HARMONIX: How about telling us what you're working on?

[Maggot_Brain]

It's been two weeks now and I think it's pretty clear what kind of improvements/changes/additions your paying customers want to see.

- Remove fan cap/ improve BWT
- Hyperspeed option
- change instruments
- change band leader
- allow us to pick band mates that appear on stage in Solo and BWT.
- Bass Solo tour

- more I forget right now

Assuming you're working on that, how about letting us know what your plans are so we don't feel like mushrooms?

Did I mention I love the game and would like to see it improved?

(So I posted the original in Tech Support. Duh!)

[luigeirk]

I think we might get one of those updates. Maybe two, but not likely.

[Nate Finch]

I'm really hoping that before they start doing enhancements for the game in general, that they'll get the PS3 version up to par with the 360 version, and give us *at least* voice chat while online. If they also give us the ability to use GH3 Les Pauls as well, then that would be fantastic.

After those two very basic things, I'd love to see some of the things you suggest.

-Nate

[Sonci]

People want a bass-solo tour? How bored ARE you people?

[Rook_x51]

I'm all for 1,3,4 and 5.

[Amish Robot]

Those would all be nice improvements. My main hope, though, is that all future updates are handled via DLC. I DO NOT WANT A RETAIL SEQUEL TO THIS GAME! If I buy 50 DLC tracks over the course of the next year, I will be pissed if come next November I suddenly have to load up two different games that split up the songs and features.

I can understand that the time & money investment in building or expanding some features might make free patches to the existing game unattractive to HMX, as well as the appeal of occasionally rotating a new product into the retail chain to keep it fresh. But if they feel they have to do this, they should at least make RB2 available as a DLC expansion to the existing game, so existing users can keep everything available in one place. Swapping discs out because you want to play a certain song would be an utter killjoy.

[Nate Finch]

My main hope, though, is that all future updates are handled via DLC. I DO NOT WANT A RETAIL SEQUEL TO THIS GAME! If I buy 50 DLC tracks over the course of the next year, I will be pissed if come next November I suddenly have to load up two different games that split up the songs and features.

But if they feel they have to do this, they should at least make RB2 available as a DLC expansion to the existing game, so existing users can keep everything available in one place. Swapping discs out because you want to play a certain song would be an utter killjoy.

I agree 100%. They have stated that the plan is to stick with RB and do all new content as downloadable and not make a bunch of new versions. Hopefully that'll include new features etc, and they won't have to do a whole new version of the game for a long long time. Ideally, never. I mean, look at WoW, it's been around for years with tons of additions and it's all still the same game (more or less).

That's one of the things i never understood about GH 2 and 80's... why didn't those just add on to the previous games? (especially 80's)

[davidshek]

That's one of the things i never understood about GH 2 and 80's... why didn't those just add on to the previous games? (especially 80's)

The way I understood it, 80's was released only for PS2 kinda as a consolation prize for PS2 owners not having the ability to get DLC.

360 was able to get GH1 songs as DLC. But why they didn't release 80's as DLC for the 360 still eludes me...

[tbradshaw]

I don't think that it's reasonable to expect any of these changes.

- The fan cap is an intentional game play mechanic for BWT. Not an accident or bug. As such, it's been heavily discussed within HMX and that's exactly how they want their BWT to be.

- We've already had quotes from HMX about Hyperspeed (and how they don't feel that it is necessary). While this is a little shortsighted in comparison to the rest of the successful rhythm games in the world, I think they are probably distancing themselves from the hardcore rhythm game player crowd on purpose (for better or worse).

- Characters are tied to specific instruments because there are clothing and accessories that are specific to each instrument. Besides, musicians may often play multiple instruments, but when it comes to Hall of Fame Induction level bands, rarely do musicians really play every instrument at the caliber necessary for that level of play. This is definitely a gamer vs. musician argument. Where we gamers just want to have their personal persona do everything, but Harmonix is full of musicians that just know better.

- The band leader is the unique identifier for the Band, changing the leader makes it a new band... you can already create a new band. Your characters can also be part of multiple bands (and tracked on the leader boards thusly).

- While I think picking the place-holder band mates would be fantastic, it would require a lot of interface work and configuration (parallel to the normal character creation, but separate) for a pretty small benefit. That's the main reason I don't see it happening. I would be satisfied if maybe we could just pick the genre for the band mates.

- HMX tried to make a bass solo tour, but in the end the solo tour wasn't compelling enough to include in the game. It's not really a mistake or casual omission. They tried it and it sucked, and they didn't want to include something that sucked in the final game.

So... I'm being a bit of a negative nancy, but I don't think that it's realistic to expect a statement of any kind on these issues. None of them are actually bugs, all of them are just personal preferences. And while I may even agree with some of them, I don't expect the personal preferences of amateur game designers to realistically influence the game designers significantly.

However, we have made these positions known. HMXJohnlok and HMXSean go through these forums very regularly and take these positions to the designers. The best we can hope for is that next time the designers are discussing one of these issues, they will go "Well, Sean and Johnlok did say that there was a strong sentiment on the forums for this," and it'll be a touch of influence towards this opinions. Maybe some of these are right on the border of "yes or no" and these forum expressions will push it over to one of the sides.

But, there's just no way that trolling for a "statement of intent" from the designers on how they are going to conform to the personal preferences of the forums is going to work.

[Rook_x51]

I don't think that it's reasonable to expect any of these changes.

- The fan cap is an intentional game play mechanic for BWT. Not an accident or bug. As such, it's been heavily discussed within HMX and that's exactly how they want their BWT to be.



Instead of a fan cap though, couldn't we just gain fans slower? That way if I am playing a band of all experters we'll gain fans like mad whereas my daughter's band (playing on easy and medium) can still eventually get everything, but they'll have to play way more.




- We've already had quotes from HMX about Hyperspeed (and how they don't feel that it is necessary). While this is a little shortsighted in comparison to the rest of the successful rhythm games in the world, I think they are probably distancing themselves from the hardcore rhythm game player crowd on purpose (for better or worse).




I don't understand why hyperspeed is important either.




- Characters are tied to specific instruments because there are clothing and accessories that are specific to each instrument. Besides, musicians may often play multiple instruments, but when it comes to Hall of Fame Induction level bands, rarely do musicians really play every instrument at the caliber necessary for that level of play. This is definitely a gamer vs. musician argument. Where we gamers just want to have their personal persona do everything, but Harmonix is full of musicians that just know better.



As both a gamer and musician, I would love the ability to switch instruments. If I could make the ultimate musician and get him into the hall of fame, that would be awesome. I think in this case, being realistic takes away from the fun.




- The band leader is the unique identifier for the Band, changing the leader makes it a new band... you can already create a new band. Your characters can also be part of multiple bands (and tracked on the leader boards thusly).



No arguments here.




- While I think picking the place-holder band mates would be fantastic, it would require a lot of interface work and configuration (parallel to the normal character creation, but separate) for a pretty small benefit. That's the main reason I don't see it happening. I would be satisfied if maybe we could just pick the genre for the band mates.


Pretty lame excuse. It was poor design to not allow this in the first place. Picking a genre would be better than nothing, but still not a good solution.




- HMX tried to make a bass solo tour, but in the end the solo tour wasn't compelling enough to include in the game. It's not really a mistake or casual omission. They tried it and it sucked, and they didn't want to include something that sucked in the final game.



Besides maybe Sabotage, I don't see any songs that would interest me on bass. Definitely not enough to warrant a career mode.




So... I'm being a bit of a negative nancy, but I don't think that it's realistic to expect a statement of any kind on these issues. None of them are actually bugs, all of them are just personal preferences. And while I may even agree with some of them, I don't expect the personal preferences of amateur game designers to realistically influence the game designers significantly.


We're not talking about personal preferences of amateur game designers, we're talking about personal preferences of consumers discussing a product they purchased.

[HeXcoda]

While I disagree with a lot of the reasoning Bradshaw put forward, I have to agree, HMX isn't going to change any of that. They've already made it clear that each of those decisions was made and locked down, and in their opinion, none of the features cited are a good idea / possible / worth doing.

I do think there's a pretty big disconnect between what Harmonix thinks the game should be and what the fans want it to be, though. That's frustrating for us (and likely for them!). I'm hoping they go back and re-evaluate some of these when the inevitable sequel hits. (Or the inevitable patch, I suppose, but personally I doubt they'd pass up another shot at retail. The point is, some re-evaluation would be nice.)

For instance...

Fancaps: There could be an alternative game mechanic than the fan cap that doesn't force you to kick your friends out of the band because they aren't "good enough". Yes, it's realistic, but it's not FUN, you know? Some other method, such as picking an overall difficulty for BWT and finishing it at that level for reduced achievements / leaderboard status, would be plausible. GH3 lets you unlock everything and enjoy the whole game on Easy, you know...

Hyperspeed: I have to agree with HMX here, if they design the songs well, you won't need this. Now, if specific songs are barely playable without acceleration, that's something that can be addressed in a patch.

Instrument Binding: I have yet to see any major clothing or accessory that cries out to me "Vocalist Only" or "Drummer Only". The decisions on what class has what gear seems arbitrary. Unless someone can put forward some highly compelling reason beyond "You can't wear these pants as a drummer" I see no reason why this shouldn't be implemented. Again, "realism" is not justification... "fun" should always be the justification. It's not fun to paw through the clumsy interface and be unable to easily shuffle up who plays what instrument in a band.

Band Leader: I have no suggestions for this one, but like the fan cap, all it'd take is a few afternoons dreaming up a new gameplay mechanic to take the place of a locked down band leader. Find some other way of uniquely identifying the band.

