PS3 block making its way to 360?

[Maggot_Brain]

Here's the rumor: Somebody, be it Activision or Harmonix forced by lawyers, is going to put out a patch on the 360 to STOP the Les Paul or Explorer from working with Rock Band.

I think you might want to address this rumor and refute it as quickly as possible. (And sticky it.)

If this turns out to be true...... well...... I'm done with music games.

So please, help a rocker out!

[Hanover]

Is that Activision stock I hear plummeting?

[foolosophy]

If this turns out to be true, I will set fire to my GH3 and vow to never purchase another Activision product as long as I live. Disgraceful.

[admanimal]

If this turns out to be true...... well...... I'm done with music games.



Why would you shun all music games just because one company is potentially doing something stupid?

[SoKGiX]

theres no way, NO WAY, this is true

activision CAN NOT patch rock band. simple as that.

besides, all you'd have to do is just not DL'd the patch

[eVan_Diesel]

I hope they do, just so you 360 owners can feel the pain that us PS3 owners feel....

[Eman311]

If it is a patch it would have to come from HMX.

who would definetly put up a very strong (and long) fight to prevent this.

it won't happen. removing compatibility would lead to serious mutiny.

also, where's your source?

[Parodygm]

theres no way, NO WAY, this is true

activision CAN NOT patch rock band. simple as that.

besides, all you'd have to do is just not DL'd the patch

Ahhh, can't they just file a lawsuit? That would be a pretty quick way to get Microsoft and EA to the "okay we'll patch" party.

Don't get me wrong, this would ****ing suck (and I'm a PS3 owner who's already getting shafted) and I'm glad that at least half of us currently get to have some choice of controllers.

[Maggot_Brain]

If it is a patch it would have to come from HMX.

who would definetly put up a very strong (and long) fight to prevent this.

it won't happen. removing compatibility would lead to serious mutiny.

also, where's your source?

EGM podcast was mentioned.

[polishdog90]

Because of this post I am never playing GH3 while being connected to the internet again.

[DesiredFX]

It could be done without patching RB:

Say Activision creates a patch for GHIII for the 360 that includes a small program that loads itself when you boot up the 360. This program looks for the LP controller and allows signals to come through it as long as you are on the dashboard. As soon as any game but Guitar Hero III is loaded, the program cuts off or alters signals from the LP.

Programmers can always find a way.

[admanimal]

Because of this post I am never playing GH3 while being connected to the internet again.

Why? In order to stop the LP from working in Rock Band, they would issue a patch for Rock Band, not GH3.

[sushi111]

Thats disgusting. I honestly hate the Strat but hell I would sell my Les Paul and GH3 right away if anything like this happened.

[Aly_Michalka]

It could be done without patching RB:

Say Activision creates a patch for GHIII for the 360 that includes a small program that loads itself when you boot up the 360. This program looks for the LP controller and allows signals to come through it as long as you are on the dashboard. As soon as any game but Guitar Hero III is loaded, the program cuts off or alters signals from the LP.

Programmers can always find a way.

There's no way MS would allow Activision to run processes in the background of the dashboard like that.

[xizorhutt]

first off I am deeply sadded for all you ps3 owners even though I hate sony you should not be shafted like this after buying a game. I dont think us 360 owners have a lot to worry about thou because in order for GH3 to get to use microsofts wireless they had to make it a open format because of the rules that microsoft made for them to get it. If I am a PS3 owner I start writing and calling sony to put pressure on them to get activision to open up like microsoft did. I would also flood activison with calls and emails showing my distaste for what there doing. I also want all you 360 and wii owners to put down your guns and stand behind our PS3 brothers and sisters and also make these calls and email in a show of soliadarity.;)

[admanimal]

There's no way MS would allow Activision to run processes in the background of the dashboard like that.

That was my thought exactly.

[Quastor]

Just my two cents on this.

The Les Paul is compatible on the 360 because that and the Strat share a common ancestor - the X-Plorer. Now, Harmonix rightful owns code in which uses the controller interface for the X-Plorer, and now, the Les Paul. There may not be patents, but there sure is prior art. To patch out the Les Paul, from what I understand, would in also patch out compatibility with the X-Plorer.

Ain't going to happen.

[DesiredFX]

As I said when I first brought it up in another thread: that idea is the result of 30 seconds of thought by a non-360 programmer.

And given the great job that MS does with making their software bulletproof on PCs all over the world, I think there's more going on behind the dashboard than people realize...

[Ultrace]

This is an unsubstantiated rumor which does not hold up under any sort of logical scrutiny, as noted in the posts above, and amounts to pot-stirring and fearmongering. Let's please abandon this thread. :)

[Frederf]

theres no way, NO WAY, this is true

activision CAN NOT patch rock band. simple as that.

besides, all you'd have to do is just not DL'd the patch

While I doubt that this would happen (source would be nice), Activision doesn't need to have access to Rock Band in order to patch it. Through sufficient legal means Company One can force Company Two to do something.

Not DL'ing the patch sounds simple but software updates have a nasty habit of "requiring" such things in order to participate in any online functionality. You'd pretty much have to pull your net cable every time you started Rock Band if you wanted to be really sure.

[admanimal]

And given the great job that MS does with making their software bulletproof on PCs all over the world, I think there's more going on behind the dashboard than people realize...

Well you are probably right that it's technically possible, but the issue would be that MS has to approve any patches so there's no way for this to just slip in there without them knowing.

[capitalfn9]

This clearly isnt going to happen.

[Parodygm]

This clearly isnt going to happen.

Doesn't seem clear to me. Legal pressure could quite simply be brought to bear to force a patch. Then you might be required to load the patch to be able to connect to the Rock Band servers, ie. patch or no online component.

I'm not saying it's likely, I'm saying it's quite feasible.

[Hanover]

Kokatu posted a headline that says:

Activision Blocks Rock Band Patch, Kills GHIII Guitar Support

and people are taking "Kills GIII Guitar Support" to mean that they're killing 360 support, but thats not what the story says. It means they are killing GHIII support on the PS3.


While I doubt that this would happen (source would be nice), Activision doesn't need to have access to Rock Band in order to patch it. Through sufficient legal means Company One can force Company Two to do something.

Not DL'ing the patch sounds simple but software updates have a nasty habit of "requiring" such things in order to participate in any online functionality. You'd pretty much have to pull your net cable every time you started Rock Band if you wanted to be really sure.

