Pedal Not Forgotten....

[MOFO]

HMX has been ignoring my messages it seems. I'm hoping they answer this one. For those of you don't know I'm in a wheelchair and would like HMX to make it to where I am able to play this game without the pedal. I don't mean none of that "just ignore it stuff" either. I don't see why I shouldn't be able to 100% a song. I hope this thread does not get closed or ignored. Thank you all.

[SoulScreme]

HMX has been ignoring my messages it seems. I'm hoping they answer this one. For those of you don't know I'm in a wheelchair and would like HMX to make it to where I am able to play this game without the pedal. I don't mean none of that "just ignore it stuff" either. I don't see why I shouldn't be able to 100% a song. I hope this thread does not get closed or ignored. Thank you all.

So, wait, you want Harmonix to change the entire gameplay because of one person? I mean, it sucks, I get it. But would you expect them to include Braille reader support for the blind? I mean, you're in a wheelchair and that suck, but it also means you can't play with the drum peripheral, or you need to accept not doing well on drums. It's just fact of life. You can't expect companies to go around modifying products to fit one person's specific needs.

I don't mean to be a jerk and I totally feel for you, but I do feel you're being rather unreasonable.

[The Flaming Carrot]

Well unfortunately, I've never seen a drummer that was handicapped. Sorry, I doubt it will happen.

[davidshek]

Well unfortunately, I've never seen a drummer that was handicapped. Sorry, I doubt it will happen.

Never? You sure about that?

Perhaps I could point you towards Rick Allen? Def Leppard's 1-armed drummer? Ringing any bells yet? :)

[SoulScreme]

Never? You sure about that?

Perhaps I could point you towards Rick Allen? Def Leppard's 1-armed drummer? Ringing any bells yet? :)

But his legs work... so, not really applicable. Though he is awesome. Sadly that band went down hill, saw them at Live 8 in Philadelphia. They all sounded great except Joe Elliot who sounded like he had emphysema.

[Hearshotkid02]

I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the full version of Rock Band, or if you've been told this before... But before the game came out and the Best Buy near me had a demo(I don't think it was the full version) set up, the drum set had no kick pedal. And if I remember correctly i 99%'d In Bloom on Hard, and missing ALL of the kick hits I think would equate to less than 99%. Not sure how that worked, or if I'm just not remember it right at all, but thought it might help.

[EliteXFactor]

How about the guy from the band Big Toe? He's an awesome bassist...not sure if he plays guitar but he has no arms. Inspirational musician.



http://disableddrummers.org/ I saw an ad in the back of Drum! magazine for disabled drummers but if you're only concerned about Rock Band drums then disregard that link.

[r0ckst@r]

I'm sure you'll make a really good guitarist. Or you could hire someone to tap your bass pedal for you.

[Shockz0rz]

Like Hearshotkid mentioned--the Best Buy demo version lacks a kick-pedal, and thus automatically hits the kick pedal for you. I see no reason why Harmonix couldn't patch in an option to do this for the disabled RBers out there. They probably would have to exclude everyone using said option from the online leaderboards, and possibly online play in general, but it still seems only fair.

[CENACHAINGANG54]

I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the full version of Rock Band, or if you've been told this before... But before the game came out and the Best Buy near me had a demo(I don't think it was the full version) set up, the drum set had no kick pedal. And if I remember correctly i 99%'d In Bloom on Hard, and missing ALL of the kick hits I think would equate to less than 99%. Not sure how that worked, or if I'm just not remember it right at all, but thought it might help.
HmxSean has posted this in a thread before. He stated that the stores requested the instore demo to not have the kick pedal so they made it where the kick hits were automatic. However there is not real way to do this and make it fair on the leader boards. You say you 99% but toss the kick in there and it is a whole new game.

[WildBillKickoff]

One other possibility would be to mod your kit to where you can add a 5th pad to simulate your bass kick. I don't know how bad your disability is, but if you're handy with wiring and PVC pipe, this could probably be done without too much trouble.

[cb150]

Rick Allen, Def Lepard's drummer had to work really hard and relearn the drums after he lost his arm. You're disabled so you're going to have to also work hard and figure out a solution to your problem. Other people can't fix your problems for you. I wish you the best.

Chris

[davidshek]

But his legs work... so, not really applicable.

His legs work, so he's not handicapped? I'd have to disagree with you there, and he probably would too :)

He didn't say he knew of no paralyzed-from-the-waist-down drummers, he said 'handicapped drummers'

[MOFO]

This thread isn't a ****ing joke people, look I'm not asking no one to go and completely rewrite the game repackage and remarket it. I just want a simple cheat to disable it and disable leaderboards and whatever else is needed. You guys ended up making a joke of it, well its not. What I want is simple, wouldn't we all agree? If you don't then you're just being ignorant because to include some sort code that could make it hit the bass line on the drums automatically, doesn't seem that hard. If anything its one of the more easier problems to fix in the game. I know you all said I'm just one person and don't matter but I believe I do. I supported the company since frequency and even music generator *that was them right?). So I know this seems unlikely or impossible but if I don't speak up then it becomes even less probable. Also instead of saying stupid like "yeah hire someone to do it for you" why can't you say something a bit more supportive like "C'mon HMX lets try and help this guy out".

[hmxsean]

HMX has been ignoring my messages it seems.

We haven't been ignoring you, there have actually been a number of threads on this issue and we have even posted. I have forwarded along those comments to the rest of the dev team to look at in the future.

[Eman311]

This thread isn't a ****ing joke people, look I'm not asking no one to go and completely rewrite the game repackage and remarket it. I just want a simple cheat to disable it and disable leaderboards and whatever else is needed. You guys ended up making a joke of it, well its not. What I want is simple, wouldn't we all agree? If you don't then you're just being ignorant because to include some sort code that could make it hit the bass line on the drums automatically, doesn't seem that hard. If anything its one of the more easier problems to fix in the game. I know you all said I'm just one person and don't matter but I believe I do. I supported the company since frequency and even music generator *that was them right?). So I know this seems unlikely or impossible but if I don't speak up then it becomes even less probable. Also instead of saying stupid like "yeah hire someone to do it for you" why can't you say something a bit more supportive like "C'mon HMX lets try and help this guy out".

considering it was in the best buy demo, i'm sure they already have the fundamentals of turning off the pedal in place.

now' i;m sure they're looking into it, but at the same time, I wouldn't expect any news on it anytime soon.

[arsohn]

One other possibility would be to mod your kit to where you can add a 5th pad to simulate your bass kick. I don't know how bad your disability is, but if you're handy with wiring and PVC pipe, this could probably be done without too much trouble.

that wouldn't work, he may be disabled, but I don't think he has three arms either.

remember lots of times, you're required to hit the kick drum, and two of the drum pads at the same time.

[shoombabi]

This guy isn't asking to play "Track and Field" or "DDR"

I see absolutely no reason why an auto-kick option is should not be in the game, and I was actually quite surprised to see that there wasn't this option when I first booted up the game. Of course, I come from the bemani series which allows you to add quite a few modifiers, but I think auto-kick would not only be extremely useful for a handicapped person, but as well as to beginners looking to start without an overwhelming amount of input. Even Easy mode for some people is too much when they have to separate 2 arms and their foot.

Anyway, I hope this gets implemented. A "cheat" that disables leaderboards while using this should be perfectly acceptable.

[shoombabi]

that wouldn't work, he may be disabled, but I don't think he has three arms either.

remember lots of times, you're required to hit the kick drum, and two of the drum pads at the same time.

Perhaps custom drumsticks with a trigger that allows you to hit the bass pedal note?

[mohkilla]

you guys should not be a jerk to MOFO ...he has it worse than we do..we can walk and he cant...stop being *******s... they can always add an option to have auto-bass in offline quickplay/multiplay only.....

[Bakkster]

One other possibility would be to mod your kit to where you can add a 5th pad to simulate your bass kick. I don't know how bad your disability is, but if you're handy with wiring and PVC pipe, this could probably be done without too much trouble.

This was mentioned in another thread. A quick forum search should find it for you. It's not a perfect solution, and you'll likely never succeed on expert (from the kick + 2 pads beats) but it's a pretty cool possibility.


you guys should not be a jerk to MOFO ...he has it worse than we do..we can walk and he cant...stop being *******s... they can always add an option to have auto-bass in offline quickplay/multiplay only.....

Ditto. This wasn't his choice, and this should hardly be a game-stopping disability. Anyone who makes fun of this kind of thing: I hope you never get to play online BWT/bass career/whatever pointless nitpick you have. Even that is something you can choose to ignore and still allows you to play the game, so cut the guy some slack.

