TOOL v. DREAM THEATER

[Tokarev449]

Who will be victorious? :confused:

YOU DECIDE.... (poll expires in 10,000 days; just kidding - 30 days ;))

Post why you think the band you chose is better, please....

[Blazez]

DT, kthxbye

[MrFruitLord]

And here I was, thinking you'd quit making pointless threads like this. This bring up the question though, what do Dream Theater and Tool have to do with each other?

[Tank9088]

Both overrated,IMO.

[Fizzeler]

And here I was, thinking you'd quit making pointless threads like this. This bring up the question though, what do Dream Theater and Tool have to do with each other?

Overrated popular Prog. with annoying fanbases

[xTerp]

What's with all the versus threads?

And I guess I'll go Dream Theater since I find Tool very boring.

[MrFruitLord]

Overrated popular Prog. with annoying fanbases

I've always thought of Tool more as Art...

[afterstasis]

i strongly dislike both, but would rather be punished with dream theater than tool.

[Tank9088]

Only Tool song I like is Sober.

[Tokarev449]

And here I was, thinking you'd quit making pointless threads like this.

Um....last time I checked, half the threads in the Rock Band Forums don't have a point (e.g. the Randomly Crap Out Your Opinions Thread). If you're looking for a meaning here, you've come to the wrong place. This thread is a place for discussion/debate/argument. And please, I've heard quite enough of haters' complaints about the threads I submit. :)

[MrFruitLord]

I like more Tool (not that much) than Dream Theater, so I went with Tool. Tool amazingly enough has an even more annoying fanbase than Dream Theater.

[MalahkAngel]

I have to go with DT. I love Tool, but they're songs tend to drone on like a dirge at times. I have to say that Justin Chancellor knows how to make a catchy bassline though.

[clashcityrocker10]

I really dislike both, but I prefer Tool slightly more.

[Mystlyfe77]

STOP MAKING USELESS POLLS. Just because other people make them too, doesn't make it okay. These are pointless, ill conceived, and trivial. They accomplish nothing, compared loosely defined terms, and really have no way of further musical debate or intrigue.
If you wanted to make a poll, at least pick bands that are mildly comparable. Sure both bands are often called "prog metal," but their styles vary wildly from one another and the two bands have little in common. If you were going to compare Dream Theater to bands like Fates Warning, Blotted Science, Symphony X, Circus Maximus, or Liquid Tension Experiment it would be at least close.

Please, please, PLEASE stop making these stupid polls.

And, for the record, I voted Tool because Dream Theater is a pile of garbage.

[Fizzeler]

despite although the bad stuff I say about Dream Theater and their covers I have to give it to them their 90s material is just :)

[bubblegumpop]

DT hands down.

[Tank9088]

I would have much preferred a Symphony X vs. Circus Maximus thread, that would have made me think. Also, my two favorite prog metal groups.

[Tokarev449]

STOP MAKING USELESS POLLS. Just because other people make them too, doesn't make it okay. These are pointless, ill conceived, and trivial. They accomplish nothing, compared loosely defined terms, and really have no way of further musical debate or intrigue.
If you wanted to make a poll, at least pick bands that are mildly comparable. Sure both bands are often called "prog metal," but their styles vary wildly from one another and the two bands have little in common. If you were going to compare Dream Theater to bands like Fates Warning, Blotted Science, Symphony X, Circus Maximus, or Liquid Tension Experiment it would be at least close.

Please, please, PLEASE stop making these stupid polls.

And, for the record, I voted Tool because Dream Theater is a pile of garbage.

Geez, relax...
Why do keep posting these anyway? They're just as annoying...

[Mystlyfe77]

Geez, relax...
Why do keep posting these anyway? They're just as annoying...

Because you keep posting these polls. They're hardly imaginative, hardly spark any real discussion, and often completely wrong in their labeling. Sure, these posts are annoying to you, but your polls are annoying to everyone else who uses the HoR section for legitimate discussion and discovery of music.

[MrFruitLord]

Geez, relax...
Why do keep posting these anyway? They're just as annoying...

I find these polls more annoying.

[franticfish]

While I agree that these threads are incredibly annoying I don't think that anyone should tell someone what and what not to post whether its threads or posts, it doesn't mean anything whether your a "regular" or whatever, it is at the end of the day a free forum. The proper way to go about getting rid of these threads would be to simply not post in them and let them fade into obscurity.

[killer_roach]

I'd say DT, but Tool are masters of what they do as well. I just prefer DT's musical excess to Tool's highly stylized creepy sound, but only barely.

[neckermanncj]

neither

[Mega-Tallica]

Never been a fan of Tool, I'd take DT because I just like their music better.

[Nuff_Said]

never really got heavy in to either band, but i definitely prefer what i've heard from TOOL over Dream Theater. DT just gets a little too "powerful" for me at times.

[1billion]

neitherthen why post?

[Mega-Tallica]

then why post?

To get his opinion across:confused:

[1billion]

To get his opinion across:confused:but the poll is tool or dt not tool dt or neither.

[Mystlyfe77]

but the poll is tool or dt not tool dt or neither.

Doesn't mean that other opinions aren't valid in the discussion.

[Mega-Tallica]

but the poll is tool or dt not tool dt or neither.

Like I said, he got his point across;)

[Nuff_Said]

but the poll is tool or dt not tool dt or neither.

so he should have no opinion on the matter :rolleyes: my aren't you open-minded and accepting.

[bradylicious9]

don't love either, but tool is definitely better, imo.

[Evilbottom]

OP needs to stop making these polls.

But on topic, Dream Theater. To be fair, the only Tool I've heard is that off of GH:WT, but I hated all those songs. Far too drone-y and long. Plus even if i had heard more Tool, chances are I would still vote DT. I doubt they have anything to top Images and Words or Awake.

[Soror_YZBL]

tool for being able to write- I dunno- actual songs.

[WhiffleBallTony]

I prefer Tool. Dream Theater has lots of stuff that I really really like, but then they've got those ballads and other stuff that I strongly dislike. Tool is consistently awesome to me.

