Why it's good TB:RB is standalone [Archive] - Rock Band Forums // Rock Band®

jeccaneko

06-07-2009, 10:56 PM

I've seen some people complain about the fact The Beatles: Rock Band is not exportable, you can't play current RB DLC on it, and it'll only worth with Beatles DLC. Well, here's a few reasons it's good that it is standalone!

tl;dr people can just read the stuff in bold to get my point.

1) If Rock Band 2 (and its DLC) was exportable to The Beatles: Rock Band, that would fracture the community. You would have some people playing on RB2, some playing on TB:RB, and that would kill the whole platform concept that I am convinced HMX still wants to keep.

2) If The Beatles: Rock Band (and its DLC) was exportable to Rock Band 2, it would not support harmonies. The RB2 engine simply is not programmed to do this. Thus it would kill part of the fun of playing these songs.

3) The Beatles: Rock Band will most likely help the RB platform grow. The Beatles will inspire people to pick up TB:RB. That might get people so into it they want to get into the main game. If the main game's DLC was supported in TB:RB, it would not encourage converts and you'd still have that community fracturing like I mentioned in #1.

4) The Beatles: Rock Band is a whole new game, just with Rock Band gameplay. It is meant to give you the whole Beatles experience. It is NOT meant to be traditional sort of Rock Band. That's why you don't have your own characters. That's why you go to famous Beatles-related locations, the dreamscapes, etc.

TB:RB is not meant to be part of the platform. I think part of it might be for licensing reasons (only way HMX could get the songs), part of it for technical limitations, and part of it for that experience HMX wanted to give people.

I understand that some people are disappointed that it is not exportable. If things like The Beatles themselves, the harmonies, the whole experience HMX put into the game... if those don't interest you, then perhaps this game isn't for you.

This game is not meant to be an expansion pack. It is not meant to be Rock Band as we know it.

I'm done now.

justin19954

06-07-2009, 11:01 PM

TL;DR jkjk. I like your points and I agree with them.

madcow36

06-07-2009, 11:02 PM

Well said my friend. I agree:)

afterstasis

06-07-2009, 11:03 PM

i'm still definitely getting the game (and very much anticipating the new features almost as much as the songs themselves), but i'm not going to deny being bummed that the songs aren't exportable.

i'd even be fine with losing the harmonies when playing the songs on RB2... i'd probably mostly play the songs on TB:RB for that feature when with a full group, but i'd LOVE to have the option.

RMThompson

06-07-2009, 11:05 PM

Great answers to a seemingly overzealous fanboy attack.

It just simply doesn't make sense.

cherokeesam

06-07-2009, 11:07 PM

1) If Rock Band 2 (and its DLC) was exportable to The Beatles: Rock Band, that would fracture the community. You would have some people playing on RB2, some playing on TB:RB, and that would kill the whole platform concept that I am convinced HMX still wants to keep.

Whereas if TBRB was exportable to RB, the community would remain INTACT, and people would be jamming to The Beatles in their setlists as well as all the rest of the bands.

2) If The Beatles: Rock Band (and its DLC) was exportable to Rock Band 2, it would not support harmonies. The RB2 engine simply is not programmed to do this. Thus it would kill part of the fun of playing these songs.

You can still play The Beatles just as well in traditional Bass-Guitar-Drums-Vox mode without having to sing harmonies. But the rest of the band could still feel free to sing along.

3) The Beatles: Rock Band will most likely help the RB platform grow. The Beatles will inspire people to pick up TB:RB. That might get people so into it they want to get into the main game. If the main game's DLC was supported in TB:RB, it would not encourage converts and you'd still have that community fracturing like I mentioned in #1.

And if/when TBRB "converts" come to RB2 and find out that they'll have to leave their precious Beatles setlists behind on a separate disc, they're not likely to be pleased. At all.

4) The Beatles: Rock Band is a whole new game, just with Rock Band gameplay. It is meant to give you the whole Beatles experience. It is NOT meant to be traditional sort of Rock Band. That's why you don't have your own characters. That's why you go to famous Beatles-related locations, the dreamscapes, etc.

Yup, just like in GHAerosmith and GHMetallica.
Which I recall these same HMX fanboys lambasting for *precisely* the same limitations that TBRB is now saddled with.

TB:RB is not meant to be part of the platform. I think part of it might be for licensing reasons (only way HMX could get the songs), part of it for technical limitations, and part of it for that experience HMX wanted to give people.

Or, it could be simply that The Beatles are arrogant, selfish bastards who don't want to mix with the "hoi polloi" of Rock Band (bands like The Who, Bob Dylan, The Rolling Stones, CCR, The Zombies....I mean, can you *imagine*? *tsk* :rolleyes: )

I understand that some people are disappointed that it is not exportable. If things like The Beatles themselves, the harmonies, the whole experience HMX put into the game... if those don't interest you, then perhaps this game isn't for you.

They do interest me. Long enough to rent it for the few hours it'll take to complete the career mode. Then it's back to Blockbuster, and I'm back to playing RB and supporting the whole music platform idea that seems to have fallen on the backburner at HMX.

This game is not meant to be an expansion pack. It is not meant to be Rock Band as we know it.

Yup....just like Aerosmith and Metallica are "not meant to be expansion packs." And yet....they ARE expansion packs. Just like TB:RB.

I'm done now.

Me too. :)

Soja

06-07-2009, 11:17 PM

An honorable intent, Jecca, but those who want to ***** about it will ***** about it regardless of merit or reason.

jeccaneko

06-07-2009, 11:21 PM

Whereas if TBRB was exportable to RB, the community would remain INTACT, and people would be jamming to The Beatles in their setlists as well as all the rest of the bands.

That is true. But I wonder if this is partly a licensing issue other than a technical one (harmonies). I did mention that at one point.

You can still play The Beatles just as well in traditional Bass-Guitar-Drums-Vox mode without having to sing harmonies. But the rest of the band could still feel free to sing along.

Yes, but it doesn't do anything for the game. When I play bass I already do backup vocals unofficially. The harmonies is an advertised feature of TB:RB.

And if/when TBRB "converts" come to RB2 and find out that they'll have to leave their precious Beatles setlists behind on a separate disc, they're not likely to be pleased. At all.

Not necessarily. You forget us Rock Band players are spoiled. Before RB1's export, no music game ever exported before.

Yup, just like in GHAerosmith and GHMetallica.
Which I recall these same HMX fanboys lambasting for *precisely* the same limitations that TBRB is now saddled with.

Those are expansion packs. They work EXACTLY the same as the games they are using the engines of (GH:A being GH3's engine and GH:M being GHWT's engine). There are no limitations other than perhaps licensing and the fact that Activision/Neversoft is trying to make you buy the disc. That is their business philsophy, to sell discs. You can see this in the way they choose to put out a ton of GH games and not really being serious about releasing DLC.

Or, it could be simply that The Beatles are arrogant, selfish bastards who don't want to mix with the "hoi polloi" of Rock Band (bands like The Who, Bob Dylan, The Rolling Stones, CCR, The Zombies....I mean, can you *imagine*? *tsk* :rolleyes: )

I know. I meant this in the licensing bit.

They do interest me. Long enough to rent it for the few hours it'll take to complete the career mode. Then it's back to Blockbuster, and I'm back to playing RB and supporting the whole music platform idea that seems to have fallen on the backburner at HMX.

It's not supposed to be part of the platform. It's a different game, just given the RB name for marketing reasons.

Yup....just like Aerosmith and Metallica are "not meant to be expansion packs." And yet....they ARE expansion packs. Just like TB:RB.

I discussed this above.

I'm not trying to attack anybody who is disappointed, like you obviously are cherokeesam. I am just pointing these things out. I understand you're upset. I was at first too.

I don't consider myself an HMX fangirl by any means. I do not buy any video game just based on the fact a certain developer makes it (well, I do this for one developer only nowadays - that's Bioware though). In fact, I was still on the fence about this game and extremely iffy about it until I saw how the game played thanks to E3 videos. I don't even really know many Beatles songs but it looks fun to me.

I'm still a little disappointed I can't play these songs when I play the other ones, but as a music game fan I will say, again, that we are spoiled by the fact RB1 exported and that HMX has supported the platform. All other music games make their bucks by selling more discs. You are forced to disc swap. I've got hundreds of DDR songs over PS1 and PS2, but guess what? They're spread over about 10 discs! This is common for music games.

cherokeesam

06-07-2009, 11:29 PM

Super Bass

06-07-2009, 11:58 PM

I think I'll throw in my perspective before the angry kids tear you to shreds (unfortunately :().

