Thread Locking

[SoulScreme]

So, I'm a bit concerned about the thread locking policy. It seems that the following things will get a thread locked:


Flaming, fighting swearing. Totally legitimate.
Repeat posting. Totally legitimate.
Any talk of the PS3 patch. Apparently we can't discuss it.
Long threads. The fan cap removal thread was locked. They said it got flamey, but it was more civil now than it has been for the past 2 weeks.
Anything that upsets, criticizes, or other wise rubs the mods the wrong way.


It's just my opinion that in recent days HMX seems to have decided to change their tactics from using a "guiding hand" to using an "iron fist."

Expect this thread to be locked quickly.

[WiredRacing]

I think basically any subject with an official reply (or sticky) already in existence is closed. Anything that's still up for debate/discussion is allowed.

There's an insane number of threads posted here and WAAAAAAAY too much repetition. There's a search button for a reason. I hope the closing or repetitive threads sends that much needed message.

[MrMet2087]

yeah tdbrashaw or whatever his name is is the WORST! HE LOCKS EVERYTHING!!!!! its really annoying, his moderator status should be revoked because every time i come on, somethong is locked and linked to him, and this will be locked too, even though this isn't flaming, some of the "mods" are killing our free speech, i think mods should be stuck to sean and john and thats it. actually apples is fair too, but thats it! how the hell did bradshaw become a mod anyways??? he is so bias and locks anything he doesnt agree with, so im saying it now before this is locked or deleted knowing the way he is, i hope the REAL mods read this and re consider their choices on who they make moderators.

[HMXJohnlok]

So, I'm a bit concerned about the thread locking policy. It seems that the following things will get a thread locked:


Flaming, fighting swearing. Totally legitimate.
Repeat posting. Totally legitimate.
Any talk of the PS3 patch. Apparently we can't discuss it.
Long threads. The fan cap removal thread was locked. They said it got flamey, but it was more civil now than it has been for the past 2 weeks.
Anything that upsets, criticizes, or other wise rubs the mods the wrong way.


It's just my opinion that in recent days HMX seems to have decided to change their tactics from using a "guiding hand" to using an "iron fist."

Expect this thread to be locked quickly.

The patch: I'm sorry if you feel that way. In our opinion, keeping mis-information from spreading about the patch is far more important right now. We have been more than forthcoming about the updates - we simply don't have actual firm information yet to give you.

"long" threads: there are a number of long threads out there. Take for example the thread in "general" about complimenting the person above. We don't mind the length of threads, as long as they stick to the original topic and aren't littered with insults and negativity (take the Christian Band thread in the Ultimate Set List). If the tone sucks, we don't want new users to have to sift through pages and pages of trash.

Anything that upsets us: that is silly, and straight up wrong. I'm sorry if you feel that way.

P.S. If you have issues with a thread that is locked by either myself, Sean, or any of the community mods, feel free to comment through a private message, and we will review the thread in question. I stand by all of our community mods. As far as I'm concerned, they do a good job and should be thanked for the hard (and often thankless) work they do.

[SoulScreme]

I agree, repetitive threads are one thing. But to post an official response, then lock that, then not allow users to create threads for discussing the official response is ridiculous. Don't criticize, don't raise concerns, just sit and wait for Harmonix to tell you how it is. That's not a forum, that's a news letter.

[SoulScreme]

The patch: I'm sorry if you feel that way. In our opinion, keeping mis-information from spreading about the patch is far more important right now. We have been more than forthcoming about the updates - we simply don't have actual firm information yet to give you.

"long" threads: there are a number of long threads out there. Take for example the thread in "general" about complimenting the person above. We don't mind the length of threads, as long as they stick to the original topic and aren't littered with insults and negativity (take the Christian Band thread in the Ultimate Set List). If the tone sucks, we don't want new users to have to sift through pages and pages of trash.

Anything that upsets us: that is silly, and straight up wrong. I'm sorry if you feel that way.

What is this disinformation? I've heard it from you and from Sean. Here's my point, if you KNOW it's disinformation then why don't YOU post and tell people? I mean, to just sit there and essentially silence discussion because of disinformation, but do nothing to rectify it is silly and controlling. Basically, this disinformation argument says that you actually know more than you are telling us.

[HMXJohnlok]

We are telling you as much as we can. PS3 compatibility issues have been a real hot button on the boards since launch. I will not bend on this, and I don't want people to get needlessly upset.

[SoulScreme]

We are telling you as much as we can. PS3 compatibility issues have been a real hot button on the boards since launch. I will not bend on this, and I don't want people to get needlessly upset.

