C'mon, HMX--It's Time to Admit the Screw-Up

[DeusTrinitas]

Harmonix, it's time to do the right thing and admit that this entire launch has been one gigantic screw-up. Admit that you tried to cut too many corners and released crappy equipment. I know that I speak for others when I say that I would have gladly paid a higher price for a quality, flawlessly working set of equipment. Hey, I'm sorry this mess happened, too, but please, be a man and fess up.

At least admit something. The last time I checked, these were the forums for your game. Why, then, do we simply get some vaguely worded statement concerning only the guitars and that smacks of the wranglings of corporate lawyers?

You used to be awesome in my book, Harmonix: my favorite developer whom I knew could provide me with a quality entertainment experience every time. Believe me, I've been a fan even since the Frequency days. But every day you remain silent on the myriad issues surrounding the Rock Band hardware, my love for you decreases more and more.

I fear that by the time you do admit your mistake (if that ever even occurs), so little love will remain that you cannot be redeemed.

I don't know what else to say other than the fact that this hurts. :(

[Hanover]

Wow...I love people who come into these forums and demand a confession. Try church if you want that.

Harmonix admitted to defects in some of their guitars...what else do you want them to do? Come over, sob at your feet and beg for forgiveness?

Why dont YOU try a launch that involves software and three new electronic peripherals and see what happens?

[spyd4r]

You realize Harmonix developed the software and the hardware was most likely in the hands of EA, who more then likely went to the cheapest electronics company they could find to manufacture the equipment.

Atleast that's how I see it going down.. ;)

[DeusTrinitas]

Harmonix admitted to defects in some of their guitars...what else do you want them to do? Come over, sob at your feet and beg for forgiveness?



Well, let's see, friend. You just stated that Harmonix admitted to defects in guitars. Everyone and his grandma on here knows that some of the drums are defective as well. Where, pray tell, is the admission of that fact and an assurance that it is being taken care of?

Come over, sob at my feet, and beg for forgiveness? No thanks. Admit that many drum sets are faulty, explain that they are working to fix the drums, provide a time-table of when to expect drum sets to be shipped that are 100% functional? Yes, please.

[Harsher]

Dude, come on. Give them a little credit at least!

It's hard to create an epic game like this...

It's not like they're selling you cookies!!!

Everything breaks, learn to deal with that.

They, to my Knowlege are doing pretty much all they can to fix the problems people are having, I mean seriously... give them a break!

[AdamBomb629]

Harmonix, it's time to do the right thing and admit that this entire launch has been one gigantic screw-up. Admit that you tried to cut too many corners and released crappy equipment. I know that I speak for others when I say that I would have gladly paid a higher price for a quality, flawlessly working set of equipment. Hey, I'm sorry this mess happened, too, but please, be a man and fess up.

At least admit something. The last time I checked, these were the forums for your game. Why, then, do we simply get some vaguely worded statement concerning only the guitars and that smacks of the wranglings of corporate lawyers?

You used to be awesome in my book, Harmonix: my favorite developer whom I knew could provide me with a quality entertainment experience every time. Believe me, I've been a fan even since the Frequency days. But every day you remain silent on the myriad issues surrounding the Rock Band hardware, my love for you decreases more and more.

I fear that by the time you do admit your mistake (if that ever even occurs), so little love will remain that you cannot be redeemed.

I don't know what else to say other than the fact that this hurts. :(

Dude, they are replacing your faulty hardware for free. If you were a true fan, you would accept the remedies they are providing. You know what, you should probably return it to the store where you bought it.

[ShadowOfEden]

Delay and fans are furious.
Release when you're not fully ready and fans are furious.

This industry is very harsh... They wanted the game out before christmas, because a 170$ game wouldn't sell well after christmas. Hate threads would have been countless if they would have delayed the game, so obviously, they rushed, but they are at least fixing their issues.

[Hanover]

You mean apologize for life not being perfect? There is no such thing as 100% guarantee of defect free when you ship out a million units of anything. Ever get a burnt piece of cereal in your cereal box? ;)

My drums work fine...rolls and all.



Well, let's see, friend. You just stated that Harmonix admitted to defects in guitars. Everyone and his grandma on here knows that some of the drums are defective as well. Where, pray tell, is the admission of that fact and an assurance that it is being taken care of?

Come over, sob at my feet, and beg for forgiveness? No thanks. Admit that many drum sets are faulty, explain that they are working to fix the drums, provide a time-table of when to expect drum sets to be shipped that are 100% functional? Yes, please.

[logicalnoise]

Harmonix, it's time to do the right thing and admit that this entire launch has been one gigantic screw-up. Admit that you tried to cut too many corners and released crappy equipment. I know that I speak for others when I say that I would have gladly paid a higher price for a quality, flawlessly working set of equipment. Hey, I'm sorry this mess happened, too, but please, be a man and fess up.

they acknowledged the defects and the truth is it was EA's screw up not theres hence why you deal with EA not them. This also begs the question why your being upset here rather than EA's boards?


At least admit something. The last time I checked, these were the forums for your game. Why, then, do we simply get some vaguely worded statement concerning only the guitars and that smacks of the wranglings of corporate lawyers?

Because anything said by any member of the dev team can be used in court for stupid hardly binding legal accusations that ultimately get settled because it's just cheaper. They read everything and make statements when they can. Go ahead ask them just a simple question via PM like "how the hell could you stand working 60 hour work weeks for the past 4 monthes?"


You used to be awesome in my book, Harmonix: my favorite developer whom I knew could provide me with a quality entertainment experience every time. Believe me, I've been a fan even since the Frequency days. But every day you remain silent on the myriad issues surrounding the Rock Band hardware, my love for you decreases more and more.

no they've made statements on every issue except people crying about how teh gameplay is laid out. You assume a lot for a "hardcore" fan.


I fear that by the time you do admit your mistake (if that ever even occurs), so little love will remain that you cannot be redeemed.

The game has sold 1 mil units by now so please do go on and boycott like it will matter.


I don't know what else to say other than the fact that this hurts. :(

How about "I like accuse people of being stuck up jerks when they've actually been teh cool artists they've always been." EA is your main offender deal with them.

[560sdl]

Admitting guilt publically is not a legally savvy thing to do and you should not hold your breath. In my opinion they have done all the right things by coming up with better guitars and I am sure if the new drums are not better, they will follow. Working through problems to fix things and eventually make them right is pretty reasonable in my opinion. Expecting some sort of public admission of guilt or an apology is just not going to happen.

[DeusTrinitas]

no they've made statements on every issue except people crying about how teh gameplay is laid out. You assume a lot for a "hardcore" fan.



They've not made any official statements regarding the drum problems. Get your facts straight.

[SoulScreme]

I must agree with the OP. I personally think that the handling of the instruments is commendable, but it doesn't make for an awful release situation. Sure, making up for it now is nice. But the game SHOULD NOT have been launched like that. I think the OP is referring to an overall mentality by Harmonix to tell customers to "shut up and wait for an announcement." Stand alone PS3 bundle, PS3 Les Paul patch, basically gimped PSN support, inability to copy saves on the PS3, no community site. If we attempt to even discuss these things the threads are locked. Moreover, there is rarely information given to us about these things. Personally, I think they should be more forth coming. Why not tell us what happened with the path? Give us screenshots of the Work In Progress community site? Offer something to early adopters who have had to deal with crappy instruments? Offer something to PS3 users to make up for us paying the same but receiving a crappier version? I mean, there have been a handful of announcement and very little information in the ones that were made. I must agree that I have liked Harmonix for a long time, but the customer support just doesn't seem to be there. It feels as if the EA influence is creeping in.

[turnthree]

What company made the guitars for the GH series and what's different about the strum design?

I ask because I've had GHI, GHII, 80's (2 guitars PS2) and GHIII (XBOX) since release and have never had a problem with any of them.

My mic was faulty out of the box, guitar worked 6 hours and then it took over two weeks for me to get another faulty guitar.

If HMX is such a great company how did they not know EA was putting out p.o.s. instruments?

[whofan]

I must agree with the OP. I personally think that the handling of the instruments is commendable, but it doesn't make for an awful release situation. Sure, making up for it now is nice. But the game SHOULD NOT have been launched like that. I think the OP is referring to an overall mentality by Harmonix to tell customers to "shut up and wait for an announcement." Stand alone PS3 bundle, PS3 Les Paul patch, basically gimped PSN support, inability to copy saves on the PS3, no community site. If we attempt to even discuss these things the threads are locked. Moreover, there is rarely information given to us about these things. Personally, I think they should be more forth coming. Why not tell us what happened with the path? Give us screenshots of the Work In Progress community site? Offer something to early adopters who have had to deal with crappy instruments? Offer something to PS3 users to make up for us paying the same but receiving a crappier version? I mean, there have been a handful of announcement and very little information in the ones that were made. I must agree that I have liked Harmonix for a long time, but the customer support just doesn't seem to be there. It feels as if the EA influence is creeping in.

