RB needs Keyboards..!!

[SirSurpent]

Yeah, I know, wait until Rock Band 2 comes out, but I can't even count the number of times I've thought that having a "miniature" keyboard set (much like the drum set we all have) would come into play on ALOT of different songs!

Here's hoping RB 2 builds us a keyboard for those of us that think "tickling the ivories" would be pretty darn cool..! :D

[ShadowOfEden]

While I LOVE metal bands with a keyboard, I think that 1. Not enough bands have one, so what do they do? Release a lot of songs from the same bands or have songs where the keyboard is not played? 2. I think it would be a little too easy. It would be like using only the fret buttons of the guit with two hands. 5 buttons for 10 fingers? Okay, they could move it to more buttons, but it has to still be playable, so you can't have 15 colors coming at the player.

[Blanko]

My opinion on this may be completely off, but here goes.

I'm not so sure a keyboard would be a good addition to the game. The thing with keyboards (or piano in general) is that it's a mix of melody and percussion-like rhythm. Drums translated perfectly into the game because drums (un)simply produce rhythm. The guitar hero games are successful and addictive because they effectively simplified guitar playing to "finger-drumming" (to the guitar-'rhythm'). By removing a music theory prerequisite, guitar playing becomes pretty easy (and fun - if you don't have or want to learn music theory). This is very much the same reason drummers (like myself) didn't need any musical theory to begin learning drums, playing in bands.

Piano, on the other hand, is essentially a giant guitarhero fret board. But unlike piano, the gh fretboard only has 5 'keys'. This works great for guitar because the players are actually picking up some of the mechanical skills required to play real guitar (fingering, shifting, strumming in time, etc). Drums even more so - simplifying drums to 4 pads and foot pedal isn't that far off from 'everything' you need to know in order to play real drums.

Sure, a piano could be simulated the same way the guitar is in rb and gh. But I'd argue that simulating a piano by simplifying the keys to 5 or even 10 (which isn't practical on screen anyway) would actually be doing more of a disservice to the playing. Because piano playing is already simplified to 'button' pushing. It gets complicated (and real) when you need to make all those buttons (notes) produce musical structure.

I think the player would feel somewhat disconnected from the musical experience if they were playing a simplified piano. The only way I see this being interesting/fun/challenging, is if there were as many buttons(notes) as there are on a mini-keyboard, for example.

Wow, what a rant. Procrastination 1 : David 0

[Harsher]

I only see this happening if they were to create 'Keyboard Hero' but you know that most likely will never happen... but most of these songs don't have any reason to use a keyboard and it's a rock game so what can you do.

[560sdl]

Or you could have the game port out to two monitors and have the option of having 5 or 6 or 7 instruments, or back up singers. For keyboards you could just have a wider rolling fretboard for 10 keys or integrate a pedal. But all that gets real elaborate!

[chance2002iu]

Or you could have the game port out to two monitors and have the option of having 5 or 6 or 7 instruments, or back up singers. For keyboards you could just have a wider rolling fretboard for 10 keys or integrate a pedal. But all that gets real elaborate!

then the competition will counter with a game called 'Pop star' that lets you use add in the DDR pads so that you can have dancers in your crew in addition to 6 instruments and 4 back up singers. booyah.

but for serious...RB doesn't need a keyboard, it needs more cowbell.

[dfjdejulio]

RB doesn't need a keyboard, it needs more cowbell.
I would pay $20 or maybe $30 for a USB cowbell that worked with RB.

Edit: a MIDI cowbell would be even better, of course.

[ibender]

RB keyboard expansion would totally rule

[Jazzyorange]

well there are a bunch of songs already in rock band with keyboard or organ solos that basically end up with everyone just chillin. Foreplay/Long time is a good example as well as Wont Get Fooled Again. I think it would be fun to play keyboard insted of bass because most songs on bass are boring and nobody ever wants to play it.

[polishdog90]

If they added a keyboard that means every single song would need keyboard in it. Im sorry, but that would kill so many songs that I would want to play. I say no to the keyboard.

[davidshek]

RB keyboard expansion would totally rule

Ok, seriously people, that's such a stupid idea I can't even come up with an appropriate word to describe it. I started my musical education at 5 years old with 10 years of classical piano lessons, so let me give you a little perspective here.

First of all, to even simulate playing a piano or keyboard, you'd have to have at least 2 octaves of keys on the controller. Right, 2 octaves, 1 for each hand. There's no way you could have any less than that and even come close to approximating the experience of playing a piano.