Well, though the locking seems to be going a bit overboard, I'll give the benefit of the doubt as these forums are much saner than the GH3 forums.

[hmxsean]

What is this disinformation? I've heard it from you and from Sean. Here's my point, if you KNOW it's disinformation then why don't YOU post and tell people? I mean, to just sit there and essentially silence discussion because of disinformation, but do nothing to rectify it is silly and controlling. Basically, this disinformation argument says that you actually know more than you are telling us.

Like the disinformation where you say John said things he didn't? Or the parts where you spread info about how the patch is done and what's going on? I appreciate that people want to talk about this, and as I already explained to you in pm we are working our butts off to get good information out there as soon as it is available. Until then, yes we will be locking threads that prevents good info from getting out there when it becomes available. That policy won't be changing any time soon.

[tbradshaw]

A couple clarifications for your comments:

The moderators (feigned, Apples and myself) are autonomous. While I would contend there hasn't been a change on thread locking policy, if you do perceive one it doesn't come from Harmonix.

The PS3 patch has been declared off limits for discussion because it was immediately leading to misinformation. Sean is going to report back when he has some solid facts, but until then speculation is going out of control and the misinformation is a disservice to our forum goers.

Second, I'm happy to expand on my standards for thread management, and a bit about my process. First, I'll discussed "to close or not to close", second I'll discuss "moving threads".

Some of my standards include:

1) Fresh or valuable discussion.
2) Constructive discussion.
3) Mature discussion.

The standard phases of thread life are:

1) New thread
2) Initial discussion
3) Extended discussion

I judge each thread based on my three core values in light on which phase of thread life the thread is currently in.

New Threads
When I come across a new thread, the first check is if this is fresh or valuable discussion. A topic that hasn't been discussed before is clearly fresh, while an identical or similarly identical topic that has an older thread is not. In addition, a repeated but valuable new topic is still okay. If they are legitimately looking at a previous topic in a new light, that's cool. Or perhaps the situation and/or evidence has changed for that topic.

Just starting a new thread is constructive if the first value is met, and to meet the maturity value just means that basic adult decorum was followed.

Most threads in this category that I close end with, "Please use the search function."

Initial Discussion
When I'm coming back to a thread in the "initial discussion" phase, or perhaps visiting one for the first time, I'm looking at this same values in a different light. The initial discussion on a thread that passed the "new thread" stage without being closed is almost always fresh or new. However, if the initial discussion phase is very repetitive, it can be a sign that I've missed an older thread and actually this one is a duplicate.

Next, I look for constructive discussion. This depends a little bit on the topic, but generally I answer one of the questions: "Is the original post's question being answered?", "Is the knowledge base of the forums being improved?", "Are people having a good time?" Which question I look for depends on the original topic. If they they asked a question, it's the first one, if the initial discussion is providing some great background or learning process, then we are still in the initial discussion phase, even if the question was already answered. Sometimes topics are just for fun, like the "Enter Sandman on Expert" thread where people are just enjoying the fun of expert on drums or the "What song did you find for the first time in Rock Band" thread where people are discussing new favorites in music.

The check for mature discussion is just checking for flames, personal attacks, or hijacks. If the thread is still getting good feedback despite a maturity problem, then it's usually just a warning post. However, sadly, even in this early stage in thread-life a maturity problem can kill a thread by making reading the thread annoying enough that no one desires to constructively add to the thread.

The initial discussion phase has a nebulous ending. The initial discussion phase ends when the thread has "concluded" with a clear answer to the original question, or perhaps a stalemate of questions of opinion that has brought no new views to the table.

Extended Discussion
Extended discussion is the phase threads take after there has been conclusion in the thread. I still look for the original three values, but they have slightly different qualifications. If a thread is entering the extended discussion phase, the very first question I ask is Was the conclusion to the initial discussion important? If the conclusion was important, then I'm closing the thread. Extended discussion can happen if someone can find a new twist on the topic to start a new one. But if extended discussion continues on a thread with an important conclusion, the conclusion will be effectively lost forever to those that search. (No one is going to check page 10 of a 35 page thread for the answer that is contained within.)

Next, I'm looking for "fresh" and "constructive" at the same time. Are posts repeating themselves? If we're not fresh anymore, it's likely we've hit a discussion stalemate and there's not going to be anything coming out of this thread fresh from here on out. "Fresh" can mean a bit of topic drift. That's just find in the extended discussion as long as it's a constructive tangent. For instance, chatting a bit about your physical location at the end of a thread to make new friends is fine, as long as it's not burying an important conclusion.