Sorry to rain on your personal crusade against Harmonix (as that's suddenly turned into all you do around here). But a massive launch like this is bound to have problems. Why does nobody understand that?

They don't say much because they CAN NOT say much. Releases to the public are tightly controlled by companies so as to prevent misinformation (the SAME reason many of the threads you post in are locked. I'm sorry you're having issues with the mods here, but it's true, every locked thread is locked for a valid reason) and bad press prior to the release of anything.

This is the only reason (and it's not EA's policy creeping in, it's just good corporate policies at work, corporate policies that have probably been at work since the inception of Harmonix) that we don't see "works in progress" or more than "vague and cryptic" responses from the mods. They CAN'T tell us ANYTHING that they're not authorized to.

Lighten up a bit on your personal vendetta and see things for the way they really are here.

[tbradshaw]

If we attempt to even discuss these things the threads are locked.

I think it's worth mentioning that these forums are not the only place to discuss Rock Band. I don't think it's too difficult to understand that false conjecture and misinformation is harmful on the Rock Band forums due to the official nature making the wrong impression on users.

Make no mistake, when a person visits the Harmonix Rock Band forums they are a guest at Harmonix's facility. Why would a person expect to have completely unfettered conversation about topics that aren't in the best interest of Harmonix or Rock Band? If I were to visit someone's front lawn, only to yell lies about their work at the top of my lungs or--even better--insults, I would expect to be asked to leave.

Harmonix has had a remarkably open policy about allowing insulting threads (like this one) take place on their personal forums. On most company forums (try something like this on the Apple forums), topics like this aren't closed... they are deleted and removed completely from the public record. What they have drawn the line on, however, is misinformation about their product. Especially the PS3 patch, which (if any of the rumors were to be true) have some delicate legal issues.

I've grown weary of the sense of entitlement that some gamers have.

[imagine]

SCREWUPS IN ORDER:

Defective Equipment
20 DAYS ON A DEFECTIVE RMA WAIT - only to find out EA"s SUPPORT SYSTEM HAD MINE STUCK IN QUEUE.
New Web Site Not Up On Launch Day - And Still Not Up This many Days After
No incarnation of BAND WORLD TOUR - online play is just for fun and I want to compete!

Not to play non-fanboi but seriously if I didn't have our new product site up on launch day. I would probably be fired. - No reason it shouldn't have been up and running withinga few days of launch.

[whofan]

What company made the guitars for the GH series and what's different about the strum design?

I ask because I've had GHI, GHII, 80's (2 guitars PS2) and GHIII (XBOX) since release and have never had a problem with any of them.

My mic was faulty out of the box, guitar worked 6 hours and then it took over two weeks for me to get another faulty guitar.

If HMX is such a great company how did they not know EA was putting out p.o.s. instruments?

Did you just turn three? Honestly, these are rather ridiculous questions.

1) Red Octane (which has CONSIDERABLY more experience with periphereals) put out the guitars for the entire GH series. (This isn't a ridiculous question)

2) The difference in the guitar design is not known to me, but there's bound to be quite a few differences because of the different companies involved

3)You got a bad mic and guitar, like a lot of people. These things happen, send them back and try again. If you get another bad one (as your post says) call up EA and complain that you recieved another bad guitar, I'm sure they'll offer you something for your inconvenience. In the meantime, since it seems you have a 360 play the guitar with the X-plorer and play the drums

4) HMX has no idea what EA is doing in regards to production. You assume way too much here. Harmonix officials are not pulling every single periphreal off the assembly line and testing it extensively before being shipped here.

[SoulScreme]

I think it's worth mentioning that these forums are not the only place to discuss Rock Band. I don't think it's too difficult to understand that false conjecture and misinformation is harmful on the Rock Band forums due to the official nature making the wrong impression on users.

Make no mistake, when a person visits the Harmonix Rock Band forums they are a guest at Harmonix's facility. Why would a person expect to have completely unfettered conversation about topics that aren't in the best interest of Harmonix or Rock Band? If I were to visit someone's front lawn, only to yell lies about their work at the top of my lungs or--even better--insults, I would expect to be asked to leave.

Harmonix has had a remarkably open policy about allowing insulting threads (like this one) take place on their personal forums. On most company forums (try something like this on the Apple forums), topics like this aren't closed... they are deleted and removed completely from the public record. What they have drawn the line on, however, is misinformation about their product. Especially the PS3 patch, which (if any of the rumors were to be true) have some delicate legal issues.

I've grown weary of the sense of entitlement that some gamers have.

I love how people throw this "sense of entitlement" phrase around. Customers ARE entitled to certain things. For instance, explanations as to why a product is not what it was supposed to be. Harmonix seemed to do a wonderful job of interacting with the community before the release. I think that is why their current "media blackout" is so disappointing. It's not that I expect this from every company, it's that I've come to expect it from Harmonix. I think the ire you see is a result of people feeling as if a company that had listened to them and responded to them has now turned a cold shoulder to their needs. I admit that this forum is more open than many others. I'm just concerned with the fact that, whatever the reason, threads that push an opinion you agree with (Speculation on Activision rumor) are left open, while other threads full of equal amounts of speculation are close.

[TigerVoss]

Thank you OP, and Soulscreme....
You two seem to be the only other non HMX fanboys that dont prefer to continually look for excuses for this completly poor consumer experience I have had with this game. I stated yesterday that I would be the first to post a full apology to HMX when I see some effort on their part (that includes EA, MTV, or Sony as they are all in bed with this) to alleviate the situations that we the consumers have had issues with for weeks now.
I will repeat myself so the countless fanboys who feel it is their job to defend poor professional practices that rival used car salesmen.....Be accountable HMX! Admit what you cannot do, wont do, or have no plans on doing in the near future. No matter how you try to alter peoples perception as to whos fault any of this is, its your product, and you should be held accountable. You wanted the rewards by releasing this game when you did, you chose to take the risks, now you disappear when things dont go your way? Real professional.
Makes me wonder...how many of the HMX staff are playing RB on the PS3 anyway....probably none of them, as with their families, friends, and whoever else they have privately fessed up to and said "Dont get the Sony version, we screwed it up"

[tbradshaw]

I love how people throw this "sense of entitlement" phrase around. Customers ARE entitled to certain things. For instance, explanations as to why a product is not what it was supposed to be. Harmonix seemed to do a wonderful job of interacting with the community before the release. I think that is why their current "media blackout" is so disappointing. It's not that I expect this from every company, it's that I've come to expect it from Harmonix. I think the ire you see is a result of people feeling as if a company that had listened to them and responded to them has now turned a cold shoulder to their needs. I admit that this forum is more open than many others. I'm just concerned with the fact that, whatever the reason, threads that push an opinion you agree with (Speculation on Activision rumor) are left open, while other threads full of equal amounts of speculation are close.

Geez.

No. Customers are not entitled to explanation of anything, because you didn't sign a contract with Harmonix (or any other game company you purchase games from) establishing that right.

Here's what you have. You have the right to return your product if you feel that it is not as advertised. That is absolutely it. In the case that you feel a product you have purchased constitutes legal fraud, you may demand compensation for the product.

All these other ancillary "rights" you're talking about are just the sense of entitlement gamers have gotten because our gaming companies are often filled with employees that resonate with gamers and want to share.

When you don't like a movie, do you have the right to have a personal statement issued by the director and producer as to why the movie wasn't what you wanted it to be? When you don't like some shaving cream, do you have the right to have the chemical engineer explain why it doesn't work the way you thought it should work? Of course not.

If you think that purchasing some game has some how granted you the right to an ongoing discussion with the developers, information about future patches, and skip-the-PR chats with the core team... please present the service contract that came with your copy of Rock Band. Because I want this VIP behind the scenes pass, too. Your copy must be a lot better than mine was.

[Alphadown99]

Harmonix, it's time to do the right thing and admit that this entire launch has been one gigantic screw-up. Admit that you tried to cut too many corners and released crappy equipment. I know that I speak for others when I say that I would have gladly paid a higher price for a quality, flawlessly working set of equipment. Hey, I'm sorry this mess happened, too, but please, be a man and fess up.

At least admit something. The last time I checked, these were the forums for your game. Why, then, do we simply get some vaguely worded statement concerning only the guitars and that smacks of the wranglings of corporate lawyers?

You used to be awesome in my book, Harmonix: my favorite developer whom I knew could provide me with a quality entertainment experience every time. Believe me, I've been a fan even since the Frequency days. But every day you remain silent on the myriad issues surrounding the Rock Band hardware, my love for you decreases more and more.

