That's it - I give up on Rock Band...

[LongDarkBlues]

and the Xbox, too. I have been following the release of this game for almost a year and specifically bought a new widescreen HDTV, rented a new apartment where my friends and I could be louder. I preordered in full and picked it up first thing on launch day after talking it up to everyone who came by the Best Buy kiosks. Within 2 minutes of putting the game in - before I even got to see one song - my 360, my second - died. Undeterred I went and bought a new one from Wal-Mart (the first time I've broken my boycott in 5 years, due to their lenient return policy) and sent the dead Xbox off to get replaced.

So, with that taken care of I took it all to the new apartment - which still hadn't had the internet hooked up because the building needed a survey team to set it up - I tried to use the new Xbox to play the game. Unfortunately, apparently now you can't even boot up the Xbox without being connected to a broadband connection. So I had to go into work - I'd taken the day off to play! - and spent the next couple hours waiting for the Xbox to do it's firmware update (for, you see, we're heavily firewalled and I can't open a port on the router for Live so it's astonishingly slow). Since I'd already spent 8 hours trying to get the game working, I figured why not wait a bit longer and I went ahead and bought every single downloadable track. Finally everything was ready.

All my interested friends who were psyched to play after months of me talking about it came over and we played all night - it was great fun and everyone had a blast. Towards the end of the night the Stratocaster died on the downstrum like most people's. At the time it was being played on Medium bass. It was ok, though, as we were mostly going to be a three piece band and I still had the Xplorer from Guitar Hero II to use and I'd been reading on here that others were having the same problem and the replacements were on the way out. After a couple of days i did the non-express RMA. Although the shipper mis-delivered it, I did eventually get the empty RMA box and send the guitar out. As of today, no replacement has arrived.

So things are ok for 2 weeks. I finally get the internet hooked up at the apartment, we're having fun and switching off when 4 people are over. Then I read that the downloaded songs - 3 some dollars worth so far - won't work on my replaced unit when it returns unless I'm connected to Live. That's pnly a mild inconvenience at home, but I had intentions of taking this to friends houses down the line, and most people, casual gamers certainly, don't have a broadband connection going to their TVs. Had I known I would have not purchased any of the DLC until the replaced Xbox arrived, but it's so counterintuitive it never crossed my mind.

As we played I noticed huge issues for the mic lagging way behind the vocal tracks - this has been well documented on here as a software issue - and it was ok as long as you didn't have to do a speaking/rapping part on one of the higher difficulties. Also, having sung in a couple of bands, i have a pretty projecting singing voice, but I had to rein that way in to keep the cheap mic from freaking out at louder sounds, even after turning the sensitivity way down. It seems to be fine there as long as you are singing in a high head voice with no vibrato - which sounds really stupid most of the time, but it was still funny to hear my friends do it. For a while. I was going to buy a new, better USB mic, but was waiting for the mic lag problem to be fixed. I guess it doesn't matter now, though. Also, we started to notice a crack forming and the hinge of the bass pedal. We have just started to get to the beginnings of Hard drumming and since I'd been hearing about broken bass pedals on here since launch, I'd enforced a socks-only drumming rule. So anticipating it breaking fully eventually, I did another non-Express RMA for the pedal.

Yesterday the bass pedal snapped about 30 seconds after our first play through the just-purchased DLC, The Ramones Rockaway Beach with the drummer on Easy, in socks. It snapped in a totally different place than the first crack - halfway between the hinge and the spring, easily breaking through the support plastic crisscrosses on the bottom. So, since after several days my RMA box for the pedal still hadn't shipped according to the UPS site, I called EA Support to see if I could upgrade the RMA to Express by giving them my credit card. After 2 attempts, I was both times disconnected immediately when I hit '1' to speak with Customer Support instead of the automated menu tree. As of this writing, the empty RMA box still hasn't shipped. Also, I have not received a single confirmation email from EA Support about anything - I've had to email the tracking numbers to myself from their page, a small point, but a symptom of a greater problem for sure.

Even after all this - now that the only properly functioning piece of hardware in this game is my 2 year old-that-I bought-used heavily-abused-through-Expert Guitar Hero II Xplorer - I was still ok with it all. But last night I posted a shortened version of this over in the Tech support forum in a response to this thread (http://community.rockband.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=14948&page=2). The thread was locked summarily and politely by HMXJohnLok, and I think it was either because of this:


I think it's time EA bit the bullet and offered a total package recall or they should start preparing for a class action suit. Surely someone is putting one together.
or this:

I really wanted to believe that the people who purchased this weren't being intentionally screwed, but that's clearly not the case. It's not as if they just designed a new magnetic strumbar and put it into production over the last 3 weeks - haven't we seen 3 different guitar designs opened up here so far? - they absolutely knew the equipment was faulty and sent it out anyway. The consumers should clearly be reimbursed - if you sell an unusable product, then you refund the cost to the purchaser - it's that simple.

I understand that a new thread about hardware failure is somewhat redundant, but repeatedly locking and moving threads - particularly relatively reasoned, detailed descriptions of the hardware - so that they disappear into the depths of the forum is a terrible censorship practice that does a disservice to people looking to buy the game, and to those of us who have it looking information, as the official story has been repeatedly untrue - things like the 'Best Buy guitars were preproduction models, the ones shipping in the boxes are fixed,' for example.

So, that ultimately is the final straw. When (if?) my Rock Band replacement Stratocaster and Drum Pedal arrive, I'm putting it all back in it's original box and selling it on Craigslist or eBay to recoup the cost of the game. While I'm at it, I'm returning the current (3rd) Xbox to Wal-Mart and selling my replaced 360 when (if?) it arrives, along with all my games, back to Gamestop. This massive level of hardware failure - both from HMX/EA and Microsoft - would be unacceptable in any other industry, and way these companies have shrugged off what amounts to consumer fraud with a half-assed RMA system, PR vagueness, and information suppression to hide the perceived failure rate is almost criminal business practice. So that's it, I'm out.

Harmonix, here's why it hurts you. I know I'm a tiny man in a huge world, but I've really tried to support this game and I was excited at the opportunity for people to engage with music that it provides. I have a detailed track listing at uber-hipster rateyourmusic.com that has been linked to on Scorehero and shows up pretty high on a google search for the game. It's here (http://rateyourmusic.com/list/morgankingrocks/songs_in_the_game_rock_band), for now. JohnLok, I think you even praised it when I first put it up. Secondly, I run a medium-sized record label and have been discussing with my artists ways we could work with this technology and they were excited to get a package together and attempt to collaborate you. I'm telling them today that this is not moving forward any longer.

Moreso, and I am dead serious, if this post is deleted or this thread locked in an effort to suppress it, I swear I will post it at the top of the record label blog, on the music forums I frequent, I will place it at the top of the rateyourmusic list, I will send it to Penny Arcade and Kotaku and I will submit it to fark and slashdot because this is valuable information to a lot of people and hiding it doesn't make it go away.

[XeroTalent]

You rearranged your whole life for a video game?

[LongDarkBlues]

No - it was just time to move, but Rock Band was certainly a factor in what I wanted in a neighbor situation. Lots of people bought new TVs for the game.

[XeroTalent]

Fair enough. I admit I would be equally frustrated in your shoes.

Regrettably, I'm in Canada, so I need not say more...........................

I hope you find resolution.

EDIT: Have you thought of contacting TeamXbox.com (http://www.teamxbox.com/) or IGN (http://xbox360.ign.com/)? I'm very surprised that these issues are not making these magazine's editorials. They even did an article on the crappy GH3 website and how people were complaining and demanding answers which were not forthcoming until the article was run. Perhaps bringing the issues to light in these huuuuge areas may yield results. They are, after all, free press.

[michaeld]

Rock Band=serious Business

[Bakkster]

Sorry that you had such a horrible string of bad luck with the game :(

Hope things go well for you. Sucks that you're leaving.

[angry_jonny]

Regrettably, I'm in Canada, so I need not say more...........................

It's not regrettable at all. You're very likely to have the first production release of RB once it gets out of its current beta testing on us easily duped American consumers.

