HMX/EA has failed with the PS3 users

[gamingeek]

Okay it's great that you guys tried to make us PS3 owners a patch and all but....

This is clearly a case of you guys not getting the proper permissions to do so before the game went to market. You should have found out ahead of tim whether or not Activision was going to play ball. I think that all of us here can pretty much agree and hope for an open standard in guitar controllers. The reality is that this is not currently the case and the GH controllers are a proprietary technology.

However you guys went and sold standalone versions anyway even though there is no support for them.

[Wizzer]

Okay it's great that you guys tried to make us PS3 owners a patch and all but....

This is clearly a case of you guys not getting the proper permissions to do so before the game went to market. You should have found out ahead of tim whether or not Activision was going to play ball. I think that all of us here can pretty much agree and hope for an open standard in guitar controllers. The reality is that this is not currently the case and the GH controllers are a proprietary technology.

However you guys went and sold standalone versions anyway even though there is no support for them.

So you are saying that they shouldn't have even created the game for the PS3 and made it a 360 Exclusive?

They did their best and produced a game that, out of the box, does everything that was intended. They are trying their best to make sure that you, the user, can do what you want to with the game even after hitting roadblocks from other companies.

How again is this their fault?

[espher]

Christ you cry a lot.

So you think Harmonix lies and hates you.

We get it.

We got it the first 67 times.

[Quastor]

But remember, even though they failed you, they still love you. It was their drive to love you that ultimately caused them to fail.

It's a vicious, vicious circle.

[gamingeek]

If they weren't going to be able to support the only "other guitar controller" available for the PS3 they should not have alluded to that they could. They should have known this before release and not sold standalone copies of the game w/o any proper support. As it is now it is an unplayable game for us and quite useless. Not to mention that nobody who bought the special edition can play with FOUR PLAYERS. You know, the way they ADVERTISED it.

[logicalnoise]

Okay it's great that you guys tried to make us PS3 owners a patch and all but....

This is clearly a case of you guys not getting the proper permissions to do so before the game went to market. You should have found out ahead of tim whether or not Activision was going to play ball. I think that all of us here can pretty much agree and hope for an open standard in guitar controllers. The reality is that this is not currently the case and the GH controllers are a proprietary technology.

However you guys went and sold standalone versions anyway even though there is no support for them.

dude you just post and never read anything. GH3 came out one month before RB. ONE MONTH! Inorder to produce the hardware on time RB was going gold pretty much just as GH3 came out. There was no time to get a properly done test. they sold seperate discs because every week this forum was filled with people demanding it. SOme just wanted to have the disc so they could by buy the individual instruments later. They got what they wanted. The myth of ps3 guitar compatiblity was started by IGN not HMX.

[gamingeek]

Christ you cry a lot.

So you think Harmonix lies and hates you.

We get it.

We got it the first 67 times.

So tell EA/HMX to give me a refund and you'll never have to hear from me again. ;)

[Sentouki]

Okay it's great that you guys tried to make us PS3 owners a patch and all but....

This is clearly a case of you guys not getting the proper permissions to do so before the game went to market. You should have found out ahead of tim whether or not Activision was going to play ball. I think that all of us here can pretty much agree and hope for an open standard in guitar controllers. The reality is that this is not currently the case and the GH controllers are a proprietary technology.

However you guys went and sold standalone versions anyway even though there is no support for them.

How do you get the proper permission when they DONT GIVE IT

[vtjustinb]

Your tears sustain me.

[logicalnoise]

If they weren't going to be able to support the only "other guitar controller" available for the PS3 they should not have alluded to that they could. They should have known this before release and not sold standalone copies of the game w/o any proper support. As it is now it is an unplayable game for us and quite useless. Not to mention that nobody who bought the special edition can play with FOUR PLAYERS. You know, the way they ADVERTISED it.

They never said it would people assumed. And if you have a sub mic you can play the game just fine though only on vocals of course. They advertised it as working with most ryhtm controlelrs a statement that has been proven true.

[gamingeek]

No tears here lovey. Lots of rage though.

[JetWolf]

So tell EA/HMX to give me a refund and you'll never have to hear from me again. ;)

And you can't get your coveted golden refund from the store why now?

Because seriously, I think we would all gleefully chip in for the cab fare.

