Is renting Lego:RB just to import unethical?

[newmanator]

I wonder if there will be redeem codes like for the 20 free songs or if they will do the same thing they did with RB1.
I bought RB1, played a lot, imported when I got RB2 then sold it. I'm not sure if I want to just rent Lego:RB to import then bring it back the next day.

[Oscar-Rio]

well i was banned from the forums for it; so yes. bass-turds

[Chainedsoulz]

Oscars banned from the forums for everything. Lol.

[nascarfan19]

i seriously doubt video stores will include the manual for people who rent it first to steal the codes

[yelladog32]

How is that unethical?

[wcarnation]

i seriously doubt video stores will include the manual for people who rent it first to steal the codes

Who says there will be redeem codes?

I hope there isn't because that would destroy the chance of anything but new copies of the game being exportable. What do you do when you can't find a new copy?

[Flawless]

I hope it's a code in the manual.

[Chainedsoulz]

Even if the codes in the manual, once someone rents it, and if they do export it, it wouldn't work.

[Meatmuppet]

"Hey, I came here to rent Lego Rock Band."
"Here you go."
*Tries the code, doesn't work*
*Comes back*
"This is the wrong one."
"What?"
"I need another one. What is the latest one you've got?"
"Well, sir, you'll need to pay again."
"I DON'T CARE ALL I WANT IS MY SONGS"

[kiggidykev]

My guess is code in the manual and one-time import. We were lucky with the RB1 import being cheap, I'm guessing not so much for now on, heh

[SirDrexl]

My guess is code in the manual and one-time import. We were lucky with the RB1 import being cheap, I'm guessing not so much for now on, heh

I never thought you were supposed to be able to just sell off your copy of RB anyway. I know people will point to the export key, but I thought that was a nominal charge for people who remained owners of the game. I figured that using codes in the track packs and the Lego game was a way of stopping people from getting a cheap export from a borrowed copy.

Then again, I haven't heard any official position on this. If someone from Harmonix came out and said "oh sure, that export key covers the songs, no matter how you got the disc" I stand corrected.

[kiggidykev]

Just to expand my thoughts a little more: RB2 had that one-time use code for the 20 Free Songs, Beatles has a code in the manual for some as-of-yet-unknown reason

Stands to reason that LEGO will have a one-time use code. Otherwise I'm guessing a ton of people will just rent it to get the songs, and that would cut into the profits of the game severely.

[C-Pr0mpt]

How about you just read the threads on the same topic regarding RB1 and save us another 100 threads for this game.

[princeofcups]

Unethical? What's with the angsty guilt trip. If HMX let's you do it, then it's silly not to. If they don't want you to do it, then they'll make it technically impossible.

[Jglaubman]

They aren't going to have the export be like RB1. By the time RB1 was exportable, RB2 was coming out. They weren't going to make much more profit from RB1. They are not going to do this when LEGO comes out. My guess is a one time export code like ACDC.

[CONAN9845]

It's certainly in their best interest to have one time downloads per disc, and it's CERTAINLY in the best interest of the developers of L:RB to have one time downloads.

[Alright_Computer]

There was a similar discussion not so long ago asking pretty much the same question about RB1. As I recall, that one didn't end well and eventually diverged into personal attacks and silly arguments about semantics.

Naturally, I'm already popping the popcorn for this thread.

[BStu78]

Yes, that would be unethical. The additional licensing fee is likely negotiated on the basis of assuming that people purchasing the export key are legal owners of the game. Circumventing that would be unethical whether you can get away with it or not. Its frankly disturbing that so many people here will gladly confuse "able to get away with" and "ethical".

[DaronMalakianXVII]

Unethical? What's with the angsty guilt trip. If HMX let's you do it, then it's silly not to. If they don't want you to do it, then they'll make it technically impossible.

I agree.

[DookieMan]

I'm guessing it will be a one time code, to avoid what happens with RB1. Unlike RB1, you'll be able to export it as a brand new game. You might wanna buy it, use the code, and sell it stating that you used the code?

[blzbub74]

How is that unethical?

It's unethical because exporting the songs is a service for those who OWN the disc. Even with RB1, the license for the export key stated that you are supposed to own and maintain possession of the disc.

[irimus]

i don't care if they include a code or if they will be exported from the disk but PLEASE include an option to select what songs to export.

[RealMessiah]

Unethical? What's with the angsty guilt trip. If HMX let's you do it, then it's silly not to. If they don't want you to do it, then they'll make it technically impossible.

Do they make it technically impossible to steal a game from the store? So that must be okay, right?

[RealMessiah]

It's unethical because exporting the songs is a service for those who OWN the disc. Even with RB1, the license for the export key stated that you are supposed to own and maintain possession of the disc.

It would be great if they made you put the disc in every two weeks in order to make the exported songs playable.

[Skittles]

i seriously doubt video stores will include the manual for people who rent it first to steal the codes
Blockbuster doesnt seem to be aware

[Doc_SoCal]

Check your moral compass. It knows.

[Apples]

This question seems premature because we don't really know the logistics of how it will export. Having said that...

If you need to ask, you already know the answer. And it's yes.

[imdwalrus05]

I hope there isn't because that would destroy the chance of anything but new copies of the game being exportable. What do you do when you can't find a new copy?

I thought the same thing about AC/DC...and a year later, they've still got shelves full of it at my local Wal-Mart.

I highly doubt that finding a new copy of Lego Rock Band will be even remotely difficult anywhere in the near future. If and when it does happen YEARS down the line, maybe Harmonix will change the import method.

