How about an informal announcement on the official annoucement?

[psDragon]

I was just wondering if there might be a time frame when the announcement would be made about the compatibility issue. Like will it be next week? next month? this year? next year?

And if HMX can't fix the compatibility issue for whatever reason, be it legal or technical, does that mean they also open themselves up for lawsuits for false advertising? Do you think they would have to pay for my copy of GH3 since I thought the guitar would work with RB? Or do they take back Rockband?

[zerogeo3]

Neither, as no where on the package does it say compatible with the Guitar Hero III Les Paul....

[Huskie]

I was just wondering if there might be a time frame when the announcement would be made about the compatibility issue. Like will it be next week? next month? this year? next year?



Per Sean and the "patch" in http://community.rockband.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=13926 , later this afternoon at the earliest.

[mookie25]

I have a really eerie feeling that this announcement is going to be nothing but BAD news.

[MF-PO'd]

I have a really eerie feeling that this announcement is going to be nothing but BAD news.

That's what I'm expecting.. what a shock. More bad news. :rolleyes:

If I had to guess, I'd say their legal people or whoever crafts the official announcements is probably wording things right now to point the figure and deflect any blame from themselves. (which in this instance is accurate this time)

[mookie25]

Available today is a routine update for the PLAYSTATION 3 version of
Rock Band that addresses a number of items related to guitar controller
compatibility. Should Rock Band owners choose to obtain the update, they
will need broadband internet access connected to their PLAYSTATION 3.
The update will be downloaded once the game is started.


SIGH. What has this turned into? It's no longer about what the consumer wants (not sure if it ever was) but now it's especially about the $$$$$$. What a shame. The consumer gets screwed again, same story, different book.

[Ultrace]

Available today is a routine update for the PLAYSTATION 3 version of
Rock Band that addresses a number of items related to guitar controller
compatibility. Should Rock Band owners choose to obtain the update, they
will need broadband internet access connected to their PLAYSTATION 3.
The update will be downloaded once the game is started.


SIGH. What has this turned into? It's no longer about what the consumer wants (not sure if it ever was) but now it's especially about the $$$$$$. What a shame. The consumer gets screwed again, same story, different book.
Okay, so what exactly is your problem with the statement above? Is it the broadband requirement? Because that's pretty much a staple for connecting to PSN or XBL as far as I know. Really, your eternally (and at times unjustified) negative attitude is just a bit of a drag.

[Assassinbug]

Neither, as no where on the package does it say compatible with the Guitar Hero III Les Paul....

Actually, in the game booklet it says that the game will work with any other "compatible guitar peripheral"
Now, I know it says "compatable" and the les paul certainly isn't...but what other guitar could they possibly be referring to?

[espher]

Actually, in the game booklet it says that the game will work with any other "compatible guitar peripheral"
Now, I know it says "compatable" and the les paul certainly isn't...but what other guitar could they possibly be referring to?

Maybe... future peripherals or third-party peripherals? DUN DUN DUN.

[Parodygm]

Actually, in the game booklet it says that the game will work with any other "compatible guitar peripheral"
Now, I know it says "compatable" and the les paul certainly isn't...but what other guitar could they possibly be referring to?

Hypothetical future ones?

[mookie25]

Okay, so what exactly is your problem with the statement above? Is it the broadband requirement? Because that's pretty much a staple for connecting to PSN or XBL as far as I know. Really, your eternally (and at times unjustified) negative attitude is just a bit of a drag.


I wasn't talking about the statement, actually. The statement is fine, it's just amazing how we were all psyched about THAT SAME STATEMENT, and now it's a benchmark for the small-scale letdown this situation has led to so far. And BTW, if the things I say are a "drag", don't read them. I don't want to hurt your feelings.

[Eastwood]

I was wondering if HMX could make an announcement as to who really killed Kennedy. They said they would know, but there hasn't been an announcement yet and a little info would help :rolleyes:

[Tarzanman]

THIS IS SPECULATION.

The delay/hold for the compatbility update is being caused by *either* a hardware platform provider or a competing software/hardware vendor.

There could be a couple of reasons, but rest assured that money is the at the root of the cause.

It might be that 4ct1v1si0n is complaining that the patch violates their IP or it might be that that SC34 is worried that they are missing out on licensing money since they didn't author a guitar-controller standard and now their content providers are doing it for them.

We might never know

[Gryffindor]

I'm simply hoping we get some info prior to the weekend. It will suck to wait until Monday to hear of any updates.

[mookie25]

I'm simply hoping we get some info prior to the weekend. It will suck to wait until Monday to hear of any updates.

Amen to that. Hopefully we'll get SOME type of update. But then again, we should be used to being hung out to dry at this point.

[Assassinbug]

Yeah...like the hypothetical compatability patch we've been hearing about. This is all so convoluted. All I wanna do is...rock.

[glacier985]

I think (and hope) Sony is the one holding the patch up. A guitar hero patch is also suppose to be on its way out to fix calibration issues. The xbox got it earlier this week and PS3 users have yet to get it. So this is kind of making me think that Sony are the ones holding up the release.

[mookie25]

This situation is borderline ridiculous.

[Assassinbug]

I think (and hope) Sony is the one holding the patch up. A guitar hero patch is also suppose to be on its way out to fix calibration issues. The xbox got it earlier this week and PS3 users have yet to get it. So this is kind of making me think that Sony are the ones holding up the release.

I thought that 360 users had compatibility from day one? Matter 'o fact, that's one of the biggest issues for PS3 users not having it.

[SoulScreme]

This situation is borderline ridiculous.

Well, despite our earlier disagreement, I couldn't agree with you more. Clearly too much politicking and bureaucracy coming in to effect.

[DoctorWho]

**trying to bring this thread back on track...**

Sean, could you at LEAST answer this question which is informal?