I've seen some people complain about the fact The Beatles: Rock Band is not exportable, you can't play current RB DLC on it, and it'll only worth with Beatles DLC. Well, here's a few reasons it's good that it is standalone!

tl;dr people can just read the stuff in bold to get my point.

1) If Rock Band 2 (and its DLC) was exportable to The Beatles: Rock Band, that would fracture the community. You would have some people playing on RB2, some playing on TB:RB, and that would kill the whole platform concept that I am convinced HMX still wants to keep.

Technically, this game WILL fracture part of the community (I expect MOST of the people that end up buying this game will be new to Rock Band). If people aren't playing RB2, they'll be playing TB:RB (so, either way, unless you ALSO have a copy of TB:RB, you won't be able to play with those individuals for a while--a least a month before the initial novelty wears off for them).

And anyone who thought the RB2 stuff would be playable on this game:

:p

Which brings me to:

2) If The Beatles: Rock Band (and its DLC) was exportable to Rock Band 2, it would not support harmonies. The RB2 engine simply is not programmed to do this. Thus it would kill part of the fun of playing these songs.

The harmonies not being supported is a given (export or no export). IF there was an export, that would at least be the ONE thing to keep people playing the Beatles disc--you can only do three-person harmonies on THAT game. As far as playing the songs in RB2, I don't see why that's not possible (like RB1 songs played in RB2). Minus the possible technological problems of the interface (which none of us knows about--good or bad), it comes down to one simple question:

What happens when you only have ONE microphone?

The same thing that happens when you only have ONE microphone in RB2. :cool:

3) The Beatles: Rock Band will most likely help the RB platform grow. The Beatles will inspire people to pick up TB:RB. That might get people so into it they want to get into the main game. If the main game's DLC was supported in TB:RB, it would not encourage converts and you'd still have that community fracturing like I mentioned in #1.

The problem is that once the new players to the platform have seen how great a game from HMX plays out, they'll realize that they can't play those Beatles tracks in RB2 or maybe even RB3 (things aren't DEFINITE, but all signs point to "when Hell freezes over"). They'll be all happy about the game and realize that it's JUST like Guitar Hero (some people HONESTLY don't know that there IS a difference between RB and GH). If the game had exportability, newcomers could experience The Beatles and then transfer the songs to RB2 to catch up to the same 84 songs and other DLC that many of us have been playing for a while.

Show Grandma, Aunt Sue, or whoever, that the Harmonix brand is ONE great library of music that can be built up as time goes on.

"Aunt Sue, if you liked the Beatles game, you can also play most of the RB1 songs along with them in RB2."

Aunt Sue sees that she has bought a game from a company that is fleshing out great music to create a phenomenal gaming experience.

However, without the export, Aunt Sue is stuck switching discs to play The Beatles (and without the export, she doesn't know that RB is a platform at ALL).

4) The Beatles: Rock Band is a whole new game, just with Rock Band gameplay. It is meant to give you the whole Beatles experience. It is NOT meant to be traditional sort of Rock Band. That's why you don't have your own characters. That's why you go to famous Beatles-related locations, the dreamscapes, etc.

I'm sure most people wanted to play AS The Beatles, but I ALSO think that they wanted to make sure that their $60 was well spent. I think the music ALONE is worth 60 bucks, but the experience...well I'm guessing the average Joe can beat the game in about six hours (and that's probably STRETCHING the game out). So is six hours worth $60? THAT question is quite subjective. If you're like me and you don't have anyone else that is even REMOTELY interested in singing (much less harmonizing), an export at LEAST numbs the sting to my wallet.

TB:RB is not meant to be part of the platform. I think part of it might be for licensing reasons (only way HMX could get the songs), part of it for technical limitations, and part of it for that experience HMX wanted to give people

My ONLY issue with this is that something wasn’t said before E3. Everyone is twisting the comment from last year, when we all learned that the Beatles game was “not a Rock Band game.” But since it sounds so vague, some people took that to mean “not RB3” instead of “not transferable to RB2.” I only wish that THAT had been clarified. People are now saying that Harmonix “said from the beginning that it would be a standalone,” but “not a Rock Band game” has more than one meaning. Harmonix DID NOT say that the game would be a standalone, but they ALSO didn’t say that it would export. One simple statement way back when (around…oh…October) would’ve softened the blow some felt last week and the crying wouldn’t be so bad (someone will ALWAYS be crying on the forums, but at least there would be less of it).

I understand that some people are disappointed that it is not exportable. If things like The Beatles themselves, the harmonies, the whole experience HMX put into the game... if those don't interest you, then perhaps this game isn't for you.

This game is not meant to be an expansion pack. It is not meant to be Rock Band as we know it.

I think more people are thinking of the game as a 60-dollar rental, plain and simple. That’s why there’s such uproar. Add the fact that there is now separate DLC between two HMX titles and Harmonix has now fueled the fire for the people who stood by the “platform” mentality that they upheld. I think it sucks that all the songs can’t just be played in one game. I understand where everyone is coming from, and I think the no export issue is an important one.

Will I buy the game? Sure…eventually. But right now it comes down to this:

Do I want to spend $60 on at least 30 new DLC tracks that will be playable in all future RB titles (I hope)?

OR

Do I want to spend $60 on a game that I KNOW I will enjoy but will give me buyer’s remorse by the end of the first week?

Without the export, I'm SERIOUSLY undecided (since I mostly play Rock Band 2 solo, the harmonies don't do anything for me—and I don’t even want to THINK about the online multiplayer on this thing compared to RB2) ?

I'm done now.
So am I. Great points!

Soja

06-08-2009, 12:02 AM

We may be "spoiled," but that's nobody's fault but HMX's. They're the ones who championed the unified platform; they're the ones who (rightfully) bragged about being the ones who let you bring your setlist from the original over to the sequel.

You can't blame us for believing HMX's promises, can you? If that makes us gullible for actually believing HMX when they said they'd never make a standalone band game, or deviate from the core platform, then what does that make those of you who blindly believe everything HMX is now promising you in TBRB, or Lego, or anything else?Oh right, it's Harmonix's fault that we've become complacent and demanding in our expectations, even if it's not legally or agreeably possible. :rolleyes:

I'm sure The Beatles would have gladly gone over to Nevervision's camp if Harmonix didn't make some concessions to their terms.

And I don't see how you're still getting off on the 'no xportz' argument: FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, Harmonix said it was NOT going to HAPPEN.

cherokeesam

06-08-2009, 12:11 AM

Oh right, it's Harmonix's fault that we've become complacent and demanding in our expectations, even if it's not legally or agreeably possible. :rolleyes:

How would exportation be "legally impossible"? Was the export of RB1 to RB2, or AC/DC Live to RB2, or the pseudo-export (i.e., DLC to be released later) of "Unplugged" to RB2 "legally impossible?"

I'm sure The Beatles would have gladly gone over to Nevervision's camp if Harmonix didn't make some concessions to their terms.

And then we would've had Guitar Hero: The Beatles. Which, apart from crappier graphics and circles instead of rectangles on the song charts, would have been virtually identical to The Beatles: Rock Band in every way. i.e: standalone band game, non-exportable, 45-song short list, rent-don't-buy.

kiggidykev

06-08-2009, 12:13 AM

I'm sure it's a good idea in the long run, but my heart is still broken from not having it all on the same songlist. :(

Soja

06-08-2009, 12:27 AM

How would exportation be "legally impossible"? Was the export of RB1 to RB2, or AC/DC Live to RB2, or the pseudo-export (i.e., DLC to be released later) of "Unplugged" to RB2 "legally impossible?"Legally impossible because one of the consenting parties refused to offer up their catalog for that kind of distribution. Thus doing it would be a breach of contract, ugly lawsuit follows, et al.

And then we would've had Guitar Hero: The Beatles. Which, apart from crappier graphics and circles instead of rectangles on the song charts, would have been virtually identical to The Beatles: Rock Band in every way. i.e: standalone band game, non-exportable, 45-song short list, rent-don't-buy.Doubtful. Nevervision's past few band games and one upcoming band game are pretty telling of how they would've handled it. They would've put in 25 Beatles tracks and then some Simple Plan and Rise Against. :rolleyes:

Between the two companies, guess which one I would prefer to have this project in hand? The one that has, so far, given us a better product overall. And who knows if The Beatles and their estates may one day decide to allow pseudo-exportation, as you've called it, to a speculated future Rock Band release?

