Problem is with Activision and Harmonix, not Sony

[SoulScreme]

I have seen a lot of people bashing Sony over the Les Paul issues. The bottom line is that there open system ideology does more good than it does harm. With an open system, there is nothing preventing the compatibility, it's just not automatic. Still, both companies could have worked together to get the controllers working. The open platform brings with it things that could not be done on the 360, like the ability to use mods in Unreal Tournament 3. With the 360 if you want to develop a new type of peripheral, you need to deal with Microsoft. With PS3 you just have to make it work. This is also likely why Time Crisis 4 is a PS3 exclusive, they were able to make the GunCon how they wanted to make it.

The truth is that the fault lies with both Activision and Harmonix. Activision should realized that this would increase sales, but they have no obligation to allow this. Harmonix should have talked to Activision before leading the community to believe it would exist. Had they actually attempted to work together, this would be a non-issue. However, that's not the case. Harmonix attempted to do this without saying a word to Activision it seems. If that's the case, Activision is likely offended and thus using their might to block it.

So, be angry at Activision and Harmonix. But leave Sony out of it, they gave these companies every tool they needed for the guitars and games to function together. The companies are the ones responsible for it not happening.

[logicalnoise]

I have seen a lot of people bashing Sony over the Les Paul issues. The bottom line is that there open system ideology does more good than it does harm. With an open system, there is nothing preventing the compatibility, it's just not automatic. Still, both companies could have worked together to get the controllers working. The open platform brings with it things that could not be done on the 360, like the ability to use mods in Unreal Tournament 3. With the 360 if you want to develop a new type of peripheral, you need to deal with Microsoft. With PS3 you just have to make it work. This is also likely why Time Crisis 4 is a PS3 exclusive, they were able to make the GunCon how they wanted to make it.

The truth is that the fault lies with both Activision and Harmonix. Activision should realized that this would increase sales, but they have no obligation to allow this. Harmonix should have talked to Activision before leading the community to believe it would exist. Had they actually attempted to work together, this would be a non-issue. However, that's not the case. Harmonix attempted to do this without saying a word to Activision it seems. If that's the case, Activision is likely offended and thus using their might to block it.

So, be angry at Activision and Harmonix. But leave Sony out of it, they gave these companies every tool they needed for the guitars and games to function together. The companies are the ones responsible for it not happening.

that's all fine and good except Activision obviously didn't want to even talk to HMX hence why they made the patch with their own code. Everyone keeps acting like Activision has some right to do this. They don't the only reason they are able to hold up the patch is because COD4 is probably one of the best selling games on PS3 right now.

[SSPWOLF]

Sony must be proud to have you extolling it's virtues.

My question is, are you stating that Harmonix just plain dislikes people who own PS3s and that rudely chose to exclude you from using the Les Paul controller?

OR

Are you saying that Harmonix employees are just stupid and lazy and didn't have the knowledge/time to make it work?

I'm going to stick with my initial assumption that the game was designed to allow input from any "normal functioning guitar controller" and that the Sony architecture is convoluted and requires a specific package be built for every single tiny thing... which is why companies constantly state "it's difficult to code for PS3"

HMX never lied. All NORMAL functioning guitar controllers work. It just so happens that there's no controller standard for PS3 so there's no such thing as a "normal functioning controller" unless it's the controller that comes with your PS3 or it's the one that comes in the box with the game you buy.

[Ventura]

Sony must be proud to have you extolling it's virtues.

I think what he's trying to say is that Sony's open controller standard isn't in itself a bad thing. All it really means is that the companies have to choose to work together, rather than being forced to in the 360's case.

For whatever reason, Activision doesn't want to play ball, and on the PS3, they don't have to. Yes, having this problem doesn't make Sony's system look all that good, but at the root of the cause, it's not *really* their fault.

[SSPWOLF]

I think what he's trying to say is that Sony's open controller standard isn't in itself a bad thing. All it really means is that the companies have to choose to work together, rather than being forced to in the 360's case.

For whatever reason, Activision doesn't want to play ball, and on the PS3, they don't have to. Yes, having this problem doesn't make Sony's system look all that good, but at the root of the cause, it's not *really* their fault.

I completely agree that an open standard is not in itself a bad thing. I submit that it can actually be a VERY good thing.

HOWEVER

1) HMX made it work for 360. So do they hate PS3 users?
2) HMX Made a patch after the fact, which would imply that it took a lot of extra work that they couldn't finish BEFORE releasing the game.

So it is SONYs difficult system that made it incompatible to begin with and then it became Activision's asinine views on compatibility that made it a permanent problem.


I'm not bashing Sony.

I'm just saying it's definitely not HMX's fault, and Activision wasn't involved in the beginning.


You can say it's HMX's fault... but as a business, they would have WANTED to release the game with the compatibility. So if they could not do that, it was a HARDWARE issue.

which, makes it Sony's fault... as it works fine on the 360.

[Bakkster]

Still, both companies could have worked together to get the controllers working.

Yes, that would have been nice. HMX stated they wanted all 3rd party peripherals to work and that they'd give support to make it so. The only think I heard from RO/Activision was "You are only authorized to use RO controllers with GH3".

Tell me whose fault that is...

[Maggot_Brain]

Sony screws up again. Instead of a hardware standard and controller interoperability, they let game manufacturers do what they want. Then they hold a patch for a company's OWN game. What a bunch of spineless wimps.

[Deeznutzs27]

1. Ventura gave you the answer "rather than being forced to in the 360's case." Well them "forcing" developers to give up their control of the hardware allows MS to do what they want with it. I.e. identifying guitar controllers with a default driver that allows them to work universally unless there is a specific code written into the game to deny it.


If Sony has any fault, and it is a stretch, not "forcing" the devs to make Bluetooth guitars. That way they would be universally plug and play like the 360.

[ShadowOfEden]

I'm going to stick with my initial assumption that the game was designed to allow input from any "normal functioning guitar controller" and that the Sony architecture is convoluted and requires a specific package be built for every single tiny thing... which is why companies constantly state "it's difficult to code for PS3"



No, companies state that it is "difficult" because the architecture of the Cell is different from what they know. I'm a programmer, and have coded with Java and C++ a lot. When I did some VB, it WAS difficult because I had to use a totally different logic than what I have been using for years. So difficult isn't really the best word : Different is. Getting used to different things is more difficult to some people.

Over 95% of the PS3 games do not use the Sixaxis. For those 95%, Sony already has provided dev kits. For controls, it only gets harder for those deciding to make their own controller for their game.

Open and closed both have their pros and cons.

