Two new drum kits received. Same problem.

[Delmonte]

On Sunday, Nov 30th I placed my warranty order for replacement drums (original bundle bought on launch day). I was having the same problems as most on here, lack of response on the red pad. Yellow and blue pad were fine. I am an accomplished drummer (marched snare drum with Phantom Regiment in '95 and 96) so am certain I'm playing proper quality on fast notes. I have read through the thread about the botched soldering jobs on the sensors and was convinced that was my issue as well, but I'm not sure that is the issue anymore, at least with mine (I have not yet opened them up to look at the wiring). Perhaps I will convince you of the same.

Tonight I came home to find TWO sets of replacement drums on my doorstep. How or why I got two are not known to me. Upon unpacking them, I can tell they are from two different production lines. The packing is completely different (one matched my original packaging and another is completely different). I was optimistic that perhaps they had fixed their production issues and sent me one from a new line.

I unpacked them both and proceeded to test them. Unfortunately, both replacement sets have (identical) problems. Here's what occurs:

Playing a fat open roll or fast singles on the yellow and blue pad work fine (when played on center, edge, and rim). On the green and red drum, the response is intermittent when playing in the center of the pad (slightly more accurate when played softly vs full out, but still far form accurate). When playing on the edge of pad the response is improved and when playing on the rim it is NEARLY FLAWLESS. I hadn't noticed the off center vs edge issue before and I went back and tested my original set. It turns out it is the identical issue with the red AND green pad on that set as well.

So it turns out I am now in possession of THREE drum kit controllers and they all perform identically with the same issues. Obviously something about the pads on the wings of the controller is causing on-center hits to not be registered properly. If this was purely a wiring issue, I would expect the results to be the same on edge and rim hits as well, which they are not.

If I feel so inclined later, I will open up the various pads and see what the wiring looks like.

[Delmonte]

(recall previous post testing red and green pad center hits vs edge and rim hits)

I took my original pads apart. I removed the red (not working properly) and the yellow (working properly) pads and took out the sensors. BOTH sensors soldering looked identical. Both sensor's solder points had the same black plastic look to them. Yet one works flawlessly and the other does not register center hits. I suspect if I reverse the pads the one on the wing would still perform poorly.

I am now more convinced this has to do with the construction of the kit itself rather than the wiring of the sensor. It must have something to do with the more sturdy construction of the two central pads vs the flimsier and floppier pads on the ends. It could be that the more sturdy pad is causing more consistent vibration of the head regardless of where it is struck vs the end pads which have more play and more vibration when struck off center. I'm no expert though, but these are my observations.

Anyone else notice improved performance of their problem pads when played on the edge or rim vs played dead center?

[Delmonte]

Feel free to merge this thread and the thread about troubleshooting sensors (where I referenced this thread) as the conversations seems to have melded.

[Eman311]

maybe it's something besides faulty hardware? I mean, 3 sets, with one being from a different production line?

[Delmonte]

How do you explain that it works fine when played on the rim and doesn't work when played in the center of the pad?

I know a little about what I'm talking about. I've been a professional software engineer for 10 years and a drummer for even longer. While I'm no electrical engineer, I know that this single sensor can't figure out WHERE on the pad I'm hitting it . So the software can't discriminate based on this either. It has to be a hardware issue.

If you have any ideas or evidence that would lead me to a different conclusion, I'm all ears (or eyes as the case may be).

[Eman311]

I;m certainly not saying you don't know what you're talking about.

It's either another reason, or you have extremely bad luck.

[smith5879]

I think you might be on to something. It's relatively easy to flex the plastic shell of the red and green drum but the yellow and blue are rock solid.

[Delmonte]

I;m certainly not saying you don't know what you're talking about.

It's either another reason, or you have extremely bad luck.

Not bad luck. Bad manufacturing.

[cyberdote]

(recall previous post testing red and green pad center hits vs edge and rim hits)

Anyone else notice improved performance of their problem pads when played on the edge or rim vs played dead center?