We're having some friends over this weekend to play RB and we don't want to have someone sit out each time we play a song and would like to have 4 players together enjoying the game!

Should we find something else to do instead of wanting to play 4 player Band Quickplay? (I'm a PS3 owner wanting to use LP in RB)

[glacier985]

I thought that 360 users had compatibility from day one? Matter 'o fact, that's one of the biggest issues for PS3 users not having it.

I should have mentioned it fixes lag calibration, my fault.

[mookie25]

Well, despite our earlier disagreement, I couldn't agree with you more. Clearly too much politicking and bureaucracy coming in to effect.

Yeah, it's come to a point where, no matter what our opinions are of other topics, we can all agree that this is becoming a really ridiculous situation and things really need to be straightened out.

[Assassinbug]

*chants* In-for-mation...in-for-mation! We deserve to know what's going on. I've been compulsively checking this site for days now. I'm guitarless, and now that I've read some distressing things about janky replacement guitars I'm feeling a little scammed. Please Sony, Harmonix, EA, give your loyal fans a reason to maintain faith!

[Parah]

Rest assured, guys. The guys at Harmonix (like HMXSean) are working hard to get answers to the whole patch issue.

[rgardjr]

*chants* In-for-mation...in-for-mation! We deserve to know what's going on. I've been compulsively checking this site for days now. I'm guitarless, and now that I've read some distressing things about janky replacement guitars I'm feeling a little scammed. Please Sony, Harmonix, EA, give your loyal fans a reason to maintain faith!

Seems pretty simple. Activision specifically prohibits the use of their controller with any non-Guitar Hero or non-Activision games. Harmonix has a patch ready, but until some agreement can be reached with Activision it will not be released. I'm guessing that Harmonix is currently trying to work something out with Activision to get this patch released. I'm guessing that until Harmonix either works out an agreement or completely abandons trying to work out an agreement there won't be any official comment. So either we will get the patch or we will get the official announcement that Harmonix can't release the patch for legal reasons. I'm sure Harmonix doesn't want to sabotage any on going negotiations by pointing the finger at Activision, because once it gets to that point the ball pretty much falls in the consumers court to put pressure on Activision.

[Makomachine]

I have a theory that the patch was confiscated by the NSA due to the impact it will have on the social fabric of our country during the war. This is a "W" issue - I'm going to go right now and post on the White House board what I think of them confiscating my patch.

There, I said it, so it has to be true. Flood the government/political party message boards...makes perfect sense since your read it on the internet.

It absolutely amazes me the amount of supposition, rumor mongering, and angst on this forum. There are a 1000 possible reasons why the patch is not ready, let's try and exercise some patience until we get an answer on the when and the why's and try not to linch anyone prior to then. :rolleyes:

[eVan_Diesel]

Seems pretty simple. Activision specifically prohibits the use of their controller with any non-Guitar Hero or non-Activision games.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever read. My friend and I used the LP guitars to play Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo the other week. Does that mean that Activision should be suing Capcom for violating their controller rights? I mean c'mon.

[mookie25]

Where's out "statement". It's 4:40 in New York, we were promised a statement later this afternoon.

[MF-PO'd]

Where do they work? Are they on the west coast? It might still be early for them.

[DesiredFX]

It absolutely amazes me the amount of supposition, rumor mongering, and angst on this forum. There are a 1000 possible reasons why the patch is not ready...

Generally agreed, except: the patch is ready--every indication is that Sony's had it for days. It's just not available.

[Nate Finch]

My friend and I used the LP guitars to play Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo the other week.

Awesome!

Guys... it's not like they don't *want* to give you information... but the whole reason this debacle started is because they gave out information before they were 100% sure..... and at the time, I bet they thought they were 100% sure... just turned out to be 99.99% and they got boned by that last .01.

The information will come when it comes. I want to play with 4 people this weekend too. Just be patient.

[Eagoyle]

They are Boston-ians.

[Huskie]

Where's out "statement". It's 4:40 in New York, we were promised a statement later this afternoon.

Come on mookie. Sean did not say that publicly or I just didn't see it.
What he said, which I already mentioned back on page one, is this:

It would be later this afternoon at the earliest. :)
At the earliest. Nowhere does it say latest.
He was trying to give the page refreshers a breather.

[Bakkster]

I'm sure Harmonix doesn't want to sabotage any on going negotiations by pointing the finger at Activision, because once it gets to that point the ball pretty much falls in the consumers court to put pressure on Activision.

Can't stand it, I know ya' planned. I'm gonna' set it straight, this Watergate.


Where's out "statement". It's 4:40 in New York, we were promised a statement later this afternoon.

So it's not still the afternoon?

[rgardjr]

That's the dumbest thing I've ever read. My friend and I used the LP guitars to play Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo the other week. Does that mean that Activision should be suing Capcom for violating their controller rights? I mean c'mon.

I didn't make it up... Look at the Guitar Hero 3 box. I don't know what Activision will do, but by reading their disclaimer I know that they obviously want some level of control over what their peripherals are used with.

Guitar Hero 3:
"Activision Authorizes use of this Guitar Hero game only in combination with the Guitar Hero Controllers provided by activision or standard gamepad controllers provided with the game console. Activision also authorizes us of the Guitar Hero controller only with a Guitar Hero Game Product or other Activision Branded Product. ANY OTHER USE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. No Other License, Express or implied, is granted"

[Iggylove]

Like most, I would just like a firm statement either way so I can decide either to sell my GH3 package or wait.

[deathinc]

Where do they work? Are they on the west coast? It might still be early for them.

Last word I had was that HMXSean was working from a beach in Hawaii.... Where it's like not even noon yet...

Might be awhile. :(






(I'm kidding - He's in Boston)

[Grave461]

I don't see what the big deal is.

Either Harmonix comes out with a patch, or they don't.