[Electric_Zen]

The source of this rumor is at the 1:38:20 mark of the 1UP Yours Podcast for 12/07/2007.

Shane has one of his 'hot rumors'. These 'hot rumors' are correct 20% of the time and bullsh*t 80% of the time. The patch rumor falls into the 80% category.

He explicitly claims that Activision is 'working on a patch' to disable the Les Paul from working on the Rock Band 360.

This is not going to happen. Activision does not get to patch Rock Band, and they do not get to patch XBox firmware. And it is impossible to develop such a patch without access to the Rock Band source code, which Activision does not have.

[DesiredFX]

...and amounts to pot-stirring and fearmongering. Let's please abandon this thread. :)

But the pot of fear I mongered was just beginning to come to a boil!

[DesiredFX]

Well you are probably right that it's technically possible, but the issue would be that MS has to approve any patches so there's no way for this to just slip in there without them knowing.

True. But that doesn't mean that Activision couldn't use the EULA they devised for GHIII to wrangle MS into giving in on a point or two, especially if they used the clout that their pending merger gives them...

I'm not saying MS would be okay with what amounts to a controller-disabling virus, but they might actually be able to talk them into something that clears the boards where the LP is concerned unless GHIII is running.

But, yeah, I'm basically fear-mongering and pot-stirring...probably a little bit of leftover annoyance over Activision's attitude toward the patch...

Everyone in the gaming world knows that this is a foolish, foolish anti-consumer move that grows out of Activision's need to protect their franchise in the short run. What they're failing to recognize is how it will cripple that same franchise in the long run.

[Parodygm]

Why shouldn't a PS3 patch be released unless Activision have actively threatened legal ramifications over it? If they have, what possible legal grounding are they going to have by attempting to block controller use on one specific console?

I submit that if the PS3 patch gets nixed then a reversal on the X-box compatibility is a very real possibility. Unless there's a technical reason, design differences or intellectual property issues between the two that I'm missing.

[Xzyliac]

If this is true I'm pulling out my XBL connection whenever I play RB. It's seriously just not worth it I don't care what they put in the new updates.

[Feigned]

I'm amazed at how quickly the confirmation of one rumor breeds a new one. :(

I doubt there's anything to worry about here. The controllers work now, there's no reason they'd spend any more of their money or resources on making it not work.

[MaximusDM]

Not to sound like a jerk, but if this happened I would at least feel a little bit better knowing that the Xbox 360 users were in the same boat and then they could just as well share their hate with Activision.

And as someone stated in a previous post. Activision can force Harmonix to release a patch like this if threatened with legal matters. Though I think Harmonix would fight back and win, but it seems logical that they could want to do it. I just don't think it would happen. Period.

[Parodygm]

I'm amazed at how quickly the confirmation of one rumor breeds a new one. :(

I doubt there's anything to worry about here. The controllers work now, there's no reason they'd spend any more of their money or resources on making it not work.

I'm not spreading a rumour. I'm simply saying that it's a possibility that it could happen.

Okay, let's say you're right and there's no point in reverting 360 compatibility. Why shouldn't Harmonix/Sony release the PS3 patch and claim that "hey you don't care about the 360 controllers working, what's the problem?"

Honestly, Activision are going to have a hard time blocking this long term aren't they if they allow it on another platform?

[snobrder218]

I'm not spreading a rumour. I'm simply saying that it's a possibility that it could happen.

Okay, let's say you're right and there's no point in reverting 360 compatibility. Why shouldn't Harmonix/Sony release the PS3 patch and claim that "hey you don't care about the 360 controllers working, what's the problem?"

Honestly, Activision are going to have a hard time blocking this long term aren't they if they allow it on another platform?

I hope this is what they do. Or someone goes "oops, I just 'accidentally' sent out the patch...my bad...everyone has it now."

[DesiredFX]

Why shouldn't Harmonix/Sony release the PS3 patch and claim that "hey you don't care about the 360 controllers working, what's the problem?"

If no legal action has actually been taken by Activision against this patch, this is not that far out of the realm of possibility.

In fact, part of the deal to keep Sony from releasing the patch might turn out to be something that disables the LP (and possibly the Xplorer) on the 360 to eliminate any competitive edge compatibility gives the 360.

Again, this is all just speculation, but given that "the impossible" or "the ridiculous" actually happened and Activision did turn out to be blocking the patch, we should prepare ourselves for the possibility of something equal and opposite happening to the 360.

[filterban]

It could be done without patching RB:

Say Activision creates a patch for GHIII for the 360 that includes a small program that loads itself when you boot up the 360. This program looks for the LP controller and allows signals to come through it as long as you are on the dashboard. As soon as any game but Guitar Hero III is loaded, the program cuts off or alters signals from the LP.

Programmers can always find a way.

What you've described is a rootkit.

Yes, it could be done... but...

Activision would not be allowed to do so because Microsoft would not be a happy camper if their Xbox OS had been compromised. Sony (somewhat ironically) did a similar thing by having a rootkit install itself when a user put a copy protected music CD in their PC.

Security hole, anyone? Bueller?

So, I don't think this is going to happen. They would take a lot of heat (a hell of a lot more than they're taking now) including possible legal action.

[Transbrak]

guess ill just have to stop playing gh3....oh wait, i havent played it since it came out.....not a problem then

[SlowGears]

OMG it is the end of the world holy cow man. Could this Rumor be more then just that. I doudt it

[lpunderground19]

Crappy news, hope this isn't true. My Strat broke in a day and my parents (for some reason) haven't gotten a replacement ordered yet. And I don't even have an LP, I have two Explorers.

Activision is just jealous if they do this. GH is totally different without Harmonix at the reigns. I don't know if you all agree, but GH3 didn't have the replay factor that made the other GH games so much fun. I just have no desire to play those charts ever again, like I do with Rock Band and GH2 (which I've played a few times since RB's release).

[DesiredFX]

What you've described is a rootkit.

Wow...someone already named what I was thinking of...heh heh heh...


So, I don't think this is going to happen. They would take a lot of heat (a hell of a lot more than they're taking now) including possible legal action.

Yup, I know. I just had the grumpies at the time.

Now, what about a patch for GHIII that also sends data to the Les Paul updating its firmware to look for a compatibility code from game software before it will run...?

Yet another little idea that occurred to me with only a few moments' thought.

[Lareden]

Not to sound like a jerk, but if this happened I would at least feel a little bit better knowing that the Xbox 360 users were in the same boat and then they could just as well share their hate with Activision.