[1billion]

so he should have no opinion on the matter :rolleyes: my aren't you open-minded and accepting.
ok so hes free to have an opinion(Im not a nazi :rolleyes:), thats cool, you dont have to like either of them them. But I wouldnt go and post on a thread I had no interest in. I for one cant listen to Bob Dylan, I think hes awful but how is it constructive for me to go into a Bob Dylan thread and say, his music is bad. I mean I can think that but it really just contributes nothing to a topic.

[1billion]

but anyway I prefer DT, although Tool is great.

[Nuff_Said]

ok so hes free to have an opinion(Im not a nazi :rolleyes:), thats cool, you dont have to like either of them them. But I wouldnt go and post on a thread I had no interest in. I for one cant listen to Bob Dylan, I think hes awful but how is it constructive for me to go into a Bob Dylan thread and say, his music is bad. I mean I can think that but it really just contributes nothing to a topic.

How do you expect to learn anything about anything when you won't even approach something new and try to learn why you don't like it as opposed to generalized blanket statements like "his music is bad"?

Debating and discussing wide arrays of topics with people of different school's of thinking is the best way to become a more well-informed person.

[1billion]

How do you expect to learn anything about anything when you won't even approach something new and try to learn why you don't like it as opposed to generalized blanket statements like "his music is bad"?

Debating and discussing wide arrays of topics with people of different school's of thinking is the best way to become a more well-informed person.

His statement of neither really opened my eyes :D. And why I generally agree with you, it is music lol... I mean besides maybe missing out on a few good artists I'l live. I think its much worse to have uninformed people in other things like economics politics etc. I mean most people who voted for Obama probabley dont know who John Meynard Keynes or Keynesianism is. But I digress

Anyway I think you intrepreted my statement wrong. I didnt say his taste in music is bad. I personally could live without the shins, and think ok computor is severely overated, although its pretty good. What I'm trying to say is going into a thread of which you dont like the content of what people are talking about. I chose Bob Dylan because he is popular, and I don't like him.

The end all be all is music is subjective. If someone was having a debate over say Monetarist economics vs Austrian Economics I could burst it and say Keynesiasm is better because of XYZ. But his post contributed nothing to the topic at all except making him in my eyes seem like a pompous jerk who thinks his opinion matters in a purely subjective field.

[Mystlyfe77]

His statement of neither really opened my eyes :D. And why I generally agree with you, it is music lol... I mean besides maybe missing out on a few good artists I'l live. I think its much worse to have uninformed people in other things like economics politics etc. I mean most people who voted for Obama probabley dont know who John Meynard Keynes or Keynesianism is. But I digress

Okay, what does economic theory have to do even remotely with this thread?



Anyway I think you intrepreted my statement wrong. I didnt say his taste in music is bad. I personally could live without the shins, and think ok computor is severely overated, although its pretty good. What I'm trying to say is going into a thread of which you dont like the content of what people are talking about. I chose Bob Dylan because he is popular, and I don't like him.

The end all be all is music is subjective. If someone was having a debate over say Monetarist economics vs Austrian Economics I could burst it and say Keynesiasm is better because of XYZ. But his post contributed nothing to the topic at all except making him in my eyes seem like a pompous jerk who thinks his opinion matters in a purely subjective field.

He's not attacking the music, he's stating his opinion. Even if it isn't the most gracious or productive of posts, he committed no crime. Live with it.

[1billion]

Okay, what does economic theory have to do even remotely with this thread?



He's not attacking the music, he's stating his opinion. Even if it isn't the most gracious or productive of posts, he committed no crime. Live with it.

Something random I picked that isnt a subjective consensus, but probabley a poor example.

I agree with you, why are people misintrepreting what I am saying.

[MrFruitLord]

His statement of neither really opened my eyes :D. And why I generally agree with you, it is music lol... I mean besides maybe missing out on a few good artists I'l live. I think its much worse to have uninformed people in other things like economics politics etc. I mean most people who voted for Obama probabley dont know who John Meynard Keynes or Keynesianism is. But I digress

Anyway I think you intrepreted my statement wrong. I didnt say his taste in music is bad. I personally could live without the shins, and think ok computor is severely overated, although its pretty good. What I'm trying to say is going into a thread of which you dont like the content of what people are talking about. I chose Bob Dylan because he is popular, and I don't like him.

The end all be all is music is subjective. If someone was having a debate over say Monetarist economics vs Austrian Economics I could burst it and say Keynesiasm is better because of XYZ. But his post contributed nothing to the topic at all except making him in my eyes seem like a pompous jerk who thinks his opinion matters in a purely subjective field.

Wait, what? What does Obama have to do with this? (who I support, and know Keynes is.)

[Nuff_Said]

Wait, what? What does Obama have to do with this? (who I support, and know Keynes is.)

don't even go there. Let's just keep this about TOOL vs Dream Theater.

The only song i really enjoy from TOOL is Die Eier von Satan

[neckermanncj]

there was no other/neither option so i made a post. everyone calm down.

[1billion]

Wait, what? What does Obama have to do with this? (who I support, and know Keynes is.)
lol I was just kinda throwing that out there, I just happen to know alot of people who are Obama supporters who dont know who Keynes is (My moms is in the Democratic Town Committee). I mean Paul Krugman supported Obama even though they he's a little more spend happy than Obama, but anyway this is about music.

In no way is my accusation a statement that applies to everyone.

[1billion]

don't even go there. Let's just keep this about TOOL vs Dream Theater.

The only song i really enjoy from TOOL is Die Eier von Satan
Yea I'm just gonna stop now lol.:cool:

[MrFruitLord]

don't even go there. Let's just keep this about TOOL vs Dream Theater.

Just saying he was wrong in his generalization. Both are overrated, but I think Adam Jones is really overrated. The fact that he's made top 100 guitarist lists is disgusting.

[1billion]

Just saying he was wrong in his generalization. Both are overrated, but I think Adam Jones is really overrated. The fact that he's made top 100 guitarist lists is disgusting.
On lists of technical skill or of just overall cool sounding riffs? If you have any links would be appreciated.

[MrFruitLord]

On lists of technical skill or of just overall cool sounding riffs? If you have any links would be appreciated.

He's was on the Rolling Stone one.