I fear that by the time you do admit your mistake (if that ever even occurs), so little love will remain that you cannot be redeemed.

I don't know what else to say other than the fact that this hurts. :(

MMMMkay. Now, check this out. What is the biggest next-gen system out there? The 360, as far as hardcore gamers are concerned. So, do any of you remember the 360's launch? Melting processors, bad power supplies, RRoDs?! Chill. It takes a while for a developer to fix the problems they have. It will be fixed, just relax for a while!

[turnthree]

Did you just turn three? Honestly, these are rather ridiculous questions.

1) Red Octane (which has CONSIDERABLY more experience with periphereals) put out the guitars for the entire GH series. (This isn't a ridiculous question)

2) The difference in the guitar design is not known to me, but there's bound to be quite a few differences because of the different companies involved

3)You got a bad mic and guitar, like a lot of people. These things happen, send them back and try again. If you get another bad one (as your post says) call up EA and complain that you recieved another bad guitar, I'm sure they'll offer you something for your inconvenience. In the meantime, since it seems you have a 360 play the guitar with the X-plorer and play the drums

4) HMX has no idea what EA is doing in regards to production. You assume way too much here. Harmonix officials are not pulling every single periphreal off the assembly line and testing it extensively before being shipped here.

Yes, I did just turn three.

Yeah, EA gave me something for my inconvenience. I got a nice new rma#, tracking# and they were even so kind as to put a $125 hold on my credit card......again. (not sure how I got a credit card I'm 3)

WHY doesn't HMX have an idea what EA is doing? Not knowing seems to be a poor way to release a product. Maybe HMX assumed way too much, like me.

[terRize]

If you all are so unhappy why not take the game back until the problems get fixed and then buy it again? Or don't buy it all if that's what you wanna do.

I for one received functional equipment, so not everyone got faulty gear. I'd like the guitar to work a slight bit better but I had issues with my GH2 guitar as well, so I'll deal with it.

I'm a developer at the company I work at, and I'm under no circumstances allowed to discuss any work I'm doing with anyone outside the company. That all has to go through a different department. At first I began answering customer support questions (because I knew the answers better then the customer support people) and I got in trouble. I'm not still not clear why it was a big deal, but to the company it was. So I'm not allowed to respond, I must forward any responses to a specific department and then they send it out from there. So there is at least one other company that doesn't have devs at the beckon call of upset customers.

[Varsps]

why don't HMX face up and admit they've caused global warming

[monstrado]

Wow...I love people who come into these forums and demand a confession. Try church if you want that.

Harmonix admitted to defects in some of their guitars...what else do you want them to do? Come over, sob at your feet and beg for forgiveness?

Why dont YOU try a launch that involves software and three new electronic peripherals and see what happens?

It's called customer service, anybody with their right mind knows that. When someone blows $169.99 a game I'm not JUST paying for a game, I'm also paying for Harmonix's customer support.

There is NO excuse for the silence given to the fans. I don't give a **** what you or any of the other little ****s say, you all have your head so far up Harmonix's ass that you have no idea what is really going on.

I myself believed everything would be okay after my equipment proved to be faulty, as does my 3 friends who also bought the game on launch. We were loyal customers, and we knew Harmonix would come out and apologize for the screw up.

It's called Responsibility. Learn to get some.

If one of my client's are not satisfied with our solution (IT) we don't just fix it, we let the customer know when it'll be fixed and we apologize for the inconvenience. They pass us a great deal of money to keep their network up and running and if we don't do that we loose our customer.

The same thing goes for Harmonix, we pay a good amount of money, we deserve some respect. It's just common courtesy.

[TigerVoss]

Geez.

No. Customers are not entitled to explanation of anything, because you didn't sign a contract with Harmonix (or any other game company you purchase games from) establishing that right.

Here's what you have. You have the right to return your product if you feel that it is not as advertised. That is absolutely it. In the case that you feel a product you have purchased constitutes legal fraud, you may demand compensation for the product.

All these other ancillary "rights" you're talking about are just the sense of entitlement gamers have gotten because our gaming companies are often filled with employees that resonate with gamers and want to share.

When you don't like a movie, do you have the right to have a personal statement issued by the director and producer as to why the movie wasn't what you wanted it to be? When you don't like some shaving cream, do you have the right to have the chemical engineer explain why it doesn't work the way you thought it should work? Of course not.

If you think that purchasing some game has some how granted you the right to an ongoing discussion with the developers, information about future patches, and skip-the-PR chats with the core team... please present the service contract that came with your copy of Rock Band. Because I want this VIP behind the scenes pass, too. Your copy must be a lot better than mine was.
Wow....after reading this it is no surprise why they hired the moderators they did to oversee the forums. We have the right to return the product for a refund? What about the people who bought into the false adverstising about the game being compatible with "most" (LOL) guitar controllers.
And no, your copy has to be better than ours, as Im sure they didnt let fellow employees fall into the Sony trap we are suffering through.
If I was in a movie, and after the first 10 minutes the screen or seat broke or found out that my eyeglasses were not compatible with that theater, damn right I would demand my money back. Unfortunately this sceanario does not allow me to practice comsumer rights by demanding my money back that I paid for a product that does not deliver what it is, or said, it would.
I understand the moderators loyalties as they shouldnt bite the hand that feeds them. Same reason why HMX cant blame EA or Sony for this poor product which they are taking the fall for.
So why continually post truths which seem to be insulting? In the hopes that the casual gamer, which this game has a primary focus on, does not get duped into investing a lot of money into a pile of non-refundable plastic and wires.
I tell you what, tbradshaw, you get your owners to refund full price for the game, bundle or not, and I will promptly follow you advice and get a refund!

[SoulScreme]

Geez.

No. Customers are not entitled to explanation of anything, because you didn't sign a contract with Harmonix (or any other game company you purchase games from) establishing that right.

Here's what you have. You have the right to return your product if you feel that it is not as advertised. That is absolutely it. In the case that you feel a product you have purchased constitutes legal fraud, you may demand compensation for the product.

All these other ancillary "rights" you're talking about are just the sense of entitlement gamers have gotten because our gaming companies are often filled with employees that resonate with gamers and want to share.

When you don't like a movie, do you have the right to have a personal statement issued by the director and producer as to why the movie wasn't what you wanted it to be? When you don't like some shaving cream, do you have the right to have the chemical engineer explain why it doesn't work the way you thought it should work? Of course not.

If you think that purchasing some game has some how granted you the right to an ongoing discussion with the developers, information about future patches, and skip-the-PR chats with the core team... please present the service contract that came with your copy of Rock Band. Because I want this VIP behind the scenes pass, too. Your copy must be a lot better than mine was.

That is untrue. The product is considered opened software and the issues are issues one would not know of without opening it and playing it. Thus, returns will not be accepted by retailers. Are you saying that Harmonix/EA will refund the money of players who bought the stand alone version? That would be a huge announcement?

I am not talking about a legal obligation, I am talking about good business practices. I am talking about doing right by the customer. A customer has a right to a satisfactory product, however, some people feel they have not received that. Now, I'm sure you're a moderator because you are a big fan of Harmonix. I once was, anymore they continue to annoy me. You need to start to see past your love of Harmonix and envision yourself as one of the rest of us. We like Harmonix well enough and we're enjoying the game. However, we have no allegiance to EA/Harmonix, nor do we have allegiance to RO/Activision. We simply purchased a product that was supposed to work a certain way. While it does 90% of that, there is this missing 10%. We feel slighted. No, with any other product I could call a company and receive some sort of response. Here is a list of games and companies who DO interact with their customers on a regular basis, and have laid the ground work for why I expect this.

Blizzard - World of Warcrat
Incognito - Warhawk
Ubisoft - Assassin's Creed
Bungie - Halo 3
Valve - Counterstrike
iD - Quake series
Epic - Unreal series

So yeah, there are a lot of other companies who discuss patches, release dates, concerns, features with their communities. This list is a small example.

[terRize]

HMX cant blame EA or Sony for this poor product which they are taking the fall for.
So why continually post truths which seem to be insulting? In the hopes that the casual gamer, which this game has a primary focus on, does not get duped into investing a lot of money into a pile of non-refundable plastic and wires.
I tell you what, tbradshaw, you get your owners to refund full price for the game, bundle or not, and I will promptly follow you advice and get a refund!

Why do you believe this game is non-refundable? I haven't tried as I have a perfectly working copy but I've had it done with other games. Guitar Hero 3 is a perfect example.