Solo Bandmates: This stems from an overall lack of compelling solo content in general. The solo experience is clearly not as customizable, not as interactive, and not as in-depth as BWT. Being able to design an NPC band is part of the cry for SOMETHING more for soloists to do other than grind tiers. This is a fairly large hole in RB's armor and something that needs to be addressed in a future patch/sequel; whether that's solo BWT, some new hybrid game mode, NPC bands, or whatever. Yes, it's "just as fun as guitar hero" but isn't the goal to be MORE FUN than Guitar Hero..?

Bass Solo Tour: There are a LOT of ways this could have been done. It'd need a unique approach, yes -- you can't just shuffle the 45 songs into new tiers. Make a shorter setlist comprised of the best bass songs, teaching you how to be a better bass player (which is what HMX says solo should be all about.. I disagree, I want more than a glorified practice mode, but). It doesn't have to have the same achievement points as a guitar tour, but it'd be better than nothing.

Basically, each of the things above is doable, and has a purpose. But HMX disagrees and since they hold the keys to the kingdom, the best we can do is try to explain why we think they're wrong and hope that we change their minds. It's worth the effort, even if I kind of doubt it'll happen.

[Grey_Street]

- The fan cap is an intentional game play mechanic for BWT. Not an accident or bug. As such, it's been heavily discussed within HMX and that's exactly how they want their BWT to be.

I realize you are mod, but the majority of your post make it sound like you aren't directly involved w/ HMX, so how do you know this was heavily discussed?


- I think they are probably distancing themselves from the hardcore rhythm game player crowd on purpose (for better or worse).

This contradicts the fan cap decision.


- Characters are tied to specific instruments because there are clothing and accessories that are specific to each instrument. Besides, musicians may often play multiple instruments, but when it comes to Hall of Fame Induction level bands, rarely do musicians really play every instrument at the caliber necessary for that level of play. This is definitely a gamer vs. musician argument. Where we gamers just want to have their personal persona do everything, but Harmonix is full of musicians that just know better.

- The band leader is the unique identifier for the Band, changing the leader makes it a new band... you can already create a new band. Your characters can also be part of multiple bands (and tracked on the leader boards thusly).

Definately agree w/ you on both of these and I can see why the game is like this. Would it be nice to change? Sure, but not a huge deal.


- While I think picking the place-holder band mates would be fantastic, it would require a lot of interface work and configuration (parallel to the normal character creation, but separate) for a pretty small benefit. That's the main reason I don't see it happening. I would be satisfied if maybe we could just pick the genre for the band mates.

I guess I don't see this as being as difficult as you say. There are allready set band mates that are used randomly so all they would need to do is put the user created band mates in that mix and give them preference. Giving an option to specifically create band mates just for the mode might be more difficult, but it'd be nice to have it just choose one of your created characters.



- HMX tried to make a bass solo tour, but in the end the solo tour wasn't compelling enough to include in the game. It's not really a mistake or casual omission. They tried it and it sucked, and they didn't want to include something that sucked in the final game.

Totally agree, it would be monotonous.



So... I'm being a bit of a negative nancy, but I don't think that it's realistic to expect a statement of any kind on these issues. None of them are actually bugs, all of them are just personal preferences. And while I may even agree with some of them, I don't expect the personal preferences of amateur game designers to realistically influence the game designers significantly.

However, we have made these positions known. HMXJohnlok and HMXSean go through these forums very regularly and take these positions to the designers. The best we can hope for is that next time the designers are discussing one of these issues, they will go "Well, Sean and Johnlok did say that there was a strong sentiment on the forums for this," and it'll be a touch of influence towards this opinions. Maybe some of these are right on the border of "yes or no" and these forum expressions will push it over to one of the sides.

But, there's just no way that trolling for a "statement of intent" from the designers on how they are going to conform to the personal preferences of the forums is going to work.

It would be nice to at least hear how they make these decisions, and if there is a chance they will be in the game. It'd be alot easier to just link to a developer's post about how they aren't going to remove the fan cap than let a 70 page argument ensue. I don't think it is unreasonable for board members to get a little upset that we haven't heard anything. Especially when you compound it w/ all of the launch issue and the community site still not being up.

[Mushroom]

Little comment on the Bass Solo Tour idea.

A Bass is a type of Guitar. >.<

[Calibos]

Thanks for the heads up tbradshaw!!

Something I would like to ask... Why can't you copy your save file? It is not allowed, at least not on the PS3. The rumor is you also cannot copy it via the backup utility as well, but I personally do not know if that is true.

I have just purchased a much larger HDD for my PS3 (anticipating loads of DLC), and I would hate to have lost all the time I've invested in solo tours and BWT. Starting these modes over again, not to mention recreating all my characters again would be quite a chore.

Can someone please look into this???? Thanks in advance!

[webduelist]

Really that was a pritty lame excuse about the choose leader thing.

It would be nice to swap it out, really it dosnt even have to be a complex interface, you press start or some other key that bring a menu or a direct option to change band leader you move a cusor over and choose the person you want to be leader and then all the options and controlls go over to him. really I thought of that in 5 seconds why didnt they include it in game. sure in BWT you are in a band that is saved on that profile but its just controls not like your switching profiles.

[ShadowOfEden]

Companies never mention patchs they are working on, because fans are faster to kill than praise. All it would create is hundreds of threads about "OMG! You should fix that instead!" "You don't even want to fix that!"

[tbradshaw]

Instead of a fan cap though, couldn't we just gain fans slower? That way if I am playing a band of all experters we'll gain fans like mad whereas my daughter's band (playing on easy and medium) can still eventually get everything, but they'll have to play way more.

This reminds me of the demotivator poster: When you earnestly believe you can compensate for a lack of skill by doubling your efforts, there's no end to what you can't do. (http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/posters/3673/) :) It's not broken. People just get bummed when their progress is stopped and they don't get the instant gratification of increasing numbers. I think this will become less of an issue after a while. (We started declaring intent before every set. We are either playing for stars or for fans. For fans, we gotta do at least Hard on everything. For stars we keep it on Medium for drums/vocals so we can have a good shot at 5 starring things.)


As both a gamer and musician, I would love the ability to switch instruments. If I could make the ultimate musician and get him into the hall of fame, that would be awesome. I think in this case, being realistic takes away from the fun.

I guess that's partially true, that it could take away from the fun. But is it not fun to make additional characters? I really like having three different on stage persona.


Pretty lame excuse. It was poor design to not allow this in the first place. Picking a genre would be better than nothing, but still not a good solution.

Heh. Yeah, it might be a lame reason. But it's a valid, practical reason given the topic at hand. While this wouldn't have been a challenging change during earlier stages of development, I still content that this feature would be a lot of work for a little gain this late in the development cycle. (This portion would be known as "maintenance".)


We're not talking about personal preferences of amateur game designers, we're talking about personal preferences of consumers discussing a product they purchased.

That doesn't make a difference, really. Software engineering is a challenging field, and one of the main things that makes it so challenging is that the classic adage "the customer is always right" is just not true. In the service industry it's just a euphemism that is supposed to describe the "attitude" that service providers take (not even a prescription of truth), but in software design and engineering it doesn't work anymore.

Software design and game design grays the lines between service, art, and engineering. The entertainment aspects of the game are like a service, the vision and cohesiveness of the project is an art, and the framework and underlying infrastructure are an engineering task. Our personal opinions on how the game "should" work are perfectly valid when it comes to the entertainment aspect of the game, but they often come in conflict with the artistic vision and the engineering realities of the game.

Which is why I suggested that as amateur game designers (especially those of us that only care about the entertainment portion of the game and expect the art and engineering to just magically work), we aren't going to have a huge influence towards the game designers that balance all three.

[Rook_x51]

That doesn't make a difference, really. Software engineering is a challenging field, and one of the main things that makes it so challenging is that the classic adage "the customer is always right" is just not true. In the service industry it's just a euphemism that is supposed to describe the "attitude" that service providers take (not even a prescription of truth), but in software design and engineering it doesn't work anymore.

Software design and game design grays the lines between service, art, and engineering. The entertainment aspects of the game are like a service, the vision and cohesiveness of the project is an art, and the framework and underlying infrastructure are an engineering task. Our personal opinions on how the game "should" work are perfectly valid when it comes to the entertainment aspect of the game, but they often come in conflict with the artistic vision and the engineering realities of the game.

Which is why I suggested that as amateur game designers (especially those of us that only care about the entertainment portion of the game and expect the art and engineering to just magically work), we aren't going to have a huge influence towards the game designers that balance all three.

I'd get into how this is the dumbest thing you have ever posted, but I'm sure it would fall on deaf ears.

[guan69]

...

I do think there's a pretty big disconnect between what Harmonix thinks the game should be and what the fans want it to be, though. That's frustrating for us (and likely for them!).

Fancaps: There could be an alternative game mechanic than the fan cap that doesn't force you to kick your friends out of the band because they aren't "good enough". Yes, it's realistic, but it's not FUN, you know? Some other method, such as picking an overall difficulty for BWT and finishing it at that level for reduced achievements / leaderboard status, would be plausible. GH3 lets you unlock everything and enjoy the whole game on Easy, you know...

Instrument Binding: I have yet to see any major clothing or accessory that cries out to me "Vocalist Only" or "Drummer Only". The decisions on what class has what gear seems arbitrary. Unless someone can put forward some highly compelling reason beyond "You can't wear these pants as a drummer" I see no reason why this shouldn't be implemented. Again, "realism" is not justification... "fun" should always be the justification. It's not fun to paw through the clumsy interface and be unable to easily shuffle up who plays what instrument in a band.

...

Basically, each of the things above is doable, and has a purpose. But HMX disagrees and since they hold the keys to the kingdom, the best we can do is try to explain why we think they're wrong and hope that we change their minds. It's worth the effort, even if I kind of doubt it'll happen.
I definitely agree with the bolded statement above. I don't know if thats due to miscommunication or fan expectations but there are obviously a few things about this game that players are unhappy about.