Open allows devs to support any peripherals if they want to, like mouse and keyboard support for UT3. You don't need any Sony keyboard, just go to best buy, get a keyboard and it will most certainly work. It also allows user created content, for games like LBP or UT3. For UT3, any mods created by users, like maps, weapons, vehicules or totally new game can be used on PS3. It also opens the way of two different consoles Vs. Granted, the only possibilities are mainly PC vs PS3, but it COULD be possible to have a Rock Band with a PS3, PC and Wii user (if it would be on the Wii). Devs also own their own servers, so they have more possibilities about them.

Closed provides are more solid compatibility, but will also force devs to work as MS want to develop their hardware. Closed also provides more solid network for devs who do not want to have their own servers.

[SSPWOLF]

Different, difficult...

Virtue, fault....

You make wonderful points, but it remains that for the time being (which comprises a couple years now) 360 owners have had it better all the way around. Unless you are a die hard Blu Ray fan.

[Ventura]

Sony screws up again. Instead of a hardware standard and controller interoperability, they let game manufacturers do what they want. Then they hold a patch for a company's OWN game. What a bunch of spineless wimps.

Do you have any idea the sort of trouble they'd be in if they released the patch anyway, despite not being legally allowed to?

I don't get the Sony bashing, seriously. Harmonix want all controllers working on all games. Activision don't.

This actually has next to nothing to do with Sony atall.

[SSPWOLF]

Do you have any idea the sort of trouble they'd be in if they released the patch anyway, despite not being legally allowed to?

I don't get the Sony bashing, seriously. Harmonix want all controllers working on all games. Activision don't.

This actually has next to nothing to do with Sony atall.

According to the latest Activision press release they aren't blocking the patch because they don't have the authority to do so.

Take that however you want to..

But I'll bet my Xbox360 and my rock band bundle that activision won't be able to pull any of this "throwing my weight around because I own world of warcraft now" Sh** with Microsoft.

[admanimal]

Activision should realized that this would increase sales, but they have no obligation to allow this.

The obnoxious thing is that Activision had to do zero work to create the patch for the LP to work on Rock Band and get the benefit of increased guitar sales. However, they decided to go through the trouble of preventing it from being released. The only logical reason they would do this is simply to make RB less appealing to people because it's obviously such a strong competitor to GH3. I guess that's Activision's right as a business, but they sure are being hypocritical, since they wouldn't be raking in the cash from GH3 (or GH2) in the first place if not for Harmonix.

[ShadowOfEden]

Different, difficult...

Virtue, fault....

You make wonderful points, but it remains that for the time being (which comprises a couple years now) 360 owners have had it better all the way around. Unless you are a die hard Blu Ray fan.

I don't care for movies at all, and I own a X360. My X360 is still working fine, but I wouldn't be surprised if it dies tomorow. I bought RockBand for the PS3 because the guitars were wireless. I also like the fact that I, or a friend, can download a song, go at the other's appartment, download it and then all other accounts on the console will be able to play it online or offline.

Only thing that sucks is that it's a 3 player game when I have a GHIII guitar doing nothing.

And my PS3 got more play time in the last few months than my X360.

I think X360 owners are misjudging the PS3, because it has much more pros than cons, just like PS3 owners think that every X360 died 3 times already.

[SoulScreme]

Where is this Activision press release? I checked and their latest press release is about their line-up of games for the holidays, not this.

[SoulScreme]

I don't care for movies at all, and I own a X360. My X360 is still working fine, but I wouldn't be surprised if it dies tomorow. I bought RockBand for the PS3 because the guitars were wireless. I also like the fact that I, or a friend, can download a song, go at the other's appartment, download it and then all other accounts on the console will be able to play it online or offline.

Only thing that sucks is that it's a 3 player game when I have a GHIII guitar doing nothing.

And my PS3 got more play time in the last few months than my X360.

I think X360 owners are misjudging the PS3, because it has much more pros than cons, just like PS3 owners think that every X360 died 3 times already.

Yeah. Though, while they haven't all died three times, I don't know a single person who has a 360 that hasn't had to send it back. I know 5-10 360 owners and they have all had some type of issues that required sending the unit back (not all RRoD).

[Bakkster]

Where is this Activision press release? I checked and their latest press release is about their line-up of games for the holidays, not this.

I didn't think they had one, yet. Their spin doctors are still hard at work trying to dodge bullets :D

[davidshek]

I don't care for movies at all, and I own a X360. My X360 is still working fine, but I wouldn't be surprised if it dies tomorow. I bought RockBand for the PS3 because the <del>guitars were</del> guitar is wireless.

There, fixed that for ya ;)


Yeah. Though, while they haven't all died three times, I don't know a single person who has a 360 that hasn't had to send it back.

You do now. Mine has been flawless since day one.

[SuburbanHell]

I'll agree this isn't Sony's fault, and infact I am actually supportive of their methods of release in this situation.

BUUUUUUUT...

I also don't blame HMX on this at all, they've SHOWN that they have tried to make this work for us.

All the blame rests on Activision -- from a business sense, if they/Red Octane ever want to sell guitars again, they'd want to see this patch come through.

Now I'm sure none of us will really ever know all the details (HMX folks aside) of what went down when Red Octane and HMX went their separate ways and got purchased by Activision and EA/MTV respectively... However, I would hope that any "bad blood" that may have been shed as a result of the split is not a factor in why Activision would block this patch. At this point I can only see something childish like that at least a partial cause of the block, and it's sad to see a company I've been a long time gamer of stoop to this kind of action. Nothing against EA, but this is like something Trip "The Destroyer of Worlds" Hawkins would've pulled in the 90s...

[gamingeek]

All of this Sony bashing is stupid, clearly HMX/EA did not get Activision's permission before they made the patch. In all actuality they should have cleared this matter before the game even shipped. Instead they alluded to the fact that their game would work with the other guitar controllers and still sold standalone copies of the game w/o any support. Activision are being *****s about this that's for sure but it's sure as hell not Sony's fault that they don't want to be sued.

[Coupe]

Mine has been flawless since day one, never had a problem with my 360, and mine is a UK launch machine.

The only reason I've bought Rock Band for the PS3 is that I'm in the UK so the 360 version won't play on my machine. I'm too lazy to wait for the UK release of the 360 version so my PS3 version is on its way from the US now. Although, once it gets closer to the official UK launch, I'll probably sell the PS3 version a couple of weeks before the UK launch and then buy the 360 version.

[espher]

Unless there's something we're all missing with the coding required for this patch, there's no legal reason for this patch release to be blocked -- aside from Activision complaining and Sony, who controls the actual distribution of the patch, not wanting to piss them off.