Maturity is often the killer on extended discussion, as most extended discussion flames out. A really bad flame filled thread is usually a failure of moderation to recognize that the "fresh" quality of the thread was already gone. People start chasing around in circles and just get pissed when the other side still doesn't "get it".

In the example you used, the fan cap, it had flamed up, gotten a little more tame, but there was still no freshness. I closed it before the flames got stoked back up.

I'll make a separate post about moving.

[WiredRacing]

Yeah seriously .. 186 posts to an annoucment thread within a day, half of them "I don't have it yet, do you?" and all sorts of speculation.. in an annoucement thread. People referring to the gamespot editor firing.. I mean jesus.

I don't see anything wrong cutting that off. And again, I don't think Sean or the other HMX employee mods really want to have to respond to every single one of the 50 threads on one issue when they've said all they can and/or will.

At the end of the day, you guys gotta realize the attitude taken if something said doesn't happen exactly as it was said, you guys bring down the seven plagues. So no wonder most of the 'official' posts are noncommital and vague.

[SoulScreme]

Those rules for moving, locking, etc. are great. Thanks.

[HMXJohnlok]

Those rules for moving, locking, etc. are great. Thanks.

A lot of his guidelines are stuff that HMX is looking for as well. That being said, the boards are a sort of evolving amorphous mess, and we reserve the right to make judgment calls on a case-by-case basis.

[Apples]

I have had people PM me in the past to inquire on a lock process. In general, I have always been able to provide solid reasoning that met the end user's expectations.

[tbradshaw]

Moving threads can be weird, as our forum divisions aren't particularly well defined, but here are the guidelines I've been using.

The Rock Band Forum

The most active and most informative forum, I try to keep a real tight belt on. It's trivially easy for the "main" forum section to get overrun with every topic, and so I'm quick to prune and quick to close. I'm on the Rock Band forum about 5 hours a day, I'm on the other forums minutes a day.

I narrowly define the Rock Band forum to topics directly relating to the Rock Band game. Everything anywhere on the site is indirectly related to Rock Band, so the Rock Band core forum is just directly related topics.

My most common moves:


Anything about music that isn't in Rock Band. Awesome discussion, but I usually punt it to Ultimate Setlist if they mention DLC, or General if they don't.
Anything about a broken anything. To Tech Support you go, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. These flame out so freakin' fast on the Rock Band forum it's crazy.
Anything that is about delivery, arrival, transit, timing, whatever of a service replacement of anything that's broken. To Tech Support. All of these threads are only indirectly related to Rock Band and while some are just people wanting to chat about waiting for a replacement and should probably go to General... I can't figure out a "bright line" to make the distinction. I punt to Tech Support every time.
Repost of something another mod moved. I don't reevaluate a decision that another mod made. If they moved it, and it's a repost it, I move it again, no questions asked.


My redirect style:

I try to avoid permanent redirects... ever. If I think that the topic needs a permanent redirect, then maybe it doesn't need moved at all.

If something is super recent but horribly off topic, I'll give it about a business day of redirect. Mainly, so anyone looking back on their topic can find it still.

If something isn't very recent and is very off topic, I'll punt it with no redirect.

If something is off topic, but debatably so, I punt it with a couple days of redirect.

[Eastwood]

In response to the negativity locking:

This community was extremely peaceful before launch. We knew all the flamers and trolls by name and could count them on two hands, if not one. Before launch, a lot of community members stated that they were worried about that changing after the game gains more popularity. I think the mods are holding true to that. Apples was one of the guys stating it would be a shame for this great community to be overrun with flaming, 10 year old trolls... and that was before he was a mod!! It is great that RB released (and I am still waiting on my replacement guitar) but the forums aren't what they used to be. The more off topic threads that took a turn to Negative Town that are locked, the better, IMO. If you stick around until maybe the end of January and all the pissed off trolls looking for patches and new hardware are gone, you may catch a glimpse of how cool this community was back in the day. Not saying it is not cool now, but there is a lot of flaming/trolling/spamming that is happening right now. We never really had those problems before.

[tbradshaw]

A lot of his guidelines are stuff that HMX is looking for as well. That being said, the boards are a sort of evolving amorphous mess, and we reserve the right to make judgment calls on a case-by-case basis.