[BevoTheWarrior]

Beatles has a code in the manual for some as-of-yet-unknown reason


I thought that was the code for the Beatles t-shirt for your avatar on the 360.

[jeccaneko]

My guess is code in the manual and one-time import.

This is what I'm figuring too. So good luck getting that, OP.

I figure I may as well buy it even though I mainly just want it to export. I have the feeling it'll be an easy 1000 GS and it might be fun to try to make my main RB band in Lego form.

I went ahead and pre-ordered my copy.

[newmanator]

Do they make it technically impossible to steal a game from the store? So that must be okay, right?

Good point.
Also though, I believe it is a different dev team making it and not HMX and I wouldn't think the Lego RB team would want their product going to a HMX game for a pittance (if rented.)

[I_Use_Shamwows]

I'm buying it, exporting it, then probably selling it once it's 100% done.

Everybody wins.

[DaronMalakianXVII]

They got all the money they needed from that copy of the game once it is bought, so it doesn't matter.

[RealMessiah]

Good point.
Also though, I believe it is a different dev team making it and not HMX and I wouldn't think the Lego RB team would want their product going to a HMX game for a pittance (if rented.)

That's a good call too.

[T-Hybrid]

I wonder if there will be redeem codes like for the 20 free songs or if they will do the same thing they did with RB1.
I bought RB1, played a lot, imported when I got RB2 then sold it. I'm not sure if I want to just rent Lego:RB to import then bring it back the next day.
We did this discussion already. (http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149000&highlight=unethical)

No. It isn't.

[acidicthought8]

Good point.
Also though, I believe it is a different dev team making it and not HMX and I wouldn't think the Lego RB team would want their product going to a HMX game for a pittance (if rented.)

But HMX is charting the songs though. Lets see how it breaks down. :)

[JoeL_CQC]

if harmonix does the export key thing, then i'll rent the disc.

if it is a 1 time use code, I'll buy the disc. :/

as far as ethics go in the first scenario, I don't see how it's wrong.
Sure, I'm not buying the game, but I'm still paying for the export key.

if they're doing the 1 time import, and you go out and rent the game for the 1 time import. it's pretty wrong.

it's like getting all the songs for like $10 or whatever the rent price is, while everybody else pays full price. although honestly I could see myself doing that.

[cherokeesam]

Beelzebub has a devil put aside for every shifty-eyed little monkey who tries to rent the game just for export.

That, or (like an earlier post said) Blockbuster is gonna see a LOT of (almost hourly) returns of this game with frustrated kids babbling something about "I've just GOTTA find a code that still works"

[TruthBringer]

guess i'm just an oddball in the fact that i dont mind actually paying for a good product??? I'm just happy HMX has made it exportable so I can add it too my library. Funny how so many talk about how much they love HMX and complain if something isnt exportable, but are the first to line up to rip them off if they can....

[Lily_Mu]

Did they ever say that this game could export in the first place?

[T-Hybrid]

No. They have not. So this thread is not only pre-emptive, but repetitive.

Also, if HMX doesn't want rent/export (or multiple exports off of one disc bought disc), they will implement a one-off system.

[Lily_Mu]

No. They have not. So this thread is not only pre-emptive, but repetitive.

Also, if HMX doesn't want rent/export (or multiple exports off of one disc bought disc), they will implement a one-off system.

So why is everyone so antsy about this?

It hasn't even been announced...

Fact is, it could work like RB:Unplugged, where DLC will cover the songs.

[imdwalrus05]

Did they ever say that this game could export in the first place?

They didn't, but Wired ran an article with a "highly placed" source from Harmonix that claimed it will be able to. As I said in the original thread, Wired doesn't print rumors so if they're confident enough to put it on their site then it's good enough for me.

[kiggidykev]

If LEGO turns out to not export, the world will drown in tears.

[DookieMan]

It's not announced, but a very likely rumor. If it's not exportable, I'll be really pissed.

I mean, the game is only 50 bucks. 10 bucks less than usual. I'm guessing it'll have about 65 songs, considering Band Hero is going to have a little over that amount. I mean, that's still a hell of a deal. Besides, I'll probably play the game to enjoy the game itself and for achievements. Having it in your game history can also be a signal to people whether you have it when you play online.

[blzbub74]

if harmonix does the export key thing, then i'll rent the disc.

if it is a 1 time use code, I'll buy the disc. :/

as far as ethics go in the first scenario, I don't see how it's wrong.
Sure, I'm not buying the game, but I'm still paying for the export key.



You don't see how it's wrong? Exporting is a service provided for someone who buys the disc. So again, you don't see how exporting but not buying the disc is unethical?

[JoeL_CQC]

You don't see how it's wrong? Exporting is a service provided for someone who buys the disc. So again, you don't see how exporting but not buying the disc is unethical?

honestly, no, i don't see that way.

Going back to the whole RB1 ordeal, when I purchased my export license, I purchase the rights to use RB1 content in future RB titles, which is what is says on the download page, export page, and the HMX announcement.

so in a way, I'm buying rights to use the content, but I'm not buying the rights to own a copy of the disc. which for RB1 export, doesn't say you have to own RB1 in order to use this feature.

[itzJV]

My situation is win. I'm gonna buy the Lego RB game, play it until I unlock the achievements and experience the entire game, then afterwards, export all the songs onto my hard-drive, and give the game to my sister's children. It'll allow them to play something other than RB1, which is something I gave them because they loved RB soo much~ I don't give a crap about the money, as long as everyone is happy~ :)

[aspiring]

I dont understand this. I cant wait for LEGO Rock Band. Yes i was only buying if it it exports, but its also a whole new game. It will have new trophies/acheivements, new missions, and a new look and feel. I cannot wait. Yes i will export it, but i will also play the game as well. Dont be a tightass and just buy the game.