[BonyGrunt]

Why must you pick two of THE most talented bands (as far as playing goes) of all time... I'll break it down by band members to make my decision :D


Adam Jones VS John Petrucci

Adam Jones is very good, but he isn't even on my list of top guitarists... Petrucci is just a legend. No contest. Without a doubt one of the most skilled guitarists of all time. And Adam Jones has no stage presence... :(

Side note: I hate when people say Petrucci has no emotion in his playing... Obviously he is a technical guitarists, but you naysayers need to listen to Octavarium, Take The Time, and of their slow songs, and their cover of Time :).


Justin Chancellor VS John Myung

I've watched many tutorial/tip videos by Myung and I highly appreciate his style, but Chancellor wins, hands down. After Les Claypool, I personally rank his bass playing the highest on my list of most unique, distinctive, recognizable styles. I am willing to bet that everyone familiar with Tool, even just their "radio" songs, originally thought one of his strange bass riffs/solos, like in Stinkfist or Vicarious (among others), was guitar the first listen...


Danny Carey VS Mike Portnoy

This was the hard one. both these drummers frequently appear on Top 10 lists and are highly recognized for perceptible playing. I have to give it to Portnoy, though. No explanation - it was hard enough to choose anyway. I personally see him as slightly more skilled, only behind Neil Peart.


Maynard James Keenan VS James LaBrie

LaBrie is just good - plain and simple. He can hit high notes. He can "go metal." He can... sing. He's good, but doesn't compare to Maynard's impeccable range. He is highly praised for one reason - because of his flawless singing. Maynard can hit high notes. He can also hit low notes. He can scream, too. He can sing softly, and still precisely control his range to whichever possible octave he can usually reach, and stay that way. And he always sounds perfect live, too. He obviously isn't the best rock vocalist in the world, but he sure isn't holding his band back like LaBrie is, in my opinion. Again, LaBrie isn't bad at all, but he's easily the worst in the band.


Jordan Rudess
Automatically wins :-P


Overall, I wil give it to Dream Theater. I think as a band, they have more talent overall, but Tool is damn close. I respect Tool's writing more, as I absolutely love "art" music, but then again, I definitely like my favorite Dream Theater albums more than my favorite Tool albums. Either way, both of these bands win in the end. Two of the maybe five bands that I actually like EVERY song from :D...

EDIT: ****, I wrote a lot :(

[1billion]

He's was on the Rolling Stone one. O o I didn't see him on there, I'l have to check again. I do think he has good riffs, but there are far better guitarists. I do like both Carey and Portnoy though. And Petrucci is good aswell.

[Mystlyfe77]

Why must you pick two of THE most talented bands ever... I'll break it down by members to make my decision :D
[blatant uninformed fanboyism removed to save space]

You're kidding, right?

[1billion]

You're kidding, right?
umm:confused:

[MrFruitLord]

For me it's All the members of Tool>Members of Dream Theater.

[Evilbottom]

Why must you pick two of THE most talented bands of all time.


Ok, both bands are pretty good and talented sure. But of all time? Are you seriously suggesting that these bands have nearly as much talent as bands such as... in fact, I don't think I even need to make a list. They don't even compare to a hell of a lot of bands. They are no way close to being the most talented bands of all time. I mean, seriously?

[Alright_Computer]

tool for being able to write- I dunno- actual songs.


I prefer Tool. Dream Theater has lots of stuff that I really really like, but then they've got those ballads and other stuff that I strongly dislike. Tool is consistently awesome to me.

These people have it completely right.

[killer_roach]

These people have it completely right.

Whatever you say.

I personally enjoy the fact that Dream Theater does those curveball ballads... granted, it's an implicit admission that their normal style is a bit too byzantine, but it does show range across the band, whereas Tool's range largely comes from Maynard.

Different styles, suiting different tastes. Both have their merits, and both have their backers. That being said, one could only imagine Maynard fronting DT... although I would assume the creative clashes between him and Portnoy would be borderline epic.

[BonyGrunt]

Ok, both bands are pretty good and talented sure. But of all time? Are you seriously suggesting that these bands have nearly as much talent as bands such as... in fact, I don't think I even need to make a list. They don't even compare to a hell of a lot of bands. They are no way close to being the most talented bands of all time. I mean, seriously?

I'm not bashing you guys in anyway, but I knew this was going to happen lol... I'm not talking about song-writing, nor live performances, nor energy, nor popular songs, nor anything you think I am. Yes, in that case, Zep, Rush (<-- which are up at the top of my "talent" list, also), The Who, Maiden, etc. are definitely better, in a different sense - your sense. My point is bands like Tool and DT have more "skill" in playing. Of course, this isn't always the case. Example: Peart and Moon are more skilled drummers, and write better material. But I think guitarists like Petrucci and Joe Satriani are "more skilled" than legends like Jimmy Page and Roger Daltrey, but they write better, more memorable music. Remember, I'm talking about playing skill, not writing. And this is all my opinion, anyway... :D

[Mystlyfe77]

I'm not bashing you guys in anyway, but I knew this was going to happen lol... I'm not talking about song-writing, nor live performances, nor energy, nor popular songs, nor anything you think I am. Yes, in that case, Zep, Rush (<-- which are up at the top of my "talent" list, also), The Who, Maiden, etc. are definitely better, in a different sense - your sense. My point is bands like Tool and DT have more "skill" in playing. Of course, this isn't always the case. Example: Peart and Moon are more skilled drummers, and write better material. But I think guitarists like Petrucci and Joe Satriani are "more skilled" than legends like Jimmy Page and Roger Daltrey, but they write better, more memorable music. Remember, I'm talking about playing skill, not writing. And this is all my opinion, anyway... :D

Except there are countless guitarists, many of whom aren't legends, who are more skilled than the guitarists in Tool and Dream Theater. The same can be said for every other instrument too.

[killer_roach]

Even still, one must also appreciate the wholly disparate efforts of both bands to bring classical and jazz musical devices into a modern rock and metal framework. They have largely similar influences, yet have completely different musical product to show for it, showcasing the strengths of their respective members.

That's no small accomplishment.

[Mystlyfe77]

Even still, one must also appreciate the wholly disparate efforts of both bands to bring classical and jazz musical devices into a modern rock and metal framework. They have largely similar influences, yet have completely different musical product to show for it, showcasing the strengths of their respective members.

