I Don't Think Some People Understand Music...

[QuickstrikePr0]

Everyday there are a few music threads that always degenerate into a pit of flaming and ignorance. Everyone in this forum has an opinion towards music, but it is often narrow minded and can't comprehend music as a whole. I write this in an attempt to explain my idea of music as a whole, and in hopes that a few people will get a new understanding of it.

To completely understand music, one must think of music as one entirety. Not divided by genres. Not with any stigmas attached. Just one big jumble of millions upon millions of songs. The vast majority of these songs you will never hear. There are some you love and some that don't appeal to you. Obviously, most of the music we are interested in is the music that personally appeals to us. That is completely normal, but it must also be understood that what does not appeal to one person, appeals to many others. Why people hate certain music is beyond me. If a certain song or artist does not appeal to you, don't listen. Music only creates good. Perhaps it doesn't make your day, but many, many other people find enjoyment out of it. Hating something that gives others enjoyment, just because it doesn't appeal to you, is incredibly selfish and ignorant.

To simplify the millions of musical pieces that exist, people came up with genres and sub-genres to classify the music more easily. The point of these categories was not to divide people musically. It was not to limit one's personal taste. It was not to divide good music from bad music. Too often we see people use genres as a way to attack entire groups of music. Very little can be assumed about music simply from looking at the genre. It is impossible to hate an entire genre unless a defining factor of that genre directly conflicts with what you consider 'good' music. This becomes more and more unlikely as time passes. Music evolves within the current genres, stretching what we know and testing our ideas of styles of music. It becomes more unlikely that entire genres will not appeal. Just as there is no one in this forum that can say they enjoy every song from a particular genre, it is equally unlikely that one can hate an entire genre.

I understand that this will do little to change the attitude of the majority. I also understand that most people won't even bother to read through the OP, and it will eventually turn into another flame fest. I hope that a few do understand what I am trying to convey. Next time you enter a music discussion, remember to do it with an open mind. Remember that excluding genres only limits your ability to indulge in music. Remember that music is meant to make the world better.

[Teh_Jakester]

This is all I got out of that:
blah blah blah genres suck blah /wrists cant hate genres evil!!! blah blah

Genres are a guide to finding music you will like. If you like a band, you check out more in the same genre. Natural order of things and such.

[QuickstrikePr0]

Read harder. You're getting the wrong idea.

[afterstasis]

i agree with the OP (aside from a few small linguistic differences)...

he's not condemning the use of genres, but rather the misuse.

[CheezerRox]

Completely understand the OP. Yet, I will continue to hate certain bands, and as far as I can think of right now, one genre (hair metal). Only because these bands, and this genre, almost directly conflict with what I believe music should be, and what I believe in just as a person. I won't shove these beliefs down other people's throats, though. I keep it to myself, unless it comes up. Otherwise I most likely wouldn't mention it.

Anyway, it's always nice to get a different perspective on things, so I appreciate it, Quickstike.

[AxlVanHagar]

Well said OP, well said.

[KingProgdor]

I understand entirely what you're coming from, but...


Why people hate certain music is beyond me. If a certain song or artist does not appeal to you, don't listen. Music only creates good. Perhaps it doesn't make your day, but many, many other people find enjoyment out of it. Hating something that gives others enjoyment, just because it doesn't appeal to you, is incredibly selfish and ignorant.

I find absolutely nothing wrong with disliking and even criticizing certain genres of music for not being appealing. If you don't like something it should be your right to express it, whether someone else enjoys it or not. That's why we were given free thought and the ability to convey thought through speech, and making a statement like "hating something that gives others enjoyment is incredibly selfish and ignorant," thereby telling people to keep their mouths shut if a simple idea could be potentially offensive, is plain ridiculous.

[Birdboy.Dom]

I always think of music with an open mind, but what I can't stand is when some people claim someone is a god and assume everyone not as talented as that person must be awful. I also hate is when people call a piece of music "just noise" and "not music", that really grinds my gears.

