Popular Vs. Relatively Unknown

[newwaytodie]

This is somewhat of a continuation of a thread that got off topic.

The debate was that popular music will always be more fun to play than music that you have not heard as much of.

Of course I could not agree more, as I know that playing a song that you have heard a billion times on the radio just gets boring. The great thing about the guitar hero games was that HMX picked songs from big name artists that received less airtime.

Example: Heart Shaped Box in favor of Smells Like Teen Spirit

EVERYONE has heard Smells Like Teen Spirit. Your mom, your grandma, your dog... everyone. And if you're buying a game called "Guitar Hero" then you have probably heard it more times than is humanly reccomended.

When you go and see a concert, are you more excited to see your favorite band play a song from their new album that you have already heard way too much on the radio? Or would you get more excited when they come in to the first notes of a song that they have not played in years?

I know I'd go with the latter.

[freakonate]

I'd go with the latter also.

Because when you go to a concert you usually know what to expect (depending on the band of course) I mostly mean large concerts.

It's refreshing and it puts a huge grin on my face when a band throws in that rare gem that was your own, personal favorite for so long and instead of hearing the same old set of songs again and again the band decided to mix things up a bit which makes for a way cooler experience as far as I'm concerned.

[GrayInvisible]

I remember reading about Gene Chandler, creator of the song "Duke Of Earl". At his concerts he would always play this song last so people would hear all the other songs first. I think Lynryd Skynrd did this with Free Bird.

I though heart shaped box was a pretty boring son though, but you're right about that. I say a mix of popular bands popular songs, and popular bands less known, but still good songs.

[sushi111]

I say let them go for songs that are pretty popular (In Bloom) instead of songs that everyone has heard too much (SLTS).

But I dont mind them using a popular song unless:

a) Its a bad song altogether compared to the bands other songs (ex. Creep by Radiohead)

b) Dosent work in the game very well (ex. Dont wanna miss a thing by Aerosmith)

What they are doing right now is great. Wont Get Fooled Again might not be as popular as My generation, but it works much better for this game. However Dont fear the Reaper is the most popular BOC song, and they went for it because it works very well in the game.

The only song Im dissapointed by is Rockaway Beach. Like its a decent song, but in that case they should have went for the more obvious one that would have worked better in the game anyways (Blitzkreig Bop)

[Teh_Jakester]

Nice joke about Blitzkeig Bop, there.

[endeyequote]

People still listen to the radio?

I think as long as its a good song and one that works well with the game it doesnt matter if its popular or not. I mean for most people there have to be at least a few songs they have never heard.

I mean i have hugely eclectic tastes, everything from Jazz to Death Metal and everything in between, but there was still a few songs in GH1&2 that i hadn't heard, or knew very little.

[WingsOfSteel]

The only song Im dissapointed by is Rockaway Beach. Like its a decent song, but in that case they should have went for the more obvious one that would have worked better in the game anyways (Blitzkreig Bop)

I WANNA LIVE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUjQUUufe3A)

[sushi111]

Nice joke about Blitzkeig Bop, there.

That wasnt a joke, how is Rockaway Beach any less repetitive then BB?

[Desensitized]

I still think 'No Go' would be a lot of fun to play, but 'I Wanna Live' is pretty cool too.

'Rockaway Beach' is a bit of an odd Ramones song to pick for a game like this.

[Teh_Jakester]

That wasnt a joke, how is Rockaway Beach any less repetitive then BB?

...*Facepalm*

[sushi111]

...*Facepalm*

Are you kidding or something? Both songs are pretty much the smae guitar wise.

[newwaytodie]

Anyone new here wanna comment?

[MrGrieves]

Yeah I liked the more unknowned songs in guitar hero but you gotta put some popular songs on there to get people interested in the game

[aku_chi]

Firstly, let me clarify my views on music popularity. Unlike some people on this board, I value popularity in music. If a band or song is popular, it means, by definition, that more people like it. I rely on this truth to screen for music; if more people like a particular song, I should be more likely to enjoy it. I have quickly learned that I have have different tastes from the mainstream. Happily, my music preferences do coincide well with the US Modern Rock Chart. In this way, I use a song's ranking on the US Modern Rock chart as a tool to discover good music. Naturally, I don't simply purchase all highly rated music; I sample it first. Often I don't like what I hear and search for other songs. Sometimes I hear some great songs that don't make the Modern Rock Chart, so I purchase those. But in general, I view music popularity and good music as positively correlated.

I suppose that there are two parts to this question. Firstly, should Rock Band seek out popular bands for their music? In this case, I strongly favor seeking out more popular rock bands. Bands with a history of great, popular music like Led Zeppelin, Metallica, Pearl Jam, and the Foo Fighters should be sought out at every opportunity. I can enjoy one-hit wonders just like the next person, but I think that these great, popular bands better deserve their music to be included in Rock Band. At the same time, I understand that these big-name bands will be more expensive to get into the game, so I can settle with some one-hit wonders and otherwise lesser known bands.