I think your statements on the fancaps and instrument binding are important points. I hate the fact that I have to recreate the same character if I want to have them play more than one instrument. My g/f got very frustrated about this when we were playing over the weekend and I'm sure she's not the only one out there. I really don't see what the big deal is especially when there are musicians out there that can do the same. Also, I agree with you 100% about the fancaps. You can only play about 10-12 songs on Easy before the fan cap kicks in and thats not even half the songs in the game! Personally, I thought that was ridiculous. I really hope there's a patch to tweak those settings so that everyone gets a decent BWT experience.

As for other things I'd like to see patched, I'd like to see more options in the character designer. The current options make it hard to create ethnic characters. I would also like to create fat and skinny people because thats more realistic than having all fit & diesel characters. I'd also like the ability to create normal hairstyles.

[Maggot_Brain]

Ok then. If they won't listen to their customers, I know just what I'll do. I won't buy any more DLC and certainly not RB2. Simple. (I'll also keep returning my broken guitar and drums until I get a working set. But that's another whole issue.)

But I still would like Alex R. to come here himself and tell us one way or the other.

[tbradshaw]

I realize you are mod, but the majority of your post make it sound like you aren't directly involved w/ HMX, so how do you know this was heavily discussed?

Yeah, I can definitely be more clear here. I am a moderator, but I do not work for nor interact daily with Harmonix staff. I'm just a fan that was useful on the forums and when I offered to assist, I was given elevated rights to the forums to help keep things on track. Anything I say is my opinions alone, not that of Harmonix. Furthermore, the only guidance that I was given to govern my actions on the boards were to "avoid flamewars". Which, pretty much, means "you're a moderator, don't be an *******."

However, the internal processes of Harmonix have been documented in a number of sources. Of particular note, the Score Hero guys made a wonderful forum thread on their forums with diaries of the visits six (or so?) guys made to Harmonix. They detailed their daily activities, including a large company wide employee meeting over the lunch hour that covered various topics. They also interviewed individual members of the Harmonix staff, coders, etc, and offered commentary on their discussions.

Regarding specific design decisions, a number of times those outwards facing members of Harmonix that have been caught on camera on YouTube, GameTrailers, and other locations discussed the collaborative method that Harmonix uses for game design. This is especially true with the QA members, whom have had the opportunity to express opinions on interface and game design that directly changed development after discussion with the designers.

On a general game development company front, I do an internship with id Software each summer. And while it is related to QuakeCon, and not game development specifically, I've made some great friends at id and I've had a chance to talk about a lot of game development things with them. Of course, it's a different shop and corporate culture is always a funny thing, but it helps shape my opinions on how things work at a game development company.

So, in closing, the vast majority of my understanding of Harmonix and their game design process has been from reading a ton of things online (pretty much anything posted anywhere, heh). I shape that through my experience with friends at id and my Computer Science education.

My relationship with Harmonix starts and stops with the "Moderator" title under my name. I guess HMXSean responds to me pretty quickly if I bother him... but I rarely do. (I figure he's busy enough. :)


This contradicts the fan cap decision.

I don't think that it does. The fan cap is a normalized score for cross-difficulty comparison. It doesn't imply anything "hardcore".


It would be nice to at least hear how they make these decisions, and if there is a chance they will be in the game. It'd be alot easier to just link to a developer's post about how they aren't going to remove the fan cap than let a 70 page argument ensue. I don't think it is unreasonable for board members to get a little upset that we haven't heard anything. Especially when you compound it w/ all of the launch issue and the community site still not being up.

I'm totally with you. I don't mind the 70 page threads, but yes. I think this would really be best served by a Harmonix pod cast. However, I fear that it doesn't work for business reasons more than anything else. Game developers are practically gag-ordered these days, and it might be that there's just nothing they are allowed to say. :(

[tbradshaw]

Companies never mention patchs they are working on, because fans are faster to kill than praise. All it would create is hundreds of threads about "OMG! You should fix that instead!" "You don't even want to fix that!"

Man! Ain't that the truth. I never realized how bad things could be until I spent some time on the WoW forums. Holy crap. In comparison to the vicious developer-hating trolls on the WoW forums, I think that even the worst guys on our forums are some pretty stand-up ladies and gentlemen.

[tbradshaw]

I'd get into how this is the dumbest thing you have ever posted, but I'm sure it would fall on deaf ears.

Well, if that's the case: Next time instead of insulting, just keep it to yourself.

[Kingfish]

Little comment on the Bass Solo Tour idea.

A Bass is a type of Guitar. >.<

So someone that only plays bass for a band...who has no interest in playing lead guitar...should just play guitar solo tour? Is that what I am understanding?

[DesiredFX]

Instead of a fan cap though, couldn't we just gain fans slower? That way if I am playing a band of all experters we'll gain fans like mad whereas my daughter's band (playing on easy and medium) can still eventually get everything, but they'll have to play way more.

I don't believe a difficulty based "fan taper" or "fan governor" would help things at all.

You're talking about a difference of hundreds of thousands of fans. Say you implement a "fan governor" that only allows you to get a percentage of the fans you can get at higher levels, but is also governed by the existing game mechanics, which limit the number of fans you can earn for an Easy gig or a Medium gig.

Further, you face reductions in the number of fans you can earn for subsequent plays at the same difficulty level that don't earn you more stars.

What's going to happen is that you'll very quickly reach a state of diminishing returns, where you have to play dozens more gigs to get the same number of fans that someone playing on Hard can get in a single gig.

When you say "eventually get everything," you're talking, most likely, about having to play every song in the game 20 to 30 times. It would become a massive exercise in frustration for people--especially kids, and in the long run, there would be more fun for them in attempting and failing a hard song a few times while they get the hang of playing on the higher difficulty level.

You really can step back to a song like Say It Ain't So or Mississippi Queen and get everyone in the game through it on Hard. Maybe only at three stars, but it's a start.

On another note, as for Bass Solo Tour, I don't see where it would suck. Yes, it might be a bit dry, but I would much prefer to go down a list in Bass Solo Tour than have to unlock things by playing them on Guitar first and then Quickplaying them on Bass.

[Hanover]

A product you purchased knowing what was or wasn't possible...if you did your homework prior to purchasing the software.

See, when I buy forks at the store, I don't demand that someone turn them into spoons because I decided that I needed to eat my soup with them. I knew what I was buying on the outset.

You bought the software, gave Harmonix the money for what that software was. There is no way that they owe you any more than what they put on that disc you bought. It's simple as that.

Luckily there are software manufacturers that like to keep their games fresh by offering us purchaseable expansions or free patches....but this is a nice perk, not something that they HAVE to do.

So if you don't like what they gave you, I suggest not buying another Harmonix product in the future.



We're not talking about personal preferences of amateur game designers, we're talking about personal preferences of consumers discussing a product they purchased.

[Maggot_Brain]

A product you purchased knowing what was or wasn't possible...if you did your homework prior to purchasing the software.

See, when I buy forks at the store, I don't demand that someone turn them into spoons because I decided that I needed to eat my soup with them. I knew what I was buying on the outset.

You bought the software, gave Harmonix the money for what that software was. There is no way that they owe you any more than what they put on that disc you bought. It's simple as that.

Luckily there are software manufacturers that like to keep their games fresh by offering us purchaseable expansions or free patches....but this is a nice perk, not something that they HAVE to do.

So if you don't like what they gave you, I suggest not buying another Harmonix product in the future.

Yeah, we should all shut up about an expensive product we purchased!!

[Rook_x51]

Well, if that's the case: Next time instead of insulting, just keep it to yourself.

Ok fair enough, I'll justify why I thought your post was dumb.

Collectively we are not complaining as amateur game designers. We are complaining about design decisions that we (as consumers) are forced to live with. Most (if not all) of the issues we are trying to bring up with Harmonix all involve core code design decisions.

i.e: There was a choice to have random characters fill out your band. Was this choice because it makes the game more fun? Nope. Was this choice made because it makes the game more "realistic"? Nope. This decision was made to get the game out faster. And that my friend, is a horrible code design choice for the customer.

Saying that "the customer is always right" isn't a true adage is complete bull crap. We are right, and if Harmonix chooses to ignore us there will be consequences. This may be as small as a couple of people selling Rock Band early, it may be simply that Harmonix loses a couple of hardcore fans, it could be that half the people refuse to continue on the Rock Band path. who knows. But simply ignoring your fan base gets you nowhere fast. We're all expressing our opinions on the game and what could be done to improve. If Harmonix was to ignore us because their philosophy is "Screw them, we know what we're doing", that would be seriously bad for business... don't you think?

[Maggot_Brain]

Besides, Harmonix might want to get these improvements done before some other company (Guess who!) comes out with

Guitar Band Hero

which will include practically ALL the improvements we are agitating about. (Including wireless reliable guitars, reliable drums, reliable..... well, you get the idea.)

Pass that on to HXM/EA/MTV.

[Rook_x51]

Besides, Harmonix might want to get these improvements done before some other company (Guess who!) comes out with

Guitar Band Hero

which will include practically ALL the improvements we are agitating about. (Including wireless reliable guitars, reliable drums, reliable..... well, you get the idea.)

Pass that on to HXM/EA/MTV.

That won't happen. I don't think Neversoft has what it takes to do that.

[Maggot_Brain]

That won't happen. I don't think Neversoft has what it takes to do that.

You don't think Activision will throw $$$ and devs at it?

[defmonkey]

Those would all be nice improvements. My main hope, though, is that all future updates are handled via DLC. I DO NOT WANT A RETAIL SEQUEL TO THIS GAME! If I buy 50 DLC tracks over the course of the next year, I will be pissed if come next November I suddenly have to load up two different games that split up the songs and features.

I can understand that the time & money investment in building or expanding some features might make free patches to the existing game unattractive to HMX, as well as the appeal of occasionally rotating a new product into the retail chain to keep it fresh. But if they feel they have to do this, they should at least make RB2 available as a DLC expansion to the existing game, so existing users can keep everything available in one place. Swapping discs out because you want to play a certain song would be an utter killjoy.

