I think I've found the anwser as to why Help! is not in the game...

[ElvishSpirit]

http://www.beatles.com/hub/love/site/

1. Go to "Listen"
2. Go to "Interview"
3. Click on #29. "And then the song from the film "Help!""

Now you may say, what does this have to do with The Beatles: Rock Band?

Quote from George Martin: "There's not much we can do to Help!, really, the band recorded it as one track"

The band recorded it as one track. They can't seperate the guitar, bass, drums, etc, so if you can't seperate the track, they can't mute the guitar if you miss the note.

If I'm wrong, please feel free to chime in.

[a1ltobeg0dly16]

you have a good point. this should resolve the complaining.

[vcalzone]

Ouch! Yeah, that would do it!

[martyring]

I don't think that would be the reason, because none of the songs, as far as I know, were recorded with four separate tracks, most of them were two-tracks, as in, they were recorded with multiple instruments on each track, and Giles Martin went through and digitally isolated each instrument for all the other songs in the game, he would be able to for Help! too.

[mva5580]

I don't know for sure if that's the case because it's been said in interviews they had to go back on certain songs and really work hard at extracting certain parts because they were on the same track. They would use the frequencies of each part to separate them on to separate tracks so they could work in the game. Especially on the songs from all the early albums, as those were all done in mono.

It's possible I guess, but from what's been said in interviews it sounds like that's already been done on some songs that are in the game.

[Zerobox94]

Crud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think this is the reason.

[AndywinXp]

Er... This is not true...

Help! 4-track tape is composed by:
Track 1: Bass, Drums
Track 2: Tamborine, Guitar Overdubs
Track 3: Guitars
Track 4: Double-tracked Vocals

And a stereo mix also exists.


So: that's not the reason, because the guitars in the game are bounced into a single track, you can easily separate frequencies for bass and drums, et voila, the song could be in the game.

And what about the Love 5.1 mix?

[Submarine777]

Why do people want Help! so much? If it was in the game then John would ALL of the Shea Stadium songs, 4 if If I Needed Someone is at Shea which it shouldn't because it was actually played to Budokan.

[dabrry0523]

http://www.beatles.com/hub/love/site/

1. Go to "Listen"
2. Go to "Interview"
3. Click on #29. "And then the song from the film "Help!""

Now you may say, what does this have to do with The Beatles: Rock Band?

Quote from George Martin: "There's not much we can do to Help!, really, the band recorded it as one track"

The band recorded it as one track. They can't seperate the guitar, bass, drums, etc, so if you can't seperate the track, they can't mute the guitar if you miss the note.

If I'm wrong, please feel free to chime in.




And if your in the Pre-order club we got this update some time ago "The biggest challenge for us was working with the earlier stuff. We were criticized in Love for using a lot of late stuff. It was easy because it was in 4 track and 8 track, but the material we have for the Cavern Club in the game is 2 track....we’re now at a stage where we don’t have to damage sound. Now you can take away layers and really get beneath the music. We've had to do this extensively with this project and it's been laborious and painstaking. It’s important that people interact with the game, even on the earlier years. So by removing vocals from a track, people can hear instruments. If you make a mistake playing the bass on “Twist and Shout”, you'll hear the fact that you're making a mistake on “Twist and Shout”. The Beatles stuff is about 67 percent the band playing guitar, bass, and drums all on one track. If you're playing the drums on the game and I stop that channel, the bass and guitar would stop as well.

[PCTraitor]

Er... This is not true...

Help! 4-track tape is composed by:
Track 1: Bass, Drums
Track 2: Tamborine, Guitar Overdubs
Track 3: Guitars
Track 4: Double-tracked Vocals

And a stereo mix also exists.


So: that's not the reason, because the guitars in the game are bounced into a single track, you can easily separate frequencies for bass and drums, et voila, the song could be in the game.

And what about the Love 5.1 mix?

please site your source and you can't "easily" seperate bass and drum frequencies.

[leob5622]

Maybe they ran out of time. Or they're saving it for later use as DLC.

[pelemerengue]

My guess is they're saving it for DLC.