[sensei]

Stop blaming them, blame yourself for creating another thread about the same stuff ok we get it but whatever man next time dont buy the crappy GH and everyone will be happy.

[logicalnoise]

So tell EA/HMX to give me a refund and you'll never have to hear from me again. ;)

well have you tried....I don't know the customer support line you know the phone number that lets you talk to actual HMX support people?

[gamingeek]

And you can't get your coveted golden refund from the store why now?

Because seriously, I think we would all gleefully chip in for the cab fare.

Nope-- because it has already been opened they and there is no defect with the item itself the best they will do is a used credit.

[espher]

If they weren't going to be able to support the only "other guitar controller" available for the PS3 they should not have alluded to that they could.

I think "most music controllers" is a better statement than "our controllers and upcoming controllers that any third-party developers choose to make, but not the GH3 controllers because Activision is acting like douchebags -- except we only found out that we couldn't offer support after the game was on shelves so we can't go back in time and test the hardware and code compatibility prior to Rock Band going gold and/or fix the labels despite our intentions to fully support the only other third-party guitar on the market at the time of launch".

It's a blanket statement.


They should have known this before release and not sold standalone copies of the game w/o any proper support. As it is now it is an unplayable game for us and quite useless. Not to mention that nobody who bought the special edition can play with FOUR PLAYERS. You know, the way they ADVERTISED it.

Really? They advertised the bundle as being for four players and the standalone game as being compatible with the Les Paul? I must have completely missed that.

It's compatible with all PS3 music game controllers aside from the Les Paul and all USB microphones. Unfortunately, there's a hardware shortage for first-party controllers, and no third-party manufacturers have product out yet.

A lack of foresight on your part (for example, reading) does not necessarily constitute a problem on their part.

Edit: I won't tell them to give you a refund because I, as a matter of personal belief, do not support this 'customer is always right' bull**** that has permeated North American society, nor do I believe in giving people money for being stupid.

[JetWolf]

Then this is clearly a case of you not getting the proper permissions from your vendor before the game went to market. You should've found out ahead of time whether or not they were going to play ball.

[DesiredFX]

Ah. I knew I'd been missing something in gamingeek's posts.

This is all about the stand-alone version. No wonder he's jumping down HMX's throat.

Remember that it says on the game, in English (which is the language you're posting in), that the game works with "most music game controllers."

Music game controllers for the PS3 currently include:

Any USB mic.

Rock Band drums.

Rock Band guitar.

Guitar Hero III guitar.

And--if you want to stretch it--the PS3 SIXAXIS.

That means it works with three out of four specific peripherals and one entire category of peripherals. This clearly qualifies as "most."

The statement on the package--and, indeed, any statement from Harmonix--doesn't specify that the GH3 LP is one of the controllers, nor does it guarantee that you will be able to separately purchase any compatible controllers (apart from the mic and SIXAXIS) at the time you buy the game.

So...are we done here? Can we give it a rest, now?

[SoulScreme]

They never said it would people assumed. And if you have a sub mic you can play the game just fine though only on vocals of course. They advertised it as working with most ryhtm controlelrs a statement that has been proven true.

Really? USB mics comprise most rhythm controllers? Wouldn't even consider a mic a rhythm controller.

[gamingeek]

Then this is clearly a case of you not getting the proper permissions from your vendor before the game went to market. You should've found out ahead of time whether or not they were going to play ball.

I sincerely hope that the next time you have a problem with something you bought that people tell you to go shove it where the sun don't shine.

[espher]

I sincerely hope that the next time you have a problem with something you bought that people tell you to go shove it where the sun don't shine.

I certainly would if I didn't do my research.

If I buy a product without

a) Verifying that I have everything I need for it, and
b) Verifying that the things I don't already have for it are available

then I expect to pay the price.

It's unfortunate that it's software and you can't return it because it's opened, unlike, say, a car tire, but that's copyright law for you.

It's only a 'deceptive statement' because the average consumer does not do research they really should do, and because Activision are being dicks.

[SoulScreme]

Ah. I knew I'd been missing something in gamingeek's posts.

This is all about the stand-alone version. No wonder he's jumping down HMX's throat.

Remember that it says on the game, in English (which is the language you're posting in), that the game works with "most music game controllers."

Music game controllers for the PS3 currently include:

Any USB mic.