[AVC808]

definitely the most civil complaint post ever, but i predict it will still get locked, especially after a bunch of others jump in and get all outta control. i feel for you though. some of us are really patient, but you cant expect everyone to hold the same.

[Apples]

I don't like the portability restrictions on XBLive content either. My DVD drive is borderline failing and I am hesitent to get it replaced just because of that. In any case, it seems you were unlucky enough to hit the exact worst case scenario for this sort of thing. It is too bad.

I have tried to put myself in your shoes, and think how I might react to what is a certainly lousy chain of events. With the amount of time, effort, and money involved, I am sure it would have tainted my Rock Band experience as well.

Since you are in the midst of various returns/replacements, might I humbly suggest giving everything a final try once you do get a working set of hardware. No one deserves a faulty set of hardware, it is most unfortunate. It would be equally unfortunate to throw away a top caliber title because of a bad first impression.

[Nate Finch]

I think you should give them another chance for the hardware issues. By all accounts the guitars are leagues better with the new strumbar. I don't know about pedal replacements, however.

About the locking.... there just have been way too many complaint threads. They're not hiding anything.. everyone knows the hardware is having problems. We just don't need a new thread about it every 5 minutes, especially outside the Tech Support forum.

As for the XBox failing and DLC not transferable. That definitely sucks. I really try to not be fanboy, so take this in that light - if you want a rock solid console for Rock Band, try the PS3. It's like stupidly reliable. Mine runs Folding@home 24/7 when I'm not playing, and has for 6 months. Whatever else anyone has to say about the machine, it's fail rate is extremely tiny. Plus, the DLC is downloadable to up to 5 machines and is available offline.

BTW, buying a TV for HD games it not that unusual. I did it when I bought my PS3 in June.

[LongDarkBlues]

That's a good idea - I'd be willing to collect emails from people with similar experiences (there's a couple on here for sure) and present them - assuming they were reasonably written and coherent - to people at the bigger game news sites.

[teh_roc]

I dont see why youd buy an HDTV for a rhythm game. I personally would only play on standard def. Even calibrated I can still feel the lag there on HD.

[DesiredFX]

LDB,

As one of the people who was forced to replace not just one faulty guitar but also its replacement, I can certainly sympathize, but I don't know that accusations of fraud or even gentle suggestions of class-action suits is the way to go.

Yes, there were multiple designs for guitars, but this doesn't mean that EA knowingly packaged and shipped defective guitars. The redesign may have happened because they felt that the long-term failure rate would be lower with a different strum mechanism, not because they were having excessive incidents of new units failing out of the box. As long as they feel that most consumers won't have the problem--assuming the contracted assembly line constructed the units as designed--it isn't fraud. However, the purpose of this game is to be something you can and will want to play for much longer than the average video game, so perhaps they felt a re-design was in order that would make the longevity they were seeking more likely.

Yes, this is speculation, but so is all the talk of defrauding consumers.

I can't speak to the 360 issues except to say that it sounds like more fuel for my "I don't like Microsoft products" fire.

Not that it helps you any, but now that I have a working guitar controller and can really appreciate this game for what it is, I feel like it was worth the wait and the hassles. Obviously, you've had more waiting and more hassles, and I can't say I wouldn't react as you have under the same circumstances.

It certainly doesn't help that this board seems to have shut down your efforts to vent, though. At the very least, HMX should be a bit more sensitive to those of us who have met with frustrations--extreme frustrations, in your case--where Rock Band is concerned.

[preOwned]

Considering they are replacing all instruments (had my drums replaced) free of charge and sent out via UPS 2 day air, it makes no sense at all to claim fraud. This is costing EA a lot of money.
If the only way you could get a replacement was to purchase one, then yes, you could make that claim.
I am actually quite surprised by EA in this instance as they do tend to screw up everything else.

[LongDarkBlues]

I dont see why youd buy an HDTV for a rhythm game. I personally would only play on standard def. Even calibrated I can still feel the lag there on HD.
I have had zero lag for the instruments with the default LCD setting running at 1080p - and you'd really notice on the drums if it was off even a bit - it's just the processing of the vocals lags behind the instruments.

[Highlandlassie]

To preface, I have now had, first, to buy 2 sets of rockband to play both guitar and bass, had both guitars die, both pedals break, and now a microphone die.
Frustrating?
Yes, but let me tell you that EA has been great on replacing the defects, and I reinforced the new pedals, they will last forever.

For all the problems, I still think that in all my videogaming years, starting with Pong, I have not enjoyed a game more, EVER.

As for giving up on this game, I say, that you will only be cheating yourself out of, *in my opinion* the greatest videogame created to date.

As for the Xbox 360, most know those things are a piece of junk, reliabilitywise.

That issue is not the fault of Rockband.

I feel your pain, but dont give up, and be patient the rewards are great.

Please don't come on here and threaten.

This is a phenominal game that may have been rushed to market, but the support has been excellent in my opinion, and the dynamics of having 4 friends together playing this game with realistic audio, recreates the Rockstar experience to a tee.

[Magnet]

The only thing I bought for this game was a PS3, and almost everything in my experience with it has been great. Sorry to hear that your elaborate plans for the game didn't work out for you.

It's very, very unlikely that the closing of the topic in question had anything to do with your post. The topic was in Tech Support, and the only thing the topic creator accomplished was whining about faulty equipment. It had very little reason to remain active in a forum that was not designed for such fruitless topics.

Your points about EA biting the bullet, recalling, and preparing for lawsuits are quite frankly silly. They are already offering free replacements for any faulty hardware, not to mention a free additional game for some people for their inconvenience.

But what's most important here is that NO ONE knows how "massive" the hardware failure rate really is. It could be 60%, 30%, or 10%. The only thing we have to go by are testimonials from people who come to the message boards to complain about their faulty equipment. All of those with perfectly working equipment do not have any need to come to the message boards and complain, thus, we never hear about them. There are currently no figures available to anyone about how small or large hardware failure rates are.

Also, I do think it's kind of sad that your last two paragraphs amount to thinly veiled threats. Threads can be locked for a variety of reasons, and given the nature of this thread it could easily erupt into pointless flaming at some point in the future, which would need to be locked regardless of the thread's original merits.

And I suggest you seriously reconsider your position on the game in the coming days/weeks/months. Don't let a personally bad experience with some faulty hardware dissuade you from enjoying the game with fully functioning hardware in the future. Many people with fully working hardware will tell you how great this game is, and to throw it all away forever because you were unlucky enough to get faulty hardware as an early adopter would be a shame.

[ManOwaR]

that was a clearly written tale. I feel the pain you are emoting. Best luck to you.

[resident360]

we played all night - it was great fun and everyone had a blast.
This is why I bought Rock Band and despite hardware failures on my Strat and bass drum pedal (both of which have been replaced) I continue to love Rock Band. It sucks, but early adopters have to take some lumps for our eagerness.

I also got the RRoD the day before Bioshock was released, so I feel your pain.

[army_of_me]

Wow it sounds like everything that could go wrong, did, in your situation. That really blows.

To me, it seems like they could only be losing money and respectability by churning out defective instruments, but who knows.

And I can actually see why they might close down duplicate complaint threads, if there's already a designated venting area. As long as they use a gentle touch...

All in all, I agree things could've gone better but I think the people on the website are trying to handle it the best they can.

[LongDarkBlues]

...As long as they feel that most consumers won't have the problem--assuming the contracted assembly line constructed the units as designed--it isn't fraud. However, the purpose of this game is to be something you can and will want to play for much longer than the average video game, so perhaps they felt a re-design was in order that would make the longevity they were seeking more likely.
Thanks for the reasoned response. I think, at this point, it's a naive to assume that the guitars weren't shipping knowingly defective. Everyone acted like the brightly colored notice slipped into the top of the box was just a standard product replacement sheet, but in retrospect it seems pretty clear that was put there at the last minute when they realized the hardware was terminally flawed. It seems like if it was simply a standard warranty reminder, it would have gone in the game manual at the back. Besides that, there was months of almost total failure within days at all the Best Buy kiosks.

