Constructive Album Creation?

[Gowienczyk]

History of Rock, I have a proposal:

We all have seen the Fantasy All-Star Rock Band threads, but today I got to thinking. Why do we have to rely on such a monotonous and dull idea like voting and being done with it? Where is the effort or discussion value in a thread like that? Only popular choices get placed in front and it could be a contradictory imaginary effort. Wouldn't it be neat if there was an alternative where it's not a boring one? Where there is more discussion value, constructing the band would be more than guitarist b, bassist d, vocalist a and drummer c. Get what I'm saying?

Why not make this thread something more constructive?

If you guys are against the idea, that's cool. If you think I'm trying to trash the older threads, that is not my intention. I just felt the standard thread is... boring and no effort or discussion is involved. On the Music Forums where I came from, there was a administrative rule where if there was no discussion relevance, the thread was worthless and will be counted as spam. I'm not asking for History of Rock to be the same. I just want to be more entertained and immersed in discussion on such an idea.

So let's BUILD AN ALBUM!

The order of discussing personnel could be done evenly; but it's one band per thread (or even one thread period) so don't expect seven million of these. But... as with the law of making a band as far as composition usually goes:

Priorities are in order:

1 - Percussion (drums)
2 - Rhythm (bass)
3 - Melody (guitar)

With optional discussions relating to vocals and guest musicians.

I think naming the band or album would be pointless but if we want we can get into that. Then we can argue for a few hours about a BASIC genre or subgenre. Something like that. What do you think, this is a one shot alternative-to-this-thread deal. If you don't like it, that's that. If you want to make more discussion in this place, well let's get to it! But first we need a base of the band. What drummer should we look to? (or feel free to comment on the thread first, whatever.)

Comments?

Constructed Projects:
Band/Album #1
Stewart Copeland (percussion)
Kathy Valentine (bass)
Guy Picciotto (guitars)
<guitar(s)>
<optional musicians>

[instantdeath999]

I've never participated in one of the threads you speak of, mostly for the reasons you list. But this could be interesting.

So, you want me to name drummers? Well, that is difficult without even knowing a basic genre for the album, though I guess we can build the genre around the drummer.

A few ideas, assuming the dead also count.

Stephen Morris from Joy Division
Brian Chase from the Yeah Yeah Yeahs
Dave Lombardo from Slayer
Keith Moon from the Who
Steward Copeland from the Police
Steve Flynn from Atheist
Billy Cobham, mostly known for work with Miles Davis

[Gowienczyk]

I've never participated in one of the threads you speak of, mostly for the reasons you list. But this could be interesting.

So, you want me to name drummers? Well, that is difficult without even knowing a basic genre for the album, though I guess we can build the genre around the drummer.

A few ideas, assuming the dead also count.

Stephen Morris from Joy Division
Brian Chase from the Yeah Yeah Yeahs
Dave Lombardo from Slayer
Keith Moon from the Who
Steward Copeland from the Police
Steve Flynn from Atheist
Billy Cobham, mostly known for work with Miles Davis

For now, we can use a no limits rule, because as Schiz said to me in AOL Instant Messenger. It can limit the musicians. But let's see where this goes, either way. Thanks for the positive input, given this stage of the thread (drummer choice) it's open to anybody. But I am most familiar with who I bolded.

[Onslaught_fei]

What kind of music are we making? Is there a concept?

[Gowienczyk]

We do not have a base musical style yet, this can also be discussed at this stage alongside drummers.

[instantdeath999]

I like the idea of a Steward Copeland style drummer.

Something I think worth discussing; do we want this album to be written and performed by one person, or a collaboration of different people? Something similar to The White Album, perhaps?

If we were to go the "White Album" route, I think the album would end up a lot more diverse.

[citric_bullets]

This thread has caught my eye. I like this new take on the "fantasy" band. I think we need to specifically hammer out what genre the band is going to be before picking a drummer. The drummer is probably going to have a large part in defining the band as being that style, so it'll be helpful to figure out what we're trying to build before we start building it.