[afterstasis]

I find absolutely nothing wrong with disliking and even criticizing certain genres of music for not being appealing. If you don't like something it should be your right to express it, whether someone else enjoys it or not. That's why we were given free thought and the ability to convey thought through speech, and making a statement like "hating something that gives others enjoyment is incredibly selfish and ignorant," thereby telling people to keep their mouths shut if a simple idea could be potentially offensive, is plain ridiculous.

this would be the section i mentioned earlier...
i can understand if the OP means to actively hate on music is selfish and ignorant, but such is human nature.

[willdabeast21]

Hating something that gives others enjoyment, just because it doesn't appeal to you, is incredibly selfish and ignorant.


I hate Communism, but I bet Josef Stalin enjoyed it.
Does that make me selfish and ignorant?

[afterstasis]

I hate Communism, but I bet Josef Stalin enjoyed it.
Does that make me selfish and ignorant?

are you related to samuel?

[willdabeast21]

are you related to samuel?

That would depend entirely on who exactly Samuel is

[Teh_Jakester]

I hate Communism, but I bet Josef Stalin enjoyed it.
Does that make me selfish and ignorant?

What's wrong with Communism? Everyone's equal; everyone shares. It's a great idea, but its execution just sucks.

[afterstasis]

That would depend entirely on who exactly Samuel is

the guy who made a hitler/beatles comparison a few threads down.

as much as i dislike "getting freaky" with brokencyde and won't hesitate to hurl a petty insult or two their way from time to time i really don't think communism makes for a very good analogy when talking about poopy music.

[CheezerRox]

I hate Communism, but I bet Josef Stalin enjoyed it.
Does that make me selfish and ignorant?

Yes, because you could hurt his feelings.

Yes, Stalin has feelings, respect them.


What's wrong with Communism? Everyone's equal; everyone shares. It's a great idea, but its execution just sucks.

I disagree. Bad idea, and bad execution. Government with total control is BAD. Plain and simple. Because no matter what, at some point, it WILL become corrupted from that power. So sad to see our country moving towards that.

[willdabeast21]

What's wrong with Communism? Everyone's equal; everyone shares. It's a great idea, but its execution just sucks.

Communism's just as flawed as any other system of government
But yes, most communist leaders don't execute it very well

[willdabeast21]

the guy who made a hitler/beatles comparison a few threads down.



I never compared Stalin to music of any kind

[Mystlyfe77]

Rather than getting into a socio-economic debate here, I'm going to modify his post to something a little less controversial:

I hate genocide, but I bet Heinrich Himmler enjoyed it.
Does that make me selfish and ignorant?

[QuickstrikePr0]

You guys have it the wrong way. I never said you cannot dislike a genre of music, or dislike some form of government, as an example, but I just don't like it when people express it.

If you are going to express it, fine, but please do so in a courteous and intelligible way.

[willdabeast21]

You guys have it the wrong way. I never said you cannot dislike a genre of music, or dislike some form of government, as an example, but I just don't like it when people express it.

If you are going to express it, fine, but please do so in a courteous and intelligible way.

So, if I'm living in an oppressed society, being controlled by some crazy dictator, then i should just quietly go about my government-controlled business like everything is right and just with the world?

[instantdeath999]

Rather than getting into a socio-economic debate here, I'm going to modify his post to something a little less controversial:

I hate genocide, but I bet Heinrich Himmler enjoyed it.
Does that make me selfish and ignorant?

Well, I'm not sure I'd put crunkcore and genocide on the same level.

[Mystlyfe77]

You guys have it the wrong way. I never said you cannot dislike a genre of music, or dislike some form of government, as an example, but I just don't like it when people express it.

If you are going to express it, fine, but please do so in a courteous and intelligible way.

It's clear that this opinion isn't so much about other people not understanding music, but rather you not understanding the nature of a good portion of humanity or the point of a discussion board (forum).

[willdabeast21]

It's clear that this opinion isn't so much about other people not understanding music, but rather you not understanding the nature of a good portion of humanity or the point of a discussion board (forum).