I agree as well a full 100% on this. I would be pissed as well for a sequel for retail only.

I hope it will be DLC as well, since Warhawk showed the future for video games getting it for a cheaper price and cutting out the middle man.

[Feigned]

While I too would like to know exactly what Harmonix is up to (much like tbradshaw, I'm also not directly involved with Harmonix on a daily basis), I believe that they are somewhat justified in their silence. They have given us the answers to some of their decisions (ie. lack of Hyperspeed and online BWT) but to expect them to justify every decision that was made during the developmental process is a bit unrealistic.

Game design is just as much a work of art as it is a technical accomplishment, and should be appreciated thusly. Each decision they made was discussed internally by the staff, and all pros and cons were weighed. The lack of a bass career, or the inclusion of a fan cap in BWT were not simply done on a whim by some programmer on a deadline. Those working on this project labored for many months creating what they thought would be an awesome game. There's no way that it could make everyone happy (there are a few things I wouldn't mind changing myself), but in the end they wanted to make this game fun. I have yet to see any fatal flaws with this game (aside from broken peripherals) that would prevent someone from having a good time.

I know that I don't mind seeing threads with suggestions about changing this or that. I also know that Harmonix looks through these threads and takes them into consideration, as they value feedback from their customers and fellow rockers. However, to expect them to reply quickly to the demands of people claiming that they made the game wrong (by the inclusion/exclusion of certain features) would be a bit unjustified. To think that they would read over the threads and immediately make a decision to change something in the game is unrealistic. Just as they pondered and discussed the features that went into the game before launch, I suspect they would give the same amount of thought to any possible changes they may implement in the future. There's also the heavy consideration of the players who love the game just as it it.

This isn't a rant on the OP, or any of the other posters, but simply my thoughts on what HMX may be thinking and doing. There's no reason to stop voicing your opinions on features that should/shouldn't be in the game. However, have a little patience, and faith that Harmonix is listening. They will let us know what their future plans are in due time. Until then, enjoy the game, and rock on! :cool:

[ShadowOfEden]

I guess that's partially true, that it could take away from the fun. But is it not fun to make additional characters? I really like having three different on stage persona.



The problem with that is not when you play solo, where you create all the characters to your tastes, but when you play in a group, where each player wants to use his character. We like to switch to vary the gameplay, so the drummer goes to bass, the bass goes to singer, the singer goes to guitar and the guitarist goes to drums. What do you do then? You take the time to redo your character for your new instrument after every songs? You shouldn't spend more time on making your characters than playing music... If I can switch from guitar to drums, my character should be able to do the same.

[dfjdejulio]

Those would all be nice improvements. My main hope, though, is that all future updates are handled via DLC. I DO NOT WANT A RETAIL SEQUEL TO THIS GAME! If I buy 50 DLC tracks over the course of the next year, I will be pissed if come next November I suddenly have to load up two different games that split up the songs and features.

I mostly agree, but if a new retail game could use all the previous DLC, and all the on-disc content for the older game could also be loaded into the newer game, then it wouldn't be so bad. The first DLC I got for GH2 was the GH1 stuff. I was annoyed that GH3 couldn't load it.

[Captiosus77]

Honestly, the only thing I want to know is the possibility of an online BWT patch. In the IGN review, they state: "Though currently only available locally, BWT will get a patch to allow for an online career mode at some point in the near future."

Assuming they got this information from Harmonix and didn't just pull it out of their collective arse, I'd like to know how the progress is coming along on this patch. As an older gamer, this game makes me both happy and sad: Happy because it kicks so much ass and sad because the lack of online BWT means the arduous task of trying to coordinate with friends to squeeze some "band time" in our busy schedules of work, home, kids, et cetera.

I'm sure I'll be flamed for what I just said, but it's the honest truth. Some days I spend more time trying to organize the ability for my friends to hang out and play than I do actually playing the game ("got a couple spare hours this saturday?"/"should we jam at your place? Friend X can't come to your place with his kid? Ok, how about we jam at my place?"). If online BWT is implemented, the organization time could be cut in half or more and make the game much more open to us working stiffs with kids.

Note that I'm not ragging on the fact that it didn't have online BWT out of the box. I knew that willingly and purchased it regardless, but the IGN review gave a glimmer of hope that it will be available sometime in the not too distant future.

[tbradshaw]

Saying that "the customer is always right" isn't a true adage is complete bull crap. We are right, and if Harmonix chooses to ignore us there will be consequences. This may be as small as a couple of people selling Rock Band early, it may be simply that Harmonix loses a couple of hardcore fans, it could be that half the people refuse to continue on the Rock Band path. who knows. But simply ignoring your fan base gets you nowhere fast. We're all expressing our opinions on the game and what could be done to improve. If Harmonix was to ignore us because their philosophy is "Screw them, we know what we're doing", that would be seriously bad for business... don't you think?

Fair enough. To be more clear, I'm talking on the specific design elements that were brought up in the list in the OP, and I don't think that customer feedback is useless for other things. But on these items we can just agree to disagree.

I certainly respect your rationale, more so that your original quip. :)

[tbradshaw]

Note that I'm not ragging on the fact that it didn't have BWT out of the box. I knew that willingly and purchased it regardless, but the IGN review gave a glimmer of hope that it will be available sometime in the not too distant future.

Well put. It would be great to know more about this. I would absolutely adore (as would all of us, I'm sure), online BWT.

[Rook_x51]

Fair enough. To be more clear, I'm talking on the specific design elements that were brought up in the list in the OP, and I don't think that customer feedback is useless for other things. But on these items we can just agree to disagree.

I certainly respect your rationale, more so that your original quip. :)

Ya, it was early and I hadn't had my morning coffee. Sorry about that.

[Rook_x51]

Well put. It would be great to know more about this. I would absolutely adore (as would all of us, I'm sure), online BWT.

Am I the only one that has no interest in online BWT? Not hearing the singer kills online for me. The best part about the local multiplayer aspect of this game is... well the local multiplayer aspect.

Nothing quite like hearing someone belt out a great take on Billy Corgan while someone else jumps around like he was on stage and the drummer goes nuts. Good times.

Online seems like it would be so boring.

[Eastwood]

I honestly believe that only the people who followed this site and other game sites knew that BWT wasn't online from the get go. The box even did a good job of alluding to having it right out of the box. It isn't a big deal for me, but I could see how it would be for others.

[Captiosus77]

Am I the only one that has no interest in online BWT? Not hearing the singer kills online for me. The best part about the local multiplayer aspect of this game is... well the local multiplayer aspect.

Nothing quite like hearing someone belt out a great take on Billy Corgan while someone else jumps around like he was on stage and the drummer goes nuts. Good times.

Online seems like it would be so boring.

Don't get me wrong, I love the local aspect of the game, just as I love the local aspect of other multiplayer games (eg. SceneIT, Mario Party, Rayman: Raving Rabbids), but I think there ought to be choices out there.

Sure, local BWT only "requires" two people, but even trying to coordinate between two working, married, adults with kids takes a bit of finesse. Would I prefer to be able to set up a HDTV in my garage and invite all my friends over? Hell yes.. but I'd also love the option of my friends saying "hey man, we can't make it over, but we could spare some time working on our tour online."


I honestly believe that only the people who followed this site and other game sites knew that BWT wasn't online from the get go. The box even did a good job of alluding to having it right out of the box. It isn't a big deal for me, but I could see how it would be for others.

Well, like I said, I knew going into this that there was no online BWT and bought the game regardless - and love it to death. Is it game breaking that it's not there? Not in the slightest. But, if the information from IGN turns out to be accurate, it will be awesome as it would provide other options. And also offer the opportunity to rock out with friends who can't ever be local (eg. one of my old high school friends who now lives in Washington State).

[tbradshaw]

The problem with that is not when you play solo, where you create all the characters to your tastes, but when you play in a group, where each player wants to use his character. We like to switch to vary the gameplay, so the drummer goes to bass, the bass goes to singer, the singer goes to guitar and the guitarist goes to drums. What do you do then? You take the time to redo your character for your new instrument after every songs? You shouldn't spend more time on making your characters than playing music... If I can switch from guitar to drums, my character should be able to do the same.

Good question, and we do this a number of ways in Band World Tour.

Our house band is Little Endian. I'm the band leader on guitar. I like guitar a lot, so I picked the band leader to be on guitar as a "safety", so no matter what I'd never mind playing guitar. If we have our original members for the session, we all log onto our original instruments and if we feel like changing instruments we just change seats but leave the original characters where they are.

If we start playing and someone isn't there, we log onto whatever instruments we feel like playing on at the time. I log into the guitar (clearly, because I'm the band leader and that's the way it's gotta be), but the other band members will log onto whatever instrument sounds fun. Every member of our household has made a character for any instruments he/she has interest in playing. If Jony is singing, he picks his singing character, if he's drumming, he picks his drumming character.

If we have guests, we only play Band World Tour if it's going to be a consistent session with the same band members for multiple sets. If there are guests over and we're going to be mixing and matching a lot, we just use Quick Play instead.

[ShadowOfEden]

Am I the only one that has no interest in online BWT? Not hearing the singer kills online for me. The best part about the local multiplayer aspect of this game is... well the local multiplayer aspect.

Nothing quite like hearing someone belt out a great take on Billy Corgan while someone else jumps around like he was on stage and the drummer goes nuts. Good times.

Online seems like it would be so boring.

Online wouldn't be as great, but if you know some friends who have the game and can't meet for some reasons, what is better? Online BWT or Solo BWT? I would take online.

[tbradshaw]

Am I the only one that has no interest in online BWT? Not hearing the singer kills online for me. The best part about the local multiplayer aspect of this game is... well the local multiplayer aspect.