[CowboyGP]

HMX has been ignoring my messages it seems. I'm hoping they answer this one. For those of you don't know I'm in a wheelchair and would like HMX to make it to where I am able to play this game without the pedal. I don't mean none of that "just ignore it stuff" either. I don't see why I shouldn't be able to 100% a song. I hope this thread does not get closed or ignored. Thank you all.

MOFO: Just a thought, but if you could find the right person, it might be do-able. As I understand it, the drum pads are essentially switches, as is the kick pedal. They sell electronic drum pads at music stores. If you could locate someone with the proper electrical talent, I bet they could wire a store-bought pad to the switch from your kick pedal. Then you could just mount it near your RB kit and you'd have 5 stick-pads instead of 4.

The main shortcoming of this idea (assuming its possible) is that the likelyhood of 100% on many songs will be impossible what with only 2 sources of input (your hands). But they say the orange and red notes are the most important, so you could probably learn to get by with only missing occasional blues, yellows and greens.

I suggest this idea for 2 reasons: First, it is a distinct possiblilty that HMX will be unwilling or unable to supply you with a version like the in-store demo others have suggested. Second, if they did you would definitely be kept off of the leaderboards and such.

A second idea, and forgive me if this sounds idiotic--- just throwing it out there: might you be able to mount the pedal to the arm of your chair and use your elbow? If this is a stupid or thoughtless idea, its not intentional. I'm just trying to think of ways that might allow you to maintain the full experience of the game. With a little modification, it might be possible under the right circumstances. And with A LOT of practice.

Best of luck to you, I'm sure there is a solution out there, even if mine isn't it.

Edit: After posting the above, I read the rest of pages 2 and 3. The idea of a trigger wired to one of your sticks might work, too. Obviously, these are all ideas to help you be able to get the full experience. If you're not interested in leaderboards/achievements/online, etc, then I agree that the cheat/patch you're requesting is more than fair. And it sounds like it may yet happen, just not right away.

And to the idiot who made the "no hands" comment: Karma can be a real *****. You'll see what I mean when she pays you a visit. And she will.

[Abspara]

C'mon Harmonix, let's help this guy out. If not for his benefit, it sure would be helpful for many people out there who have a hard time coordinating hand & foot action. Just put in a "cheat' and disable the leaderboards for those who use the cheat.

[SoulScreme]

you guys should not be a jerk to MOFO ...he has it worse than we do..we can walk and he cant...stop being *******s... they can always add an option to have auto-bass in offline quickplay/multiplay only.....

We're not being jerks (most of us), we're simply saying that to cater to one person's disability opens the flood gates. I mean, if you have disabilities in your hands you can't play guitar. There is no auto-orange for people without pinky fingers. Luckily, though disabled, he can enjoy 3/4 of the game (guitar, vocals, and bass). I just don't think that listening for a very small minority would set a good example. The game is meant to be played with the bass pedal. If this change were made you'd have everybody and their mother clamoring for fixes. Given the current state of these forums, more of it would be awful. As I said, I feel for him, but I just don't feel the patch is necessary.

[vet1290]

So, wait, you want Harmonix to change the entire gameplay because of one person? I mean, it sucks, I get it. But would you expect them to include Braille reader support for the blind? I mean, you're in a wheelchair and that suck, but it also means you can't play with the drum peripheral, or you need to accept not doing well on drums. It's just fact of life. You can't expect companies to go around modifying products to fit one person's specific needs.

I don't mean to be a jerk and I totally feel for you, but I do feel you're being rather unreasonable.


SoulScreme you are way out of line. How inconsiderate and naive of you. He has every right to ask Harmonix. Many companies including the one I work for will modify products to help out the handicapped when it is possible. Why should handicapped folks be left out? You have got some real moral issues! I can not believe the moderators allow this blatant rudeness in these forums. Your a real class act.

[BugMeNot]

Multiple people have fashioned their own pedals usings speaker wire, a push button from Radio Shack, and a male connector of the appropriate size. It should be relatively easy to do this same thing, but, instead of mounting the button on a pedal, put it somewhere you can use it. Where a good place would be is another question, but I'm sure you can figure something out. I'd say putting it between your arm and your side (so it activates when you do a chicken wing motion) might be easiest to do without making hitting pads at the same time a much more complicated motion. Or you could mount it under your chin or something, but it seems like that would get irritating fast.

[PHiNiX]

So, wait, you want Harmonix to change the entire gameplay because of one person? I mean, it sucks, I get it. But would you expect them to include Braille reader support for the blind? I mean, you're in a wheelchair and that suck, but it also means you can't play with the drum peripheral, or you need to accept not doing well on drums. It's just fact of life. You can't expect companies to go around modifying products to fit one person's specific needs.

I don't mean to be a jerk and I totally feel for you, but I do feel you're being rather unreasonable.

can you be more of a ******, read your post before you post, your tellin me that there is only one handicapped person in a wheelchair that owns an xbox it wouldnt be hard for harmonix to set it up so you can play with out the pedal in quickplay.

(it wouldnt go on any leaderboards) but at least the person can play)

+
i know alot of people who would love to be able to rock without the bass pedal (read the forums)

insted of poo pooing somthing why dont you find a solution.

[SoulScreme]

SoulScreme you are way out of line. How inconsiderate and naive of you. He has every right to ask Harmonix. Many companies including the one I work for will modify products to help out the handicapped when it is possible. Why should handicapped folks be left out? You have got some real moral issues! I can not believe the moderators allow this blatant rudeness in these forums. Your a real class act.

Excuse me, I think you're the one who is out of line here. How dare you question my morality based on one instance where I think a product should not be modified. I am not going to be upset if it is, I am simply saying I think it's a tricky situation for Harmonix. I also think there are a number of other game related issues that need to be addressed first. I am not being inconsiderate nor am I being naive. I am being realistic. The reality of the situation is that he is a customer just like any other and his complaint/request should be looked at no differently. I have many disabled friends and a few disabled family members. I think that if you treat his request any differently from a request for the same thing from an able bodied person, you are doing him a severe injustice. It's patronizing in my opinion. His request is not entirely invalid, but I don't think it's a priority. As I've said, he can enjoy the game in 3 ways other than playing the drums. I'm sorry if my opinion isn't politically correct enough for you, however, I am not politically correct. As I said in my original statement, I feel for him. I am not some heartless child sitting here finding this amusing. I simply believe that modifying the entire game for one person is an unfeasible request. I may be wrong, and if they can do it easily and quickly without compromising the experience for the rest of us, I'm all for it. But, if you want to talk about morals, remember this phrase from the bible, "Judge let lest ye be judged."

[SoulScreme]

Also, the intimation that I should be banned from the forums for having a different opinion than you is ridiculous. I did not insult the original poster and I did not purposefully disrespect him. The last time I checked the entire point of a forum is for people of differing opinions to discuss topics.

[Credge]

As some have said, the bass pedal is only a trigger. It would be very possible to get 100% on many, if not all, of the songs if there was simply another pad. I can't recall seeing a single song for the drums that has three notes hit at once. Just in case they don't respond in a positive way (not talking about you sean =P), here is a suggestion or two.

The bass pedal isn't necessarily useless to you. Depending on the chair you sit, you could possibly rig up the bass pedal under your arm, making your elbow usable. There are some drawbacks to this, though and it would definitely take some getting used to.

You could also use your hand to activate it by placing it somewhere close to your hands, perhaps on top of something on your lap, effectively using it for those songs where there is kick and snare at the same time.

Soulscreme, the issue is that you don't understand the issue. By simply saying "Tough luck", you're downplaying the disability. Instead of offering encouragement or suggesting ideas, you suggest he do something else. It's very poor taste.

[SoulScreme]

As some have said, the bass pedal is only a trigger. It would be very possible to get 100% on many, if not all, of the songs if there was simply another pad. I can't recall seeing a single song for the drums that has three notes hit at once. Just in case they don't respond in a positive way (not talking about you sean =P), here is a suggestion or two.

The bass pedal isn't necessarily useless to you. Depending on the chair you sit, you could possibly rig up the bass pedal under your arm, making your elbow usable. There are some drawbacks to this, though and it would definitely take some getting used to.

You could also use your hand to activate it by placing it somewhere close to your hands, perhaps on top of something on your lap, effectively using it for those songs where there is kick and snare at the same time.

Soulscreme, the issue is that you don't understand the issue. By simply saying "Tough luck", you're downplaying the disability. Instead of offering encouragement or suggesting ideas, you suggest he do something else. It's very poor taste.

No way man, I'm all for him finding a creative solution. I'm also not against this being changed at some point. But, for instance, the bassist for the band Big Toe has been mentioned. He learned to play the bass with his feet all on his own. I simply think it builds more character to find a creative solution. Nothing is gained in this world without effort. I am what you might consider disabled in a different way. I suffer from clinical depression, a condition that not only requires me to take pills every day but often can effect my ability to concentrate and the medication effects my short term memory. However, through strong will and perseverance I've over come it. As I've said, I feel for the original poster. I empathize with him. However, more is gained, both in pride and in character, by dealing with the current system and not allowing it to stop him from dumming.