My little brother wanted Guitar Hero 3 for the Wii. He got it on launch day and as it turned out it has the mono bug and he had a less then desirable guitar (the buttons stuck). After playing Rock Band he wanted that more, so he returned his GH3 to Circuit City for a full refund instead of an exchange or store credit.

[SoulScreme]

Why do you believe this game is non-refundable? I haven't tried as I have a perfectly working copy but I've had it done with other games. Guitar Hero 3 is a perfect example.

My little brother wanted Guitar Hero 3 for the Wii. He got it on launch day and as it turned out it has the mono bug and he had a less then desirable guitar (the buttons stuck). After playing Rock Band he wanted that more, so he returned his GH3 to Circuit City for a full refund instead of an exchange or store credit.

This can happen if you deal with a stupid employee. However, all of these stores have an official policy saying that opened software can only be exchanged for the same thing, not returned for a refund.

[Apples]

* There's a swanky new community site coming.

* There's awesome DLC tracks in the pipeline.

* Broken hardware is being taken care.

* The most pressing of in-game issues can be software patched if deemed necessary.



Based on the above criteria, there is reason to be optimistic going forward. Sure, we would all like to see some of these addressed more quickly, but that is the nature of a project of this massive scale.

Anyway, I would simply urge a tad more restraint and patience. I am seeing too often here unrealistic griping that assumes people can whip up overnight hotfixes and gold-plated hardware. Some of these rants come across as spoiled-brat style temper tantrums.

And the interaction I see here by official reps on this board is lightyears ahead of most other gaming sites.... who don't even devote personnel to managing the community.


Side note:

Does anyone else remember the Xplorer when it was launched? There were multiple revisions and defects in those as well... so much for the "hardware gurus" in Red Octane. I went through 3 of them. How about the fiasco with the detachable neck in the Les Paul? I don't recall free shipping and returns for either of those guitars.

[monstrado]

That is untrue. The product is considered opened software and the issues are issues one would not know of without opening it and playing it. Thus, returns will not be accepted by retailers. Are you saying that Harmonix/EA will refund the money of players who bought the stand alone version? That would be a huge announcement?

I am not talking about a legal obligation, I am talking about good business practices. I am talking about doing right by the customer. A customer has a right to a satisfactory product, however, some people feel they have not received that. Now, I'm sure you're a moderator because you are a big fan of Harmonix. I once was, anymore they continue to annoy me. You need to start to see past your love of Harmonix and envision yourself as one of the rest of us. We like Harmonix well enough and we're enjoying the game. However, we have no allegiance to EA/Harmonix, nor do we have allegiance to RO/Activision. We simply purchased a product that was supposed to work a certain way. While it does 90% of that, there is this missing 10%. We feel slighted. No, with any other product I could call a company and receive some sort of response. Here is a list of games and companies who DO interact with their customers on a regular basis, and have laid the ground work for why I expect this.

Blizzard - World of Warcrat
Incognito - Warhawk
Ubisoft - Assassin's Creed
Bungie - Halo 3
Valve - Counterstrike
iD - Quake series
Epic - Unreal series

So yeah, there are a lot of other companies who discuss patches, release dates, concerns, features with their communities. This list is a small example.

World of Warcraft customer support has gone to ****, back in the day it was very good! still even though it's ****, its 1000x better then Harmonix.

[tbradshaw]

Wow....after reading this it is no surprise why they hired the moderators they did to oversee the forums.

I tell you what, tbradshaw, you get your owners to refund full price for the game, bundle or not, and I will promptly follow you advice and get a refund!

I'm not an employee.

However, but I did study economics and spend a significant portion of my studies on political economic philosophy... so throwing around the word "right" is a tender spot for me. We have a right to life, liberty, and property, we do not have a right to customer service.

I don't think that the refund is available either, because there has been no false advertising! If that were the case, the proper course of action would be to call the distributor to demand a refund and then consult a lawyer to join (or start) a class action suit.

That hasn't been the case here.

[SoulScreme]

World of Warcraft customer support has gone to ****, back in the day it was very good! still even though it's ****, its 1000x better then Harmonix.

Oh, had no clue. I played it years ago and remember them interacting with the community a lot.

[Bakkster]

SCREWUPS IN ORDER:

Defective Equipment
20 DAYS ON A DEFECTIVE RMA WAIT - only to find out EA"s SUPPORT SYSTEM HAD MINE STUCK IN QUEUE.
New Web Site Not Up On Launch Day - And Still Not Up This many Days After
No incarnation of BAND WORLD TOUR - online play is just for fun and I want to compete!

EA admitted the issue and is providing free games to those affected. If that's not good enough for you, ask EA, since they are the ones handling returns.
They also admitted there were delays with the website (which was also outsourced) and preferred to get us a working website late, rather than an unworking website on the 20th.
They also talked with several news sites about online BWT before release. This is probably the closest you can get to blaming HMX.


Wow....after reading this it is no surprise why they hired the moderators they did to oversee the forums. We have the right to return the product for a refund? What about the people who bought into the false adverstising about the game being compatible with "most" (LOL) guitar controllers.
And no, your copy has to be better than ours, as Im sure they didnt let fellow employees fall into the Sony trap we are suffering through.

As far as 3rd party compatability:
1) 2/3 guitars work (Xplorer, 360 Les Paul). I'd call that most.
2) They can't guarantee what other companies will do. I could tape two pieces of plastic together, call it a guitar controller, but that doesn't mean HMX guaranteed it would work.

Also, aside from Sean and John, the mods aren't employees.

[Magnet]

Did RedOctane or Activision ever put out a press release apologizing for all the Les Pauls with frequently malfunctioning fret buttons due to the detachable neck design? I didn't see one. And it wouldn't be good for their business interests to point all of these problems out. When a company is selling a product, the last thing they want is for consumers to get information (especially directly from the company itself) about some defective equipment problems that could deter purchases. Harmonix is now a high profile developer with a PR team that reflects that. As much as they like to interact with consumers on these message boards and be helpful, they can not afford to go above and beyond speaking out against their own product like everyone wants them to do. Sure, they might gain some more respect from fans for a move like that, but for the rest of the consumers to hear about hardware issues from a manufacturer...that's how a business ends up failing.

They recognized that people were upset about PS3 guitar incompatibility and the signicant number of cases of guitar strumming problems. They addressed these issues and have done their best to sort them out so far. But to put out a statement going item by item about everything that's gone wrong with portions of their peripherals is a pretty ridiculous expectation for any company. Especially when most of the peripherals are functioning properly (yet we seldom hear of these cases, because these are all of the people just enjoying the game - not angrily complaining on a website that faulty equipment is causing you to fall out of love with a company).

They've done everything theoretically right so far for handling people with peripheral problems via warranty policy. The issues about not being able to actually process the warranty correctly for some costumers can be addressed to EA. From HMX, the major issue of the guitar problems has been publically addressed. If you're not hearing about drum problems from Harmonix, then the percentage of faulty drum sets is probably not high enough to warrant a press release. They can assume that people will be intelligent enough to use the warranty if they end up unlucky. "Admitting" that a small portion of the equipment is faulty is irrelevant as this should be expected by consumers. I've never heard of equipment without a production failure rate.

[SoulScreme]

2/3 guitars work (Xplorer, 360 Les Paul). I'd call that most.


That's fine to put that on the 360 box. Putting it on the PS3 copies? Hmm... yeah... no.

[terRize]

This can happen if you deal with a stupid employee. However, all of these stores have an official policy saying that opened software can only be exchanged for the same thing, not returned for a refund.

If you can consider the store manager a stupid employee then I guess you're right. The regular employees did not want to give a full refund. Upon insisting for the store manager and making our case we were given the money back.

Our case basically was: This game did not live up to what it was advertised and we want our money back. If it had done as advertised we would have kept it, or accepted the exchange/store refund. If a game does not live up to how it was advertised you can get your money back.

Have you tried this and made a big stink about it? Having worked in retail when I was younger and trying the tactic myself I find that throwing a fit and getting the manager involved usually does the trick. Not saying I like that tactic, but you're right they do usually try to throw that policy out there but they will back off of it in certain circumstances.

I always found the policy odd, as I figure they just RMA the game as defective and don't lose a dime. They just want to keep your money in their store which I hate. I find threatening with never shopping there again does work, oddly enough.

I'm not trying to be callous by the way. I don't mind the people complaining usually, as I'll just ignore it. This morning I felt like saying something for some reason :)

[SoulScreme]

Did RedOctane or Activision ever put out a press release apologizing for all the Les Pauls with frequently malfunctioning fret buttons due to the detachable neck design? I didn't see one. And it wouldn't be good for their business interests to point all of these problems out. When a company is selling a product, the last thing they want is for consumers to get information (especially directly from the company itself) about some defective equipment problems that could deter purchases. Harmonix is now a high profile developer with a PR team that reflects that. As much as they like to interact with consumers on these message boards and be helpful, they can not afford to go above and beyond speaking out against their own product like everyone wants them to do. Sure, they might gain some more respect from fans for a move like that, but for the rest of the consumers to hear about hardware issues from a manufacturer...that's how a business ends up failing.