If they do, then you can use your GH3 controller. If not, buy another RB guitar. They're only $50-some dollars. It's not like you have to buy the whole Limited Edition again.


Either way, I already have GH3 for the PS3 and Rock Band. If a compatibility patch comes out, then great... I can use my GH3 controller. If not, then I'll eventually buy another RB guitar. It's not that big of a deal to me.

[mookie25]

Come on mookie. Sean did not say that publicly or I just didn't see it.
What he said, which I already mentioned back on page one, is this:

At the earliest. Nowhere does it say latest.
He was trying to give the page refreshers a breather.


I never said "latest", Huskie. I said "later". I'm just getting a bit annoyed that they (HMX) were so quick to announce the patch, yet are taking so long to let us in on some info in regard to the whole delay situation.

[Nate Finch]

They are Boston-ians.

Woo! Boston!

(sorry)

Yeah, Harmonix is based out of Cambridge, Mass, which is right outside Boston. I probably travel within 100' of their offices every day on the T (that's what we Bostonians call the subway).

I'm guessing Friday at 5 is not the best time to be looking for an answer from Sony, so I wouldn't be surprised if we had to wait until Monday, unfortunately. As someone else said, he did say earliest.

[mookie25]

I don't see what the big deal is.

Either Harmonix comes out with a patch, or they don't.

If they do, then you can use your GH3 controller. If not, buy another RB guitar. They're only $50-some dollars. It's not like you have to buy the whole Limited Edition again.


Either way, I already have GH3 for the PS3 and Rock Band. If a compatibility patch comes out, then great... I can use my GH3 controller. If not, then I'll eventually buy another RB guitar. It's not that big of a deal to me.

Yeah, and then after that, I'll go ahead and re-buy things that I already have because I have all the money in the world to waste.

[Nate Finch]

I don't see what the big deal is.

Either Harmonix comes out with a patch, or they don't.

If they do, then you can use your GH3 controller. If not, buy another RB guitar. They're only $50-some dollars. It's not like you have to buy the whole Limited Edition again.

You can't buy another RB guitar until January 31st (according to Amazon's pre-order date). That's the problem. If we could, I don't think we'd be so crazy over a patch (it would still be great, but not as necessary).

[Makomachine]

Generally agreed, except: the patch is ready--every indication is that Sony's had it for days. It's just not available.

Agreed. Should have clarified "ready to download". I'm just a little worn out with all of it. I completely understand people wanting it NOW - I happen to be one of them - just getting tired of the 'over the top' people that repeatedly take this issue, updates, and rumors to the absurd.

[dfjdejulio]

buy another RB guitar.
Can't. Not available yet. Around the end of January, supposedly, but not before then.

(I'm keeping track of the date because I'm 99% certain that I'll buy the drum kit once I can get it unbundled. If things are ever patched so that the RB guitar works with GH2 and GH3 on the XBox, then I will certainly buy one. But for now I'm not completely willing to write off GH yet, so I'm not buying any guitar that only works with 1.5 games.)

I gotta admit. I'm an XBox 360 user. I'm using the GH3 guitar with RB just fine right now. This issue doesn't actually impact me at all. But I'm getting really worked up about the PS3 guitar issue anyway, for some reason. I want to be angry at someone about it, and can't figure out for sure who that should be yet.

[mookie25]

I am becoming redundant. I really can't get over how ridiculous this situation is and how poorly handled these various situations have been handled.

[Parah]

Lawl. Nice Beastie Boys reference.

[DesiredFX]

I am becoming redundant. I really can't get over how ridiculous this situation is and how poorly handled these various situations have been handled.

Yeah the handulation of the handling of the things that need to be handled has definitely been sub-par. In my own handlefying experiences, I can generally handulate those things that need to be handled with a much firmer hand.

[Bakkster]

I'm just getting a bit annoyed that they (HMX) were so quick to announce the patch, yet are taking so long to let us in on some info in regard to the whole delay situation.

So would you rather they tell us what actually happened, or make another statement only to have everything change again? In the case of the latter, you guys just get angry again and HMX has another problem.

I figure they'll just whether the "I'm impatient, whaaaaah!" whining and then make a real statement when they're absolutely sure they won't get screwed by Sony/Activision/anyone else.... again.

[mookie25]

Yeah the handulation of the handling of the things that need to be handled has definitely been sub-par. In my own handlefying experiences, I can generally handulate those things that need to be handled with a much firmer hand.

As your attempt to be funny comes and goes, you'll re-read my post and the first line. "I am becoming redundant"

My post was a JOKE, dude.

[DesiredFX]

As your attempt to be funny comes and goes, you'll re-read my post and the first line. "I am becoming redundant"

My post was a JOKE, dude.

Did I miss the part where I sounded like I was taking it seriously?

[mookie25]

So would you rather they tell us what actually happened, or make another statement only to have everything change again? In the case of the latter, you guys just get angry again and HMX has another problem.

I figure they'll just whether the "I'm impatient, whaaaaah!" whining and then make a real statement when they're absolutely sure they won't get screwed by Sony/Activision/anyone else.... again.


If things were done right in the first place, HMX wouldn't have ANY problems. And don't be so quick to blame everyone but HMX, nobody knows the real story. I just wish we'd get a statement or a reason for the delay sooner than later.

[mookie25]

Did I miss the part where I sounded like I was taking it seriously?

I'm just messing around with you. :p

[DesiredFX]

I'm just messing around with you. :p

Hey, might as well...it's not like I'm getting any work done, anyway...

[angelus]

I just want the patch... Any word when they'll say something? Good or Bad?

[Bakkster]

If things were done right in the first place, HMX wouldn't have ANY problems. And don't be so quick to blame everyone but HMX, nobody knows the real story. I just wish we'd get a statement or a reason for the delay sooner than later.