[SoulScreme]

Also, here is a suggestion. I'm not sure of your mobility in your lumbar region, and it wouldn't be feasible for Expert, but for easy and medium you might find success playing while sitting in a rocking chair. You could place the pedal under one of the rocking feet of the chair and rock to activate the kick.

I did realize that I meant to be positive but offered no solution.

EDIT: Be sure to put some type of padding on the rocking foot of the chair as the pedal is only plastic and you don't want to crack it.

[SSPWOLF]

Not to interject in a boiling pot without purpose, but I'd simply like to submit that the allegation that this guy doesn't deserve a little attention from Harmonix is ridiculous and insipid. I concur with Soulscreme that there are times in life where forging ahead bravely through disability and creating solutions through perseverence is entirely more rewarding than allowing others so solve your problems.....

BUT THIS IS A FU$%&G VIDEO GAME

This kid/man has to wheel himself to school/work (if he's even afforded the luxury of leaving home) he has to watch people run and jump on tv while he sits there. He has to contemplate simple things in life like "using the restroom" in ways that those of us with full mobility take sweetly for granted.

Let the damn kid enjoy a friggin' video game without having to fight for it like he does EVERYTHING else in his life.

Sorry but I'd like to submit that I'd rather wait on every single other "fix" the game you allege "needs" in order to get this ONE KID the ability to play the drums and have the kick go on auto.

I'd be willing to be that most of us feel the same way.

If you play video games for any other reason than escapism, entertainment, distraction, or socializing then you may very well have a bigger problem than clinical depression.

I hope I don't come off as overtly scathing, but I find the submission that your moral compass needs some fine tuning, soulscreme, to be spot on. Politically correct or not; your view of what a person should endure in the daily struggle of life versus how much enjoyment they are entitled to in the wonderful escape of gaming is repugnant at worst and disturbing at best.


Best of luck to the kid in the wheelchair, I hope Harmonix sets a fine example and shows a dedication to bringing thier brand of entertainment to the hale, hearty, and handicapped alike.

[bart2712]

i agree with most of you on this topic, and actually i was kindof wondering the same thing...such as, if you dont connect the kick pedal would the game still require you to use it? Like those demos that were in stores, they had no kick pedal so it hit the beat for you...i was just kinda curious as to whether itd do the same thing with the full game but i havent actually tried it. If there was something to that affect it may make things a lot easier for some people, granted i can just practice a lot and eventually get used to it, but some ppl just are not able to use the kick pedal for various reasons. And I agree rigging up another pad could be a doable solution...would just mean missing a few notes, but even in the lessons it states hitting kick beats and the red are more important than the others...sure itd take some practice to get used to, but at least he could get a higher score that way than not using the kick pedal at all.

[bart2712]

Also, I was thinking about this...and couldnt he have someone rig up double pads for him kinda like real electronic drums? like add in a pad that triggers red and yellow, or red and blue, etc.? adding in a new pad for kick pedal, and also one each for the double hits could possibly allow him to still get 100% on songs once he got used to it, also providing he knew someone that was able to rig it up for him.

[Sarge51]

Topic Creater, What would you suggest exactly? Your hands would be completely occupied playing the drums themselves, So you couldn't just press a button or something when it came up. Maybe an extra 'drum' you can use that'll send the same signal as the kick pedal? But I think that would ruin the fun.

[WildBillKickoff]

Also, I was thinking about this...and couldnt he have someone rig up double pads for him kinda like real electronic drums? like add in a pad that triggers red and yellow, or red and blue, etc.? adding in a new pad for kick pedal, and also one each for the double hits could possibly allow him to still get 100% on songs once he got used to it, also providing he knew someone that was able to rig it up for him.

That's actually a viable solution, providing TC has room in his home for an 11 pad kit-- four regular pads, kick, and six possible two pad combinations-- and someone in his area with the technical knowhow to make it happen.

One reason I would tend to support the "do-it-yourself if possible" approach as opposed to asking HMX for help would be that from a legal aspect, once HMX makes a game modification for one person or set of people, be that in software, hardware, or otherwise, they could open themselves up to lawsuits from others who have handicaps that are not reasonably addressed-- such as a blind singer requesting the option to have an in-game voice state how well you did on a phrase to give him audio feedback the same way a normal-sighted person would have the visual feedback of "awesome" or "strong".

I'm not saying that TC should be ignored, I'm just saying that it's not so simple an issue for HMX to simply add a few lines of code. Those few lines of code could open a Pandora's Box for them that would have them catering to each individual's situation. If it sucks up enough of their resources, it could lead to DLC being delayed or even ignored (or other problems). The very same posters asking HMX to fix this would be the first to crucify them for not living up to their promise of "thousands of DLC songs".

The guys and girls at HMX are smart people, and they will figure out a solution that works for everyone. That does nothing to help TC, which we all want, but I'm hoping that someone smarter than me will come up with something.

[SoulScreme]

Not to interject in a boiling pot without purpose, but I'd simply like to submit that the allegation that this guy doesn't deserve a little attention from Harmonix is ridiculous and insipid. I concur with Soulscreme that there are times in life where forging ahead bravely through disability and creating solutions through perseverence is entirely more rewarding than allowing others so solve your problems.....

BUT THIS IS A FU$%&G VIDEO GAME

This kid/man has to wheel himself to school/work (if he's even afforded the luxury of leaving home) he has to watch people run and jump on tv while he sits there. He has to contemplate simple things in life like "using the restroom" in ways that those of us with full mobility take sweetly for granted.

Let the damn kid enjoy a friggin' video game without having to fight for it like he does EVERYTHING else in his life.

Sorry but I'd like to submit that I'd rather wait on every single other "fix" the game you allege "needs" in order to get this ONE KID the ability to play the drums and have the kick go on auto.

I'd be willing to be that most of us feel the same way.

If you play video games for any other reason than escapism, entertainment, distraction, or socializing then you may very well have a bigger problem than clinical depression.

I hope I don't come off as overtly scathing, but I find the submission that your moral compass needs some fine tuning, soulscreme, to be spot on. Politically correct or not; your view of what a person should endure in the daily struggle of life versus how much enjoyment they are entitled to in the wonderful escape of gaming is repugnant at worst and disturbing at best.


Best of luck to the kid in the wheelchair, I hope Harmonix sets a fine example and shows a dedication to bringing thier brand of entertainment to the hale, hearty, and handicapped alike.

See, the way I figure is the drumming portion of a game seems to be a part of the game that the designers have decided requires your feet. They've said before that they think that offering the option to disable this would belittle their game. I see it as being no different from a game that requires fast reactions time, problem solving abilities, the use of vocal chords, etc. I think that it would be great if he could play, but I assume you all have not read the developers thoughts on removing the kick pedal. I have to get to work, but a search around the forums should help. Now, granted, this was in response to pedal who could use it but did not want to. But, I just think that the developers should not have to betray their artistic vision of the game if they don't feel it is appropriate. If I were the developers, I would do it. Hell, I'd probably send the guy an extra guitar. But, like I said, video games require many different abilities that some people have and some people do not. It seems to me that the ability to use the kick pedal, whether physically or mentally, is one that the developers wish the require. And, as artists, I think that it is their right to do so.

[Bluvox]

Rick Allen, Def Lepard's drummer had to work really hard and relearn the drums after he lost his arm. You're disabled so you're going to have to also work hard and figure out a solution to your problem.

He had a lot of money and endorsements to help him, too. Oh yeah, and he lost his arm because of drunk driving, just for clarity's sake. Drinking has been the bane of hard rock since before the 80's. He also gets to make his own music, and decide his own style, thus changing the playing field a lot.


Other people can't fix your problems for you. I wish you the best.


The guy might be frustrated in his posts, and he just wants to enjoy the game ... just like you. If there is a way to "auto-kick", so be it. Since there are 3 pad that have to be hit (including the pedal) a 2 stick solution would be nearly impossible to get right. I guess he could head bang or something...

Sean - Thanks for the post, I'm sure the guy appreciates getting a response. I know y'all are working hard at looking at everyone's concerns. And I know you don't hear "thank you" enough.

And to all the folks saying "it's not like that in real life, so get over it". You aren't a rock star in real life, you are playing a fantasy. Get over yourselves, please. You're getting a little dork there in your shirt, nevermind, that's your personalities.

[bart2712]

good points, and i agree we dont say thank you enough to sean...as much as we can all complain, overall this is an awesome game and im enjoying it fully altho i still have trouble with some parts, like currently trying to learn the drums lol. Im just waiting to see what kindof new awesome DLC well get for it...playing same songs all the time gets old, so great to have some DLC once in awhile to change it up.