They recognized that people were upset about PS3 guitar incompatibility and the signicant number of cases of guitar strumming problems. They addressed these issues and have done their best to sort them out so far. But to put out a statement going item by item about everything that's gone wrong with portions of their peripherals is a pretty ridiculous expectation for any company. Especially when most of the peripherals are functioning properly (yet we seldom hear of these cases, because these are all of the people just enjoying the game - not angrily complaining on a website that faulty equipment is causing you to fall out of love with a company).

They've done everything theoretically right so far for handling people with peripheral problems via warranty policy. The issues about not being able to actually process the warranty correctly for some costumers can be addressed to EA. From HMX, the major issue of the guitar problems has been publically addressed. If you're not hearing about drum problems from Harmonix, then the percentage of faulty drum sets is probably not high enough to warrant a press release. They can assume that people will be intelligent enough to use the warranty if they end up unlucky. "Admitting" that a small portion of the equipment is faulty is irrelevant as this should be expected by consumers. I've never heard of equipment without a production failure rate.

I'm not sure, but if they didn't it's most likely because Activision is a HORRIBLE COMPANY. So, sure, let's only hold Harmonix to that standard of crap.

[SoulScreme]

If you can consider the store manager a stupid employee then I guess you're right. The regular employees did not want to give a full refund. Upon insisting for the store manager and making our case we were given the money back.

Our case basically was: This game did not live up to what it was advertised and we want our money back. If it had done as advertised we would have kept it, or accepted the exchange/store refund. If a game does not live up to how it was advertised you can get your money back.

Have you tried this and made a big stink about it? Having worked in retail when I was younger and trying the tactic myself I find that throwing a fit and getting the manager involved usually does the trick. Not saying I like that tactic, but you're right they do usually try to throw that policy out there but they will back off of it in certain circumstances.

I always found the policy odd, as I figure they just RMA the game as defective and don't lose a dime. They just want to keep your money in their store which I hate. I find threatening with never shopping there again does work, oddly enough.

I'm not trying to be callous by the way. I don't mind the people complaining usually, as I'll just ignore it. This morning I felt like saying something for some reason :)

I also worked in retail as a teenager and can't do that to people unless it really is a huge deal. And no, I have not, I don't want a refund. I love this game. I just wish they were more communicative about when the last few bits might be in place.

[smmcfly1]

Geez.

No. Customers are not entitled to explanation of anything, because you didn't sign a contract with Harmonix (or any other game company you purchase games from) establishing that right.

Here's what you have. You have the right to return your product if you feel that it is not as advertised. That is absolutely it. In the case that you feel a product you have purchased constitutes legal fraud, you may demand compensation for the product.

All these other ancillary "rights" you're talking about are just the sense of entitlement gamers have gotten because our gaming companies are often filled with employees that resonate with gamers and want to share.

When you don't like a movie, do you have the right to have a personal statement issued by the director and producer as to why the movie wasn't what you wanted it to be? When you don't like some shaving cream, do you have the right to have the chemical engineer explain why it doesn't work the way you thought it should work? Of course not.

If you think that purchasing some game has some how granted you the right to an ongoing discussion with the developers, information about future patches, and skip-the-PR chats with the core team... please present the service contract that came with your copy of Rock Band. Because I want this VIP behind the scenes pass, too. Your copy must be a lot better than mine was.


So what your saying is paying customers have to accept the fact they have broken equiptment that they payed for with no explanation as to why they are broken. Basically too bad for you customer.... oh well is your attitude..... and your a MOD...... give me a break!!!

When I go to a movie I expect to watch the whole movie with out the film breaking ( good or bad )

When I buy a video game I expect to play the game with out it breaking ( good or bad )

Can you see the difference........... I'll explain it to you if I have too

By the way the last two post that I have seen of yours have been totally rude to the posters....... I really don't think YOU should be a MODERATOR ! IMO

IMO a moderator should be considerate of the forum users not a fanboy of the company or game!!!

Oh and by the way my instruments all work fine..... I just agree that these disgruntaled customers deserve a proper answer from the proper source

[DeusTrinitas]

Harmonix has had a remarkably open policy about allowing insulting threads (like this one) take place on their personal forums.

This thread is not insulting. It is frank and honest. I respect Harmonix; in fact, I respect them so much that I know they could have and should have done better with the launch of this game.

[terRize]

I also worked in retail as a teenager and can't do that to people unless it really is a huge deal. And no, I have not, I don't want a refund. I love this game. I just wish they were more communicative about when the last few bits might be in place.

Yeah, it really sucks to do it and sometimes I feel bad but I'll be damned if I'm gonna let a store hold my money hostage on a video game. I haven't returned a game in a long time outside of the GH3 so I guess maybe policy has changed for the typical incident? Which is odd, I've returned faulty hardware and gotten my money back (like being stupid and not wanting to wait so I bought a hard drive at best buy and it was complete crap so I returned it for full refund after using it for a few days).

I can see not being able to return a game cause you think it stinks. It's another to be able to return it because it doesn't work right or to your satisfaction. Which in this case, no matter how much HMX or EA or whomever wants to deny it, is the case.

However, if it is not refundable then please by all means ***** away as I'd be doing the same if I couldn't get my money back. No way would I give HMX a free pass on this either, so forgive my earlier posts and let them have it ;)

[Bakkster]

That's fine to put that on the 360 box. Putting it on the PS3 copies? Hmm... yeah... no.

I still don't see how, since there's exactly one 3rd-party guitar for the PS3, that if it doesn't work out of the box it is somehow HMX's fault. Obviously, for something to work with Rock Band, it needs to do one of two things:
Be based off of the same control and signal setup as the Strat.
Inform HMX of their control scheme and ask them to implement it as well.

Obviously, #1 is not the case, since the Strat wasn't around yet. Number 2 may have been the case, but it might have been too late to put on the retail disk.

What it all boils down to is that HMX can only do so much when it comes to 3rd-parties. If they make a guitar that doesn't work with Rock Band, how is it HMX's fault? They never promised it would work with any specific guitars, so any slight you feel is imagined.

[tbradshaw]

That is untrue. The product is considered opened software and the issues are issues one would not know of without opening it and playing it. Thus, returns will not be accepted by retailers. Are you saying that Harmonix/EA will refund the money of players who bought the stand alone version? That would be a huge announcement?

If you have a case for false advertising, then you can most assuredly get a full refund. Of course, there isn't one, because there has been no false advertising. Just misinformation spread by random forum goers and game websites that aren't thorough enough.


I am not talking about a legal obligation, I am talking about good business practices. I am talking about doing right by the customer.

Then don't use the word "right". "Right" states a moral entitlement. Sure, you can ask for good customer service. You can even claim that you deserve good customer service. (I think the customer service has been great. I have realistic expectations.) But when you start rambling on about a customer right, then you can expect at least someone to call you on it.


Now, I'm sure you're a moderator because you are a big fan of Harmonix. I once was, anymore they continue to annoy me.

If they continue to annoy you... you could just go away? If a company annoyed me, I would have better things to do with my time than complain about them.


You need to start to see past your love of Harmonix and envision yourself as one of the rest of us.

Ugh. I don't love Harmonix. I love my girlfriend. I love my Mom. I think Harmonix makes the most fun entertainment on the planet. I don't have an irrational attachment to Harmonix. I've sent two guitars off to EA just like the rest of us. One of them came back and is the crappy tweezer-like microswitches... again, the other one game back with the induction loops. In a few days, I'll do doubt be doing another RMA on one of the replacements.

I'm just like the rest of us. Only I don't behave like a spoiled brat on game forums, ever. Moderator or not. I don't post just to insult the organization paying for the forums and I don't post just to complain about those things that in my opinion are different than I would like.


We like Harmonix well enough and we're enjoying the game. However, we have no allegiance to EA/Harmonix, nor do we have allegiance to RO/Activision. We simply purchased a product that was supposed to work a certain way. While it does 90% of that, there is this missing 10%. We feel slighted.

Please, oh please, oh please. Provide a single declared feature at launch that's not in the game, that isn't being handled by warranty replacements. The game does 90% of what it said it would do. The unreliable controllers are the 10% that are failing, and they are replacing them. Nothing else mentioned in these posts are things that the game claimed to do!