When I first noticed the red drum would not work while playing Boston and Iron Maiden, I was looking for a way to complete the song just to get by. After experimenting for a while, I put my left hand drum stick flat on the red drum and struck the rims of the drum.

The red drum is definitely more responsive at the rim than in the center, but it is not accurate.

The red drum, when struck more in the middle, also seems to play more notes closer together the softer you hit the pad.

[Muffster]

I think you might be on to something. It's relatively easy to flex the plastic shell of the red and green drum but the yellow and blue are rock solid.

EXTREMELY easy to flex. In fact, that's what's went wrong with the kit I'm waiting on a replacement for right now.

Examine the bottom of the plastic bracket that holds all 4 pads up. You'll immediately notice that the the middle two pads are supported by a solid piece of plastic between them (as well as the control panel itself). The outer two pads have four very thin pieces of molded supporting plastic bearing their entire weight, and that's it.

This bracket area for my green pad has cracked. I ceased playing them when I noticed the crack since, if I kept playing, the green pad would have surely wound up on the floor along with a sorry mess of wiring.

This seems to be an isolated incident, as I haven't heard many other people talking about the plastic cracking in this area. No one in my house has ever played this kit in a rough manner (anything but, after all the horror stories we've been reading), so I'm guessing the beginning of a crack or some molding defect was already present when I received the bundle.

About 2 more cents worth of plastic to fill the gaps between the 4 outside supports struts, and I'm guessing this would have never been an issue.

[Delmonte]

(recall previous post testing red and green pad center hits vs edge and rim hits)

I took my original pads apart. I removed the red (not working properly) and the yellow (working properly) pads and took out the sensors. BOTH sensors soldering looked identical. Both sensor's solder points had the same black plastic look to them. Yet one works flawlessly and the other does not register center hits. I suspect if I reverse the pads the one on the wing would still perform poorly.

I swapped the sensors between my yellow (ok) and red (not ok) pads. Upon retesting, the red drum still had issues on rapid center hits and is perfect on rapid rim hits. The yellow drum was still more or less flawless.

So at least in the case of my three kits, it isn't a sensor issue.

[Stexe]

I've also had some trouble getting the red pad to register a hit during intense parts. I'm only a Medium drum player so it isn't a huge deal, but I know it will be a huge problem later on. I think I'm going to continue playing with it for a bit and "test the grounds" more so and then order a replacement. Hopefully by then they will have worked out the problem.

P.S. I've also had problems with the guitar tilt sensor, I've gone from horizontal playing to completely vertical (and even tried playing almost upside down) with little to no success many times. Also, the microphone messes up sometimes and seems to register extremely low sounds as mid to high pitch for some reason... all these problems are fine on Easy / Medium settings, but once you get into Hard / Expert it really can mess you up.

[wayaway103]

I also got two replacement kits...I didn't open one but the one I did open, I am more or less having the same exact problem. I can't pass the beginning of Foreplay/Long Time on Hard because it won't register half of the time. Don't Fear The Reaper completely screws me over because my red pad barely registers during the sixteenth notes in the bridge.

I'm getting pretty angry about all of these hardware issues...I try not to use my guitar in fear of that having to be replaced after much more use and I am more than likely going to have to send away for another drum kit even though I have 3 for some reason.

[ParliamentFunkadelic]

Damn,
I am having the same red pad problem during fast fills, and it is impossible for me to go any further in the expert mode now because of it...
I have sent away for a replacement. Hopefully my replacement turns out better than those mentioned in here.

I am having some lag during the free form fills as well, I hope to hear more about this from HMX and EA at some point.

[Stevenam81]

Yeah, my second set is doing the same thing with the red pad. This set is better than my first however. My first set was a completely different design. I'm not even joking when I say every single piece of the set was different in some way. The only thing that remained the same was the USB cable and the cable from the bass pedal to the pads. The poles were a slightly different color, the rubber feet had a different design to them. The bass pedal has the magnet in a different place and the mold it came out of is different. On my first set, the pads were soldered directly to a chip inside the drum. On my new set, the wire plugs into a white connector. So with this set I could actually switch the pads if I wanted.