[The Hungry Samurai]

I'd say exploiting the kindness of a game system that provides you with entertainment unethical. Theoretically it's a harmless act if done by one person but if everyone does it then it cuts the profits of Lego rockband literally in half. If a Rock Band product does poorly then it makes it less likely they will have the financial support to innovate on their next product, and in turn it gives competitors (guitar hero) a chance to close the quality gap thus endangering the product and the company on a few levels. It also will give all of Rhythm gaming reason to stop allowing export features in their games.

So no, not ethical.

[blzbub74]

honestly, no, i don't see that way.

Going back to the whole RB1 ordeal, when I purchased my export license, I purchase the rights to use RB1 content in future RB titles, which is what is says on the download page, export page, and the HMX announcement.

so in a way, I'm buying rights to use the content, but I'm not buying the rights to own a copy of the disc. which for RB1 export, doesn't say you have to own RB1 in order to use this feature.

Going back to the whole RB1 ordeal... The export license specifically says that you are supposed to own and keep possession of the game. Exporting but not maintaining possession of the game itself is a violation of the license. As another poster said, it really is a shame that people equate being able to get away with something with it being ethical to do so.

[Ferocious Q]

i'll still buy it, i mean i mind as well have fun with my friend and get achievements.

[Lovering]

I suppose it all depends on whether or not you fear eternal damnation.

[Skode]

Im keen to just play the game in its own right and concern myself with the export later...i mean after so long playing the same venues on the same game for so long im actually enthusiastic about playing some Rock Band gameplay with a difference, the same can be said of The Beatles.

Once ive had my fill of the game i shall return to Rock Band 2 and play the songs anew on there... after all no harm in doing something a little bit different without resorting to getting a GH game you cant export the songs from afterwords.

Personally to make their figures up the either HAVE to make it a one time code or to make up the deficit in money from lack of sales due to rentals make the export expensive which would suck as it punished those who actually bought the game at full price to accomodate those who dont really appreciate any of the hard work gone into LRB.

After all the more money HMX get the more they seem to ear mark it for more popular and broader bands and songs on a regular basis. Look at the Gamescom announcement bands - very little negative feedback on that count yet people are desperate to get all these super famous bands from the LRB catalogue for almost nothing in return (yet will still pop on the forums to berate DLC announcements on a weekly basi)

[T-Hybrid]

So why is everyone so antsy about this?
You question the Forum Hype Machine?

[Skode]

You question the Forum Hype Machine?

His catchphrase strikes again

[gosox333]

I'm just going to buy it, export it, and sell it.

I don't really see rent exporting as unethical, though. There's PLENTY of worse things you could be doing...

[TVRobot]

I'm just going to buy it, export it, and sell it.

I don't really see rent exporting as unethical, though. There's PLENTY of worse things you could be doing...

...buying GH5 comes to mind...

[maniac3000]

Do you have to accept a license stating you have to keep the game to use the code for the games with export codes? If not, I don't see anything wrong with using it as only one person will be able to use the game per copy purchased.
If I were Blockbuster or a similar store and the rental agreement allowed it, I'd just sell the manuals/codes separately.

[maniac3000]

Did they ever say that this game could export in the first place?

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/08/rock-band-queen/
Includes an Excel spreadsheet from PR.

[skyttskytt]

Also, if HMX doesn't want rent/export (or multiple exports off of one disc bought disc), they will implement a one-off system.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Ethics is about what should be done, and under no circumstances does can equate to should.

[Libertad87]

It's not unethical

[ghostofjarjar]

Which is exactly why I hope HMX is smart enough to create rental only manuals.

Buy the game!!

[T-Hybrid]

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Ethics is about what should be done, and under no circumstances does can equate to should.
With RB1, HMX had no choice with the implementation because they couldn't distribute one-off codes.

But with LEGO, they have a choice. They can do the one-off code (and thus tie each export to a single game purchase), or they can do the one-off paid License Key and leave it open for rental/used/borrowed copies.

[cherokeesam]

Or, HMX could make sure that all manuals/export keys shipped to rental outlets like Blockbuster and Gamefly contain malicious code that will eat your console from the inside out and make it splode into a billion pieces.

How's THAT for marketing

[BStu78]

With RB1, HMX had no choice with the implementation because they couldn't distribute one-off codes.

But with LEGO, they have a choice. They can do the one-off code (and thus tie each export to a single game purchase), or they can do the one-off paid License Key and leave it open for rental/used/borrowed copies.

You can't assume that. The same cost/benefit will come into play. The cost of including a unique code on the manual of every game may outweigh the benefits from a more locked down system of importing content. Indeed, at this point they may have some basis to estimate how many people will circumvent the system so they can better project the cost of not instituting a more restrictive system.

Just because it doesn't make economic sense for them to institute a more restrictive system, though, doesn't mean it is ethical to walk through the loophole created. Again, this gets back to stealing something from a convenience store. If the store wanted to, all of the products could be behind lock and key. Indeed, some products ARE showing that stores are clearly aware of that technology. It would just be overly costly and probably reduce sales to opperate like that. Does that make it ethical to lift something because its not under lock and key? Of course not. We're talking about the same principal here. Enforcing the restriction may not be sensible, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Being able to get away with something and something being ethical are hardly the same thng.

[Mikey35]

Buy the game, export the songs if you can and support the company. More support means more resources for future projects. Id rather see this company survive and prosper than fizzle out and die.

[BigBadZ2k6]

Didn't they say that the songs on Lego Rock Band would become DLC at some point?