I suggest we, in going with a more discussion oriented theme here, try to focus on genres that are currently... I don't wanna say relevant, as that implies that the rest is irrelevant, but, y'know what I'm getting at? Just try to make a band that would be a part of the natural progression of music today or something.

Regardless, I really like this idea, and I hope it goes well.

[Gowienczyk]

Perhaps, but I'd like a typical band format (band leader writes the majority of it with a minor supporting cast from the rest).

But like I mentioned we could have guest musicians, too.

[instantdeath999]

I think it might be a good idea to have a "duo" writing team. Take two writers that may work good together.

[Gowienczyk]

But if we are basing off Copeland, he can be a bit broad. I mean looking to the Police and Oysterhead, you see what I mean.

[instantdeath999]

True, but nothing has been set yet, so right now it's pretty much in "brainstorming" stage.

[Gowienczyk]

Also on the subject of the thread: do you think we should have separate threads per bands or should I just update the OP with our imaginary band/albums in the future?

[instantdeath999]

Depends on how frequent they are. I wouldn't want the entire first page cluttered with similar threads.

[Gowienczyk]

I don't think I'll be doing a cherokeesam. ;)

[a21schizoidman]

id keep it all in one thread, makes it less cluttered, and makes it so we can keep a discussion going, if you keep creating threads, a discussion might be continuing in one, which affects the next

[Gowienczyk]

Right.

[ArmsAreLoud]

I'd really prefer we choose the genre first. That other thread suffers greatly from most people not really knowing who would work with the rest of the cast, which is a major cause for everyone voting just for the most well-known person in the list.

[onidragon]

I'd really prefer we choose the genre first. That other thread suffers greatly from most people not really knowing who would work with the rest of the cast, which is a major cause for everyone voting just for the most well-known person in the list.

I agree with him. Before we start choosing musicians, we should choose what genre we're working with, limit our choices so it'll be easier to choose.

[willdabeast21]

I agree with him. Before we start choosing musicians, we should choose what genre we're working with, limit our choices so it'll be easier to choose.

I'm gonna have to agree

[l-o-t]

^ Me too. Mind, Stewart Copeland is fairly diverse and would probably do well in most genres.

[Gowienczyk]

Okay, then. We have one drummer suggestion that we are agreeing on and no real genre suggestions. See the problem? :p

[a21schizoidman]

well, i think getting a drummer first is key, because you can get a drummer who is good in many genres and then go from there, to determine the genre, we need a bassist to compliment the drummer for that genre

[Gowienczyk]

So are we all agreed about working with Copeland with our first construction?

[a21schizoidman]

im cool with Copeland

[afterstasis]

i think copeland's a quality choice.

[Gowienczyk]

So our first drummer is Stewart Copeland who is best known for The Police and Oysterhead. Considering several bassists have (or have tried to) have worked with him, this isn't completely limiting.

Ideas?

[a21schizoidman]

well, he can play new wave/reggae (sorta)/punk, but heading more the new wave/punk way, I suggest Tina Weymouth from Talking Heads

[Gowienczyk]

What about Peter Hook?

[a21schizoidman]

What about Peter Hook?

i don't see his style fitting in with Copeland that easy, but it could work

[Gowienczyk]

Yeah, Peter Hook really was the dominating factor of Joy Division, wasn't he?

[a21schizoidman]

Yeah, Peter Hook really was the dominating factor of Joy Division, wasn't he?

id say so

[Gowienczyk]

Any other ideas for post-punk, new wave or rock bassists that could work here?

[afterstasis]

how about mr mike watt?

[Gowienczyk]

Mike Watt would either dominate the band or work well. It depends what he's doing.

[instantdeath999]

how about mr mike watt?

I could go with this.

Perhaps a reggae or funk bassist? Or am I the only one who thinks that would sound good?

[Gowienczyk]

I could go with this.

Perhaps a reggae or funk bassist? Or am I the only one who thinks that would sound good?

I don't know many reggae musicians, lol.

[kwami42]

Kim Gordon?

Edit: I guess I don't know Sonic Youth that well >.<

[afterstasis]

I don't know many reggae musicians, lol.

jackie jackson is probably my favorite reggae bassist...