Of course you have no allegiance to any of the companies involved. I'm not getting paid by any of them either. But you are a guest on the Harmonix forums. Often, our forum posters don't behave like guests. Instead, they talk about their "rights" to complain or insult on someone else's dime. (Freedom of expression does not include the right to spend someone else's money to do so. These are remarkably open forums.)


No, with any other product I could call a company and receive some sort of response. Here is a list of games and companies who DO interact with their customers on a regular basis, and have laid the ground work for why I expect this.

Incognito - Warhawk
Ubisoft - Assassin's Creed
Bungie - Halo 3
Valve - Counterstrike
iD - Quake series
Epic - Unreal series

So yeah, there are a lot of other companies who discuss patches, release dates, concerns, features with their communities. This list is a small example.

That's great that you expect this kind of behavior, but that doesn't mean that you have a right to it. I removed World of Warcraft, because with a monthly fee and service contract they have a little bit higher level of responsibility.

I smiled when you mentioned, id Software, the ones that started it all with in-depth community relations. Unlike this position, where I'm just helping out pro bono because it looked like the forums needed it, I do work for id Software via the QuakeCon Organization each summer. In my time working with QuakeCon, as the Content Manager for PlanetQuake, and as a (poor) mod developer, I've had the opportunity to interact with id for years.

It's very important to note that the legal situation surrounding id and by extension the other companies you listed is very, very different from the situation that Harmonix operates in. All of the companies you listed own the entirety of the IP and technology referenced in their games. They can be more open about their behaviors because they aren't governed by legal requirements and parameters for core portions of their work. If you're expecting the same level of openness from a company who's games require a legal balancing act of 8 or more mega corporations that you expect from companies that (until recently) had like 30 employees in a completely self sufficient, independently wealthy company, then your expectations are out of wack.

[tbradshaw]

So what your saying is paying customers have to accept the fact they have broken equiptment that they payed for with no explanation as to why they are broken.

No, this is false. The faulty instruments have been acknowledge and a public press release was given explaining that there were a batch of faulty instruments. They are also being replaced. I did not say that the broken instruments were just "too bad". They are being replaced a public statement was made regarding the problem.

Please don't contort my statements.

[Varsps]

this is so dull, can't you all agree to disagree or something

[tombrady]

It's not HMX, it's ****ing EA...what do you expect?

We're talking about the company that ruined James Bond, Football, and a whole myriad of other genres because of their greed...why is it a surprise that they may be to blame?

As soon as I saw EA was involved with this game I cringed and prayed for the best...so far I've been lucky other than a few lousy drum pads which I've replaced.

I'm more worried about them releasing a RB2 with a 5 pad drumkit for ONLY 100 DOLLARS!11 and then immediately shutting down the RB1 master servers like they do with all their other titles after they release a rehash.

Bottom line: You bought an EA published game...don't expect anyone to go out of their way to help you when there's money to be made elsewhere.

[Bakkster]

Bottom line: You bought an EA published game...don't expect anyone to go out of their way to help you when there's money to be made elsewhere.

EA is not the publisher. MTV Games is the publisher. EA is the distributer, hence why they are handling RMA.

This also means EA is not involved with any in-game decisions, nor are they involved with the Rock Central servers.

[tombrady]

Does it even ****ing matter what they do?

They are associated with it, so they are going to **** it up in some way, that is all they know how to do.

Distributer or publisher, it makes no ****ing difference...they are the ones handling customer support, they are the ones who are ****ing up the peripherals, they have their stupid ****ing name all over it...


And yeah, I'm very ****ing bitter about EA.

They lost in sales to a superior NFL game that cost 20 dollars to their 60 and their response was to buy the exclusive rights to make NFL licensed games. If EA isn't a ****ing monopoly, I don't know what is. I'm sure glad I have to pay 60 bucks a year for Madden 04 with better graphics if I want to play NFL games...and I can't play their other rehashes online because they like to shut their servers down.

[Maggot_Brain]

How do we know WHO is responsible for the crappy hardware?

As far as I know nobody's had the BALLS to come forward and admit it.

And: Who decided what factories in China were going to make them and for how much? Was it EA? Harmonix? MTV?

And: Are you going to extend the totally inadequate 60 day return policy?

[TigerVoss]

* There's a swanky new community site coming.

* There's awesome DLC tracks in the pipeline.

* Broken hardware is being taken care.

* The most pressing of in-game issues can be software patched if deemed necessary.



Based on the above criteria, there is reason to be optimistic going forward. Sure, we would all like to see some of these addressed more quickly, but that is the nature of a project of this massive scale.

Anyway, I would simply urge a tad more restraint and patience. I am seeing too often here unrealistic griping that assumes people can whip up overnight hotfixes and gold-plated hardware. Some of these rants come across as spoiled-brat style temper tantrums.

And the interaction I see here by official reps on this board is lightyears ahead of most other gaming sites.... who don't even devote personnel to managing the community.


Side note:

Does anyone else remember the Xplorer when it was launched? There were multiple revisions and defects in those as well... so much for the "hardware gurus" in Red Octane. I went through 3 of them. How about the fiasco with the detachable neck in the Les Paul? I don't recall free shipping and returns for either of those guitars.
^^^^ Apples:
Your response was the best I have seen from a Moderator on this site. It was to the point, dry of personal crusades, and informative. I will now follow your advice, and take things in stride. Thank you for your time as moderator, I was starting to think that all of you were worthless, and only moderated so that someone would listen to your fanboy rants.
Keep it up Apples

P.S. I still will not apologise to HMX, they are still on the hook.

[tbradshaw]

Does it even ****ing matter what they do?

They are associated with it, so they are going to **** it up in some way, that is all they know how to do.

Distributer or publisher, it makes no ****ing difference...they are the ones handling customer support, they are the ones who are ****ing up the peripherals, they have their stupid ****ing name all over it...

Wow! That's a lot of asterisks in one post! Try to tone it down a bit, please.

[Bakkster]

Does it even ****ing matter what they do?

They are associated with it, so they are going to **** it up in some way, that is all they know how to do.

Distributer or publisher, it makes no ****ing difference...they are the ones handling customer support, they are the ones who are ****ing this up the peripherals, they have their stupid ****ing name all over it...

Yes, it does matter what they do.
They don't touch the servers, so there is no need to worry.
They don't make gameplay decisions, so there is no need to worry.
They don't make the hardware designs, so there is no need to worry.

The only thing they can affect is distribution and returns.

I'm not a big fan of EA either, but it's only fair to recognize that they can only foul up (or succeed at) where they are involved. So it is EAs fault that RMAs got screwed (including mine), but anything having to do with servers or the game itself are solely HMX's responsibility.

[Maggot_Brain]

Wow! That's a lot of asterisks in one post! Try to tone it down a bit, please.

C'mon, man! You ain't gonna ban someone for asterisks, are ya? That would set a whole new mod precedent. I mean, he used to them instead of what he was thinking. :D

[tbradshaw]

C'mon, man! You ain't gonna ban someone for asterisks, are ya? That would set a whole new mod precedent. I mean, he used to them instead of what he was thinking. :D

Ha! No, I'm not going to ban anyone. If it was worth a ban, it would have been deleted. :)

[tombrady]

Yes, it does matter what they do.
They don't touch the servers, so there is no need to worry.
They don't make gameplay decisions, so there is no need to worry.
They don't make the hardware designs, so there is no need to worry.

The only thing they can affect is distribution and returns.

I'm not a big fan of EA either, but it's only fair to recognize that they can only foul up (or succeed at) where they are involved. So it is EAs fault that RMAs got screwed (including mine), but anything having to do with servers or the game itself are solely HMX's responsibility.
Well I really do hope you're correct...I really really do hope EA's name is only on this game for them to get their cut and piss off.

Yeah, I will tone it down...I am just extremely bitter about these guys and I am very quick to assume it is them who is responsible for any problems with their games (95% of the time, it is).

Anyone else who was a big fan of the Sega 2k sports NFL series probably feels the same way as I do :)

[JohnDubbyaRocks]

Holy crap man you have to be kidding me. There is nothing wrong with my equipment perhaps it is the user. Harmonix made a great game and for you to demand a "confession" means you have tooo much time on your hands. Get a life things happen. Honestly have you ever played a game such as this. As far as I know nothing like this has been done before

Get over it
get over yourself
get a life

[Bakkster]

Well I really do hope you're correct...I really really do hope EA's name is only on this game for them to get their cut and piss off.

Yeah, I will tone it down...I am just extremely bitter about these guys and I am very quick to assume it is them who is responsible for any problems with their games (95% of the time, it is).

Anyone else who was a big fan of the Sega 2k sports NFL series probably feels the same way as I do :)

Yeah, I'm just trying to make sure that everyone stays rational and keeps talking about factually correct stuff.

