. However, a complete drop probably wasn't wise. Maybe divide the fans you get after a certain amount by 10?

See? This is the kind of thinking I share that was so elusive to the HMX devs. Just slow the fan increase to a crawl instead of making it 0, 0, 0, 0, 0. Functionally it's a cap as you won't be getting to 1,000,000 fans 26 at a time but the *drum roll* presentation is better.


The only thing you get by playing on hard and getting more fans is access to shows that you can only play on the hard setting anyway. The fan cap makes sense to me. I hope they don't change it.

I hope they CHANGE the fan cap, I just hope they don't REMOVE it.

[blue_dragonzero]

This is absolutely not true. Case in point: Blink-182 and Guthrie Govan. Who is more popular?

That's due to a lapse in musical judgement by the youth.

[sickdaddy]

As long as I can still unlock all the songs, It's fine with me.

[seafisch]

If you've even played the game you'd know that you can access all songs at any time during BWT as long as you have unlocked that all in the solo game.

I have played the game, thank you for your snideness - but I haven't played BWT as extensively as others have (so I wouldn't know all that can and can't be done - thanks for proving the old saying about what happens when you assume), and, as I stated in my post, I was seeing conflicting information as to whether certain songs were restricted to hard/expert, and not just venues.


That's what they've done!!

Not exactly the same. They could have restricted those venues to hard/expert players without a fan cap.

[Grey_Street]

Why is everyone so worried about fans? I care the most about the stars. Trust me..If you get to the point where you can get 5 stars on every show on medium you will be ready for hard. Who cares if you earn 0 fans. Does it really bother you so much that you have to spend time on here complaining when you could be practicing?

So would you be upset if the number of stars were limited when playing on medium? Same thing...

[Hanika]

Natty, stating your age means nothing when the first post you make is some dream quote of something I never said, showing your mindset. You lose alot of credibility and become the kid no one wants as a friend in real life.
Some of your other opinions are valid. As are all others, I totally understand what they were trying to do with the fan cap. And honestly I didn't know you could still progress through the mode with the fan cap.

With that said, I speak as a parent, with 2 kids and a wife who've been looking forward to this for months. I have a family and know I'll only get a few hours a week to play with them in Rockband, And was seeing this as something that would last us for maybe a year or years making the $170 an easy choice.
And the Fan Cap does do something psychological, Probably even more so since the 360's release, Just look how people get over something as ridiculous as a gamerscore.
When the Fan Cap message came on there was a "what?.....awwwww." that went around the room.
It gives the impression that you suck and need to move on.
But, I know my son can't sing above Easy, I know my Wife can't play above medium, etc.

So the night before my youngest was gone we did play the game without him, which gained a bunch of fans Since he wasn't there on Easy, Then he came back and we went to play and after signing him in, The "Easy" option is greyed out? Meaning he has no choice but to FAIL on medium, or not play with the rest of us? That's NOT a party game at all.
HORRIBLE decision. Are you telling me it was just a glitch? I'll boot it up again when they get home and try, hopefully the game messed up and he CAN still play in the family band.
But, since we have more fans than the "Easy" fan cap it wouldn't let him play Easy.


Oh, to that guy asking why I posted my music? Not to plug myself, I just know how people are on Forums.

Mainly My kids see me all the time doing the real life RockBand thing. Practicing, Getting dressesd up for a gig, etc.
And this game was their chance to understand. Because quickplay was one thing, but when we went into BWT they REALLY got into it.
For that I'm dissapointed.

[Tyvan]

Does it really bother you so much that you have to spend time on here complaining when you could be practicing?

Practicing PLAYING a video game? Are you serious?

When me and my wife get home from work and pick the kids up we want to have fun NOT practice a video game.

Just wait, one day you might get a real life!:eek:

[Stevenam81]

Practicing PLAYING a video game? Are you serious?

When me and my wife get home from work and pick the kids up we want to have fun NOT practice a video game.

Just wait, one day you might get a real life!:eek:

I do have a life. I'm a software/web developer, I'm taking a couple of classes at college, and I still work my old waiting tables job at Chilis every other weekend just for some extra spending cash and to keep up with old friends.

By practice, I mean playing. Whether it's single player, quickplay, whatever. I just meant even going back and playing the mystery and create your own setlists again at your current difficulty until you are good enough to move on. I promise, you will get better without even realizing it. It's just like anything else.