I was wanting to send off for a third set but after reading this I guess there really isn't any point. Right now, I have my red drum taped down and it now works flawlessly. I just don't believe I should have to tape the drum of a new set down for it to work. My green pad seems fine though. I can actually do fast rolls on it, I think. I say they because it is kind of hard to tell with the "crash" sound. I watch the screen though and looks like it's registering 100%. The thing is, my red pad works fine when I play soft. I can hit my blue, yellow, and even green pads at any speed and any power and they all register the same (as in perfect). My red drum works when doing fast 16th notes if I am playing soft, and I mean like barely even touching the pad. It seems too sensitive. When I start hitting it harder, it starts missing notes. If I do a fast triplet, it only registers one note, sometimes two if I'm lucky, but never all three. When I really lay into it I can't even tell you how many it misses. I can do the exact same thing on the other drums and they register just fine. I've been playing drums for 8 years, and I know I'm using proper technique. And to be honest, out of all of my other friends that play drums, I play the softest. I don't expect these things to take a serious pounding. I just expect them to withstand average attack. This is where the red drums fails.

So I am still debating on whether or not I should send off for a third set. I mean, I really do want this problem solved, but I think I am going to wait until I hear more about this issue.

[DaMan12]

Im having the same problem on my red pad. When i test it during intro's its not as bad as that you tube video but it still craps out on center hits during rolls. But its a lot better arond the edges and perfect on the rims. I passed dont fear the reaper on hard by hitting near the edge/rim as the center hits are too inconsistent. My green pad seems fine tho.

Im curious as to the guy who couldnt pass foreplay/longtime on hard cause of his red pad, theres not too much fast rolls on red during that song, what caused you to fail?

i also believe this problem is almost as bad as the guitar strum bar but not enough people are on hard/expert to notice, and even if they are many assume they just dont have the skill.

[cybermousey]

i also believe this problem is almost as bad as the guitar strum bar but not enough people are on hard/expert to notice, and even if they are many assume they just dont have the skill.

Hmm could this be my problem too? I'm playing on expert and I swear I'm hitting the notes, yet it doesn't seem to register? could it be my drum kit and not lack of skill? At times I find the rolling drum hits of red just not being nailed. Maybe I am hitting it fast enough or even too fast. Could my drums be all messed up?

I found this detailing my problem to a "T"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAWd7nTAK0Y&feature=related

[Stevenam81]

i also believe this problem is almost as bad as the guitar strum bar but not enough people are on hard/expert to notice, and even if they are many assume they just dont have the skill.

Yeah, this is what I believe as well. Most people that say their drums are fine don't even know how to check for what we are talking about. Then you have the people that say they just need to be calibrated lol. Even the support lady wanted me to go through the calibration process when I was requesting my replacement set. First of all, I know for a fact my screen has zero lag. It's prefect. I'm using a Samsung 225BW 22" widescreen LCD monitor, using VGA. It has a 5 ms response. Anyway, I explained to her that even if I was experiencing lag, it's pretty easy to tell that my pad isn't responding.

People are going to be pissed when they finally get to hard and expert songs that require fast 16th notes and rolls and realize their pads aren't responding. Especially if it's been 60 days and EA hasn't extended the warranty.

[ilikecheetos]

yeh on easy and med, you most likely wont realize problems, because there are no close notes. on hard and expert is when you see the problem. actually i take that back. even on some songs on med you will see the problem. KNownig you hit that note, and it doesnt count. i have a guitar and drum set that are messing up. guitar is completly useless. drumset wont let me get 100% when i know i hit it 100%. mic works, and drum sticks work. although my drum sticks came with a chip at the bottom of one of the sticks. IM still waiting for my dm guitar. nov24 express method, still no guitar. fun fun fun.