And as someone stated in a previous post. Activision can force Harmonix to release a patch like this if threatened with legal matters. Though I think Harmonix would fight back and win, but it seems logical that they could want to do it. I just don't think it would happen. Period.

Come now, the 360 guys have enough to suffer through with their hardware failures and overpriced peripherals. And just because there is a vocal minority of 360 users that constantly bash the PS3 and love to kick us while we're down time and time again, doesn't mean we should return the favor. Rejoice that something actually works on one game system at least.

Oh and regarding the OP... can't you just not install the patch (if they made one)? I've never encountered a manditory game patch.

[SoulScreme]

Heh, it would make all the 360 owners feel how screwed us PS3 guys got. So, I say go for it. I hope Activision sues Harmonix and they are forced to do it. Would put a grin on my face to see all the jerk 360 owners who have been on this board talking trash put in our situation.

[DesiredFX]

Oh and regarding the OP... can't you just not install the patch (if they made one)? I've never encountered a manditory game patch.

Several 360 owners have said that in order to play 360 games online, your software must be updated with the latest patches. Enforces compatibility, I guess.

The suggested "solution" if a patch is implemented is to take your 360 offline before starting up RB.

[Angel-Jin]

I just thought I'd share with all of you that we started talking about this over at another big music gaming forum [bemanistyle.com] and one of the regulars are talking about reports/rumors of a patch that will prohibit use of 360 GH controllers.

again, this is a rumor so take it with a grain of salt. just know that if it happens, you were warned.

[Teh_Nfsjunkie91]

**** WILL GO DOWN.

I really dislike the strat, and I would be severely angered if I couldn't use the Les Paul.

[Electric_Zen]

Heh, it would make all the 360 owners feel how screwed us PS3 guys got. So, I say go for it. I hope Activision sues Harmonix and they are forced to do it. Would put a grin on my face to see all the jerk 360 owners who have been on this board talking trash put in our situation.

You're an ass. I'm a 360 owner who just wrote Activision, and expressed my displeasure with them for holding up the PS3 patch.

In the other threads, the 360 owners have been expressing outrage and similarly spamming Activision.

Nice to know that if our positions were reversed, you would just be laughing and telling me to go suck it.

[rockst01]

There is no way activision could do this since it would require a patch for Rock Band.

[Angel-Jin]

There is no way activision could do this since it would require a patch for Rock Band.

they took TAC to court for making GH controllers. They can require a patch to block THEIR property from being used by other parties in other software platforms.

[DreamCycle]

You're an ass. I'm a 360 owner who just wrote Activision, and expressed my displeasure with them for holding up the PS3 patch.

In the other threads, the 360 owners have been expressing outrage and similarly spamming Activision.

Nice to know that if our positions were reversed, you would just be laughing and telling me to go suck it.

Yeah, there are jerks on both sides of the "console war".. I, for one, appreciate the support of yourself and other 360 owners.. and I'd be writing Activision if the roles were reversed..

[ChaosElement]

theres no way, NO WAY, this is true

activision CAN NOT patch rock band. simple as that.

besides, all you'd have to do is just not DL'd the patch

Not DL the patch? Then you can't go online.

[Kingfish]

Heh, it would make all the 360 owners feel how screwed us PS3 guys got. So, I say go for it. I hope Activision sues Harmonix and they are forced to do it. Would put a grin on my face to see all the jerk 360 owners who have been on this board talking trash put in our situation.

You see, this exposes a real problem...the 360 or PS3 are not 'competing' for anything. Both of us are owners and game enthusiasts and should be pulling for the same thing, to make RB last as long as possible and ensure that more great games follow.

You are asking to harpoon your brother...this is like two guys in a foxhole, your gun jams and your "buddy" is still shooting and keeping the enemy at bay. You respond by stabbing him in the side..."there, that'll teach ya to still be able to shoot when i can't". And then the enemy overwhelms your position!

If Activision 'wins'...PS3/X360 alike looses and potentially, RB folds because of it(which is EXACTLY what Activision wants).

Keep the hate going...that’s always best man.

[espher]

Heh, it would make all the 360 owners feel how screwed us PS3 guys got. So, I say go for it. I hope Activision sues Harmonix and they are forced to do it. Would put a grin on my face to see all the jerk 360 owners who have been on this board talking trash put in our situation.

Congratulations on 700 worthless posts.

[Kingfish]

...I'm a 360 owner who just wrote Activision, and expressed my displeasure with them for holding up the PS3 patch...Nice to know that if our positions were reversed, you would just be laughing and telling me to go suck it.

I hear ya man...I too have sent a few emails both to Rectem-vison and to many of my X360 friends...most only play Rainbow Six or Halo but they ALL have responded back saying they too will write and express their dismay about how this is being handled. We all think its terribly unfair to the PS3 owners.

A lot of support from the 360 community is also being fired up on this...but it gets harder with every wise ass post i read tho.

[ForTheSteel]

Activision sure does suck, and if this rumour is true then they officially have no souls.

[davidshek]

If this rumor were true, why would they stop at just the Les Paul? If the goal is to "put the PS3 and 360 RB players on a level playing field", they would also have to try to disable the Xplorer from working with RB.

So tell me, ideamongers, how would they manage that one? ;)

[Angel-Jin]

Activision sure does suck, and if this rumour is true then they officially have no souls.

but what they lack in metaphorical spirit, they make up for with real money. i'm sure they wouldn't mind. and all this will do is send accessory sales through the roof. not for me though, i'll probably just let my LP + Game collect dust.

I'm thinking about just going back to importing Guitar Freaks & Drum Mania. It'd be a lot more money down the road, but at least I'll never have to deal with this nightmare again. BEMANI FTW!!!! :)

[DreamCycle]

All this does from Activisions financial standpoint that I can tell is lessen the value of their hardware peripheral.. if it only works with their game.. a game that is getting overshadowed by Rock Band, compatibility issues or not.. maybe I'm missing some angle here.. but all it really accomplished was trying to make Harmonix look bad, but it has certainly backfired 1000 fold at this point.. I know lots of people that have bought the Guitar Hero 3 bundle primarily to use the les paul as the second guitar in Rock Band.. and sure, while you're at it, its nice to have as many games that you can play with expensive controllers anyways.. but since compatibility is out the window, I only see this hurting Activision.. especially once the standalone Rock Band instruments are available

[logicalnoise]

Well if MS complys(and I see no reason why they would or even could) I'm pretty sure EA and MTV games will have grounds to sue and win back their licensing fees and likely millions in damages. The licensing agreement works both ways. ANd with MS and teh 360 it ahs all teh little details like stuff about XBL support patches, bandwidth costs, etc. It's a very sticky situation. The key thing is that HMX developing their game and their patch using tonly their own code. Unless there's a lawsuit nothing can ro should be done to RB on 360.