So I wouldn't say that Sony is exactly a sparkling beacon of pure good here. I'm pretty sure there are ulterior motives for them as well. I'm not saying they're fully at fault, but if you want to plant some blame on Activision and Harmonix, you can't ignore Sony's refusal to push this out (unless there was a cease and desist or something, but I'm sure we'd have heard about that).

Of course that would mean having to acknowledge that Harmonix is not almost entirely to blame for something, and I know some of you people would have a fit if that were the case. :)

[SoulScreme]

Unless there's something we're all missing with the coding required for this patch, there's no legal reason for this patch release to be blocked -- aside from Activision complaining and Sony, who controls the actual distribution of the patch, not wanting to piss them off.

So I wouldn't say that Sony is exactly a sparkling beacon of pure good here. I'm pretty sure there are ulterior motives for them as well. I'm not saying they're fully at fault, but if you want to plant some blame on Activision and Harmonix, you can't ignore Sony's refusal to push this out (unless there was a cease and desist or something, but I'm sure we'd have heard about that).

Of course that would mean having to acknowledge that Harmonix is not almost entirely to blame for something, and I know some of you people would have a fit if that were the case. :)

I agree. However, can you blame Sony? Pissing Activision off could mean losing franchises like Call of Duty, Tony Hawk, and Guitar Hero. While it would be nice if they could stand up to Activision, Sony doesn't have the market foothold with the PS3 to do that right now.

[Bakkster]

I agree. However, can you blame Sony? Pissing Activision off could mean losing franchises like Call of Duty, Tony Hawk, and Guitar Hero. While it would be nice if they could stand up to Activision, Sony doesn't have the market foothold with the PS3 to do that right now.

But then we go right back to this: why didn't Sony force compatibility like MS did on the 360?

Basically what I see it boiling down to is HMX trying to fix a compatibility issue so everyone can play on the PS3, and Activision and Sony, through some mechanism that neither has explained yet, has caused the patch to not be released and preventing people from playing Rock Band.

There's plenty of blame to go around, I just have so much difficulty believing anything HMX did puts them in the wrong.

[ShadowOfEden]

Unless there's something we're all missing with the coding required for this patch, there's no legal reason for this patch release to be blocked -- aside from Activision complaining and Sony, who controls the actual distribution of the patch, not wanting to piss them off.

So I wouldn't say that Sony is exactly a sparkling beacon of pure good here. I'm pretty sure there are ulterior motives for them as well. I'm not saying they're fully at fault, but if you want to plant some blame on Activision and Harmonix, you can't ignore Sony's refusal to push this out (unless there was a cease and desist or something, but I'm sure we'd have heard about that).

Of course that would mean having to acknowledge that Harmonix is not almost entirely to blame for something, and I know some of you people would have a fit if that were the case. :)


Sony would get sued if they would do it, and they would most certainly lose. Activision are the one concerned by the patch, and it they refused to allow their Guitar to work with other games, Sony can't do anything about it.

It's up to us, customers, to express our opinion to Activision. Pression can make them change their mind.

[SoulScreme]

But then we go right back to this: why didn't Sony force compatibility like MS did on the 360?

Basically what I see it boiling down to is HMX trying to fix a compatibility issue so everyone can play on the PS3, and Activision and Sony, through some mechanism that neither has explained yet, has caused the patch to not be released and preventing people from playing Rock Band.

There's plenty of blame to go around, I just have so much difficulty believing anything HMX did puts them in the wrong.

Well, HMX are the ones that implied that this would work time and time again. HMX are the reason I bought GH3 expecting compatibility, not Activision. So, for me, that's why they bear some blame.

[Bakkster]

Well, HMX are the ones that implied that this would work time and time again. HMX are the reason I bought GH3 expecting compatibility, not Activision. So, for me, that's why they bear some blame.

They said most guitar controllers, not all. They tried to add the capability, they got blocked by Activision.

HMX can't fix the problem if they aren't allowed. It just boggles my mind that Activision's 3rd-party policy of "No" is somehow HMX's fault. Activision is the reason the Les Paul does not work.

If you think the guitar should be compatible, blame Activision.
If you thought the guitar was compatible, blame the media or blame yourself. Unless of course you can find me an announcement by HMX that the PS3 Les Paul would (none of your should rhetoric) work in RB...

[DesiredFX]

The truth is, guitar controllers as they currently stand are the result of a de facto standard created by the GH franchise.

If Harmonix had wanted to, they could have made wholesale changes to the standard--the user interface standard, not the software standard--to fit a game that is, at its core, a different animal from Guitar Hero.

For example, let's say HMX decided they wanted the controller to feel and play more like a real guitar. Instead of sticking with five fret buttons/strum bar/whammy, they elect to go with four fret buttons and two strum bars. The game interface would have to be changed to not only indicate which buttons you press, but which strum bar to use.

They could have done this. It might even have made some people happy because a controller of that sort could be made to feel a lot more like playing a guitar. (Think how cool it would be to strum across two bars to make a "real" chord, or to climb the neck on one strum bar, then have to switch to the other as the notes keep rising.)

If they had chosen to do this, no one would have expected compatibility between the two games because the differences in the controller are too great.

But since there are only minor functional differences between the two where user interface is concerned (extra fret buttons, effects switch), there was a general assumption--and not really a bad one--that the two controllers should be able to play nice together.

As this has played out, I've tended to believe Harmonix' side of things, simply because everything coming from Activision points to "we have a closed, proprietary system, we like it that way, and we intend to enforce it." I get this from the GHIII EULA, the one-way compatibility on the 360, and from their reactions to this whole patch situation--even before the news came out that they were standing in its way.

I agree that Sony could have smoothed things over by creating and enforcing a software interface standard, but the problem with standards--as seen in my controller example above--is that along with ensuring compatibility, they also limit developers where innovation is concerned.

This all could blow over if Activision didn't insist on playing Big Bully on the Playground. That's evident simply by the fact that, without Activision's resistance, Sony could have the patch online for all Rock Band users before I finish typing this.

[gamingeek]

Go ahead and continue to blame Sony if you must. That doesn't make it true though. The truth is that HMX/EA have rushed this product to market and did get the proper permisiions from Activision to use their proprietary controller. Their support for their product has been thus far abyssmal.

[DesiredFX]

Their support for their product has been thus far abyssmal.

In what way?

27 DLC tracks released in four weeks' time?

EA scrambling to get functional peripherals into everyone's hands and giving out free games when they felt they dropped the ball?

HMX creating a patch that allows the Les Paul controller to work with RB?

Which of those efforts fall under the label "abysmal?"

[gamingeek]

In what way?

27 DLC tracks released in four weeks' time?

EA scrambling to get functional peripherals into everyone's hands and giving out free games when they felt they dropped the ball?

HMX creating a patch that allows the Les Paul controller to work with RB?

