Drummers who play on HARD.

[updog07]

Is anyone stuck on a certain song?

I play drums in real life.. so i can pretty much do what is expected on this game..

however...
Boston's song on here is ****ing HARRRDDD...

its very jazzy..

and im also stuck on the deep purple song...
the chorus is veryyy odd with the crash,snare, kick thing that goes on there...

any suggestions?
any other songs that will give me even more trouble before i beat it on hard?

[OpTiOnMaStA]

Just out of curiosity how close do you think this game on drums mirrors actually playing a drum set? Since you play drums I want to hear what you have to say on this matter.

As for me, I got stuck on Learn to Fly on Hard. I have since figured it out but am just now starting a solo career on hard so I am sure I will get stuck just about after that.

[basser555]

I was stuck on Don't Fear the Reaper for awhile. I always failed during Ending B and C.

However, i conserved overdrive and used it to barely survive! Glad I have access to the final tier on hard drum career!

However, I have a feeling that Next To You and Run to the Hills will be kicking my ass once I get my game back.

[luminary pants]

Run to the hills is ridiculous. I haven't had the time to take it in to practice mode or anything, but after failing it 3 times, and never being anywhere close to finding the beat..im scared.

[XquietusX]

i just started trying hard, there are a few songs i am good at otherwise, i just barely get through the songs, but i am stuck on 2 songs right now. i forgot the names of the songs though. i am having trouble with the foot pedal yet, i cant hold beats on anything that doesnt have a beat with the foot pedal or very little without a beat, start putting just the foot pedal in there a lot without beats just screws me up.

[smith5879]

That song is very hard and I play drums in real life too. Try playing it on expert, I think it's a little easier for me than on hard just because it's how the real song goes. As for comparing playing rock band to a real drum set, I think the game can definitely teach the basics, such as keeping the high hat, bass and snare going at the same time. If you really want to learn to play drums you gotta buy a real set though.

[Hunter]

i was stuck on dont fear reaper i am horrible at the fills in the game , and run to the hills is insane its rly hard to get beat after the beginning and its lke a constant fill on expert not expecting to beat that anytime soon i haven't had any trouble with any other songs only two i failed at and was stuck at is the ones i just mentioned

[derrikirred]

I haven't gotten stuck on Hard yet, but I'm only about 20 songs in. We'll see how it goes.

[lordofsquirrel17]

Just out of curiosity how close do you think this game on drums mirrors actually playing a drum set? Since you play drums I want to hear what you have to say on this matter.

As for me, I got stuck on Learn to Fly on Hard. I have since figured it out but am just now starting a solo career on hard so I am sure I will get stuck just about after that.

It's semi accurate. Being a drummer for 11 years, I find it frustrating at times when the game goes out of its way to throw irregular beats at you that are impractical in real life. This is especially true with the kickdrum. The role of the kickdrum is just like that of a base drum in a classical band: Keeps the beat and keeps everyone on pase with each other. However, sometimes I feel that RB throws beats out there for the kickdrum just to make it challenging, no matter how impractical it really is.

[OpTiOnMaStA]

Thanks for the responses (to the real drummers out there).

I would like to someday learn to actually play. I have been thinking about getting one of those electronic sets for a while now. I have a while before I could do that because I am in college and going to school again next year so I am constantly in transit.

I remember reading something on IGN or Gamespot about how if you can play expert on Rock Band on the drums you can sit in front of the most basic drum set and play the songs you are able to play on Rock Band. Of course, there's more to it than that. I'm certainly not that naive.

It's good to know that I am learning something, then. I play on hard for the time being. I do understand what you guys are saying about the impractical beats with the bass drum. Learn to Fly, the song I had posted having problems with is exactly what I am talking about with this. They have it set up so that the song goes like this in the beginning:

--------------
o
--------------

I really think it should be like this:

--------------
o
--------------
--------------
o

The "o" represents a blue note. It's right in the beginning of the song. It took me forever to get this irregular beat down. It's the only song I have had to practice so far.

[ericL]

"Learn to Fly" was also the first one I had to practice on Hard. I was crusing along thinking "Hey, this is fun!" and then -- like hitting brick wall. I got by that after practicing and got a little further with some practicing but now I'm stuck on Vasoline. I have a feeling it's going to be much slower going now...

[inkjet1987]

So far I can play almost every song and pass with a high 80% (Fear the Reaper, The Who) and high 90% on the easier songs (Deep Purple, Enter Sandman). I just recently played run to the hills on hard. Completely inconceivable.

[Hanover]

Ballroom Blitz is hard...the drum rolls that appear throughout the song are hard to keep consistent. Makes me wonder if real drummers are THAT precise...


Is anyone stuck on a certain song?

I play drums in real life.. so i can pretty much do what is expected on this game..

however...
Boston's song on here is ****ing HARRRDDD...

its very jazzy..

and im also stuck on the deep purple song...
the chorus is veryyy odd with the crash,snare, kick thing that goes on there...

any suggestions?
any other songs that will give me even more trouble before i beat it on hard?

[R0ck3r]

Is anyone stuck on a certain song?

I play drums in real life.. so i can pretty much do what is expected on this game..

however...
Boston's song on here is ****ing HARRRDDD...

its very jazzy..

and im also stuck on the deep purple song...
the chorus is veryyy odd with the crash,snare, kick thing that goes on there...

any suggestions?
any other songs that will give me even more trouble before i beat it on hard?

Whats funny for me is that Foreplay/Longtime (that Boston song) is one of the few songs I have tried and beat on Hard... Anyway, as for other songs, Don't Fear the Reaper, Won't Get Fooled Again, Tom Sawyer, and one other song I can't remember... Also Vasoline.

Edit: Run to the Hills, some parts of Enter Sandman.

[Sp 027]

I'm stuck on Boston.(that damn red to green and bass part kicks my ass so hard) So I just moved on to expert where I get stuck on the hand that feeds.

[AVC808]

i like that there is a practice mode for this very reason. sure we can cheat and miss notes and save our overdrive, but then we're not really learning to play. practice mode lets us jump into the hard parts and learn the rhythm instead of going through the easy stuff repeatedly and getting frustrated deep into the song every damn time :o

[R0ck3r]

I'm stuck on Boston.(that damn red to green and bass part kicks my ass so hard) So I just moved on to expert where I get stuck on the hand that feeds.