Rock Band drums.

Rock Band guitar.

Guitar Hero III guitar.

And--if you want to stretch it--the PS3 SIXAXIS.

That means it works with three out of four specific peripherals and one entire category of peripherals. This clearly qualifies as "most."

The statement on the package--and, indeed, any statement from Harmonix--doesn't specify that the GH3 LP is one of the controllers, nor does it guarantee that you will be able to separately purchase any compatible controllers (apart from the mic and SIXAXIS) at the time you buy the game.

So...are we done here? Can we give it a rest, now?

Desired, I love ya, but that is logically false. By putting that statement on the package, the average consumer will see two things implied.

1) This statement is meant to apply to controller not built specifically for the game. So, get rid of the RB drums and guitar.

2) The statement says "controllers" not "USB microphones," thus the consumer can logically assume it means drums if they are made and guitars which are made.

It's a deceptive statement that should be removed form the packaging.

[DesiredFX]

Desired, I love ya, but that is logically false. By putting that statement on the package, the average consumer will see two things implied.

I feel ya, but the problem is that the key to turning an implication into a problem is what assumption you choose to pair with it.

If I'm smart, I see "most music game controllers" and ask, "which ones don't work?" because "most" is a clear indication that at least one doesn't.

Now, I'm not smart, because I have GHIII gathering dust in my home because foolish-consumer-excited-about-playing-shiny-new-guitar-game-me shoved intelligent-consumer-do-research-before-buying-me into a closet while remaining convinced that everything would be fine when Rock Band came out. After all, didn't IGN and Gamespot both say that the LP is compatible with Rock Band?

For making that decision without doing real research, there's no one to blame but myself for the purchase of what has become a mouldering hunk of electronics and a game I will never again sully my PS3 with.

If you find the statement vague, learn from my lesson, be smarter than me, and research it before putting your money down.

[Highlandlassie]

The only things I see that EA and Harmonix did to let PS3 owners down was this:

1. They released a game in a bundle that was incomplete.

2. They released a stand alone game that could not be played.

They needed to either:

Include a package that had 2 guitars in the box for like $250, OR, better yet have stand alone guitars and drums available at launch time so they could be purchased seperately.

We had to buy 2 sets on launch day to be able to play Rock band AS A BAND.

It is only money, but for those who could not afford to do that , and assumed their P.O.S. Les Pauls would work, got screwed.

To not have guitars and drums available seperatlely at launch and selling a stand alone game is just plain WRONG.

[Yateball]

The game for PS3 is still absolutely incredible, and the only thing Activision screws us out of is the extra (bass) guitar. Big deal.

I own a 360 and PS3 and still chose to buy it for the PS3... mostly because of free on-line.

PS3 owners did NOT get screwed.

Best game I've ever played.

[funINfuneral]

thanks guys for screwing us Sony owners over.


Thanks a bunch.

[Yateball]

thanks guys for screwing us Sony owners over.


Thanks a bunch.
LOL

We simply did not get screwed over at all

[JetWolf]

I sincerely hope that the next time you have a problem with something you bought that people tell you to go shove it where the sun don't shine.

And I sincerely hope that you manage to learn something from this experience (oh please let something positive arise) and will:

a) do full research next time
b) make provisions for or adapt to miscalculations
c) accept responsibility for failings in (a) and/or (b).

All else aside, I get that you're angry about the controller not working. I really do. But direct the anger to where it's deserved: yourself or Activision. Hell, split the anger between the two, it seems you have more than enough to go around.

HMX never said "This will work with GH3 controllers." The fact that there was so much questioning and speculation about whether they would or wouldn't right up until launch day should have been a gigantic red flag. I myself had several different purchasing strategies to ensure I could spend as little as possible to get what I wanted. It's my money, and at the end of the day, the only one who can spend it is me, and the only one who cares if I'm responsible with it is, again, me.

Activision/RO are the ones boning you guys right now, and have been since the beginning. HMX wanted everything to be open, so that consumers could chose the controllers that worked best for them. Activision/RO said no. Went OUT OF THEIR WAY to lock out their controllers. HMX did their best to work around those blocks. Worked feverishly to get a patch that would fix all the problems. And who's still saying no? Who's still going out of their way to give you high blood pressure?