Which of those efforts fall under the label "abysmal?"

Crappy barely usable hardware and people that are still waiting for replacements weeks after sending them in. Some people have gotten broken refurbished replacements. Ace job!

[espher]

Crappy barely usable hardware and people that are still waiting for replacements weeks after sending them in. Some people have gotten broken refurbished replacements. Ace job!

It could be worse. They could be Activision. :)


Hopefully we'll get some info to fill in some blanks down the road. I'd love to know if it's a legal issue or Sony just cowering in the corner from the Activision giant.

[Bakkster]

In what way?

27 DLC tracks released in four weeks' time?

EA scrambling to get functional peripherals into everyone's hands and giving out free games when they felt they dropped the ball?

HMX creating a patch that allows the Les Paul controller to work with RB?

Which of those efforts fall under the label "abysmal?"

Apparently, doing what you feel is right for customers is now a bad thing. I guess HMX should have bowed down Activision and let them screw all their customers out of the ability to use their controllers the way they wanted. :confused:

Shame on HMX for not getting "approval" from Red Octane? Why aren't people wondering why HMX needed "approval" in the first place? Why is it a good thing to lock guitar controllers behind proprietary standards to force you to buy 4 guitars to fully enjoy 2 different 2-guitar games?

I'd rather be a fanboy for HMX trying to work for the good of the customer, rather than be a fanboy for Activision and let them dictate how I can and can't use my controllers.

[DesiredFX]

Crappy barely usable hardware and people that are still waiting for replacements weeks after sending them in. Some people have gotten broken refurbished replacements. Ace job!

Yes, and I'm one that had to wait two weeks for a replacement and then send the replacement back. EA did this without question or objection.

You measure support as much by effort as by results, and frankly, the results--while far from ideal--aren't as bad as you're trying to make out, and the exceptional effort is unprecedented in my experience.

[AndyN UK]

Lets be honest here, why would anyone expect Activision to take this course of action over something that a gamer has already purchased from them. They can hardly scream about lost revenue when, in order for the patch to work, we've already purchased GH3.

Personally I think harmonix only made the mistake in announcing this patch so openly, whilst it deserves merit for the intention of keeping the RB community informed they could've kept quiet and just released it to Sony with the emphasis being on something like bass solo career mode being enabled (hint hint).

I think you're possibly correct in saying that something else is the catalyst for Activision's course of action, currently the logic doesn't stick, this has very little impact on Activision, in fact the only bi-product i can see for them is that they will gain GH3 sales on a platform that could really do with a boost at the moment.

If what is being said is true, then Activision must feel that they've had their noses put out of joint in not being consulted, and then, out of spite, simply objected. Personally I cant argue with that, im sure its something that we've all done in the past.

[DesiredFX]

If what is being said is true, then Activision must feel that they've had their noses put out of joint in not being consulted, and then, out of spite, simply objected.

When the subject of the patch first came up, the word I heard on it was that Activision subsidiary Red Octane was cooperating with HMX on creating the patch.

Along with making Activision's efforts to prevent the patch from seeing the light of day that much more infuriating, it also explains response emails from Red Octane that amount to "no comment."

[Brine]

The truth is that the fault lies with both Activision and Harmonix. Activision should realized that this would increase sales, but they have no obligation to allow this. Harmonix should have talked to Activision before leading the community to believe it would exist. Had they actually attempted to work together, this would be a non-issue. However, that's not the case. Harmonix attempted to do this without saying a word to Activision it seems. If that's the case, Activision is likely offended and thus using their might to block it.


Actually Activision has nothing to Do with this issue; Their periferial is already out, and the Les paul controller is bunk. The mechanics inside the control are high quality, but the fact that it runs on batteries, and not Re-chargable via usb (like the other contollers)....

The problem lies with HMX/EA (conspiracy theory comin up). the Les Paul Functions as a REGULAR controller not a "guitar controller" the toggle is an up/down arrow, the Green is X, Red is Circle, Yellow Square or what ever they are labled on the neck...
Don't beleive me ? play any game with the guitar controller and it functions(maybe not practical for game play but the buttons work as they should)...

now use the REG ps3 controller or use a Pelican Adapter for the PS2 controller in Rock band; what happens when you press "X" on a REGULAR controller ? the Game automatically Assigns it to MIC(vocals) not guitar, not drums, not "choose your instrument"

Same thing on the DrumSet, hit the X button on the drum Set it picks up Drums not anything Else.

Now use the Les Paul Control on Rock band and hit X... what does it do ? it Assigns it to "MIC" why god why ? cause its a "REGULAR" controller, and HMX forced all REG controllers to "MIC" - this is either a huge oversight or done intentionally. Activision didn't make their controller EVILLY do this, its "ree-tard 'ed"(curse you werd filter) how anyone could come up with this concept.

now here's the conspiracy theory... EA is a cut-throat game company, a GIANT one of the biggest... however many of their games SUCK, Really hard. Because they function more like a coorperation with loads of buracracy and intercoorperate politics etc etc. a lot of their games are outsourced to 3rd party studios and eventually they try to steal the soul of the studio.... but 1st they just fund the studio and try to apply their pressure tatics to get them to do thngs "the EA way" which means as fast as possible, forget about QA and realse it already, and Score big on the profits.... one of the Ways to maximize on this profit is that PS3 Users are "premium Gamers" which means a lot of the people who own the console own money, and EA loves money. So EA says "you know what, HMX take out thatcontroller compatibility DO IT NOW!!" and HMX is like "jeez what the heck dude, ok ok what ever" but EA never said why, its so they can make more money off the PS3 USERS....also keep this in mind the PS3 its a lot more expensive to develope for.... pass the cost onto the consumer. Another Coorperate tatic.




HMX never lied. All NORMAL functioning guitar controllers work. It just so happens that there's no controller standard for PS3 so there's no such thing as a "normal functioning controller" unless it's the controller that comes with your PS3 or it's the one that comes in the box with the game you buy.


nope you're wrong... in the case Rock band you're right because the way the game is set up one would think that...The Les Paul is a "NORMAL CONTROLLER" its the rock band periferials that are "special controllers" because something in them Tells the Game which instrument to assign it to.... and its not in the Guitar its ACTUALLY in the USB adaptor...

don't beleive me ? turn off your guitar controllers... go into multiplayer with just a PS3 control, the only one lit up to join in is the MIC, now EXIT and quit the game... turn off the PS 3, and start the console up just using the les paul start rock band and start a multi player ok now notice its still the MIC that is set to join in.... NOW do this.... plug in the USB Adaptor for the Rock Band Guitar, whats this ? the guitar slot now says join... the Guitar isn't even turned on... its in the usb adaptor....

this only proves it was either done on purpose or a huge oversight.... i'm doubting the oversight issue...