If announcing early was a mistake, why do you want to make another early announcement? It would just lead to more whining. I'd rather they just tell us what's going on when they know what it is, rather than have extenuating circumstances cause problems again.

[vash56]

i wish these threads would stop sucking me in
i keep checking them just to see if there are any posts from HMX in them

[DoctorWho]

i wish these threads would stop sucking me in
i keep checking them just to see if there are any posts from HMX in them

You're not the only one :mad:

I hate to be so mad about this, but seriously we bought this game as a PARTY game and so far we can't do that. If I don't hear anything by the end of the weekend this game is going on Ebay and I'll wait to see how the issues play out in a few months. There are a lot of other things I can spend $170 on right now.

[cheddar]

The whole Activision thing is only a rumor, but maybe the more attention it gets the more likely somebody will say and do something about resolving all this bs.

http://www.digg.com/playstation/Is_Activision_behind_the_Rock_Band_patch_delay_for _PS3

[AMartin56]

I'm really hoping those amazon prices are BS. $80 for a Strat alone? Not if it's the same quality as some I've seen (even though I have a working replacement now). Hell at those prices it would make more sense to buy a second kit for spare parts...

[Gryffindor]

It would not surprise me in the least if the release date for the single guitars is pushed back at least a month or two due to all of the replacement guitars having to be shipped out. This is part of the reason why a lot of people want the patch up and running. Plus, there's a lot of us that just really don't like the way the strat works. I HATED the first one I had (which promptly broke). This new one IS better but the strummer just can't keep up with all of the fast notes like the LP could/can.

[DoctorWho]

SORT OF Update is up:

http://community.rockband.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=14237

I'm sorry but SCREW this. I'm selling my RB as this has been a nightmare going on 4 weeks and the holidays are coming (parties etc...).

Anyone that needs a used PS3 RB let me know. Good luck with the patch!

[psDragon]

Lots of people are wishing to use the patch for a 4th person to play bass. I just want the patch so I can play the game with a guitar. The Strat was DOA and I'm still waiting for the replacement. I have yet to play it with a guitar!

And I agree with the other people that say if there were guitars available to buy seperately this wouldn't be such a big issue.

I actually bought 2 GH3 Bundles because the guitars arent sold seperately, but there is NO WAY I'll buy 2 RB special editions just for extra parts. Perhaps if they extended the warranty to 1 year i'd buy 2 just for backup since the equipment is so faulty.

On a positive note, I called for an RMA with the expedited service using my CC on Wednesday and I can see with UPS tracking that it is going to arrive Monday. So a total turn around of 5 days is pretty good. I just hope the guitar I get is good.

[DoctorWho]

Lots of people are wishing to use the patch for a 4th person to play bass. I just want the patch so I can play the game with a guitar. The Strat was DOA and I'm still waiting for the replacement. I have yet to play it with a guitar!

And I agree with the other people that say if there were guitars available to buy seperately this wouldn't be such a big issue.

I actually bought 2 GH3 Bundles because the guitars arent sold seperately, but there is NO WAY I'll buy 2 RB special editions just for extra parts. Perhaps if they extended the warranty to 1 year i'd buy 2 just for backup since the equipment is so faulty.

I'm in the same boat you are. I bought 2 GH3 bundles partly for RB. This game has been a diasaster (PS3 ONLY) since launch date and I have completely lost faith in everyone involved, especially HMX for not clearly coming forth with information (even what little information they have!!). My hopes were high early this week when I saw a post that the patch was "up"! Right now, I have a feeling there is NO WAY this patch will get here before Christmas. All of this speculation has done nothing, and we still have NOTHING.

This was a gamble for a game company to come out with a title at $170, and then be PLAGUED with problems. I'm fed up as I think most of you are, (still waiting on guitar replacement its been 3 weeks now) and I will never buy another HMX product again on this system.

Sony has lost, HMX has lost, Red Octane/Activision have been drug through the muck with this issue, and ultimately us as the consumers have lost.

[MF-PO'd]

Yep, scrap this weekend. I get to use my game for a coaster for at least another weekend. Yey.

I'm still assuming Activision are being *****s here until someone from their side denies it or proves that rumour wrong. I guess Harmonix shouldn't out them yet because they probably need to 'play nicely' with them to get a resolution to this (so I understand the secrecy).

[saunderse4]

Here is my thought on the entire thing. I believe that Activision is trying to block this patch only because they don’t want to be caught up in the Harmonix was able to fix their issue with Rock Band by releasing a patch so way can’t Activision fix their issue with GHIII by doing the same thing. They don’t want to make Rock Band guitars compatible with Guitar Hero because it will cost them money. Like I said it’s only a thought and no one knows for sure but the 2 companies and Sony.

[CRCError]

"Activision Authorizes use of this Guitar Hero game only in combination with the Guitar Hero Controllers provided by activision or standard gamepad controllers provided with the game console. Activision also authorizes use of the Guitar Hero controller only with a Guitar Hero Game Product or other Activision Branded Product. ANY OTHER USE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. No Other License, Express or implied, is granted"

From a legal standpoint - Just because Activision says you can't does not technically mean it's illegal to do so. What about 360 owners who use an off-brand game controller made by Pelican? Are they really able to pursue legal action against Pelican or the end user since the agreement clearly states "standard gamepad controllers provided with the game console."

I know it's not that simple for HMX to determine, but I haven't seen any news about HMX/EA getting legal threats from RO/Activison because the X360 version of the game works fine with both controllers. That kind of makes me think SCEA is holding up the process.

[Grave461]

You can't buy another RB guitar until January 31st (according to Amazon's pre-order date). That's the problem. If we could, I don't think we'd be so crazy over a patch (it would still be great, but not as necessary).


Yeah, I see what you're saying there. It does suck that it's taking so long to release the individual instruments. It kind of dissapoints me too, especially when I break out the Rock Band at parties and can only have 3 people playing at a time instead of 4.