Be angry. You have every right to be angry. Just be angry at those who deserve it.

[logicalnoise]

The only things I see that EA and Harmonix did to let PS3 owners down was this:

1. They released a game in a bundle that was incomplete.

2. They released a stand alone game that could not be played.

They needed to either:

Include a package that had 2 guitars in the box for like $250, OR, better yet have stand alone guitars and drums available at launch time so they could be purchased seperately.

We had to buy 2 sets on launch day to be able to play Rock band AS A BAND.

It is only money, but for those who could not afford to do that , and assumed their P.O.S. Les Pauls would work, got screwed.

Matter of fact go sell your copy online. I'm sure you could still get 60 bucks for it because despite everything the game is still selling and people still love it. WHich I'm sure just upsets you.
To not have guitars and drums available seperatlely at launch and selling a stand alone game is just plain WRONG.

It'd only be wrong if everyone on these boards hadn't demanded it no matter what. People wanted the game by itself they simply obliged. The plan was to launch with extra controllers available but considering pre-orders were starting to sell out a month ahead of the game they relaize ditw asn't feasible and just increased the amount of special edition bundles being produced and delaye dthe seperate controllers.

Also teh compatible with most staement states nothing about system ro brand. By doing that teh statement is correct RB works with all of it's seperate controllers, The Les paul 360 and the xplorer 360 hell the ps2 version even supports teh old ps2 controllers. It's simplt activsisioon blocking it. They've tried to fix teh issue but sony is blocking them because of activision and then tehre's customers liek you who refuse to actually call EA or HMX and ask for a refund you'd rather just get your attention gland stroked here.

[gamingeek]

LOL

We simply did not get screwed over at all

Yet the 360 users get full GH compatibility. Don't explain to me again the reasons for thsi as I don't care. If I pay the same amount for a product I expect it to work the same.

[Highlandlassie]

Best game I've ever played.


Oh yea, I forgot to mention that fact.

It is the best game ever created in my opinion.

[funINfuneral]

it just doesnt make sense.

[DesiredFX]

To not have guitars and drums available seperatlely at launch and selling a stand alone game is just plain WRONG.

This is one of those situations where you have to balance smart business practices with consumer satisfaction.

Say you learn that your factory can only build you enough peripherals to put together 100,000 bundles.

Now, factoring out the issues they had with defective peripherals:

Do you release 100,000 bundles and make a 100,000 people generally pretty happy, or do you take 25,000 of the guitar controllers and sell them separately (or include them in uber-bundles), making 75,000 people generally pretty happy and possibly more than pretty happy?

Then look at the dollars involved.

Assuming I sell all the product I make available:

100,000 bundles at $170 gives me $17M in sales.

75,000 bundles at $170 gets me $12.75M in sales, plus 25,000 guitars at $60 gets a further $1.5M.

Do I want to make 100,000 customers generally very happy while raking in $17M, or 75,000 maybe a little more happy while raking in $14.25M?

[gamingeek]

This is one of those situations where you have to balance smart business practices with consumer satisfaction.

Say you learn that your factory can only build you enough peripherals to put together 100,000 bundles.

Now, factoring out the issues they had with defective peripherals:

Do you release 100,000 bundles and make a 100,000 people generally pretty happy, or do you take 25,000 of the guitar controllers and sell them separately (or include them in uber-bundles), making 75,000 people generally pretty happy and possibly more than pretty happy?

Then look at the dollars involved.

Assuming I sell all the product I make available:

100,000 bundles at $170 gives me $17M in sales.

75,000 bundles at $170 gets me $12.75M in sales, plus 25,000 guitars at $60 gets a further $1.5M.

Do I want to make 100,000 customers generally very happy while raking in $17M, or 75,000 maybe a little more happy while raking in $14.25M?



Fine fine fine all good. But they still need to provide those of us who bought the standalone version an alternative.

[ubikkibu]

Rock Band is the most fun I've had with a video game. I'm not sure I consider it a game--it's really a "music platform" as they intended. I'm going to be playing this for a long time.

The PS3 guitar patch issue is very disappointing, but that's business. Harmonix seems to have made a good effort for us, but Activision is the problem.

I just can't fathom wasting so much energy complaining about this. I sold my GH3 crap and I've contacted Activision to let them know how disappointed I am.