That's no small accomplishment.

That's a completely different discussion from being the most "talented" or the most "skilled," though.

[BonyGrunt]

Except there are countless guitarists, many of whom aren't legends, who are more skilled than the guitarists in Tool and Dream Theater. The same can be said for every other instrument too.

Of course, but many of those artists are unknown or are solo acts, which don't really qualify for this discussion anyway. When I rank drummers like Portnoy and Peart and bassists like Claypool and Chancellor at the top, remember that we only know a microscopic portion of all the musicians in this world. I'm sure there are hundreds of better, undiscovered players. Unfortunately, they may never break out, either. I am just personally ranking these rock musicians among the thousand or so bands I know of, in my opinion. If you guys can show be better musicians (as long as theyre in actual bands), please do! I love discovering raw talent!!! And honestly, I'm sure between all of us, there's plenty to share. But make a new thread, though, if there isn't one already ;)

[Fizzeler]

Why must you pick two of THE most talented bands of all time... I'll break it down by band members to make my decision :D

No they are just two of the most popular Prog. bands currently Fates Warning is much more talented than both groups IMO


Adam Jones VS John Petrucci

Adam Jones is very good, but he isn't even on my list of top guitarists... Petrucci is just a legend. No contest. Without a doubt one of the most skilled guitarists of all time. And Adam Jones has no stage presence... :(

Side note: I hate when people say Petrucci has no emotion in his playing... Obviously he is a technical guitarists, but you naysayers need to listen to Octavarium, Take The Time, and of their slow songs, and their cover of Time :).

Petrucci is very overrated he may be a good guitarist, but DT fans make him seem much better than he actually is while Tool I prefer the bass over the guitar


Justin Chancellor VS John Myung

I've watched many tutorial/tip videos by Myung and I highly appreciate his style, but Chancellor wins, hands down. After Les Claypool, I personally rank his bass playing the highest on my list of most unique, distinctive, recognizable styles. I am willing to bet that everyone familiar with Tool, even just their "radio" songs, originally thought one of his strange bass riffs/solos, like in Stinkfist or Vicarious (among others), was guitar the first listen...

for me this one would be very hard I really enjoy both, but prefer Tool's bass over DT's so I agree with you


Danny Carey VS Mike Portnoy

This was the hard one. both these drummers frequently appear on Top 10 lists and are highly recognized for perceptible playing. I have to give it to Portnoy, though. No explanation - it was hard enough to choose anyway. I personally see him as slightly more skilled, only behind Neil Peart.

Portnoy is also very overrated and his growls make me :(, but his other projects are good while I enjoy Carey, but Portnoy is better


Maynard James Keenan VS James LaBrie

LaBrie is just good - plain and simple. He can hit high notes. He can "go metal." He can... sing. He's good, but doesn't compare to Maynard's impeccable range. He is highly praised for one reason - because of his flawless singing. Maynard can hit high notes. He can also hit low notes. He can scream, too. He can sing softly, and still precisely control his range to whichever possible octave he can usually reach, and stay that way. And he always sounds perfect live, too. He obviously isn't the best rock vocalist in the world, but he sure isn't holding his band back like LaBrie is, in my opinion. Again, LaBrie isn't bad at all, but he's easily the worst in the band.

funny I think LaBrie can't sing anymore he was good in the 90s, but now :(


Jordan Rudess
Automatically wins :-P

Moore is much better than Rudess IMO


Overall, I wil give it to Dream Theater. I think as a band, they have more talent overall, but Tool is damn close. I respect Tool's writing more, as I absolutely love "art" music, but then again, I definitely like my favorite Dream Theater albums more than my favorite Tool albums. Either way, both of these bands win in the end. Two of the maybe five bands that I actually like EVERY song from :D...


you like DT's cover of MOP you truly are fan then and I applaud you for it considering I can barely stomach those covers

[CommonCriminal]

Both suck. But DT's fans aren't as annoying. So, they win.

[killer_roach]

you like DT's cover of MOP you truly are fan then and I applaud you for it considering I can barely stomach those covers

The bootleg covers are pretty meh... Number of the Beast was one of the better ones, and Dark Side of the Moon was passable. Master of Puppets and Made In Japan? Not so much.

The covers on BC&SL are largely excellent, although Lark's Tongues In Aspic Pt. 2 is a bit of an odd choice considering the others.

But I agree completely on LaBrie. His voice has nearly reached a breaking point... I'm hoping that BC&SL was his last studio album with the band.

[Fizzeler]

Of course, but many of those artists are unknown or are solo acts, which don't really qualify for this discussion anyway. When I rank drummers like Portnoy and Peart and bassists like Claypool and Chancellor at the top, remember that we only know a microscopic portion of all the musicians in this world. I'm sure there are hundreds of better, undiscovered players. Unfortunately, they may never break out, either. I am just personally ranking these rock musicians among the thousand or so bands I know of, in my opinion. If you guys can show be better musicians (as long as theyre in actual bands), please do! I love discovering raw talent!!! And honestly, I'm sure between all of us, there's plenty to share. But make a new thread, though, if there isn't one already ;)

we have a musical recs thread for that and check out Fates Warning because Mark Zonder is a much better drummer than Portnoy same for Alder as a vocalist and Matheos as a guitarist and they had Moore guest on a couple albums of theirs as well

[BonyGrunt]

Petrucci is very overrated he may be a good guitarist, but DT fans make him seem much better than he actually is while Tool I prefer the bass over the guitar[/QUOTE]

Yeah, me too :D


funny I think LaBrie can't sing anymore he was good in the 90s, but now :(

I still like him, but I agree with you, he performed MUCH better then.