The part where it is constantly like this?


-------------------------G--
R
-------------------------G--
R
-------------------------G--
R
-------------------------G--
R


The line being the pedal, R=Red, snare, and G=Green, the cymbal.

Anyway, just find the beat on it and you HAVE to keep it constant because its EXTREMELY hard to get back on beat with it.

[Hanover]

And YES! You have to play it THAT FAST.

(thats what I thought to myself when I first figured out how to do that part in practice mode)

:D


The part where it is constantly like this?


The line being the pedal, R=Red, snare, and G=Green, the cymbal.

Anyway, just find the beat on it and you HAVE to keep it constant because its EXTREMELY hard to get back on beat with it.

[Sp 027]

The part where it is constantly like this?


The line being the pedal, R=Red, snare, and G=Green, the cymbal.

Anyway, just find the beat on it and you HAVE to keep it constant because its EXTREMELY hard to get back on beat with it.

Yes it makes me very sad. It sucks just for the fact that its such a simple thing to do.

[e1duke]

Run to the hills is ridiculous. I haven't had the time to take it in to practice mode or anything, but after failing it 3 times, and never being anywhere close to finding the beat..im scared.

LOL same here bud, I beat WGFA, Highway Star, Cherub Rock, Tom Sawyer, and Go With the Flow (3 tries), on my first tries, but man Run to the Hills is impossible for me, thats the only thing I have been having trouble with is roles, Im not a drummer so I tend to try to do them with one hand and I start them too early. :(

[Hunter]

I beat RUN TO THE HILLS FINALLY lol took me all night plus i just beat my guitar season on expert i was too busy playing drums lol

[gpitter]

Drumming Run to the Hills on Hard is definitely on my short list of "things to stare at and hate. Passionately." I had a few stumbling blocks before it, and had to drop into practice mode to build up the beat for Next to You and others, but maintaining that Run to the Hills beat for the whole song? That's gonna take some work.

[WiredRacing]

I'm stuck on Go with the Flow right now actually after having a few issues with ballroom blitz (I just can't get the roll down consistently enough to properly focus on the bass drum).

In the end, it's really the off-note (what would this be? 1/8th or 1/16th note) bass hits without a corresponding pad hit. If the song is slow, I can do it just fine, but on these faster charts... arrrgh.

I'm trying to find some tip or something to get this down.. practice mode doesn't help because it slows things down enough that it's not a problem but when it gets back up to speed, my hands and feet might start out of sync but then end up back in sync. It's a tough habit to break. I know there's a key to doing this somewhere, I just haven't figured it out yet.

I can quickly move between the pads and even do the quick R then G w/Bass no problem.. it's just in a pattern of snares and hi-hats like..

R Y
-------------
Y

R Y
-------------
Y

I'll either en up hitting an extra yellow on the Bass hit or I'll hit the Bass on the Y (hi hat). Grrr. There must be some kind of drill to do to kill this and make the hands and feet independant at speed.

Or.. maybe this is simply why it takes more than a week to learn how to play Drums eh? :p

[Tender-Surrender]

I hate songs like Go With the Flow:

R Y
---Y-----------
---Y-----------
. Y
R Y
. Y
---Y-----------
-------------G-
R B
----------------

R Y
----------------
R Y
----------------
R Y
----------------
----------------

I'm not good at the odd beats yet, I beat the song hitting like 80% of the notes, but it felt like I only hit about 50% lol

[davidshek]

Ballroom Blitz is hard...the drum rolls that appear throughout the song are hard to keep consistent. Makes me wonder if real drummers are THAT precise...

We're the ones keeping time for the rest of the band, so yes, we are THAT precise. We have to be. Our singer has horrible rhythm by herself. She needs my beats to be regular and precise to stay on time.

You should hear our writing sessions sometimes...She'll sing something and I'll say 'Um, that's in 5/8...the rest of the song is in 4/4...was that intentional?' And her response is usually like 'What's 5/8? I'm not a drummer, I don't know these things!!'

[WiredRacing]

I don't know these things either.. edumacate us pleeease. (i.e. link posting would be awesome.. I have done some searches but haven't found anything concrete to cover my dilema. But I have improved my grip and I'm hitting rolls at slower speeds quite well.)

[CENACHAINGANG54]

Just out of curiosity how close do you think this game on drums mirrors actually playing a drum set? Since you play drums I want to hear what you have to say on this matter.

As for me, I got stuck on Learn to Fly on Hard. I have since figured it out but am just now starting a solo career on hard so I am sure I will get stuck just about after that.

I am a pro drummer and have played for over 30 years so I will answer your question. IMHO it resembles a set very well with the exception of not have a high hat control. Now let me give and even better answer. When it comes to acoustic drums the way you play feels right but you know with an acoustic set you can't turn a tom into a cymbal. However when it comes to electric drums it is very true to form. Being a drummer I have both and acoustic and an electric kit. Go back to when roland first started making electric kits they never had plastic cymbals like they do now. They used pads for everything. With my electic kit I can turn any part of my kit to any sound I want to. The only thing they need to add like I made mention to above is to add a high hat pedal for full authencity. It would be nice to be able to add pads or even plastic cymbals to the kit. If I was in charge of making the kit for Harmonix and wanted the most realistic drum experience, I would have built it this way. Red=snare and the yellow, blue, and green would be toms. I would have a seperate pad connected to the bottom for a kick drum. I would offer the choice of using the supplied kick pedal or you being able to use your own. (I would love to be able to use my DW 3000 pedal!) then I would have a pad to represent the high hat with a pedal. The high hat pad would be over the snare drum to give the whole feel of crossing your hands. Then I would have added two plastic type cymbals and one plastic ride cymbal. The cymbals could also be pads. Then the last touch would be that you could move the pads around for all of my left handed friends out there. So there is my answer I hope this gave you the answer you were looking for:D

[CENACHAINGANG54]

Is anyone stuck on a certain song?

I play drums in real life.. so i can pretty much do what is expected on this game..

however...
Boston's song on here is ****ing HARRRDDD...

its very jazzy..

and im also stuck on the deep purple song...
the chorus is veryyy odd with the crash,snare, kick thing that goes on there...

any suggestions?
any other songs that will give me even more trouble before i beat it on hard?