[Gowienczyk]

Kim Gordon?

Edit: I guess I don't know Sonic Youth that well >.<

It's worth a shot, I could consider it.

[Gowienczyk]

Okay, any other bass ideas?

[Runesmith]

I think the following bassists would have great chemistry with Stewart Copeland:

William Mysterious of The Rezillos (http://www.last.fm/music/The+Rezillos - All of the videos of them on youtube are live videos of dubious quality, so last.fm samples are the best I can find. Check out Flying Saucer Attack for my favorite bassline of his.)

Kathy Valentine of The Go-Gos (Kathy has a really simple but prominent bass style. I think it would fit in well with the New Wave/punk/post-punk thing we are shooting for.)

Leigh Gorman of Bow Wow Wow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7BwRL2yhGQ)

Matt Freeman of Rancid (Perhaps a bit of stretch, buuut...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J08skBDQ3C4)

Mark King of Level 42 (Level 42's music is pretty similar to the material Stewart Copeland is used to playing. Here's a nice bass solo from Mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yioVmqlt2Fk)

Bruce Foxton of The Jam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdSqpT6gfDU and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whSYTSXm8wo)

[Gowienczyk]

Kathy Valentine could be cool. I agree.

[cherokeesam]

I don't think I'll be doing a cherokeesam. ;)

:confused: What's that supposed to mean? :cool:

[schmeankman]

Family Man Barrett?

[a21schizoidman]

i could see Kathy working in this

[Gowienczyk]

Any arguments on Kathy Valentine? I think that's who we are going for this one!

[afterstasis]

kathy sounds fine to me, sir.

[Gowienczyk]

So our first bassist is Kathy Valentine who is best known for The Go-Gos. The simple but non-overbearing style will surely let Copeland lead the rhythm section. Now we need guitarists who can fit! Remember we can have a lead/rhythm section or even any variation of that (r/r, l/l).

So how many guitarists will involve themselves in this band/album?

[a21schizoidman]

i think we could use either Elliot Easton from the Cars or Andy Taylor from Duran Duran

[Gowienczyk]

What about Jim Jones?

[afterstasis]

guy picciotto from fugazi would be a swell fit, i think.

[Gowienczyk]

guy picciotto from fugazi would be a swell fit, i think.

Hm, Iunno. Could he really work in a new wavey band?

[afterstasis]

Hm, Iunno. Could he really work in a new wavey band?

i think so, yes... i imagine he'd steer it in a less blatantly "pop" direction, though.

[instantdeath999]

Maybe it's because I am listening to the Doors, but I can see Robby Krieger being interesting...

[Runesmith]

I'm liking the Eliot Easton suggestion the best so far, although I think Ric Ocasek (also of The Cars) would make an excellent addition if we are looking for someone to play rhythm.

[a21schizoidman]

how about Marty Hoenes who played with Donnie Iris?

[Gowienczyk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hYqvtHzr48 <- Jim Jones for those unfamiliar.

[instantdeath999]

I actually don't think we should look for a new-wave guitarist, for the sake of keeping things interesting. I like the idea of a psychedelic guitarist, honestly, though I'm not sure how that would sound.

Also, possibly a rhythm guitarist.

[cherokeesam]

I don't think I'll be doing a cherokeesam. ;)

Gow, I'm still waiting for an explanation about this comment.

What exactly is "A cherokeesam?" I didn't realize I had a trademark.

[Gowienczyk]

Figure it out, bro.

[cherokeesam]

Figure it out, bro.

No, really, please. Enlighten me.

[Gowienczyk]

Nah.

[cherokeesam]

If you've got a beef with me, back it up. I really have no idea who pissed in your cornflakes for you to come up with an insult out of the blue like that, when I've not had anything but respect for you before that comment.

So....what's up, bro?

[Gowienczyk]

You take things too seriously.

[cherokeesam]

Then explain the joke to me. That's the first time I've ever heard of "a cherokeesam" as a descriptive. I'd just like to know how you would define that word.

[Gowienczyk]

wouldn't want the entire first page cluttered with similar threads.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y205/Mike1204/forsammy.png

[cherokeesam]

Point taken, but you didn't have to be condescending about it.