Moore is much better than Rudess IMO

I like them all about the same, but I was just listing their current keyboardist just to express the band today.



you like DT's cover of MOP you truly are fan then and I applaud you for it considering I can barely stomach those covers

Haha, the Metallica ones are okay, but their Pink Floyd covers blow them away, along with Highway Star. Watch them on YouTube - they're high quality :D

[Hungryfreak]

Of course, but many of those artists are unknown or are solo acts, which don't really qualify for this discussion anyway. When I rank drummers like Portnoy and Peart and bassists like Claypool and Chancellor at the top, remember that we only know a microscopic portion of all the musicians in this world. I'm sure there are hundreds of better, undiscovered players. Unfortunately, they may never break out, either. I am just personally ranking these rock musicians among the thousand or so bands I know of, in my opinion. If you guys can show be better musicians (as long as theyre in actual bands), please do! I love discovering raw talent!!! And honestly, I'm sure between all of us, there's plenty to share. But make a new thread, though, if there isn't one already ;)

None of us were even thinking about über-hyped bands like Rush or Zep, nor über-obscure bands. You can find pretty well-known bands out there that are much more skilled. The tampa death trinity dwarfs either of the bands in this thread in terms of both skill and songwriting. You may or may not enjoy it as much, but the musicians are certainly more proficient.

Atheist - "Mother Man" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utqWrkVEQvI)
Cynic - "Celestial Voyage" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLfvvvclKoI)
Death - "Overactive Imagination" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYy2bki-q9E)

[Fizzeler]

Death - "Overactive Imagination" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYy2bki-q9E)

are you secretly reading my mind I listened to that song like 30 minutes ago :D

[BonyGrunt]

we have a musical recs thread for that and check out Fates Warning because Mark Zonder is a much better drummer than Portnoy same for Alder as a vocalist and Matheos as a guitarist and they had Moore guest on a couple albums of theirs as well

Will do :D

[Mystlyfe77]

Of course, but many of those artists are unknown or are solo acts, which don't really qualify for this discussion anyway. When I rank drummers like Portnoy and Peart and bassists like Claypool and Chancellor at the top, remember that we only know a microscopic portion of all the musicians in this world. I'm sure there are hundreds of better, undiscovered players. Unfortunately, they may never break out, either. I am just personally ranking these rock musicians among the thousand or so bands I know of, in my opinion. If you guys can show be better musicians (as long as theyre in actual bands), please do! I love discovering raw talent!!! But make a new thread, though, if there isn't one already ;)

I'm not making a separate thread for that. Let's start with guitarists.

Chris Broderick (Megadeth/touring-Nevermore/ex-Jag Panzer):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xohcxxt6oHo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSchoITeht0&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsYfLjsHBDE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXUpEQpiSLA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkpZ645ztl0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jBJUUogVyU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di9UXIHUH84&feature=related

Jeff Loomis (Nevermore/solo):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvfg0iLnzsw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXf-kfox7GY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfJ3_fsVPRk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXW5ryaaYm4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgYpb6Kcf60&feature=related

Michael Romeo (Symphony X):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG2804ggsI0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF5ra8N1ndw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lyjpd__TxQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lyjpd__TxQ&feature=related

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

[Hungryfreak]

are you secretly reading my mind I listened to that song like 30 minutes ago :D

There's no need to read anyone's minds. The song's just so awesome that you shouldn't not be listening to it :).

[BonyGrunt]

None of us were even thinking about über-hyped bands like Rush or Zep, nor über-obscure bands. You can find pretty well-known bands out there that are much more skilled. The tampa death trinity dwarfs either of the bands in this thread in terms of both skill and songwriting. You may or may not enjoy it as much, but the musicians are certainly more proficient.

Atheist - "Mother Man" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utqWrkVEQvI)
Cynic - "Celestial Voyage" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLfvvvclKoI)
Death - "Overactive Imagination" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYy2bki-q9E)

I do like these bands, but I still find DT and Tool just a little more talented. I do love Death/Thrash Metal though, and it's nice to know someone else likes Atheist :D

Since we're all recommending bands, I'm going to recommend Meshuggah, a small, but rising Swedish melodic death metal / post-thrash band who have been together for the last 20 years for skill, experimentation, and complexity.

Future Breed Machine - Meshuggah (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOd-T58qHLA) (musically better)
Bleed - Meshuggah (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc98u-eGzlc) (skillfully better)

[Mystlyfe77]

Meshuggah (melodic death metal)

....what?

Meshuggah is about as far from melodic as you can possibly get. I could see you calling them death metal (though I wouldn't agree), but melodeath? They have virtually NOTHING in common with melodeath.

[BonyGrunt]

I'm not making a separate thread for that. Let's start with guitarists.

Chris Broderick (Megadeth/touring-Nevermore/ex-Jag Panzer):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xohcxxt6oHo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSchoITeht0&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsYfLjsHBDE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXUpEQpiSLA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkpZ645ztl0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jBJUUogVyU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di9UXIHUH84&feature=related

Jeff Loomis (Nevermore/solo):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvfg0iLnzsw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXf-kfox7GY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfJ3_fsVPRk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXW5ryaaYm4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgYpb6Kcf60&feature=related

Michael Romeo (Symphony X):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG2804ggsI0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF5ra8N1ndw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lyjpd__TxQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lyjpd__TxQ&feature=related

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Semi-agree with all of them, and I rank Broderick higher :D

[Fizzeler]

I'm not making a separate thread for that. Let's start with guitarists.


fine then I will do vocalists :p

Ray Alder (Fates Warning, Redemption):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogyYGKUjFuY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKKENOHmXWc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odfsTxDuos8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuuMOsETU80

Simone Simmons (Epica):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGgk5V8QKns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdBKnsDkDGs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAlRf9qf9d0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B5TA5oerk8

Geoff Tate (Queensryche):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpBY9Odeiu8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQeitJiBDlA&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg7ZRZyQJ5U&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY_zAR71AqA&feature=channel

like Myst said this is only the tip of the iceberg

[BonyGrunt]

....what?

Meshuggah is about as far from melodic as you can possibly get. I could see you calling them death metal (though I wouldn't agree), but melodeath? They have virtually NOTHING in common with melodeath.

Wow, really? they are heavier and more unique than most melodeath bands, but between me and several friends familiar with them, we know them as melodeath. Granted, they do have a progressive, experimental sound unlike most melodeath bands, I still classify them as that as far as other genres go. It seems to fit better imo.