Nothing quite like hearing someone belt out a great take on Billy Corgan while someone else jumps around like he was on stage and the drummer goes nuts. Good times.

Online seems like it would be so boring.

You are absolutely correct that local multiplayer is the best. I would love online band world tour because I've got a number of friends I've met at QuakeCon that I would love to be in a band with. Since we're scattered all over the country, local multiplayer isn't an option. But we'd love to enjoy the progression of BWT together, even if it is a pale shadow of local play.

Then, when we are back in Texas for QuakeCon in August... we could unite the band in real life! **** that would be an amazing moment for us. :)

[hmxsean]

As stated before, since it is our policy, we only release info when we know it is true. We're not going to come in here say everything we are working on, have to cut something because it is unrealistic or impossible and then have everyone gang up on us. We can say we are working on or looking at a bunch of these issues and when we have something we will let you know. We feel, at this point, that we have done a pretty good job of that.

[Maggot_Brain]

As stated before, since it is our policy, we only release info when we know it is true. We're not going to come in here say everything we are working on, have to cut something because it is unrealistic or impossible and then have everyone gang up on us. We can say we are working on or looking at a bunch of these issues and when we have something we will let you know. We feel, at this point, that we have done a pretty good job of that.

I understand. Patience is not always one of my virtues. Guess I'll crank up "Sweet Leaf" some more and try forget my sorrows. :cool:

[Insignificant_Other]

Am I the only one that has no interest in online BWT? Not hearing the singer kills online for me. The best part about the local multiplayer aspect of this game is... well the local multiplayer aspect.

Nothing quite like hearing someone belt out a great take on Billy Corgan while someone else jumps around like he was on stage and the drummer goes nuts. Good times.

Online seems like it would be so boring.

I was initially really bummed out by online BWT not being in the game. It's not easy for me to get people over to play, and I have yet to really organize a band bigger than myself and the one friend willing to come over once a week and play (actually, he doesn't have the game and by Tuesday evening he is having serious withdrawals and NEEDS to play him some RB). So I thought online BWT would be the ticket to fun.

However, now that I've had even just a couple times getting 3-4 people together to play locally, I'm starting to think that online wouldn't be all that different than playing solo (kind of like doing a certain something else over the phone - it's just not the same as actually being together). Apart from discussing where to go and what song to play, once the song starts you're still effectively playing alone. You will hear the mistakes your band members make (except in voice), and there is the coordination of overdrive to consider, but in the end I'm just thinking it won't be as fun as people are hoping it will be. Of course, for people with no other option it is better than nothing, but local BWT would probably be so much better all around.

If it gets patched in, I'd certainly use it, but I'm not as bummed about it's lack of inclusion any more.

[Hanika]

Well it goes without saying that Local Multiplayer is better.

But, for some of my online friends they rarely play the game now that they've beat Single player, and they simply have no one to play BWT with. For them it's a big deal.

Also, it's a big deal to me, because I only get maybe one night a week to get some Local BWT in. Where if it was online, I wouldn't have been playing Tomb Raider:Anniversary the last couple days, I woulda been in BWT.
The mode is amazing, and it sucks not having it online to play with friends.

It's fun to play online with people in ANY game, but it means so much more when there's a point behind it. Like progressing through a mode, earning cash for your character, etc.

[SoulScreme]

Let's get back on track, why no communication in a weeks time?

[HeXcoda]

As stated before, since it is our policy, we only release info when we know it is true. We're not going to come in here say everything we are working on, have to cut something because it is unrealistic or impossible and then have everyone gang up on us. We can say we are working on or looking at a bunch of these issues and when we have something we will let you know. We feel, at this point, that we have done a pretty good job of that.

Definitely the way to go. I've participated in a lot of online communities for a lot of games and talking up features that are still in development is a path to madness and tears. Schedules slip, things break down, plans fall apart, etc... and even if you preface it with "This may or may not be coming anytime soon..." fans WILL read it as "OMG it'll be here tomorrow!"

I am glad, though, that you're considering some of the issues raised, even if you can't discuss which ones. There are a lot of people who enjoy the game, but have to endure design decisions that are getting in the way of the fun. Anything you guys can do to re-examine your thinking and come up with new approaches is welcome!

[Eastwood]

Does anyone else realize why they no longer speak to us until they are 100% sure? Online BWT is a perfect example. They talked it up for a majority of the development and discussed it, sometimes as if it were certain, here on the boards only to have it pulled. Now they are blamed for lying. Here we are again, begging for info. Back in the day, they would oblige us every once and a while. I think they learned their lesson from that.

[SoulScreme]

As stated before, since it is our policy, we only release info when we know it is true. We're not going to come in here say everything we are working on, have to cut something because it is unrealistic or impossible and then have everyone gang up on us. We can say we are working on or looking at a bunch of these issues and when we have something we will let you know. We feel, at this point, that we have done a pretty good job of that.

Sean, I don't mean to offend, but do you really believe that? What qualifies as a pretty good job? All we've heard is you're aware of the Les Paul issue and that your sorry about the instruments. As a PS3 owner, I am starting to get a bit angry. There are three fairly major issues for the PS3 and nobody has said that they are fixing them, two of them haven't even been acknowledged. I know that PS3 is the minority console for the moment, but I paid $170 just like everybody else. I think that you guys should really take a look here http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board?board.id=warhawk

This game has been out for well over 4 months and the games creator is still posting directly to the boards as of November 16th. He was posting weekly or more when the game launched. He didn't go through forum mods or anything of the sort, the lead designer of the game was talking directly to the people. I am not saying that is required, but it is far beyond the level of community support shown here. And I think, by comparison, should be something Harmonix can strive for.

[ShadowOfEden]

As stated before, since it is our policy, we only release info when we know it is true. We're not going to come in here say everything we are working on, have to cut something because it is unrealistic or impossible and then have everyone gang up on us. We can say we are working on or looking at a bunch of these issues and when we have something we will let you know. We feel, at this point, that we have done a pretty good job of that.

As a programmer, I know that almost everything is possible, at least on the technical side. But usually, when something is cut or decided not to be added, it is because it would be too expensive (time * salary) and not worth enough to make up for it. ;)

[espher]

I loathed the day the game went live because I knew the forum would hit this point. It's just a moment I've come to dread over the years. ;)

[MF-PO'd]

Sean, I don't mean to offend, but do you really believe that? What qualifies as a pretty good job? All we've heard is you're aware of the Les Paul issue and that your sorry about the instruments. As a PS3 owner, I am starting to get a bit angry. There are three fairly major issues for the PS3 and nobody has said that they are fixing them, two of them haven't even been acknowledged. I know that PS3 is the minority console for the moment, but I paid $170 just like everybody else. I think that you guys should really take a look here http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board?board.id=warhawk

This game has been out for well over 4 months and the games creator is still posting directly to the boards as of November 16th. He was posting weekly or more when the game launched. He didn't go through forum mods or anything of the sort, the lead designer of the game was talking directly to the people. I am not saying that is required, but it is far beyond the level of community support shown here. And I think, by comparison, should be something Harmonix can strive for.

Agreed.

It _sounds_ like you guys are working on the PS3 LP issue, but I recall it also _sounded_ liked it would work in the first place. A direct "yes, we are working on the PS3 LP issue" would go a long way. I'd even accept a "we can't make any guarantees at this point" along with that.

[Eastwood]

I loathed the day the game went live because I knew the forum would hit this point. It's just a moment I've come to dread over the years. ;)

hahaha... QFT.

The HMX team had done a great job before launch of postind dev blogs and being involved in the community. I'm not fully aware of the situation with Warhawk, but I confidentally assume that this RB mess is a little bit too sensitive to have official employees make unauthorized comments. I'm sure Sean is telling us exactly what he is allowed to. He can't give us his opinion about anything because it may damage the company who signs his checks that he pays the rent with. For all we know, he may be in the same boat as us when it comes to how disappointed we are with this situation. He just can't say that because it would jeopardize his job.

[Parodygm]

Heh. Yeah, it might be a lame reason. But it's a valid, practical reason given the topic at hand. While this wouldn't have been a challenging change during earlier stages of development, I still content that this feature would be a lot of work for a little gain this late in the development cycle. (This portion would be known as "maintenance".)

I see the adding of custom NPC band members as one of the easiest gameplay changes they could make. The code to create band members is already in place. The code to select band members is already in place. What is missing is either a facility to include previously created players as NPCs or tailor-made NPCs that have no ability to be played. It almost seems trivial.

I also completely disagree with your assertion that it would be "a lot of work for a little gain". For those of us who care about such things, the immersion of tailoring your own band is critical to the core concept of the entire game. In my opinion, this should have been in the game from the outset.

[hkhawk]

People who want the fan cap removed must suck at this game. Why don't you try practicing or getting better.

[SoulScreme]

People who want the fan cap removed must suck at this game. Why don't you try practicing or getting better.

Dude, this thread is not about that. There is another thread all about that topic.

[gpitter]

On the tailor-made NPCs, if it simply looked for avatars in the current account and populated the band with them where possible (maybe doing this as an option people could toggle if they'd rather just have the standard random band members), I think it'd go a long way to making me feel much more connected to the game during solo tour or <4 person multiplayer. It's totally ripped right from how Miis are used all over the place in Wii Sports, but it works.

[SoulScreme]

On the tailor-made NPCs, if it simply looked for avatars in the current account and populated the band with them where possible (maybe doing this as an option people could toggle if they'd rather just have the standard random band members), I think it'd go a long way to making me feel much more connected to the game during solo tour or <4 person multiplayer. It's totally ripped right from how Miis are used all over the place in Wii Sports, but it works.

That could be kinda coo. Though I'd rather them focus on some of the technical issues, specifically the lack of ability to copy the save file on PS3. Basically Rock Band made it so I can't upgrade my hard drive without losing all of my RB progress.