Good call

[afterstasis]

If you are going to express it, fine, but please do so in a courteous and intelligible way.

while i'm not too bothered by anyone vocalizing hate, this is what's important to me.


if anyone is negatively affected by any music in the same way that others have been by communism or genocide then perhaps voluntary hearing damage is the way to go?

[CheezerRox]

So, if I'm living in an oppressed society, being controlled by some crazy dictator, then i should just quietly go about my government-controlled business like everything is right and just with the world?

That's a bit more extreme, though, don't you think? I mean, I get what you're saying, I do, but it's just a little different, situation-wise.


Well, I'm not sure I'd put crunkcore and genocide on the same level.

You're right, crunkcore's going too far.

[QuickstrikePr0]

So, if I'm living in an oppressed society, being controlled by some crazy dictator, then i should just quietly go about my government-controlled business like everything is right and just with the world?


That is a different matter all together and cannot be compared to the genres of music.

Besides, if your dictator is crazy, I don't think he would like it too much if you spoke out against him, although if it is the right thing to do. I'd bet money that you would not be around for too much longer.

But once again, if you dislike, say pop for instance, please don't go expressing it. All that does is tear down the ones who do like pop. It gets us no where. Music was created to, as I said in the OP, make the world a better place.

I probably will not, and cannot change anyone's opinions here, but if you do go expressing your opinion on genres that you dislike, please do so in a courteous, and mature way.

[Teh_Jakester]

I disagree. Bad idea, and bad execution. Government with total control is BAD. Plain and simple. Because no matter what, at some point, it WILL become corrupted from that power. So sad to see our country moving towards that.

The way I see it, Democracy has major flaws, as well. Remember the Great Depression? That wasn't the government's fault, but the people's. They heard that the banks were going through a rough patch, so they withdrew all their money, causing all the banks to go bankrupt.
It wasn't until, er... FDR, I think it was, who put tighter government control on things, that we got out of it.
It's a balancing act.

[afterstasis]

But once again, if you dislike, say pop for instance, please don't go expressing it. All that does is tear down the ones who do like pop. It gets us no where. Music was created to, as I said in the OP, make the world a better place.


maybe i don't agree with you as much as i thought.

[Mystlyfe77]

Hugs and love and flowers and puppies for everyone!

[back_blows]

The way I see it, Democracy has major flaws, as well. Remember the Great Depression? That wasn't the government's fault, but the people's. They heard that the banks were going through a rough patch, so they withdrew all their money, causing all the banks to go bankrupt.
It wasn't until, er... FDR, I think it was, who put tighter government control on things, that we got out of it.
It's a balancing act.

If you're suggesting that "free-for-all democracy" doesn't work, well duh!!

[Teh_Jakester]

If you're suggesting that "free-for-all democracy" doesn't work, well duh!!

It wasn't exactly free-for-all then. We, the United States, have both too much control, and too little.

[willdabeast21]

That is a different matter all together and cannot be compared to the genres of music.

Besides, if your dictator is crazy, I don't think he would like it too much if you spoke out against him, although if it is the right thing to do. I'd bet money that you would not be around for too much longer.

But once again, if you dislike, say pop for instance, please don't go expressing it. All that does is tear down the ones who do like pop. It gets us no where. Music was created to, as I said in the OP, make the world a better place.

I probably will not, and cannot change anyone's opinions here, but if you do go expressing your opinion on genres that you dislike, please do so in a courteous, and mature way.

I agree that just simply going "**** Slipknot" is annoying and doesn't get us anywhere, but if you can give a specific reason for disliking a band/genre/song/musician, then you have every right to do so.
Like, if you hate Fall Out Boy because they are whiny and everybody sees them as the poster band of emo (which is completely untrue, by the way), then I have no problem if you decide to express it like that, just give a reason or 2 to back up your opinions

[instantdeath999]

Hugs and love and flowers and puppies for everyone!

Can I trade the flowers, hugs and love for more puppies?

[QuickstrikePr0]

I agree that just simply going "**** Slipknot" is annoying and doesn't get us anywhere, but if you can give a specific reason for disliking a band/genre/song/musician, then you have every right to do so.
Like, if you hate Fall Out Boy because they are whiny and everybody sees them as the poster band of emo (which is completely untrue, by the way), then I have no problem if you decide to express it like that, just give a reason or 2 to back up your opinions

I can agree with that. That right there is reasonable.