But more importantly, even on launch when people were opening their guitars there were multiple designs shipped - and now, as we can see, there was a whole other design in the works. The game was pretty clearly rushed to market to make the Christmas season and to beat Rec Octane to their next Guitar Hero iteration (which will presumably be slightly less incompetently made and pose more of a threat) and that they used every piece of faulty prototype hardware they had available and passed it off like they didn't know.

When I speak of fraud and class actions, I'm merely pointing out what would happen if this happened with a new car launch, or a toaster, a film knowingly shipped out a movie where half of the reels were missing they'd refund the tickets, or any other industustry.

[capitalfn9]

The question that I have is how come, out of all the reviews I'd read of this game by game magazines and online sites and stuff, no one has mentioned having a faulty guitar or the guitar breaking. That doesn't make any sense to me considering how many faulty guitars are out there. And I believe the fail rate is just as high as it seems and it's not just the people in the forum. I have 4 friends who have purchased the game and all 4 of them have had guitar problems. It can't just be a coincidence.

[sporkBrigade]

When EA stops shipping free instruments 2nd day air to people, I will consider the possibility that this was all done on purpose to scam us. As it stands now, EA loses money on every single guitar returned. If they did this on purpose, then Fraud isn't their biggest problem. Stupidity is.

An attempt at Fraud and a Mistake are two different things. You can still be mad at them for their mistakes, but don't turn it into something it's not.

[capitalfn9]

It's definitely not fraud. But if it's not, then you have to chalk it up to being stupid and trying to rush a product out the door.

[Bakkster]

It seems like if it was simply a standard warranty reminder, it would have gone in the game manual at the back.

And how many people ACTUALLY read the warranty notices in the back of the manual? Seems just as logical that they just wanted people to read it.


When I speak of fraud and class actions, I'm merely pointing out what would happen if this happened with a new car launch, or a toaster, a film knowingly shipped out a movie where half of the reels were missing they'd refund the tickets, or any other industustry.

A car or toaster would likely be recalled/cause a class-action lawsuit if:
1) They were dangerous
2) There was no plan to replace them
That's not really the case here.

Again, I hate to see you getting rid of a game that you clearly enjoyed just because you had the perfect storm of problems. I hope that once the feeling of frustration subsides you'll give things another go.


I have 4 friends who have purchased the game and all 4 of them have had guitar problems. It can't just be a coincidence.

Do they all live in the same area? Perhaps your store got a bad batch of bundles.

[geo2n2]

I'm totally in the same boat with the original poster. I want to love the game, hardware, etc, and I'm not being purposefully inflammatory, but the hardware is garbage.

I just started using my second replacement guitar, and within an hour the overdrive now starts going off immediately as soon as there's enough to activate it. The guitar was perfectly horizontal when I plugged it in and I play solo sitting down with the guitar firmly in my lap so it barely moves if at all.

I also finally got good enough to play on hard on drums, only to discover my drums aren't picking up rolls or fast hits.

Stupidly, right before my latest replacement guitar started acting up, I ordered a replacement set of drums. So, now I've got potentially 3 $125 holds on my card, and still have a bum guitar.

p.s. the guitars I received both looked very suspiciously like refurbs. My second replacement even has those little green sticker on the back.

As soon as I get the drums, I am going to try to return this to Best Buy and get my money back. EA can eat any money they lose via retail replacement, because this is ridiculous. I'm not taking any more of their faulty replacements.

[Electric_Zen]

There are a lot of whiners on this forum, but LongDarkBlues is not one of them.

If Harmonix has lost LongDarkBlues, then they have got a problem.

My XBox RROD'd five days after I got the game, and I am also vexed by the "DLC tied to the old XBox" problem (for the record, this is entirely a Microsoft issue. Harmonix can do nothing about it). My Strat went three days after I got the game, and of course it took a while for the replacement.

After the cost of the game, I have spent $25 on drum pad silencers, $15 on DLC, and $30 on a mic stand. I'm going to need to lay out $50 on the drum carrying case, and probably $10 for an extra guitar strap for my son. Much more DLC to come, and I have already accepted that one day I will be investing in a higher-quality drum kit when it becomes available. If I were tight on money, I can certainly see how this would get to be a deal-breaker for me.

Because of logistics, supply, and price, it takes a lot of patience and planning to enjoy this game. And I have certainly enjoyed the game. Each night, my family is always anxious to play. Much like Wii Sports, the center of focus is not the TV screen, but the room where everyone is playing. And after the kids go to bed, I can get online and have fun playing with my 'hardcore' gamer friends as well. Harmonix's love for music bleeds out of the game, and gives you a great feeling that can't be matched by capping a few Spartans.

My concern is that Harmonix wants to position this as a mass market item, and right now it is too high-maintenance to be mass market. Harmonix is going to have to mercilessly work their production lines to ensure that the peripherals going forward are of stellar quality, and that new customers have a very clean out-of-the-box experience.

And I think Harmonix can pull it off. You can tell when a company doesn't give a crap about you so long as they get your money (Red Octane), and when a company has a deep personal investment in making sure that you have a great product experience (Harmonix). For all of the mistakes they have made along the way, I have convinced myself that Harmonix has got my back, and so I'm going to stand by them.

[Frederf]

It does sound like the world has conspired to defecate over your Rock Band experience in as many ways as it could. I mean not only the primary companies had their share of failures but Microsoft, postal companies, as well well.

I'm no expert singer but I'll take your word that the mic setup has problems. Even if it did I doubt it would be with the mic itself, but what do I know. I figured the processing is where any lag is and that wouldn't be in the mic.

My drum pedal is likely not going to crack but is definitely very loose about the hinge and just plain unsettling to use.

The Rock Band enthusiasm to replace sub-par hardware has likely bitten them since it looks like they are at the limits of their capacity to fulfill their promises. And promises rightly made since the hardware is quite clearly rushed.

About the DLC, was transferring hard drive contents an option in the repair/replacement process with your XBox? If not, I cry foul. Also I found that bringing my hard drive to be the only solution to playing a game on another box.

P.S. I also find the moderators' actions to be ever so slightly on the wrong side of intrusive. Sometimes they are allowing discussion to take place in a sane manner but other times they are actually getting their noses into the discussion themselves with strategic locks.

[LongDarkBlues]

...Your points about EA biting the bullet, recalling, and preparing for lawsuits are quite frankly silly. They are already offering free replacements for any faulty hardware, not to mention a free additional game for some people for their inconvenience.

But what's most important here is that NO ONE knows how "massive" the hardware failure rate really is. It could be 60%, 30%, or 10%. The only thing we have to go by are testimonials from people who come to the message boards to complain about their faulty equipment. All of those with perfectly working equipment do not have any need to come to the message boards and complain, thus, we never hear about them. There are currently no figures available to anyone about how small or large hardware failure rates are.

Also, I do think it's kind of sad that your last two paragraphs amount to thinly veiled threats. Threads can be locked for a variety of reasons, and given the nature of this thread it could easily erupt into pointless flaming at some point in the future, which would need to be locked regardless of the thread's original merits.

And I suggest you seriously reconsider your position on the game in the coming days/weeks/months. Don't let a personally bad experience with some faulty hardware dissuade you from enjoying the game with fully functioning hardware in the future. Many people with fully working hardware will tell you how great this game is, and to throw it all away forever because you were unlucky enough to get faulty hardware as an early adopter would be a shame.
You raise a lot of good points. The threat about relating this story to the outside is legitimate - I'm not kidding - but the issue for me is that this is following a pattern very similar to Microsoft's avoidance of the 360 failure issue. Closing these threads with a blanket 'sorry for the inconvenience' is not enough - I appreciate the sentiment, but it still suppresses the information that is clearly relevant to a lot of current and potential by burying it deep in the forum.