[eke826s]

1. Why are people so cheap? It's going to be 40+ songs for $50. Not going to find a much better deal.

2. It's probably going to be like AC/DC, so if you don't buy it you won't get the code necessary to export.

People think it's going to be like the RB1 export, but HMX probably let RB1 export so easily because it was a partial afterthought and they had already made tons of money off of it.

[macamatic]

Going back to the whole RB1 ordeal... The export license specifically says that you are supposed to own and keep possession of the game. Exporting but not maintaining possession of the game itself is a violation of the license. As another poster said, it really is a shame that people equate being able to get away with something with it being ethical to do so.
Where, exactly, did you read this?

[snowman12345]

i seriously doubt video stores will include the manual for people who rent it first to steal the codes

Actually, I hate to admit it, but I wanted to check the manual for something on the AC/DC track pack and noticed there was a code on it so I entered it and the code had actually worked.

[Flux_Capacitor22]

Or, HMX could make sure that all manuals/export keys shipped to rental outlets like Blockbuster and Gamefly contain malicious code that will eat your console from the inside out and make it splode into a billion pieces.

How's THAT for marketing

It's like, I want to see it, but at the same time I don't want it to happen.

[blzbub74]

Where, exactly, did you read this?

On the licensing agreement that you have to accept when you go to purchase the key. You know, the legal jargon that we typically don't read when we're buying things.

[Cliphead]

Just because you're paying for the export license doesn't mean that Harmonix would offer 55 songs, most of which are masters from major artists, for only $5 if they were, say, DLC. Rock Band 1 is $30 anyway, and 55 songs for $35 isn't a bad deal at all. Lego Rock Band adds the fact that it's a brand new game rather than the somewhat obsolete old one from which they've already made their money.

To answer the original question, what do you think? That it's about unifying a collection of songs on several games you own, or giving away 50+ songs every year or so?

[macamatic]

On the licensing agreement that you have to accept when you go to purchase the key. You know, the legal jargon that we typically don't read when we're buying things.


The Rock Band Song Export Key allows you to export many of your Rock Band disc songs to your console for use in future Rock Band titles. There are no refunds for this item. For more information, see www.xbox.com/live/accounts.

Am I missing something?

[Teh_Nfsjunkie91]

If you have to ask "Is this ethical?", then there is a good chance that it is not.

[JoeL_CQC]

On the licensing agreement that you have to accept when you go to purchase the key. You know, the legal jargon that we typically don't read when we're buying things.

Nope, I read it twice today, on the PSN legal terms and agreement for the liscencing, and the Rock Band 1 export screen.

If you think it's unethical, then leave it at that. Don't go around trying to make us change how we see it.

I don't see it as me getting away with anything because I don't see me violating anything.

I'm sorry if my set of morals doesn't meet your standards.

[cheng2009]

On the licensing agreement that you have to accept when you go to purchase the key. You know, the legal jargon that we typically don't read when we're buying things.

That's incorrect, Harmonix did not write anything to that effect.
Look, I agree with you that it is unethical to do this, but stating that it's illegal is a different matter, and pretending that it's written when it's not doesn't help the cause at all.

[beingmused]

Unethical?? Phaw!!

I will get the songs from a shared DLC account when one of us steals the game from a Blockbuster, and play them on my PS3 made out of diamonds soaked in the blood of the children that mined them under the command of a cruel warlord.

Now THAT'S unethical.

[hammygas]

please stop trying to say that is unethical to sell back the RB1 disc after import. I owned RB1 until the day RB2 came out and I played it to death. I paid my 5$ import fee and sold it to gamestop. Harmonix got the money from my initial purchase plus I spent the the trade-in value on more microsoft points so that i could buy more downloads. Over-all that sounds like a win for harmonix. Also, I bought AC/DC, exported the songs and sold that back to. I don't need 50 different rock band discs sitting around my house, I would rather consolidate and I see nothing morally unsound about that. Renting and importing is a different issue altogether though.

[T-Hybrid]

It depends. Were the children spawns of the devil?

[acidicthought8]

Unethical?? Phaw!!

I will get the songs from a shared DLC account when one of us steals the game from a Blockbuster, and play them on my PS3 made out of diamonds soaked in the blood of the children that mined them under the command of a cruel warlord.

Now THAT'S unethical.

Man, that's almost as bad as buying Nike products. :rolleyes:

[beefigursk]

I believe it is unethical and I am pretty positive that rental services will prevent people from using their redemption code, suggesting that it be either in the manual or on the box

[Chuck_Fiasco]

I dont think its unethical.

[DeadManDrumming]

If it is between paying 50/60 dollars or 5 dollars. Yeah....Blockbuster here I come.

I think the reason they wanted RB1 to NOT have a one time use code is because at that time most Gamestops wouldn't stock up on *new* RB1's. So if you jumped into the game late you would be screwed out of your codes since you can only find used copies of the product.

That is the most logical reason to not include a one time use code. The game was meant to be export friendly after all.

[karaokefreak]

uuuhm, you're not telling me you think it might not be possible to get a NEW copy of the game? pffft, that the biggest BS I have ever heard. There are a zillion stores, and in any doubt, buy it from amazon or whatever. There is ALWAYS a way to get a new copy. They still sell RB 1 over here...

I really hope that export will only be available by a voucher code PLUS a fee for licencing. I think it is really wrong to get a game, copy its songs and bring it back, no matter if its from a video rental or a second hand gameshop.