PS I'm also very certian that if MS was even humoring this Alex and Peter Moore(Pres of EA game devlopment and former Head of teh 360 gaming branch) would be calling for blood.

[davidshek]

Activision sure does suck, and if this rumour is true then they officially have no souls.

And if this actually happens, I'll be getting in my car the very same day to return GH3 to Best Buy (the one here is very easygoing about refunds for that game, I returned my Wii GH3 there last month with no problem). I'm sure many others who bought GH3 within the return period of their various retailers would be doing the same. Activision stands to lose quite a bit of money in returned product if this does happen.

[Seroth]

I'm not sure how they could do this, short of making new controllers that don't work on Rock Band. I mean, I don't think there's anything they can do to existing 360 guitars that already work with Rock Band...

[logicalnoise]

I'm not sure how they could do this, short of making new controllers that don't work on Rock Band. I mean, I don't think there's anything they can do to existing 360 guitars that already work with Rock Band...

the idea is that allegedly(though now likely) Activsison wants ot force a patch on Rockband that removes support for the Les paul controller. However it may not even be technically possible much less possible for MS to actually break their own licensing agreements.

[CRCError]

Red Octane/Activison would file a legal injunction against Harmonix/EA citing something along the lines of "failure to obtain a license" to use their hardware.

If HMX/EA wanted to avoid a legal battle they would voluntarily patch the game to remove the functionallity.

If HMX/EA wanted to fight it, it would be up to a judge or some other arbitration to come to an agreement that could be decide for or against the usage of the hardware.

Honestly - at this point I would rather HMX not fight it and let RO be idiots. RO/Act will find out down the road that preventing their hardware to work with Rock Band is a serious mistake.

[logicalnoise]

Red Octane/Activison would file a legal injunction against Harmonix/EA citing something along the lines of "failure to obtain a license" to use their hardware.

If HMX/EA wanted to avoid a legal battle they would voluntarily patch the game to remove the functionallity.

If HMX/EA wanted to fight it, it would be up to a judge or some other arbitration to come to an agreement that could be decide for or against the usage of the hardware.

Honestly - at this point I would rather HMX not fight it and let RO be idiots. RO/Act will find out down the road that preventing their hardware to work with Rock Band is a serious mistake.

mmm maaybe, this explains why They would supposedly no demand that MS force a patch on teh 360 version of rock band since them allowing the 360 version to support the les paul and x-plorer would open it up for any of their hardware. However I still don't see how HMX is infringing on the hardware license. They made it with their own code. It doesn't specifically break anything in the controller from not working or violating the DRM that's inherit in the controller. Plus again 100% of the code is HMX's and derived from their code not Activisions.

[CRCError]

I'm not a legal expert by any means - But Activision states on the package that they expressly do not grant a license for the purchaser to use the GH3 controller on any game except ones published by Activision.

Now whether this is an really a legally binding agreement or not - I have no idea. Just because Activision makes a statment in their license agreement, it doesn't make the conditions of the agreement legally binding.

That's up to a judge to decide.

And if you are against this - I would suggest you go over to the Official Guitar Hero 3 Forum (http://www.guitarhero.com)
and add your comment to the PS3 Guitar Compatibility (http://www.guitarhero.com/forums/7/forum_topics/24631) thread.

[DesiredFX]

And if you are against this - I would suggest you go over to the Official Guitar Hero 3 Forum (http://www.guitarhero.com)
and add your comment to the PS3 Guitar Compatibility (http://www.guitarhero.com/forums/7/forum_topics/24631) thread.

It's going to be really, really hard for Activision to continue this stance given that they're indirectly paying for one of the boards that displays such animosity toward their decision.

Notice that Activision has been notoriously quiet about this whole thing, and that there are no indications that anything but the threat of legal action occurred. Somewhere in Activision HQ, a team of lawyers, accountants, and lawyer/accountants are crunching numbers to try to quantify the negative impact of this decision rather than allowing a bit of humanity into their hearts and seeing--as is so obvious to everyone else in the world apart from lawyers, accountants and lawyer/accountants--that allowing this patch to be released is the right thing to do.

In a sort of tiny sense, anyway. Not in a "this will promote World Peace" sort of sense.

[MorningThief581]

I'm not a legal expert by any means - But Activision states on the package that they expressly do not grant a license for the purchaser to use the GH3 controller on any game except ones published by Activision.

Now whether this is an really a legally binding agreement or not - I have no idea. Just because Activision makes a statment in their license agreement, it doesn't make the conditions of the agreement legally binding.

That's up to a judge to decide.

Yeah, that's clearly the crux of this whole problem, and the legality of enforcing proper use of a product after it's already been purchased seems highly suspect to me. Either way, I try to keep as civil and polite as possible on message boards... but Activision must be run by a bunch of douchebags if they think they're doing themselves any favors with this. Do the people at Activision even like music? First they try running the GH franchise into the ground, and then they prevent music gamers from using GH hardware to enjoy a much better music title.

Activision should look at it this way. Eventually HMX will get their hardware kinks worked out and standalone strats will be available for purchase. When the dust settles and everybody's having fun with their readily available and fully functional HMX hardware, people will forget about the great downstrum debacle of Xmas '07... but they will remember the company that intentionally and maliciously made legal moves to block gamers from enjoying one of their big holiday purchases.

You can live down the design and manufacturing learning process. You can't live down being a bunch of *******s. :)

[CRCError]

You can live down the design and manufacturing learning process. You can't live down being a bunch of *******s. :)

Man I agree with you there! I'm really kind of at the point where I could give a rat's ass what Activision does. Regardless of what they do I'm never going to buy a Les Paul for my PS3.

Mostly because when I think about it, I wonder what's going to happen when another game developer decides to make a music based game? HMX has clearly stated that they want an open standard for their controllers.

At this point it would be REALLY easy for Bemani to make a Beatmania for the PS3/360 and release a kit with their game that Rock Band users might buy for head to head play or for that matter not even mess with making a kit and let people use the RB kit for Beatmania exclusively.

