I have to side with Activision

[Fortheloveofgod]

It's Harmonix's fault for releasing a standalone PS3 version of RB knowing they'd have to rely on GH guitar for people to play it.

That isn't Activision's fault.

It's Harmonix's fault for releasing a bundle intended for 4 people with only 3 peripherals. Again, they need to rely on GH.

That isn't Activisions fault either.

It also isn't Activision's fault that the RB guitars are so shoddy that people are using their GH guitars when they're waiting for a replacement.

Also, Activision aren't the ones who are selling the standalone product with no individual peripherals until January 31st.

That is Harmonix's fault.

I love RB, but this hate that Activision is getting is stupid, they're competitors so of course they won't play nice.
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Gamertag: Mypooisgreen
PSN: STFU_Donny

[Psychopriest]

Both games attract the same audience, they should help each other out no matter the history. Activision would only have gained sales from this but they just couldn't let their old feud die.

[Ventura]

It's Harmonix's fault for releasing a bundle intended for 4 people with only 3 peripherals. Again, they need to rely on GH.

You seen a lot of Guitar Hero bundles with 2 guitar controllers in them then, I take it?

Like I said in your thread on the Guitar Hero forums, while this aint Activision's fault, how does it make them look?

That head guy from Red Octane said it best, funnily enuff. Long term, you can't go against what the consumer wants.

[SSPWOLF]

None of this is an issue at all on the Xbox 360.

It is COMMONLY spoken in the gaming industry that the PS3 is difficult to code for and it is also COMMONLY spoken that Sony doesn't offer the same reverse-support to programmers that Microsoft does.

So if the "faults" you've listed don't effect the 360 version...

Logic says that the problem lies with the sony corporation.

[SSPWOLF]

You seen a lot of Guitar Hero bundles with 2 guitar controllers in them then, I take it?

Like I said in your thread on the Guitar Hero forums, while this aint Activision's fault, how does it make them look?

That head guy from Red Octane said it best, funnily enuff. Long term, you can't go against what the consumer wants.

What an excellent point!

On the back of my copy of Halo 3 it says that I can play two players split screen. But they didn't give me two controllers. Hell, they didn't give me any! Where's the threads demanding Bungie ship them controllers? Where's the theads on Bungie's website demanding that all Halo 2 DLC be made free for Halo 3? Etc. Etc. Etc.

People will fixate on anything to complain about.

[Ventura]

So if the "faults" you've listed don't effect the 360 version...

Logic says that the problem lies with the sony corporation.

That's more lucky than anything else, because of Microsoft's stance on developing peripherals for the 360.

This situation isn't helping Sony, granted, but what will you do if Activision force a Rock Band patch to remove the compatibility from the 360 version?

I have a hunch, you'll quickly change your tune. No pun intended.

[SSPWOLF]

That's more lucky than anything else, because of Microsoft's stance on developing peripherals for the 360.

This situation isn't helping Sony, granted, but what will you do if Activision force a Rock Band patch to remove the compatibility from the 360 version?

I have a hunch, you'll quickly change your tune. No pun intended.

No I won't.

I'll use the supplied controller and continue playing.

Activison can't force me stop playing drums or singing.

They can't force me not to use the guitar controller that came with the game.

Let's be realistic though....

Microsoft beat AMERICA in a lawsuit because they didn't want to change the way they did business.

Do you really think Microsoft is going to allow a company to change any of thier policies.. especially one on peripherals? Consider that microsoft has one of the strictest policies on peripherals in console history?

But hey, whatever your doomsday theory is... at least you got Blu Ray.

[Chris_Gonzalez]

None of this is an issue at all on the Xbox 360.

It is COMMONLY spoken in the gaming industry that the PS3 is difficult to code for and it is also COMMONLY spoken that Sony doesn't offer the same reverse-support to programmers that Microsoft does.

So if the "faults" you've listed don't effect the 360 version...

Logic says that the problem lies with the sony corporation.

Programing for a game and a peripheral are two completely different things, so your point is moot. Both of their games work fine. It's the controllers. The reason the LP works on the 360 is because Rock Band used the open controller standard there, which the LP and the X-plorer used. Problem with the PS3 is that there was no open controller standard, and Harmonix created it (even though GH3 came out first). If RO couldn't adhere to their open controller standard because it wasn't released, then it's no wonder the LP doesn't work. Harmonix and RO are trying to fix it, but Activision's the one being the douche and stopping the patch from releasing.