While the gesture of replacing broken hardware is a fine one, a necessary one, the practice of knowingly selling faulty hardware to artificially increase holiday sales with the expectation that all will be forgiven with a hopefully-less-poorly-manufactured replacement while our millions of dollars are collecting interest in their banks and invested in their stock portfolios is a horrific business practice. I bring the Xbox failure into this only because of the similarities.

Let's see in 2 or 4 more weeks how many people with fully working hardware are out there. If you want to see this board really get messy, just wait until the tech-incompetent parents who bought this game for their kids open them up on Christmas and 2 days later half of it is broken. Also, to the person who reinforced their drum pedal - it's been stated here that will void your warranty. So I hope you are right that it will last forever.

[espher]

Murphy's Law.

[ShadowOfEden]

As for the XBox failing and DLC not transferable. That definitely sucks. I really try to not be fanboy, so take this in that light - if you want a rock solid console for Rock Band, try the PS3. It's like stupidly reliable. Mine runs Folding@home 24/7 when I'm not playing, and has for 6 months. Whatever else anyone has to say about the machine, it's fail rate is extremely tiny. Plus, the DLC is downloadable to up to 5 machines and is available offline.


I own a PS3, but the PS3 version of Rock Band is not without flaws. The original poster would have been enjoying 3 player (and 2 players) bands for the lack of compatiblity.

[S1ashRev]

Just get a PS3 and the PS3 version of Rock Band. You will not have to worry about RRoD, DLC being assigned to one machine, and you'll get the new version of the Rock Band hardware.

I used to love my X360 but after seeing five of them die I switched. So I am not against the X360 just their 33.3% failure rate. I will actually get another one once they finally fix the problems they are having.

[DesiredFX]

If you want to see this board really get messy, just wait until the tech-incompetent parents who bought this game for their kids open them up on Christmas and 2 days later half of it is broken.

This has been my biggest concern since I first discovered my guitar controller was defective and that I was far from the only one with problems: I wanted all the issues behind me before Christmas hit, because I expect at least 25% of units sold so far haven't even been opened. Yet another holiday crush I didn't want to get caught up in.

Given EA's scramble to get things up and running, there isn't much point in assessing fault when they've fully taken the blame for every hardware problem to date. Even if they knew the guitar controllers were prone to a higher-than-desirable defect rate, at some point the scale tips between "bring back all units shipped" and "fix it after the fact." It isn't simply a matter of expense, but also one of practicality and public perception.

Like you, many of us have been waiting eagerly for this game--many, such as those with PS2s and living in Canada, are still waiting eagerly for it. Is the cost of public perception greater if you bump the release date for two or three weeks in the holiday season or if you have to replace an estimated 10% of the hardware (which most companies perceive as a HUGE defect rate)? If you elect to ship and grit your teeth and the defect rate turns out to be closer to 20% or even 25% (and I just made up those numbers...I have no idea what the rates really are/were), then your gamble turned around and bit you in the butt.

That's not fraud, and it's not even stupidity: it's a company suffering from a decision made using anticipated factors that turned out to be more problematic than they appeared to be.

This isn't anything new for companies all over the world: estimating is the process of making a reasonable guess based on known factors, and, as with any guess, it has a chance of missing the mark. In this case, it's frustrating for consumers because it apparently missed the mark by a wide margin that has the folks in EA support scrambling to keep up with it.

[KaYotiX]

Sorry to hear your troubles...mine has been flawless since day 1, 360 is also running like a champ. Elite 360.

I love gaming right now!!

[Thrashdragon]

The threat about relating this story to the outside is legitimate - I'm not kidding - but the issue for me is that this is following a pattern very similar to Microsoft's avoidance of the 360 failure issue.

First, your "threat" is making an otherwise well written series of posts sound rather juvenile. Major gaming blogs check out forums like this one all the time. There's no big dark secret here...the "Rock Band Got Me Evicted" thread even got a write up on Joystiq and Kotaku, and that was buried in the General forum. They've also done articles on the replacement program. Besides, they're not going to take the word of a dissatisfied customer and post it as gospel on their site. They enjoy close relationships with developers and publishers and are not going to jeopardize that without doing their own research.

Secondly, thank you so much for inspiring hundreds of posters to think that threatening to "blow the lid off" the "conspiracy" will keep moderators from locking their three-hundredth post about Canada or the PS3 Les Paul or their broken instruments. :rolleyes:

Finally, in order to prevail in a civil lawsuit you have to prove damages. Good luck proving that despite the money that EA is losing on this replacement program, the game's release constitutes intentional fraud on their part, or that your faulty Rock Band instruments caused you physical, mental, or financial harm. Maybe you should stab yourself in the foot with your broken pedal. Then you'd have a case.

[Electric_Zen]

Just a little anecdote. In the late 90's, I was leading a technical team, and we were doing our first rollout of high-profile commercial websites. I was working crazy hours, and was deeply invested in the success of these projects.

There were some unacceptable performance problems on these websites when they launched. To the outside observer, it was reasonable to assume that I realized I was rolling out a defective website, and being deceptive or fraudulent in not telling the client ahead of time about the problems.

The truth is more complex. My lack of experience in doing high-volume websites meant that I didn't have the kinds of quality controls and automated testing that would have clearly identified these issues ahead of time. And I had developed a bit of tunnel vision, coming down the home stretch so that when performance problems were apparent during acceptance testing, I convinced myself that I had identified and implemented quick fixes that would completely address the underlying causes.

A couple of days before the game launched, when early reports of guitar problems were coming in, Dan made an unofficial post where he said that the problems were going to be fixed by a release-day patch. I doubt that Harmonix had complete visibility into the production lines, and I think Dan honestly convinced himself that he had found that quick touchup that was going to fix everything on launch day, just like I had with my big website.

This has all the telltale signs of a situation where Harmonix is in a bit over the heads on an insanely ambitious product rollout (I predicted weeks ahead of time that without a proper beta, the new RockBand.com was not going to launch in November).

For me, Harmonix also has all the telltale signs of a company that is deeply passionate about getting things right, and not giving up until they do.

[capitalfn9]

Good points. It's just a very unfortunate set of circumstances and it's going to get way worse (Christmas Day) before it gets better.

[LongDarkBlues]

First, your "threat" is making an otherwise well written series of posts sound rather juvenile. Major gaming blogs check out forums like this one all the time. There's no big dark secret here...the "Rock Band Got Me Evicted" thread even got a write up on Joystiq and Kotaku, and that was buried in the General forum. They've also done articles on the replacement program. Besides, they're not going to take the word of a dissatisfied customer and post it as gospel on their site. They enjoy close relationships with developers and publishers and are not going to jeopardize that without doing their own research.


Yeah - I can see that. You can see it as juvenile, I suppose, but as a consumer out a lot of money, it's really my only course of action except to just shut up and take it. And, yeah, I'm sure a lot of those sites are skimming these, as well as potential buyers, but locking reasonable threads about hardware problems silences us and hides it from them - and maybe you if you run into trouble, too.

When I mention class actions, I'm mostly referring to after the 60 day warranty. Considering the problems here, it's way too short, and here's no way that Microsoft willingly extended their 360 warranty without being under duress of pending legislation. That's where the financial damages come in - when knowingly faulty hardware falls out of warranty. If you bought it on launch day an don't open it until Christmas your window is suddenly a lot smaller to get your gear replaced.

Oh, and to be clear, EA isn't losing money on this - they just aren't making quite as much. Anyone checked on how their stock is doing these days? I don't know - I 'd be real curious.

[Bakkster]

And, yeah, I'm sure a lot of those sites are skimming these, as well as potential buyers, but locking reasonable threads about hardware problems silences us and hides it from them - and maybe you if you run into trouble, too.

Just as an FYI to the rest of us, could you link us to a few of these locked threads? Most of the locks I've seen were duplicate threads which could have been placed in an already open thread, or those that had devolved into random flames or useless chatter. Maybe I missed something?

[Katdaddy]

I absolutely feel the OP's pain. Especially on the DLC "bit". My original 360 died, and it took about 6 hours of my time, as well as escalating the complaint all the way to Redmond to the desk of the "Director of Consumer Affairs" to get my 360 replacement and DLC situation straightened out. I even had them pull the recorded phone call.