I'm just psyched to get the punk DLC for Rock Band today. Life is good.

[gamingeek]

Rock Band is the most fun I've had with a video game. I'm not sure I consider it a game--it's really a "music platform" as they intended. I'm going to be playing this for a long time.

The PS3 guitar patch issue is very disappointing, but that's business. Harmonix seems to have made a good effort for us, but Activision is the problem.

I just can't fathom wasting so much energy complaining about this. I sold my GH3 crap and I've contacted Activision to let them know how disappointed I am.

I'm just psyched to get the punk DLC for Rock Band today. Life is good.


Life is good for you because you CAN PLAY your game. And I reiterate that EA/HMX should have cleared this whole thing up BEFORE they shipped the item. Activision are being *****s and that's for sure, but that is not my problem as a consumer. It's the company who made the game's deal. They are obligated to give me a product that I can use. If not a refund is in order.

[Bakkster]

All else aside, I get that you're angry about the controller not working. I really do. But direct the anger to where it's deserved: yourself or Activision. Hell, split the anger between the two, it seems you have more than enough to go around.

Exactly. Heaven forbid customers research before spending their money!

< sarcasm >And why should we blame Activision? All they want is what's best for themselves and not the consumer! We shouldn't have any rights, and I want to spend more money and have 4 guitar controllers! Who does HMX think they are, trying to do what's best for me? I want to be forced to pay extra money because of a manufactured incompatibility!< /sarcasm >

Poor Activision fanboys...

[Highlandlassie]

It'd only be wrong if everyone on these boards hadn't demanded it no matter what. People wanted the game by itself they simply obliged. The plan was to launch with extra controllers available but considering pre-orders were starting to sell out a month ahead of the game they relaize ditw asn't feasible and just increased the amount of special edition bundles being produced and delaye dthe seperate controllers.

Also teh compatible with most staement states nothing about system ro brand. By doing that teh statement is correct RB works with all of it's seperate controllers, The Les paul 360 and the xplorer 360 hell the ps2 version even supports teh old ps2 controllers. It's simplt activsisioon blocking it. They've tried to fix teh issue but sony is blocking them because of activision and then tehre's customers liek you who refuse to actually call EA or HMX and ask for a refund you'd rather just get your attention gland stroked here.


Ask for a refund??


Are you insane?


This is the best game ever created in my opinion, it just sucks that they did not have this all ready to go at launch time.

Oh, and instead of stroking your gland, learn to spell, reading your gibberish is almost impossible.

[Wizzer]

Life is good for you because you CAN PLAY your game. And I reiterate that EA/HMX should have cleared this whole thing up BEFORE they shipped the item. Activision are being *****s and that's for sure, but that is not my problem as a consumer. It's the company who made the game's deal. They are obligated to give me a product that I can use. If not a refund is in order.

How exactly can you NOT PLAY the game? Out of the box there are three controllers that allow you to play the game.

Out of the Box I was able to play the game on launch day and have been playing nearly every day since. We have three people in my house and there are three viable controllers that allow us to play.

[gamingeek]

Exactly. Heaven forbid customers research before spending their money!

< sarcasm >And why should we blame Activision? All they want is what's best for themselves and not the consumer! We shouldn't have any rights, and I want to spend more money and have 4 guitar controllers! Who does HMX think they are, trying to do what's best for me? I want to be forced to pay extra money because of a manufactured incompatibility!< /sarcasm >

Poor Activision fanboys...

Look as hard as this is for some to comprehend I am NO ACTIVISION FANBOY. Quite frankly this whole matter makes me very pissed at them. But ACTIVISION DID NOT SELL ME A PRODUCT THAT I CANNOT USE. GET IT?

[terRize]

Christ you cry a lot.

So you think Harmonix lies and hates you.

We get it.

We got it the first 67 times.

So true. Now if only they'd stop or keep it to one thread. There's a whole thread in the announcement forum, complain there.

[gamingeek]

How exactly can you NOT PLAY the game? Out of the box there are three controllers that allow you to play the game.

Out of the Box I was able to play the game on launch day and have been playing nearly every day since. We have three people in my house and there are three viable controllers that allow us to play.

STANDALONE COPY-- if you choose to respond read the thread please.

[TheWabbit]

They don't need to provide you anything. Return the game. If they won't take it back, take it to court.