Even still, once Harmonix releases the RB guitars, even if there is a GH3 patch out by then, I'll probably buy another RB guitar. I like the feel of it better than the GH3 guitars anyway.

[Dissent]

Sigh... another night of my friends being underwhelmed with the three-man band. My bassist tags in and out with the guitarist but it's such a pain in the ass it eventually becomes,"nah you go ahead... you're doing pretty good anyway." The fact that the game simply CANNOT be played with four people as is the point is just too damn much to swallow. I want an update on the information about the damned patch.

[mookie25]

I'm just about fed up with this. I'm thinking about putting my used drums and everything on ebay, and once I get my replacement guitar in the mail (120 years from now), I'll put that up on ebay too. I'm done with RockBand. Thanks, but no thanks. This issue wouldn't even be that big a deal if the original guitars would've worked properly.

[xlr8shun]

I'm just about fed up with this. I'm thinking about putting my used drums and everything on ebay, and once I get my replacement guitar in the mail (120 years from now), I'll put that up on ebay too. I'm done with RockBand. Thanks, but no thanks. This issue wouldn't even be that big a deal if the original guitars would've worked properly.

does that mean you're going to stop posting and shut it?

*crosses fingers*

[Maggot_Brain]

This might be a little different forum than you're used to. It's not the free for all insult-athon you might have thought.

[Super_Chicken]

I'm just about fed up with this. I'm thinking about putting my used drums and everything on ebay, and once I get my replacement guitar in the mail (120 years from now), I'll put that up on ebay too. I'm done with RockBand. Thanks, but no thanks. This issue wouldn't even be that big a deal if the original guitars would've worked properly.

Why are you selling Rock Band rather than GH3. It seems like Activision may be the one behind it all. Last time I checked the developers here are actually keeping constant contact with us.

Another rumor from the IGN podcast is that Activision is trying to also force HMX to remove the compability on 360. :confused: Not sure how valid this rumor is in comparision to preventing this patch.

[capasdilemma]

Sigh... another night of my friends being underwhelmed with the three-man band. My bassist tags in and out with the guitarist but it's such a pain in the ass it eventually becomes,"nah you go ahead... you're doing pretty good anyway." The fact that the game simply CANNOT be played with four people as is the point is just too damn much to swallow. I want an update on the information about the damned patch.

Ahem. Having worked in this industry and these sorts of industries, and in *a much more* sensitive field, all in public relations capacities, I can tell you, there are people at Harmonix dying to tell you what's holding up the patch. There are people at MTV Games dying to tell you. There are people at EA and even Sony dying to tell you.

The problem is whether it's legal rumblings, QA problems, distribution problems, you name it. There are good reasons on all these points and many more to say, It's coming, no comment on when, no comment on cause of delay. Telling you when means they know when the delay will be resolved and they very likely don't. Telling you the cause of this delay may well compound the issue and delay it even further.

This is called modern Western capitalism. This is how modern Western capitalism is played. It's a pain for the consumer because it perpetuates the secrecy, the no-comment behavior. It's a joy for the consumer because it's the system establishing an environment in which a bunch of talented individuals form companies to design and sell game consoles, and create and sell games like Rock Band, and publish and distribute these games. And making a living at it, because you don't really keep on with game console designing and the game software creating when you're living under a bridge wondering from where your next meal will come.

The system is flawed. It is imperfect. It is thus far the best system we've managed to implement -- and I'm not talking only about the good old US of A; it's most of the world participating in this system. I'd much prefer a system less flawed. I wouldn't even hope for perfect. So if everyone would like to spend the time while waiting for this patch studying up on free market economies and various areas of civil law, and in this particular case, theories of software design and publishing, I'd suggest we go do that, meet back here, put our heads together and write a document -- it's going to be a *very long* document -- on our best plans to implement a better system. Then see if we can't get that system implemented.

But if we do that, I wouldn't worry so much about this patch for Rock Band. By the time we're even half-done designing our new system, Rock Band 10 will be out, controllers and their console interface standards will have changed a couple times at least, and this particular patch will be a moot point.

[Makomachine]

does that mean you're going to stop posting and shut it?

*crosses fingers*

There are quite a few that would be gone if half of these 'threats' were anything more than adolescent tempor tantrums. Don't get me wrong, I'm frustrated too - but you couldn't pry this game out of my fingers if you tried. Great concept, slightly flawed execution in the early stages. By February this will be a distant memory for most people - with stand alone controllers, more DLC, and the few peripheral bugs worked out for the early adopters. Rock band rocks - I just want my bass guitar...

[capasdilemma]

Why are you selling Rock Band rather than GH3. It seems like Activision may be the one behind it all. Last time I checked the developers here are actually keeping constant contact with us.

Another rumor from the IGN podcast is that Activision is trying to also force HMX to remove the compability on 360. :confused: Not sure how valid this rumor is in comparision to preventing this patch.

Can anyone *prove* Activision has anything to do with this at all? With delaying patch? If you could *prove* something, then you'd have a whole different game, as games consumers in numbers could influence Activision. But Activision is a very likely target for the rumor mill as they are the only company with a significant vested interest in this. All they've done so far is decline working HMX/MTV/EA to make RB controllers compatible with their GH3. That's just a business-model decision. They want to sell first-party peripherals, and they believe that will be the most profitable. HMX/MTV/EA seems to have adopted the model that encouraging third-party peripheral sales will ultimately lead to more RB revenue. That's it. That's all we know.