Only after informing them that I'm a writer/reviewer for the Atlanta Journal/Constitution Technology section (frequently reviewing games, consoles, etc.), did someone "man up" and take care of the problem. But that's another story for another post.

Frankly, everytime I play, I feel like a kid again. I'm 36 years old, and I LOVE rocking out with my 8 and 11-year old daughters....nothing like hearing your 8-year old sing "I Think I'm Paranoid", and she's spot on...scoring in the 90's on medium.

However, I cringe everytime I hear my child say, "I strummed that note, and it didn't register", or I strike the blue pad, and it doesn't give me proper credit. I immediately start worrying about the hardware quality, and its' lasting ability. How can you not with so many complaints? I know it is hard to really "know" the failure rate, but it's happening, and apparently on at least a somewhat routine basis.

I BABY all of my electronics. My original Xbox lasted me 5 years. However, I'm already on my 3rd Xbox 360, and the next failure will probably result in a PS3 purchase. I hate that, because I love the 360 library.

I am really "knocking on wood" regarding the Rock Band hardware. I can stomach one replacement, and chalk it up to "oh well", but when we start digging into our 2-4th "go-round", it sours me.

Here's to hoping...

[CollegeDropouts]

I agree with nearly everthing this guy has to say. I am now on my 6th, count it, 6th drum kit, with the 7th in the mail. It IS insane. I've said to everybody I know, if they couldn't get it right, delay the game until it's perfect. I'd rather still be trolling info on the game than dealing with the frustration of a broken kit. Guitars are HORRIBLE. Last night at BestBuy I told them they need to tell EA to recall the game. There are SO MANY RETURNS and SO MANY PROBLEMS.

This is one of the greatest local multiplayer games I've ever played, and I love the game. I haven't even came CLOSE to being able to max out scores and enjoy some of the finer points of the game. My band has only been able to get together TWICE since the game came out, and last night was going to be our third session, but the BRAND NEW pads I got from BestBuy OUT OF THE BOX were worst than any I've ever gotten. I went from 100% songs on Expert like Suff.City, Main Offender, Blitzkrieg Bop, and 99% songs like Enter Sandman, Highway Star, Flirtin' With Disaster... to 89%. I couldn't even pass won't get fooled again because of the pad's, and as some of you know, I'm one of the few drummers on here who can actually get 5 stars on that song.

The only thing I disagree with here is giving up. Never give up. Return, return, *****, *****, return until they get it right. In most cases people who whine and cry are babies, but in this situation, I feel like you are 100% totally, undeniably, insanely, warranted.

To the people on PS3 who couldn't even play with 4 people unless they had two seperate kits, and were FORCED and maybe still are FORCED to play with the Strat..... I can't even imagine.

Just wanted to toss out my support bro. HMX rules, RockBand rules.... they just need to pick up the pace on getting **** right.

[Electric_Zen]

By the way, I do think the comparisons to Microsoft's handling of RROD is unfair.

Microsoft completely denied the problem existed for over a year. When people continued to complain, Microsoft blamed the end users, and suggested that consumers were causing the problem or lying about it. When people like me sent in the broken XBox, Microsoft would just send back someone else's broken XBox, which would promptly break. 18 months after the 360 launched, they said they became 'recently aware' of the problem and rolled out the new warranty program. To this day, Microsoft has never said what corrective action they have taken in the production process to address this.

Yes, the defective guitars should never have been rolled out. But Harmonix / EA immediately acknowledged the problem, and sent out replacement guitars that actually fixed the problem. This is a world apart from what Microsoft did.

[tombrady]

I'm trying to keep patient and respectful of HMX because I enjoy the hell out of this game...it's Microsoft who I have beef with.

My drums don't work well but I've got those replaced so w/e, I can live with that.

It's the fact that my 360 ****ing ate my Rock Band disc...gave me the scratch ring of death around it. And no, I didn't tilt the Xbox while it was on with a game in it...I'm not stupid.

And conveniently, I cannot replaced scratched discs because Xbox only allows that policy for a few games...so I have to drop another 60 bucks on a new game.

I always laugh when people justify not being a PC gamer because of instability or crashing etc....I've gone through 2 Xboxs...my computer is top of the line and custom, and I haven't had a problem with it yet. Xbox 360 is BY FAR the most unstable console I've ever had to deal with...seriously pathetic how many stupid ****ing glitches the thing has.

[Highlandlassie]

Just so you know, a properly reinforced pedal should last much longer than a 60 day warranty.
My diamond plate pedal would withstand the roof collapsing on it.

It sucks that we should have to re-engineer the product, but breaking pedal after pedal costs EA more money.
They should applaud the repairs, that saves them money, not punish those who do it.

[JimmyJamz]

I am on my fourth Xbox360, and I am on my 2nd Rockband guitar. However, I can not put this game down since I bought it at a midnight release party. Sometimes when you have an addiction, you will do anything to get your fix.

W1ndahs

[Rook_x51]

I don't like the portability restrictions on XBLive content either. My DVD drive is borderline failing and I am hesitent to get it replaced just because of that. In any case, it seems you were unlucky enough to hit the exact worst case scenario for this sort of thing. It is too bad.

I have tried to put myself in your shoes, and think how I might react to what is a certainly lousy chain of events. With the amount of time, effort, and money involved, I am sure it would have tainted my Rock Band experience as well.

Since you are in the midst of various returns/replacements, might I humbly suggest giving everything a final try once you do get a working set of hardware. No one deserves a faulty set of hardware, it is most unfortunate. It would be equally unfortunate to throw away a top caliber title because of a bad first impression.

I will miss the donkey avatar.

On a related note, I'm hoping the replacement hardware goes good for you and you get to come back and tell us all how you are rocking out!

[Majic19]

but locking reasonable threads about hardware problems silences us and hides it from them - and maybe you if you run into trouble, too.

When they lock a thread it is not deleted, so no one is trying to silence or hide the fact that they have a problem. Anyone can do a simple search and bring up ALL of the dozens of threads that have registered complaints about faulty equipment. So no-one is being censored or "shut up" just because they voiced a compliant, even if the thread is locked.

From what I have seen the threads only get locked when the conversation turns ugly and the name calling begins. So far, this thread has remained fairly civil. The OP's original post voiced a concise and logical complaint and the responses, even though some have been in disagreement, have also been civil, and respectful. Thus this thread has not been locked.

As far as threatening law suits; Class action suits over product liability are very hard to prove and even more difficult to prove fraud. Even if Harmonix knowingly shipped out a product that would absolutely fail, it would still be a very tough case, if not an impossible case to win. To prove product liability you would have to show that the company knew of the problem and then refused to honor any warranty. Harminix is replacing ALL defective equipment free of charge. That makes it even that much more difficult to prove fraud.

Is it bad business practice? Well, again you are ASSUMING that they knew there would be HIGH rate of failure and shipped anyway. Even if they knew there would be ANY rate of failure, the fact that they are bending over backwards to improve and replace any faulty equipment, free of charge, shows that they are a company that at the very least cares about their customers. Also, allowing product exchanges without requiring you to first return the damaged equipment is also a sign of their good faith to rectify any problems. And finally, in most case of product returns, you can usually expect up to 90 days before you ever see your new replacement product. Harmonix is getting replacements to their customers in as little as one week and in worst case it's been two to three weeks. That is pretty good customer service by anyone's standards.

I can totally sympathize with your frustration, especially compounded by the fact that your 360 took a dive, but like many other posters have said before, Harmonix is really trying to make this right by you and all of their other disgruntled customers. They have produced a great game that even you admit that you really enjoy, so give them the chance to make it right. I know patience is growing thin with many customers, but three/four weeks since the release date is relatively very short period of time, and Harmonix is doing a great job of honoring their commitment to their customers.

[LongDarkBlues]

...

Thanks for another great response - I've enjoyed greatly discussing this you guys.