[batsu336]

Couple of things...

I think that people are correct in saying that the game is not going to change to accomodate those in a wheelchair or similar type of situation. You still have complete access to 3 out of 4 instruments. It's not as though you were taken by surprise when you opened the box and found a kick pedal. Everyone knew well in advance that there was going to be a kick pedal.

Second, as others have pointed out, the kick trigger could be moved to use with an arm. You could easily replace the pedal with a pad you can strike with your sticks, elbow, etc.

Third, I don't believe others are being crass or "insipid" by saying, in essence, tough luck. I think what they are trying to say is that handicap people know what their specific limitation might be. You also know what the game requirements are. To buy the game and then expect the game to cater to your needs is irrational. It would be like buying a car if you had no license, and then asking for a law change so people did not need a license to drive. Not going to happen. You either figure out a way to get your license, or you sell the car.

I'm all for seeing somone create a way to make the foot pedal viable for those in wheelchairs, but don't lay it at the feet of Harmonix. You knew what you were getting when you chose to purchase the game.

[SoulScreme]

Couple of things...

I think that people are correct in saying that the game is not going to change to accomodate those in a wheelchair or similar type of situation. You still have complete access to 3 out of 4 instruments. It's not as though you were taken by surprise when you opened the box and found a kick pedal. Everyone knew well in advance that there was going to be a kick pedal.

Second, as others have pointed out, the kick trigger could be moved to use with an arm. You could easily replace the pedal with a pad you can strike with your sticks, elbow, etc.

Third, I don't believe others are being crass or "insipid" by saying, in essence, tough luck. I think what they are trying to say is that handicap people know what their specific limitation might be. You also know what the game requirements are. To buy the game and then expect the game to cater to your needs is irrational. It would be like buying a car if you had no license, and then asking for a law change so people did not need a license to drive. Not going to happen. You either figure out a way to get your license, or you sell the car.

I'm all for seeing somone create a way to make the foot pedal viable for those in wheelchairs, but don't lay it at the feet of Harmonix. You knew what you were getting when you chose to purchase the game.

Wow, I was starting to think I was insane. Thank you, that is exactly how I feel.


See guys, I'm not the devil like you seem to think, batsu is!
LOL
J/K

[webduelist]

OP: dude I agree with you 100 % but it would make it way to easy to get really high scores online but my uncle is in a wheel chair and he was really looking forward to getting to play the drums sence he cant in real life anymore. They would need to find a way turning it off for a select few people but leaving it on for the rest, but then It would get leaked and blah blah blah. sry I agree that there should be a way to take if off but I just dont see how it could be done.

[Teh_Nfsjunkie91]

This thread has actually inspired me to work on something that could activate the kick-drum through use of a switch on the drum stick. To be honest, the "kick pedal under arm" idea sounds too impractical, and would most likely be painful on the elbow. I'm in an engineering class, so I'll bring in the kick pedal to my teacher, and work out a way to get this working. If I do accomplish this (I'm lazy, but I'll try) I'll post back here with results and a video.

Good luck until then.

[LaThib]

MOFO you could try this idea and it should be pretty easy to do.

Get a drumstick (bigger then the supplied ones with rockband 1/2" or bigger diameter). Hold it and mark where your thumb lands and drill a 3/8" hole there to insert this momentary switch (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?parentPage=search&pg=1&summary=summary&cp=&productId=2062546&accessories=accessories&kw=switches&techSpecs=techSpecs&currentTab=features&custRatings=custRatings&features=features&sr=1&retainProdsInSession=1&origkw=switches&support=support&numProdsPerPage=50&tab=summary). Connect a wire from the switch to a 1/8" phone plug (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104063&cp=2032058.2032231.2032280&pg=2&parentPage=family). You can tape the wire along the drumstick so it dosen't disconnect from the switch.

If you could get good at using your thumb for the bass notes you should be good to go. Hope this helps you and good luck.

[jlf278]

First off, I think both sides have valid points here. You shouldn't expect Harmonix to solve the problem for you, but you certainly should feel free to ask them to do so. Since the demo had an auto-pedal, it may be an easy fix, but no one outisde of harmonix really knows that. Aside from a software fix, it's great that a couple people are thinking about possible solutions.

A fifth pad would probably be a good near-solution, though adding more pads would require much more extensive rewiring and inclusion of additional electrical components...plus it's probably best to keep it simple. However I think the better solution is to relocate the pedal input to another action It would require much less modding, possibly even foregoing professional work. As a musician, I would not recommend using any part of your arms. As an engineer, I'd recommend using your teeth. It might sound weird, but a slimmed down pedal with a small spring would probably be the most practical fix. My only other idea is to wire a mic to the pedal input so that a loud sound would register the bass hit, however this would likely respond poorly with too much difficulty in adjusting it to a practical sensitivity.

[arsohn]

Ok everyone is way off base here, and completely full of BS and political correctness.

Fact. Business are most succesful when they can create a product that can meet the largest target audience.

Fact. Business will never be able to address ever issue/complaint/bug in a product, meaning they will never be able to make everyone happy. (COMMUNISM DOESN'T WORK!)

Fact. The drummer for Def Leppard was able to do what he did, because he was already famous and had lots of $$$$$$. Also lets not forget to mention, he was not disabled previously, he lost his arm because he was driving drunk. Not to take away from his accomplishments now, but keep things in perspective when making comparisons.

Fact. If you open the door to making a game easier for one person, then the next thing you know, you will be having to make changes for EVERYONE! Or you will be dealing with lawsuits, claims of unfair treatment etc.

Fact. What difference exists for those who just can't play the drums out of sheer skill? I love how so many people out there, are complaing about the game being too "difficult" and how they need to remove fan caps, the kick drum, etc. The idea is, Harmonix makes a game that simulates being in a REAL band, playing REAL instruments. So guess what, you're not going to find a whole lot of drummers out there who have missing limbs, are paralyzed etc. The ones who do...are either able to play because they have enough money to create an elaborate setup, or they vary their technique and play the drums to the best of their ability.

So it sounds to me, like he is playing the drums to the best of his ability, I just get really pissed off, when people start demanding things of private companies. Look notice the first thing Harmonix addressed via complaints, was the hardware issues, and now the PS3 guitar issue. Right there, it goes to show you, they attack the issues that hit the MAJORITY first. They are a business, and the motive of a business, is to make a profit, they risk losing a lot more money with unhappy PS3 owners and faulty hardware owners, then someone who can't use a drum pedal beacuse of a disablity.

Plain and simple, I understand the nobility of those who want to help him, but instead of clamoring around and going after Harmonix, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and those of you with skills to do it, try to devise a way for him to play the drums with the kick pedal.

Life isn't fair plain and simple we should do the best we can with what we have. But the minute you start demanding companies to address every issue with ever single customer out there you can say goodbye to innovatino and free choice in the marketplace. Explain why his needs are not more important then say someone who is blind who wants to play Rockband, should harmonix introduce a braille attachment? You go down a slippery slope when you start demanding what a company should do, and it's important to notice, Rock Band was not sold under false pretenses in regards to the kick drum, this guy did not go out thinking, hey I can disable the kick drum. Harmonix from day one stated, playing on the harder difficulties is like playing real drums. And as stated before, the overwhelming majority of drummers out there, are not disabled in such a way that prevents them from using their limbs.

If you have such a big issue with it, your best choice of action, is to return your game, and state to Harmonix why you are returning it in the form of a letter to the company, and how you think they should create more handicap accessible games. Speak through your actions and your $$$ not through your mouths, or in this case, internet posts.

I'm sure I'll be flamed and attacked and taken out of context, but I just wanted to state my views, I feel sympathy for him, just as I do others in similar situations, a good friend of mine is paralyzed from the next down, but you know what, he doesn't play rock band, he plays Wii. And he's quite happy with his experience and doesn't ask for special treatment.

That goes for anyone, whether they want the kick drum disabled because it's too hard in other threads I've seen or if you can't use your legs. The game is about playing drums as realistically as possible, so sorry, but disabling the kick drum takes away from that experience.

EDIT: Kudos to those of you trying to come up with a replacement system for him, that is excatly the kind of action we need in this world, instead of just sitting around and complaining what should be done, people are actually doing it.

May I also suggest, a mouth switch is most likely the best way to go, the friend I mentioned earlier, we were trying to develop a way for him to play airsoft with us, not exactly the easiest thing to do for a guy who only can move his head and his right arm, so we were developing a pressure switch to activate the trigger of the airsoft gun, and the pressure switch would be activated my a switch he simply had to bite down really hard on. We were planning on mounting the guns on his wheelchair, he had an electric one, so he was really looking forward to being a real live "tank" of sorts, sadly he went off to school before we could finish, but we still hope to finish it someday.