EA wants to get its money...

-Brine

[Electric_Zen]

EA loves money. So EA says "you know what, HMX take out thatcontroller compatibility DO IT NOW!!" and HMX is like "jeez what the heck dude, ok ok what ever" but EA never said why, its so they can make more money off the PS3 USERS....also keep this in mind the PS3 its a lot more expensive to develope for.... pass the cost onto the consumer. Another Coorperate tatic.

Crystal meth is a terrible drug.

[davidshek]

Crystal meth is a terrible drug.

Seriously...did that post even ever go 5 words in a row without something horribly misspelled?

Spellcheck is your friend...paranoid schizophrenia is bad, mmkay?

[Bakkster]

The problem lies with HMX/EA (conspiracy theory comin up).

< imagine a Wall o' Text here >

Two problems with your conspiracy theory:

1) EA is just the distributor. EA does not own HMX or MTV Games. They have no stake in Rock Band beyond getting the units to stores and handling the return policy. They can't affect the design of the game, only what happens in the warehouses.

2) The official reason why your standard SixAxis controller can't be used is that HMX wants an authentic experience. Aka, you use a guitar controller to play guitar, and you use a drum controller to play drums. The reason the LP doesn't work is that it is seen as a SixAxis and all the patch did was properly detect the LP (which wasn't available for long enough before launch to put into the retail version). Both arguments fulfill all points of the story, but Occam's Razor says this explanation is more likely than the conspiracy theory.

[AndyN UK]

Seriously then...I'm missing something here.

If HX were patching the game so that controllers are being seen correctly (forget the LP just the normal SA ones i mean) then what right do Activision have to argue about this.

If what you say is true and RB detects controllers differently and they want to add a feature so that you can use a normal Six Axis then what's the issue (even activision cant argue this point as GH3 has an achievement for using a normal controller)

I'm not convinced tbh, if the LP was a normal controller why the USB dongle?

[logicalnoise]

Actually Activision has nothing to Do with this issue; Their periferial is already out, and the Les paul controller is bunk. The mechanics inside the control are high quality, but the fact that it runs on batteries, and not Re-chargable via usb (like the other contollers)....

-Brine

refering to everything no your wrong.
1. The 360 version of rockband still reckonizes the LP as guitar controller.
2. RB supportting the LP in 360 nullifies any EA conspiracy.
3.HMX has full control over RB not EA
4. HMX has never lied to us. Meaning their statemnt is 100&#37; true.
5. The ps3 version rekconizes the LP as a "refular" controller because thats what RO designed it to do. RB wasn't designed to specifically work with teh LP they tried to anticipate how it would be intergrated as a controller but considering the game only came out a month before rock band they had no time to properly test it. Hence the patch which is now being blocked by activision.

[gamingeek]

The point is it's their proprietary controller. They don't have to allow RB to use it. I am all for an open standard but that is simply not the reality. EA/HMX should have cleared this matter up BEFORE they ever shipped this item.

[socco6]

I completely agree that an open standard is not in itself a bad thing. I submit that it can actually be a VERY good thing.

HOWEVER

1) HMX made it work for 360. So do they hate PS3 users?
2) HMX Made a patch after the fact, which would imply that it took a lot of extra work that they couldn't finish BEFORE releasing the game.

So it is SONYs difficult system that made it incompatible to begin with and then it became Activision's asinine views on compatibility that made it a permanent problem.


I'm not bashing Sony.

I'm just saying it's definitely not HMX's fault, and Activision wasn't involved in the beginning.


You can say it's HMX's fault... but as a business, they would have WANTED to release the game with the compatibility. So if they could not do that, it was a HARDWARE issue.

which, makes it Sony's fault... as it works fine on the 360.
It works fine on the 360 because there was already a guitar controller made by activision on that platform so hmx had a decent idea of how to make it work. But there was no previous controller on the ps3, thus the need for a patch after they got their hands on the lp to make it compatible.

[ShadowOfEden]

Actually Activision has nothing to Do with this issue; Their periferial is already out, and the Les paul controller is bunk. The mechanics inside the control are high quality, but the fact that it runs on batteries, and not Re-chargable via usb (like the other contollers)....


I think you missed the whole point of this thread.

The guitars are different, YES. But HMX made a patch for their game to support the LP, but Activision refused to let it be released.

The incompatibility without the guitars was the issue of two weeks ago, get out of under your rock.

[logicalnoise]

The point is it's their proprietary controller. They don't have to allow RB to use it. I am all for an open standard but that is simply not the reality. EA/HMX should have cleared this matter up BEFORE they ever shipped this item.

it's not a matter of letting them. Again people assume activision has some legal right here. they don't they are just using pure leverage on sony's part against a compeitor. HMX used only their code to write the patch. WHen they can get a court order then they can talk but even then I'm still done giving them any of my money.

[AndyN UK]

refering to everything no your wrong.
1. The 360 version of rockband still reckonizes the LP as guitar controller.
2. RB supportting the LP in 360 nullifies any EA conspiracy.
.

Actually the 360 has different conatations, the controllers have to made to a licensed MS standard negating any situations like this arising (on the PS3 i mean)

[DesiredFX]

EA/HMX should have cleared this matter up BEFORE they ever shipped this item.

Why?

They are no more required to work with the LP controller than GHIII is required to work with the Strat.

Anything HMX does to support this--whether before launch or after--is in the name of giving the consumers the ability to choose among guitar controllers for the game, whether to simply add a bass controller or to use a controller they prefer.

HMX actually gains very little beyond consumer goodwill by releasing this patch.

Now, consumer goodwill is certainly a valuable commodity that can be turned into cold, hard cash somewhere down the road, but for the next two months, all the patch does is help consumers and encourage sales of a competitor's product.

[AndyN UK]

Well said, and there lies the massive irony of this whole situation :confused:

[Brine]

refering to everything no your wrong.
1. The 360 version of rockband still reckonizes the LP as guitar controller.
2. RB supportting the LP in 360 nullifies any EA conspiracy.
i knew this already; thats why in my conspiracy theory i cited that EA targeted PS3 users.
because of our "premium product" Oil Changes cost more on a porsche than on any other car.... don't belive me ask a porshe dealer the fastest way to void your factory warranty.