In any case I'm done with the GH series. I bought them all up until now for my PS2. I guess the fun had to end sometime. At least I got Rock Band now.

[Paradox]

heres the problem I see with having a "patch"...its not going to reach every system. How many are not connected to the internet, how many people are without XBOX live? Theres only one way for any patch to be applied short of delivering a disc to the house of everyone who owns a 360 plus GHIII plus Rock Band. Making sense, yet? Its all but impossible to have this done.

[HPLabonte]

this is not going to happen, it could happen through a patch in GHIII that updates the guitar controller, or something... but it's unlikely, and HMX/EA will probably be pretty set against it and fight it.

[JohnnyTurk]

clear the 360s cache, wipes all game updates, play, sorted, this at least is a fix for those who use the strat but want the other guitar for BWT or something

[WiseOldUnicorn]

If they somehow patched the 360 to have the same block as the PS3, I would be PISSED. I mean yeah, I can always refuse the update, but then I won't be able to play GH3 online. And one of the main reasons I even chose to get it for the 360 in the first place is so I could play online with some of my friends in different states.

The whole "exclusive controller" thing doesn't make any sense to me, anyway. I mean, it's like if you bought a steering wheel controller and found out it only worked for Gran Turismo/Forza, you couldn't play any Need for Speed games with it. Racing game fans would never let something like that fly, so why does Activision think rhythm game fans are going to be any different?

[SSPWOLF]

End user agreements......

Microsoft, HMX, Sony, and any other company is not an end user.

We are.

Activision is more than welcome to sue me for using a Les Paul controller in a way other than they expressly intended it to be used. I would enjoy the time spent in a class action counter suit, as I would use the money I win to buy many more Les Paul controllers to misuse.

Let's also look at the history.. when the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA told Microsoft it had to change it's business practices, Microsoft won that battle in court.

I don't think Activisionis going to be requiring anything of Microsoft, nor do I think they'll have the ability to sue microsoft into doing anything.

Microsoft isn't just a successfull gaming company.

It's the most powerful corporation on the planet. That's a fact, a solid engraved in stone fact.

[Maggot_Brain]

Heh, it would make all the 360 owners feel how screwed us PS3 guys got. So, I say go for it. I hope Activision sues Harmonix and they are forced to do it. Would put a grin on my face to see all the jerk 360 owners who have been on this board talking trash put in our situation.

That's pretty uncool of you. I don't have a PS3 and I emailed Activision to complain. We should stand together on this issue.

[SSPWOLF]

....

Wonder why there aren't 1000 Xbox users slinging hate at PS3 users because they get to use the wireless strat.

N/M

I know the answer to that question.

[TheWabbit]

If this rumor were true, why would they stop at just the Les Paul? If the goal is to "put the PS3 and 360 RB players on a level playing field", they would also have to try to disable the Xplorer from working with RB.

So tell me, ideamongers, how would they manage that one? ;)

I'm wondering if the guitars themselves (Xplorer and LP) could be firmware updated. Remap the buttons/controller in a different way and patch GH3 with the new mapping. Activision can threaten a lawsuit if Harmonix tries to patch up the new mapping in RB.

[saunderse4]

Here is the response that I got this morning from Activision about the email I sent in. Doesn't looks like they care to much. If figured when I sent the email that is want I would get back from them.

We enjoy hearing from our customers. Sorry, but this is not a technical issue, and as such, we have no information on it here at technical support. May want to browse Activision.com for any possible future press releases on the matter.

[DesiredFX]

In the other threads, the 360 owners have been expressing outrage and similarly spamming Activision.

Nice to know that if our positions were reversed, you would just be laughing and telling me to go suck it.

While I do appreciate the effort you and many 360 fans are making--you truly don't HAVE to do it...you aren't directly punished or rewarded for any benefit that comes out of this effort--I have to admit that I know where SoulScreme is coming from on this point.

I chose to purchase my PS3 in August because it seemed like an optimal window in which to do it: the price had just dropped, I could still get the 60 GB model with full backward compatibility, and there were two games--Ratchet & Clank and Rock Band--that would be released for the platform before winter.

Despite the relatively short time I've owned it, I still consider myself an early adopter--this generation of consoles is still in its infancy, no matter how you slice it.

In that small window, one of the biggest issues--just behind the buttheads trying to mock me for owning a PS3--has been having to sift through bad ports of 360 and PC games begrudgingly released by developers because Sony was too big a name to ignore. Before long, I began ignoring ports in favor of the small but vital knot of PS3 exclusives that have been released in recent months.

It was hard not to feel disrespected by the development community.

Then Rock Band comes along and the controversy over controllers begins to simmer, slowly. Activision says nothing, but Harmonix comes out with a statement that I now tend to read more as a warning against the possibility of the Les Paul being incompatible rather than a statement of goodness and fair play.

IGN and Gamespot add to the controversy by assuring readers in their reviews that the Les Paul is compatible with Rock Band. Never once do they mention that they--purportedly respectable gaming Web sites--never verified this on the PS3...the "other" launch platform.

Enough confirmation seemed to be in place to get antsy consumers like me to pick up GH3.

Now, most 360 owners know that GH3 is a pretty wretched game. The cheesiness and lack of a real devotion to the frachise by the developers became especially obvious when Rock Band was released. I don't think either side disagrees with that--at least, not on the Rock Band board.

But a lot of 360 owners don't realize that along with the bad choices the franchise made, for PS3 owners, it was just another bad port, with frame rate issues that actually impacted gameplay, a guitar controller with lag problems that appear to be impossible to rectify, and online "support" that results in nearly 100% of cases in "could not connect to session."

After a week with the game, the only thing PS3 owners were left to look forward to was the compatibility with Rock Band.

Which not only never arrived, but which now has been snatched from our very fingertips.

At a time when the PS3 is finally beginning to stand up as its own platform with games like Ratchet & Clank and Uncharted, this continued poor support by developers is downright insulting.

So, in other words, as much as most of us love our PS3s, we are not happy campers when it comes to dealing with developers who treat the console like an afterthought when developing a multi-platform game.

This leads to some anger for some of us.

I've never wished the RROD on a 360 owner, but I won't say I haven't been tempted to when I encounter one that thinks his ownership of the hardware entitles him to treat PS3 owners with discourtesy and disrespect.