And why doesn't the Strat work on the 360 with GH3? Clearly it's Microsoft's fault (by your logic), even though Activision's had a long history of blocking out third party controllers from their games.

[SSPWOLF]

Your argument is circular.

1) The controller works on 360

2) It does not work on PS3

3) HMX developed both versions

Using Occum's Razor, the fault lies with sony.

Cerebus paribus, the fault lies with sony.

I'm not sure what your idea of a "logical" argument is.. but introducing factors that don't matter into the intial point makes it impossible to asess the value of your statements.

We aren't discussing the strat. We are discussing *why the L.P. didn't work in the first place on the Sony PS3*

The O.P. blames HMX "in the first place"

I submitted that unless he's proposing HMX purposely made a move to disenfranchise the owners of the PS3 that it's logically, for whatever reason, The fault of the sony architecture.

[Magnet]

It's not Activision's fault that Activision is blocking a compatibility patch for Rock Band.

Wait, what?

[SSPWOLF]

The OP stated that it was HMX's fault IN THE FIRST PLACE

I disagreed.

[SoulScreme]

I must agree. Harmonix led the community to believe that this would work without even talking to Activision. They broke typical corporate ettiquette and for that Activision is punishing them.

[logicalnoise]

I must agree. Harmonix led the community to believe that this would work without even talking to Activision. They broke typical corporate ettiquette and for that Activision is punishing them.

how does, does"We areworking on making Rock band compatible with as many controllers as possible" translate to them saying we nailed it and it will work at launch? IGN are the idiots who announced that the les paul worked fine on all consoles.

[sa_nick]

Harmonix intended for RB to be compatible with the LP, it wasn't, so they made a patch, quickly and easily and with no major development issues coz "the PS3 is difficult to code".

The problem itself is no ones fault, its just one of them things that was annoying, so they made a way to get around it.

You can't deny that its Activisions fault the patch isnt being released though.

[Bakkster]

I can see two reasons for Activision blocking the patch:
1) They want to play hardball.
2) They feel their IP has been violated by the patch.

My conclusion, in each case, is:
1) It's Sony's fault for allowing Activision to block the patch from happening. Would Sony let Activision block another game's patch, just because they said so?
2) It's Activision's fault for making it impossible for any other company to use their controller. Pretty anticompetitive for a company (RO) that got its start making 3rd party controllers.

[Ventura]

Do you really think Microsoft is going to allow a company to change any of thier policies.. especially one on peripherals? Consider that microsoft has one of the strictest policies on peripherals in console history?

But hey, whatever your doomsday theory is... at least you got Blu Ray.

If Activision are quite within their rights to deny compatibility on the PS3 version, they'd be quite within their rights to force a Rock Band patch to do the same to the 360 version, would they not?

Edit: Oh yeah, I have BluRay and HDDVD. I prefer HDDVD, funnily enough. I'm not picking sides here, just happen to have bought the PS3 version because it's games are region free and I didn't wanna have to wait until the new year to rock out with a local Australian version.

[ScissorKick]

I Don't Know What We're Yelling About!

[Maherj]

how does, does"We areworking on making Rock band compatible with as many controllers as possible" translate to them saying we nailed it and it will work at launch? IGN are the idiots who announced that the les paul worked fine on all consoles.

Exactly. Thanks for nailing exactly what I wanted to say. Don't blame HMX, blame everyone that ASSUMED it was going to work, HMX said they WANTED it to work and as you can see, they've made every effort to.

[hicksboy]

It's Harmonix's fault for releasing a standalone PS3 version of RB knowing they'd have to rely on GH guitar for people to play it.

That isn't Activision's fault.

It's Harmonix's fault for releasing a bundle intended for 4 people with only 3 peripherals. Again, they need to rely on GH.

That isn't Activisions fault either.

It also isn't Activision's fault that the RB guitars are so shoddy that people are using their GH guitars when they're waiting for a replacement.

Also, Activision aren't the ones who are selling the standalone product with no individual peripherals until January 31st.

That is Harmonix's fault.

I love RB, but this hate that Activision is getting is stupid, they're competitors so of course they won't play nice.
---
Gamertag: Mypooisgreen
PSN: STFU_Donny

Trolling much?

[SSPWOLF]

If Activision are quite within their rights to deny compatibility on the PS3 version, they'd be quite within their rights to force a Rock Band patch to do the same to the 360 version, would they not?