I find won't get fooled again to be very hard on hard and expert. Yet I can beat run through the hills with no less than a 95%
on expert

[Loxguard]

I cannot beat that damn Boston song on Hard no matter how many times I try.

The stupid part with the snare to kick and symbol x 10 is impossible. I can't figure out the timing at all. It is like the window of time to successfully hit the snare (red pad) is like 0.00000005 seconds on that part. I can't even get it to hit correctly if I ignore the kick drum and symbol.

I'm getting frustrated on that one, for realz.

The very last section of The Reaper was a pain in the ass too. It sucks that the whole song is a piece of cake, except for the last 5%.

[CENACHAINGANG54]

It's semi accurate. Being a drummer for 11 years, I find it frustrating at times when the game goes out of its way to throw irregular beats at you that are impractical in real life. This is especially true with the kickdrum. The role of the kickdrum is just like that of a base drum in a classical band: Keeps the beat and keeps everyone on pase with each other. However, sometimes I feel that RB throws beats out there for the kickdrum just to make it challenging, no matter how impractical it really is.


I agree with you on the kick beats!!

[davidshek]

Then I would have added two plastic type cymbals and one plastic ride cymbal. The cymbals could also be pads. Then the last touch would be that you could move the pads around for all of my left handed friends out there. So there is my answer I hope this gave you the answer you were looking for:D

I mostly agree with you, but I know exactly what the limitation was. In developing the drum charts for the game, they stuck with the same 5-note charts that were used for guitar and bass in the earlier games. Since 1 of those notes is the kick, that only left 4 more for hi-hat, snare, (2 or 3) toms, ride, and crash. Notice that if you do the math there, it comes up quite short.

I'd love to see a fuller kit in future versions of RB, but they'd have to step up the difficulty in the drum charts to do that by going to more than 5 notes.

People have talked about creating their own mod kits using other brand electronic pads, using line splitters to have like 2 crash pads that are both "green", the 1st tom and hi-hat pads both "yellow", etc. It would be cool to see if someone actually gets that to work.

[Bakkster]

I need to get past the end of The Reaper, and I will be on the last set on hard. Time to save overdrive ;)


The part where it is constantly like this?

The line being the pedal, R=Red, snare, and G=Green, the cymbal.

Anyway, just find the beat on it and you HAVE to keep it constant because its EXTREMELY hard to get back on beat with it.

It's actually triplets, so you need to learn to gallop a little bit. My problem was that I was rushing, so I practiced and fixed it.

-------------------------G--
R

-------------------------G--
R

-------------------------G--
R

-------------------------G--
R

[army_of_me]

It's semi accurate. Being a drummer for 11 years, I find it frustrating at times when the game goes out of its way to throw irregular beats at you that are impractical in real life. This is especially true with the kickdrum. The role of the kickdrum is just like that of a base drum in a classical band: Keeps the beat and keeps everyone on pase with each other. However, sometimes I feel that RB throws beats out there for the kickdrum just to make it challenging, no matter how impractical it really is.

What's an example of this? I'm playing through Expert right now (I only have the last 2 songs to beat) and I haven't noticed innacurate bass drum notes. In fact, with the songs that I'm familiar with, they're dead-on.

[davidshek]

The stupid part with the snare to kick and symbol x 10 is impossible. I can't figure out the timing at all. It is like the window of time to successfully hit the snare (red pad) is like 0.00000005 seconds on that part. I can't even get it to hit correctly if I ignore the kick drum and symbol.

I used to play this song with a band I was in several years ago. It took me several weeks of practicing multiple hours a day to get the whole song down to a point where I was happy with my reproduction of Sib Hashian's original line.

I find it particularly hilarious that people are complaining about not being able to play this song on Hard and Expert after the game has been out barely a week.

The moral of the story here is: Give it time, people. Practice. Drums ain't easy (real or game). The song isn't called "Long Time" for no reason! :D

[Struct09]

I'm not a drummer, but I've been playing drums on hard. The only song that gave me real problems so far was Vasoline, but after completing that song something seemed to click. I just have the final two songs to finish up on hard mode now (haven't tried them yet).

[davidshek]

It's actually triplets, so you need to learn to gallop a little bit. My problem was that I was rushing, so I practiced and fixed it.

Exactly. What you're seeing on Hard are the triplets with the middle hit removed.

In other words, in the real drum line, the pattern is R-R-G, R-R-G, R-R-G, R-R-G.

On Hard, what you're really seeing is R- -G, R- -G, R- -G, R- -G.

It's difficult getting used to playing only the first and third hits of those triplets, that's what Bakkster called 'galloping'.

Nicko McBrain (Iron Maiden) uses this feel quite a bit in his drum beats. See "The Trooper", "Run to the Hills", "Wasted Years", "Powerslave", etc.

[Hanover]

When encountering something like this:

------
xx
------
xx
------

What you do is raise your drumsticks to the beat of the music. It gives your arms something to do to the beat of the music...and since you're RAISING your arms, you wont accidentally hit the drum again when you press the bass pedal.

I've found that helpful for these patterns too:

----x--
------- <- raise your sticks to this beat

and

------- < -raise your sticks to this beat
----x--

this means keeping your sticks loose and let them bounce up on the beat. :)



I'm stuck on Go with the Flow right now actually after having a few issues with ballroom blitz (I just can't get the roll down consistently enough to properly focus on the bass drum).

In the end, it's really the off-note (what would this be? 1/8th or 1/16th note) bass hits without a corresponding pad hit. If the song is slow, I can do it just fine, but on these faster charts... arrrgh.

I'm trying to find some tip or something to get this down.. practice mode doesn't help because it slows things down enough that it's not a problem but when it gets back up to speed, my hands and feet might start out of sync but then end up back in sync. It's a tough habit to break. I know there's a key to doing this somewhere, I just haven't figured it out yet.

I can quickly move between the pads and even do the quick R then G w/Bass no problem.. it's just in a pattern of snares and hi-hats like..