[batsu336]

See guys, I'm not the devil like you seem to think, batsu is!
LOL
J/K

I'm not the devil. I'm just the guy who throws the overly P.C. types onto the fireplace to stoke the devil's fireplace. After all, look at the translation of batsu...


in Japanese:
伐「ばつ」（batsu）＝to punish, to fell, to strike


Seriously, though, I just try to look at it from the most objective standpoint. It's not always the most sensitive or popular one.

Maybe check e-bay or a store to buy a demo version of the game? That would seem to be the easiest solution, provided you can find one.

[SoulScreme]

Nice post. Reiterates a number of things I mentioned. Nice to see some people one here not trying to demonize me.

[ChodTheWacko]

Fact. Business are most succesful when they can create a product that can meet the largest target audience.


Yes. Which is exactly why auto-bass should be implemented.
There are plenty of people, I am sure, who try Rock Band, find the drums too hard, and then don't buy the game. This is not in Harmonx's best interest, especially since one obvious fix should be fairly trivial. (re-enable Allowing Auto-bass, but then disable leaderboards).

Right now, there are people who either:
a) can't play the drums due to disability (or a broken pedal, for god's sake)
b) can't play the drums because they find them too hard. Let's face it, 'the 'easy' level is NOT easy.

You are currently losing sales for both of those people. Screw the 'too bad, you should be a better drumer' attitude. That is not in Harmonix's best interest.

I for one, would find it wonderful to be able to practice songs without the pedal, and then practice with the pedal.



Fact. If you open the door to making a game easier for one person, then the next thing you know, you will be having to make changes for EVERYONE! Or you will be dealing with lawsuits, claims of unfair treatment etc.

I'm pretty sure that's not true.
Harmonix has the right to solicit and apply suggestions they wish.
Just because they enable the PS3 GH3 guitar for example, doesn't mean they are
now required, or can be sued for not enabling support for the GH1 guitars.

Also, I don't think the OP was being whining or demanding.
He asked a question a few times, got no response (well, not directly, although he should have searched
more IMHO since it was responded in other threads), and made a post asking for a response.
And he was pretty well mannered about it. No big deal.





Fact. What difference exists for those who just can't play the drums out of sheer skill?

Lots.

What's the difference between a game that is fun and not fun? Games that are funner to more people sell more copies.



Look notice the first thing Harmonix addressed via complaints, was the hardware issues, and now the PS3 guitar issue. Right there, it goes to show you, they attack the issues that hit the MAJORITY first.

I work in software development, so let me point something out.

There are two types of things that take priority:
1) Things that affect a lot of people. It makes the work worth the effort.
2) Things that are easy to do that also affect quite a few people.
Again, it's bang for buck.

I think you underestimate how many people will benefit from a pedal free mode,
even if you can only use it in say, a high-score disabled quickplay mode.





That goes for anyone, whether they want the kick drum disabled because it's too hard in other threads I've seen or if you can't use your legs. The game is about playing drums as realistically as possible, so sorry, but disabling the kick drum takes away from that experience.


It doesn't matter. Hardcore People who play first person shooters also say that you shouldn't allow mid-game save points. If you aren't good enough to finish the game without dying, you suck anyway. Tough.

The realist says, 'more people will enjoy this game if you allow the savepoints.'.
If you doesn't want to use them, then don't. But, in the long term, it's a detriment to
the product to not allow mid-game savepoints.

And I think the same stance applies to the auto-bass.

Side whine: It was a silly choice to not at least have a 'super easy' mode which didn't use the bass petal. The Guitar hero games, on easy mode, don't the 5th fret. Same thing.

- Frank

[WildBillKickoff]

I'm pretty sure that's not true.
Harmonix has the right to solicit and apply suggestions they wish.
Just because they enable the PS3 GH3 guitar for example, doesn't mean they are
now required, or can be sued for not enabling support for the GH1 guitars.
- Frank

I'm pretty sure enabling old hardware to work with a new platform is not something covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act. Apples to oranges.

However, I do agree that if it's an easy fix, and if leaderboards can be disabled, HMX will do everything they can to make the game accessible. If nothing can be done, I think an amazing PR move would be to create the 11 pad kit, specially designed for the TC, with major fanfare and media coverage that shows what a caring company they are. Then, make the special kit available as a standalone kit available directly through the RB store for a nominal priceincrease over the regular kit, when it becomes available separately. Problem solved: you've got a happy disabled person on the Boston local news with Alex Rigopolous' smiling face next to him, happy paraplegic drummers, and a way to reach a niche market with an additional expensive piece of hardware.

[SoulScreme]

So basically, you just want them to go against their gut and against their artistic decision, which I'm sure was not made lightly, because a lot of people suck at drums?

[batsu336]

There are plenty of people, I am sure, who try Rock Band, find the drums too hard, and then don't buy the game. This is not in Harmonx's best interest, especially since one obvious fix should be fairly trivial. (re-enable Allowing Auto-bass, but then disable leaderboards).

Right now, there are people who either:
a) can't play the drums due to disability (or a broken pedal, for god's sake)
b) can't play the drums because they find them too hard. Let's face it, 'the 'easy' level is NOT easy.



Where did they try this game with the pedal functional and then not buy it? Demo modes had no pedal, and if they tried it at a friend's house...the friend already bought it....

My wife has never tried a drum set in her life, and quit trying to learn guitar because it was too hard. She was scoring 95% on easy after playing drums for one hour...so easy is not that tough if you actually stick with it for a couple songs.




Harmonix has the right to solicit and apply suggestions they wish.
Just because they enable the PS3 GH3 guitar for example, doesn't mean they are
now required, or can be sued for not enabling support for the GH1 guitars.


Yes, they have the right. Just like they they are not required to enable GH1 guitars, they are not required to make the bass pedal optional.



Also, I don't think the OP was being whining or demanding.
He asked a question a few times, got no response (well, not directly, although he should have searched
more IMHO since it was responded in other threads), and made a post asking for a response.
And he was pretty well mannered about it. No big deal.


Agreed. I may have missed the post where someone said the OP was whining. I think the real rub is with the posters who claim that Harmonix must fix this injustice. Like you said, they are not required.





What's the difference between a game that is fun and not fun? Games that are funner to more people sell more copies.


True, and every review I have seen gives this game a 9 out of 10 or better, depending on the rating scale used. Even those who got absolutely hosed on the crapped out software think the game is great when they post a review. I guess that means that a lot of people find it more fun...funner...



I work in software development, so let me point something out.

There are two types of things that take priority:
1) Things that affect a lot of people. It makes the work worth the effort.
2) Things that are easy to do that also affect quite a few people.
Again, it's bang for buck.

I think you underestimate how many people will benefit from a pedal free mode,
even if you can only use it in say, a high-score disabled quickplay mode.



3) User demand versus overhead costs. Directly related to 1) and 2)
If 100,000 gamers are arguing for the product to be changed, the company will spend $100,000 to make the change. If 100 people argue for that same change, the company will not spend the same money. I think there have been 4 different disabled gamers on the site asking about this same issue. I don't know know how much it would cost for Harmonix to code a patch for this "easy fix", but I know they won't do it for 4 people, even if they have 90 others supporting them. If it affects a lot of people but there is no big demand for it, again the company will not install it, in order to save on overhead, unless you are struggling to make yourself known in an overcrowded market. Last time I checked there weren't that many full band simulation games out there, so Rock Band has a monopoly on the market for right now. That's more of a business economics thing than a software development thing, but it is still relevant.

[Ajax2006]

Well since there's likely going to be no real solution, see if you can get a generous friend to just hit the kick pedal for you(he can just hold it and push).

[sawyer7as]

can you squeeze the bass pedal between your legs? soudns stupid but hey if it works

[ChodTheWacko]

So basically, you just want them to go against their gut and against their artistic decision, which I'm sure was not made lightly, because a lot of people suck at drums?

This is just my opinion, but I think that allowing someone to play without the pedal is any worse than allowing someone to play without the 5th fret on guitar hero.

It's makes it 100x easier since you don't need to shift up and down the neckboard,
but I don't think it's fundimentally different. When I"m playing a song and there is
very little bass pedal action, I don't suddenly feel like I'm not playing drums anymore.

[ChodTheWacko]

Where did they try this game with the pedal functional and then not buy it? Demo modes had no pedal, and if they tried it at a friend's house...the friend already bought it....


Anyone who buys the game will want to invite other people over to play it.
Ideally, you want THOSE people to then go buy the game, and invite other people
to come play and then buy it. To spread the Rock Band Virus, so to speak.

I plan on taking the game to a party, and I suspect some of my rhythmically
challenged friends will try it for a bit, give up, and then quit. If they stuck with it
for a while, then sure, they'd get better. But other people will be taking their turns,
and perhaps they won't get that chance.