3.HMX has full control over RB not EA
4. HMX has never lied to us. Meaning their statemnt is 100% true.
Actually the Whole Project was funded By EA. So what EA says goes or they pull the funding. Think i'm Wrong ? Remeber a Game Called thrill kill for the PSX ? EA bought rights to the game just so they could scrap the title, the called it a "family values marketing decision" Harmonix is a SMALL video Game studio with a limited development budget which is why all of their games are under Various PUBLISHERS... SCEA,ACTIVISION,EA....etc.... Harmonix never lied in the past, but now that big brother EA funded their shizzle they gotta slice of the good life, they may not have liked the coorperate hand making them dance like puppets, but when you get that kinda money
you're like "hey hey, i'm Carrying the EA Banner!"




5. The ps3 version rekconizes the LP as a "refular" controller because thats what RO designed it to do. RB wasn't designed to specifically work with teh LP they tried to anticipate how it would be intergrated as a controller but considering the game only came out a month before rock band they had no time to properly test it. Hence the patch which is now being blocked by activision.

Valid point, and i agree with you... except on the last note, Activision has no way of blocking a patch update to the game. it wouldn't make any sense as other posters have stated, Activision wants people to buy GH3 even if it is so they can use the control on RB.... can you imagine all the holiday sales "wow mom & dad Rock band & Guitar Hero 3!? Rox!!" ... all i have to ask gamers is this question:

Would you Rather pay $60 for another Strat control or $99 for GH3 and a control thats compatible with Rock band ? many of us already have GH3, and those of us who don't
wouldn't mind spending another $39 to get another awesome harmonix game.

As Far as pulling the patch it maybe has nothing to do with HMX, EA, or otherwise...
maybe it has never undergone a full testing cycle and causes glitchs in other areas of the game ? My Conspiracy theory is just a THEORY, i was posting it for comedy value more so than seriousness, you's guys take this les paul controll issue too seriously.

As far as the meth goes, ya ya its a bad chemical but a cats gotta do what a cats gotta do.
if ya-kno-whut i'm sayin'

-Brine

[capitalfn9]

there have been like 10k topics about this in the past 2 days.

[Bakkster]

My Conspiracy theory is just a THEORY, i was posting it for comedy value more so than seriousness, you's guys take this les paul controll issue too seriously.

At least you admit that you're a troll. Not that it makes anything better, but you're at least honest.

[Hanover]

I also know a lot of PS3 owners who have had their games delayed and pushed back. So what's your point?

It's give and take all across the board.

IMHO, the PS3 was released way too soon by a guy who thought that all you needed was an extremely powerful machine in order to be successful. That guy got fired.

I have no problems with Sony or their products. However, open standard can be dangerous when there is no guarantee of quality. Crap like this can happen and the consumer ends up getting screwed in the end.

I don't think protecting the consumer by creating a controller standard is such a bad thing. Sure the, Hard Drive and the Modding...I'm all for that. But when it's something essential like controls and making sure companies don't screw the consumer by making one proprietary control after another, thats when standards are needed.

By the way, now that the Falcoln chip has been released, there are a lot less RRODs happening beyond the usual defects. Yes, the whole RROD sucked...but so did the initial guitars for Rock Band and everyone seems to be forgiving Harmonix.


Yeah. Though, while they haven't all died three times, I don't know a single person who has a 360 that hasn't had to send it back. I know 5-10 360 owners and they have all had some type of issues that required sending the unit back (not all RRoD).

[Shayde21]

Sony caved to unfounded pressure from Activision. Plain and simple. There's NO copyright laws broken, none of the hardware is proprietary.

You have to blame Sony for caving, and themselves screwing their PS3 owners.

[Hanover]

Actually, that patch would encourage users to break the EULA for Guitar Hero, I think.


Sony caved to unfounded pressure from Activision. Plain and simple. There's NO copyright laws broken, none of the hardware is proprietary.

You have to blame Sony for caving, and themselves screwing their PS3 owners.

[zerogeo3]

Actually, that patch would encourage users to break the EULA for Guitar Hero, I think.

How in the name of Zeus' Buthole are you violating their EULA. Are they gonna come to your house, and arrest you? That is the most ******ed thing I think I have ever heard...:eek:

[Hanover]

Here is what it says in tiny little letters on the bottom/back of the box:


Activision authorizes use of this guitar hero game only in combination with Guitar Hero guitars provided by Activision or Standard Game Pad controllers provided with the game console. Activision also authorizes use of the Guitar Hero controller only with a Guitar Hero game product or other Activision product. Any other use is expressly prohibited. No other license, express or implied, is granted.

So there you go. See, Activision can now say that we should have all read the fine print.

Still doesnt change the fact that Activision are a bunch of gestappo *****s that took Harmonix's great idea and put it behind a bunch of barbed wire. This is DEFININTELY not in the spirit of Rock n' Roll.




How in the name of Zeus' Buthole are you violating their EULA.
Are they gonna come to your house, and arrest you? That is the most ******ed thing I think I have ever heard...:eek:

[Frederf]

While that's a frightfully evil EULA on the box there, Harmonix never agreed to it, the customers did. The highest speed limit in the United States is 75 or 80 MPH which doesn't prevent Lamborghini from selling you a car that'll do 200 MPH without any legal problems.

Harmonix seems to have the physical ability to make the controller work with the game, who is telling Harmonix "No"? And why do they have the authority to tell Harmonix "No"?

I doubt Harmonix ever agreed to anything regarding Activision directly. Why is Harmonix compelled to give two flying craps about Activision's fascist wants? Let Activision bring 10,000 of their own customers to court over EULA violations. Just because you can violate an EULA with Harmonix's product doesn't mean Harmonix is in any way responsible.

Game developer A who made a Joystick would never threaten Game developer B because B wanted their game to work with A's stick in PC gaming, why does everyones' brains turn to sludge when it's a console game?

[Tarzanman]

A lot of people have jumped to the conclusion that Activision's statement is about money for RB to license the Red Octane Les Paul. Personally, I don't think so.

This was their statement:

To Music Gaming Fans: The recent announcement by MTV Games/Viacom's Harmonix division that Activision is blocking Sony from releasing a patch and their plea to enable Rock Band software to work with Guitar Hero hardware paints a very misleading picture.

In fact, Harmonix and its parent company MTV Games/Viacom recently declined Activision's offer to reach an agreement that would allow the use of Guitar Hero guitar controllers with Rock Band. We have been and remain open to discussions with Harmonix and MTV Games/Viacom about the use of our technology in Rock Band. Unfortunately for Rock Band users, in this case Harmonix and MTV Games/Viacom are unwilling to discuss an agreement with Activision.

Activision's top priority is to provide consumers with a seamless marriage of best-in-class hardware and software. We are focusing our efforts on innovating hardware and software that are designed to work together, work flawlessly and provide an enjoyable gaming experience.

Best regards,
Activision

I doubt that the sticking point was money... at least.... I doubt that Activision would want a lump payment or cash for licensing their guitar. Its too short-sighted.