Seeing how exportation from RB1 was handled, I can't imagine it being much different if TB:RB suddenly had its tune changed in a similar way.

MaximumJason

06-08-2009, 12:36 AM

One thought rings in my mind about this whole situation:

Being a game designer, what is the most important thing about designing a game? MAKING SURE AS MANY PEOPLE LIKE IT AS POSSIBLE.

If you don't give consumers good reasons to play your game, your company will not make sales.

Not only this but would not the point of creating a sequel or follow up to a game be; TO MAKE IT BETTER THAN THE ORIGINAL?

Excluding worth-while features from a new game does not make any sense unless it hurt the original in some game-breaking way. In this situation, they have failed to see how seriously this will impact their current customers and I believe it will really hurt them in the long run with this release.

aspushkin

06-08-2009, 12:56 AM

Ah... GH... the useful idiot. Any time anyone levels the mildest critique or offers any sort of constructive criticism it's so easy to just say "But GH is much, much worse!"

DMBillies

06-08-2009, 01:00 AM

Super Bass... I agree with you on just about every point you've made and I think the majority of the OP's points are refutable. Below is what I think is the most important thing you posted...

The problem is that once the new players to the platform have seen how great a game from HMX plays out, they'll realize that they can't play those Beatles tracks in RB2 or maybe even RB3 (things aren't DEFINITE, but all signs point to "when Hell freezes over"). They'll be all happy about the game and realize that it's JUST like Guitar Hero (some people HONESTLY don't know that there IS a difference between RB and GH). If the game had exportability, newcomers could experience The Beatles and then transfer the songs to RB2 to catch up to the same 84 songs and other DLC that many of us have been playing for a while.

Show Grandma, Aunt Sue, or whoever, that the Harmonix brand is ONE great library of music that can be built up as time goes on.

"Aunt Sue, if you liked the Beatles game, you can also play most of the RB1 songs along with them in RB2."

Aunt Sue sees that she has bought a game from a company that is fleshing out great music to create a phenomenal gaming experience.

However, without the export, Aunt Sue is stuck switching discs to play The Beatles (and without the export, she doesn't know that RB is a platform at ALL).

HMX is in direct competition with GH. HMX gets a huge band that will attract a ton of new people to their platform and give HMX a chance to show everyone that RB is not only NOT GH Hero, but it is better. What is one thing that make RB better than GH? The ability to play all DLC and other RB releases all in one place and to cherry pick through a freakin' huge selection of DLC.

Instead HMX makes the game standalone. "Aunt Sue" doesn't see that huge collection of music in the store (if Aunt Sue does, she might say, "omg... I can get The Who, Rush, and I think Dierks Bentley is dreamy). The end result is that Aunt Sue doesn't get a chance to experience the genius that is the platform approach AT ALL.

I've said before... a platform is a better approach, it just takes time for the size of that platform to become big enough that it cannot be ignored, it takes time (and some marketing) for people to know that they can even export, it takes time for people to learn that one major way RB is different from GH is in their approach to DLC/exports. I'd say with GH saturating the market with standalone games and RB about to put out two games that reach for new markets and could have added another 100+ songs to the platform ... the time for the platform approach to come into it's own and for HMX to distance themselves from the shadow of the GH name was just about here.

ScottWAR

06-08-2009, 01:23 AM

I chose Rockband over Guitar Hero for two reasons and two reasons alone.
1- Compatibility.
2- DLC also with compatibility

Now with the release of this game, I no longer have #1. Any money I spend on RB:TB will be wasted as soon as I stop playing RB:TB and go back to playing RB simply becasue of VARIETY,....which is where #2 comes in. I trusted HMX in their promise of commitment to a platform,.....believing I wouldnt be wasting my money with songs that wouldnt be playable from 1 game to the next and DLC that would work on all games in the platform,...but yet here we are with HMX doing the exact opposite of what they promised.

quinaking

06-08-2009, 01:42 AM

JackBNimble

06-08-2009, 01:58 AM

I'm sure it's a good idea in the long run, but my heart is still broken from not having it all on the same songlist. :(

I think you got that backwards.
A good idea for the short run (ya know, untill it's been completed a few times).

Bad idea for the long run ( ya know when the novelty wears off) and you just want to play a few Beatles songs with the rest of your music.

princeofcups

06-08-2009, 02:15 AM

Excluding worth-while features from a new game does not make any sense unless it hurt the original in some game-breaking way. In this situation, they have failed to see how seriously this will impact their current customers and I believe it will really hurt them in the long run with this release.

Agreed. HMX (whoever is making the decisions these days) has gotten caught up in their own Beatles fan-boyism, and forgot about the fans who enjoy playing RB, not a simulation of the lives of the Beatles.

username7410

06-08-2009, 02:24 AM

I bought a Rock Band 2 bundle BECAUSE of TB:RB... didn't want to wait to get practiced on drums, and using teh Rock Band guitar. So, I bought it now! Wouldn't have if I didn't have the TB:RB forthcoming. Enjoying everything else Rock Band until then.

princeofcups

06-08-2009, 02:24 AM

I'm sure The Beatles would have gladly gone over to Nevervision's camp if Harmonix didn't make some concessions to their terms.

So why make the game at all? The Beatles are just one band. I won't argue about their status or their influence or their popularity, but they are just one band. There are 100 great songs out there for every great Beatles song.

GHWT is still the lesser game. But at least they are adding features, making changes for the better, and giving the fans something to look forward to. RB3 will be competing with GHWT 6, and 5 has already closed the playability gap.

I say these things because I want RB to succeed. I have a lot invested in it. However, they are not getting much more DLC money out of me until we get some idea of where the platform is going. I don't want to convert over to other guys come next fall.

chuckin

06-08-2009, 03:32 AM

I'm still a little disappointed I can't play these songs when I play the other ones, but as a music game fan I will say, again, that we are spoiled by the fact RB1 exported and that HMX has supported the platform. All other music games make their bucks by selling more discs. You are forced to disc swap. I've got hundreds of DDR songs over PS1 and PS2, but guess what? They're spread over about 10 discs! This is common for music games.

Spoiled? Maybe if RockBand had a monopoly on the rhythm game market, but last I checked there was this franchise called Guitar Hero. The best thing about competition is it breeds innovation, that's because innovation increases demand. If there were no innovation we'd all be thanking the Guitar Hero gods for blessing us with The Beatles:Guitar Hero, not to mention the game would only be played on plastic guitars with no vocal harmonies or special pearl colored drums (this is assuming RockBand didn't exist - clever huh?).

The fact that this game is being put out with RockBand in the name is meaningless to me because at the end of the day it's only going to be a rental. I'd consider buying RockBand:Abnormality if it had exportability, but I guess I'm spoiled.

Purchasing TB:RB is only showing your support for more of the same backward thinking or maybe you're just a huge fan with a lot of spare cash - if this is the case I don't blame you. What I'm really trying to say is I wish everyone would just rent the game to show the powers that be that this non-exportability issue is a clear step backward for innovation.

LoopyChew

06-08-2009, 08:59 AM

While I am disappointed about the lack of exportability (and I would've been perfectly happy if the exported version of Beatles songs didn't have harmony support), I also understand that The Beatles are very controlling of their rights, and that sometimes you have to make a deal with the devil (Yoko, Apple, Michael Jackson) in order to produce something you love.

Looking at the game at this stage, it's obvious that it's a labor of love. It's wonderful, it's marvelous, it looks like it'll be happiness in a box.

I just wish it were compatible with that other bit of happiness in a box, or, barring that, they didn't try to share its name, which (at least to me) implied the possibility of only requiring one box for happiness. that's what she said

I don't have any hopes pinned on either the game itself or its DLC becoming part of the RB platform any time soon--the amount of approval that HMX has to get for each individual track as is (from what it sounds like, regarding dreamscapes at the very least) tells you that the authoring of these tracks go through so much more red tape than typical DLC does--and, quite frankly, I'll probably end up playing RB2 more often than I am The Beatles. However, unlike the GH games, I probably actually will play this more often than not.

As for the whole thing about how lack of compatibility is going to impact the market: it won't. The Beatles are The Beatles, and there are plenty of people willing to buy that game alone. Most of the mainstream doesn't care or mind--it's only the hardcore that are affected. HMX made the right business call, and although they had to compromise with the rights holders this time around, it's obvious they're doing what they can to make up for the things in which the game lacks.