The rumor that Activision is holding up the PS3 patch maybe makes a little sense, as if they engineered into an otherwise fairly standard PS3 controller -- albeit guitar-shaped and specific to their game -- something that "locks" it from working with some or all other games, they may be able to claim an attempt to reverse engineer the "lock", which may run afoul of various legal protections. But the rumor that they're trying to make HMX/MTV/EA remove from RB compatibility with existing GH 360 controllers distributed by another company sounds like so much dribble to me. I don't know on what they'd build their legal foundation. Certainly there was nothing engineered into those controllers -- if indeed there is indeed anything engineered into the GH3 PS3 controllers -- to "lock" them to GH2, so they can't claim any reverse engineering. They're just 360 controllers. Lots of companies make third-party 360 controllers. They may have picked up the rights to the controller design when they bought RO, I don't know, but to stake out ground that HMX/MTV/EA can't make use of them as they are for RB, from a legal standpoint, that's just tomfoolery.

*Confirm* this has anything to do with Activision and then you have something. Activision's first-party and perhaps "locked" business model for controllers may make sense at the moment, but if people who buy their games bring enough pressure to bear, no amount of proprietary revenue might make up for loss of sales on the rest of their catalog due to customer backlash. But if no one will confirm it, and I doubt anyone will, nothing short of a motion for injunction filed in a court of public record will confirm it, so all you have is rampant speculation. And as I said, they're a likely target for rumors at the moment. At this point it's not fair to HMX/MTV/EA *or* Activision to "boycott" their products or what have you, as all you have to go on is tantamount to clothesline gossip.

[GHudston]

I find it difficult to believe that Activision would want to block this patch, anyone with half a brain would realize that this patch would just take advantage of the shortage of strat controllers and sell more copies of GH3.

I have a feeling it's something a little less sinister, hopefully they'll tell us soon.

[Makomachine]

I find it difficult to believe that Activision would want to block this patch, anyone with half a brain would realize that this patch would just take advantage of the shortage of strat controllers and sell more copies of GH3.

I have a feeling it's something a little less sinister, hopefully they'll tell us soon.

Could be something as simple as having to fit into Sony's release schedule through the PSN network as to not interfere with what they already have in the works. Everyone is speculating but we really DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA what the hold up is on this. Let's just let Harmonix work the issue - and hopefully they can get more news to us sooner rather than later. I for one would go and purchase GH3 today if I just knew the patch is definitely coming and something has not halted it's release indefinitely.

[MF-PO'd]

Why are you selling Rock Band rather than GH3. It seems like Activision may be the one behind it all. Last time I checked the developers here are actually keeping constant contact with us.

Another rumor from the IGN podcast is that Activision is trying to also force HMX to remove the compability on 360. :confused: Not sure how valid this rumor is in comparision to preventing this patch.

I personally don't think the 360 rumour is true, but if Activision is actually screwing over the PS3 owners, then I would greedily like to see them try to pursue this 360 blocking motion. Not that I have anything against the 360 or its owners, but this would add more pissed off people to the table to put pressure on Activision. Like I said, I don't see it being true, and Microsoft would probably step in and disallow this from happening based on their controller standards.

Now, in terms of this confirmation about Activision, they have had plenty of time now to deny this claim. That's enough for me unless anything further comes to light. I would gladly change my tune, but surely they have heard these accusations by now. If it were a lie, any intelligent company would issue a statement denying the claim. They haven't.

With regard to Sony, yes, it's entirely possible the patch is held up with them. It's not related to the regular PSN release schedule though. That has been confirmed. They do take a fair bit of time with patches though. As I mentioned in another thread, the Assassin's Creed patch was finally just made available yesterday. It was announced about last weekend, and Ubisoft even said at the time that it's currently going through SCEA's approval process. Take a look at Guitar Hero 3 as well. They made a post on Nov. 28 on their boards that a new patch was now available, pending approval from Sony. Still nothing.

When I consider that, I guess there's a chance that's what has happened with this patch. I still tend to lean with the idea that Activision is holding it up, but there is a slight possibility that Sony will just approve this thing next week, and we'll all be happy. It's hard to be an optimist anymore with all the crap I've been through with this game, but I'll try.

[Super_Chicken]

But if it was Sony holding up the patch, I'm sure HMX Sean would be able to comment something. The way it seems like they have his mouth taped shut, which usually indicates it's due to a legality, rather then Sony's approval.

[capasdilemma]

I find it difficult to believe that Activision would want to block this patch, anyone with half a brain would realize that this patch would just take advantage of the shortage of strat controllers and sell more copies of GH3.

I have a feeling it's something a little less sinister, hopefully they'll tell us soon.

Agreed. In theory. But Microsoft would have likely sold more Zune players had they made them work with their already established and selling Plays For Sure DRM format, and not only with electronic distribution via their Zune store. But they went with a closed model. (Apple of course uses a similar model with their iTunes store, but they had no pre-existing DRM format in the market, and they were so well entrenched by the time Zune was released, their (formerly) closed model for electronic distribution is kind of a moot point.)

But sometimes you start off with the idea that to maximize revenue and exceed the competition you must zealously guard what you consider to be your proprietary format or intellectual property. And then due to circumstances -- for example, a long wait for non-bundled Rock Band guitar controllers -- it becomes to your benefit to release that grip and take advantage of the situation. But you don't. Your grip is so tight, you're so dead fixed on what you thought was the best solution for your business, you can't let go and adapt.

There are other factors to consider as well. DLC is a big one. Certainly Activision would likely love to sell plenty of extra GH3 bundles because people who bought Rock Band want a compatible guitar controller. But there's money in DLC, too, likely a lot of revenue there. Activision doesn't want GH3 to become the game you buy for the guitar controller to use with Rock Band, you play the bundled GH3 title because, well, it's there, but you reserve your DLC purchases for Rock Band.

Complicated marketing matters at work. Still and all, you are right: the lowly Internet rumor is the weakest foundation upon which to build rage with anyone or any entity over anything. To blame Activision, I'd have to read Activision's on-the-record confirmation, or a well-sourced report that Activision has taken the matter to the courts and requested some sort of injunction, and that request is in the public record and thereby verifies they asked for it.