By doing that, you rip off somebody. If you don't buy the game, but rent it, you rip off HMX

If you buy it and resell it, you rip off the customer that buys your game second hand. One way or another, you steal, and with that you harm HMX! Think of it, if we all did that, then HMX couldn't follow that philosophy of a music plattform anymore, or they would have to raise prices for DLC in order to compensate.

So, by stealing songs, you harm HMX and everyone else who loves this concept! I hate such egoistic folks...

[Dragonclaw]

I will say this...renting the game and hoping that HMX is just willing to let everyone copy the songs over and over is in fact slimy. If you actually like the game and the songs you should PAY for them, even if you do in fact trade in the game later. I hope it IS a one use code and I certainly wouldn't be opposed to rental outlets getting special copies with no codes at all. Just like the Gamestops in my area remove the books and keep them with the actual game to prevent the "run in and just write down the code" crowd. The money spent on the game in no small parts HELPS HMX MAKE A BETTER GAME...better music licensing, the ability to thrive off of DLC rather than disks...just renting and transfering the songs is a pretty good argument for ending track packs and exportability entirely.

[T-Hybrid]

I believe it is unethical and I am pretty positive that rental services will prevent people from using their redemption code, suggesting that it be either in the manual or on the box
Do we even know if there's going to be a redemption code? For all we know it's going to be a built in process similiar to what was added to RB1.

And at that point, there's nothing the rental company is going to be able to do to prevent people from doing it short of not letting them rent the game.

[Dragonclaw]

Do we even know if there's going to be a redemption code? For all we know it's going to be a built in process similiar to what was added to RB1.

And at that point, there's nothing the rental company is going to be able to do to prevent people from doing it short of not letting them rent the game.

..tear out the last page of the book if it's a code...which I suspect it will be. With the attention developers have been giving the used and rental game market I doubt seriously they will have an unlimitted use situation on a brand new game so everyone with a gamefly or blockbuster account just scores free DLC.

[dragonflyr]

Do we even know if there's going to be a redemption code? For all we know it's going to be a built in process similiar to what was added to RB1.

And at that point, there's nothing the rental company is going to be able to do to prevent people from doing it short of not letting them rent the game.

agreed. if it's like rb1 ... then end of story.

( rental copies should NOT have a code. )

if you can rent and then buy an export key, then it is wide open. legal.
i know that is kinda crappy ... but if you can buy an export key, there is nothing preventing you from renting and exporting via a purchased export key. unless ... like t-hybrid says ... the game never hits the rental stores.

imo ... codes should be in the PURCHASED game. no codes in rental copy. export key on rock band store.

[T-Hybrid]

Do "rental copies" even exist? The rental copies I've seen in stores are always identical to the retail product. Manual and everything.

The only weird thing is back in the day a rental would come WITH the manual. Where as these days I don't think they give it to you anymore (which is kind of odd)

[cjg]

Anyone who thinks they'll be able to rent the game and then export the songs for a smaller price is an idiot.

You'll have to pay for the whole game to export the songs.

What a waste of a thread.

[dragonflyr]

not sure about "rental copies" and manuals ... it's been a long time since i rented a game.

wouldn't it just make a ton of sense that they put the code on a separate piece of paper, like a voucher?? it (the voucher) could then be included in the retail "purchasable" package, and NOT in the "rental" package. argument over.. sort of . . .

[dragonflyr]

Anyone who thinks they'll be able to rent the game and then export the songs for a smaller price is an idiot.

You'll have to pay for the whole game to export the songs.

What a waste of a thread.

no ... not true. if there is an export key available ... then you could rent and export for a fee. just like RB1.

[PurgeTheseDays]

no ... not true. if there is an export key available ... then you could rent and export for a fee. just like RB1.

no...not true. The export code is there because theres not an option to do it for a smaller fee....just like the track packs

[cherokeesam]

Everybody who keeps quoting RB1 needs to step back and take a look at that for a moment.....RB1 was a *unique* situation. When it came out, HMX didn't even know if there was gonna BE an RB2, and certainly didn't build in any plans to export the RB1 tracks over to a potential sequel (it had simply never been done before). But by the time they realized they had a hit on their hands, and RB2 came out, and HMX dedicated themselves to the music platform concept, then there was obviously no way to install a one-shot code in the (already shipped) RB1 units.

LEGO, on the other hand, is being released with plans BEFOREHAND to make the tracks exportable to RB2. So you know *damn well* that they're taking the time to install a one-shot export code on that puppy.

[dragonflyr]

Everybody who keeps quoting RB1 needs to step back and take a look at that for a moment.....RB1 was a *unique* situation. When it came out, HMX didn't even know if there was gonna BE an RB2, and certainly didn't build in any plans to export the RB1 tracks over to a potential sequel (it had simply never been done before). But by the time they realized they had a hit on their hands, and RB2 came out, and HMX dedicated themselves to the music platform concept, then there was obviously no way to install a one-shot code in the (already shipped) RB1 units.

LEGO, on the other hand, is being released with plans BEFOREHAND to make the tracks exportable to RB2. So you know *damn well* that they're taking the time to install a one-shot export code on that puppy.

thanks for clarifying. makes sense now.

then ... it appears they're gonna give us no choice but to buy the game. cuz i have a hard time believing a code would be provided ( or useable many times) with a rental copy.

(btw ... i never bought a track pack .. so was unaware on how the export worked. i kept thinking RB1 export key. sorry . . . )

[Ehfahq]

Is renting and exporting RB1 unethical? I dont know. But I do know a HMX dev suggested it us on this very site.

Was it unethical for 3 of my friends to borrow my RB1 disc and get 55 songs for 5bucks? I dont know.

And I honestly dont care if anybody in this threads thinks it is.