Still, the day they decide to tell me I'm dead wrong and that exportability suddenly becomes on the menu will be the day my nether regions explode with sunshine and butterflies.

NakedFeckers

06-08-2009, 09:27 AM

Holy sh*t. This might be the first thread where everyone is getting along and making valid points. I just read every post and all my points were already made.

I won't buy The Beatles for two reason: 1. I don't like The Beatles 2. It won't export
I might rent it though to check it out. Good thread.

Harumph!!!

Julio_Strikes_Back

06-08-2009, 09:30 AM

ScottyTheBody

06-08-2009, 09:38 AM

This is sarcastic right? I can't even believe this is even being argued. Of course it's not as good that it's standalone.

On one hand you have the game with all the features.

On the other hand you have the game with all the features and an export feature. If you would like to export you can and if you want it to be standalone, don't export. Simple as that. Wouldn't people rather have the choice?

I understand why the export is not EVER going to happen but to say that you wouldn't want it in the game is a little...brainwashed I guess?

T-Hybrid

06-08-2009, 09:59 AM

Whereas if TBRB was exportable to RB, the community would remain INTACT, and people would be jamming to The Beatles in their setlists as well as all the rest of the bands.
Why would the NEW game be exportable to the OLD game? If anything, RB2 should become exportable going forward. Or would you be the first in line whining when RB3 doesn't export to RB2?

And if/when TBRB "converts" come to RB2 and find out that they'll have to leave their precious Beatles setlists behind on a separate disc, they're not likely to be pleased. At all.
Or they won't care...because they're "converts" and had no idea such an exportation option even existed.

Yup, just like in GHAerosmith and GHMetallica.
Which I recall these same HMX fanboys lambasting for *precisely* the same limitations that TBRB is now saddled with.
GHA and GHM don't compare favorably at all.

1) About 25% of the setlists aren't even from those bands.
2) Neither game supports DLC. So there's no way to expand the game once you've played out the disc songs.

Or, it could be simply that The Beatles are arrogant, selfish bastards who don't want to mix with the "hoi polloi" of Rock Band (bands like The Who, Bob Dylan, The Rolling Stones, CCR, The Zombies....I mean, can you *imagine*? *tsk* :rolleyes: )
Except that we know how hard it is to get The Beatles to agree to license anything. They still aren't available for iTunes last I checked.

And both Aerosmith and Metallica (and Van Halen) have provided music games with songs in the past...so there was no need for a full game simply to get them into the genre.

I don't like the fact that they aren't exportable...but it's far beyond HMX's control this time around. Aerosmith and Metalliica? Not so much.

If you want to whine to anybody about the lack of exportation, talk to The Beatles. Because they didn't allow it. And as we know from AC/DC Live, HMX is entirely able to bring the songs into the main series if the band is willing to work with them.

David2380

06-08-2009, 10:01 AM

There is nothing good about it being a stand alone game. I understand HMX probably had to do it this way to get the beatles and I do not blame them for doing it, but there is nothing good about it. Just look at the precedent set by the AC/DC track pack. I don't know the actual numbers but I'm sure it didn't sell half as well as if it were DLC that you can pick and chose which songs you wanted. I for 1 didn't buy the disc but wouldv'e bought 6-8 songs if it were dlc.I might pick it up if it ever becomes cheap enough that I think it is worth it for those songs alone. You were even able to transfder all the songs to the platform and it didn't sell as well. The beatles game will definitely be affected by the un-transferrable factor...

T-Hybrid

06-08-2009, 10:08 AM

David2380

06-08-2009, 10:15 AM

Except AC/DC was exportable.

Though you bring up an excellent point. Everybody's crying about The Beatles not being exportable...but even being exportable didn't stop some of the same people from crying about AC/DC.

exactly...just the fact that it was a different disc affected the sales and it WAS exportable....It does make a major difference to people...

cherokeesam

06-08-2009, 10:36 AM

Or they won't care...because they're "converts" and had no idea such an exportation option even existed.

Why do people keep using this as an argument in favor of non-exportation? "If nobody even knows the option to export exists, then they must not want that option anyway." Huh? :confused:

Sure, ignorance is bliss. But if people *really* don't know they have the option to mix their RB1 and RB2 setlists, by god, tell them. I guarandamtee you the vast majority will jump on that. There's absolutely no logical reason that any gamer would reject the ability to carry over content from one game to its sequel/spinoff.

Zidane

06-08-2009, 10:49 AM

I gotta agree with cherokeesam. The Beatles: Rock Band is pretty much just like GH: Metallica.

Both use an updated engine. Metallica uses better vocals and a double bass pedal. Beatles use an updated engine harmonies and extra guitars.

Both use a story arc, whether it's the true life opening for Metallica or the journey through the life of the Beatles.

Both use exclusive DLC to the game, which cut offs a lot of fan support.

Both have in game rendered characters of the band. (Though in the Beatles' defense they go through every era.

They're just so similar.

Lady Siara

06-08-2009, 11:01 AM

I think Apple is the one to blame for the non-export situation. I've heard they're not the easiest to license with.

By the way, good job on having intelligent arguments guys. Very interesting to read what people think about it without constant flames/attacks. :)

jeccaneko

06-08-2009, 11:04 AM

Dead wrong. If we had Rock Band 2 exportable to The Beatles we'd have all of our songs in there as well as DLC and Rock Band 1. The Rock Band crowd would follow into The Beatles for the new features. Having them on two separate games will separate the community. This is the only one of your points I disagree with. I don't think it's a good thing that it doesn't export, if it were up to me I'd make Rock Band 2 export to The Beatles so we can play the songs in quickplay regardless. I understand why it won't happen at all but I respect Harmonix is going to take that much of a chance on this. Though it is for the alleged most popular band ever.

I disagree with this because I know people who have zero interest in The Beatles and weren't going to buy it even before we knew for sure there was no exporting.

The Beatles "isn't hard" or "it's old" or "I don't know them" or "I have no interest in them" or "RB2 is fine for me" are all the reasons I've heard. TB:RB is so oriented towards one band that there are people out there who simply wouldn't buy it even if you could export to it.

Spoiled? Maybe if RockBand had a monopoly on the rhythm game market, but last I checked there was this franchise called Guitar Hero.

You didn't read my post very well. I said we're spoiled because only Rock Band does the exporting/platform/huge DLC support thing. And there is more rhythm games than just Guitar Hero. It ticks me off when people act like those are the only ones. Unless the games below don't exist:

Dance Dance Revolution
Singstar
Karaoke Revolution
Taiko Drum Master
Space Channel 5
Parappa the Rapper
Ouendan/Elite Beat Agents
Mad Maestro
Pop n' Music
Beatmania
Guitar Freaks

...should I keep going? There's plenty more. Most of those are more than one game and each successive game mostly just has a new song list. They might have a few tiny new features, but you're pretty much buying the disc for the songs.

T-Hybrid

06-08-2009, 11:14 AM

Why do people keep using this as an argument in favor of non-exportation? "If nobody even knows the option to export exists, then they must not want that option anyway." Huh? :confused:
I'm not saying ignorance is bliss...but you're saying people will automatically be pissed that The Beatles isn't exportable when they switch to RB2.

But how can they be pissed if they didn't even know the option existed? They may end up being disappointed down the road...but that's only if they hang around after The Beatles long enough to play RB2 and find out RB3 is coming and RB2 will export to it.

Then they may look back and say "Wait, why didn't The Beatles do that?"

DMBillies

06-08-2009, 11:30 AM

Sure, ignorance is bliss. But if people *really* don't know they have the option to mix their RB1 and RB2 setlists, by god, tell them. I guarandamtee you the vast majority will jump on that. There's absolutely no logical reason that any gamer would reject the ability to carry over content from one game to its sequel/spinoff.

Quoting for extra emphasis.

Instead of telling people about exportation and introducing people to the huge amount of content already available (how about putting an "ad" for it that displays during the load screens in TB:RB and talks about the amount of music available?) and/or allowing Beatles to export immediately and/or give it compatibility with past RB content and (possibly) sharing a music store (what's wrong with letting the non-Beatles music in a segregated part of the RB quickplay menu... doesn't even need to mix with Beatles?), there will be nothing AT ALL in the Beatles game that allows you to take advantage of the existing platform, that will add to the existing platform, or that will alert new customers that the platform approach is the ONE thing that without a doubt separates RB from the competition.