What is more likely is that they wanted to expand the agreement and include all of RB's peripherals to be cross-compatible.

It makes perfect sense to me. Rock Band has effectively made GH3 obsolete, right? I am certain that Activision would jump at the chance to come out with their own multi-peripheral music game to compete with Rock Band.... but they probably can't easily do that because of patents and IP.... so *instead* they try to use the Les Paul issue to try to jockey for a better position for when GH4 comes out.

Basically, what I *believe* happened is:
1. Knowing that it will cause a ****storm, Harmonix releases Rock Band without Les Paul support.
2. In the weeks following the launch, Harmonix reverse-engineers Les Paul signals
3. Harmonix creates patch and submits to Sony
4. Activision lawyers up and has the patch halted
5. Activision *probably* tells HMX that cross compatibility is an all-or-nothing affair.... that the only way Activision will allow it is if they are allowed to patch GH3 (or GH4) to use Rock Band Peripherals with drum and vocal tracks to-be-added-at-a-future-date
5. Understandably, HMX balks because this would completely undercut their market position (as they have the superior product)

So there you have my theory. I think that cross compatibility isn't going to happen because it would mean having to cede the entire concept of Rock Band to a competitor with a currently inferior product.

HMX made the right call... and the way they have used the fans to pressure Activision was deliberate and premeditated. Didn't work, though :D

[Shockz0rz]

Nope.

http://community.rockband.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=15440

"As is the case with the Microsoft Xbox360, we believe that Sony PLAYSTATION 3 users should be able to use the peripheral of their choice with Rock Band. We sincerely hope that Activision will reverse its decision and allow release of the compatibility patch and further, that Activision will allow Guitar Hero III to support Rock Band guitar controllers as well. We welcome all third party developers who wish to support our controllers and will provide any required support in order for them to do so."

You'll note they didn't say "GUITAR controllers" in that last bit. It sounds to me like Harmonix is willing to back up anyone who wants to do a game using ANY of the peripherals.

[jonfitzsimon]

it is crazy that the Strat doesnt work with the Guitar Hero series. I am sure Actiblizzard would like to allow the strat to work on their game if their controllers work for RB. That makes sense.

[DesiredFX]

What is more likely is that they wanted to expand the agreement and include all of RB's peripherals to be cross-compatible.

I don't see it, especially in the wake of Harmonix repeatedly saying that everyone wins if all controllers are cross-compatible.

Activision has repeatedly shown in many ways that what they want in the guitar-based rhythm-game realm is exclusivity and proprietary peripherals. Even their own statement indicates that their primary focus (as laughable as it is) is to get their own hardware to work "flawlessly" with their own software.

And your sequence of events is mind-boggling, supposing that people at both companies have nothing better to do than play a protracted game of chicken over this, hoping the other player flinches first.

It's very simple: Harmonix believes that cross-compatibility for music games controllers is good for music games as a genre. This is virtually impossible to argue with. If someone said they thought cross-compatibility of steering wheels with all driving games was good for driving games as a genre, no one would bat an eye.

Activision (and, earlier in this franchise's life, RedOctane) have done several things to keep their controllers proprietary. This is only the latest.

I do agree that it's just as possible that this is about something other than cash, but it's pretty clear that Activision wants something in return for allowing this.

If Activision is really determined to play hardball, I think Sony should just release it and let Activision take action if they need to. The minute a judge strikes down their request for an injunction as an attempt to inhibit the doctrines of fair use, this all goes away.

[batsu336]

The problem with your theory is this:

If Harmonix has the superior product and GH is now obsolete, why would they need to jockey for anything from Activision?

Also, there is still the weird issue with 360 GH3 guitars working, but not PS3 GH3 guitars...why would Harmonix make it work on one platform but not the other, if they planned it all along? .....unless....they are in cahoots with Bill Gates, too, so he can buy out Activision...(MUHAHAHA *twirls his handlebar mustache*)

[Lazerus101]

The problem with your theory is this:

If Harmonix has the superior product and GH is now obsolete, why would they need to jockey for anything from Activision?

Also, there is still the weird issue with 360 GH3 guitars working, but not PS3 GH3 guitars...why would Harmonix make it work on one platform but not the other, if they planned it all along? .....unless....they are in cahoots with Bill Gates, too, so he can buy out Activision...(MUHAHAHA *twirls his handlebar mustache*)

Because to enable them to use wireless on the 360 they were forced to comply with Microsoft's wireless standard.

[cuddie]

Because to enable them to use wireless on the 360 they were forced to comply with Microsoft's wireless standard.
where did he say anything about wireless lol? he just said that the 360 les pauls work with RB.

[sprinter461]

Because to enable them to use wireless on the 360 they were forced to comply with Microsoft's wireless standard.

Microsoft has a wireless standard for how signals are used with the system, not how the individual buttons are mapped. There is no "wireless guitar" standard for this sort of controller.

I could make a similar game, license the wireless technolgy from Microsoft so my controllers could interact with the 360 without wires... from that point, I can make my buttons be anything I want them to be. I could use the same 5 colors as Guitar Hero uses, but I could put them in any order I chose, it would be entirely up to me. What is my colors went orangle, green, yellow, red, and blue? When you pressed blue it would press the orange button if you were playiing Guitar Hero... ONLY if I had assigned it to the same axis that Guitar Hero assigned their orange button. The color and arrangement of the buttons wouldn't matter, what would matter was how they were assigned to the standard axis of a controller.

Now I am using the "wireless" standard I licensed from Microsoft, and assigned them to map the normal functions how I chose. Is my guitar going to work 100&#37; with Guitar Hero? Not unless I knew exactly what colors, what order they were in, and mapped them to the exact same axis. But since there is no white paper, or written standard saying you have to use these 5 colors, in this set sequence, and the yellow button is the normal Y axis, and the blue button is the normal X axis etc... there is no such thing as an open standard. Until an official standard is made, and all manufacturers adhere to it, no standardized controllers will exist.

Imagine if a standard did not exist for regular controllers. And every 3rd party manufacturer could just do whatever the hell they wanted with the button mapping, wouldn't that be fun?

Personally I blame Microsoft and Sony, Sony in particular. This should of been set in stone before Guitar Hero 1 was ever released on the PS2. There should of been a standard formalized, and all manufacturers should of been forced to comply with it, to gain certification to work with a given system. It's been done with the standard style game controllers. It *should* of been done with these as well.

And this applies equally to any guitar controller, wired or wireless.

[Quinarvy]

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/756/756359p1.html

Felt like pointing that out.

No, the thing is really like this.