At this point, I don't blame anyone. Not Activision, as I can confirm nothing. Not HMX/MTV/EA, as they never specifically stipulated that Activision's GH3 PS3 controller would work as a controller for Rock Band. They said controllers following PS3 controller standards would work. A lot of the games press then in knee-jerk fashion interpreted this to mean the GH3 PS3 controller would work. But Activision made no statement as to the PS3-controller standards compliance of its GH3 PS3 controller.

I got what I paid for, what I was promised: RB Strat, RB microphone, RB drums, RB game. They all work quite fine. Yes, I'd like to use my GH3 PS3 controller with RB, but I was not promised any such thing, and I knew there would be a wait for extra RB controllers to become available when I bought RB.

[MF-PO'd]

But if it was Sony holding up the patch, I'm sure HMX Sean would be able to comment something. The way it seems like they have his mouth taped shut, which usually indicates it's due to a legality, rather then Sony's approval.

That's right. If Activision wasn't crying behind the scenes and causing trouble, I'm sure Sean would easily just tell us that the patch is being approved by SCEA right now (as the other companies have). Instead, we get the cryptic messages the patch is with Sony... but leaving out the important details.

[capasdilemma]

Now, in terms of this confirmation about Activision, they have had plenty of time now to deny this claim. That's enough for me unless anything further comes to light. I would gladly change my tune, but surely they have heard these accusations by now. If it were a lie, any intelligent company would issue a statement denying the claim. They haven't.

That seems to make sense. But you can't use a negative to prove a positive in these circumstances. And there is an established PR methodology that does not respond to rumors true or false, to confirm or deny, as the theory goes, this only feeds their firm's future inclusion in the grist of the rumor mill.

Activision's lack of denial, I'm afraid, means nothing.

[capasdilemma]

That's right. If Activision wasn't crying behind the scenes and causing trouble, I'm sure Sean would easily just tell us that the patch is being approved by SCEA right now (as the other companies have). Instead, we get the cryptic messages the patch is with Sony... but leaving out the important details.

Again, here, yes, other developers have stated their patches, DLC, etc. are hung up with SCEA or whichever console maker. But that's not necessarily wise, to blame the maker of the platform required to use your product. It might be wise to just keep your mouth shut, let people make their assumptions, rather than bring down the wrath of the platform owner when you turn their customers against them.

[MF-PO'd]

That seems to make sense. But you can't use a negative to prove a positive in these circumstances. And there is an established PR methodology that does not respond to rumors true or false, to confirm or deny, as the theory goes, this only feeds their firm's future inclusion in the grist of the rumor mill.

Activision's lack of denial, I'm afraid, means nothing.

You're right that it certainly doesn't confirm anything. However, I like to take a realist approach and use what I consider to be common sense. The 'innocent until proven guilty' theory doesn't fly with me. I would like Activision or someone to prove this wrong. It is certainly in the company's best benefit to debunk any negative rumours floating around about you. If the rumour didn't make logical sense, given all the other information we have, I wouldn't give it much consideration. However, it does make sense, and that's all I have to go on at this time. I don't want to discount other possibilities, but if I'm assigning percentages, this one gets the biggest slice of the pie right now.

[MF-PO'd]

Again, here, yes, other developers have stated their patches, DLC, etc. are hung up with SCEA or whichever console maker. But that's not necessarily wise, to blame the maker of the platform required to use your product. It might be wise to just keep your mouth shut, let people make their assumptions, rather than bring down the wrath of the platform owner when you turn their customers against them.

I do appreciate the honesty from the developers as a consumer. I don't know if they are so much blaming SCEA as informing. The situation is what it is: The patch is currently being approved. I really like that approach compared with all the CIA secrecy. In this particular case though, if there legalities, then I understand. If there were no legalities, I would like Harmonix to just tell us straight up that the patch is currently in the approval process. I believe they would take that stance if it were true. However, I think they are not doing that because of the legalities.

[mookie25]

I'm taking bets on how long it'll take before we get a statement that actually offers VALUABLE information.

I say, the earliest is Monday afternoon.

[SoulScreme]

I'm taking bets on how long it'll take before we get a statement that actually offers VALUABLE information.

I say, the earliest is Monday afternoon.

At this rate, valuable information won't be here til January.

[neveroutnumbered]

i wonder what sort damage this will cause for Activision. But i too am waiting patiently for the patch.
One can hope though

[Bakkster]

I'm taking bets on how long it'll take before we get a statement that actually offers VALUABLE information.

I say, the earliest is Monday afternoon.

Wow, that's a good bet. Maybe because it's the weekend! How astute of an observation ;)

[capasdilemma]

I'm taking bets on how long it'll take before we get a statement that actually offers VALUABLE information.

I say, the earliest is Monday afternoon.

Frankly, I think in this case you'll get no statement, the patch will just appear and it either will or will not support GH3 PS3 guitars as controllers, or a statement, "The patch is now available." and it either will or won't support those GH3 controllers.

The games industry is rather in-bred. Today Jim works for Bandai Namco, tomorrow he works for Midway, next year he has a great, top-paying spot at Nintendo of America. No one wants to out the competition as unfriendly to consumers because quite sooner than one thinks, one wants to work for the competition. If there is indeed something wicked at the bottom of this, and some action winds up filed in a court of public record, you'll hear some statement from one or several parties, only after a reporter stumbles on the filing.

That and the Rock Band team, from development, on this and future titles, to distribution, for this and *many* current and future titles, is dependent to some large or small degree upon SCEA. So they're likely to do what SCEA asks as far as divulging information. Sure, it seems, say, Activision *is* behind this delay it would serve Sony to put it off on Activision. But Sony isn't particularly looking forward to reading a future press release entitled, "Activision and Infinity Ward, Along With Microsoft, Proudly Announce 'Call of Duty 5', Only On Xbox 360 and Windows PC."