You took a risk on a new technology and you are going to have to wait until either Activision changes its mind or the individual instruments are available.

You have alternatives, you just don't like them.

[FultonPub]

Christ you cry a lot.

So you think Harmonix lies and hates you.

We get it.

We got it the first 67 times.

Amen brutha! If it weren't for the disgruntled canadians and ps3 owners this forum would have nothing to talk about!

[DesiredFX]

Fine fine fine all good. But they still need to provide those of us who bought the standalone version an alternative.

What they provided was:

Word that there would be no independently available peripherals for the stand-alone version until next year.

A statement that "any controller following open standards" would work with RB and that they were willing to help any developers who wanted to ensure compatibility.

A label that said it would work with "most music game controllers."

Like many people--including me--you added the three factors together, mixed in a little assumption and maybe some inaccurate information from some gaming sites, and came up with "this means the GHIII PS3 controller will work with Rock Band!"

[gamingeek]

I love how all the EA/HMX/RB fanboys like to twist things. I never said it was conspiracy just poor business practices and a product that was obviously rushed to market for the holidays.

[Teh_Nfsjunkie91]

Look as hard as this is for some to comprehend I am NO ACTIVISION FANBOY. Quite frankly this whole matter makes me very pissed at them. But ACTIVISION DID NOT SELL ME A PRODUCT THAT I CANNOT USE. GET IT?

Actually, you bought a product that you couldn't use. If you had bought the bundle, well, we wouldn't be having any issues right now? Besides, stand-alone guitars are coming soon, so suck it up and buy yourself one when that happens. Or buy one right now off of ebay.

[terRize]

I love how all the EA/HMX/RB fanboys like to twist things. I never said it was conspiracy just poor business practices and a product that was obviously rushed to market for the holidays.

And this is different from 99% of other games how?

Take the game back, ***** enough and they will probably even give you a refund instead of an exchange for a different game.

[ubikkibu]

If you bought the standalone game, you can play it with the PS3 controller. Yes, I know that's inferior, but it's not strictly true that you can't play the game. It was also well-known that individual RB instruments would not be available for months.

Although Harmonix made an optimistic statement (and then did the engineering to make it come true), it was never guaranteed that your GH3 guitar would work. Now that it doesn't, Activision is to blame. There are forums at guitarhero.com where your comments would make more sense.

It's hugely disappointing, but that's life as an early adopter.

[DesiredFX]

I love how all the EA/HMX/RB fanboys like to twist things. I never said it was conspiracy just poor business practices and a product that was obviously rushed to market for the holidays.

I don't think anyone has denied that the product went out the door quicker than it should have, but...come on. That's a standard approach in this country: if you want big Christmas sales, you want to launch by Thanksgiving.

My objection has been to the fact that you won't take responsibility for your own lack of thorough research and the consumer immaturity that allowed you to effectively impulse buy a product without knowing what you were getting.

I've owned up to my own assumptions and the money that I wasted on GHIII.

You've taken your lack of responsibility as a consumer and attempted to project it onto HMX/EA in the form of "poor business practices."

[terRize]

Look as hard as this is for some to comprehend I am NO ACTIVISION FANBOY. Quite frankly this whole matter makes me very pissed at them. But ACTIVISION DID NOT SELL ME A PRODUCT THAT I CANNOT USE. GET IT?

Some ideas:

Call EA and report a broken guitar or drum. They will send you one, and then you don't send yours back. You get charged 100 dollars. Not a preferred method I know but an idea.

Go buy a usb microphone and sing.

You can use it, you just choose not to use it in the ways available to you. There's a difference, albeit not one that really makes you happy.

I'm sorry you got shafted on the standalone.. like i said in previous post return it for the bundle or return it period if you aren't happy. Sell it on ebay, burn it in effigy or whatever. Tape it and put on youtube for millions to see your anger at HMX/MTV/EA.

[Wizzer]

STANDALONE COPY-- if you choose to respond read the thread please.

You are one of those people that buys a Hummer before measuring your garage to see if it would fit aren't you.

So the truth is that you bought a game without ensuring, without any doubt, that you have the proper equipment. There was nothing prior to launch that said, with certainty, "The GHIII Les Paul controller will work with the game".