How do you "force a patch" ?

It's an over the network download. You can't force people to download anything as Microsofts End User agreement specifically states that the product is sold as is... therefore they are not legally entitled to update it for you and YOU are not legally entitled to make any changes to the system.

Rock band is sold as is.

the only End User agreement being broken is YOUR agreement with Activision not to use thier controller for any game not specifically manufactured for it.

Activision can use it's "muscle" to force Sony into blocking the patch.

There's no conceivable scenario that Activision could even "politely ask" Microsoft to screw around with it's iron-clad peripheral policy. Microsoft won't bend that peripheral policy for the likes of anyone... Activision already had to pay out the nose to get thier wireless usage for GH3 on the 360.

If Activision wants to stop people from using the Les Paul for other games they have 2ways to do it:

1) Stop it before it happens (blocking the patch on PS3)
2) Stop it after it happens by causing a "cease" in usage

In the area of #2 microsoft isn't involved. It's like saying that "bob" ate an Xbox 360 disc and killed himself. His parents aren't going to successfully sue Microsoft.

Activision CAN sue someone though... they can sue each and every one of us 360 users for deliberately breaking our contract (which is written in every copy of GH3 bundle) by using thier controller in a way that is expressly forbidden.

I for one hope they do sue us. The class action counter suit will be marvelous.

[Maggot_Brain]

I hope EA's lawyers are working on this?

[DoctorWho]

[QUOTE=

Also, Activision aren't the ones who are selling the standalone product with no individual peripherals until January 31st.

---
Gamertag: Mypooisgreen
PSN: STFU_Donny[/QUOTE]

They aren't? I'm pretty sure I had to go out and buy 2 BUNDLES of GH3 to get an extra peripheral. GH3 guitars don't come out until Feb either.

[SSPWOLF]

I hope EA's lawyers are working on this?

Can't see why they would. It doesn't legally effect them.

1) They provided a working guitar.

2) They don't have any rights to the Les Paul

3) they provided the patch because they "believe in a open peripheral environment" (I paraphrase, but you can read the actual quote in the announcements)

4) Activision pressured Sony to block the patch and they did.

What is EA going to sue for? Activision is being mean to our customers by not giving our customers what they want?

[Ventura]

How do you "force a patch" ?

You really ought to check the "PS3 block making its way to the 360" thread, you know. It's a rumour, yeah, but all this Activision crap started as a rumour, and it turned out to be true.

Activision apparently are quite within their rights to have the 360 Rock Band patched so that their GH3 controller can't be used with it.

This sets a precedent, really. If they really can deny compatibility on the PS3, then legally they can have the 360 version set up the same way. This isn't something that could go both ways. You either can use the GH controller with a different game, or you can't. And if you can't, it would seem they can force the inability to do so.

I've got no problem with them trying to sue me for using the GH3 controller with a different game, and I bet most others don't either. I'm just going on the facts, and they're not painting a pretty picture.

[whofan]

I must agree. Harmonix led the community to believe that this would work without even talking to Activision. They broke typical corporate ettiquette and for that Activision is punishing them.

Once again, your personal crusade against Harmonix is littered with misinformation.

Harmonix never once said anything about the LP working and thus can not be held accountable that it doesn't.

What has happened here is that the idiots at IGN announced that the LP would work (without testing it on the PS3 it seems) and people jumped all over that. The PRESS is to blame here, not Harmonix, lead your crusade against them for spreading disinformation.

All Harmonix said on the issue is the whole "open-standards" response, which neither confirmed nor denied things. People here just took that to mean "of course it is". That's how this whole thing started. Obviously they've been working on the issue for a little while now and have sorted it out now.

Let's move on to Activitision's role here. If they are holding up the patch and essentially punishing their own supporters then that makes them the very image of the greedy, power-hungry corporation that only cares about profits and nothing else. HOWEVER, this corporate short-sightedness will only hurt them in the end when people learn about their actions and decide that support is no longer appropriate for a company that would do that to their customers.

This should not be a matter of competition, but co-operation to build the best games possible. It seems that Harmonix is more than prepared to work in co-operation with whomever comes their way. Activision has made it perfectly clear that all they want is a monopoly with no competition. Not a good way to run a businesss, would you not agree?

Regardless, the point is that Harmonix is trying to do something about this but are being blocked by somebody (either Sony or Activision). I don't believe that Harmonix can be entirely blamed in all of this