With regards to song selection, I think that popularity should act as a screening proccess. A band's most popular songs should be considered first but if they don't fit well into the Rock Band gameplay, they should be passed over in favor of second-tier songs that work great in the game (see my Bush topic for an example of this proccess). I don't think that popular songs should be passed over just because they are popular because popular songs are usually better. However, with extremely popular bands like those mentioned above, I can understand opting for a second-tier song to avoid people tiring of a superhit. For instance, I think that Harmonix did well in choosing Nirvana's In Bloom over Smells Like Teen Spirit or Come As You Are. This should be the exception and not the rule. For even slightly less popular bands like Weezer it is fine to choose a big hit (Say it Ain't So).

[Rock_Starman]

I'd like the song to at least be popular. Doesn't have to be the bands MOST popular song but something I'm not going have to look up. I'll use Led Zeppelin as an example. Stairway is no doubt their most popular and known song but Heartbreaker,Over the Hills and Far Away,Black Dog,Rock & Roll,Whole Lotta Love,Misty Mountian Hop or Kashmir would be fine too. Hot Dog? No.

[blue_dragonzero]

However Dont fear the Reaper is the most popular BOC song, and they went for it because it works very well in the game.

No. (Don't Fear) The Reaper is one of the band's best songs, but not the most popular (granted it is well known to people who like the band. Burnin' for you and Godzilla are the most popular songs by BOC, heck my local radio stations don't even have The Reaper.

[Kang_Zircon]

No. (Don't Fear) The Reaper is one of the band's best songs, but not the most popular (granted it is well known to people who like the band. Burnin' for you and Godzilla are the most popular songs by BOC, heck my local radio stations don't even have The Reaper.

You might have been right if it weren't for that farging cowbell sketch on SNL. Now millions of people on 'teh interweb' who've never even heard of BOC know of that song...

As for an answer to the question - I pretty much agree that popular music better for setlists pretty much just because you know how it's supposed to sound and what to expect. It doesn't matter if it's a band's biggest hit or not. Also, I'm a lot less likely to replay the songs I've never heard of, unless I think their particularly good.

[newwaytodie]

I'm not saying that anyone would want to play songs that they had never heard in their life, I'm just saying that some bands have songs that are "less known" and "less heard" that would be more fun.

I mean, you're going to be playing a particular song OVER and OVER and OVER again.... Having to do that on a song that you have already heard a million times just isn't very fun at all.

[BobLoblaw]

Picking Heart-Shaped Box really isn't a good example because it's still one of there most famous songs that get played to death as well. If they wanted to go for somethin lesser known by Nirvana they would've picked Blew, or maybe something else off Bleach that would work much better for GH.

[Rookieste]

how about you stop listening to the radio ;), I think its a matter of possibly just getting a popular band rather than a popular bands over used song.

Man I hadn't heard of alot of the bands on GH 1&2 as I've said before in another thread, but its a great way of branching your musical taste and knowledge, some songs might not hit it off with you i.e. , so many songs in the guitar hero 80's game, but some absolute gems, like I'm turning japanese, holy diver and play with me etc.

Also with bands like those listed yeah they have their mega hits, but there are still alot of songs they have that are massive hits that people have heard of.
If I were say to people in the UK, can you name lynard skynards most famous song, people will say sweet home alabama, but we all know it should be free bird.

Its not a matter of how famous a song is in this game, unlike GH, its about how well all four formats work, guitar, bass, drums and vocals. So don't worry, hopefully they should judge them on all four things and we'll get the best of them

[whofan]

Firstly, let me clarify my views on music popularity. Unlike some people on this board, I value popularity in music. If a band or song is popular, it means, by definition, that more people like it. I rely on this truth to screen for music; if more people like a particular song, I should be more likely to enjoy it. I have quickly learned that I have have different tastes from the mainstream. Happily, my music preferences do coincide well with the US Modern Rock Chart. In this way, I use a song's ranking on the US Modern Rock chart as a tool to discover good music. Naturally, I don't simply purchase all highly rated music; I sample it first. Often I don't like what I hear and search for other songs. Sometimes I hear some great songs that don't make the Modern Rock Chart, so I purchase those. But in general, I view music popularity and good music as positively correlated.

I suppose that there are two parts to this question. Firstly, should Rock Band seek out popular bands for their music? In this case, I strongly favor seeking out more popular rock bands. Bands with a history of great, popular music like Led Zeppelin, Metallica, Pearl Jam, and the Foo Fighters should be sought out at every opportunity. I can enjoy one-hit wonders just like the next person, but I think that these great, popular bands better deserve their music to be included in Rock Band. At the same time, I understand that these big-name bands will be more expensive to get into the game, so I can settle with some one-hit wonders and otherwise lesser known bands.