Imagine if Guitar hero had no 'easy' level, and the easiest level was medium.
Would it do as well? I don't think so. How much worse though, that's the question.




Yes, they have the right. Just like they they are not required to enable GH1 guitars, they are not required to make the bass pedal optional.


Yep.
I'm not saying they have to (or need to) do this, but I am just adding more reasons that Harmonix should consider it. Like you said, the benefits may not be worth the work, in which case they would be stupid to do it.



I don't know know how much it would cost for Harmonix to code a patch for this "easy fix", but I know they won't do it for 4 people, even if they have 90 others supporting them.

I think you missed the point of my post.
I'm not suggesting this option should be added for the 4 (?) disabled people who want to play drums. I'm suggesting this should be done for the players who find 'easy' drums too hard, and are turned off as a result. I think there are far more of the latter.

- Frank

[ChodTheWacko]

Well since there's likely going to be no real solution, see if you can get a generous friend to just hit the kick pedal for you(he can just hold it and push).

I'm thinking this will be the temporary solution.
And why not? It allows a 5th player to play along.

[CowboyGP]

can you squeeze the bass pedal between your legs? soudns stupid but hey if it works

Um.. hello.. sawyer. The guy is in a wheelchair.... which generally means ones legs don't work. Nice effort, though.

I'd just like to post a couple of thoughts that I haven't seen yet as far as the whole "artisitic vision of RB" and the "private businesses catering to niche markets" idea.

If nothing else, we all know that the technology exists to allow a gamer to map different actions to different buttons on the controller. Plenty of existing games have this capability.

And allowing people to disable the kick pedal (while deactivating leaderboards and online competition) would in NO way hinder the artistic vision of the developers, nor would it be catering to a niche market. It would simply be an available option. There would be no reason for them to market the idea as "ADA compliant" or any other such "niche".

Here's an example for you: my 10 year old daughter is very small for her age and has very small hands. Stretching its furthest, her pinky simply cannot reach the blue fret on GH guitars or the Strat. So you should have seen her eyes light up when she learned that the higher buttons on the Strat can be used just like the lower ones.

And before you begin clammoring that she didn't write to Harmonix and specifically request smaller buttons, I will direct you to my above point. The smaller buttons were initially provided for solo's, but even Harmonix realized that kids and people with small hands can benefit from them. It's right there on the loading screen.

Providing the ability to turn off the kick pedal, or re-map the configuration is NOT stepping far afield of typical game development. Further it does nothing to impinge on the ability of the rest of us to enjoy the game to the fullest. By deactivating leaderboards, no one with the pedal deactivated could own the boards on the sly.

And in closing... I haven't heard anyone on this thread berating or belittling Harmonix for not thinking of this option beforehand. But now that it is out there, many of us agree that it is worth doing. I for one agree with the earlier poster who said they would be willing to delay gratification for other fixes until this one is accomplished.

If you think I'm merely saying this to be PC, I suggest you keep your eyes out for my posts. I'm new on this board, but my opinion is my opinion and has gotten me flamed more times than I can count for stating the unpopular.

I'm not suggesting your arguements don't have merit. I see where you're coming from. I just think that in this life you need to pick your battles. And I'm not ready to fight for the "purity" of a video game when it negatively effects a much larger portion of the population than you are ready to recognize. This idea hurts no one, and potentially helps many. As such I say go for it.

That being said, I hope that MOFO will look into some of the suggestions that I and others have made to enable him to enjoy the full RB drumming experience. I for one would love to see his name high on the leaderboards on XBL.

But there are PLENTY of people who don't take this stuff as seriously as many of us do. And if they just want to jam out at home with their friends on a fun, easy, accessable level -- we should support that.

[SoulScreme]

Like, I've said, I'm not fighting against it. I'm also not fighting for it. If Harmonix feels they want to do this, then good for them. I just don't think they have an OBLIGATION to do so which many have implied.

[eVan_Diesel]

Like, I've said, I'm not fighting against it. I'm also not fighting for it. If Harmonix feels they want to do this, then good for them. I just don't think they have an OBLIGATION to do so which many have implied.

They certainly don't.

What if I have no right arm? Are they supposed to make a guitar for me that strums?

[PHiNiX]

for one thing no they dont have na obligation, but its nice to have.

and you do have your right arm or else you wouldnt be playin a game console. and i dont think that there is anyone that plays a console and dosent have a missing arm

[Ultrace]

This guy isn't asking to play "Track and Field" or "DDR"

I see absolutely no reason why an auto-kick option is should not be in the game, and I was actually quite surprised to see that there wasn't this option when I first booted up the game. Of course, I come from the bemani series which allows you to add quite a few modifiers, but I think auto-kick would not only be extremely useful for a handicapped person, but as well as to beginners looking to start without an overwhelming amount of input. Even Easy mode for some people is too much when they have to separate 2 arms and their foot.

Anyway, I hope this gets implemented. A "cheat" that disables leaderboards while using this should be perfectly acceptable.
I feel for people unable to use their legs to do this as well, but if you're going to take it this far, why not put in an "auto-strum" option? After all, there are a number of people unable to use both arms, and this would allow them to use their good arm/hand to control the fretwork while the easier part was done for them.

Mind you, I don't think anyone would ask for that, because it seems absurd to take out the strumming portion of guitar. Just like it seems odd to take out the kick pedal portion of drums. The kick pedal is more difficult to master for most people (getting two hands to work together is easier than two hands and a foot), but it's just as integral.

If the auto-kick was implemented as an option, then I would expect both leaderboards and achievements (including any group achievements for the band in BWT) to be disabled while it is active.

[ChodTheWacko]

Mind you, I don't think anyone would ask for that, because it seems absurd to take out the strumming portion of guitar. Just like it seems odd to take out the kick pedal portion of drums. The kick pedal is more difficult to master for most people (getting two hands to work together is easier than two hands and a foot), but it's just as integral.


The former I agree with. Guitar without strumming? That's kind of bogus.
You could argue though, that being able to play the solo part without strumming is
equally bogus too, and I don't see people posting that. But I know some people play guitar
hero without a guitar controller and just use the regular controller. How does that work? Does it auto strum?

The latter statement I don't agree with. I think drumming without a kick pedal is still drumming. I consider marching band drummers to be legit drummers, and not some sort of 'fake pretend drumming' just because they don't use a kick pedal.

But hey, why not also add an option where you don't need the drum sticks, too?
Just use the mic and scream, 'RED RED GREEN GREEN KICK BLUE!!! and for overdrive, you yell, 'GO GO GADGET DRUMS!!!!!' That way I don't need my arms, either.

[PHiNiX]

i think there are people missing the point. no one with ONE AVAILABLE ARM owns a console there for there is no need to create an auto strumm feature..but i am a drummer thats never used a kick pedal

can we say high school marching band

[Bakkster]

The latter statement I don't agree with. I think drumming without a kick pedal is still drumming. I consider marching band drummers to be legit drummers, and not some sort of 'fake pretend drumming' just because they don't use a kick pedal.

True, but rock drumming depends very heavily on the kick pedal. It's not a coincedence that the Konks song is the only one without the kick drum being used.


i think there are people missing the point. no one with ONE AVAILABLE ARM owns a console

That's a very dangerous assumption. I don't think this is something that needs to me catered to, necessarily, but don't think that only having one arm is going to stop people from wanting to game.

I'm reminded of the version of Doom for the blind...

[5150]

It's sad to say that , Not everything made had the handicaped in mind.
Take the pedal apart and think Mcgiver. ;)

[PHiNiX]

YES because you know alot of people with one arm tryin to pwn noobs on halo

[ibender]

Perhaps custom drumsticks with a trigger that allows you to hit the bass pedal note?

that is actually a really cool idea. you could maybe have a button to hit with your thumb or a finger to trigger the kick drum.

also, a cheat that disables leaderboards and achievements and makes the kick drum automatic sounds perfectly reasonable.

[PHiNiX]

that is actually a really cool idea. you could maybe have a button to hit with your thumb or a finger to trigger the kick drum.

also, a cheat that disables leaderboards and achievements and makes the kick drum automatic sounds perfectly reasonable.

then whats goin to hold the drum sticks

[ibender]

then whats goin to hold the drum sticks

the idea is that there's a custom made drumstick that has a button on the side that you press with your thumb. there would be a very small wireless transmitter in the stick that sends a signal to a reciever that you plug into your drum kit's kick pedal jack. this allows people without the use of their legs to use the kick drum as long as they can still use both of their arms.

[sawyer7as]

Um.. hello.. sawyer. The guy is in a wheelchair.... which generally means ones legs don't work. Nice effort, though.