[Hungryfreak]

I do like these bands, but I still find DT and Tool just a little more talented. I do love Death/Thrash Metal though, and it's nice to know someone else likes Atheist :D

You need to listen to the instrumentation a bit closely, then. It's much more complex than anything I've seen come out of Tool or Dream Theater on every instrument.

Since you know Atheist, if you look at the compositions of their music, it includes quite a bit of jazz/latin influence (most apparent on Elements), which makes for much more interesting and complex music.

[BonyGrunt]

You need to listen to the instrumentation a bit closely, then. It's much more complex than anything I've seen come out of Tool or Dream Theater on every instrument.

Since you know Atheist, if you look at the compositions of their music, it includes quite a bit of jazz/latin influence (most apparent on Elements), which makes for much more interesting and complex music.

Oh, I'm not saying they're not more complex, because I'd have to at least somewhat agree with you - and that's why I like Atheist so much, as not many metal bands have as innovative influences as genres such as those.

[Mystlyfe77]

Wow, really? they are heavier and more unique than most melodeath bands, but between me and several friends familiar with them, we know them as melodeath. Granted, they do have a progressive, experimental sound unlike most melodeath bands, I still classify them as that as far as other genres go. It seems to fit better imo.

Ummm, question. Where's the melody?
Even death metal is a stretch.

I had a rant (http://www.rockband.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2850148&postcount=1735) a week-ish ago about what it means to be melodic death metal. Meshuggah is even further from that than the bands that triggered my rant (namely the Black Dahlia Murder). Meshuggah bears none of the characteristics of melodeath.

And no credible metal website I know of says their melodeath, either.
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=21
http://www.metalstorm.ee/bands/band.php?band_id=175&bandname=Meshuggah
http://v2.metalreviews.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=33

Hell, even the semi-credible/uncredible ones don't call them that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meshuggah
http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll
http://www.metalreview.com/Reviews/4327/Meshuggah-Obzen.aspx

[BonyGrunt]

Ummm, question. Where's the melody?
Even death metal is a stretch.

I had a rant (http://www.rockband.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2850148&postcount=1735) a week-ish ago about what it means to be melodic death metal. Meshuggah is even further from that than the bands that triggered my rant (namely the Black Dahlia Murder). Meshuggah bears none of the characteristics of melodeath.

And no credible metal website I know of says their melodeath, either.
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=21
http://www.metalstorm.ee/bands/band.php?band_id=175&bandname=Meshuggah
http://v2.metalreviews.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=33

Hell, even the semi-credible/uncredible ones don't call them that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meshuggah
http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll
http://www.metalreview.com/Reviews/4327/Meshuggah-Obzen.aspx

I agree, they certainly don't have the rhythm for it, but they seem at a similar pace to me than most melodeath bands. I guess I loosely classify bands under certain genres, lol... Doesn't matter anyway, in all honesty, Meshuggah is their own genre :D

[KingProgdor]

I'm not going to read this whole thread, but is it safe to assume that somewhere within these nine pages there can be found a stereotypical Tool fan reveling in his pseudo-intellectualism?

[1billion]

I'm not going to read this whole thread, but is it safe to assume that somewhere within these nine pages there can be found a stereotypical Tool fan reveling in his pseudo-intellectualism?

:D

[KingProgdor]

:D

Thought so.

[1billion]

Thought so.
I was lol'in at your comment :)

[Jerome85]

tool by far

[seriousbusson]

Both are overrated, but Dream Theater are marginally better as they don't rewrite the same song again and again and call it a single.

But, then again, someone needs to pick up the pace between new AC/DC, right?

[MrFruitLord]

Both ate overrated, but Dream Theater are marginally better as they don't rewrite the same song again and again and call it a single.

When exactly did Tool do this?

[Mystlyfe77]

When exactly did Tool do this?

Heh, I actually misread and thought he was talking about Dream Theater at first, which made a lot more sense than saying Tool did it.

[MrFruitLord]

Heh, I actually misread and thought he was talking about Dream Theater at first, which made a lot more sense than saying Tool did it.

I really have no clue why he said that.

[BonyGrunt]

Both ate overrated, but Dream Theater are marginally better as they don't rewrite the same song again and again and call it a single.

Sorry, you must be getting them confused with Nickleback...

[WhiffleBallTony]

Both ate overrated

Who are you to criticize their diets?

[40FootWolf]

Tool, by a hilariously large margin.

[macamatic]

Tool, though I love Dream Theater. Scenes From a Memory will never be as good as Lateralus in my book. Also LOL at re-recording the same song and calling it a single. That must be a troll, there's no way anybody is stupid enough to think that Tool would care about singles to that extent (not to mention the level of complexity in the arrangements of their songs).

Myst: In response to your rant (I didn't feel like posting again), are you really saying Hidden Hands of a Sadist Nation is melodic metalcore?

[I_Use_Shamwows]

I picked Tool.

Sure, the pretentious fanbase......like a song that they made, Rosetta Stoned, is just basically Maynard tripping on a cactus, and people call it genius.

Some of Tool's work is well thought out, their earlier albums, and even their most recent, 10,000 days, has some pretty good lyrics, The Pot, Vicarious....

But DT's lyrics are a joke, and it just seems really generic to me.

The only other thing I can say is, other than fans....what do these guys have in common....?

[killer_roach]

Tool, though I love Dream Theater. Scenes From a Memory will never be as good as Lateralus in my book.

Although I still overall prefer DT, I agree with this. Lateralus was sheer genius, and by far Tool's best album. Hands down.

[idiotec]

DT is winning? How sad. Terrible singer, boring lyrics and music that is painfully obvious to be made by musicians who cannot write a song. But hey, they do have technical skill at their instruments.

Tool.

[overcookedbacon]

Hate 'em both.

I can tolerate Dream Theater for longer though, so I guess I'll vote for them.

[killer_roach]

DT is winning? How sad. Terrible singer, boring lyrics and music that is painfully obvious to be made by musicians who cannot write a song. But hey, they do have technical skill at their instruments.

I think the same argument could be made the other way if one was to be as impartial as possible, the only difference being that Maynard can sing a song. :)

[Soror_YZBL]

Both ate overrated, but Dream Theater are marginally better as they don't rewrite the same song again and again and call it a single.