And, again, I'm actually quite pleased and impressed with the support 360 owners have shown for PS3 owners on this forum. In fact, where consoles are concerned, this board is something of an oasis in a desert of Internet discussion boards that quickly devolve into war zones.

I'm not apologizing for SoulScreme--it's not my place to do that, anyway--simply trying to explain that with all the **** some 360 owners (and developers) have been trying to feed us, there's bound to be a time for some of us when the temptation to strike back becomes overwhelming.

[AgainstOne]

as much as most of us love our PS3s, we are not happy campers when it comes to dealing with developers who treat the console like an afterthought when developing a multi-platform game.

you actually have sony to blame for this (and nintendo somewhat). you see, from the inception of video game consoles, the console makers mainly just make the hardware and provide documentation as how to use it. they leave it up to the developers to figure out how to tap into the power of the console.

this changed when microsoft entered the arena. microsoft's main gig is software development. they thought, "hey, wouldn't it be helpful to developers to get games out for our system quicker and easier if we provided a full-fledged, robust SDK with it?" so they did. it's so incredibly much easier to make games for the 360 than the PS3.

with the PS3, most devs have to figure it out for themselves, and they miss things that cause glitches and freezes during gameplay. due to the fact that the PS3 is so much more difficult to develop for than any previous console ever, sony really needs to step up to the plate and deliver a full-fledged, robust SDK like microsoft has. it would help developers get better games onto their systems and at a quicker pace.

so if you want to get angry at anyone for the delays and buggy ports on PS3, get angry at sony.

[SoulScreme]

I would like to mention two things.

First, my post was a joke made out of frustration. While there isn't tons of console hate on this board, I am constantly trying to logically express my dismay only to hear "should have bought a 360" or "ps3 is ***" or some other canned response from the Microsoft cronies. It is funny to know that if this problem existed on the 360, the response would be far less rational and calm than my response.

Second, the idea that Sony does not support their developers is ridiculous. They support them in any way possible. The bottom line is that Sony requires good code for a game to run well. Many development houses have gotten by for years writing code that contains hacks and quick fixes. This type of development mentality doesn't work with the cell. Trying to do a rush job leads to issues. You see, the cell depends on concurrency. When writing concurrent code, all of the pieces must work together optimally. This is difficult to understand if you are not a programmer. The platform is not difficult to develop for if you have standards of quality. Sadly, companies like Activision, EA, and Ubisoft allow their standards for quality code to waver when the execs and money makers come into the equation. They want to get the game out the door ASAP and take a "patch it later" mentality. The problem is that now that mentality comes to light even more with the PS3. I don't think Sony is at fault, they are simply demanding quality, something that I appreciate. In reality, plenty of third party games run fantastically. The Darkness, Virtua Fighter 5, CoD4 and Assassin's Creed (Patched to 1.10) run fantastically on the system. So it's not that third party devs are left out in the dark, it's that many of them are lazy.

[SoulScreme]

they miss things that cause glitches and freezes during gameplay. due to the fact that the PS3 is so much more difficult to develop for than any previous console ever, sony really needs to step up to the plate and deliver a full-fledged, robust SDK like microsoft has. it would help developers get better games onto their systems and at a quicker pace.

1) That is what QA is for. It is not Sony's fault that the devs are rushing products through QA.
2) They have an SDK. An SDK cannot account for slacking off and poor concurrency.

[DesiredFX]

with the PS3, most devs have to figure it out for themselves, and they miss things that cause glitches and freezes during gameplay. due to the fact that the PS3 is so much more difficult to develop for than any previous console ever, sony really needs to step up to the plate and deliver a full-fledged, robust SDK like microsoft has. it would help developers get better games onto their systems and at a quicker pace.


Actually, for the last year, Sony has been making an effort to get first-party development tools into the hands of third-party developers. They were a little late to the party (but they could afford to be since the PS2 ruled the universe for so long and they provided next to nothing in the way of tools for it), but they've come to realize that things need to be done differently this time around.

It should be noted that in the last six months or so, the ports have improved significantly, approaching the quality of not only the 360 version but also the games developed from the ground up on the PS3.

Yes, Sony needs to shoulder some of the blame for this one, but, ultimately, the blame has to lie with distributors/developers who decided it was okay to release an inferior product for the platform. In part, I think that decision came from knowing that even a crappy port would sell since there were so few games available on the platform, and in part, I think they thought they could shift the blame onto the PS3's reputation, which took a beating in the months surrounding the launch.

[Iggylove]

Ohh God please don't let this happen. I am a PS3 owner and I have no hate for the 360 owners jamming out with a full band. I am jealous, and sure wish there was a standard across consoles but just leave it be already. At least let some people enjoy the 4 person game.

Also, here is a crazy idea. HMX - Release the stand alone fender controllers and I will never type the word "patch" on this board again :D

So much for getting a band together for the holidays. "ok who wants to play now, I can sit and watch for a while"
~Iggy

[teh_roc]

Let's hope not, I would hate to have to give up Rock Band guitar portions as there are a few great tracks. I hate the Strat.

[Coldplayer]

That's ridiculous. How bad must Activision be to order such a patch? (They ass enough to not allow the ps3 patch)

Besides, if such a patch is coming, just don't download it.

I just can't believe it though.

[FultonPub]

I think this whole 'rumor' is nothing but bs. Nothing could be gained from it. I suspect the podcast where the 'rumor' was mentioned is just a disgrunlted ps3 owner.

[DesiredFX]

I think this whole 'rumor' is nothing but bs. Nothing could be gained from it.

Isn't it just as easily argued that--short of some under-the-table wheeling and dealing--nothing could be gained from blocking the PS3 patch?

[FultonPub]

Isn't it just as easily argued that--short of some under-the-table wheeling and dealing--nothing could be gained from blocking the PS3 patch?

Who has said its being blocked? Just because it hasn't been released yet doesn't mean its being blocked....

[SoulScreme]

Who has said its being blocked? Just because it hasn't been released yet doesn't mean its being blocked....

According to the press release: "The patch remains with Sony, but we have been told that it will unfortunately not be released due to Activision's continued objection."

[FultonPub]

According to the press release: "The patch remains with Sony, but we have been told that it will unfortunately not be released due to Activision's continued objection."

There you have it. I had not seen that info in the previous threads I read. Oh well, sucks to be a ps3 owner. I'll be home tonight rocking out with a full band on my 360. :D

[CaptainCoins]

guess ill just have to stop playing gh3....oh wait, i havent played it since it came out.....not a problem then

Off Topic, but I find this funny. If you look carefully at his signature the icon for GH3 is clearly in his game list. xD

[Ishanji]

I only got up to page 5 before I had to stop reading, because the amount of speculation and fearmongering in this thread is mentally crippling.