I hope people continue to voice their concerns (since they have a right to), but I'll correct anything that I find factually incorrect or an irrational complaint.

Edit:

Holy crap man you have to be kidding me. There is nothing wrong with my equipment perhaps it is the user. Harmonix made a great game and for you to demand a "confession" means you have tooo much time on your hands. Get a life things happen. Honestly have you ever played a game such as this. As far as I know nothing like this has been done before

Actually, myself and several mods have had failed guitars. HMX also admitted there was a production issue with the Rev1 guitars.

I still don't think there was a systematic problem with the drums, though. I think they have an acceptable rate of failure.

[tbradshaw]

^^^^ Apples:
Your response was the best I have seen from a Moderator on this site. It was to the point, dry of personal crusades, and informative. I will now follow your advice, and take things in stride. Thank you for your time as moderator, I was starting to think that all of you were worthless, and only moderated so that someone would listen to your fanboy rants.
Keep it up Apples

Apples is awesome, I agree. You should try complimenting without lacing them with insults. It's hard to tell if you really agree that Apples' response is fantastic (which it is), or if you just needed an excuse to nail me. ;)

[SoulScreme]

Holy crap man you have to be kidding me. There is nothing wrong with my equipment perhaps it is the user. Harmonix made a great game and for you to demand a "confession" means you have tooo much time on your hands. Get a life things happen. Honestly have you ever played a game such as this. As far as I know nothing like this has been done before

Get over it
get over yourself
get a life

Ahh, so since yours works that means there is not a problem?

And, as for it being amazing and never done before... really? They took Guitar Hero and Karaoke Revolution (games they created) and slapped them together. Then they took the same basic gameplay for guitar, and used it for drums, which was done in drummania. It is a great game, but it's not that new.

[Maggot_Brain]

Holy crap man you have to be kidding me. There is nothing wrong with my equipment perhaps it is the user. Harmonix made a great game and for you to demand a "confession" means you have tooo much time on your hands. Get a life things happen. Honestly have you ever played a game such as this. As far as I know nothing like this has been done before

Get over it
get over yourself
get a life

Well, to be fair, working dependable music peripherals have been done before. I've got 2 two year old GH SG's in perfect condition.

[560sdl]

So what your saying is paying customers have to accept the fact they have broken equiptment that they payed for with no explanation as to why they are broken. Basically too bad for you customer.... oh well

How is fixing every broken piece of equipment at their expense saying "too bad".

[whofan]

We have the right to return the product for a refund? What about the people who bought into the false adverstising about the game being compatible with "most" (LOL) guitar controllers.

Somebody point me to this "false advertising" please, because I must have missed it.

"Most" does NOT mean all. Right now the only guitars out there for the next gen systems are the X-Plorer (360), Les Paul (360, PS3) and Strat (360, PS3). Let's see.... The game works with:
X-Plorer (360), Les Paul (360), and Strat (360, PS3)

It does not work with:
Les Paul (PS3)

Let's see.... the percentage it works with is.....80%. That qualifies as "most" in almost any books.

They never said anything about the LP working with the game, so if it works bonus! If not, well they never advertised it as working in the first place so it's not false advertising.

They didn't make individually different boxes for the PS3 and Xbox 360 versions (only the banners are different) and thus the "most" applies to all systems. The sticker does not apply to only the PS3 version. You'd have more of a case if the sticker read "Works With Most PS3 Guitar Controllers" (Although, I'd still argue against you as 50% of the controllers available for the PS3 work just fine with the game).

Regardless, it's your own interpretations that led you to believe that it would be compatible with the LP for the PS3.

Care to try again?

[whofan]

Well, to be fair, working dependable music peripherals have been done before. I've got 2 two year old GH SG's in perfect condition.
And to be fair, those were made by a different company that had tonne of experience building periphreals prior to those guitars. These are HMX's first attempts, there are going to be issues

[SoulScreme]

Somebody point me to this "false advertising" please, because I must have missed it.

"Most" does NOT mean all. Right now the only guitars out there for the next gen systems are the X-Plorer (360), Les Paul (360, PS3) and Strat (360, PS3). Let's see.... The game works with:
X-Plorer (360), Les Paul (360), and Strat (360, PS3)

It does not work with:
Les Paul (PS3)

Let's see.... the percentage it works with is.....80%. That qualifies as "most" in almost any books.

They never said anything about the LP working with the game, so if it works bonus! If not, well they never advertised it as working in the first place so it's not false advertising.

They didn't make individually different boxes for the PS3 and Xbox 360 versions (only the banners are different) and thus the "most" applies to all systems. The sticker does not apply to only the PS3 version. You'd have more of a case if the sticker read "Works With Most PS3 Guitar Controllers" (Although, I'd still argue against you as 50% of the controllers available for the PS3 work just fine with the game).

Regardless, it's your own interpretations that led you to believe that it would be compatible with the LP for the PS3.

Care to try again?

The problem is that when you read the phrase works with moste guitar controllers on a PS3 package, you assume they mean, for the PS3. Sorry if I was confused and didn't realize they were including the 360 guitars. For PS3 owners there are NO other guitars. Thus, the advertising that the PS3 game would work with anything other than the Strat is false.

[560sdl]

I was at the Redskins Bears game last night and there was a Redskins "fan" behind me that was the most obnoxious ass I have ever seen or heard. He constantly yelled profanity, cheered when opposing players got hurt, cussed out fans of the other team just because they cheered when their team did good.

Now we rooted for the same team, but I found his behavior childish, rude and embarrassing. I guess others would have considered him a "great" fan. I could not stand him any longer and left early.

Anybody else see parallels with this forum?

[HMXJohnlok]

For the OP: we are constantly monitoring the different issues people have with their peripherals, and we have a warranty system in place to deal with any break-downs that may occur.

[Bakkster]

The problem is that when you read the phrase works with moste guitar controllers on a PS3 package, you assume they mean, for the PS3. Sorry if I was confused and didn't realize they were including the 360 guitars. For PS3 owners there are NO other guitars. Thus, the advertising that the PS3 game would work with anything other than the Strat is false.

Ok, now how is saying "most" a guarantee that the only currently available 3rd-party peripheral works? It isn't, there was no guarantee. The only people who said the LP works was IGN (right?), and they only tested on the 360.

If I were in the position, I would have waited until someone could verify the LP worked. Again, there was no guarantee, nor is the incompatibility solely HMX's fault.

You can be disappointed, but you can't claim false advertising.

[SoulScreme]

Ok, now how is saying "most" a guarantee that the only currently available 3rd-party peripheral works? It isn't, there was no guarantee. The only people who said the LP works was IGN (right?), and they only tested on the 360.

If I were in the position, I would have waited until someone could verify the LP worked. Again, there was no guarantee, nor is the incompatibility solely HMX's fault.

You can be disappointed, but you can't claim false advertising.

Wow, that logic is strange. So, if you got a car, and you were told that the headlights would work with "most" lightbulbs on the market, but you found out it actually only worked with the ones the manufacturer sold, you wouldn't feel lied to?

[Loozinit]

For the OP: we are constantly monitoring the different issues people have with their peripherals, and we have a warranty system in place to deal with any break-downs that may occur.
there ya go....that says it all.
IF you have issues (I personally don't w/my peripherals) then there's a system in place to take care of you as a consumer, what more do you want?

yes, we'd all like to hear more from HMX staff about the future of the franchise and DLC, but in reality it's only been a couple weeks since launch (w/PS2 and single peripherals still to come) let them get all that straight/have some downtime/celebration time and after the new year i'm sure there will be tons of announcements. for now, enjoy. :cool:

[tbradshaw]

Wow, that logic is strange. So, if you got a car, and you were told that the headlights would work with "most" lightbulbs on the market, but you found out it actually only worked with the ones the manufacturer sold, you wouldn't feel lied to?

If there were only two bulbs on the market? No.

[Abaddon]

Anyone else who was a big fan of the Sega 2k sports NFL series probably feels the same way as I do :)Are you mad at EA because Sunday NFL Ticket is exclusively available on DirecTV? Seriously -- you're complaining about the wrong monopoloy here -- you know, the one that has special Congressional permission to not be considered a monopoly even though they are.

[SoulScreme]

If there were only two bulbs on the market? No.

So you buy the car, car sales man says "The headlights can use mostly any bulb you could find." You go and find out the only one that isn't from the manufacturer and it doesn't work, and you're not even slightly miffed?

Wow, either you are impossible to anger or you really are a Harmonix apologist.

[SoulScreme]

Are you mad at EA because Sunday NFL Ticket is exclusively available on DirecTV? Seriously -- you're complaining about the wrong monopoloy here -- you know, the one that has special Congressional permission to not be considered a monopoly even though they are.