Even if it was recorded on a single track, Giles Martin went in and separated the individual instrument elements from two-tracks for many songs using audio forensics software. If that's possible, it's possible to do it with a single track. Easy? No, probably not. But possible.

[dabrry0523]

please site your source and you can't "easily" seperate bass and drum frequencies.

And if your in the Pre-order club we got this update some time ago

"The biggest challenge for us was working with the earlier stuff. We were criticized in Love for using a lot of late stuff. It was easy because it was in 4 track and 8 track, but the material we have for the Cavern Club in the game is 2 track....we’re now at a stage where we don’t have to damage sound.

[Rod_Stixx]

As mentioned, the earlier stuff has been much tougher to work with. Between trying to even out the songs for all four members, balancing the work to get early stuff vs later stuff, wanting to have more great material for DLC/throw in a few curveballs on the disc, etc., there are a number of reasons why it (and many other songs) aren't on the disc.

If we were talking Mr Moonlight, I could see that people might be very concerned about whether the song would ever come out for the game. We're talking about Help!, however. It will be arriving sooner or later.

[AndywinXp]

please site your source and you can't "easily" seperate bass and drum frequencies.

Sure, the source are the Vinyl, the CD, or whatever, or just listen to the separate channels in the surround mix in Love. In the stereo mix the guitars are put in the right, drums and bass are put in the left, in the center we have vocals, tamborine and guitar overdubs. You want some more sources? Ok, so, do a search and listen to the Help! sessions, from take 1 to take 12, they are in full stereo, take 1 to 8 are the backing tracks, 9 to 12 are the vocals overdub attempts. ;)


Maybe they can't "easily" separate them. But for sure is easier than separating piano from guitar.
But you can, if you could not, the game would not exist.


And if your in the Pre-order club we got this update some time ago

"The biggest challenge for us was working with the earlier stuff. We were criticized in Love for using a lot of late stuff. It was easy because it was in 4 track and 8 track, but the material we have for the Cavern Club in the game is 2 track....we’re now at a stage where we don’t have to damage sound.

Aw! Ninja'd.

[autumnmantis]

I've theorized that it has to do with work flow-- since the early songs require more work up front, and they only seem to have one producer/engineer they can trust, it creates a big bottleneck. So Giles did a bunch of later songs quickly, to give hmx material to work on, and now he's got the time to do the laborious early stuff.

That is my hope. There's also a possibility that Help! will have a fabulous, rich DLC with sets from the movie. It could plug into story mode and either follow the story of the movie or, even better, follow behind-the-scenes of making it. You'd have to save the title song for something like that. There are six songs featured in the movie that we don't have yet: Help, The Night Before, You've Got to Hide Your Love Away, Another Girl, You're Gonna Lose That Girl, and I Need You. I'd be okay if these were the only songs we got from the album, except I also need "I've Just Seen a Face".

[Scopitone]

And if your in the Pre-order club we got this update some time ago "The biggest challenge for us was working with the earlier stuff. We were criticized in Love for using a lot of late stuff. It was easy because it was in 4 track and 8 track, but the material we have for the Cavern Club in the game is 2 track....we’re now at a stage where we don’t have to damage sound. Now you can take away layers and really get beneath the music. We've had to do this extensively with this project and it's been laborious and painstaking. It’s important that people interact with the game, even on the earlier years. So by removing vocals from a track, people can hear instruments. If you make a mistake playing the bass on “Twist and Shout”, you'll hear the fact that you're making a mistake on “Twist and Shout”. The Beatles stuff is about 67 percent the band playing guitar, bass, and drums all on one track. If you're playing the drums on the game and I stop that channel, the bass and guitar would stop as well.

There we go.

Help will be out later as a massive DLC pack. Cheers.

[dabrry0523]

but Ticket to Ride was in help at least the movie

[PCTraitor]

Sure, the source are the Vinyl, the CD, or whatever, or just listen to the separate channels in the surround mix in Love. In the stereo mix the guitars are put in the right, drums and bass are put in the left, in the center we have vocals, tamborine and guitar overdubs. You want some more sources? Ok, so, do a search and listen to the Help! sessions, from take 1 to take 12, they are in full stereo, take 1 to 8 are the backing tracks, 9 to 12 are the vocals overdub attempts. ;)


Maybe they can't "easily" separate them. But for sure is easier than separating piano from guitar.
But you can, if you could not, the game would not exist.