[BigBadZ2k6]

But didn't HMX say that the songs on Lego RB would eventually become DLC??

[Headcase]

If they charge an import fee, no.

[sperine]

Personally, I'm going to want to play through the whole game on-disc, but assuming all or most songs are exportable and assuming there is a one-time use code a la 20 free DLC or AC/DC, I will trade it back in when I am finished with the game. With AC/DC, I had already beat through the game on the disc to get the achievements, so when I wanted the tracks for RB2, I bought the game from Wal-Mart, went out to my car, stripped it of its code, and drove up the street to GameStop to trade it. HMX still gets my money, and I get my songs. Sounds pretty fair to me.

[Bullseye]

From where I sit, the export code on a rental copy is out there for any one that's willing to pay the licensing fees...the right to use the music was already negotiated by HMX and paid for when Blockbuster bought the disc. The re-licensing fee is paid by the person that redeems the code. Are you cheating Blockbuster out of it's chance to redeem the code...sure, but Blockbuster is not going to use that code. My Blockbuster doesn't have a ton of used copies to sell (actually I've never seen a used GH or RB game at the only store within 10 miles of my house). Are you cheating HMX out of money? Well, technically all game rentals are cheating them out of a sale. As for resale, buyer beware. If it's a used copy, one must be aware that the codes are most likely already used. I got burned picking up a "Brand new" , "sealed" AC/DC track pack from "a reputable store" on eBay. Am I ticked off that I got burned? yep, but it was a gamble. So is it unethical? Probably. Would I lose sleep over it. Nope.

[Kariodude]

I'm betting it will be like GH5. You use a one time export code and then pay for it. They aren't going to let people just rent it for 5 bucks then get the songs for 5 bucks. You can pretty much guarantee that. But I also doubt it will just be a one time use code that's free like the track packs because this game will have a lot more songs than just a track pack.

[Lone Bulldogs]

So to the OP, if some random person on the Rock Band Forums says it's unethical, will that stop you?

[cherokeesam]

But didn't HMX say that the songs on Lego RB would eventually become DLC??

Don't know if HMX has confirmed/denied this, but I'd say it probably will be available as DLC at a later date....that's the way things have worked so far, what with "timed exclusives" on track packs and Unplugged and whatnot.

Still, those who buy LRB at launch and export will get to enjoy those songs a lot quicker than those who wait a few months for them. Depends on your threshold for patience and/or playing video games with LEGO minifigs.

[TurboStitchCW]

guess i'm just an oddball in the fact that i dont mind actually paying for a good product??? I'm just happy HMX has made it exportable so I can add it too my library. Funny how so many talk about how much they love HMX and complain if something isnt exportable, but are the first to line up to rip them off if they can....

I feel the same way about this whole thing. I buy and keep my copy of all of the games I buy.

[OrdealByFire]

they SHOULD charge a fee. i wouldn't want them to because i plan on buying the game, but people like you make me sick.

after all HMX has done for us.

[TurboStitchCW]

either that, or the rental places can sign an agreement that states that they are not allowed to release the booklet until it comes time to sell the pre-played games, then they can pack the booklet with the game. :)

[T-Hybrid]

But didn't HMX say that the songs on Lego RB would eventually become DLC??
No. HMX has made zero comment regarding exportability or DLC for LEGO.

And no, I do not count "No comment".

[DeadManDrumming]

they SHOULD charge a fee. i wouldn't want them to because i plan on buying the game, but people like you make me sick.

after all HMX has done for us.

Eerrr. I bought the game AND I have over 350+ DLC. So that is roughly 800 dollars invested into the game. (two bucks per son IIRC w/ RB1 bought and RB2.) Plus countless times the instruments *broke* on me and I re-bought because damn this game is too good.

HMX is a *game* company. Without *me* or *you* buying their games *they* wouldn't be here.

[Pyrettablaze]

I thought that, at least Blockbuster, pulled RB1 from the shelf once RB2 came out so one could not do this exact thing?

[newmanator]

But didn't HMX say that the songs on Lego RB would eventually become DLC??

I think they had 'no comment' on that situation. But I wonder if there will be any songs we won't be able to export such as Paranoid etc off rb1.

[T-Hybrid]

I thought that, at least Blockbuster, pulled RB1 from the shelf once RB2 came out so one could not do this exact thing?
No. If it got pulled from shelves it was because nobody was renting it.

Whatever the case, it's not illegal. Nor is it unethical. If you rent LEGO and are playing it, and the exportation feature is available...you have rented your game and thus have access to whatever is on the disc.

If you purchase your export license and then return the game once your rental period is up...you have violated no law. There's is nothing unethical here.

I will however, go ahead and say I TOLD YOU SO. When people were aruging for LEGO to be exportable, I suggested it was becaues they want to just rent it and rip the songs. Sure enough...

[Parodygm]

Check your moral compass. It knows.

What if it's permanently stuck 30 degrees south of Bad Mamma Jamma?

[slickpitt]

Well I'm sure I'm in the same boat as a lot. If there's an export code in the manual for a 1-time deal, then I'll just miss out.

If you can rent it and pay a fee($20 or whatever) to export, then I'll happily do that. But I'm not paying $50 for a game I'll never play(I just don't get the Lego thing) just to get a few songs from it. I certainly won't be paying $50 AND paying a fee for export.

Of course this is all pure speculation... who knows how it will actually work.

[DMBillies]

if harmonix does the export key thing, then i'll rent the disc.

if it is a 1 time use code, I'll buy the disc. :/

as far as ethics go in the first scenario, I don't see how it's wrong.
Sure, I'm not buying the game, but I'm still paying for the export key.