First, DT would have to actually write a song. I don't think they've reached that point yet.

[Fragory123]

I prefer Tool.

[DrewLee865]

Stupid poll. I voted Tool because I don't like wankery.

[KingProgdor]

I voted Tool because I don't like wankery.

:rolleyes:

[DrewLee865]

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[KingProgdor]

:rolleyes:

Well what can I say? It was a pretty lame generalization on your part, considering not all of Dream Theater's material is 'wankery.'

You can blame Jordan Rudess for the existence of that.

[WhiffleBallTony]

:rolleyes:

;)

[JukeBoxHero]

I like both bands, but I'll go with Tool because I generally like their rhythm section more.(The bassist in me almost always side with the better rhythm section for me).

[gmarsh]

Meh, Don't care for either of them.

[DrewLee865]

Well what can I say? It was a pretty lame generalization on your part, considering not all of Dream Theater's material is 'wankery.'

You can blame Jordan Rudess for the existence of that.First couple albums were pretty good. Rest I think are crap. Tool isn't that great either.

[KingProgdor]

First couple albums were pretty good. Rest I think are crap. Tool isn't that great either.

Anything from '88 to '01 is either good or great. Only after SDOIT did they really go downhill.

[killer_roach]

Anything from '88 to '01 is either good or great. Only after SDOIT did they really go downhill.

That's a bit of a stretch. I personally would have a hard time calling it "going downhill" when two of my three favorite DT albums are two of the three most recent. Yes, Train of Thought was pretty bad, and Systematic Chaos was frustratingly inconsistent, but there's no real trend developing with their quality.

And it's not like they didn't have missteps before Rudess, either. I know you're not counting the debut, but you still have to explain away Falling Into Infinity and the fact that Images and Words suffers from some of the same problems in production that Systematic Chaos did, namely uneven styles and jarring song transitions (IaW is clearly the better album, but its flaws are all the more glaring considering that).

Granted, I got into Dream Theater originally from being more of a hard rock and alternative metal guy, and then DT allowed me to get further back into prog rock. Somebody taking a different approach probably will see the albums completely differently. But, as far as I'm concerned, there's no real "all downhill" in the band. At least not yet.

[Mystlyfe77]

Granted, I got into Dream Theater originally from being more of a hard rock and alternative metal guy, and then DT allowed me to get further back into prog rock.

You got into them from being into hard rock and music that doesn't exist? :confused:


Seriously people, "alternative metal" is NOT a genre.

[supernova1324]

You got into them from being into hard rock and music that doesn't exist? :confused:


Seriously people, "alternative metal" is NOT a genre.

While it may not be a legitimate genre, it does exist. It's just a fancy name for nu metal.

[macamatic]

a song that they made, Rosetta Stoned, is just basically Maynard tripping on a cactus, and people call it genius.
Stop talking. I'm serious. I saw someone write the equivalent of an ESSAY analyzing the last 42 seconds of that song. If all you hear is "Maynard tripping on a cactus", you need to go play in traffic or something.

Oh, and to the guy who did the member-by-member comparison: MJK plays keyboards.

[40FootWolf]

Well what can I say? It was a pretty lame generalization on your part, considering not all of Dream Theater's material is 'wankery.'

You can blame Jordan Rudess for the existence of that.
If you can name a Dream Theater album that doesn't have at least three songs that are entirely focused on Mike Portnoy or James Pettruci wanking from their respective instruments, than you're a liar, because that album doesn't exist.

[killer_roach]

If you can name a Dream Theater album that doesn't have at least three songs that are entirely focused on Mike Portnoy or James Pettruci wanking from their respective instruments, than you're a liar, because that album doesn't exist.

Define "wanking". And, for the record, I am pretty sure that, by a reasonable definition, Metropolis Pt. 2 and Falling Into Infinity would both apply to your metric there.

This seems to just go back, though, to the criticism of Mozart in the movie "Amadeus"... "too many notes."

[Nuff_Said]

While it may not be a legitimate genre, it does exist. It's just a fancy name for nu metal.

err, i suppose, but people should just call it what it is and stop trying to flower up the name with a less derogatory stigma.

[Soror_YZBL]

Seriously people, "alternative metal" is NOT a genre.

Correct. It's a travesty.

[killer_roach]

err, i suppose, but people should just call it what it is and stop trying to flower up the name with a less derogatory stigma.

Well, giving it a name with a derogatory stigma is a pretty good way to open it up for abuse, as has happened... there are some groups that have been classified as "nu-metal" that really aren't that bad (IMO, but YMMV). Sure, a lot of it is absolute garbage, but how about sticking with a name that isn't casting aspersions, unless your goal is to simply judge based on your own preferences?

[Mystlyfe77]

Well, giving it a name with a derogatory stigma is a pretty good way to open it up for abuse, as has happened... there are some groups that have been classified as "nu-metal" that really aren't that bad (IMO, but YMMV). Sure, a lot of it is absolute garbage, but how about sticking with a name that isn't casting aspersions, unless your goal is to simply judge based on your own preferences?

Because nü metal is what it is and what is has been called since the mid-90s. The term alternative metal really didn't start floating around until the mid-2000s.

More importantly, there's nothing particularly "alternative" about it. Calling it alternative metal implies a link to alternative rock and/or is a collection of sub-genres that differ greatly from the mainstream metal. However, neither are true. It isn't particularly close to alternative rock, nor does it utilize the term alternative in the same fashion that hip-hop and country do. It is simply a different sub-genre of metal.

You can't randomly redefine genres to shred stigmas that those genres earned. It's not like it was unfairly applied to the genre (see emo), it did it to itself.

[killer_roach]

The term nu-metal is used specifically to attach a negative stigma, though... apart from a small handful of people, there seems to be very little about how people classify bands as nu-metal that gives it any real meaning in the common vernacular besides "I don't like them". In that case I say it fails as a genre name.

[Mystlyfe77]

The term nu-metal is used specifically to attach a negative stigma, though... apart from a small handful of people, there seems to be very little about how people classify bands as nu-metal that gives it any real meaning in the common vernacular besides "I don't like them". In that case I say it fails as a genre name.