I'd just like to post a couple of thoughts that I haven't seen yet as far as the whole "artisitic vision of RB" and the "private businesses catering to niche markets" idea.

If nothing else, we all know that the technology exists to allow a gamer to map different actions to different buttons on the controller. Plenty of existing games have this capability.

And allowing people to disable the kick pedal (while deactivating leaderboards and online competition) would in NO way hinder the artistic vision of the developers, nor would it be catering to a niche market. It would simply be an available option. There would be no reason for them to market the idea as "ADA compliant" or any other such "niche".

Here's an example for you: my 10 year old daughter is very small for her age and has very small hands. Stretching its furthest, her pinky simply cannot reach the blue fret on GH guitars or the Strat. So you should have seen her eyes light up when she learned that the higher buttons on the Strat can be used just like the lower ones.

And before you begin clammoring that she didn't write to Harmonix and specifically request smaller buttons, I will direct you to my above point. The smaller buttons were initially provided for solo's, but even Harmonix realized that kids and people with small hands can benefit from them. It's right there on the loading screen.

Providing the ability to turn off the kick pedal, or re-map the configuration is NOT stepping far afield of typical game development. Further it does nothing to impinge on the ability of the rest of us to enjoy the game to the fullest. By deactivating leaderboards, no one with the pedal deactivated could own the boards on the sly.

And in closing... I haven't heard anyone on this thread berating or belittling Harmonix for not thinking of this option beforehand. But now that it is out there, many of us agree that it is worth doing. I for one agree with the earlier poster who said they would be willing to delay gratification for other fixes until this one is accomplished.

If you think I'm merely saying this to be PC, I suggest you keep your eyes out for my posts. I'm new on this board, but my opinion is my opinion and has gotten me flamed more times than I can count for stating the unpopular.

I'm not suggesting your arguements don't have merit. I see where you're coming from. I just think that in this life you need to pick your battles. And I'm not ready to fight for the "purity" of a video game when it negatively effects a much larger portion of the population than you are ready to recognize. This idea hurts no one, and potentially helps many. As such I say go for it.

That being said, I hope that MOFO will look into some of the suggestions that I and others have made to enable him to enjoy the full RB drumming experience. I for one would love to see his name high on the leaderboards on XBL.

But there are PLENTY of people who don't take this stuff as seriously as many of us do. And if they just want to jam out at home with their friends on a fun, easy, accessable level -- we should support that.

i didnt know if he was paralyzed from waste down or thighs down or knees etc. figured he might be able to pull his lgs into his groin. but the button in teh drumsticks is teh best idea, or atleast most ingenuitive idea i've seen so far...

[newtsdad]

Here is a simple solution that should work. Have someone attach a mercury switch (like in your furnace thermostat) to a ball cap. and then wire it to the connector that hooks to the drum pads. This way when the user moves his head forward and back it will register a bass beat. A lot of people bang there head along with the music anyway (me included), so this should be a pretty natural motion.

[surgesnugs]

Why are some people so defensive about having any sort of difficulty adjustment options for people? The simple solution is to have them, and just not allow scores achieved with them to go on the leaderboards. Why anyone would want to begrudge someone a simple feature request is beyond me. It's obviously possible to leave out the kick drum, based on the demo, so just add the option in the actual game.

[SoulScreme]

Why are some people so defensive about having any sort of difficulty adjustment options for people? The simple solution is to have them, and just not allow scores achieved with them to go on the leaderboards. Why anyone would want to begrudge someone a simple feature request is beyond me. It's obviously possible to leave out the kick drum, based on the demo, so just add the option in the actual game.

I think the problem is that Harmonix has said they don't want to do that.

[Nekura20x6]

There is no auto-orange for people without pinky fingers.

Actually, the easier difficulties don't use the orange note, so it's kinda like "auto orange".

The real problem is that many/most game designers don't think about accessibility when making their games.

Deaf gamers have a hard time because games still don't include constant subtitle support. Valve was responsible for one breakthrough with Half Life 2 that put environmental sounds (like the footsteps of someone sneaking up on you) in the subtitles. You'd think with functioning eyes and limbs they would be the easiest to include, but this kind of support is still an afterthought to most companies.

While I understand that you can't accommodate everyone in everything (how would you begin to create an FPS for the blind, for instance?), this seems like a pretty reasonable request. The proposed solution of turning on the bass pedal and disqualifying the result from the leaderboards sounds like a good trade off.

They already make allowances for left-handed people, so why not for those who can't use their legs?

[HiroXHakuske]

I wouldnt mind a patch with it. I'm sure there are more wheelchair accessable people that want to rock out too! (Also when my pedal broke... it sucked arse because no orange notes could be hit.) The idea with a button on the sticks is creative as well as the ballcap. Hopefully a positive compromise can be made soon.

[HiroXHakuske]

I mean, if you have disabilities in your hands you can't play guitar. There is no auto-orange for people without pinky fingers.

I understand what you're getting at... but people don't need pinky fingers to play orange notes! For my first year of GH I've gotten used to playing with Three fingers (index, middle, and ring) and 5-starring many songs.

[Bakkster]

I understand what you're getting at... but people don't need pinky fingers to play orange notes! For my first year of GH I've gotten used to playing with Three fingers (index, middle, and ring) and 5-starring many songs.

Ditto.

I still think the mouth-activated switch is the coolest idea so far. Unlike the switch on the drumstick I think you will be less likely to hit it, it will be easier to hit intentionally while still moving your arms, and it maintains the 3-limb independence (just with your moth instead of your legs).

Like someone said: this is as simple as a momentary switch, "mouth adapter" (aka, thing you bite to press the switch), wire, and plug. If nobody else does this by next year, I can build up a prototype around January or February (when I have time). Honestly, it should take someone who knows how to solder just a few minutes to do this.

[Dino Ridiculous]

Hey all. After reading this long list of opinions on this subject. I have to agree that modifying this game to address the issues of the handicapped is not a feasible idea. My daughter was born with amniotic band syndrome which happens when the baby is developing, amniotic strands in the womb, wrap themselves around appendages. This left my daughter with only 4 fingers on her right hand and 3 on her left. Needless to say, this would make it impossible for her to 100% anything in either guitar hero or Rock Band. She absolutely loves the games and she doesn't let this deminish her fun in anyway but she knows what her limitations are. Not saying that anything is impossible for her but she needs to adjust to get things to work for her. Did we write Harmonix and ask that a 3 button guitar be made for her? Absolutely not. My daughter has just as much fun with these games as anyone else.

I really do feel for the gentleman in the wheelchair but sometimes you have to adjust. Alot of people in here put in alot of great suggestions and I hope that he can try some of them out to see if they work for him, but as for altering the game, it just doesn't seem like a good idea since then Harmonix would have to alter the game in alot of other ways just to help out other people with handicaps.....

[SSPWOLF]

Here's what I don't understand....

A) Where did Harmonix say they didn't want to address this issue?

B) We already KNOW there's a version of the game with "auto-kick"

C) We alread KNOW that they can push patches via online to the console


My issue with people's moral compass comes in when.. you take into account B and C anyone in thier right mind would have a problem with a net push that allowed users to play the game with an auto-kick in a "unable to communicate with rock central when using this mode" mode.

I don't understand why everyone seems to have a "that's like.... " comparison.

It's not LIKE anything it IS a guy in a wheel chair requesting something that OBVIOUSLY already exists.

If HMX doesn't ever do it, then so be it.. people on this forum have been extremely helpful and provided some amiccable solutions.

If HMX does it.. then they come out looking even better... except to the people who for some odd reason seem to need to appeal that thier enjoyment will be diminished if this person's enjoyment is increased.

-----

Furthermore.. to the allegations that those of us supporting HMX to enable the "cheat" are just being overtly politically correct... that is simply ridiculous.

I'm not asking HMX to provide a handicapped ramp to the display of thier video game in each store they ship it to and to come to the kids house and set up his drums for him.

I'm not asking HMX to reprogram the game or create any NEW content.

I'm not asking them to CHANGE anything.

I recognize that it's already been done, is already in place somehwere, and would require minimal work for them to enable.


This isn't a matter of complaining about the "difficulty" of the game. It's a matter of complaining about the accessibility of the game.

I'm not asking Microsoft to make a Halo version for people with one arm. There was never a demo of halo that was meant to be played at best buy with a one handed controller.

THERE WAS A DEMO OF ROCK BAND MEANT TO BE PLAYED WITHOUT A FOOT PEDAL.


The solution exists, the means to implement it exists....

So, the real question is.. who in thier right mind would have a problem with it?

[CENACHAINGANG54]

The song 29 fingers has no bass pedal at all it is all pads.

[CowboyGP]

Like, I've said, I'm not fighting against it. I'm also not fighting for it. If Harmonix feels they want to do this, then good for them. I just don't think they have an OBLIGATION to do so which many have implied.