[Dissent]

You make a lot of good points capasdilemma. None of them are very reassuring but likely accurate. I would say this however, some sort of effort needs to be made on the part of these companies to keep consumers who are spending this kind of money moderately informed.

Spending near $200 to come away with something that is so terribly incomplete is a burn consumers do not forget easily. Game companies seem to be getting more and more stand-offish with their fans all the time and in the face of screw-overs like this one I think they can expect some blowback if they don't open a sincere and helpful line of communication very soon.

[capasdilemma]

None of them are very reassuring but likely accurate.

You know, I get that reaction more than you'd ever believe!

Just so you're aware, I'm no fan myself of the pinstriped PR curtain in consumer relations. But I know that pink elephant is often in the room, and I sometimes feel compelled to point it out.

[mookie25]

We all know that if this patch isn't ever released, we're all going to go out, like zombies, and buy another SG despite the fact that we'll have a perfectly working LP collecting dust. Thanks, Activision, Sony, HMX, Jesus Christ, The New York Rangers, Wayne Newton or whoever the hell is behind this dumb-ass delay. We deserve a damned update. A REAL update.

[RogerTarin]

I just returned my gh bundled Les Paul today, it was getting really dusty already and i just used the money to buy myself another REAL guitar lol tired of the same thing every single day, at least rock band still offers a lot more replay value to keep me going for a while, gh3 it's in the past...;)

BTW thanks for replacing that guitar ea

[Ventura]

We all know that if this patch isn't ever released, we're all going to go out, like zombies, and buy another SG despite the fact that we'll have a perfectly working LP collecting dust.

That's the thing. What do they hope to achieve?

PS3 owners are going to get their guitars anyway, one way or another. We may have to wait till the new year for EA to get their act together and start selling reliable controllers in standalone packages, but it will happen.

Activision are willing to spite HMX/EA so badly, they'll risk really pissing off a lot of their customers to do it. They'll take a cut to do it aswell, because if the LP were compatible, not only would RogerTarin above probably not have returned his bundle, but I'd have bought one by now too.

[MF-PO'd]

That's the thing. What do they hope to achieve?

PS3 owners are going to get their guitars anyway, one way or another. We may have to wait till the new year for EA to get their act together and start selling reliable controllers in standalone packages, but it will happen.

Activision are willing to spite HMX/EA so badly, they'll risk really pissing off a lot of their customers to do it. They'll take a cut to do it aswell, because if the LP were compatible, not only would RogerTarin above probably not have returned his bundle, but I'd have bought one by now too.

Bingo!

I'm quite frankly floored that Activision can be this stubborn and either not see this or not care. Additional profit? Nah, go away! We don't want your business! If you're not going to play GH3 only, and you're a PS3 owner, you're not good enough for us.

[xlr8shun]

its cool, activision just made my decision easy, returned gh3, and wont buy gh4. i also took cod4 to gamestop...

their loss not mine.

[mookie25]

Although it hasn't been confirmed that Acti*****in' is definitely behind this delay, just the fact that there have been reports that they COULD BE hurts their image. They need to release a statement denying their involvement, but at this point it seems like it's too late.

[Ninjalo]

http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/08/red-octane-vp-excuses-axe-incompatibility-blames-rock-band-issu/

[mookie25]

^^^ That RO dude is flat out dumb.

[BugMeNot]

i just bought both and the guitar hero 3 guitar works for most of it. I only have problems with the red button and I don't have problems with that all the time.

I think it happens after using the wammy bar.

[Phrank-E]

I'm in the "I'd by a GH3 bundle if I could use the LP on Rock Band camp". If they don't want the money then I won't give it to them. Simple.

[SoulScreme]

I'm in the "I bought GH3 to use the LP with RB" camp and I'm pissed at all parties involved.

-1UP and IGN stated the compatibility multiples times. Activision, Harmonix, or both should have made an effort to get accurate information out there. Clearly, if the guitar did not work at launch, they knew this before hand. In particular, Harmonix's lack of clarification on the topic is an implicit agreement to it. If you run a company an see websites publishing incorrect information, you have to correct them. If they didn't read the stuff, they dropped the ball there too.

-Activision is being painted in a horrible light after Destructoid's article. If they want to save face, they need to come forward with something.

-Harmonix made a statement, then silenced people's discussion of it, and are now refusing to speak. This makes the user base unhappy and breed conspiracy theories and displeasure with Harmonix.

For me, the bottom line is that, while I'm unhappy with Activision, Haromix isn't treating me much better. I, as a customer, feel like none of the companies care about my investment or my happiness with the product I bought. This is the Apple mentality of not listening to how customers want to be treated, but convincing the customers they want what you are giving them. In the end, this whole mess is a series of horrible business decisions by everybody involved. If it doesn't change soon, I will not be buying games form EITHER company in the future. Frankly, if Harmonix doesn't wise up, I may stop purchasing DLC as well, since that is where they plan to make the most money from Rock Band.

To those who want to accept it, you need to wake up. Allowing these companies to walk all over you and not demanding a higher quality of customer service will only lead to the companies becoming lazy and the quality of service degrading over time. The customers need to stand up and let these companies know that we will no sit idly by and accept sub-par or unsatisfactory service. Especially not when we paid top dollar for a product that is fraught with defects, half-truths, and insufficient support for one of the two consoles it is on. It would be one thing if PS3 owners had paid less and thus gotten less functionality, however, we did not. In this current age is is inexcusable to screw users because they didn't use the right console. If a DVD didn't work on Pioneer DVD players the same way it working on Samsung DVD players, the customer would be rightfully upset. This situation, while more complex, is not any different at the end of the day.

I'm sorry for the lengthy post, but I think that far too many people are willing to accept this silence policy. Customer have a right to demand quality service from companies, especially when the company used to be communicative and has only recently retreated into this mode.