R Y
-------------
Y

R Y
-------------
Y

I'll either en up hitting an extra yellow on the Bass hit or I'll hit the Bass on the Y (hi hat). Grrr. There must be some kind of drill to do to kill this and make the hands and feet independant at speed.

Or.. maybe this is simply why it takes more than a week to learn how to play Drums eh? :p

[OpTiOnMaStA]

Awesome thread guys. There's a ton of information to help non drummers in here. Thanks.

[obersmith]

When encountering something like this:

------
xx
------
xx
------

What you do is raise your drumsticks to the beat of the music. It gives your arms something to do to the beat of the music...and since you're RAISING your arms, you wont accidentally hit the drum again when you press the bass pedal.

I've found that helpful for these patterns too:

----x--
------- <- raise your sticks to this beat

and

------- < -raise your sticks to this beat
----x--

this means keeping your sticks loose and let them bounce up on the beat. :)

Your first example is exactly what I'm having problems with, except the double notes are on the downbeat and the kick is on the upbeat. No matter what I do, I can't get my foot to consistently hit on the upbeat, it keeps gravitating towards the down. Eventually I just started skipping the kick to get through the song. Had this problem with "Wave of Mutiliation" and "Here it Goes Again".

I can do okay in practice at about 70% speed, but once I go faster I can't seem to correct myself.

[ShoeKyou]

I just finished my medium solo tour this morning, and since I've been playing a lot of hard songs in BWT I decided to embark on an expert tour. I got through the first tier, but I know for a fact that very soon I will hit a song I just can't finish.

I can't wait to conquer it and the others that follow.

[WiredRacing]

Yeah I've found that raising my arms works, but again it's on the fast stuff i just can't get past it.. it has to be a thought process thing I need to find some way to break this (seemingly) natural habit. Part of it is probably because I don't know the songs too well so I don't hear the bass line coming in my head.

Foot-eye coordination is a little new to m... no wait.. I can play DDR 8 (and some 9) step songs... Hrm. :)

Usually if there's a long sequence I can program myself during it to separate the sounds and 3/4s thorugh I'll get it... so yeah.. probably just an issue of not having enough practice.. but there must be some kind of drill you can do to break this habit..

Anyhow I guess I just need to worry when I'm not improving anymore. :) At least I'm much more consistent with double-bass hits..

[ZkDotNet]

Yeah I've found that raising my arms works, but again it's on the fast stuff i just can't get past it.. it has to be a thought process thing I need to find some way to break this (seemingly) natural habit. Part of it is probably because I don't know the songs too well so I don't hear the bass line coming in my head.

Foot-eye coordination is a little new to m... no wait.. I can play DDR 8 (and some 9) step songs... Hrm. :)

Usually if there's a long sequence I can program myself during it to separate the sounds and 3/4s thorugh I'll get it... so yeah.. probably just an issue of not having enough practice.. but there must be some kind of drill you can do to break this habit..

Anyhow I guess I just need to worry when I'm not improving anymore. :) At least I'm much more consistent with double-bass hits..
Even though you say slower practice won't help, because you can already do it... that's not entirely true. Practicing it slow will help develop the muscle memory needed to do it at faster speeds. That is the drill you're asking for. Start it at the slowest speed, and go faster as you ace it. Mess up? Take it back a notch in speed and build it back up.

[boboette]

I found it interesting that I have more problems with yellow drum & kick, because of the similar colors. So for example, a rapid 3 note
---------------- (kick)
----------------
x (yellow drum)

I tend to either kick all of them or hit all of them, but I don't have that problem with other color drums. I guess my brain interprets them as the same thing.

I know it sounds stupid but reminds of a psychology experiment that the participants are supposed to respond to PINK and GREEN on the monitor (eg when they see PINK, hit the pink button). They are really accurate until the psychologist made "PINK" font green, and "GREEN" font pink.

I was furious at myself yesterday but found it funny at the same time.

[Bakkster]

Your first example is exactly what I'm having problems with, except the double notes are on the downbeat and the kick is on the upbeat. No matter what I do, I can't get my foot to consistently hit on the upbeat, it keeps gravitating towards the down. Eventually I just started skipping the kick to get through the song. Had this problem with "Wave of Mutiliation" and "Here it Goes Again".

I can do okay in practice at about 70% speed, but once I go faster I can't seem to correct myself.

I like to treat lifting my sticks-feet as part of the beat. So the lift will be on beats 1 and 3 with the hits on beats 2 and 4. Just work your way to becoming more comfortable with this type of pattern. My favorite song for practicing (and playing) this kind of beat is Learn To Fly. Something like this:

&
4 . . B
&--------
3 R . B
&--------
2 . . B
&
1-R---B--

It alternates the kick being on and off the beat, which really helped me out. When I figured out this beat a lot of my problems went away. Now I've got new tough spots...

[WiredRacing]

Well I dunno tha tI said it wouldn't help.. just that when I slow it down, I can do it because my brain isn't forcing my hand or foot to pause a pattern that feels "off" and shift into a matched pattern where my foot and wrist go down at the same time).

My concern with the practice for muscle memory is I'm not sure that I should simply be recording the song in my head for playback. It would seem to me all I'd be doing is getting down one songs pattern just to get held up on a different pattern and have to go practice it until I knew it like the back of my hand.

My guess is any drummer with experience wouldn't really have to do that to pull it off... The question is, how do you get that experience? Through practice drills? or just straight up playing experience that your body (and brain) eventually learns how to split the percussion into it's individual sounds.

Hrmm.. thinking about it now when I started with Guitar Hero, it was a bit of an uphill battle, but I was at expert within a couple weeks (though I never could finish the last two on expert (I wasn't alt-picking then).. then I compare then to now with GH3 and now if I know the song (and the note chart is good), I almost know exactly what buttons I will have to press to play each section. It's less a hand-eye thing and almost now a hand-ear thing.

I dunno, I can't imagine anything more boring that to sit in practice mode doing a section over and over again (which i think is ultimately why I've never really picked up an instrument (short of guitar and replicating through tabs..which is obviously a shortcut)) I just don't think I have the 'grind' in me.. which is what makes these games so great.

Anyhow I guess I was hoping for some kind of non-game running drill I could do at my desk or .. something. I dunno. :) I guess in the end I'd have more fun just playing the songs I can play, enjoy playing the full song but tightening up my technique and stuff... the other stuff, I have to assume, will come.