Cluttering up the page isn't something I want to do, either, nor do Nightmare or any of the guys on Ultimate Setlist with their voting threads....but unfortunately, the forum format doesn't allow us to delete threads once they're done.

And I've got nothing at all against you making an alternate approach to the concept; far from it. And I like what I've read in the discussion, from you and others. Just no need to get snippy about it, agreed?

[Gowienczyk]

Point taken, but you didn't have to be condescending about it.

Cluttering up the page isn't something I want to do, either, nor do Nightmare or any of the guys on Ultimate Setlist with their voting threads....but unfortunately, the forum format doesn't allow us to delete threads once they're done.

And I've got nothing at all against you making an alternate approach to the concept; far from it. And I like what I've read in the discussion, from you and others. Just no need to get snippy about it, agreed?

Wasn't meant to be snippy.

[cherokeesam]

Understood.
After I misunderstood the first time.

Carry on, bro....seriously, much respect. I didn't want to get on your bad side. :)

[Gowienczyk]

I have a philosophy of holding no grudges, anyway.

[cherokeesam]

The only Grudge I hold is Track #1 off Tool's Lateralus.

[Gowienczyk]

Cute.

[a21schizoidman]

Cute.

you said cute and the thread dies

[My name is Fez]

you said cute and the thread dies

He says the exact same thing to me, in the exact same way, whenever I mention Tool in any form. It's odd.

Also, I like your suggestions for guitar with Elliot Easton and Andy Taylor. I'm leaning more toward Taylor, though.

I am not familar with Jim Jones, so I will check him out when I get home.

*Finally got off his ass to participate*

[Gowienczyk]

Good Job, Fez.

[WingsOfSteel]

So our first bassist is Kathy Valentine who is best known for The Go-Gos. The simple but non-overbearing style will surely let Copeland lead the rhythm section. Now we need guitarists who can fit! Remember we can have a lead/rhythm section or even any variation of that (r/r, l/l).


I know a lot of people want to go all New Wave-y, but I think Copeland would be a great drummer for a Punk/Hard Rock band, as evidenced by songs like Next to You or Truth Hits Everybody.

I'd like to submit for consideration Ricky Byrd (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdhonK8NMm8) of Joan Jett & the Blackhearts or James Williamson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKYALsp-sIg), the guitarist for Iggy & the Stooges on Raw Power.

[Gowienczyk]

Hm, well this is where the debate starts then!

[Gowienczyk]

So guiz, guitarists and shiiiit.

[WingsOfSteel]

So here's the guitarists mentioned in the order I want them and why.

1. Ricky Byrd (Joan Jett & the Blackhearts)

He's a good guitarist who can have a harder edge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjTj0jzA5qg) for when the band gets more rockin', but he can also fit in with the more poppy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdhonK8NMm8) songs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h7XDEpaKVY), which is good, since Copeland and Valentine both come from a pop background.

P.S. Here's one of my favorite examples of his solos. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7r2eWofyUY#t=1m09s) The song also has another outro solo that you should listen to.

2. Elliot Easton (The Cars)

If we end up going for a more purely pop/New Wave sound, this guy's probably my favorite, which makes him the runner-up. He's pretty talented, I just would like to hear this band go in more of a hard rock direction, which is why I prefer Byrd. Not to say The Cars never went in a hard rock direction, because I think Easton could do it, I just think Byrd's better for the job.

3. James Williamson (Iggy & The Stooges)

This guy's a great hard rock guitarist, but since I'm not sure he could go pop if he wanted to, he's down here. We should give him more of a chance if other people than me show interest in taking this band in a Hard Rock direction, but if I'm the only one, then I admit he wouldn't really fit with the band in the direction other people want to take it.

4. Andy Taylor (Duran Duran)

I just don't want him in because if we get a guy from Duran Duran in a band with the guy from The Police, people are going to want some British **** like Sting to be the frontman, and I don't think British ***** make great frontmen. And he's never done anything to really impress me like the other three guys on my list.