Those are the same people who call anything with screaming "screamo," anything with acoustic guitar "country," anything dissonant "noise," and goth music "emo." Just because people use it, incorrectly, as a derogatory term doesn't mean that the genre must be renamed.

[killer_roach]

I guess the question is whether or not the name has any proper meaning, that's all. I've been trying to look for a consistent definition for it, and have come up empty.

[40FootWolf]

Define "wanking". And, for the record, I am pretty sure that, by a reasonable definition, Metropolis Pt. 2 and Falling Into Infinity would both apply to your metric there.

This seems to just go back, though, to the criticism of Mozart in the movie "Amadeus"... "too many notes."

Well, to counter that last statement with a quote from Doctor David Thorpe, "I suppose these same people think that a book is better if it has more words?"

[Bub]

And here I was, thinking you'd quit making pointless threads like this. This bring up the question though, what do Dream Theater and Tool have to do with each other?

They're both progressive metal bands.

[KingProgdor]

They're both progressive metal bands.

Tool's definitely on the fence I think. Just like with OSI, I always find myself unable to call them Progressive Rock or Progressive Metal.

[Mystlyfe77]

I guess the question is whether or not the name has any proper meaning, that's all. I've been trying to look for a consistent definition for it, and have come up empty.

Nü metal describes a form of metal that came to prominence in the mid/late-90s and withdrew from the mainstream in the early 2000s. It placed emphasis on rhythm and texture over melody, with most bands used dropped D-tuned (or even 7-stringed), distorted, thick/"chunky" guitars and palm muting to create a syncopated, groove-based lead line. Guitar solos are uncommon, and usually much shorter and simpler than in other forms of metal. There are also significant influences from grunge and hip-hop (including, sometimes, the presence of rapped vocals). The bass is often an important part, backing up the guitar rhythms. Slap bass is somewhat common. Vocals are usually shouted or sung, but some bands have used growled vocals (though not nearly to the extents of extreme metal). Lyrics are typically angry and/or angsty, and almost all nü metal bands seem to curse a lot. Many acts will add instrumentation uncommon to metal, such as turntables, sampling, and additional percussionists. The drumming features far less double-bass than other genres of metal (though still present in some bands, and typically in bursts), and typically is relatively straightforward and hip-hop influenced. Song structures are usually radio-friend (verse-chorus) and relatively short.

Happy?

[40FootWolf]

Tool's definitely on the fence I think. Just like with OSI, I always find myself unable to call them Progressive Rock or Progressive Metal.
My personal definition of progressive is something that pushes whatever it's involved in forward. I think Tool qualifies because they're legitimately trying new things and taking metal in a direction it hasn't really been before.

You know, between Traced in Air by Cynic and Crack the Skye by Mastodon, I'd wager that progressive metal is making something of a comeback.

[Mystlyfe77]

My personal definition of progressive is something that pushes whatever it's involved in forward. I think Tool qualifies because they're legitimately trying new things and taking metal in a direction it hasn't really been before.

But Tool isn't metal.



You know, between Traced in Air by Cynic and Crack the Skye by Mastodon, I'd wager that progressive metal is making something of a comeback.

I wasn't aware it ever left.

[40FootWolf]

But Tool isn't metal.

I wasn't aware it ever left.



I disagree. I feel like most people would, on the count that Tool isn't metal.

And as to it "leaving", I've never been a fan of groups like Dream Theater and Symphony-X, who sacrifice songwriting and aesthetics for pure musicianship, so in the former two categories I mentioned, it definitely is making a comeback.

[Mystlyfe77]

And as to it "leaving", I've never been a fan of groups like Dream Theater and Symphony-X, who sacrifice songwriting and aesthetics for pure musicianship, so in the former two categories I mentioned, it definitely is making a comeback.

While I wholly agree about Dream Theater (and their clones), I completely disagree about the Symphony X hatred. Symphony X can write one hell of a song.

But I get the feeling that you haven't really dug into the genre a whole lot. Bands like Orphaned Land, Gojira, Opeth, Amorphis, Baroness, Nevermore, Control Denied, and others have been keeping the genre quite healthy during the 90s and 2000s.

[macamatic]

I disagree. I feel like most people would, on the count that Tool isn't metal.
The general consensus on Metal Archives is that Tool is basically progressive hard rock (the topic has come up hundreds of times). I'm not good at the whole genre thing (honestly Tool sounds no less metal than Dream Theater to me) so someone else will have to explain why they're not metal.

EDIT: Apparently they have metallic elements thrown in now and then, but the general riffing style isn't metal. So there you go.

[Mystlyfe77]

The general consensus on Metal Archives is that Tool is basically progressive hard rock (the topic has come up hundreds of times). I'm not good at the whole genre thing (honestly Tool sounds no less metal than Dream Theater to me) so someone else will have to explain why they're not metal.

Because, aside of their guitar tone on some songs, they really don't have much in common with metal. The part that makes it murky is that they don't have a lot in common with many other genres, either.
I call them progressive rock because that's the only label that nobody can really argue with. They're clearly rock and they clearly have progressive characteristics.

edit: your edit basically explains my post

[40FootWolf]

While I wholly agree about Dream Theater (and their clones), I completely disagree about the Symphony X hatred. Symphony X can write one hell of a song.

But I get the feeling that you haven't really dug into the genre a whole lot. Bands like Orphaned Land, Gojira, Opeth, Amorphis, Baroness, Nevermore, Control Denied, and others have been keeping the genre quite healthy during the 90s and 2000s.I'll admit that Opeth is pretty keen, but I've honestly never thought Control Denied was Chuck Schuldiner's finest hour and I can kind of take or leave Gojira. I'll check out the rest of them for sure, though.

[killer_roach]

I'll heartily second the recommendation of Amorphis. Their older stuff is a bit hit or miss at times, but their new album (Skyforger) is excellent.

[zeldazeppelin]

While I wholly agree about Dream Theater (and their clones), I completely disagree about the Symphony X hatred. Symphony X can write one hell of a song.
I Agree with this post. Symphony X is just to good of a band song writing wise to hate for me any way. On the other hand Dream Theater and their clones write bad music in my opinion as well as the fact Dream Theater has some very annoying fans.

[Parodygm]

Tool by a solid margin.