[WiredRacing]

How the hell do you do "One and Two and Three and Four" on songs like "And Justice for All"? All those 1/8th or 1/16th (or whatever they are) notes come and i just stop counting, I can't keep up. :) Well I mean I guess they're all sub-division.. but I think when you can barely say "one" and "two" because the bar is so short, how the heck do to fit an "and" in your head between 'em?

Interestingly enough though I can get through And Justice just fine on Hard but still have a ***** of a time with The Queens of the Stone Age track.

That said, I'll totally try it on a song that I can say those things in my head. :) Thanks for the tip.

[Bakkster]

Anyhow I guess I was hoping for some kind of non-game running drill I could do at my desk or .. something. I dunno. :) I guess in the end I'd have more fun just playing the songs I can play, enjoy playing the full song but tightening up my technique and stuff... the other stuff, I have to assume, will come.

Big thing is to learn your basic beats by heart (hi-hat on 1/8th notes, kick on 1 and 3 and snare on 2 and 4). Then add to those patterns. If you can play even a 2-beat phrase alone, your mind will at least be able to comprehend it when you play it in game.

Failing that, pick songs with non-standard beats and make them part of your regular gaming sessions. I love to play Learn To Fly, and the techniques I mastered there carry over to other songs. Just keep playing, and don't let yourself get sloppy. Eventually each beat will become natural to you.

[Bakkster]

How the hell do you do "One and Two and Three and Four" on songs like "And Justice for All"? All those 1/8th or 1/16th (or whatever they are) notes come and i just stop counting, I can't keep up. :) Well I mean I guess they're all sub-division.. but I think when you can barely say "one" and "two" because the bar is so short, how the heck do to fit an "and" in your head between 'em?

I assume you mean for rolls? I play with my right hand at half the speed, then add my left hand at the same speed in between. As far as actually saying the beat name (1e&a2e&a...) your mind will eventually do that automatically. Just keep track of where you are.

[davidshek]

My guess is any drummer with experience wouldn't really have to do that to pull it off... The question is, how do you get that experience? Through practice drills? or just straight up playing experience that your body (and brain) eventually learns how to split the percussion into it's individual sounds.

(snip)

Anyhow I guess I was hoping for some kind of non-game running drill I could do at my desk or .. something. I dunno. :) I guess in the end I'd have more fun just playing the songs I can play, enjoy playing the full song but tightening up my technique and stuff... the other stuff, I have to assume, will come.

Through practice and straight up playing experience, you got it exactly. It's not so much hand-eye or hand-ear or foot-eye coordination. Reading drum sheet music (or sightreading RB charts) is hand-hand-eye-ear-foot coordination :) That's what makes drums so much fun!

To answer your 2nd part, wanna practice at your desk? Put some headphones on, stick out your index finger like you're pointing at something, and pretend it's a drumstick. While you're listening to music, try to play along on your desk with your 2 drumstick-fingers and right foot. It doesn't matter if you get it right. Just get your body used to coordinating those 3 limbs while listening to a beat.

I do this constantly, in the car on the steering wheel, while watching TV, even sometimes while I'm typing, I'll be tapping on the keyboard to the beat of whatever song I'm listening to. It drives my coworkers and girlfriend nuts :)

[Micker]

Do you guys(real drummers mainly), think that expert is easier then Hard?? I was just fooling around with medium on my broken drum set and noticed that you can't play the song really. Its like you have to miss beats, and have to drum by watching the notes instead of going by feel and sound.

[army_of_me]

Do you guys(real drummers mainly), think that expert is easier then Hard?? I was just fooling around with medium on my broken drum set and noticed that you can't play the song really. Its like you have to miss beats, and have to drum by watching the notes instead of going by feel and sound.

Vasoline was like that for me. On Hard they broke out the rhythm really weird and I barely passed it, but on Expert I breezed through it (I've heard it on the radio a zillion times, so the beat's pretty familiar to me).

[davidshek]

Do you guys(real drummers mainly), think that expert is easier then Hard?? I was just fooling around with medium on my broken drum set and noticed that you can't play the song really. Its like you have to miss beats, and have to drum by watching the notes instead of going by feel and sound.

Yup. The first night I tried this, I first played a few songs on Hard and was messing up all over the place...so I said WTF and tried Medium and almost did worse.

After another even bigger WTF, I tried Expert and was getting 5*'s all over the place.

[HPLabonte]

yeah, the missing beats really throw me off. on both drums and guitar, it's tough for me to go back to easy/medium on guitar, and i really cant get the hang of the drums on hard.

[davidshek]

the real question and thing i want for download that most people havent mentioned is some sort of practice mode or something to teach people good drum fill skills or something, Id gladly pay for something like that.

again Id pay for this!

You mean something like this?

http://musicbooksplus.com/beginning-drums-p-7697.html

:cool:

Grab your sticks and practice on a pillow, a tabletop, your knees, whatever. Or put in the DVD and practice it on your RB kit.

[thegreatpablo]

Part of what real musicians go through and what this game TRIES to replicate is learning this slowly and in a logical manner.

If you have never drummed or played an instrument in your life, if you go from Easy directly to Hard and skip Medium, you're going to miss out on a lot of drum beats and patterns that are introduced during songs in Medium.

I don't have any solid examples, but if you play through songs, you'll notice that there may be a complicated drum rhythm, but if you're playing on Medium, you only have to do it once every other measure, rather than once every measure (or even twice a measure) like the song actually does. The game is slowly introducing you to these concepts and as you go along, they will get more and more complicated.

Someone mentioned practicing not necessarily helping because you are memorizing a single song and you might just get stuck on the next one, that's not the right approach. While you're practicing a song, you develop the muscle memory and visual recognition necessary to be able to play those repeated patterns in later songs. There are a lot of patterns used, and sometimes varied, throughout multiple songs that this will help with.

It's worth it to practice. I think one of the BEST songs to practice coordination and learning to play the bass drum separately from what your right and left hand are doing is Vaseline on hard.

[R0ck3r]

I need to get past the end of The Reaper, and I will be on the last set on hard. Time to save overdrive ;)



It's actually triplets, so you need to learn to gallop a little bit. My problem was that I was rushing, so I practiced and fixed it.