We can argue back and forth how much compatibility matters... and no one will ever have any idea really (you can't get sales figures for a "version" of a game that never releases). For short term sales I don't think it matters much but for the health of the platform (introducing new customers to the platform) and current/future fans enjoyment of the series (getting Beatles into the main platform), I think it will matter.

But again, nothing we can do will ever show us the actual effect of export or not for this title... so can we all just agree that there are no real negatives to export (almost all RB fans should want this) AND that if The Beatles wouldn't budge on this issue, HMX did not have a whole lot of choice in deciding to go ahead with the game anyway (almost all RB fans are just going to have to accept this deviation from the platform, voice their displeasure with their wallet if they want, and hope HMX doesn't do it again).

David2380

06-08-2009, 11:34 AM

I'm not saying ignorance is bliss...but you're saying people will automatically be pissed that The Beatles isn't exportable when they switch to RB2.

But how can they be pissed if they didn't even know the option existed? They may end up being disappointed down the road...but that's only if they hang around after The Beatles long enough to play RB2 and find out RB3 is coming and RB2 will export to it.

Then they may look back and say "Wait, why didn't The Beatles do that?"

true...although most people that have a system, know about the rock band and G H battle and know the postitves and negatives(very few for RB) of both. Will people that don't have any system yet invest close to $500 to play a beatles game? Some maybe...but I still think most of the sales will comefrom people that play these games already...

DMBillies

06-08-2009, 11:41 AM

You didn't read my post very well. I said we're spoiled because only Rock Band does the exporting/platform/huge DLC support thing. And there is more rhythm games than just Guitar Hero. It ticks me off when people act like those are the only ones. Unless the games below don't exist:

Dance Dance Revolution
Singstar
Karaoke Revolution
Taiko Drum Master
Space Channel 5
Parappa the Rapper
Ouendan/Elite Beat Agents
Mad Maestro
Pop n' Music
Beatmania
Guitar Freaks

...should I keep going? There's plenty more. Most of those are more than one game and each successive game mostly just has a new song list. They might have a few tiny new features, but you're pretty much buying the disc for the songs.
You do understand that just because someone does something (or an entire industry does something) does not mean that it is the best approach. In business, innovation and separating yourself from the rest of the pack is essential to your success as a company.

HMX has already separated themselves from the rest of the games you mention and the only game left standing above them is GH (which is ironic, because they created their own best competitor). Now, RB had the opportunity to continue to separate themselves from that competition too as both companies release quite a few new titles (the HMX titles, in particular, reaching out to new audiences). Instead, they take a turn that makes them look MORE like GH.

I'm sorry, but there is NOTHING good about a lack of export/import and DLC incompatibility other than the fact that giving the Beatles what they wanted ensured that HMX got what they wanted at the expense of one of the things we wanted (most of us anyway...even quite a few people that are still going to buy this game anyway).

Bosco32

06-08-2009, 11:50 AM

But again, nothing we can do will ever show us the actual effect of export or not for this title... so can we all just agree that there are no real negatives to export (almost all RB fans should want this) AND that if The Beatles wouldn't budge on this issue, HMX did not have a whole lot of choice in deciding to go ahead with the game anyway (almost all RB fans are just going to have to accept this deviation from the platform, voice their displeasure with their wallet if they want, and hope HMX doesn't do it again).

We're on the same page here. I think one of the reasons that I can move past my initial disappointment is that I (and most of us) would have done the same thing as HMX in this case.

LoopyChew

06-08-2009, 12:01 PM

But again, nothing we can do will ever show us the actual effect of export or not for this title... so can we all just agree that there are no real negatives to export (almost all RB fans should want this) AND that if The Beatles wouldn't budge on this issue, HMX did not have a whole lot of choice in deciding to go ahead with the game anyway (almost all RB fans are just going to have to accept this deviation from the platform, voice their displeasure with their wallet if they want, and hope HMX doesn't do it again).

This. This, this, so very much this. Thank you for summarizing my thoughts more or less exactly.

folkeye

06-08-2009, 12:22 PM

DMBillies

06-08-2009, 12:32 PM

I might be the only person out there from what I can tell who would NOT want 45 songs from ONE artist exported into my RB1/RB2 world. I don't have tons of DLC, so the chances of having a good selection of random songs pop up is slim. I like the Beatles, I'll get the game, but I don't want 1 or 2 of their songs popping up in every mystery set I play, that would get aggravating (I prefer sticking to tour mode vs. quick play). Self containment in this case is a good thing.

I respect this opinion and I think I've only seen one other person make it. Probably because most people who would buy a Beatles disk don't think having a lot of Beatles in their main setlist is a bad thing, but your point is taken... and the fact is, you could choose NOT to export just like I could choose to export if it were an option.

Nonetheless, you have inadvertently hit on my number one request for RB3... and that is a much more rich way to control what gets played and when. This includes savable setlists and playlists, the ability to disable songs from the setlist and random setlists without deleting them, and anything else that better incorporates DLC/exports into the tour and allows players to flexibly determine what they want to play and when. If RB3 did incorporate these things, there would less reason for your to ignore the export if you had the option.

ScottyTheBody

06-08-2009, 12:35 PM

This thread was supposed to be about the 'good points' of TB:RB NOT being exportable. But it's unavoidable that it goes the direction of the countless others int he forums a passionate hate for this fact. But any how...

I might be the only person out there from what I can tell who would NOT want 45 songs from ONE artist exported into my RB1/RB2 world. I don't have tons of DLC, so the chances of having a good selection of random songs pop up is slim. I like the Beatles, I'll get the game, but I don't want 1 or 2 of their songs popping up in every mystery set I play, that would get aggravating (I prefer sticking to tour mode vs. quick play). Self containment in this case is a good thing.

The only time you should start stressing over this issue is if/when RB3 comes out and they say 'sorry RB1 and RB2 won't work'. THEN it's time to throw them rotten tomatos.

Maybe this will game will spark an interest for people unfamiliar with RB to look into it. Heaven knows we need more players... the player pool is getting more scarce... at least when I want to play :(

So you don't want tons of Beatles songs on one area so you wouldn't export (though this is a little odd because on the other disc there is a 100% chance of getting the Beatles in a mystery setlist rather than like 10-20%)...whatever.

Does having an export function force you to export? No. So...explain to me again why having this function would be a bad idea?

You think the player pool is small now. Wait til we get the players spread over several "platforms" (Rock Band, The Beatles, Lego, rumours of Green Day now and Pearl Jam too). At least with one platform, most of the players would be centralized.

Gryffindor

06-08-2009, 12:35 PM

the player pool is getting more scarce... at least when I want to play :(

And, it will become even smaller once TB:RB releases. Take the GH franchise for example. Soon there will be GHWT, GHM and Smash Hits.

None of them export into the other.

Now, try finding a full band. I've NEVER been able to find a full band on GHWT.

But, this all may be a moot point as NOTHING (to my knowledge) has been officially posted by HMX stating that TB:RB will have online capabilities.

folkeye

06-08-2009, 12:38 PM

I respect this opinion and I think I've only seen one other person make it. Probably because most people who would buy a Beatles disk don't think having a lot of Beatles in their main setlist is a bad thing, but your point is taken... and the fact is, you could choose NOT to export just like I could choose to export if it were an option.

Nonetheless, you have inadvertently hit on my number one request for RB3... and that is a much more rich way to control what gets played and when. This includes savable setlists and playlists, the ability to disable songs from the setlist and random setlists without deleting them, and anything else that better incorporates DLC/exports into the tour and allows players to flexibly determine what they want to play and when. If RB3 did incorporate these things, there would less reason for your to ignore the export if you had the option.

Yeah I know what you mean... to HAVE exportability is what most people want RB to be about and that is a good thing. To do it is just choice :) Heck don't get me started on the wonderful fantasy of be able to block out songs not to play...LOL. That is another topic and shall be discussed another time. :D

David2380

06-08-2009, 01:12 PM

The problem and scary part of all this is where do we go from here. I am willing to make an exception for the Beatles but does that mean Led Zep, Pink Floyd, Queen and on and on are goning to be handled the same way? That means PLATFORM does not exist any longer and we have a higher quality Guitar Hero on our hands.....

Kingfish

06-08-2009, 01:26 PM

Whats the deal? TB:RB is only possible with the cooperation of the Beatles and/or their estates. The Beatles likenesses singing Beatles songs are the only thing that was agreed upon. Is it ‘legal’ for the Foo Fighters to just decide to play “Hard Days Night” during a show without permission? Is it legal for Serj Tankian to record his version of “I am the Walrus” and release it without permission? That’s what this is about. HMX doesn’t have the rights to release it. That was the agreement…don’t you think HMX would LOVE to have The Beatles over in RB2 or as potential DLC? Of course they would.