Based on this you are upset with a company that is doing EVERYTHING IT CAN to ensure that you can play the game, but is being blocked by the company that made the precious controller you hold so dear.

Seriously, stop whining, this is your own fault.

[DesiredFX]

They knew in advance the guitars had problems, at The Rockband Tour 2007 truck there was a stack of guitars, I picked one up, and the guy told me they were all "broken".

That fact probably prompted them to save all the stand alone guitars for replacements.
Where are all these replacements coming from?

And how does this explain the lack of a stand-alone drum kit or microphone? The apparent level of defective product in the mics is about nil, and in the drum kits is nowhere near what it is with the guitars.

Sure, they want guitar controllers to be able to use for replacements, and sure they want drum kits for the same reason. But I can guarantee you that any peripherals that are not set aside as replacements are going into bundle boxes that sell for $170 and they're having trouble keeping on the shelves.

And while I may be addled, here, I remember hearing about the separate peripherals slipping to 2008 before the Rock Band Tour even started.

[terRize]

That fact probably prompted them to save all the stand alone guitars for replacements.
Where are all these replacements coming from?

My guess is the guitars come from factories where people work 8 hours a day on an assembly line.. uhm.. assembling them.. I know crazy idea. I'm guessing they can make quite a few of these in day, course this is an assumption based on things like the Wii's 1.8 million unit production a month.

[Grey_Street]

This is one of those situations where you have to balance smart business practices with consumer satisfaction.

Say you learn that your factory can only build you enough peripherals to put together 100,000 bundles.

Now, factoring out the issues they had with defective peripherals:

Do you release 100,000 bundles and make a 100,000 people generally pretty happy, or do you take 25,000 of the guitar controllers and sell them separately (or include them in uber-bundles), making 75,000 people generally pretty happy and possibly more than pretty happy?

Then look at the dollars involved.

Assuming I sell all the product I make available:

100,000 bundles at $170 gives me $17M in sales.

75,000 bundles at $170 gets me $12.75M in sales, plus 25,000 guitars at $60 gets a further $1.5M.

Do I want to make 100,000 customers generally very happy while raking in $17M, or 75,000 maybe a little more happy while raking in $14.25M?

I think you are forgetting that selling the 25,000 guitars standalone, doesn't make those 25,000 drums and 25,000 mics that they were to be packaged w/ disappear. So if you are looking at it from a profit perspective, you have $60 for the game, $60 for the guitar and that leaves $50 for both drums and mic to equal the bundle price...

[DesiredFX]

I think you are forgetting that selling the 25,000 guitars standalone, doesn't make those 25,000 drums and 25,000 mics that they were to be packaged w/ disappear. So if you are looking at it from a profit perspective, you have $60 for the game, $60 for the guitar and that leaves $50 for both drums and mic to equal the bundle price...

It becomes a question of diminishing returns, though: Harmonix and EA know that the big drivers for this game are the drum kit and the guitar controller, so they package up the bundle as a bargain for people who want the drums--for $30 more than the retail of the game plus the drum kit, you get the game, drum kit, a guitar controller and a mic.

How popular will 25,000 drum kits and stand-alone copies of the game be when it costs $140 to get them? You stand very little chance of selling them before the 75,000 bundles are gone.

(And I really don't think I even need to mention a USB mic that would be massively overpriced at $30, especially when there are dozens of a alternatives on the market.)

At this point, it's a tiny group of consumers who are looking for a second drum kit relative to the consumers who want a second guitar. Reduce 100,000 bundles to 75,000 to nut out 25,000 guitars, and you're pretty much guaranteed that all the guitars will sell. I don't think you can say the same about the drum kits.

[Grey_Street]

It becomes a question of diminishing returns, though: Harmonix and EA know that the big drivers for this game are the drum kit and the guitar controller, so they package up the bundle as a bargain for people who want the drums--for $30 more than the retail of the game plus the drum kit, you get the game, drum kit, a guitar controller and a mic.

How popular will 25,000 drum kits and stand-alone copies of the game be when it costs $140 to get them?

(And I really don't think I even need to mention a USB mic that would be massively overpriced at $30, especially when there are dozens of a alternatives on the market.)

At this point, it's a tiny group of consumers who are looking for a second drum kit relative to the consumers who want a second guitar. Reduce 100,000 bundles to 75,000 to nut out 25,000 guitars, and you're pretty much guaranteed that all the guitars will sell.I don't think you can say the same about the drum kits.