I don't need help with it, it's one of the few songs I can have tried and beat on hard. I was just throwing that out to help some people.

Edit: To help some people with the bass pedal, I have my foot pressed down on it all the time and lift it to hit the note. Of course you have to lift your foot up early to hit the note so when a note comes like this.

. Y
----------------------
. Y
----------------------
. Y
----------------------


You lift up the pedal right when you hit the pad and bring it back down and thats pretty much the perfect timing for hitting the bass note behind it.

[Rogue42]

My personal road blocks on hard are:

1.) Foreplay/Long Time - Well, just Foreplay, I can't for the life of me get that fast hat rhythm in time with the kicks.
2.) Run to the Hills - Crazy R/R/R/ /R/R/Y/ . I'd be better off if I could train myself to start those rolls with my right hand instead of my left.
3.) Tom Sawyer - The kicks are in weird places, and the quick double/triple/quintuple sets just throw me off the beat, for some reason.
4.) Next to You - No real focus here. I just can't do this at my skill level.

These I will either fail before anyone can get overdrive to save me (Foreplay) or I'll just fail out three times (Run to the Hills, etc.)

Everything else I can either pass no problem by myself, or can be passed with a little help from other band members in BWT through a couple timely overdrives or straight-up saves.

For the time being, however, I really enjoy the challenge that hard is presenting, and even expert on a few of the "easier" charts. For the playlists that do have these tricky sets, we'll probably wind up cheating a bit and playing drum set by committee (one on pads, one on kick) until I can actually get these charts under my feet, so to speak. 8-)

Plus, it gets yet another person involved with the band. 8-)

[Bathel]

I too am a drummer in real life. I think the most frustrating thing to me is that when I amd playing a song, any song, therethere are certain beats that HAVE to be in inside of it, i.e. the beginning to "Take the Money and Run" by Steve Miller. But if you were to record me doing the same song four times in a row none of them would be EXACTLY the same. And I don't just mean fills, I mean everything from the snare to the bass and so on...I do know some studio drummers that do exatly that, play a song exactly the same way everytime, but I have always been more of a live band member than in studio.

Anyway, Rock Band is asking to do exactly that, play the song the same way everytime. It just doesn't feel right to me.

As far as picking up the basics of drumming, yeah, you could proably play some very basic beats after playing this game for a while. Either way, the games is awesome and I will contine to play and get better at all aspects of the game, except for that whole singing thing. I can't even do-wap-ditty with my voice.

[airbakin]

Drummer here,

I've beaten every original song on here for both hard and expert difficulty EXCEPT for "won't get fooled again."

Has anybody beaten this 10 minute death fill marathon yet? What's your secret? Especially for the jam sessions on Hard or Expert, how does one survive it???

I'd say I'm solid for all the other parts, and I've tried everything to get past it. Why do I have to carbon copy Keith Moon's drum rants RB God WHY!?!?!?!?!?

Thanks!

[nonrate]

There are several factors to the game when comparing it to real drums that should be considered:

1) Because there are only four pads, the brain of a real drummer needs to re-map where certain drum components would be. Some first time players may actually have an easier time at some songs because they are naturally following the scale, while drummers that know one of the songs will have to shift from "being in the groove" to consciously looking for the next pad to hit. I have found this cause some confusion, but it dissipates quickly, and is pretty much impossible to avoid if you want to keep the game under a thousand bucks

2) The triggers themselves are not 100% accurate. Again, because of the costs involved, I'm not surprised my bass drum does not faithfully register a bass drum hit every time. However, I am surprised it's as good as it is. When playing real drums, you will achieve fast bass drum beats, e.g. two notes real close to each other, by taking advantage of the "recoil" of force. Basically, on a real kick pedal striking a real bass drum, the "bounce back" that occurs allows you to hit two rapid notes in succession without having to pound your foot twice, it's a feel you need to get used to. This feel does not translate very well in the rock band pedal.

3) The snare drum position makes some songs fills harder than in real life. Most drummers have the snare drum directly in front of them. It's the foundation of the kit. Because the rock band setup has it to the left (for right hand players), certain fills are actually harder to pull off than on a real kit. However, this is unavoidable for the kit setup, and the setup based on the four pads seems the best arrangement to me they could have implemented.

4) Perfection is key in RB! Real drummers playing cover songs have much more liberty to screw up without screwing up... that is, in RB, you have to hit every note perfectly, there is no freedom to improvise. Just about every drummer I know will improvise. Once you get to know a RB song well on drums, go to youtube and look for some band covering it and listen to how different that drummer plays the song. However, before RB you'd never know it, and as long as that drumers patterns are similar enough to the real song, it's really not screwing up. Because RB is a game and not a performance, this makes sense. However, if RB jam edition came out, you might expect to see more flexibility with how parts are played constructed, bit that technical ability is years in the future.

That's a few things I've noticed so far. Have fun

[des]

I am a pro drummer and have played for over 30 years so I will answer your question. IMHO it resembles a set very well with the exception of not have a high hat control. Now let me give and even better answer. When it comes to acoustic drums the way you play feels right but you know with an acoustic set you can't turn a tom into a cymbal. However when it comes to electric drums it is very true to form. Being a drummer I have both and acoustic and an electric kit. Go back to when roland first started making electric kits they never had plastic cymbals like they do now. They used pads for everything. With my electic kit I can turn any part of my kit to any sound I want to. The only thing they need to add like I made mention to above is to add a high hat pedal for full authencity. It would be nice to be able to add pads or even plastic cymbals to the kit. If I was in charge of making the kit for Harmonix and wanted the most realistic drum experience, I would have built it this way. Red=snare and the yellow, blue, and green would be toms. I would have a seperate pad connected to the bottom for a kick drum. I would offer the choice of using the supplied kick pedal or you being able to use your own. (I would love to be able to use my DW 3000 pedal!) then I would have a pad to represent the high hat with a pedal. The high hat pad would be over the snare drum to give the whole feel of crossing your hands. Then I would have added two plastic type cymbals and one plastic ride cymbal. The cymbals could also be pads. Then the last touch would be that you could move the pads around for all of my left handed friends out there. So there is my answer I hope this gave you the answer you were looking for:D i dont think they could make equipment strong enough to be added like your saying. i wish i could have a double pedal for some real drumming. i dont even play the metallica songs because im not using double pedals and reall it makes it harder and more confusing to play for me.