[Xervai]

I have two drum kits and both don't bend like that in the video. I can hit the crap out of it, and BOTH sets register perfectly on all drums.


If I can find a model number I'll be sure to post here.


Both kits of mine were dated mid to late OCT and the drumkit model numbers are both 822148. Neither of them bend with excessive pressure, and they pick up all notes hit, fast or slow.

[Odwill]

I too have this same issue and also tried to swap sensors with zero improvement. This has to be happening because of the flex in the outer two pads. The wings vibrate when you hit them do to lack of support. This is OK when you are hitting slow because the pad will return to its relaxed state between hits but you have to hit fast for a roll the pad is still vibrating after each strike and the piezo gets "confused" because of the movement/vibration. When you hit softly the pad doesn't vibrate as much thus you get better response. But then you have the people that say if you tape the pad down it will respond better. Hmmm, who the hell knows?? Maybe I will try to come up with something to stiffen the two outside pads with a brace or something and see if there is any improvement.

Odz

[Stevenam81]

Yes, taping it down does work. This makes sense though. When you tape it down, you are pushing the pad down against the padding. So that cuts down on the vibration. This has to be the problem.

[Stevenam81]

I wonder if I should try stuffing the inside with an assload of cotton balls lol. I really wouldn't mind if I had to do that and it worked. I just don't like the tape being visible on the outside. If there is anything I can do to the inside to remedy this, I will be fine with it and won't send it back.

[ParliamentFunkadelic]

people who have had the taping fix work for them: how exactly are you doing it? I have heard to push it halfway down and then tape it, and I have also heard to push it all the way down then tape it?

Also, about the bass pedal. I find it is far tighter and requires alot more effort to actually register a hit during constant 8th/16th notes on songs like 'dont fear the reaper' on expert, than my real bass pedal. I tried something that makes it feel a little better: I push down the pedal very slightly and then tape it to the base of the pedal from there. I rolled the tape over a couple times, and now the spring on the pedal feels a little more realistic.

[airbakin]

people who have had the taping fix work for them: how exactly are you doing it? I have heard to push it halfway down and then tape it, and I have also heard to push it all the way down then tape it?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uQ9XLiMfBRo&feature=related

I taped mine like how this video did it, you'll just have to experiment to find your optimal tape job. It really doesn't matter however way you do it, after about a half week I found my tape on the pad heads start to break off from all the pounding my sticks gave to them. Re-tape!

[ParliamentFunkadelic]

that looks like how I tried to tape it, but I can't tell if the pad is pushed all the way down to the plastic, or halfway, or what? Mine is now pushed down like 3/4th of the way and it still doesn't register some of the faster/harder hits

[Stevenam81]

As far as the taping, I used scotch strapping tape. It's 2 inches wide and strong. I pushed my drum almost all the way down while applying the tape. The tape will stretch a little though, and once you take your hand off of the drum, it will rise a little. So there is a small gap. Just experiment. There is no right or wrong way to tape it as long as it works. Also my tape is done like an X, not like a +. What I mean by that is the tape is closer at the top and bottom than it is on the sides. So the tape is not at 90 degree angles. If that makes any sense.

[ParliamentFunkadelic]

As far as the taping, I used scotch strapping tape. It's 2 inches wide and strong. I pushed my drum almost all the way down while applying the tape. The tape will stretch a little though, and once you take your hand off of the drum, it will rise a little. So there is a small gap. Just experiment. There is no right or wrong way to tape it as long as it works. Also my tape is done like an X, not like a +. What I mean by that is the tape is closer at the top and bottom than it is on the sides. So the tape is not at 90 degree angles. If that makes any sense.

Thanks man, I will have to mess with it more, because mine is pushed down almost all the way, and there is a small gap. But, it still doesnt work too well. Hopefully my replacement that is coming soon works better.

also, What do you think of the bass pedal? I think it feels pretty good for a video game pedal, but it requires alot more force than my real pedals.