Admittedly, I have no interest in personally pursuing any legal action - I just don't care that much. I suppose we'll have to see how it pans out, but from many accounts on here the equipment being sent out as replacements is equally random in it's construction as the launch - reports of numerous returns of defective parts (7 drums?? really?) it seems like the limited warranty is primed for legal troubles.

I genuinely believe that the HMX guys that monitor this bard are doing the best they can, and we all know that the software is (except for that damn mic lag) fantastic, but they released - or were forced to release, more likely - a product clearly well before it was ready for public consumption and as a guys said in the original thread that was locked (which was quite civil, mind you) we're paying for the privilege of being beta testers for the hardware. If there was any testing done at all within 2 days it would have be obvious that the guitars fail rapidly and within a week that the drum pedals are far too fragile.

I don't really see how there's a lot of gray area about the prior knowledge that the hardware was faulty. It was widly reported here before launch for over a month, and I only followed through with my preorder because HMXSean said outright that the Best Buy guitars weren't the same as the supposedly improved ones shipping. I think we can pretty much take that as, at best, an optimistic half-truth, but most likely he was told a lie to tell us by his supervisors so we didn't all jump ship before the launch. That seems pretty fraud-y to me... Hmm... i wonder if that thread still exists? Anyway...

It's selling a product that doesn't work and masquerading it as one that does - the promise of it working someday is not sufficient, you know? We purchased something that was advertised as functioning, and it doesn't. I don't see how any of us should be shouldered with having to spend our time working to fix their failure - and I have zero confidence that the replacements are going to be any better. Early reports that I've read here have been damning, and it's going to be months of reports here before we have any idea whether the new equipment actually functions reliably. And by that time many of our warranties will have expired.

There was something posted a couple weeks ago about the replacements only having 30 day warranties - does anyone know the status of this rumor?

if i had a new car that needed to have the clutch replaced 3 times in a month, even if the manufacturer paid for it, I'd still be out of a car for a month and with such blatant reliablility issues I'd expect the manufacturer to refund it.

[LongDarkBlues]

Oh, for anyone who cares, and just because I mentioned it earlier - here's the EA stock chart - a huge pre-holiday buildup and then a steep drop off around Rock Band-trouble time. Still, though, the highest it's been since 2005. EA is not losing any money here:
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=ERTS&t=5y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=

[Eman311]

I agree with nearly everthing this guy has to say. I am now on my 6th, count it, 6th drum kit, with the 7th in the mail. It IS insane. I've said to everybody I know, if they couldn't get it right, delay the game until it's perfect. I'd rather still be trolling info on the game than dealing with the frustration of a broken kit. Guitars are HORRIBLE. Last night at BestBuy I told them they need to tell EA to recall the game. There are SO MANY RETURNS and SO MANY PROBLEMS.

This is one of the greatest local multiplayer games I've ever played, and I love the game. I haven't even came CLOSE to being able to max out scores and enjoy some of the finer points of the game. My band has only been able to get together TWICE since the game came out, and last night was going to be our third session, but the BRAND NEW pads I got from BestBuy OUT OF THE BOX were worst than any I've ever gotten. I went from 100% songs on Expert like Suff.City, Main Offender, Blitzkrieg Bop, and 99% songs like Enter Sandman, Highway Star, Flirtin' With Disaster... to 89%. I couldn't even pass won't get fooled again because of the pad's, and as some of you know, I'm one of the few drummers on here who can actually get 5 stars on that song.

The only thing I disagree with here is giving up. Never give up. Return, return, *****, *****, return until they get it right. In most cases people who whine and cry are babies, but in this situation, I feel like you are 100% totally, undeniably, insanely, warranted.

To the people on PS3 who couldn't even play with 4 people unless they had two seperate kits, and were FORCED and maybe still are FORCED to play with the Strat..... I can't even imagine.

Just wanted to toss out my support bro. HMX rules, RockBand rules.... they just need to pick up the pace on getting **** right.


1. how the hell have so many drum kits been sent over such a shot period of time?

2. do you realy think it's coincidence so many have broken, and it's not something else?

[toefer]

BTW, buying a TV for HD games it not that unusual. I did it when I bought my PS3 in June.

I kind of did the same thing, though it was geared more toward movies. I love watching movies, and I've wanted a widescreen TV for years, to watch movies on. So when I graduated from college, I splurged and bought a PS3 and a TV.

[CollegeDropouts]

1. how the hell have so many drum kits been sent over such a shot period of time?

2. do you realy think it's coincidence so many have broken, and it's not something else?

I have only received one in the mail so far, the second mail sent kit is on its way now. The others have all been returns to Best Buy. It's not about breaking a kit, it's about faulty hardware.

If you receive your drum kit and there is cardboard between the head and bass of the pads on red and green, you have a first or second gen kit. Most of these pads were cut wrong, and for that reason they allow too little or too much vibration to activate.

If your cardboard was between the HEADS of Red+Yellow, and Blue+Green, you got a 3rd gen pad, and chances are it's going to work fine.... except for your red pad. The pad won't allow you to roll, and you'll have to tape it down. Taping it down can be tricky, because too hard - everytime you hit yellow, there is a chance red will tap too.... too soft, you won't hit 100% of the time.

Too many factors for faulty instruments. Bottom line is, I wish they waited until these things were flawless.

*For you non believers and the guys out there saying "mine works perfectly"..... Try out your instrument on Expert, where there are greater series of notes, both for guitar and drums... then tell me you kit is flawless.

[batsu336]

- I tried to use the new Xbox to play the game. Unfortunately, apparently now you can't even boot up the Xbox without being connected to a broadband connection. So I had to go into work - I'd taken the day off to play! - and spent the next couple hours waiting for the Xbox to do it's firmware update (for, you see, we're heavily firewalled and I can't open a port on the router for Live so it's astonishingly slow).

Uhhh....what?

I don't even have broadband access and I required no firmware update...

Even if you do need a firmware update, the updates are incorporated onto the game disks themselves. You do not need to go online to get them. You simply accept the update and it downloads it from the game disk. Takes about 30 seconds...did a few in the past on other games...No wonder this guy had such a hard time; he's looking online for something right on the disk.

[Hanover]

I took the pink piece of paper as saying,

"Hey, there's a lot of Sh** in this box. If something goes wrong, that means you're going to have to box all this sh** up and take it all back for one small broken drum pedal. Hey, we have an easier way to do this so you're not bothering the retailers who have a limited supply of them. Call us, we'll SEND IT TO YOU...and you only have to box up the part thats broken!"

Its like when the belt on your dryer breaks...you don't send the dryer in for a replacement, you get a new belt.

Rock Band is a big bundle...lots in it...heavy box...its in it's own league as far as videogames are concerned. I've never bought any title that had this much stuff in it. I can see why EA made sure there was a way to replace individual pieces.

By the way, whats the name of your "Medium Sized" Record Label?

[el33tcapitan]

The one thing I've got to say about this is:

Consider some of the upsides.

Microsoft has a system that is sub-par when it comes to QA at the moment. They increased their warranty to 3 years at no cost to you. You can get it replaced at no cost. There is a modest amount of time you must wait, but it's done free of charge.

The Rock Band equipment has failed on a large number of people. They offer free replacements. It's possible that their 60-day window might extend, but for now, that's still pretty impressive. FREE replacement. You can even get a replacement shipped to you without sending yours in before it arrives. It's a shame that their first line doesn't hold up to abuse, but thankfully they have EA on their side and they're doing a great job of getting these things out to you.

It could be that my broke college self is just impressed with the word free. Heck, it could be that I'm just not able to properly sympathize because none of my launch equipment has broken (which doesn't keep me from still cringing every time I miss notes on the guitar and freaking out that it might finally be the end).

In the end though, I find that Harmonix, EA, and Microsoft are being about as reasonable as they can be without getting ripped off by the multitude of people who would try to do so. I don't understand why your issues with the game have so turned you off to the very notion of playing Rock Band. I'd be pumped to start playing again once the repaired equipment got back in. I just don't understand what kind of point you're making by returning your Xbox and the game. All you're saying is "This doesn't work and I don't even want it when it does." Why? When it does work, it's fantastic. I promise. Don't miss out on one of the best games of this year just because you have to work a little to get it to work.