[des]

There are several factors to the game when comparing it to real drums that should be considered:

1) Because there are only four pads, the brain of a real drummer needs to re-map where certain drum components would be. Some first time players may actually have an easier time at some songs because they are naturally following the scale, while drummers that know one of the songs will have to shift from "being in the groove" to consciously looking for the next pad to hit. I have found this cause some confusion, but it dissipates quickly, and is pretty much impossible to avoid if you want to keep the game under a thousand bucks

2) The triggers themselves are not 100% accurate. Again, because of the costs involved, I'm not surprised my bass drum does not faithfully register a bass drum hit every time. However, I am surprised it's as good as it is. When playing real drums, you will achieve fast bass drum beats, e.g. two notes real close to each other, by taking advantage of the "recoil" of force. Basically, on a real kick pedal striking a real bass drum, the "bounce back" that occurs allows you to hit two rapid notes in succession without having to pound your foot twice, it's a feel you need to get used to. This feel does not translate very well in the rock band pedal.

3) The snare drum position makes some songs fills harder than in real life. Most drummers have the snare drum directly in front of them. It's the foundation of the kit. Because the rock band setup has it to the left (for right hand players), certain fills are actually harder to pull off than on a real kit. However, this is unavoidable for the kit setup, and the setup based on the four pads seems the best arrangement to me they could have implemented.

4) Perfection is key in RB! Real drummers playing cover songs have much more liberty to screw up without screwing up... that is, in RB, you have to hit every note perfectly, there is no freedom to improvise. Just about every drummer I know will improvise. Once you get to know a RB song well on drums, go to youtube and look for some band covering it and listen to how different that drummer plays the song. However, before RB you'd never know it, and as long as that drumers patterns are similar enough to the real song, it's really not screwing up. Because RB is a game and not a performance, this makes sense. However, if RB jam edition came out, you might expect to see more flexibility with how parts are played constructed, bit that technical ability is years in the future.

That's a few things I've noticed so far. Have fun everything you just said is 100% right and thanks because i dont have to say it now. just to add some of my input.... i hate the last pad position because its the cymbal and all cymbals are high and not low and to the right. i often miss this if i dont peek at it before i hit it. i can play my real drums with my eyes closed because i know where everything is exactly. now about the pedal. it sux IMO and it is the only thing that hurts me on expert and some hard songs. i have to put something heavy behind my kit so it doesnt slide away because it requires ''heels down;; with alot of punch to hit double notes in concession. i play ''heels up'' in real life and on real technical song maybe ''heels down'' . but even though it has its flaws, its fun to jam online with dudes and it at time feels like im really playing the drums. im getting used to what needs to be done by looking at it the color and not having to really focus on them.(if that make any sense) the pedal is my only set back.

[dimasputnik]

I cannot beat that damn Boston song on Hard no matter how many times I try.

The stupid part with the snare to kick and symbol x 10 is impossible. I can't figure out the timing at all. It is like the window of time to successfully hit the snare (red pad) is like 0.00000005 seconds on that part. I can't even get it to hit correctly if I ignore the kick drum and symbol.

I'm getting frustrated on that one, for realz.

The very last section of The Reaper was a pain in the ass too. It sucks that the whole song is a piece of cake, except for the last 5%.

I coudn't have said it any better myself. I feel exactly the same way. None of the other songs up to this have given me this much trouble. I have spent so much time in practice mode at every speed. But, at full speed I can't get more than 70% or so of the beginning part.

I even started messing with the calibration again like as if all of a sudden that was the problem.

[Wanny]

Boston is easy on Hard. But Next to you, deep purple and run to the hills are just crazy..
I'm like 28/61 so far on expert, but I'm not stuck, I played a lot online recently. Can do And justice for all on expert too.

Btw i never played drums in my life before. I just have the beat, that's it.

[TheHip41]

Exactly. What you're seeing on Hard are the triplets with the middle hit removed.

In other words, in the real drum line, the pattern is R-R-G, R-R-G, R-R-G, R-R-G.

On Hard, what you're really seeing is R- -G, R- -G, R- -G, R- -G.

It's difficult getting used to playing only the first and third hits of those triplets, that's what Bakkster called 'galloping'.

Nicko McBrain (Iron Maiden) uses this feel quite a bit in his drum beats. See "The Trooper", "Run to the Hills", "Wasted Years", "Powerslave", etc.


i was going to post the same thing, but I think it's x-R-G, x-R-G, x-R-G

I think they drop the first note of the triplet

Honest though, them dropping that note made it much harder for me to keep the beat going.

[v0mitr0n]

IMO

If you can play the songs on HARD, I would move right to EXPERT and try the solo tour. EXPERT will give you the most "realistic" beat patterns that feel "natural" as opposed to leaving a kick drum and/or high-hat out here and there on HARD.

Also, if you are familiar with the beat patterns for the songs, obviously you'll do much better. So I advise listening to the tunes multiple times and get to know the kick snare patterns, fills next .. then tough sections practice over and over.

I can hit 98% on Enter Sandman (EXPERT), but Don't Fear The Reaper is just kicking my ass .. mainly because I am not familiar with the wack drum roll section (and I don't feel like practicing it .. hehe)

[NattyLight]

It's semi accurate. Being a drummer for 11 years, I find it frustrating at times when the game goes out of its way to throw irregular beats at you that are impractical in real life. This is especially true with the kickdrum. The role of the kickdrum is just like that of a base drum in a classical band: Keeps the beat and keeps everyone on pase with each other. However, sometimes I feel that RB throws beats out there for the kickdrum just to make it challenging, no matter how impractical it really is.

Are you serious? How is RB throwing out kick beats to make it practical when THOSE BEATS ARE IN THE ACTUAL SONG.

[SSPWOLF]

Glad I'm not the only one who thought "Learn To Fly" was extremely odd. I'm a drummer in real life, but for the most part I've been playing guitar in RB. If I'm playing with other people, I'll usually hop on the drums.