[MorningThief581]

- Remove fan cap/ improve BWT
I'm one of the people who thinks this is a bad idea. Bands won't really have much to strive for if you can accomplish the same things on medium that you can on expert. Increasing difficulty has been a standard part of games for as long as I can remember.

- Hyperspeed option
I never bothered with HS in any of the GH games either... don't know what the big deal is.

- change instruments
I can see both sides of the argument for this. While it would be cool to have one super-musician who plays everything, it's not terribly realistic. Yes, there are people who can play all game modes on expert... but most musicians need to make a career choice at some point about which instrument they're going to stake their livelihoods on. At the same time, guitar/bass is interchangeable in this game. So I'm not sure what the rationale was. Come on Harmonix. You're a bunch of musicians. You should know that great guitarists don't necessarily make great bassists and vice versa. Also, they tend to have completely different personalities and styles on stage. So you've kind of opened the door on the interchangeable instruments thing right there. As a guitarist (a real guitarist), I can tell you that I sing much better than I play bass. So the idea that my guitar character could play bass but not go off on a singing tour is a bit baffling.

- change band leader
New band leader = New band.

- allow us to pick band mates that appear on stage in Solo and BWT.
This doesn't quite impact gameplay mechanics like the other suggested patches, but there's something to be said for having your band actually always look like the same band. Even if you don't want people to create new bandmates at the band creation screen, why not at least give people the option of filling the "open" slots in the band (at the beginning of each session) with characters they've already created under their profiles?

- Bass Solo tour
Bass solo tour might be somewhat monotonous with the full setlist of songs available, but there really should be something beyond quickplay. I haven't been through all the basslines yet, but Are You Gonna Be My Girl, Detroit Rock City, Sabotage, Electric Version, and Flirtin' With Disaster jump out immediately as parts that are fun to play and fairly challenging. In the case of Run To The Hills, expert bass is one of the most challenging things in the game. More than anything else though, I think just adding something that lets people view their bass scores without heading over to the leaderboard would add hours of gameplay time. A lot of the satisfaction in these games comes from trying to improve upon your previous performances. Check out the bass leaderboards and how relatively empty they are. That's because people can't see their bass scores on the songlist. Nobody knows whether they've already 3-starred, 4-starred, 5-starred, or gold-starred any of the bass lines. Heck, you can't even tell whether or not you've finished a song on bass without checking the leaderboard. I have no incentive to replay any bass parts because I can't tell whether or not I'm getting better. Do something about that and you might just find that bass becomes less of a neglected instrument among solo gamers.

[Hanover]

Okay, when I buy a $1499 HD TV at the store and I get home and realize it doesnt have Picture in Picture, I don't expect to be able to call Sony and demand that they give me Picture in Picture in the TV I just bought because I spent so much money for it.


Yeah, we should all shut up about an expensive product we purchased!!

[SoulScreme]

Okay, when I buy a $1499 HD TV at the store and I get home and realize it doesnt have Picture in Picture, I don't expect to be able to call Sony and demand that they give me Picture in Picture in the TV I just bought because I spent so much money for it.

You would if you'd been told that it had PiP by the box and by the company.

[Parodygm]

[- allow us to pick band mates that appear on stage in Solo and BWT.
I can understand people wanting to show off their bands or whatever, but this really isn't important. There are probably a million things more pertinent to gameplay than the appearance of your fake bandmates.

It's really not important to you apparently. Now that you've shot down all of these potential features and suggested that there are a million more pertinent ones, I think it's time for you to pony up in this thread and at least suggest several.

[Bluvox]

It's interesting times that we live in, that we can expect/ask for a company to make changes to a released product on a console. It wasn't until the PS3 and the 360 that this was really possible. It's a whole new world.

I think most of these requests are probably being reviewed by the development team, but let's remember 2 things: 1 - it's the holiday season.. people take vacation now. 2 - they just released the game, and folks probably couldn't take vacation from September til Thanksgiving, and were probably asked to put in a lot of extra hours to make this game happen.

Video games take a lot of time and talent to develop, and I'm sure they are watching what we are saying, but it takes time to post up status on various things.. time that could be spent fixing issues. I think the PS3 Les Paul issue is their #1, and hopefully they are talking with Activision/Red Octane about the GH2 and GH3 compatibility issues with their own hardware. It would surprise me if they aren't, actually.. as the industry is too young to have these arguments where folks have to pick sides: both sides would be loosers.

Everyone just needs to be patient and enjoy the game as it is. The game is as it was published until HMX decides that something is worth reviewing and working on the code. I'm positive they have a hot list of stuff they need to do, want to do, and would like to do still.. including putting out more kick ass DLC. They are already proving by the replacement equipment they care about their customers and are trying to make things right, just give them a chance to do the work. Coding isn't a 15 minute project.

[MorningThief581]

It's really not important to you apparently. Now that you've shot down all of these potential features and suggested that there are a million more pertinent ones, I think it's time for you to pony up in this thread and at least suggest several.
Actually, you're right. I got to thinking more about additional DLC content like new guitars, venues, accessories, etc... and how those would be welcome additions even though they have nothing to do with actual gameplay mechanics. So I take that back... and I'll edit it. While customized fake bandmates wouldn't make a lick of difference in terms of actual gameplay mechanics, I can see how they'd really add to the experience for certain people. When I'm wrong I'm wrong.

[Maggot_Brain]

Okay, when I buy a $1499 HD TV at the store and I get home and realize it doesnt have Picture in Picture, I don't expect to be able to call Sony and demand that they give me Picture in Picture in the TV I just bought because I spent so much money for it.

Gee, I dunno, hardware is a lot harder to change than software?

[Hanover]

So where did Harmonix lie to us?


You would if you'd been told that it had PiP by the box and by the company.

[Bluvox]

That's probably a rip on the PS3 Les Paul issue.

[Calibos]

That could be kinda coo. Though I'd rather them focus on some of the technical issues, specifically the lack of ability to copy the save file on PS3. Basically Rock Band made it so I can't upgrade my hard drive without losing all of my RB progress.

Dude, I think you and I are the only ones asking about this!!

I got a 250 gb drive that I am waiting to install, and quite frankly, I dont feel like having to start all my solo modes and BWT over from scratch. And, I dont feel like I should have to. I've asked this question multiple times but it has never been officially addressed.

HMX please address this question!!!

[tbradshaw]

Dude, I think you and I are the only ones asking about this!!

I got a 250 gb drive that I am waiting to install, and quite frankly, I dont feel like having to start all my solo modes and BWT over from scratch. And, I dont feel like I should have to. I've asked this question multiple times but it has never been officially addressed.

HMX please address this question!!!

I'm with you, but I think you should start a new thread in the Tech Support forum about this (if there isn't already one). This thread is mainly on a different topic, so I don't think that you'll get the response you want from in here.

[Hanover]

Oh, well patches to fix bugs is an entirely different story...and they've already said they're working on that issue?

It's not even the suggestions...but suggestions should be just that...suggestions.

Its just this air that people demand to have their suggestions put into the game since they paid so much for it...as if they were forced into buying it. Thats what I'm talking about. It's arrogant to think that we should always get what we want simply because we figured if we put down $170 on a game that they would make it any way we wanted it to....and that they could do it by just snapping their fingers.




That's probably a rip on the PS3 Les Paul issue.

[Parodygm]

Actually, you're right. I got to thinking more about additional DLC content like new guitars, venues, accessories, etc... and how those would be welcome additions even though they have nothing to do with actual gameplay mechanics. So I take that back... and I'll edit it. While customized fake bandmates wouldn't make a lick of difference in terms of actual gameplay mechanics, I can see how they'd really add to the experience for certain people. When I'm wrong I'm wrong.

I probably came out a little more aggressively there than necessary! ;)

I pretty much agree with your thinking on all the other counts.

The fan cap is an incentive to improve and step up. I only see it as an issue for people expecting instant gratification. I suspect that a lot of bands are struggling with Hard drums. Why not try the relatively easier Hard vocals or bass if fans are that important in the interrim?

Hyperspeed can be interesting for the solo player. I understand leaving it out of Rock Band. I'm not opposed to it being there for solo play or even local multiplayer. For online play it would be more trouble than it's worth: I don't want to see people dropping out of sessions because they couldn't agree on whether or not to turn it on.

The band leader is a mild irritant. I wouldn't complain if it was changed but I undrestand that the mechanics of how the game is coded probably precludes that. I think there's enough flexibility to change non-lead band members and play in multiple bands that this isn't a deal breaker for me.

I think the same coding difficulties would be present for allowing multi-instrumentalists. I like the idea of having that ability, but I also like to be encouraged to create multiple characters and having separate careers.

Bass solo tour seems like it wouldn't be too hard to implement. I don't necessarily think I'd find it that gripping, but I can't think of a good reason not to have it if people really wanted it.

But I'm adamant that we should be able to tailor our band member! :D

[Bakkster]

- change instruments
Wall o' text

- Bass Solo tour
Wall o' text

I would like to see multi-instrumentalists that just don't have access to instrument specific clothing options (like the Zildjian hoodie, or the Halford Harness). If you need an example, see Dave Grohl. ;) I'd anticipate this to be in RB2 before RB, unless we all get our minds blown with RB1.5 :eek: (pure speculation, or course)

As much as I still wish for a bass career, I understand why it doesn't exist. Partly because HMX avoided bass solos :( , and partly because that would be the preferred method for unlocking songs. There are ways to get around this, of course (unlock Bass tour only after unlocking all songs/beating guitar tour), but hardly anything that I am disappointed to be missing, anymore. Quickplay was an ample addition for me.

[Strutter]

Those would all be nice improvements. My main hope, though, is that all future updates are handled via DLC. I DO NOT WANT A RETAIL SEQUEL TO THIS GAME! If I buy 50 DLC tracks over the course of the next year, I will be pissed if come next November I suddenly have to load up two different games that split up the songs and features.