Here's a picture of 1 octave on a keyboard:

http://www.keylessonline.com/images/keyboard_western.jpg

You're talking about *24* keys here (12 per octave). Can you even try to imagine what the on-screen highway would look like with 24 frickin' notes on it?? Even if it were only 1 octave (12 notes), you're still talking about something that's 240% more notes than the current guitar and drum charts.

Even the smallest keytar made still has 1 full octave:

http://www.dorkingout.com/images/keytard.jpg

And the ones made popular in the 80's have 2.5 octaves:

http://x68.xanga.com/3328166063360115152719/z21631603.jpg

[Jazzyorange]

So guitars have 5 notes? awesome

[davidshek]

So guitars have 5 notes? awesome

I'm trying really hard not to call you a name here...

Most electric guitars have 21-23 frets, so 6*23 would be 138 notes. That means the 5-button guitar controllers for GH and RB have around 4% of the total notes on a real guitar.

To keep the same percentage on a keyboard controller, 4% of 88 is...3.5 notes. A 3- or 4-button keyboard controller? Yeah that sounds like blast...

Try reading my whole post before getting sarcastic about it.

[Jazzyorange]

oh no i got called a name over the internet...my pride. It doesnt have to follow the same principals as the guitar, it could be 10 notes 5 notes or whatever, things dont have to be exact since all in all, it is just a video game.

[Tarzanman]

Ignore davidshek. He is spouting stupid reasons for why keyboards wouldn't work in the game when there are other legitimate concerns.

In reality a keyboard would be an extremely simple controller to make for a game..... BUT

the main problem with adding a keyboard is how to display it on the screen with all the other crap that is up there. A legitimate keyboard controller would probably have 2 octaves meaning 23 keys and 12 tones.... (one octave for each hand)

I don't know about you, but outside of putting up a scrolling musical clef, there is no easy way to display such a large bar with so many possible notes along side the other scrolling pattern bars in rockband.

It would literally be twice the size of the scrolling guitar pattern bars.

[Hanover]

It's all been done...befoooorrrre!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboardmania

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/KBMCabinet.jpg

And it's head-to-head. I can totally see Howard Jones and Stevie Wonder going at it....oh, well, maybe not. :)

And yup...Two octaves. :)

[Alphadown99]

RB keyboard expansion would totally rule

Now wait, think about this for a second. I play the keyboard and guitar in real life. I'm pretty good at both, but much better at keyboards. Ten buttons is too much for a TV screen, and not enough to make the game challenging. That's just if you're going with 10 buttons (keys). Some people would say that its too hard, and some people would say too easy. No matter what, a keyboard peripheral would be too hard to do. That's the thing, the piano is an amazing instrument, but to make great music you can't use two hands without ever changing positions. Guitar they could pull off only having five buttons because you're strumming at the same time. Keyboards would just get monotonous and pointless. Besides, there just aren't enough songs that appeal to a lot of people with keyboards. The only songs that really have keyboard are classic rock songs, and lots of people are into emo, punk, heavy metal. Anyway, it would just too hard to make it cool.

[ibender]

I also play guitar and keyboards in real life. And I still think a keyboard expansion would be awesome.


OMG you could nevar make a keyboard game how would you do chords and simulate all the notes hurr durr.

Seriously, listen to yourself. You are on the freaking rock band message board. You are playing a guitar controller with 5 or 10 buttons. Extrapolate a little.

Besides, as someone already pointed out, keyboardmania already exists. It would just take a little creativity to integrate something like that into RB.

[batsu336]

Keyboards? No. I mean, damn! A miniature keyboard? You'd look like that blue elephant critter from Return of the Jedi. Akeyboard with only 5 notes? My 3 year old has one. It's made by L'il Tots. Maybe we could have a flute option as well so we could play Jethro Tull...

[batsu336]

Even the smallest keytar made still has 1 full octave:

http://www.dorkingout.com/images/keytard.jpg


This picture alone is reason enough to say no to keyboards.

[Mojo Risin]

I know it's probably never going to happen, but I would love a keyboard added to RB because I would love to rock out to some tunes by The Doors (I'm a huge fan). Sadly, without a keyboard, I don't see many, if any at all, Doors tunes making it into RB.:(

On a side note:

Funniest Post I've Read Today:

Keyboards? No. I mean, damn! A miniature keyboard? You'd look like that blue elephant critter from Return of the Jedi. Akeyboard with only 5 notes? My 3 year old has one. It's made by L'il Tots. Maybe we could have a flute option as well so we could play Jethro Tull...