I've played through a few songs on expert, some on hard, I've found that almost can't play on Medium unless I've played the song half a dozen times. (too many notes missing, my brain refuses to omit them)

So.. last night... Learn To Fly came up. I (stupidly) assumed it would be easy. At the end of the song I'm looking at an 84% on hard, and I'm saying "WTF was that?"

So yeah, don't feel bad.. 21 years of playing drums IRL and that song had me sweating all the way through.

Run to the hills is ri-damn-diculous. Tried it on expert just to see what the fuss was about. I got about half-way through and basically just "klutzed out" cause it was more work trying to fudge my way through it than it would be to just go into practice mode and learn it.


One big tip I can give... if you are relaxed you are faster. That's why I failed out on Run To The Hills.. there's too much going on and without any practice you'll get tensed up and start trying to play hard and fast. Practice it, get good, get relaxed, and it should be a lot easier.

And don't get me started on Vasoline. It came up the other night and I didn't have the slightest clue what the note chart (on hard) wanted me to do. I just stared at it like "WTF does that mean?" Obviously that's another one that you've got to practice, because trying to sight read it three times in a row netted me three failures in a row.

[Sigafoos]

A question about rolls... when do you have to start doing them? I used to drum a bit in my HS band, so I can physically do them, but it seems like when I try I fail. It seems like on Cherub Rock on Hard, for instance, that rolling gives too many hits and I should just use both sticks and drum quickly. Is this the case or do I just need to practice my rolls more?

Well, either way I need to practice them more. My real question is whether I can blame failing on the song or on me :)

[davidshek]

A question about rolls... when do you have to start doing them? I used to drum a bit in my HS band, so I can physically do them, but it seems like when I try I fail. It seems like on Cherub Rock on Hard, for instance, that rolling gives too many hits and I should just use both sticks and drum quickly. Is this the case or do I just need to practice my rolls more?

Well, either way I need to practice them more. My real question is whether I can blame failing on the song or on me :)

There aren't any songs in RB that require a real 'drum roll'. Yes, Chrub Rock has a snare roll in the beginning of the real song, but in RB, it's not. It's just a bunch of quick hits in succession.

[Wanny1]

well for short rolls I only use one hand and for long rolls I use both my hands. I find myself more precise with one hand. If you played boston on expert, there's a roll on the beginning then there's a roll + foot. Well I use both hands on the first roll and only one hand for roll + foot (or my brain become messed up)

My little tip..

[TheHip41]

Do you guys(real drummers mainly), think that expert is easier then Hard?? I was just fooling around with medium on my broken drum set and noticed that you can't play the song really. Its like you have to miss beats, and have to drum by watching the notes instead of going by feel and sound.


I play drums IRL, and I regularly play Tom Sawyer. I know I do not hit the fills perfectly, but no one has ever complained. Being in a cover band, we rocked this one pretty good.

Anyhow, on sightread, passed Tom Sawyer easily on hard, and failed somewhere in the middle on expert.

Now, this isn't a conclusive sample size, but, I feel that if you have to play less notes, there are less failing points.

[hedburnr]

ive been playin drums for 10 years, but playing this game can be frustratingly hard on drums sometimes. i find it much easier to play on expert overall, tho i havent yet beat it on expert, since i assumed i should play through hard to get a feel for it. now i am stuck on run to the hills and am amazed at how much harder the song is on HARD than it is on expert. they cut out half of the bass pedal, but left the half in the song that actually succeeds at throwing you off the beat rather than helping. and the rolls are also trimmed so that youre bound to hit extra notes that ARE there, but arent (if you know what i mean).

its infuriating. i had no problems with any other songs on hard that took me more than a try or two to get past (and wont get fooled again is a blast to play, whule boston's foreplay is the equivalent of running straight into oncoming traffic. took me three tries before i got the red -green-bass part)

so anyway, playing drums on Rock band feels like you are playing a rudimentary beat, but a non drummer who is great at this game behind a real set might be lost trying to reconfigure where to move their arms, since placement is COMPLETELY different IMO)

and i miss my snare being in front of me and my hi hat to my left. :(

[MrMetts]

I barely made it through Run To The Hills on Hard. Heh, it's actually the only song I have less than a 4 star score when all the other songs I have a 5 star now. Right now I'm stuck on Don't Fear The Reaper on Expert.. my weakness it definately triple bass kicks especially when they're fast and constant throughout. My foot just doesn't want to lift up everytime and I have to struggle and almost have a heart attack. It took me a while to get past Foreplay but once I got past that.. Longtime was a breeze. I actually ended up getting a 5 star.

[o0MeTaL0o]

Run To The Hills, Next TO You, and Outside have me totally crushed atm.

[Conner_Malvecino]

and i miss my snare being in front of me and my hi hat to my left. :(

Perhaps someday, the drums will be configurable to the point that we'll need heavyduty hardware stands for mounting purposes. The line between a real drummer and a RB drummer will be absolutely blurred at that point.

[espher]

Next To You was the only one to totally cockblock me.

[License_To_Bill]

I can't do Run to the Hills to the point where I would pay money for a patch to lessen the pain. Don't Fear the Reaper ending B and C are easy if you just ignore that one note that they add. Just don't hit it. You won't fail.

[keith921]

I can't beat Don't Fear The Reaper on Hard. Kinda annoys me cause I can do all the songs in the tier after it.

[DrEvyl666]

I think what bugged me about the Boston song is that they broke the beat out in a way that is impossible to play the way it was originally played... And what I'm talking about is the intro section...

The first beat you're doing there is a triplet on the high hat, which switches to the ride with a kick on the beat. Then it goes to the snare with crashes... Now the most efficient way to play that is to alternate each crash between the left and right hand... but the way the drum pads are set up makes this extremely difficult if not impossible.

So instead of doing R-L-R-L-R-L-R real easily, you have to do R-L-L-R-L-L-R-L-L-R to do it, and with no bounce on the pads, that's a realy PITA.

I finally just switched to doing it on hard, and finished it without much trouble... here's my video of it, complete with a couple of nice train wrecks and some stupid mistakes... LOL And yes, I am singing along with about half of the song.... the next video I'm gonna do is me drumming and singing "Creep" at the same time.

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