[airbakin]

also, What do you think of the bass pedal? I think it feels pretty good for a video game pedal, but it requires alot more force than my real pedals.

This was touched upon in an earlier forum. Reality pedals have more recoil / action & reaction / bounceback in playing the kick, which in the end makes it "easier" in terms of speed and force requirement.

My warranty set shipped with a new pedal and a pair of sticks in addition to the 4 drum pads that I claimed to EA were malfunctioning. The pedal seemed a lot better and easier to stomp on then its predecessor, yet that was only before I cracked it down the middle and snapped it in half when playing "Tom Sawyer." And this happened within half a day of receiving it....

[Stevenam81]

Thanks man, I will have to mess with it more, because mine is pushed down almost all the way, and there is a small gap. But, it still doesnt work too well. Hopefully my replacement that is coming soon works better.

also, What do you think of the bass pedal? I think it feels pretty good for a video game pedal, but it requires alot more force than my real pedals.

Well, I think the tape method only works one of the models. There are at least two models that I know of. I am assuming the replacement I received is the newer design. I've taken the red drum pad off of each set and the one from the replacement looks like a better design to me. I'm thinking the tape only helps on the newer design. The newer design uses a white connector. The drum can be unplugged. The first one I had was soldered directly to a board inside the drum. Also, the foam padding is on the underside of the actual pad on the newer one. My first set had the padding attached to the base of the inside of the drum. So you probably have the older design. Nothing could help that one. Other than a replacement, which will need tape. LOL

[riskbreaker927]

Hey Delmonte. I noticed the same thing with the red pad being more responsive at lower dynamics. Maybe this is a subliminal campaign on Harmonix's part to create quad players that can play soft rolls on the 4 drum?

:cool:

[B18C5 Tom]

I don't know if this has been posted yet, because I stopped reading after the middle of the second page, but here goes...

I fixed my red pad drum issue with a very easy fix. It took me 5 minutes and cost me 1 penny.

1. Take the red drum pad off by either pulling it, or flipping the drum head assembly over and pushing the 4 rubber plugs through with a drumstick - the pad will pop off. Be careful not to rip it off too hard of quickly as the wires connecting it are crazy thin.

2. Once the pad is off you can see the center sensor in the pastic base of the drum head assembly. Remove the two phillips screws that hold an orange plastic piece that holds a spring against the sensor.

3. Once the orange spring base/holder is out of the way gently pull the sensor out of it's hole and be sure to keep the sliver of rubber stuck to it, or if it comes off put it back on.

4. Drop a penny in the base of the drum head asssembly where the sensor and rubber sliver were.

5. Make sure the rubber sliver/insulator is between the sensor and the penny, then reinstall everything as it came apart

6. Key reassembly points would be make sure not to overtighten the phillips screws that held the orange spring holder/base against the sensor, and also make sure the drum head is completely snapped back on - this can be guaged by how flat the head sits, and also if the rubber plugs stick through the drum head assembly equally.

I am 100% dead serious in saying it completely fixed my red drum pad issues. I am top 20 on a few songs playing on expert, and I found any fast rolls beforehand on the red drum pad were unresponsive.

After the fix (which I saw on here BTW - only difference is the original poster of this idea reaplaced the rubber sliver with a penny which is noisy) the red pad is as fast as I can roll, and my scores improved as well as my note streaks.

I also think it's noteworthy that I had applied for replacement drums before I did this mod so that if I broke anything I was covered, but here's the funny part:

I got my new drums last night and they suffer from the exact same red pad issue! WTF?!?

So the thing now is my original drums work only after I've modded them with a penny, but my brand new ones don't work. Go figure. So which ones do I send back? I mean on principle alone I should reapply for replacements and return the brand new, non working ones, but the problem is it could literally be a never ending affair. I know my original modded ones work, but only after I rigged them, which is ridiculous.