Water? Power? Mass transit? Cable telivision? Which one are you talking about?

[Bakkster]

Wow, that logic is strange. So, if you got a car, and you were told that the headlights would work with "most" lightbulbs on the market, but you found out it actually only worked with the ones the manufacturer sold, you wouldn't feel lied to?

Let's say the lightbulbs are the kind that point half the beam in alignment with the tires. Obviously more complex, and requires a particular interface. Now, if another company releases a bulb that wasn't designed for your car, will you complain if it doesn't work?

That's the issue here. The Les Paul was not designed for RB. Ultimately RO is responsible for the initial inoperability.


If there were only two bulbs on the market? No.

QFT

[SoulScreme]

Let's say the lightbulbs are the kind that point half the beam in alignment with the tires. Obviously more complex, and requires a particular interface. Now, if another company releases a bulb that wasn't designed for your car, will you complain if it doesn't work?

That's the issue here. The Les Paul was not designed for RB. Ultimately RO is responsible for the initial inoperability.



QFT

I don't see your point. RO is responsible? RO never said, implied, or lead anyone to believe it would work. That was Harmonix.

[Eagoyle]

Sega 2K sports is a video game series. EA purchase the exclusive rights to use the NFL teams/players so no other company could.

They are the 800lb gorilla. That isn't so much of a problem, until they start the smell and eat all of you food.



Unfortunately, this ishow most companies will interact with the public. Any anouncements have to be cleared by the PR people. Speculation isn't allowed. Fault is only admitted, when they are cerain where fault lies.

HMX is very forthcoming, but very busy, and probably very contained by the upper management. Such is life. When somthing can be said, I am sure it will be.

[terRize]

The problem is that when you read the phrase works with moste guitar controllers on a PS3 package, you assume they mean, for the PS3. Sorry if I was confused and didn't realize they were including the 360 guitars. For PS3 owners there are NO other guitars. Thus, the advertising that the PS3 game would work with anything other than the Strat is false.

I thought the same thing actually. Why would a PS3 owner who read "works with most guitar controllers" think at all that they mean 360 included?


They didn't make individually different boxes for the PS3 and Xbox 360 versions (only the banners are different) and thus the "most" applies to all systems. The sticker does not apply to only the PS3 version. You'd have more of a case if the sticker read "Works With Most PS3 Guitar Controllers" (Although, I'd still argue against you as 50% of the controllers available for the PS3 work just fine with the game).

Does the PS2 GH guitars work with PS3 GH3? I know you can use them to play GH1 and 2 on a PS3 so some people might consider those a part of "most" as well. And nowhere does it say "most current gen" controllers.

Also if "most" applies to all systems then it's definitely false as my PS3 will not let me play with a 360 guitar controller either.

I don't think it's asking to much to think that a PS3 purchaser would think "most" means most guitar controllers for their system. Of which, I'd argue there are 4 (GH1, GH2, GH3, and Strat) and only 1 works. So I think in this instance PS3 owners do actually have a beef with that particular line.

Hopefully whatever the hold up is will be fixed and the issue will go away =)

[tbradshaw]

So you buy the car, car sales man says "The headlights can use mostly any bulb you could find." You go and find out the only one that isn't from the manufacturer and it doesn't work, and you're not even slightly miffed?

Wow, either you are impossible to anger or you really are a Harmonix apologist.

Ahahaha. Well, I'm very difficult to anger and I'm not an apologist for any company. My reasoning is:

When a product make a package statement like, "Headlights support most bulbs." I interpret that statement to be valid for the life of the product. When I go to the store and find only two bulbs, I realize that they are making a statement for a market that isn't yet developed. There are only two bulbs, both probably made before the product was launched, but I can reasonably assume that most bulbs that come out from here on out are going to work with my new headlights.

I guess I'm just not that short-term of a thinker when I'm thinking of commerce. I blame all the econ classes.

[SoulScreme]

Ahahaha. Well, I'm very difficult to anger and I'm not an apologist for any company. My reasoning is:

When a product make a package statement like, "Headlights support most bulbs." I interpret that statement to be valid for the life of the product. When I go to the store and find only two bulbs, I realize that they are making a statement for a market that isn't yet developed. There are only two bulbs, both probably made before the product was launched, but I can reasonably assume that most bulbs that come out from here on out are going to work with my new headlights.

I guess I'm just not that short-term of a thinker when I'm thinking of commerce. I blame all the econ classes.

Ahh, well then all we have to do is wait for the GH4 guitar, I'm sure that will work.

[tbradshaw]

Hopefully whatever the hold up is will be fixed and the issue will go away =)

Amen, brother! We're still in the infancy of the game. It's going to be fantastic when our issues with controller compatibility are resolved, all of the junk strats have been replaced, new third party controllers are hittin' the market, and we're sittin' on a couple hundred fat DLC tracks.

That's when the investment in the Rock Band platform is really going to pay off. I can't wait for then. :D

[tbradshaw]

Ahh, well then all we have to do is wait for the GH4 guitar, I'm sure that will work.

Heheheh. You so clever. ;) I agree. It will be very interesting to see if the new GH4 controller (assuming there is one, probably so?) is designed to be compatible, or if the RedOctane/Activision group is going to try and play hard ball with customers.

[SoulScreme]

Amen, brother! We're still in the infancy of the game. It's going to be fantastic when our issues with controller compatibility are resolved, all of the junk strats have been replaced, new third party controllers are hittin' the market, and we're sittin' on a couple hundred fat DLC tracks.

That's when the investment in the Rock Band platform is really going to pay off. I can't wait for then. :D

Ahh, didn't realize I'd only pre-ordered a quality product. Though I was picking it up in the store.

[Xero314]

Somebody point me to this "false advertising" please, because I must have missed it.

It's deceptive, not false, when placing the compatibility statement on the PS3 version of the game, but deceptive advertising is also illegal. Also your numbers are WAY off. I Own a PS3 and currently have 4 different Guitar peripherals which work with the PS3 and there are many others (I use some of them to play GH1/GH2 since Activision chose not to make their newest Peripheral backward compatible. Well I used to play GH/GH2 on my PS3 before I boycotted the company). So all in all there are over a dozen Guitar Peripherals compatible with the PS3 yet there is exactly 1 that works with Rock Band, which is not what I would consider MOST by any definition of the word. And this doesn't even begin to get in to the non-guitar music game controllers (DRR Dance pads and Sing Star Microphones. which probably break even since one works with the game and the other doesn't). No mater how you look at it putting "compatible with most music game controllers" on the PS3 box is deceptive.

Now I support Harmonix and there attempts so far to set things right. If the Get the Les Paul working I will be satisfied even though that still does not qualify as most. If the get my GH1/2 controllers work as well then they are heros in my eyes.

[Bakkster]

I don't see your point. RO is responsible? RO never said, implied, or lead anyone to believe it would work. That was Harmonix.

When did HMX say "The Les Paul for the PS3 will work for Rock Band"? They said "Any guitar that follows our standards will work".

You are an early adopter, you took a risk. **** happens.

Again, feel free to be pissed that the Les Paul doesn't work, but how can HMX be held responsible that another company made a guitar that didn't work for their system? Especially since they didn't have access to the guitar until the game was in QA to go gold and RO wasn't exactly forthcoming about promoting compatibility.

[DeusTrinitas]

For the OP: we are constantly monitoring the different issues people have with their peripherals, and we have a warranty system in place to deal with any break-downs that may occur.

I appreciate the response from a Harmonix employee, I really do. And I do appreciate the warranty system that replaces faulty equipment for free. The only problem is that out of the three drum kits I have RMA'ed, all three have had the same problem: the red drum pad does not register fast rolls. From my reading of the forums, it is clear that this issue is widespread.

What I don't understand is why there is not an official statement concerning the drums that is the equivalent of the statement concerning the guitars. Can you guys not say anything about the faulty manufacturing of the drums? Heck, one of your consumers even did your work for you: he made a post in the tech support forum with pictures that shows what the problem with the drums specifically is.

All I want is a set of drums that registers all of my hits. Everything else is fine. Once I am assured that the drums are now fixed, I will send in my current kit for the fourth time and hopefully have a fully functional set of drums.

[560sdl]

So you buy the car, car sales man says "The headlights can use mostly any bulb you could find." You go and find out the only one that isn't from the manufacturer and it doesn't work, and you're not even slightly miffed?

Wow, either you are impossible to anger or you really are a Harmonix apologist.

1. How stupid would you have to be to believe what a car salesman told you?

2. How stupid would you have to be to realize that a Lexus Bulb would probably not work in a Hundai

I am not calling you stupid, but using a car analogy probably does not work here.

[hmxsean]

All info in this thread noted. Thread has now gotten off tracks.