I can understand that the time & money investment in building or expanding some features might make free patches to the existing game unattractive to HMX, as well as the appeal of occasionally rotating a new product into the retail chain to keep it fresh. But if they feel they have to do this, they should at least make RB2 available as a DLC expansion to the existing game, so existing users can keep everything available in one place. Swapping discs out because you want to play a certain song would be an utter killjoy.


I'm definitely with you on that as well. Although at some point they will come out with RB2, I for one hope it's not next year at least. GH is redundant because it has a new game every year now.

They could easily pacify us and make the profit they need through DLC. I sure hope EA gives us some time with this game and doesn't just rush the next one out the door too soon. And besides, having everything on one disc(DLC) is nice....coming out with a new game will screw things up and probably make all the songs I've been forking the cash over for incompatible...

[dfjdejulio]

Partly because HMX avoided bass solos :( , and partly because that would be the preferred method for unlocking songs.Well, other than red, yellow, blue, red, red, blue, blue, red, yellow, blue. That's just about the first thing that gets typed in at lunchtime every day here at the office...

(At lunch where I work, a bunch of us mill around the company XBox and trade off who's playing what. It's all quick-play stuff. Thank goodness there's a code to just unlock everything.)

[Parodygm]

Honestly, what further needs to be done to the core of the Rock Band content? It has all the instruments we need. If they're smart, they've signed the content up to be licensed automatically for any sequels so that DLC integrates seamlessly into any RB2 release.

If Rock Band 2 were to come out in a year's time and be an engine upgrade with some bonus features while retaining compatibility with the RB basic setlist + DLC I'd be ecstatic.

If it was to come out in a year's time after we've spent a bundle on DLC and not have compatibility with Rock Band or have trouble licensing that content, I probably wouldn't buy it on principle.

[erickOnasis412]

i hate this fan cap complaint.. its part of the game, get over it.. i like the fact that people have to play on harder levels to gain more fans.. i mean that's just part of the game.. why don't you suggest to harmonix that they hire people to play and beat the game for you while you're at it..

the hyperspeed thing i never got into.. honestly i hope including hyperspeed is not on the top of the "to do list"..

changing instruments, changing band leaders, picking band mates, and bass solo tour would be cool though.. not really anxiouly awaiting those features or anything but it would be cool to see in the future

[Grey_Street]

i hate this fan cap complaint.. its part of the game, get over it.. i like the fact that people have to play on harder levels to gain more fans.. i mean that's just part of the game.. why don't you suggest to harmonix that they hire people to play and beat the game for you while you're at it..

the hyperspeed thing i never got into.. honestly i hope including hyperspeed is not on the top of the "to do list"..

changing instruments, changing band leaders, picking band mates, and bass solo tour would be cool though.. not really anxiouly awaiting those features or anything but it would be cool to see in the future

Why is not being able to change insruments/band leaders/bandmates, or the bass solo tour mode any less a "part of the game" than the fan cap? Because it is a feature you want? That's perfectly fine if you don't agree w/ the suggestion, but don't discount simply because you don't like it. It is just as legitimate an idea as the others.

[dfjdejulio]

Honestly, what further needs to be done to the core of the Rock Band content?
Eventually?

Sax/horn/flute controller (a "blow and push things" controller with a hinge and turnable section so you could bend a bit into slightly different shapes, basically), dance pad integration (some of the female vocalists I've been playing with would go nuts for this I think), MIDI adapter for keyboard support, and removal of the 4-player cap (even if it's still only 4 per console).

Don't need any of that within 18 months, though.

(Also, I want "Theremin Hero"...)

[DesiredFX]

(Also, I want "Theremin Hero"...)

Few things, if any, would be more awesome.

[Parodygm]

Interesting ideas. I don't know if you can make that fly. The moment you add those controllers into the game is the moment you either have to determine that some songs cannot be played with certain instruments or that all songs chosen for the sets must feature parts designed for those additional controllers. That seems quite limiting to me either way.

That would probably have to be tackled in a different project to the Rock Band one, something not encompassed by a Rock Band 2.

[erickOnasis412]

well to be honest, i don't think any of the suggestions are really that important for updates.. first off, the most important update for PS3 owners is getting their GH3 guitars working with rock band.. those are issues that should be fixed first.. the fan cap isn't some sortof HUGE glitch or bug that's preventing the game from functioning right

the game is no less fun just because somebody can't add fans to their "band".. its still the same, fun game.. if you come to a location that requires more fans for your band, then this is where the game becomes more fun! you've all gotta practice and get better in order to progress.. i mean isn't that what made video games fun in the first place? the fact that you might get stuck on a part of the game and play through it a million times and then finally beat it down the road?

and if you want to unlock all the songs, play through a solo tour on Easy and unlock them.. then you could still play in quickplay with family and friends with the full set list

and don't say "but grandma wants to play BWT mode" cuz i can guarantee you grandma doesn't give a damn about BWT.. the game is made to be fun, and you can STILL have just as much fun regardless of how many virtual fans you have

[ShadowOfEden]

That could be kinda coo. Though I'd rather them focus on some of the technical issues, specifically the lack of ability to copy the save file on PS3. Basically Rock Band made it so I can't upgrade my hard drive without losing all of my RB progress.

I've never considered it. I wanted to change my HDD sometime in 2008 when the huge amount of user made content for LBP and UT3 and DLC for RB will take a big part on my HDD. It seems I'll have to change it sooner than expected or live with it. An easier fix could be to limit the file to the PSN ID. The only problem I saw about that before was that, if I bring RB at my friend's home and he has a PS3, there's no way I can carry our band to his PS3.




- change instruments
I can see both sides of the argument for this. While it would be cool to have one super-musician who plays everything, it's not terribly realistic. Yes, there are people who can play all game modes on expert... but most musicians need to make a career choice at some point about which instrument they're going to stake their livelihoods on. At the same time, guitar/bass is interchangeable in this game. So I'm not sure what the rationale was. Come on Harmonix. You're a bunch of musicians. You should know that great guitarists don't necessarily make great bassists and vice versa. Also, they tend to have completely different personalities and styles on stage. So you've kind of opened the door on the interchangeable instruments thing right there. As a guitarist (a real guitarist), I can tell you that I sing much better than I play bass. So the idea that my guitar character could play bass but not go off on a singing tour is a bit baffling.


I think that if the player can do it, so does the character. Most people will have an instrument that they are better with, and few people will be able to play expert will all 4 instruments, but if they want to lend their guitar to the drummer and take his seat, then the character should be able to do the same. There's nothing technical there, as the characters can technically play all instruments, all we need is the option to swap it.

[sporkBrigade]

Why is not being able to change insruments/band leaders/bandmates, or the bass solo tour mode any less a "part of the game" than the fan cap? Because it is a feature you want? That's perfectly fine if you don't agree w/ the suggestion, but don't discount simply because you don't like it. It is just as legitimate an idea as the others.

There's a factor of time involved with these suggestions. If some of us feel like certain features aren't that important, even though it seems negative, it's can still be important to state the fact. If it's not as important to the vast majority, then why should we spend a lot of time pretending it is? One of my problems with this thread in general is that the OP stated certain things as fact that are actually very much under debate. The community at large is very far from stating things like "The Fan Cap must change!" There are a lot of us who are happy with it. Of course, happy people tend to be softer of voice...

Having said all that, I desperately want to be able to design my fill in bandmates. It's would increase my enjoyment of the game immensely. ;D

[Parodygm]

There's a factor of time involved with these suggestions. If some of us feel like certain features aren't that important, even though it seems negative, it's can still be important to state the fact. If it's not as important to the vast majority, then why should we spend a lot of time pretending it is? One of my problems with this thread in general is that the OP stated certain things as fact that are actually very much under debate. The community at large is very far from stating things like "The Fan Cap must change!" There are a lot of us who are happy with it. Of course, happy people tend to be softer of voice...

Having said all that, I desperately want to be able to design my fill in bandmates. It's would increase my enjoyment of the game immensely. ;D

Yup, I'm desperately wanting to do the same thing. It doesn't feel like a band when I'm playing with some weird NPCs that don't fit into the concept I want to create.

Still, as other people have noted, there really are some PS3 issues that should be cleaned up before anything else. The GH3 controller is a priority. I did read somewhere that someone claims that this was solved (a G4 interview?) and this lead me to believe that it would be included shortly.

[PatrickY]

Of all the things listed, I'm most disappointed that there's no option to design your own band mates in solo play, or in a BWT with less than 4 players. My wife and I play BWT just about every night, but we only have our third player over every few days. If we could make our own bandmates (or have our buddies drummer as an NPC), we'd both be much happier.

Particularly since so many of the generic characters look so damn dumb, or at least so far out there they don't fit at all. Power pop bassist and Death Metal Kiss cosplayer are not high on our list of ideal band members.

[Eastwood]

Of all the things listed, I'm most disappointed that there's no option to design your own band mates in solo play, or in a BWT with less than 4 players. My wife and I play BWT just about every night, but we only have our third player over every few days. If we could make our own bandmates (or have our buddies drummer as an NPC), we'd both be much happier.

Particularly since so many of the generic characters look so damn dumb, or at least so far out there they don't fit at all. Power pop bassist and Death Metal Kiss cosplayer are not high on our list of ideal band members.

YEah, it sucks when you have three band mates dressed in black and then some tool that looks like a homeless lumberjack or ryan reynolds (cant decide which) from amityville horror be your lead singer.

[PatrickY]

YEah, it sucks when you have three band mates dressed in black and then some tool that looks like a homeless lumberjack or ryan reynolds (cant decide which) from amityville horror be your lead singer.

Yeah. I'm really getting tired of skid row Paul Bunyan's face.

At least let me change their damn outfits, guys.

[tbradshaw]

Yeah. I'm really getting tired of skid row Paul Bunyan's face.