With regards to song selection, I think that popularity should act as a screening proccess. A band's most popular songs should be considered first but if they don't fit well into the Rock Band gameplay, they should be passed over in favor of second-tier songs that work great in the game (see my Bush topic for an example of this proccess). I don't think that popular songs should be passed over just because they are popular because popular songs are usually better. However, with extremely popular bands like those mentioned above, I can understand opting for a second-tier song to avoid people tiring of a superhit. For instance, I think that Harmonix did well in choosing Nirvana's In Bloom over Smells Like Teen Spirit or Come As You Are. This should be the exception and not the rule. For even slightly less popular bands like Weezer it is fine to choose a big hit (Say it Ain't So).

Okay, you've hit a little nerve with me here because of my own views on music. I'm not going to flame you or anything, so please take into account that none of the following is aimed at you, nor is it meant to insult you.

Popularity should NOT be used to guage how "good" a band/song is. Popularity is just an indicator of what people happen to like at a certain time. For example, let's take a look at two of my favorite bands, The Who and Judas Priest:

The Who:
Their most popular songs are "My Generation", "Won't Get Fooled Again", "Baba O'Riley", "Magic Bus", and "Can't Explain"

Being a huge fan of the music of The Who I have listened to (and own several copies) of every album put out by them. Thus, I firmly believe I am in a position of authority to properly comment on their music. I would argue that the following songs, 90% you've probably never heard of, are far superior in terms of performance, writing and arrangement.
"Bell Boy", "Quadrophenia", "Trick Of The Light", "The Quiet One", "905", "The Rock", "I've Had Enough", "Sea And Sand", "Cut My Hair". If you listen to these songs extensively you'll see exactly what I mean. They're much more intricate and deep than any of the popular stuff.

Judas Priest:
Their most popular songs are "You've Got Another Thing Comin'", "Living After Midnight" and "Breaking The Law"

I would argue that these songs most certainly do not hold a candle musically to songs like "A Touch Of Evil", "Prisoner Of Your Eyes", "Diamonds And Rust", "Locked In", "Private Property", "Victim Of Changes" or "The Hellion/Electric Eye".

I listen to music non-stop, in fact I find it very difficult to sit in any kind of silence for any period of time and I have listened to a variety of genres over the years everything from the Blues to modern rock. Often the best stuff by bands are on the albums and thus are regalated to obscurity rather than being heard by many people who only listen to greatest hits.

In my experience the best way to discover good music is to work backwards. I usually start with a song I like (I usually hear it on a video or in a movie or something), I'll go out and buy a greatest hits by the artist (if the song is not on the greatest hits package, then I'll get the album with the track), then start branching out from there (getting further albums by the artist to listen to everything else they've done) and then when I'm ready for something new I'll look into influences/other liked bands by that artist and start the process over again.

In this way I've discovered a tonne of great music and have only very rarely been burned (Evanescence, I'm looking at you!!!). Using this method I discovered the great solo works of Pete Townshend, John Entwistle, Roger Daltrey, Simon Townshend, Glenn Tipton as well as works of Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Jethro Tull, ELP and Niel Young.

Don't look to popularity to tell you what's great, if I did that, I would be missing out on a lot of great music right now and be listening to music I don't care for in the slightest.

[newwaytodie]

^ Totally agree with every word of it.

[aku_chi]

In my experience the best way to discover good music is to work backwards. I usually start with a song I like (I usually hear it on a video or in a movie or something), I'll go out and buy a greatest hits by the artist (if the song is not on the greatest hits package, then I'll get the album with the track), then start branching out from there (getting further albums by the artist to listen to everything else they've done) and then when I'm ready for something new I'll look into influences/other liked bands by that artist and start the process over again.


Your post, in the main, is a rebuttle of my claim that "popularity can/should be used to screen for music". In the above paragraph, however, you show that you do respect popularity by first purchasing a band's greatest hits album. If you held no respect for music popularity you would purchase the album the song originally appeared on. The fact that you do eventually purchase some of their albums is an expression of your ability to find enjoyment in less popular songs; I respect that. I used to purchase music in the same way. If I heard several of a band's songs that I really liked, I would get their greatest hits album if possible. Upon getting an ipod, I favor purchasing single songs over albums. It takes an excellent band to get me to purchase an album now.

You have detailed an impressive number of less popular songs from The Who that you prefer over their popular songs. Personally, I cannot do that for any band that I like. I can enjoy a band's less popular songs but I usually find that bands do choose their best songs to release as singles (and thereby enable them to become more popular). Naturally, my tastes often differ subtely from the norm. For instance, my favorite Pearl Jam song is Alive whereas Jeremy is their most popular song. But I would be lying if I didn't concur with the masses that Jeremy, Black, and Alive are Pearl Jam's three masterpieces. I appreciate your ability to find pleasure in the neglected but I cannot relate. And so, I will continue to use song popularity as a guide towards purchasing new music.