1) Activision has no financial basis to try to block the use of Guitar Hero 3 controllers on any console. If people are buying their product, even to use it on Rock Band, it's making them money. There is probably more to the story than anyone knows right now, and hopefully it gets cleared up and a patch is released soon.

2) Activision has no legal basis to threaten a lawsuit against neither Harmonix nor Microsoft. Harmonix made their game compatible with any controllers that chose to conform to a certain set of fairly universal specifications. There is no legal issue with making their game highly compatible, any more than there is an issue with PC game developers trying to make their games work on the widest range of hardware possible. Activision cannot "threaten" Microsoft to release a patch, and furthermore the only patching that could be done is to Guitar Hero 3, not to Rock Band. Patching the controller is out of the question too, unless it contains super-secret internal memory and Microsoft suddenly allows signals from the 360 to push content onto controllers.

Also to the person saying that Activision could just "slip it past" Microsoft because of their often buggy software: Seriously? Do you think a company would deliberately hack past a console's bugs to download a patch? People would clearly find out when their guitars got patched, and Activision would be the one getting sued for violating countless agreements with Microsoft. They would go bankrupt.

So basically: There is no way the 360 is getting a patch that un-fixes its guitars, and I imagine that the PS3 will be getting the compatibility patch sooner or later. It may have just been a questionable implementation of copyrighted code or some other thing that doesn't matter to the gamers (e.g. it still would've worked) but mattered in legal or other terms. There are, barring some conspiracy theories, no reasons for Activision to block the use of the Les Paul, especially considering it's the only option (besides two copies of Rock Band) for PS3 owners right now.

[dfjdejulio]

Here's the rumor: Somebody, be it Activision or Harmonix forced by lawyers, is going to put out a patch on the 360 to STOP the Les Paul or Explorer from working with Rock Band.
The problem with this rumor:

If you have an unpatched XBox and the game as released on release day, it works.

You can always unplug your XBox from the network and then type in a button sequence to remove all the game patches you've installed so far. I have done this. The code is "Y, X, X, LB, RB, X, X". It clears the disk cache (which can help performance sometimes), and whenever I've used it, I've had to re-download any game updates.

So, even if such a patch came down the pipe... they simply couldn't force anyone to actually use it. Activision may want to do this, but it's just not practical.

[DesiredFX]

I only got up to page 5 before I had to stop reading, because the amount of speculation and fearmongering in this thread is mentally crippling.

But...without the fear, what would I monger?


Also to the person saying that Activision could just "slip it past" Microsoft because of their often buggy software: Seriously? Do you think a company would deliberately hack past a console's bugs to download a patch? People would clearly find out when their guitars got patched, and Activision would be the one getting sued for violating countless agreements with Microsoft. They would go bankrupt.

I'm guessing you're talking about me, but apparently missed the part where I pretty much said what you say here. My entire point was that this wouldn't be all that hard to do: I'm a software professional but have never worked with consoles or game-controller peripherals, yet in the space of about a minute I came up with two scenarios that Activision could employ if they wanted to disable use of the 360 LP with Rock Band. I'm certain that someone with more experience and fewer scruples could come up with a whole lot more, all of which would be immoral but few of which would be strictly illegal.

[dfjdejulio]

It could be done without patching RB:

Say Activision creates a patch for GHIII for the 360 that includes a small program that loads itself when you boot up the 360. This program looks for the LP controller and allows signals to come through it as long as you are on the dashboard. As soon as any game but Guitar Hero III is loaded, the program cuts off or alters signals from the LP.
Problems with this:

1) Due to Activision's actions with regard to the PS3, I have stowed my copy of GH3 away, and am not inserting it into my XBox again until the PS3 situation is resolved. This means I will not show up as a GH3 player on the XBL-based game activity/ratings charts, and I will not be tempted to buy GH3 DLC. I know it's only a small token measure to punch Activision in the wallet, but I can't see what else I can reasonably do at the moment. But as a result I won't be getting any GH3 patches until this situation is resolved to my satisfaction.

2) Even if such a patch becomes installed, people know how to remove installed patches from an XBox.

[Bluvox]

Again, this is all just speculation, but given that "the impossible" or "the ridiculous" actually happened and Activision did turn out to be blocking the patch, we should prepare ourselves for the possibility of something equal and opposite happening to the 360.

I don't see that Microsoft will push this much, as the controller is a 3rd party controller following the 360 wireless standard. I could see future GH3 controllers not working with Rock Band, but only if Microsoft allowed for the hardware change.

As is stated before, this seems awefully petty. Honestly, if this rumor becomes true I can tell you with almost certainty that my copy of GH3 along with controller will be up at a GameStope near me with a "USED" sticker on it. I loaded up GH3 to check out the free content that they released, the Halo song and the DLC for the 3 battles that were they released, and that's about it since RB came out. I keep it around because it doesn't really do much for me to trade it in by itself, and the guitar works in RB.

If the Les Paul no longer works in RB, I'd trade it in and buy another strat for Rock Band.

[DesiredFX]

I'd like to politely redirect you two guys to post #70, in which I explain my perspective and where it came from.

I could repeat myself, but I find I'm too long-winded already.

[Briz9]

Harmonix needs to hurry and release a bass guitar controller before Activision pisses on all of their fans.

[Bluvox]

No argument on the persepective DFX, although from what I've heard in other forums/topics.. Microsoft is awefully strict on what they will allow to post up through live, and do a fair amount of testing. Not saying they couldn't somehow find a way to flash an update to the Les Paul controller, since I'm sure it has code in it somewhere.. but it would seem that a legal battle is much more likely. It seems to be how Red Octane likes to operate.

Personally I think that Activision is taking the 100% wrong approach with this.

Briz9 - http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=802676 Wireless, due out 2/9. Even if that patch removes my ability to play Rock Band with 2 guitars before that, I'll just pre-order one of those bad-boys and be set in February.

I wonder if when the used market gets flooded to some degree with copies of GH3 if Activision might realize that they are taking the wrong stance. The problem with used is that the publisher receives nothing from them.. so if hundreds of copies of GH3 all the sudden show up in GameStops everywhere.. the number of new copies sold will decrease pretty rapidly.