That's the truth. In the grand scheme of things, the Rock Band forums are super young, and there's no way to have a rock solid policy for handling things that we haven't seen yet. We're just doing our best. :)

[tbradshaw]

yeah tdbrashaw or whatever his name is is the WORST! HE LOCKS EVERYTHING!!!!! its really annoying, his moderator status should be revoked because every time i come on, somethong is locked and linked to him, and this will be locked too, even though this isn't flaming, some of the "mods" are killing our free speech, i think mods should be stuck to sean and john and thats it. actually apples is fair too, but thats it! how the hell did bradshaw become a mod anyways??? he is so bias and locks anything he doesnt agree with, so im saying it now before this is locked or deleted knowing the way he is, i hope the REAL mods read this and re consider their choices on who they make moderators.

I hope that my write up on my moderation process changes your mind... at least a little.

[Eastwood]

Besides, free speech is for public forums. While this is "public," it is actually owned by a company and if a company decides to censor you on their boards, it is their right to do so.

[espher]

Like the disinformation where you say John said things he didn't? Or the parts where you spread info about how the patch is done and what's going on? I appreciate that people want to talk about this, and as I already explained to you in pm we are working our butts off to get good information out there as soon as it is available. Until then, yes we will be locking threads that prevents good info from getting out there when it becomes available. That policy won't be changing any time soon.

Quoted for truth and giving a thumbs up.

At least people aren't throwing racial slurs around here when a thread is locked. -_-

[SoulScreme]

Besides, free speech is for public forums. While this is "public," it is actually owned by a company and if a company decides to censor you on their boards, it is their right to do so.

I agree, I'm just concerned when censorship goes beyond maintaining civility and enters the realm of the company trying to manipulate points of view.

[Eastwood]

I agree, I'm just concerned when censorship goes beyond maintaining civility and enters the realm of the company trying to manipulate points of view.

I'll have to admit that I thought the same thing at the beginning. But some of these posts I have read have been out right ridiculous in terms of speculation.

[HMXJohnlok]

Quoted for truth and giving a thumbs up.

At least people aren't throwing racial slurs around here when a thread is locked. -_-

Those people receive no-questions asked permanent bans, too :)

[espher]

Those people receive no-questions asked permanent bans, too :)

Let's just say I was up until 2 AM doing cleanup on another board last night, and unfortunately those bans won't be permanent. :(

You guys have it right. ;)

[DesiredFX]

There are locks and there are locks.

Some threads obviously have no value from the get-go, such as the guy who was claiming Harmonix knowingly sold defective instruments and admitted it in the forums and therefore we should all get together for a class-action fraud suit. Pointless, worthless, and generally just trying to get people riled up while HMX and EA do what they can to overcome the obstacles many users have confronted. Lock it before anyone replies. Hell, delete it, for all I care.

But other threads have been locked for straying somewhat from their original topic. In those cases, I feel it would have been better for the Moderator to ask that people rein it in, give his view on what the subject of the topic is and request that people please try to hew to it. If the thread remains active and people don't follow the Moderator's advice, then it should be locked.

It's not a big issue, by any means, but I've always felt (when I've been a Moderator on other sites) that the community should be allowed to grow in its own way, and the job of the Moderator is to prune away only those branches of growth that threaten the community's ability to grow.

Now, that may not be true for all online communities--this one was created specifically around one game and the experiences that go with it. They've done a good job of breaking the forums based on topics, both those that are directly related to the gaming experience and those that are closely-but-not-directly related. As a result, I understand thread-moving. People want to post their opinion or gripe in the high-traffic areas, but sometimes they don't relate to what the gist of that area is and would fit better in another area.

There are also areas for more general discussions that have nothing to do with the game at all, which is a good decision.

However, the moderators need to realize that the interests of any one individual in this form extend well beyond the categorization of the individual sub-forums, and that sometimes, thread A which belongs in Rock Band is going to inspire sub-thread B which may more properly belong in General, but which is clearly related to the thinking that was going on in thread A. Those are the ones I see getting closed that I think should be given the opportunity to get back on-track.

[Eastwood]

^ Apples asks people to get back on track before he locks.

[Apples]

^ Apples asks people to get back on track before he locks.

It would be ironic to have to lock a thread about thread locking. ;)

[DesiredFX]

^ Apples asks people to get back on track before he locks.

Well, then Apples shows great wisdom and depth of character.

:)

[SoulScreme]

Just a suggestion, but maybe you guys should post a policies/laws of the forum thread, that explains all of this stuff and is stickied somewhere. I notice a lack of a "rules" thread in the main active forum. There is the announcement from Sean, but what has been posted here is far more in-depth.