At least let me change their damn outfits, guys.

Ahahahah, yeah. We typically joke something along the lines of, "And tonight, filling in on lead vocals for our usually amazing Jonypawks, is Hank from the local band Maple Syrup!"

[sporkBrigade]

YEah, it sucks when you have three band mates dressed in black and then some tool that looks like a homeless lumberjack or ryan reynolds (cant decide which) from amityville horror be your lead singer.

That's my favorite Singer in the entire game. He's amazing. If anything, he's on my list of arguements to KEEP random Fill-Ins.

Seriously, what's wrong with you?

[DesiredFX]

Yup, I'm desperately wanting to do the same thing. It doesn't feel like a band when I'm playing with some weird NPCs that don't fit into the concept I want to create.

I was playing "Heroes" and Grizzly Adams showed up to sing.

A far cry from the Thin White Duke.

[Eastwood]

Ahahahah, yeah. We typically joke something along the lines of, "And tonight, filling in on lead vocals for our usually amazing Jonypawks, is Hank from the local band Maple Syrup!"

I'm starting to suspect that the "random" characters in the game are actually characters created by HMX employees. There is a guitarist with a mohawk that looks like sean...

[sporkBrigade]

I'm starting to suspect that the "random" characters in the game are actually characters created by HMX employees. There is a guitarist with a mohawk that looks like sean...

Oh, the "random" characters are absolutely not randomly created. It's a list of characters that are sitting on the game disk. Who created them may be a mystery, but they were designed. Some of those characters are the same ones we've seen in demo videos since E3.

[Eastwood]

My theory is that they had HMX employees make their own characters and then had a contest to see which ones make it into the game.

[Parodygm]

I was playing "Heroes" and Grizzly Adams showed up to sing.

Hahahah! Somewhat related, my favorite is the multi-song set where I get the metalhead guy with the spiked leather outfit singing "I'm So Sick" as the second of the two.

[Iddy_Biddy]

Fan cap needs to stay. Don't make it easier for people, just keep it. I mean, it's part of being in a Rock Band.

[dfjdejulio]

Interesting ideas. I don't know if you can make that fly. The moment you add those controllers into the game is the moment you either have to determine that some songs cannot be played with certain instruments or that all songs chosen for the sets must feature parts designed for those additional controllers. That seems quite limiting to me either way.
IMO, it's worth it -- I find the current requirement that every song must support every role even more limiting. It means we can't have instrumentals, and there are some instrumentals I very much like to play. Heck, from other games, some of my favorite tracks include "Cliffs of Dover", "YYZ", and "Frankenstein".

I very much hope that Harmonix decides that it's okay to have (clearly-marked) DLC at least that doesn't support all four roles. If it's DLC, then the people who want all four roles can avoid buying it, but those of us who want a few instrumentals can get more variety.

[Parodygm]

IMO, it's worth it -- I find the current requirement that every song must support every role even more limiting. It means we can't have instrumentals, and there are some instrumentals I very much like to play. Heck, from other games, some of my favorite tracks include "Cliffs of Dover", "YYZ", and "Frankenstein".

I very much hope that Harmonix decides that it's okay to have (clearly-marked) DLC at least that doesn't support all four roles. If it's DLC, then the people who want all four roles can avoid buying it, but those of us who want a few instrumentals can get more variety.

I'm with you on that one, although I suspect that a restricted number of roles for certain songs would go against what Harmonix are trying to accomplish with the game, ie. maximum group dynamics. They'd also get their share of complaints from people buying it (clearly labelled or not) only to realise that their buddy can't sing along.

Incidentally, I love "Cliffs of Dover" and the others you mention. I'd really like to see something like "Summer Song" by Joe Satriani show up in Rock Band as well, but the lack of a vocal track is an obvious impediment.

[ivan50265]

I agree with many of the posters on this thread. If this game is to be an ongoing development process much like an mmo it would be nice to see what coming soon and what is on the horizon. The only way they can't know what we want if if they have abandoned the forums alltogether or have fired their community reps neither I think have happened. If the company wants to keep us interested then it is in their best interest to keep us informed of the process.

[MPeters]

I think thats fine if the moderator says that they can't fix it. But when he is making it look like our efforts are unrealistic, makes it all feel we mean nothing. The game designers made it this way and that way on purpose, no sh!t. Even though I don't care about any changes in the game I think it's pretty sorry that if other people who actually BUY and PLAY the game think there is ways to make the game better for people then why not listen. Rock Band 1 is fine, thats how they wanted it and they did a good job. people will stop crying eventually and play the game anyways. but maybe when the 2nd one rolls around, i don't see the surprise in changes. rather than us seem ignored why not just mention that HMX is in the mix of discussing these issues. all problems should be looked at equally too, even the hyperspeed and fan cap. the "good players" want hyperspeed, give it to them. and the "new players" want fan cap removed, sure. hmx can cover all the players. could happen in rock band 2.

the only problem i have is when we made our band leader the drummer, and of course the drums broke the first 2 times and we were unable to play our band without the drums signed in. maybe not a flaw of the game design but as a GAME i was wondering if people at hmx even play rock band? many of these things are obvious that people are going to complain about even if they aren't "problems" to the game itself. again i have no worries about anything being "fixed" im just trying to back fellow gamers up.

[Hanover]

I think Harmonix is starting to regret all those comments they made about how Rockband was viewed by them as an open platform.

[Hanover]

Yeah, and you couldn't create another band with the same name putting the guitar or vocals as the leader?


the only problem i have is when we made our band leader the drummer, and of course the drums broke the first 2 times and we were unable to play our band without the drums signed in.

[Parodygm]

Yeah, and you couldn't create another band with the same name putting the guitar or vocals as the leader?

Correct. You can't.

[Amish Robot]

I believe that they are somewhat justified in their silence. They have given us the answers to some of their decisions (ie. lack of Hyperspeed and online BWT) but to expect them to justify every decision that was made during the developmental process is a bit unrealistic.

Personally, I've found Harmonix to be far more open about their decision-making process and reasoning than most other game devs out there. It's been refreshing, and I can only assume that the recent quiet is a sign of either heavy evaluation or a well-deserved vacation.

[Amish Robot]

I was playing "Heroes" and Grizzly Adams showed up to sing.

A far cry from the Thin White Duke.

Ever listen to Grandaddy? Jason Lytle proves that even a redneck with a barista beard can be a sensitive falsetto. :D

Grizzly Adams is actually probably my favorite pre-generated character in the game, though I'm still partial to Harrison Fjord, my Scandanavian hillbilly guitarist. :)

[sporkBrigade]

Correct. You can't.

Well, you can, you just don't get to keep the first band. But if it was two songs in like you claim, that's not really an issue. You don't have to recreate the characters, you just delete the band and recreate it using another character.


I think thats fine if the moderator says that they can't fix it. But when he is making it look like our efforts are unrealistic, makes it all feel we mean nothing. The game designers made it this way and that way on purpose, no sh!t. Even though I don't care about any changes in the game I think it's pretty sorry that if other people who actually BUY and PLAY the game think there is ways to make the game better for people then why not listen. Rock Band 1 is fine, thats how they wanted it and they did a good job. people will stop crying eventually and play the game anyways. but maybe when the 2nd one rolls around, i don't see the surprise in changes. rather than us seem ignored why not just mention that HMX is in the mix of discussing these issues. all problems should be looked at equally too, even the hyperspeed and fan cap. the "good players" want hyperspeed, give it to them. and the "new players" want fan cap removed, sure. hmx can cover all the players. could happen in rock band 2.

the only problem i have is when we made our band leader the drummer, and of course the drums broke the first 2 times and we were unable to play our band without the drums signed in. maybe not a flaw of the game design but as a GAME i was wondering if people at hmx even play rock band? many of these things are obvious that people are going to complain about even if they aren't "problems" to the game itself. again i have no worries about anything being "fixed" im just trying to back fellow gamers up.

First and foremost, the Mod you speak of was crystal clear that his opinions in this thread were his own, and had nothing to do with his status on these boards. If you don't like what he said, super, but his being a Mod has nothing to do with anything.

Second, if a suggestion is unrealistic, there's nothing wrong with pointing that out. There are good reasons why a lot of these decisions were made, and bringing them up is not mean. People want a Bass Solo Tour. Well, there are good reasons why there isn't one, and it IS unrealistic to expect it to change. No one ever said you don't have the right to ask, though. But those of us who disagree sure as hell have a right to point out what's wrong with the suggestion.

[alcano]

Personally, I've found Harmonix to be far more open about their decision-making process and reasoning than most other game devs out there. It's been refreshing, and I can only assume that the recent quiet is a sign of either heavy evaluation or a well-deserved vacation.

And working on the European/Australian/Asian versions (well I assume, that's a lot of work, anyways).

Whatever it might be, I'm sure, they're doing an awesome job... :D

[hmxsean]

Well if anyone is interested we have been working on this-

http://community.rockband.com/vbforum/showthread.php?p=170984#post170984

[alcano]

Well if anyone is interested we have been working on this-

http://community.rockband.com/vbforum/showthread.php?p=170984#post170984

I guess there might actually be 1 or 2 PS3 owners (at the most) slightly interested in that, yes. ;)

Really hope for you guys that the GH-guitars now work with RB!

[ShadowOfEden]

Personally, I've found Harmonix to be far more open about their decision-making process and reasoning than most other game devs out there. It's been refreshing, and I can only assume that the recent quiet is a sign of either heavy evaluation or a well-deserved vacation.

The best at that was Insomniac, in my opinion. I was very impressed that devs were responding to most of our questions and suggestions on their official boards. Of course, they weren't accepting all of them, but they were saying why when they weren't totally crazy.

Being listened by the devs is great and gamers love it. Other devs should follow Insomniac for that.

[Maggot_Brain]

Sooooooo, whatya working on now?