I'm quoting this relatively old post as an example of my point on this...

The export key (which have cost just a few bucks in the past) is a simple way for HMX to make a little additional money for the additional time/labor involved in making the songs exportable. As I recall, AC/DC didn't even cost additional money to export but it was a 1-time export (and my memory is bad, so it may have cost a couple bucks too).

The point here, is that when you are paying, what you are paying for is the ability to specifically export songs you have already paid for and own as part of the main game. I'm sure if HMX could easily prevent people from "renting 'n' rippin'" they'd do it, but obviously even a 1-time code won't stop a lot of people.

HMX is doing a service to the fans by allowing exports to begin with (for a pittance) and it kind of pisses me off that everyone is always trying to buck the system and then rationalize their bad behavior.

Disk songs are also "heavily discounted" even if you pay full price for a brand new game... if you want to see HMX succeed using a business model that is very consumer friendly (as opposed to GH's system), perhaps you should consider not doing this.

[cherokeesam]

I will however, go ahead and say I TOLD YOU SO. When people were aruging for LEGO to be exportable, I suggested it was becaues they want to just rent it and rip the songs. Sure enough...

I was ALWAYS going to buy the game, export or no. It's a LEGO game; my kid has ALL LEGO games, toys, etc; and he'd luh-huv this one, too.

I asked for export because I wanted the ability to play the songs without having to resort to LEGO minifigs.

There's plenty of others like me.

[Dragonclaw]

Exactly...How many tracks are on Lego:RB? Probably at LEAST 45...with a retail of $49 that's just the other side of $1 per track. Even if you don't like LEGO its cheaper per track than any of the track packs out there so why post the myriad of "hope I can get the setlist on the cheap"...especially on the board run by the company you're hoping to get their work without paying for...

Export is a PLUS...it makes it the equivalent of any of the 20 song ($30) track packs so you can choose to play the Lego side of things, bring them over to RB2...or do both since I'm sure the game has it's own merits :) Abusing the export as a way to get something for nothing is a great way to ensure they end the feature and makes the rest of us, who feel like the company's efforts are worth paying for...lose out in the future. If YOU don't feel their worth it, than you shouldn't bother with trying to get the songs for nothing OR complain about not having them.

[DeadManDrumming]

I would probably rip it since it could have just became DLC instead of its own game. =/

[gabrielca]

I will however, go ahead and say I TOLD YOU SO. When people were aruging for LEGO to be exportable, I suggested it was becaues they want to just rent it and rip the songs. Sure enough...

Nice wide paint brush you got there...

BTW I own ACDC, never played it, only exported it. Lego will be the same.

[taylorlee]

The big question to me is going to be if the songs will get marked to Downloaded, or get added to their own category on the song select screen underneath Rock Band, titled "LEGO Rock Band", with an "L" to denote it from the rest of the tracks.

I think GH had a combo of using a code, then paying for a license, so I'm pretty sure HMX will be doing something similar.

[echo4papa]

HMX is doing a service to the fans by allowing exports to begin with (for a pittance) and it kind of pisses me off that everyone is always trying to buck the system and then rationalize their bad behavior.

Disk songs are also "heavily discounted" even if you pay full price for a brand new game... if you want to see HMX succeed using a business model that is very consumer friendly (as opposed to GH's system), perhaps you should consider not doing this.

I used to think this way as well, but HMX is not doing a service to the fans by allowing exports, they are making their product more attractive to the fans to increase sales and profits. They do what they can to maximize profits, and as a consumer, short of illegal activites, I see no reason why we shouldn't do what we can to maximize our dollar.

I would agree that being able to rent a game and use a one time only code from the manual to export is something that should not be allowed, as it takes something away from that disc that is outside the scope of renting the game, that manual and code should be saved as part of the resale value of the game by the company renting it out. However, if it's set up like RB1 where you can pay a nominal fee and download the content from the internet, then I see no reason why people who are uninterested in RB:Lego should be blasted for renting the game, paying the fee, and downloading content from HMX.

If that sends the signal to HMX that RB:Lego is not a money maker, but people will pay for even more DLC/Track Packs, then that is a good thing, because that is what we want.

[Lord_Mhoram]

I would agree that being able to rent a game and use a one time only code from the manual to export is something that should not be allowed, as it takes something away from that disc that is outside the scope of renting the game, that manual and code should be saved as part of the resale value of the game by the company renting it out. However, if it's set up like RB1 where you can pay a nominal fee and download the content from the internet, then I see no reason why people who are uninterested in RB:Lego should be blasted for renting the game, paying the fee, and downloading content from HMX.


This is just a store thing at the Blockbuster I work at (primarly because of me), we cut out the codes from games that have them, and store them in the backroom. If you rent a game with manual, you don't get the code. We put it back in when we sell the thing used.

[oogabooha]

There is nothing unethical about it, you are breaking no law.

You paid the money to rent, and if it is like that, then it is, it is HMX's fault for making the system like this.

[imdwalrus05]

If that sends the signal to HMX that RB:Lego is not a money maker, but people will pay for even more DLC/Track Packs, then that is a good thing, because that is what we want.

That may be what YOU want, but judging from the continued success of Guitar Hero, that's not what a lot of people are in the market for. The DLC isn't a sustainable model in the long run anyway; as people gradually lose interest and the game leaves shelves (as it's already beginning to do - how many stores have the bundles marked down drastically?), the profits from DLC will fall off. Retail titles are necessary to keep the franchise in the public eye and to ensure that the platform lives on. Both pieces are necessary.


There is nothing unethical about it, you are breaking no law.

Ethics and laws aren't the same thing, especially if the law itself is unethical.