Aw! Ninja'd.

That still doesn't prove that they could seperate things enough to be useable in the game. Finding the different frequencies of a bass guitar and the drums is one thing creating another track and making it sound good is another thing.

The Help! recordings sound pretty muddy and while I think they will eventually show up in the game, there is no doubt that they are still working on it because of how it was originally recorded otherwise we'd have more of it in the game. It is definitely not as clean as you act like it was. It sounds like it was recorded on several tracks, but possibly done live all at the same time because there is a lot of bleed from other instruments.

[PCTraitor]

And if your in the Pre-order club we got this update some time ago

"The biggest challenge for us was working with the earlier stuff. We were criticized in Love for using a lot of late stuff. It was easy because it was in 4 track and 8 track, but the material we have for the Cavern Club in the game is 2 track....we’re now at a stage where we don’t have to damage sound.

yeah it's so easy that's why no one has been able to do it until now. He means easy compared to the 2 track stuff.

[AndywinXp]

That still doesn't prove that they could seperate things enough to be useable in the game. Finding the different frequencies of a bass guitar and the drums is one thing creating another track and making it sound good is another thing.

The Help! recordings sound pretty muddy and while I think they will eventually show up in the game, there is no doubt that they are still working on it because of how it was originally recorded otherwise we'd have more of it in the game. It is definitely not as clean as you act like it was. It sounds like it was recorded on several tracks, but possibly done live all at the same time because there is a lot of bleed from other instruments.

And I don't think that the song isn't in the game because of the masters. C'mon, they put Hey Bulldog, and in the master tapes the piano is recorded in the same track as the drums...

Or... what about Lucy in the sky with diamonds? The bass was recorded in the same track as the electric guitar, no bouncing or kind of.

And what about I feel fine? It is recorded as the same way as Help, a track with guitars, a track with drums and bass, a vocal track and the guitar solo track.

Same with Ticket To ride.

[IColinoI]

http://www.beatles.com/hub/love/site/

1. Go to "Listen"
2. Go to "Interview"
3. Click on #29. "And then the song from the film "Help!""

Now you may say, what does this have to do with The Beatles: Rock Band?

Quote from George Martin: "There's not much we can do to Help!, really, the band recorded it as one track"

The band recorded it as one track. They can't seperate the guitar, bass, drums, etc, so if you can't seperate the track, they can't mute the guitar if you miss the note.

If I'm wrong, please feel free to chime in.

Pretty much ALL of the first 2-3 albums worth of songs were recorded on one track. Did you read any of the articles or interviews with Giles? He had that trouble with EVERY early Beatle song.

Help! Isn't on disc because no one would buy the Help! album if Help! is already on disc, IMO.

[theINC]

I really doubt that Help! was recorded as one track - it's mixed in stereo with drums to the left so it must be multi-tracked.

I think they're just trying to make a must-have DLC purchase - a lot of people get these kinds of games and never get extra content for them. By keeping a really popular Beatles track from the disc content, more of the techno-fearing crowd will have a look at the DLC for this game.

[autumnmantis]

Well, they weren't afraid of including every single hit from Abbey Road and Sgt. Pepper's, and the biggest ones from Rubber Soul. (A Day In the Life is great, but it's not one of those iconic songs that everyone knows).

[HeadHunter67]

The band recorded it as one track. They can't seperate the guitar, bass, drums, etc, so if you can't seperate the track, they can't mute the guitar if you miss the note.

A year ago, that's basically what everyone said about ALL Beatles songs. A year ago, you'd have used this general argument to explain how TB:RB itself would be impossible. Yet, here we are.

The Internet is historically comprised of people who vocally announce all the things developers "Can't!" do, right up until they are done.

So, when Help! is released, will those who said "It can't be done!" recant, or will they quietly fade away? History has the answer to that one too. :)

[chrth_rb]

In Giles We Trust