And remember, no matter how much I tried to change it, the voting public hates people who cut and run. So just stick with it and the surge of replacement equipment that you'll be receiving soon will fix all the problems.

[LongDarkBlues]

Even if you do need a firmware update, the updates are incorporated onto the game disks themselves. You do not need to go online to get them. You simply accept the update and it downloads it from the game disk. Takes about 30 seconds...did a few in the past on other games...No wonder this guy had such a hard time; he's looking online for something right on the disk.
Brand new 360, would not even go to the main menu on the first boot before a message pops up that says it needs to be updated. If you said no it would take you the main 360 dashboard, but if you put a disc in it would not let you play anything without demanding the update. Its an Xbox thing, not a Rock Band thing.

The label is medium sized for an indie, as in smaller than Sub Pop but big enough not to lose money - it's here (http://yerbird.com/) if you care.

[Maggot_Brain]

Everyone vote here: http://community.rockband.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=12453&page=4

With all these hardware issues, no way is 60 days enough time. Are they going to leave us all hanging on January 20? That's going to be the real test.

[LongDarkBlues]

...I suppose its more like "This doesn't work and I don't even want it if it does." The general level of deceit and ineptitude has drained all the confidence I had that this ever going to be resolved in any timeframe that's reasonable. I don't want to spend the next 6 months waiting on hold and redialing EA after customer support repeatedly drops my calls, I don't want to keep trying to figure out where UPS delivered my RMA box, I don't want to repeatedly have to wait 4 weeks to get a new drum pedal, or repeatedly have $125 held from account, or any of the associated whatever - maybe in a 6-8 months this all be resolved, but I'm generally just tired of these companies treating us so badly.

Where you praise them for their quick shipping turn around time (though I've been waitings for weeks) I see they screwed us from the start and did so knowingly. They rushed the game to line their pockets before Christmas and its absurd that, fun as game might be, we're expected to just take whatever crap they dish out and do it with a smile. I'm tired of it, and opting out entirely. I'm not afraid to sacrifice a bit of fun to make that statement, minor as it is.

What this really is, is that they've sold us out. They took our money and gave us broken junk knowing we'd buy it anyway because we trusted them.

[Wilson12466]

I feel way sorry for you. But I haven't got it. read my sig.

[osirisbunnyfoofoo]

While the original post is definitely the worst case scenario, this whole equipment issue is ridiculous. There is NO WAY they did 'extensive testing' unless they played only on a non-HD tv and never used the same peripheral for more than an hour. My guitar broke, and so did its replacement. The mic lag makes hard and expert literally un-playable. When I was just thinking "at least my drums are OK", the pedal snapped in half. At least I get a free EA game for my trouble. I hope the list is good.
Anyway, this is literally THE most excited I had been for any game EVER (except maybe for Guitar Hero 2) before its launch. I pre-ordered it about half a year before it came out. I checked Wikipedia everyday for the song list and was heard screaming "HOLY SH*T! NEVERMIND!" and "FINALLY! PIXIES!" by my family when those songs got announced. And now Rock Band has also become the worst experience I have ever had with a game at launch. It's such a shame.

[AVC808]

Brand new 360, would not even go to the main menu on the first boot before a message pops up that says it needs to be updated. If you said no it would take you the main 360 dashboard, but if you put a disc in it would not let you play anything without demanding the update. Its an Xbox thing, not a Rock Band thing.

The label is medium sized for an indie, as in smaller than Sub Pop but big enough not to lose money - it's here (http://yerbird.com/) if you care.

sorry to go off topic a bit, and im not even a 360 owner so i dont know how it works, but honestly, how can you be forced to have internet to play a game system? the only time youre prompted for firmware updates on the ps3 is if you attempt to go online. otherwise you get no prompt and can continue using the machine to play whatever you want. i would assume the 360 would be the same. there would be lots of pissed off people with a brick in their internet-less house.

[gamingeek]

Honestly this launch has been an unmitigated disaster for most involved. The PS3 has no compatibility yet they still sold standalone versions. The instruments are cheaply made and fundamentally flawed. And the customer service has been less than timely. At this point all I want is a refund.

[rice4114]

This is posted elsewhere but I love to spread the good cheer!

tech support huh?
Isnt that the name of forum? TECH SUPPORT? Talk about your oxy morons.

Again when I want to do some singing without horrible lag I simply put in any KARAOKE REVOLUTION game and it is right on time.

Im thinking maybe the Karaoke games dont understand the lag my audio system has (this is directed to you Bakkster) and for some reason they all just accidentally play perfectly on time.


Put gas A in your car and it sputters continously.
Put gas B in your car and it runs perfectly.
Seller of Gas A (HMX) suggests: "Sounds like you got a problem with your car!"

At least Bakkster is trying to help I suppose. I think this is a lost thread fellas.

The singers at our rock band parties are done with this game. $170 drum/ guitar sim too bad.

[Bakkster]

sorry to go off topic a bit, and im not even a 360 owner so i dont know how it works, but honestly, how can you be forced to have internet to play a game system? the only time youre prompted for firmware updates on the ps3 is if you attempt to go online.

Actually, at release the PS3 required a firmware update out of the box, before you could play any games...


Im thinking maybe the Karaoke games dont understand the lag my audio system has (this is directed to you Bakkster) and for some reason they all just accidentally play perfectly on time.

I think you're one of the people who can definitively prove that there is something wrong between the mic and the game. It's the information like yours that will help HMX determine where the problem lies and how to fix it.

[ShadowOfEden]

sorry to go off topic a bit, and im not even a 360 owner so i dont know how it works, but honestly, how can you be forced to have internet to play a game system? the only time youre prompted for firmware updates on the ps3 is if you attempt to go online. otherwise you get no prompt and can continue using the machine to play whatever you want. i would assume the 360 would be the same. there would be lots of pissed off people with a brick in their internet-less house.

I'm pretty sure that you'll have a lot of issues if you still use the Firmware 1.00 for the PS3 and try to play every games available now.

[ShadowOfEden]

Actually, at release the PS3 required a firmware update out of the box, before you could play any games...




I don't know what that firmware fixed, but I know for a fact that all launch titles were working even if you wouldn't install the firmware (like if you are not connected)

[dfjdejulio]

the only time youre prompted for firmware updates on the ps3 is if you attempt to go online. otherwise you get no prompt and can continue using the machine to play whatever you want. i would assume the 360 would be the same. there would be lots of pissed off people with a brick in their internet-less house.
You are forced to go online with the XBox if you want to use downloaded content on a console other than the one to which it was originally downloaded.

Both consoles have something going for them in this regard. The PS3 lets you download to 5 consoles other than the original, and once you've done so, you no longer need a net connection to use the content. This is better for people without a constant net connection.

The XBox 360 lets you download to an unlimited number of consoles other than the original. Literally no limit, and you can redownload as many times as you want from as many locations as you want. Buddy's house, console at the office, console in a gaming center, console at a party, doesn't matter, no restrictions on infinite re-downloads. The catch is, on any console other than the original one you downloaded to, you have to be on the internet for the content to be active -- DRM turns it off when you're not logged on. This is better for people who do have a constant net connection.

There's pros and cons for both approaches. Myself, I'm very happy that I can throw my profile, game save, and downloaded content on to a memory card and use it both at home and at work without restriction. However, the same setup that empowers me to do this is screwing the OP. Alas.

[LavatoryLoveMachine]

Wow, you must be rich :)

I dont even buy consoles when they come out. They always have problems. I see people also complain about the xbox a lot, and my Xbox has NEVER given me any problems. Either Im the luckiest son of a ***** in the world, or people just mistreat their Xboxs.

[ShadowOfEden]

Wow, you must be rich :)

I dont even buy consoles when they come out. They always have problems. I see people also complain about the xbox a lot, and my Xbox has NEVER given me any problems. Either Im the luckiest son of a ***** in the world, or people just mistreat their Xboxs.