Yeah, that's probably true. I was just bring it up :)

I did have friends that wanted to just buy the game and drums...but two things stopped that idea short. First the obvious, no standalone drums, and second, they had just wanted to do this for our online band but now online BWT yet :( Hopefully both will come!

[DesiredFX]

Yeah, that's probably true. I was just bring it up :)

That's cool. I've actually made a sort of a nerd game out of number-crunching the business decision behind this approach, and while I don't always type it out every time, I've considered a pretty large number of scenarios.

[Bakkster]

Look as hard as this is for some to comprehend I am NO ACTIVISION FANBOY. Quite frankly this whole matter makes me very pissed at them. But ACTIVISION DID NOT SELL ME A PRODUCT THAT I CANNOT USE. GET IT?

Which is why you're defending Activision?


The point is it's their proprietary controller. They don't have to allow RB to use it. I am all for an open standard but that is simply not the reality. EA/HMX should have cleared this matter up BEFORE they ever shipped this item.

I'm no more a HMX fanboy than you are an Activision fanboy.

[Bluvox]

And how does this explain the lack of a stand-alone drum kit or microphone?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8507528&st=logitech&lp=4&type=product&cp=1&id=1186005386794

The Rock Band microphone is made by Logitech (at least the 360 one is). You can go snag one from Best Buy, if you don't already have one for singstar or whatever.

All set.

[eVan_Diesel]

I do feel incredibly let down...

[CCBacara]

He sure does wine a lot, thats for sure.

And can't you use a standard controller to play the guitar? I know you can in GH3, not sure about Rock Band.

Did anyone else buy the standalone copy of this game? Seems pretty pointless even if planning on using the GH3 controller. To play rock band as a standalone guitar game when you already have a standalone guitar game? A better standalone guitar game at that (only in my opinion that is). The great part about Rock Band for most of us I think is the drums and the band play. Just my two cents...

[CCBacara]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8507528&st=logitech&lp=4&type=product&cp=1&id=1186005386794

The Rock Band microphone is made by Logitech (at least the 360 one is). You can go snag one from Best Buy, if you don't already have one for singstar or whatever.

All set.


Says right in the Rock Band manual, as well as the tutorial, ANY usb mic will work.

[webduelist]

ok this is my point on this activison can block that patch for now if thats really whats going on but hmx can come back saying that it is a update to there game to make it 6 axis controller compatble and not nessisarly for the gh lps,

Im a 360 owner and if you really want to play rock band take your ps3 back and get a 360 much better dashboard plus you know the xbox has halo. muhahahaha xbox rules.

[terRize]

ok this is my point on this activison can block that patch for now if thats really whats going on but hmx can come back saying that it is a update to there game to make it 6 axis controller compatble and not nessisarly for the gh lps,

Im a 360 owner and if you really want to play rock band take your ps3 back and get a 360 much better dashboard plus you know the xbox has halo. muhahahaha xbox rules.

take your console war somewhere else.

[gamingeek]

ok this is my point on this activison can block that patch for now if thats really whats going on but hmx can come back saying that it is a update to there game to make it 6 axis controller compatble and not nessisarly for the gh lps,

Im a 360 owner and if you really want to play rock band take your ps3 back and get a 360 much better dashboard plus you know the xbox has halo. muhahahaha xbox rules.

It rules for the bench techs who have to refurbush them when they break down. Keeps them busy.

[DesiredFX]

[url]The Rock Band microphone is made by Logitech (at least the 360 one is). You can go snag one from Best Buy, if you don't already have one for singstar or whatever.

True. But the point of my argument that explaining away the guitar controllers as "they held onto the individual controllers so they could replace defectives" doesn't explain why we don't see Rock Band brand mics on the shelves.

I actually have a KR2 mic that is almost identical to the RB mic, plus a Logitech headset.

[DesiredFX]

And can't you use a standard controller to play the guitar? I know you can in GH3, not sure about Rock Band.

No, they didn't include standard controller play as an option in RB, which is fine with me: I used to play GH with a girl who refused to use the guitar controller in favor of using the DualShock. If I wanted to do that, I'd boot up Amplitude.

[tbradshaw]

This is just a huge flame. Closing.