[zeldazeppelin]

hide- X-Japan(prob wont fit together)
Naoko Yamano- Shonen knife( seems like a good fit imo.)
Thurston Moore- Sonic Youth(seems like a fit that could work.)

Don't Flame my choices lol

[WingsOfSteel]

hide- X-Japan(prob wont fit together)
Thurston Moore- Sonic Youth(seems like a fit that could work.)


I'm not hearing either of these working out, and I've never heard the Shonen Knife thing.

[zeldazeppelin]

I'm not hearing either of these working out, and I've never heard the Shonen Knife thing.

I figured the same just wanted to put a few guitarist out there

[WingsOfSteel]

So, is this gonna keep going?

[a21schizoidman]

So, is this gonna keep going?

i imagine so, but Mike (Gowie) is on a trip for like 2 weeks and had to prepare for that, so i imagine this thread was the least of his worries in that span, i see it coming back to power when he gets back

[Gowienczyk]

So where were we, I think we were on guitarists?

[Fizzeler]

What genre is this "album" going to be so I can name some guitarists

[Gowienczyk]

New Wave, Post-Punk theoretically

[Fizzeler]

New Wave, Post-Punk theoretically

Ah then Andy Summers great work with The Police :D

[Gowienczyk]

Guy Picciotto
Thurston Moore
Jim Jones
Eliot Easton

These were the current main discussed guitarists from what I remember so we can build off this to discuss.

[Gowienczyk]

Ah then Andy Summers great work with The Police :D

Stewart Copeland is our drummer, not that I'm ruling out same members for this project; but let's try a bit more variety for the first band/album.

[Fizzeler]

Off the list Thurston Moore sticks out to me :D

[Gowienczyk]

I think Moore would turn this into a no wave / noise / experimental group though, I don't think that'd Copeland or Valentine would go along with this; so if Moore gets chosen it can seem like a very interesting outcome. I'm not sure. But so people remember how Jim Jones played, here's a song from his band:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hYqvtHzr48

Hope the old goat rests in peace. :)

[Fizzeler]

Bob Mothersbaugh would work well with the band same for Jerry Harrison if you wanted to make it more punk then Joan Jett could work as well :D

[Lizard_King]

Brandon Flowers/Morrissey for vocalist?
guitarist: Alex Kapranos (Franz Ferdinand)
Bassist: Flea .

[Gowienczyk]

Yeah, you didn't read the thread at all. Good job.

[Soror_YZBL]

I think Moore would turn this into a no wave / noise / experimental group though, I don't think that'd Copeland or Valentine would go along with this; so if Moore gets chosen it can seem like a very interesting outcome. I'm not sure. But so people remember how Jim Jones played, here's a song from his band:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hYqvtHzr48

Hope the old goat rests in peace. :)

Thurston Moore can go along with the as well. He was in the soundtrack band for the movie Backbeat, playing George Harrison parts, IIRC. They didn't do beatles songs, just the stuff they did when they were a cover band.

[Gowienczyk]

Everybody still interested?

[afterstasis]

Everybody still interested?

sure. i'm still game.

[Gowienczyk]

As remembered the current proposed guitarists to work with the band are:

Guy Picciotto (Fugazi, Rites of Spring)
Thurston Moore (Sonic Youth)
Jim Jones (Pere Ubu)
Elliot Easton (The Cars)

Current band lineup is:

Stewart Copeland (percussion)
Kathy Valentine (bass guitar)

[a21schizoidman]

i've been wondering what happened to this thread

[Gowienczyk]

It went to sleep!

[afterstasis]

As remembered the current proposed guitarists to work with the band are:

Guy Picciotto (Fugazi, Rites of Spring)
Thurston Moore (Sonic Youth)
Jim Jones (Pere Ubu)
Elliot Easton (The Cars)

Current band lineup is:

Stewart Copeland (percussion)
Kathy Valentine (bass guitar)

i think guy would be a great choice.
thurston and jim may be a little rough around the edges, yet elliot may be a little too easy a selection.
guy seems like he could take the band into interesting territory while allowing stewart and kathy's pop sensibilities to shine.