Don’t get caught up with what HMX should have done or could have done, this is simply a legal issue of licensing. The Beatles have been legendary in the protection of their ‘brand(s)’ songs and likenesses and it shouldn’t be any surprise that this would continue with this game. They didn’t sign up to be a part of Rock Band they agreed to be a game all to themselves. They don’t want to see a band that looks like _____(fill blank with ANY band that doesn’t look EXACTLY like The Beatles) playing “I Want To Hold Your Hand”.

Besides, if TB:RB can be exported to RB2/RB1…then it would open up the reverse. DLC in TB:RB? I don’t know about you but I don’t want to see John, Paul, George and Ringo playing Thrasher by Evile :/

Parodygm

06-08-2009, 02:32 PM

ScottyTheBody

06-08-2009, 02:37 PM

None of what we know ultimately excludes an export of TB:RB to a future RB3 (which more than likely will support three part harmonies now), unless the contractual obligations related to securing the Beatles rights preclude it. That of course is a real possibility.

An export key for all the Beatles tracks 6-12 months down the line from the TB:RB release for a Rock Band 3 would make good business sense. Who knows, it might happen still.

I'm not sure how many times this has been said but...

The Beatles is a standalone game with stand alone DLC and is it's own stand alone platform. The Beatles will NEVER join ANY game that is on the standard Rock Band platform (ie: RB1, RB2, RB3, etc). Never. Period.

Parodygm

06-08-2009, 02:45 PM

I'm not sure how many times this has been said but...

The Beatles is a standalone game with stand alone DLC and is it's own stand alone platform. The Beatles will NEVER join ANY game that is on the standard Rock Band platform (ie: RB1, RB2, RB3, etc). Never. Period.

Does saying it repeatedly allay any fears that given time, that position could change? :rolleyes:

Besides, what part of what I said made it look likely that it will happen?

cherokeesam

06-08-2009, 04:02 PM

Besides, if TB:RB can be exported to RB2/RB1…then it would open up the reverse. DLC in TB:RB? I don’t know about you but I don’t want to see John, Paul, George and Ringo playing Thrasher by Evile :/

I don't like to see male characters singing female songs in RB, or vice versa. But from the occasional threads I've seen on the topic, I'm in the minority there....well behind the forum majority that says (more or less) "who cares what your characters look like? It's about the music."

They'd say the same thing about Beatles avatars in the game. Nobody besides you and I would give a damn about who's singing what song.

JackBNimble

06-08-2009, 04:03 PM

Most of my online friends are not RB forum goers.
All of them have exported RB1 , a few have AC/DC , and most have over 300 DLC songs.

Everyone of them thought TB:RB was going to be exportable untill I set them straight.And everyone of them was excited about TB:RB untill they got the bad news.

The point I'm trying to make is .... I keep hearing that we forum goers are the minority so only a few of us really care about exportablity.
But I bag to differ.

There are thousands of loyal RB fans with RB1,2 and tons of DLC that don't come to the forums who expect TB:RB to be exportable.People have come to expect RB to be the Platform title that HMX said it was going to be.

Anyone who thinks this move is a good thing needs to rethink everything! The only thing this is doing is splitting the forums and we will see if it splits RB's fan base.

HMX should put a warning lable on the packaging stating TB:RB is not exportable to RB so the loyal RB fan who doesn't come to the forums doesn't get blindsided.

I can't wait untill 9/9/09 we'll see how many RB fans show up to the forums wondering how to export TB:RB.This is going to be so much fun....HEHE!

elfreako

06-08-2009, 04:25 PM

As much as I see the business reasons that may have prevented it, I see absolutely nothing good in not being able to export the Beatles songs into the main Rock Band platform, with RB2 as the current main title.

Still hoping for the option to be there in RB3, though it's very unlikely.

T-Hybrid

06-08-2009, 04:26 PM

As we saw with the original RB, exportation can always be added later. If the game sells well enough and The Beatles decide they like what they are seeing, HMX might be able to approach them later and request that talks reopen for bringing the content into the main series.

Scopitone

06-08-2009, 04:37 PM

5) Cheap people would buy/rent it, export the tracks to RB2 and return it.

JackBNimble

06-08-2009, 04:47 PM

5) Cheap people would buy/rent it, export the tracks to RB2 and return it.

Maybe so...I would be one to play through it and enjoy the game.I would probably come back to TB:RB when I'm in the mood.But since I'm not given the option to play the Beatles music along side the rest of my tunes in RB, the idea of renting it has now become my only option.

And now I will not be buying any of the dlc.

I can't play more then a few songs from any band before I want to play another artist music.I need VARIETY......does anyone get that?

And that is why TB:RB will get old fast (in my opinion).

Parodygm

06-08-2009, 04:49 PM

5) Cheap people would buy/rent it, export the tracks to RB2 and return it.

Precisely why it won't happen for RB2 (which doesn't support vocal harmonies) and why it could happen for an RB3 after enough time has passed that TB:RB sales have been reduced to a trickle.

aggiesrul8

06-08-2009, 04:50 PM

I can't play more then a few songs from any band before I want to play another artist music.I need VERITY......does anyone get that?

And that is why TB:RB will get old fast (in my opinion).

So in order to play, you need "The quality or condition of being true, factual, or real"

(definition of verity for those who don't get it)

JackBNimble

06-08-2009, 04:53 PM

Precisely why it won't happen for RB2 (which doesn't support vocal harmonies) and why it could happen for an RB3 after enough time has passed that TB:RB sales have been reduced to a trickle.

It would really be nice if you're right.
It would boost sales, atleast for TB DLC.I would buy as much as possible.

JackBNimble

06-08-2009, 04:57 PM

So in order to play, you need "The quality or condition of being true, factual, or real"

(definition of verity for those who don't get it)

Ok twist what I say ,you're good I give you that.

VARIETY!!!!

Is that better? Do you understand what I'm saying now?

aggiesrul8

06-08-2009, 04:59 PM

Ok twist what I say ,you're good I give you that.

VARIETY!!!!

I did not twist anything. Something said just as a joke. :)

JackBNimble

06-08-2009, 05:01 PM

I did not twist anything. Something said just as a joke. :)

I get it

LoopyChew

06-08-2009, 05:03 PM

5) Cheap people would buy/rent it, export the tracks to RB2 and return it.

Which is why it would make reasonable business sense if it started out being unexportable, and then allowed for export after six months or so: all of the initial sales will be over with and most of the sales would take place in game re-sales anyway.

JackBNimble

06-08-2009, 05:20 PM

5) Cheap people would buy/rent it, export the tracks to RB2 and return it.

Not if there was the one time code like on AD/DC (I do realize that was for the download).But why couldn't that be a one time export key?This way you would have to buy it.

I know this will never happen but I'm just saying this for the sake of arguement.

Super Bass

06-08-2009, 08:36 PM

5) Cheap people would buy/rent it, export the tracks to RB2 and return it.

Most stores don't accept returns on brand new video games if they have been opened. The game can be exchanged for another copy of the same game in the same condition (opened), but it can't be returned for a refund or store credit after it's been opened (in GameStop's case, it depends on the store).

I think you're also forgetting that the RB1 export WASN'T free. If The Beatles songs exported, I wouldn't expect that to be free either. So whether people buy the game or rent it, they'll most likely have to pay SOME amount of money for the songs (game purchase/rental cost and key purchase). If MONEY was the TRUE reason the songs are not exportable, Harmonix can always make a deal with The Beatles to export (like a $20/1600 microsoft points cost for the key purchase). The Beatles get more money outside of the standalone, and WE (the customers) get to play the songs in more than one game.

And this would ENSURE that everyone buys the game brand new:

Not if there was the one time code like on AD/DC (I do realize that was for the download).But why couldn't that be a one time export key?This way you would have to buy it.

I know this will never happen but I'm just saying this for the sake of arguement.

HMX can make it just like the RB2 20 free bonus tracks (a code on the manual used to register each copy of the game--REWARD people for buying the game brand new). If HMX can't export the songs NOW, let the customers register their copy of the game when September comes then send an export code by email when RB3 rolls around next year (conformation email, then an email containing the export code).

cherokeesam

06-08-2009, 11:59 PM

^ Verily and forsooth.