Agreed. They're certainly not obligated.

[CowboyGP]

Hey all. After reading this long list of opinions on this subject. I have to agree that modifying this game to address the issues of the handicapped is not a feasible idea. My daughter was born with amniotic band syndrome which happens when the baby is developing, amniotic strands in the womb, wrap themselves around appendages. This left my daughter with only 4 fingers on her right hand and 3 on her left. Needless to say, this would make it impossible for her to 100% anything in either guitar hero or Rock Band. She absolutely loves the games and she doesn't let this deminish her fun in anyway but she knows what her limitations are. Not saying that anything is impossible for her but she needs to adjust to get things to work for her. Did we write Harmonix and ask that a 3 button guitar be made for her? Absolutely not. My daughter has just as much fun with these games as anyone else.

I really do feel for the gentleman in the wheelchair but sometimes you have to adjust. Alot of people in here put in alot of great suggestions and I hope that he can try some of them out to see if they work for him, but as for altering the game, it just doesn't seem like a good idea since then Harmonix would have to alter the game in alot of other ways just to help out other people with handicaps.....

Your opinion is valid, save for one thing (IMO): There currently doesn't exist a version of the game that supports 3 button guitar. There IS a version of the game that supports no kick pedal. No wholesale changes need to be made, they merely need to make an existing feature available. Subtle, but important difference. And the existing feature wasn't developed as an option for the handicapped. It was simply so store demos didn't have to deal with the pedal. The fact that it could help this guy play the game from his wheelchair is a bonus. Thus, no one would have a case to suggest HMX need reprogram the entire game to be "ADA Compliant".

[Harsher]

If you had no fingers would you expect them to create a guitar that plays all the notes for you while you just hold it? Come on, get real.

[Teh_Nfsjunkie91]

If you had no fingers would you expect them to create a guitar that plays all the notes for you while you just hold it? Come on, get real.

You probably wouldn't be playing any video games in that case. Fact of the matter is, there's plenty of people who cannot move their legs.

[SoulScreme]

You probably wouldn't be playing any video games in that case. Fact of the matter is, there's plenty of people who cannot move their legs.

That's hypocritical. Why shouldn't all game makers make their games playable by other means?

One big misunderstand I see is this concept that there is a full version of the game floating around that doesn't require the kick pedal. The demo version in stores is just that, a demo. It is likely not the final build and only include 10-15 tracks. They can't just do this on a whim, it would take time and money. Probably more money than they would make by doing it.

[Harsher]

That's hypocritical. Why shouldn't all game makers make their games playable by other means?

One big misunderstand I see is this concept that there is a full version of the game floating around that doesn't require the kick pedal. The demo version in stores is just that, a demo. It is likely not the final build and only include 10-15 tracks. They can't just do this on a whim, it would take time and money. Probably more money than they would make by doing it.

Correct and I hate the fact that people think a simple PATCH will solve everything, it clearly isn't that simple guys! And I'm sure they already thought about this long and hard before even adding the bass pedal and this is what they chose to do.

I mean you can't always have it the way you want it.

[BRLxHOMICIDEx]

Id have to say MOFO is right they cant just make it so handicapped people cant play but then like the guy above me said a patch doesn't work for everything its way harder than it seems. And if they made a pole i would say yea but just this one thing you want may lag the whole entire game or delete something it needs so you see its not very simple to make a patch they may do it but it might take them months that is if they even do it.

[ThinkSoJoE]

I'm just going to say that I truely hope this issue gets resolved. I know somebody in a wheelchair who may not be able to play the drums on this game, and as much as a hard rocking chick she is, that would just suck for her. I agree with the folks who say that HMX is not obligated to do something about it, but it would be nice if they did. And in all honesty, MOFO, if I had the technical know-how like some of the guys on the boards, I'd make you a set of sticks with the pushbutton like somebody earlier in the thread described how to make and send them to you.

[AgainstOne]

THERE'S A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO THIS!!!

MOFO, acquire yourself a copy of the Best Buy demo! check eBay. problem solved.

if Harmonix really wanted to be nice guys, they could even send him one themselves.

[PHiNiX]

THERE'S A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO THIS!!!

MOFO, acquire yourself a copy of the Best Buy demo! check eBay. problem solved.

if Harmonix really wanted to be nice guys, they could even send him one themselves.

yes because you know how those demos worked out (months of use by people who dont care
=not working)

oh and lets not take in to acount the amount of songs your idea=bad idea

[ibender]

check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHOFbAljGS0&feature=related

maybe a similar thing could be done to trigger the RB kick drum

[stickshady2007]

Well unfortunately, I've never seen a drummer that was handicapped. Sorry, I doubt it will happen. I feel for ya but the drummer from Def lepard had one arm. Shows what you know about rock. But Ya it should nt be changed for one person. I mean I cant play on hard either should we just get rid of expert or hard? I think not

[PHiNiX]

buts its not for one person, alot of people dont have the cordination to use the basspedal (i do) but still i think that everyone should have the right to enjoy it

[crisp30]

I have two daughters, 6 and 8 years old, who love this game (because of the drums) but always make me play the kick pedal for them cause the just can't do it. The coordination and leg strength is just not there. Having the option to turn it off so they can play on their own would be great

Why can't they just change the "Easy" mode to just that, EASY and eliminate the kick pedal (similar to the Guitar, only 3 buttons). If you want the Kick Pedal, jump to Medium.

I'm sure most of you "Experts" don't play in Easy mode anyway. Seems logical to me.

[AdamWill2]

crisp30: wouldn't really work, because easy is...well...really easy. you'd get pretty bored of 100%ing every song forever with no effort.

plus, I doubt they can change the note charts with a patch anyway.

[goldenegg]

I feel for ya but the drummer from Def lepard had one arm. Shows what you know about rock. But Ya it should nt be changed for one person. I mean I cant play on hard either should we just get rid of expert or hard? I think not

First ... it's not just one person. There are many people in the same situation who'd greatly benefit from some sort of solution.

Second, there's a HUGE difference between not having the skills to play at a higher difficulty and not being able to play at all due to a handicap.

I don't understand why some people seem so insulted by the possible addition of a way to disable the kick pedal. Using the excuse that the HMX team at one point said they disabling the pedal would ruin the experience they provided is meaningless. I'm willing to bet they never considered this issue when that comment was made.

I'm certain that whatever 'fix' is implemented will be done in a way that will not affect those of us who play with the pedal (i.e. leaderboards may be disabled of handled differently). In the end, it's only a game. If it's possible to make the game more accessible, that's a terrific thing.

[CowboyGP]

If you had no fingers would you expect them to create a guitar that plays all the notes for you while you just hold it? Come on, get real.

You're an ass.

In a later post you actually made a valid point. Too late, in my opinion. The post I quoted shows your assinine view of this topic.

It might not be as simple of a patch as many of us think, but it's surely do-able. And the applications for it go well beyond helping wheelchair-bound gamers.

There are plenty of young kids who would love to play the drums on RB who are intimidated by the pedal. As has been noted already, making EASY the "no-kick" level wouldn't hamper anyone's enjoyment of the game.

And if disengaging the pedal also disengaged leaderboards, how could it effect anyone else?

[docnasty77]

Excuse me, I think you're the one who is out of line here. How dare you question my morality based on one instance where I think a product should not be modified. I am not going to be upset if it is, I am simply saying I think it's a tricky situation for Harmonix. I also think there are a number of other game related issues that need to be addressed first. I am not being inconsiderate nor am I being naive. I am being realistic. The reality of the situation is that he is a customer just like any other and his complaint/request should be looked at no differently. I have many disabled friends and a few disabled family members. I think that if you treat his request any differently from a request for the same thing from an able bodied person, you are doing him a severe injustice. It's patronizing in my opinion. His request is not entirely invalid, but I don't think it's a priority. As I've said, he can enjoy the game in 3 ways other than playing the drums. I'm sorry if my opinion isn't politically correct enough for you, however, I am not politically correct. As I said in my original statement, I feel for him. I am not some heartless child sitting here finding this amusing. I simply believe that modifying the entire game for one person is an unfeasible request. I may be wrong, and if they can do it easily and quickly without compromising the experience for the rest of us, I'm all for it. But, if you want to talk about morals, remember this phrase from the bible, "Judge let lest ye be judged."

Shouldn't really be that hard. As has already been stated, they removed the kick pedal for the Best Buy demos. Maybe Harmonix can just send him a Best Buy demo? I mean, where's the harm in that?

[GreyFoxx]

I think its not completely out of the question to ask for a cheat that dissables the bass pedal and the leaderboards. I have also seen a thread where a guy came up with a mod where a small buttom attached to his drumsticks simulated the kick pedal. I'm sure if you do a search you should be able to find it.