Funniest Signature I've Read Today:

"It looks like I'll have to lean on someone because I can't afford both Rock Band and Guitar Hero III. Or, for that matter, a ticket to Suffragette City...F*ck"

[thebillyman]

For those of you that don't know, the original music game makers, Konami (makers of DDR, Guitar Freaks, Drum Mania), had made a Keyboard Mania.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mt4MWk_B2cY&feature=related

I've never had the fortune to play it myself or see one in real life here in the states, but it has been done, so it's not like Harmonix is thinking they can't do it.
I think they haven't done it mainly because of the demographic they are going after. That's why it is mostly rock. Which was a good choice because the US buyers ate it up.

Anyways, enjoy the vid.

[Ultrace]

Peripheral-wise, a keyboard could be possible. 4 notes for one hand and 4 for the other. 8 scrolling notes could be presented on the screen; they would be about half the width of the current drum notes.

The problem stemming from this is really twofold: music selection and charting.

Not every good rock song uses keyboard. As a matter of fact, there are a lot that don't. Adding a keyboard peripheral either means that you make every song include keyboard (potentially excluding hundreds or thousands of great songs), or make only some of the songs include keyboard. One option irritates music fans, the other irritates people who spent money on the peripheral and can only use it part of the time.

The second, lesser problem is charting. The guitar portions of GH and RB illustrate how hard it can be sometimes to adapt a song to a limited selection of buttons and the like. While it would be easier with 8 notes instead of 5 for the guitar, it's still no cakewalk, and there's no guarantee the results would work well.

There's also the matter of peripheral presentation (on a stand, which would cost more, or hanging by strap, which would be more difficult to play?)

There's a lot to work out before this could ever become a reality, and the song selection issue alone means it's not very likely to happen... As much as I'd like to jam to Jump, Come Sail Away or Stockholm Syndrome...

[Rokkstar]

I had this idea before, but there's only room for like 5 colors on the screen and you have 5 buttons and 10 fingers and not many songs that have keyboards and you get a small amount of usage.

[davidshek]

Ignore davidshek. He is spouting stupid reasons for why keyboards wouldn't work in the game when there are other legitimate concerns.

In reality a keyboard would be an extremely simple controller to make for a game..... BUT

the main problem with adding a keyboard is how to display it on the screen with all the other crap that is up there. A legitimate keyboard controller would probably have 2 octaves meaning 23 keys and 12 tones.... (one octave for each hand)

I don't know about you, but outside of putting up a scrolling musical clef, there is no easy way to display such a large bar with so many possible notes along side the other scrolling pattern bars in rockband.

It would literally be twice the size of the scrolling guitar pattern bars.

Uh, did you even READ my whole post? You must've missed the part where I already said exactly what you just said:

You're talking about *24* keys here (12 per octave). Can you even try to imagine what the on-screen highway would look like with 24 frickin' notes on it?? Even if it were only 1 octave (12 notes), you're still talking about something that's 240% more notes than the current guitar and drum charts.

I don't care about the controllers, obviously they'd be easy to make. I focused more on the number of notes on the controllers and note highways on the screen. Maybe if you'd read the whole thing instead of just looking at the pretty pictures, you might've seen that...

[erickOnasis412]

after seeing that video that thebillyman posted of "Keyboard Mania" - you realize how incredibly hard playing the keyboards in game would be because technically, it's actually playing the keyboard but a much smaller version.. its not a simplified version, it's actually two octaves of a piano.. and people that have no experience playing the piano/keyboards at all would probably have an incredibly difficult time playing it

[thunder44struck]

I've thought about this myself some. I believe it would be fun to have a keyboard on the next rock band. Maybe a little biased because i took piano lessons in my younger days..
I could probably handle doing a "miniature" keyboard on rock with 30+ keys.

And they would have to have songs that don't have any keyboard on them. Which is fine.

[ibender]

I started my musical education at 5 years old with 10 years of classical piano lessons

if harmonix had overthought guitar to the degree you are overthinking keyboards, guitar hero would be played with a roland GK-3 strapped to a real guitar.

http://www.roland.com/products/en/GK-3/index.html

[CowboyGP]

If they're going to do something like this, it should be as an expansion pack like GH Rocks the 80's. New disc, new peripheral, etc.