[DesiredFX]

I wonder if when the used market gets flooded to some degree with copies of GH3 if Activision might realize that they are taking the wrong stance. The problem with used is that the publisher receives nothing from them.. so if hundreds of copies of GH3 all the sudden show up in GameStops everywhere.. the number of new copies sold will decrease pretty rapidly.

I wondered this myself, but got snapped back into a real-world perspective when I realized we're talking about the used market being flooded with PS3 versions of the game.

I don't think the impact of that would be felt until GHIV is ready for offer: how much luck will they have selling the new one to consumers when it's visibly apparent how many GH3 owners didn't want to keep the last one...? At that point, I don't think it will matter that it's PS3 because all the customer will see is a whole bunch of Les Paul controllers.

[ManOwaR]

I know the list is slim, but really xbox and PS3 owners should unite on this.. Weather or not its affecting you, activisions practice is pathetic and abhorent.

[DesiredFX]

Microsoft isn't just a successfull gaming company.

It's the most powerful corporation on the planet. That's a fact, a solid engraved in stone fact.

Sony's not exactly chopped liver, either, having a huge share of not only the gaming market but also any aspect of the electronics market you can think of, primarily computing and home entertainment, as well as complete ownership of one of the largest movie studios on the planet.

So what makes it possible for Activision to throw its weight around (assuming that's what happened) with enormous multi-national conglomerate Sony but not with enormous multi-national conglomerate Microsoft?

[batsu336]

I just thought I'd share with all of you that we started talking about this over at another big music gaming forum [bemanistyle.com] and one of the regulars are talking about reports/rumors of a patch that will prohibit use of 360 GH controllers.

again, this is a rumor so take it with a grain of salt. just know that if it happens, you were warned.

Considering that not everyone has XBox Live and that you can decline updates, this would be absolutely useless unless the Microsoft police came to each house and personally replaced everyone's game disk. People would decline or delete the update. Sounds like someone just wanted to stir up a bunch of crap.

Common sense, really...

[Phane7]

Who would buy a steering wheel that only worked with one driving game? Who would buy a driving game that only worked with one steering wheel? It seems silly to me. If any other company decides to make a guitar sim (and I'm willing to bet there's more than one thinking about it) then the Les Paul controller will be worthless and the Strat will be king.

If someone managed to make a bluetooth guitar that worked with RB, I'd be all over that like icing on cake.

[ubikkibu]

A Harmonix-branded bass guitar controller is something I'd pay for, even if it's just different cosmetics on the same Stratocaster guts. Or even if it's not a specific bass guitar model, but just a different body style. But I'm not sure I'll buy the same guitar again when it's available separately. Not completely logical, I admit, but if Harmonix is listening, that's what would make the sale for me.

The bad press for Activision keeps piling up:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6183944.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=newstop&tag=newstop;title;8

[dfjdejulio]

A Harmonix-branded bass guitar controller is something I'd pay for, even if it's just different cosmetics on the same Stratocaster guts.

At this point, I'd trade in my XBox Les Paul for one, even though that means I'd no longer have any controllers that worked with GH2 or GH3 on the XBox.

Just sayin'.

[DesiredFX]

At this point, I'd trade in my XBox Les Paul for one, even though that means I'd no longer have any controllers that worked with GH2 or GH3 on the XBox.

Just sayin'.

But...that would mean...

...NO POSSUM KINGDOM!

Don't do it, man!

[JackBNimble]

Just my 2 cents.

Considering that Activision have from the biggining put a copy write or what ever you want to call it on the game for the PS3 and the 360.Stating that it is forbidden to use the GH3 periphs with any other game besides GH3 or forbidding you to use any other periphs with GH3.
Seeing how petty Activision is with blocking the patch with the PS3, I would not put it past them to legally force HMX to patch RB so the LP would no longer be compatable.

This is just my opinion, I am not going to speculate anything.But nothing would surprise me.And if they were to force HMX to do this it wouldn't cost Activision a dime.

BTW...I am a PS3 owner and I thank all you 360 guys for your support with this PS3 patch B.S...And you have my full support if Activision makes the LP non compatable for RB on the 360.

[dfjdejulio]

But...that would mean...

...NO POSSUM KINGDOM!

Don't do it, man!

No Possum Kingdom for me anyway right now.

My GH games are in storage until this is resolved, so that when they monitor which games are being played via XBox Live, I will not show up as a supporter of the Guitar Hero franchise.

I am not going to sell them, because the person who buys them might end up buying DLC for them, and that would generate revenue for Activision. They're in cold storage until this is dealt with.

Only reason my Les Paul isn't in cold storage is because I did not buy the bundle, so I'd be limited to vocals in Rock Band. And, boy howdy, I suck at singing. So, I use my Les Paul to play Rock Band and Boom Boom Rocket, not Guitar Hero.

[DesiredFX]

My GH games are in storage until this is resolved, so that when they monitor which games are being played via XBox Live, I will not show up as a supporter of the Guitar Hero franchise.

You're being way more supportive than most of us PS3 fans deserve! Thanks for being such a stand-up individual!

[logicalnoise]

Just my 2 cents.

Considering that Activision have from the biggining put a copy write or what ever you want to call it on the game for the PS3 and the 360.Stating that it is forbidden to use the GH3 periphs with any other game besides GH3 or forbidding you to use any other periphs with GH3.
Seeing how petty Activision is with blocking the patch with the PS3, I would not put it past them to legally force HMX to patch RB so the LP would no longer be compatable.

This is just my opinion, I am not going to speculate anything.But nothing would surprise me.And if they were to force HMX to do this it wouldn't cost Activision a dime.

BTW...I am a PS3 owner and I thank all you 360 guys for your support with this PS3 patch B.S...And you have my full support if Activision makes the LP non compatable for RB on the 360.

That statement at the begining is the EULA(End User Licinse Agreement). It's not legally binding in anyway and has nothing to do with patching a game. Legally There's little activision has to stand on which is why they are pressuring sony not filing a lawsuit in teh courts.

[CJ452]

Here's the rumor: Somebody, be it Activision or Harmonix forced by lawyers, is going to put out a patch on the 360 to STOP the Les Paul or Explorer from working with Rock Band.

I think you might want to address this rumor and refute it as quickly as possible. (And sticky it.)

If this turns out to be true...... well...... I'm done with music games.

So please, help a rocker out!

If it's true welcome to the club Xboxer's oh and watch out for those Activision execs jumping as thier stock is plummetting