The Tale of Rock Band Guitar Hero
-RedOctance partners with developer Harmonix to create Guitar Hero, the cult hit spawns a sequel, both are crazily amazing and good times are had by all.
-Activision takes notice, snatches up the publisher, RedOctance, but not Harmonix, and gives the series to the Tony Hawk team, Neversoft.
-Activison jumps in joy, they now have a stranglehold on two video game markets, instrument based music simulators and skating games.

Part II
-MTV buys the now lonely Harmonix and they work on a new game, that has guitar, bass, drums, and mics. Rock Band is born.
-MTV partners with EA, Activisions rival, to put out Rock Band.
-Activision loses the skating game market hold to skate. and the music game hold to Rock Band.

Long story short, Activision wants Rock Band dead. Why? Because they want EA dead. Why? Because EA is their rival, and frankly, ActiBlizzard wants a strangle hold on video games in general (at least, thats how I see it).

[sprinter461]

HMX never lied. All NORMAL functioning guitar controllers work. It just so happens that there's no controller standard for PS3 so there's no such thing as a "normal functioning controller" unless it's the controller that comes with your PS3 or it's the one that comes in the box with the game you buy.

Does Rock Band not see the Les Paul as a SIXAXXIS controller? Is the SIXAXXIS not the default controller for the PS3? Seems to me if Rock Band had made their game 100% compatible with the Sony SIXAXXIS, they wouldn't be having these problems...

[espher]

Does Rock Band not see the Les Paul as a SIXAXXIS controller? Is the SIXAXXIS not the default controller for the PS3? Seems to me if Rock Band had made their game 100% compatible with the Sony SIXAXXIS, they wouldn't be having these problems...

Why, because it would work with a Sixaxis and not necessarily with the GH3 controller, assuming the mappings are done in a manner similar to the GH2 controllers? :3

[sprinter461]

Game developer A who made a Joystick would never threaten Game developer B because B wanted their game to work with A's stick in PC gaming, why does everyones' brains turn to sludge when it's a console game?

Because the PC is an open platform. Game consoles are proprietary. It's all about money.

[Frederf]

Imagine if a standard did not exist for regular controllers. And every 3rd party manufacturer could just do whatever the hell they wanted with the button mapping, wouldn't that be fun?

The counter to this argument is that any way a controller manufacture can try to throw a wrench in things, the software can straighten it all back out again so long as the software can identify what controller it is and is free from any legal mumbo jumbo forbidding it from making it work as intended.


it is crazy that the Strat doesnt work with the Guitar Hero series. I am sure Actiblizzard would like to allow the strat to work on their game if their controllers work for RB. That makes sense.

Actiblizzard as you call them absolutely does not want to allow that. They've said so many a time. Sense is not their forte.

[DesiredFX]

Ultimately, this move by Activision takes them further out of the mix where making this sort of music game into a family/casual experience is concerned.

GH3 has already proven to have shifted the franchise toward a pool of guitar game elitists who would rather push buttons really fast and brag about it than come away from the game experience feeling like they'd just come as close as they ever would to performing a song in front of an audience of thousands.

So now, with their software moving away from the casual gamer realm, they also block their controller from working with the game that is emerging to fill the void created.

The term "short-sighted" keeps coming up in my thinking: they've reduced the appeal of their franchise and made their peripherals not only exclusive to their game, but also presently unavailable as a separate purchase.

The only way this strategy can be successful is if all the finger-crossing, chanting, and deals with the devil intended to make Rock Band go away somehow miraculously work.

[Ventura]

Actiblizzard as you call them absolutely does not want to allow that. They've said so many a time. Sense is not their forte.

That's the problem.

Demand for the Les Paul working in Rock Band will counter demand for the strat working in Guitar Hero 3 by about 100 to 1, if not more. For now, they have the upper hand, and it's safe to say that they know it.

It won't always be that way though. A few months down the track when the issues with the strat have been ironed out and everyone who wants another has been able to pick one up standalone, all anyone is going to remember from what happened around now is how Activision were behaving like such w@nkers.

In the long term, this isn't going to do them any favours.

[Bakkster]

That's the problem.

Demand for the Les Paul working in Rock Band will counter demand for the strat working in Guitar Hero 3 by about 100 to 1, if not more. For now, they have the upper hand, and it's safe to say that they know it.

It won't always be that way though. A few months down the track when the issues with the strat have been ironed out and everyone who wants another has been able to pick one up standalone, all anyone is going to remember from what happened around now is how Activision were behaving like such w@nkers.

In the long term, this isn't going to do them any favours.

And that's the way a market economy is supposed to work. Whoever makes the best product, wins. Apparently Activision doesn't even want 1-way compatibility that works in their favor!

While I wouldn't say this is a legal offense (although it might be), I think it's clearly an offense on the consumer.

[ShadowOfEden]

Would you Rather pay $60 for another Strat control or $99 for GH3 and a control thats compatible with Rock band ? many of us already have GH3, and those of us who don't
wouldn't mind spending another $39 to get another awesome harmonix game.



It's not an Harmonix game, that's why it doesn't work.

[q445187]

Activision: It's Harmonix's fault


Activision shifts blame back on Harmonix and MTV Games for Rock Band compatibility issues with PS3 Guitar Hero controller.

By Randolph Ramsay <http://www.gamespot.com/users/RandolphRam/> , GameSpot AU <http://au.gamespot.com/>

Posted Dec 13, 2007 8:30 pm MT

The game industry's newest feud has escalated into a full-scale open argument. Earlier this week, Harmonix laid the blame <http://www.gamespot.com/news/6183944.html> squarely on Activision for the lack of compatibility between Activision's Les Paul Guitar Hero III controller for the PS3 and the recently released Rock Band. Harmonix claimed Activision had "objected" to releasing a patch which would fix the compatibility issue. But Activision has hit back, claiming it's actually Harmonix and parent company MTV Games/Viacom which haven't come to the party.

In a press statement, Activision claims that Harmonix and MTV Games had recently "declined Activision’s offer to reach an agreement that would allow the use of Guitar Hero guitar controllers with Rock Band". "We have been and remain open to discussions with Harmonix and MTV Games/Viacom about the use of our technology in Rock Band. Unfortunately for Rock Band users, in this case Harmonix and MTV Games/Viacom are unwilling to discuss an agreement with Activision," the statement said.

"Activision’s top priority is to provide consumers with a seamless marriage of best-in-class hardware and software. We are focusing our efforts on innovating hardware and software that are designed to work together, work flawlessly and provide an enjoyable gaming experience."

The statement provided no other details on exactly what sort of agreement Activision was seeking from the makers of Rock Band.

[bacchus]

I think it's simpler than that. Here's a more likely scenario..

http://community.rockband.com/vbforum/showthread.php?p=194999