[Kariodude]

There is nothing unethical about it, you are breaking no law.

You paid the money to rent, and if it is like that, then it is, it is HMX's fault for making the system like this.

Unethical and illegal are completely different things.

And your last sentences just SCREAMS unethical.

[Doc_SoCal]

Thieves are usually the best rationalizers.

[DarkHeartsDie]

this is stupid asking if it's ethical or unethical, if it's an export code in the manual, i'm not buying, if it's a license you buy from the PSN store, i'll buy the license and rent the game, i'm not wasting $50 on lego rock band when i could add another $10 to that to buy call of duty modern warfare 2, if you think it's unethical, go out and buy it, if you don't care, buy the license, and export the songs, if it's a code, well then you'll just have to find a way to get the code somehow

there is no ethnically with any of this, it's just a game, do what you want, don't listen to what a bunch of idiots tell you whats right and whats wrong, decide for yourself

[californication]

It is.

But that didn't stop me from doing it with Guitar Hero Smash Hits. :o

[imdwalrus05]

this is stupid asking if it's ethical or unethical, if it's an export code in the manual, i'm not buying, if it's a license you buy from the PSN store, i'll buy the license and rent the game, i'm not wasting $50 on lego rock band when i could add another $10 to that to buy call of duty modern warfare 2, if you think it's unethical, go out and buy it, if you don't care, buy the license, and export the songs, if it's a code, well then you'll just have to find a way to get the code somehow

there is no ethnically with any of this, it's just a game, do what you want, don't listen to what a bunch of idiots tell you whats right and whats wrong, decide for yourself

"Ethnically?" What does this have to do with race? :confused:

I'm also a little confused as to why we're comparing a band game or a Lego title (take your pic) with Trendy New FPS. Either way, it's your loss. Of course, since I'm just part of a bunch of idiots (apparently for not agreeing with your questionable at best world view), you don't care what I say anyway...

[Crownjo]

I just wonder if the two queen songs will be one song as we will rock you / we are the champions

HMX does combine songs sometimes so it makes sense right?

I'm hoping they are combined.

[DELTAsnake]

I hope it's not a code in the manual. There are a lot of people that buy a game from EB, enter the codes for Marketplace DLC and then return the game using the 7 day return policy, then EB puts the game back on the shelf and sells it as new.

[jimbury]

Troy Powers (PSN: TroyPowers) @ Apr 21st 2009 12:49PM:

I'm so sick of these corny games. All of you people should just learn to play with REAL Legos. says it all for me.

[Crownjo]

or you can ignore me and let me rot. D:

[newmanator]

It is.

But that didn't stop me from doing it with Guitar Hero Smash Hits. :o

I believe that GH SH was $59.99 for pretty much the same amount of songs so I suppose Lego RB will be a lot cheaper to buy and export in total.

[DMBillies]

I used to think this way as well, but HMX is not doing a service to the fans by allowing exports, they are making their product more attractive to the fans to increase sales and profits.
They are not increasing sales and profits if people are taking advantage of a cheap export code to basically rip them off. The renting and ripping of RB1 I am not entirely against because they leveraged that as a means to increase sales of RB2 at the end of RB1's lifecycle ("hey, buy RB2, rent RB1, and you get a huge library of songs right off the bat).

That said, 1) there is no reason to think that L:RB's export will not be a one-time code, and 2) the code will be put out at the beginning of the games lifecycle. This means that HMX is taking a significant risk of losing sales to rent-and-rip "exporting" by giving its customers a much-requested feature. The fact that you may pay a small fee in order to do it (I actually don't expect there will be one) does not entitle you to an entire game of songs for $5. I'm sorry, but I don't think it is ethical, in the least, to export these songs if you do not intend to ever own the game. Besides, why stiff a company that puts out a good product and that works hard to incorporate a consumer-friendly feature?


if it's set up like RB1 where you can pay a nominal fee and download the content from the internet, then I see no reason why people who are uninterested in RB:Lego should be blasted for renting the game, paying the fee, and downloading content from HMX.
They would be extraordinarily dumb to set it up like RB1... but, the reason it is not ok is that the price of the export is not NEARLY sufficiently high enough to pay HMX for the amount of work they have done in charting those songs. DLC is $2 per track. If the export is $5, then HMX is seeing < $.09 per song. If the export is a free, one-time deal, then the person is getting them for free. In both cases, a person is getting an entire games worth of content for an absolute pittance that clearly screws HMX out of a LOT of money.

So, the solution is that HMX stops exporting or increases the price for an export to a level that makes it unattractive for the people that actually buy the disk. Should I have to pay $70 or $80 for a game + export just because some wankers want to get something for nothing.


If that sends the signal to HMX that RB:Lego is not a money maker, but people will pay for even more DLC/Track Packs, then that is a good thing, because that is what we want.
So "stealing" from the company is supposed to send them a message to give you more DLC for the same game (at a higher price/song then just buying L:RB) and is supposed to get them to release track packs (which export too, and can therefore be ripped off the same way)? What exactly is the advantage for us or them.

[ant423]

For RB1, I borrowed it from my cousin, bought the export key online, and gave the game back to him once the songs were exported. It was no big deal.

If Lego uses an export key, then by all means rent it. If it uses a code, then that's a different story.

[dalcyte]

How about you just read the threads on the same topic regarding RB1 and save us another 100 threads for this game.

How bout you stop throwing a hissy fit over one thread that really isn't doing much to you?

Sorry. People in this forum can really let their snide-y sides show.

Well, I would say its not entirely unethical, but I would get the game just because i feel bad. But of course i have a Wii...