HMX could also get around the whole rent-just-to-get-the-export-code schtick by making it a one-time code (as it was for AC/DC and, I believe, RB1) or by simply delaying shipping the game to Blockbuster and Gamefly and other rental outlets for a few months. Or just forgoing rentals altogether.

T-Hybrid

06-09-2009, 12:39 AM

One thing I never understood about the export code is why HMX allowed you to just drop it into the online store like it was nothing. Not to dig my own grave with the cheaper sect around here...but wouldn't it be more effective to require you to enter the manual code through some device ON THE DISC?

That way even if you have a valid one-off code you can't actually use it until you've put a copy of the disc in your tray. So at least in that regard if you steal a code you're going to need a disc to actually enter it in.

DMBillies

06-09-2009, 01:04 AM

I could be wrong, but I think the issue may be that there is no good way to add "one-time" exportability to the disk (or manual) if it was not already produced with that code (and I assume they would not include any type of code unless HMX already had plans to export to RB3 or unless they did it simply on the off chance that they can eventually get export). Would there really be a way to add one-time export after the fact even if HMX didn't put the functionality in to start with?

I doubt HMX would have allowed the RB1 disk to directly export if it were possible (because people can rent, export, and return... getting the export for $5 instead of actually buying). Although buying used would save money too and NOT net any money for HMX either, so maybe they were just banking on the export helping to sell more RB2 disks and NOT more RB1 disks (except to people who have to much of a conscience to rent and rip).

In any case, I guess the export function could simply cost enough to offset the "loss" of disk sales that might result from people renting, but seeing how wary the Beatles seem to be of digital distribution, I would not expect them to allow a direct download from the disk without ensuring more sales of TB:RB by making it one time.

Despite the fact that I'm not buying the game unless export is possible, I would definitely pay up to $90 for the game + export if it did have that functionality (that's $2 per song and I know I will like most every one musically, plus I'd get some enjoyment from the actual Beatles game... which is worth paying a bit for).

DMBillies

06-09-2009, 01:15 AM

HMX should put a warning lable on the packaging stating TB:RB is not exportable to RB so the loyal RB fan who doesn't come to the forums doesn't get blindsided.

I can't wait untill 9/9/09 we'll see how many RB fans show up to the forums wondering how to export TB:RB.This is going to be so much fun....HEHE!

I don't know I ever posted this, but I definitely thought it before.

Even if people who know/care about export is a minority of the RB population, the number of those who also read the forums are probably even smaller. I doubt most announcements about this game will have anything about export except maybe for the hardcore gaming websites. I expect a lot of posts on 09/10 by new forums members either wondering how to export or saying, "WTF!!!!"

I don't think HMX is going to market their game by putting a "negative" feature on the box (that would simply be stupid), but, man, I do think this is going to create a certain amount of resentment in at least a few TB:RB buyers... and no matter how small the pie is of people who care about export and don't come on these forums... even 1% of a million is 10,000...

LoopyChew

06-09-2009, 05:31 AM

JackBNimble

06-09-2009, 06:59 AM

I don't know I ever posted this, but I definitely thought it before.

Even if people who know/care about export is a minority of the RB population, the number of those who also read the forums are probably even smaller. I doubt most announcements about this game will have anything about export except maybe for the hardcore gaming websites. I expect a lot of posts on 09/10 by new forums members either wondering how to export or saying, "WTF!!!!"

I don't think HMX is going to market their game by putting a "negative" feature on the box (that would simply be stupid), but, man, I do think this is going to create a certain amount of resentment in at least a few TB:RB buyers... and no matter how small the pie is of people who care about export and don't come on these forums... even 1% of a million is 10,000...

I agree with you, no one in their right mind would put a negative feature on the box (it was more of a sarcastic statement when I said it).

Anyway ,I will not support any standalone RB game (and i did want TB:RB and the DLC ,my loss I guess) and if the Pearl Jam project is a standalone game I may just......

I'm done with this topic there is no point talking about it any longer.

I can only hope that HMX will stand by the RB PLATFORM that they said it was.

elfreako

06-09-2009, 08:20 AM

Not if there was the one time code like on AD/DC (I do realize that was for the download).But why couldn't that be a one time export key?This way you would have to buy it.

I know this will never happen but I'm just saying this for the sake of arguement.

That would be one hell of a download though. AC/DC was huge, this is more than twice the size, with a much large number of users. Still, this is how I thought it would work. There's no way HMX would shoot themselves in the foot and allow people to pickup a disc and export the song for $5 for a product that still has not paid for itself.

I think it's reasonable to hope for an export a year or so from now when RB3 hits the shelves, just don't bet your paycheck on it. By then the game's sales will be pretty much done, and an export would only regenerate the interest.

RMThompson

06-09-2009, 09:16 AM

Personally, I think the best approach to the whole deal would be the following:

1. Each of these games comes with a special code you input into the HMX RB website, along with your e-mail address and platform of choice (PS3/360; Wii users don't get redemption codes at all due to Nintendo architecture from what I understand).
2. HMX verifies the code on their end and sends you a confirmation link. It confirms that both 1) your address is valid and 2) their e-mails aren't getting caught in your spam filter. You have 48 hours to confirm, or HMX disregards the message.
3. If not confirmed, HMX will leave that code alone; however, if confirmed, they will put both the confirmation code and address in a database, to receive a redemption code for the export software at a later date.

This pretty much means:
1) People will be playing TB:RB for a while on its own--it will retain its "exclusivity window."
2) People will be holding their copies of TB:RB at least until the exports are available--cheaper to hold on than to buy a copy, sell it, and buy another used one.

This is a pipe dream, obviously, but what's wrong with that?

It's because the exportability has less to do with Harmonix and more to do with Apple Corps. They want (and deserve) control over all their music. They want it to be presented ONLY as shown in the Beatles game, not with other versions of Rock Band.

Also, add to the fact that losing the ability to harmonize takes a big chunk out of the fun of these songs, and it's just NOT going to happen.

The only hope is that they change their minds with RB3, but since that title isn't even ANNOUNCED yet, I'd say let's just be happy with what we've got! :)

Neoxon

06-09-2009, 09:23 AM

Good point

LoopyChew

06-09-2009, 10:45 AM

It's because the exportability has less to do with Harmonix and more to do with Apple Corps. They want (and deserve) control over all their music. They want it to be presented ONLY as shown in the Beatles game, not with other versions of Rock Band.

While I'm aware of all those issues (if you check my post history, I think you'll see that), there's one other advantage to having a key like this to submit to the HMX website (as opposed to directly to LIVE or PSN or whatever): they may be able to offer other goodies (instead of an export key) as a new-purchase bonus. This is, of course, assuming they had anything they could use as bonus material. It doesn't even have to be platform-native, really, although if it were web stuff that'd kind of nullify the effect of it being exclusive to retail buyers.

Sportzter

06-09-2009, 11:28 AM

I've seen some people complain about the fact The Beatles: Rock Band is not exportable, you can't play current RB DLC on it, and it'll only worth with Beatles DLC. Well, here's a few reasons it's good that it is standalone!

tl;dr people can just read the stuff in bold to get my point.
[QUOTE=jeccaneko;2535323]
1) If Rock Band 2 (and its DLC) was exportable to The Beatles: Rock Band, that would fracture the community. You would have some people playing on RB2, some playing on TB:RB, and that would kill the whole platform concept that I am convinced HMX still wants to keep.

I Dont think this ever crossed their mind and there are some people that dont have RB2...the RB community is not fractured because of it. So No, this is an opinion that is really not based in fact.

2) If The Beatles: Rock Band (and its DLC) was exportable to Rock Band 2, it would not support harmonies. The RB2 engine simply is not programmed to do this. Thus it would kill part of the fun of playing these songs.

True...which is why it is not BACKWARDS compatible.

3) The Beatles: Rock Band will most likely help the RB platform grow. The Beatles will inspire people to pick up TB:RB. That might get people so into it they want to get into the main game. If the main game's DLC was supported in TB:RB, it would not encourage converts and you'd still have that community fracturing like I mentioned in #1.

Well sort of...It will bring new people to recognize the RockBand name and those that buy Beatles and do not own the RB 1 or 2 titles it will be new customers for HMX.

Your second point really doesn't make sense since RB2 owners buying the Beatles title and importing songs along with your "Converts" comments are not linear and/or comparable. They are two different things and are not related.