I did not start this thread intending to stir arguments of conflicting point of views. All I wanted was to open some eyes up to a different point of view. I wanted to give you guys a different outlook on music itself. Sure, my description may not be perfect, but that is the best I can do.

[willdabeast21]

If you're suggesting that "free-for-all democracy" doesn't work, well duh!!

good call, Capitalist democracies are just as flawed as Communism, just in a different way

[Mystlyfe77]

Can I trade the flowers, hugs and love for more puppies?

No. In fact you get rainbows instead of the single helping of puppies.

[afterstasis]

just like any other statement, if you sound like a close-minded jerk when discussing your distaste for a band then you can't be surprised when people think you're being a close-minded jerk...

[instantdeath999]

No. In fact you get rainbows instead of the single helping of puppies.

You're not nice.

[willdabeast21]

No. In fact you get rainbows instead of the single helping of puppies.

yeah, way to show that greedy bastard

[CheezerRox]

The way I see it, Democracy has major flaws, as well. Remember the Great Depression? That wasn't the government's fault, but the people's. They heard that the banks were going through a rough patch, so they withdrew all their money, causing all the banks to go bankrupt.
It wasn't until, er... FDR, I think it was, who put tighter government control on things, that we got out of it.
It's a balancing act.

Well, yeah, of course. Every system is flawed. If there was a perfect system people would use it. There's always great amounts of stupidity and selfish-ness from the government and the people that end badly, but in the end, I'd take a democratic nation to a communist or socialist one any day.

Also, we're gonna get this thread locked with all the politics, haha.

[back_blows]

It wasn't exactly free-for-all then. We, the United States, have both too much control, and too little.

There has never, ever in the history of mankind been a free-for-all democracy. It would be an incredibly stupid decision for a country to have a free-for-all democracy, as this would just lead to anarchy. I agree with your second statement though.

[willdabeast21]

Well, yeah, of course. Every system is flawed. If there was a perfect system people would use it. There's always great amounts of stupidity and selfish-ness from the government and the people that end badly, but in the end, I'd take a democratic nation to a communist or socialist one any day.

Also, we're gonna get this thread locked with all the politics, haha.

I thought that immediately after my original Stalin comment
And I agree, Capitalist democracies aren't anywhere close to perfect, they breed greedy, self-righteous jerks who depend on their desire to possess material objects.
But that beats communism or fascism for sure

[Teh_Jakester]

but in the end, I'd take a democratic nation to a communist or socialist one any day.

I don't know; from what I hear of Socialism, it sounds pretty okay.

[QuickstrikePr0]

Socialism works better for smaller nations than larger ones. It would put too much stress on a larger nations economy.

[CheezerRox]

I thought that immediately after my original Stalin comment
And I agree, Capitalist democracies aren't anywhere close to perfect, they breed greedy, self-righteous jerks who depend on their desire to possess material objects.
But that beats communism or fascism for sure

Exactly.


I don't know; from what I hear of Socialism, it sounds pretty okay.

Yeah, from what you HEAR. Do my research, and then try living in one. Why do you think people IN those nations hate it so much and fight it?

[Mystlyfe77]

I thought that immediately after my original Stalin comment
And I agree, Capitalist democracies aren't anywhere close to perfect, they breed greedy, self-righteous jerks who depend on their desire to possess material objects.
But that beats communism or fascism for sure

For the record.
Capitalism = economic policy
Communism = economic policy
Democracy = government
Fascism = government

It would be quite possible to have a communist democracy.

Also communism =/= socialism.


Socialism works better for smaller nations than larger ones. It would put too much stress on a larger nations economy.

That's not true unless the small nation has literally every resource it needs to be totally self-sufficient.

[tridentgum0]

How did this conversation start? :confused:

[Mystlyfe77]

Yeah, from what you HEAR. Do my research, and then try living in one. Why do you think people IN those nations hate it so much and fight it?