33% still leaves 66% people without problems. That's where the majority is. 33% is horrible compared to most electronics, but it's not the majority.

And I'm not rich, and you don't need to to have two consoles. You only need a full time job. Even after my rent and bills, my pay would still allow me to buy a X360 per week if I wanted to, and I'm only 21. Okay, sure, I would starve and probably wouldn't enjoy much having 24 X360 without any games to play, but my point was that anyone with a full time job can easily save enough money to get the consoles they want.




The XBox 360 lets you download to an unlimited number of consoles other than the original. Literally no limit, and you can redownload as many times as you want from as many locations as you want. Buddy's house, console at the office, console in a gaming center, console at a party, doesn't matter, no restrictions on infinite re-downloads. The catch is, on any console other than the original one you downloaded to, you have to be on the internet for the content to be active -- DRM turns it off when you're not logged on. This is better for people who do have a constant net connection.


Also add that ONLY the user who downloaded the content can play it.

I sold my drum set to my friend who bought the stand alone copy. When there's a party, we're always both invited, so we can usually bring our instruments, but when we're alone, we can practice with our favorite instrument.

I downloaded the Metallica pack and the day after, I went at his appartment, downloaded the pack again and then he could play it from his account. So now he can play the pack whenever he wants and we can play it together online.

You cannot do that on the X360. So if you're a bunch of friends and want to split the instruments, you will all have to pay for DLC. Yes, it something happens to one of the PS3s, you'll only have 1 download left, but considered you paid 1/4 of the price of the pack, it wouldn't be too bad to pay for it again if something does happen twice.

[gsu_paintballer]

This is why I bought Rock Band and despite hardware failures on my Strat and bass drum pedal (both of which have been replaced) I continue to love Rock Band. It sucks, but early adopters have to take some lumps for our eagerness.

I also got the RRoD the day before Bioshock was released, so I feel your pain.

Yea, my first guitar went out. I still continue to play drums till the wee hours of the morning

[LongDarkBlues]

I just wanted to update this to say that I still have not received my replacement guitar or the empty RMA box for the drum pedal - according UPS that still hasn't even shipped.

[okichi]

I just wanted to update this to say that I still have not received my replacement guitar or the empty RMA box for the drum pedal - according UPS that still hasn't even shipped.

LDB: I did receive my replacement guitar recently, but only after I've called them to follow up on the order. I'm not sure what the problem was but seems like it was stuck somewhere and the status never got updated. You may want to give them a call if you haven't already (I haven't had the chance to read through all the posts on this thread). Best of luck.

Now if they would just come out with a mic fix...

[sdpearso]

I just received my replacement about 40 minutes ago.

I plugged in the guitar controller...

Turned on the game...

IT'S FAULTY OUT OF THE BOX.

Can you believe this? It's actually worse than the original guitar.

Harmonix/EA/MTV Games,
If there are 3 different designs, pick the one that works and send it to me. I'm through with the others.

[Lord_Beelzebub]

Thanks for the reasoned response. I think, at this point, it's a naive to assume that the guitars weren't shipping knowingly defective. Everyone acted like the brightly colored notice slipped into the top of the box was just a standard product replacement sheet, but in retrospect it seems pretty clear that was put there at the last minute when they realized the hardware was terminally flawed. It seems like if it was simply a standard warranty reminder, it would have gone in the game manual at the back. Besides that, there was months of almost total failure within days at all the Best Buy kiosks.

But more importantly, even on launch when people were opening their guitars there were multiple designs shipped - and now, as we can see, there was a whole other design in the works. The game was pretty clearly rushed to market to make the Christmas season and to beat Rec Octane to their next Guitar Hero iteration (which will presumably be slightly less incompetently made and pose more of a threat) and that they used every piece of faulty prototype hardware they had available and passed it off like they didn't know.

When I speak of fraud and class actions, I'm merely pointing out what would happen if this happened with a new car launch, or a toaster, a film knowingly shipped out a movie where half of the reels were missing they'd refund the tickets, or any other industustry.


Was the above bolded big text information you knew about before or after you bought RB?? You said in your opening statements that you had been following this games progress a year in advance.

If you was that on top of the news, headlines, the 'goings on' about this game all that time then surely you would have known about all the failure rates before you bought the game yourself. Surely you didn't know all these bad things and still went out and bought the game anyway. Cause if you did, you really have no one to be pissed at but yourself.

So take me for example, I don't have this game yet, would love to have it but I've been reading these forums for a week and all the consistant problems people have been having. Now If I went out and bought this game tomorrow and a guitar breaks or the bass pedal snaps on the drums, is it fair for me to come out here and rant and accuse HMX and EA of ill will and it's all their fault??? Or is it my own stupidity cause I knew of the issues yet I bought the game anyway knowing the chances of these things were great and would most likely happen to me??

Now if that's what you did, then sorry you have no one to blame and be mad at but yourself. If that's not the case and you didn't know before hand, then that's a different story. Either way I do feel for you cause the bottom line is the product shouldn't have went on the market in such a crappy condition that it did. I do think HMX and EA knew that bad faulty equipment went on the market thus that nice orange notice right at the top of the box as soon as you open it. They knew and they know it. And I'm sure it's like you said, holiday season, profit time of the year. I tell you one things that is true accross the board, software companies are getting away with murder with their products and duping the consumer. "Oh the game isn't 100% ready but we'll put it on the store shelves for Christmas and we'll patch it later" This has become commen practice in the software industry and I strongly think laws need passed to change how this industry does business and guidlines need to be put in place to prevent things like this from happening. I think this game fits into that catagory. Yes the issue is with the equipment, but the equipment is sold as a game (software) not truely as a piece of equipment (tv, car, toaster, etc.) so the same product quality control guidlines don't apply. I don't know this as fact but reasonably to me this seems the case.

And lastly, you people seriously need to STOP being early adopters of products. Yeah I know it feels cool to be the first to have a new product...but virtually every time you guys bite the bullet. You buy a product that is over priced because it's new, and it predictably has bugs/glitches, not to mention the headaches of returns, replacements, waiting for patches to fix the issues, etc. I learned a long time ago to let the other fools be the first to buy and me be the wise consumer and learn from you mistakes...thus why I don't have this game yet and why I don't by most things as soon as they come out.

The best lesson there is, is a lesson learned. If you guys keep being early adopters and things like this keep happening to you and yet you still do it, your not learning your lesson and again you have no one else to blame but yourselves.

I've waited this long for RB, I can wait a little longer. I'd rather wait than deal with all the crap you guys have been dealing with. I'm probably going to get this game mid Jan or Feb. I'll keep visiting these forums and other websites to see how things progress, see how much better and durable, and relyable the equipment gets made, etc. THEN, it will be worth the 170 dollar price tag and I'll be willing to pay it.

Thanks.

[LongDarkBlues]

And lastly, you people seriously need to STOP being early adopters of products... I'll keep visiting these forums and other websites to see how things progress, see how much better and durable, and relyable the equipment gets made, etc.

But if there's no early adopters, then you can't sit on the sidelines and act all superior because you won't have any of this experience and knowledge from other people to inform your decision. Dur.

In regards to your bolded text, sure we all knew that, but Harmonix themselves came on here and said they were shipping different guitars than the ones at the Kiosks. They flat out lied to us, simple as that.

[djthebandit]

But if there's no early adopters, then you can't sit on the sidelines and act all superior because you won't have any of this experience and knowledge from other people to inform your decision. Dur.



Very true!

[angry_jonny]

Everyone vote here: http://community.rockband.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=12453&page=4

With all these hardware issues, no way is 60 days enough time. Are they going to leave us all hanging on January 20? That's going to be the real test.

Just to be pedantic, it's actually January 19.

I wonder if EA will be pedantic, too.

[LongDarkBlues]

Does anyone know the status of the replacement warranties? Is it a new 60 days? It's astonishing to see so many threads here about faulty replacements - more than anything I've experienced, that's made me glad to have boxed up this game and stopped considering even trying to make it work with the replacements.