4) The Beatles: Rock Band is a whole new game, just with Rock Band gameplay. It is meant to give you the whole Beatles experience. It is NOT meant to be traditional sort of Rock Band. That's why you don't have your own characters. That's why you go to famous Beatles-related locations, the dreamscapes, etc.

True...This should have been point number 1 then you would not have needed the other three points. This is the ONLY real reason why the game is not exportable. Because they MADE it that way. For whatever their reasoning it is the avenue they chose to follow.

T-Hybrid

06-09-2009, 11:44 AM

HMX should put a warning lable on the packaging stating TB:RB is not exportable to RB so the loyal RB fan who doesn't come to the forums doesn't get blindsided.
Or, you know, they could just not mention exportability at all. If you look back, all track packs have a bullet point regarding the ability to download the songs for use in the main series.

Well, The Beatles doesn't include this bullet point. So hmmm...wonder if it doesn't support the feature?

Super Bass

06-09-2009, 12:10 PM

HMX should put a warning lable on the packaging stating TB:RB is not exportable to RB so the loyal RB fan who doesn't come to the forums doesn't get blindsided.

I can't wait untill 9/9/09 we'll see how many RB fans show up to the forums wondering how to export TB:RB.This is going to be so much fun....HEHE!

Or, you know, they could just not mention exportability at all. If you look back, all track packs have a bullet point regarding the ability to download the songs for use in the main series.

Well, The Beatles doesn't include this bullet point. So hmmm...wonder if it doesn't support the feature?

It isn't necessarily a negative, but more of a product feature. The RB1 export is mentioned on the back of the packaging of RB2, along with the mention that the game requires instruments to play.

For the Beatles game, the packaging can state:

*Game does not require Rock Band to play (songs cannot be transferred to previous versions of Rock Band).

I don't see that as negative (currently, the songs ARE only playable on one disc) :confused:.

This mention lets people know that their 45 songs can only be played on one disc (at the moment). But the wording ALSO gives HMX a chance to make the songs transferable to RB3 if the rights to export can be worked out some time in the future (hence the "previous versions" mentioned in the sentence--all Rock Band titles before 2009).

Gryffindor

06-09-2009, 01:38 PM

HMX has nailed down the art of not providing information. It's what they DON'T say that gets them into trouble (jukebox mode anyone?).

There's no way that they're going to actively advertise that the songs won't be exportable into RB2 or RB3.

This game could either make or break the franchise. I personally don't see it as a winning financial opportunity. They had to have paid through the nose for the song rights. But in return, they're releasing a game that has fewer songs by one band that only true die-hard Beatles fans are going to go nuts over.

For example, my kids 13 & 20 could care less about the Beatles. Heck, I'm 41 and the Beatles are even before my time.

What's going to make things even worse is that GH5 will release a week prior.

We all agree that RB is the superior game but it's hard to beat the name recognition that GH garners and the earlier release date.

My biggest hope is that they already have RB3 in the works for a spring release (and it better include a RB2 export function);).

T-Hybrid

06-09-2009, 01:44 PM

It isn't necessarily a negative, but more of a product feature.
It's a NON feature. You don't advertise non-features...because they're not there. I don't get how this is confusing for people.

Every exportable Track Pack has included that information ON THE PACKAGE. The Beatles Rock Band will not support that, and thus won't include that information. Therefore: No confusion. It's not on the box, don't assume it's there.

If anybody reading the package has any confusion, 30 seconds on the web (if even) will solve that problem.

firebreather428

06-09-2009, 04:08 PM

whats the problem you brought the Beatles to play the beatles right not like that metallica game with random songs thrown in

gamrrpol

06-09-2009, 06:48 PM

Super Bass

06-09-2009, 08:42 PM

It isn't necessarily a negative, but more of a product feature. The RB1 export is mentioned on the back of the packaging of RB2, along with the mention that the game requires instruments to play.

For the Beatles game, the packaging can state:

*Game does not require Rock Band to play (songs cannot be transferred to previous versions of Rock Band).

I don't see that as negative (currently, the songs ARE only playable on one disc) :confused:.

This mention lets people know that their 45 songs can only be played on one disc (at the moment). But the wording ALSO gives HMX a chance to make the songs transferable to RB3 if the rights to export can be worked out some time in the future (hence the "previous versions" mentioned in the sentence--all Rock Band titles before 2009).

It's a NON feature. You don't advertise non-features...because they're not there. I don't get how this is confusing for people.

Every exportable Track Pack has included that information ON THE PACKAGE. The Beatles Rock Band will not support that, and thus won't include that information. Therefore: No confusion. It's not on the box, don't assume it's there.

If anybody reading the package has any confusion, 30 seconds on the web (if even) will solve that problem.

Confused? :confused:

When I mentioned "product feature," I was talking about the game being a standalone. By "a negative" I meant that putting the statement I wrote on the packaging would only HELP people understand that the Beatles game has NOTHING to do with RB1 or RB2 (causes less confusion for customers, and gets the "export" issue out of the way in one bullet point):

*Game does not require Rock Band to play (songs cannot be transferred to previous versions of Rock Band).

Harmonix doesn't LOSE anything by pointing that out. The Beatles game IS a separate game that can be played by itself (like the track packs), but it's NOT RB3. Some people just don't know that. One sentence clarifies it all. Yes, the export ISN'T a feature, but not requiring Rock Band to play IS a feature (the info that follows is just the easiest way of HMX washing their hands of "confused customers").

As far as searching the web, these "people" that have been mentioned in this thread that are unaware that RB1 can be exported into RB2 (even with it being mentioned on the back of the packaging AND in the game manual :rolleyes:) are most likely the target audience for this game. This group will have NO clue that RB:TB CAN or CAN'T transfer (because apparently they don't do ENOUGH research--30 seconds for you and me, but maybe an hour for them). Some people are just impatient about looking things up (even with the economy and everything). And the export issue is probably the LAST thing they'd find out about (assuming they don't know that RB1 exports to RB2, right?). I think that SOME people will learn about it online, but I figure MOST will be clueless even AFTER looking up the game information (the reason I said HMX should just put the statement on the box).

I understand what you meant by NOT putting it on the packaging (like how "no export" isn't mentioned on the GH games because it's NOT part of the game). But what I wrote was just a simple statement that Harmonix could put on the packaging to cause LESS confusion for people considering purchasing the game. Since some of them don't know how to read a game manual throughly (the RB1 export mentioned above), or know which gaming sites, besides this one, to check for game info (like many of us on here) putting it on the box for them to read in the store simply makes HMX look good (export or no export).

Man, that was wordy. :o

Super Bass

06-09-2009, 09:29 PM

I meant to reply to this yesterday:

This thread was supposed to be about the 'good points' of TB:RB NOT being exportable. But it's unavoidable that it goes the direction of the countless others int he forums a passionate hate for this fact. But any how...

I might be the only person out there from what I can tell who would NOT want 45 songs from ONE artist exported into my RB1/RB2 world. I don't have tons of DLC, so the chances of having a good selection of random songs pop up is slim. I like the Beatles, I'll get the game, but I don't want 1 or 2 of their songs popping up in every mystery set I play, that would get aggravating (I prefer sticking to tour mode vs. quick play). Self containment in this case is a good thing.

The only time you should start stressing over this issue is if/when RB3 comes out and they say 'sorry RB1 and RB2 won't work'. THEN it's time to throw them rotten tomatos.

Maybe this will game will spark an interest for people unfamiliar with RB to look into it. Heaven knows we need more players... the player pool is getting more scarce... at least when I want to play :(

Good points of TB:RB not being exportable:

1) We get to play The Beatles in a video game (and the gameplay looks VERY nice). :)

2) The game will spark the interest of non-gamers (like the Wii did back in 2006, and continues to do today).

3) The game gives Harmonix a nice starting place to shape their ideas for RB3 (harmonies, updated character details, etc.).

And as Jecca, said:

4) The Beatles:Rock Band will most likely help the RB platform grow (I can't see this game not pushing at least ONE person to purchase RB2).

I'm not so much disappointed about the game not exporting (understandable rights issues and the fact that this was NOT an Activision game :cool:). I'm just let down about the issue not being clarified months ago and the shock some players will have when they realize that the songs are stuck to ONE disc, unlike RB1 to RB2 (and hopefully RB2 to RB3). It will be an AWESOME disc, but the songs will still only be on ONE disc.

The Beatles on ONE disc, or no Beatles at all.

Tough scenario, but "something" is better than "nothing at all."

Also, I applaud your optimism on this whole situation, Sir (no sarcasm in that statement). :)

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