[a21schizoidman]

i'll agree with Guy Picciotto

[Gowienczyk]

i think guy would be a great choice.
thurston and jim may be a little rough around the edges, yet elliot may be a little too easy a selection.
guy seems like he could take the band into interesting territory while allowing stewart and kathy's pop sensibilities to shine.

How would Jim be a rough choice?

[afterstasis]

How would Jim be a rough choice?

i guess i'm stuck thinking of pere ubu's early material. i haven't heard a lot of the later stuff, i must admit.

jim wasn't a rough guitarist, but the music he made seemed to always carry that presence.

[Gowienczyk]

i guess i'm stuck thinking of pere ubu's early material. i haven't heard a lot of the later stuff, i must admit.

jim wasn't a rough guitarist, but the music he made seemed to always carry that presence.

As a guitarist I always think of this era Jim Jones;

Breath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hYqvtHzr48)
Waiting For Mary (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiK-Lvwanq0)

[afterstasis]

As a guitarist I always think of this era Jim Jones;

Breath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hYqvtHzr48)
Waiting For Mary (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiK-Lvwanq0)

man, i actually really enjoyed night music, but so many people always held so much animosity for that show! :)

as for pere ubu, the records i keep spinning are "dub housing", "the modern dance", and "terminal tower".

[Gowienczyk]

I'm more of a Cloudland, Why I Hate Women and Worlds In Collision guy myself.

[Gowienczyk]

Okay, this thread needs to stop dying! Anyway I think its clear that Guy Picciotto is our first guitar! What we need to do now is find another guitarist! and after that decide who is rhythm and who is lead.

[ROCKBANDFANATIC7526]

Joe King, Ric Ocasek, or Kele Okereke for Rhythm Guitar?

[Soratar]

I'll try to help out as much as I can. This seems like a cool idea. (Don't worry, I won't be requesting members of Relient K all the time. :p)

[Soratar]

Joe King, Ric Ocasek, or Kele Okereke for Rhythm Guitar?

I second Kele for Rhythm Guitar.

[a21schizoidman]

like i told you last night Mike, my vote right now is for Bob Mothersbaugh

[Lt Pepper]

how about eric clapton? his bluesy playing style could go well with the new wave genre we're going towards.

[Soratar]

Wait, are we aiming for New Wave? I thought that we were going to decide that after the band members were chosen.

[Gowienczyk]

New Wave / Post-Punk is obviously what is most fitting so far with the individual members chosen!

[CommonCriminal]

Edwyn Collins is my pick. :)

[Gowienczyk]

Seems this thread could use some boosted interest and another go, I really hate bumping dead ends; but this could be interesting discussions if we actually talked about musicians in the project more than dropping lists.

While Kele seems to be the choice for secondary guitarist so far, I think given the ages of the band's other members it could be offsetting. I'm leaning towards being in favor of Bob Mothersbaugh or Ric Ocasek. Thoughts?

Current band set up is:

Stewart Copeland (percussion)
Kathy Valentine (bass)
Guy Picciotto (guitars)

[Runesmith]

I'm going to throw in a curveball and say Robert Smith for rhythm guitar.

[a21schizoidman]

Seems this thread could use some boosted interest and another go, I really hate bumping dead ends; but this could be interesting discussions if we actually talked about musicians in the project more than dropping lists.

While Kele seems to be the choice for secondary guitarist so far, I think given the ages of the band's other members it could be offsetting. I'm leaning towards being in favor of Bob Mothersbaugh or Ric Ocasek. Thoughts?

Current band set up is:

Stewart Copeland (percussion)
Kathy Valentine (bass)
Guy Picciotto (guitars)

considering who's already listed, i would have to go with Bob for this, as i think his guitar style is more fitting that Ric's


I'm going to throw in a curveball and say Robert Smith for rhythm guitar.

that fits too

[Gowienczyk]

Bob Mothersbaugh, Robert Smith or Ric Ocasek... any arguments on why each are solid standalone choices? or even complimentary to Picciotto? I haven't heard enough of The Cars to really pinpoint reasons Ocasek is a better choice then Smith or Mothersbaugh; hell, even my experience with Devo is minimal at best.