I'm very sceptical that they could come up with a peripheral and interface that would work without being either excessively boring or way too hard for a chopsticks-only (and don't even know that whole song) guy like me.

If it could be done, I think it would be great but I'm far more interested in seeing improvements made to the existing game than in keyboards.

Example: When VH played "Jump" in concert, Eddie played both guitar and keys. Can't do that on this game now, can we?

[Kreator]

i don't think it would work for rock band because of how much space it would take up on screen. check out Synthesia for pc (free game) if you want to play a keyboard game. http://www.synthesiagame.com/

[S1ashRev]

I'm trying really hard not to call you a name here...

Most electric guitars have 21-23 frets, so 6*23 would be 138 notes. That means the 5-button guitar controllers for GH and RB have around 4% of the total notes on a real guitar.

To keep the same percentage on a keyboard controller, 4% of 88 is...3.5 notes. A 3- or 4-button keyboard controller? Yeah that sounds like blast...

Try reading my whole post before getting sarcastic about it.

I just want to make one little correction. Guitars have 22 or 24 frets usually. I know your a drummer so you are not really expected to know that. Just like I don't know much about drums. About the only thing I know is snare and hi-hat. Anything else I left to the drummer.;)

By the way, I like you music. I am one of your bands friends on myspace now.

[davidshek]

I just want to make one little correction. Guitars have 22 or 24 frets usually. I know your a drummer so you are not really expected to know that. Just like I don't know much about drums. About the only thing I know is snare and hi-hat. Anything else I left to the drummer.;)

By the way, I like you music. I am one of your bands friends on myspace now.

Thanks, glad you like it! :D

And I am a drummer, but I do also have several years of guitar that I learned around the same time I started picking up drums.

I looked at my Dimebag-autographed Ibanez sitting in the corner and thought I counted 21 frets. I could've been wrong :)

[Tarzanman]

He probably sold the last fret for a dimebag

[xfMike]

Edit: nevermind this post. :(

[dshiznat]

bring back the keytar

[dastahl]

as much as keyboard sounds like a great idea - (think of all those coldplay etc songs) - I'd give up this dream for a second vocal mic and harmony line for backup singers.

[Lareden]

I second!

Make it an expansion with a bunch of new songs you can install into original RB. (don't go the GH route)

You could make a pretty simple keyboard, since there's only 8 notes in the musical scale (well, 13 if you include sharps/flats). I imagine it could be fit into the screen somehow. The visuals are pretty simple and large right now, they could be compacted a little to make space. It'd be nice to have it a little bigger than 8 notes though, maybe double it so you can fit both hands... or... make it a keytar. *shudder*

[CollegeDropouts]

Enough with this Keyboard stuff, go play Beatmania....

How about a FIDDLE!!

Honestly, Country Hero would RULE. You get a fiddle, an acoustic guitar, electric, double bass, a 2 piece drum kit with hi-hat and a crash, a harmonica, and a set of over-alls.

(Honestly dreams about Country Hero and has been for years! =****( )

youtube.com harmonica hero

[Credge]

I just want to make one little correction. Guitars have 22 or 24.

21-24 frets is the typical number of frets guitars have, with most Strats having 21 and most LP's having 22. 23 and 24 fret guitars are more commonly found on less popular guitars.

[Lareden]

Thanks, glad you like it! :D

And I am a drummer, but I do also have several years of guitar that I learned around the same time I started picking up drums.

I looked at my Dimebag-autographed Ibanez sitting in the corner and thought I counted 21 frets. I could've been wrong :)

A full-length fretboard has 24, but you'll often find shorter ones. Standard electric guitar frets range from 21 to 24. Acoustics can be pretty crazy especially non-cutaway. A standard classical guitar has 19 frets.

[Blanko]

... I haven't checked this post in a week.

This actually could have been a thoughtful, problem solving thread.

Too bad these forums are full of are tard's.


Procrastination 8 : David 5

[Smidget]

some more (old) discussion on it if you want it: :)

Thready link (http://community.rockband.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=25&highlight=keyboard&page=2)

[dfjdejulio]

I don't want a keyboard. Well, not exactly.

I want a USB MIDI adapter that I can plug my own keyboard into. Yeah, don't use the full range of inputs. Yeah, also sell a cheap, maybe one-octave MIDI keyboard for people who don't already have 'em. But please let me use the keyboard I've already got.

(Oh, and I've also got a design in my head for a sax controller... I should try to build a prototype. Might be able to do it by taking apart a Les Paul...)