Actually, many Russians prospered and enjoyed communism in the USSR. It was the economic collapse towards the end of the USSR (as well as some of the fascist policies of Stalin) that alienated and upset the people.

Even in other communist countries, it's often the fascist policies that accompany most communist regimes that spread the discontent. You have to look at each variable separately.

[Teh_Jakester]

Actually, many Russians prospered and enjoyed communism in the USSR. It was the economic collapse towards the end of the USSR (as well as some of the fascist policies of Stalin) that alienated and upset the people.

I always thought they hated it, because humans had a natural desire to progress and make something of themselves.

[Mystlyfe77]

I always thought they hated it, because humans had a natural desire to progress and make something of themselves.

Many did move up in the world and had better lives during the early communist regime in Russia. Unemployment dropped massively, education increased, women's rights increased, etc.

Though this is also a result of the very poor conditions of Russia leading up to the revolutions in 1917 under Tsarist rule. It should also be noted that peasant farmers (though a definite minority when compared to the rapidly industrialized urban populations) hated the idea of collective farms and fought it bitterly.

It's the same essential idea that people "vote with their pursestrings." Many people saw an increase in their living quality, and thus liked the idea. The same is for why it ultimately collapsed, when their living conditions decreased due to the failing economy. And the same is true for why most Russians are putting up with their reduced liberties and leftist economic policies today (their living conditions are better than they were in the 1990s).

[JukeBoxHero]

But once again, if you dislike, say pop for instance, please don't go expressing it. All that does is tear down the ones who do like pop. It gets us no where.


You see there is really is nothing wrong with expressing it, like it in the context of a statement like this.

"I'm not a fan of pop really, never could get into it."

That's not tearing down people who like pop, if they're offended by that then they're being way to sensitive to a little negativity. Now this following statement would be one that might tear at people because it generally is offensive.

"Pop sucks balls, no talent in the genre, all people who like the genre is sheep."

There is nothing wrong with expression. There is constructive ways to do so, and there is nonconstructive, off topic, or rather stupid ways to express an opinion.

[Steelerfreak1977]

I don't know; from what I hear of Socialism, it sounds pretty okay.


Please never vote. Thanks.

[Teh_Jakester]

Please never vote. Thanks.

I'm moving to Britain when I'm eighteen, so okay.
I'd've voted for McCain, btw rofl

[MrFruitLord]

The war on Socialism is an idea that has lasted to long.

[BrianExplosion]

I'd've voted for McCain, btw

Good for you. :)

[Dante1847]

love how people sabotage an original point by going on a completely irrelevant tangent

re: the tangent....socialism and communism work in theory, but almost always fail in practice because a society that utilizes one of the two still requires government, and that government inevitably forms a minority that takes a disproportionate amount of the wealth, undermining the socialist or communist elements.

re: the original post, I get whats said and would agree that certain posting etiquette should be observed, and support it for more pragmatic reasons. The etiquette is this: if you support a band/genre/artist's inclusion in RB, then seek out the threads that have been made for it since those threads are made--naturally--to express support for specific groups/genres. The threads serve as a gauge of sorts for HMX so that they can measure how much support there is for X, Y, and Z. If you don't like those bands, stay the hell out of the thread if your only intention is to say "this band sucks"....and instead, go to the threads for the bands YOU want in RB. I guarantee you your voice will be MUCH better heard.

[Squaretriangles]

Darn, and I thought this was going to be the second(third?) coming of 'Stupid Things'. Misleading thread title is misleading.

[MrFruitLord]

re: the tangent....socialism and communism work in theory, but almost always fail in practice because a society that utilizes one of the two still requires government, and that government inevitably forms a minority that takes a disproportionate amount of the wealth, undermining the socialist or communist elements.

Portugal would beg to differ.

[Dante1847]

Portugal would beg to differ.

oh you mean the same Portugal that's part of the European Union?

Even if you were right--which you're not--history is still in my favor

[Der_Lex]

Looks like a well-intentioned thread turned into a completely irrelevant political discussion of the kind we try to avoid here on this forum. Awesome.