real drummers

[cuddie]

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"that video is not even close to actully playing drums...im sorry...ur talknig to a drummer here and if u can play drums u can play that game really well but not vise-versa"
what my friend said after seeing the video for azuritereaction playing AJFA.

My question to you real drummers is: do you agree?

[ChaosElement]

I don't agree. The only thing unrealistic about the Rock Band drums is the positioning of the pads, the lack of pads and there not being any high hat pedal, otherwise it's pretty darn close. Enough to teach you the basics.

The only thing you might have trouble is the way the RB drums always switch the pads, as in, one second the blue is a tom, and the next a ride cymbal. That's unrealistic.

[NattyLight]

I don't agree. The only thing unrealistic about the Rock Band drums is the positioning of the pads, and that's pretty major, otherwise, it's fine.

There are many more things to hit on a real drum set and you also have another pedal for the high hat. The fact that it doesn't matter how hard or soft you hit the pads makes it plenty different as well.

[ChaosElement]

There are many more things to hit on a real drum set and you also have another pedal for the high hat. The fact that it doesn't matter how hard or soft you hit the pads makes it plenty different as well.

I did say the high hat pedal in my edit. And the basic drum kit is (in my opinion):

High Hat
High Hat pedal
Snare
2 Toms
A floor tom
Crash Cymbal
Ride Cymbal
Bass drum (pedal and skin)

Sure, you hit a lot more things in a real drum set, but Rock Band is teaching you the basics, as well as limb independence. Two very important aspects of drumming.

And yep, you're right about the intensity of strikes.

[NattyLight]

It does a good job at teaching you limb independence but if you you won't be playing real drums. Aside from Maps, try to play any of the songs on the game on a real drum kit and see if they sound anything like the album version.

[Wanny]

Well I have 1 week experience of drum in my life and I can do And justice for all on expert. I never touched a single drum in my life before. I feel like Idevelopped rythem alot and also leg/arms beat independance.

But I do think that I wouldn't be good on real drums, I can't make beats myself. I'm just good at following those colorful dots and lines spamming the screen. :P

[ChaosElement]

It does a good job at teaching you limb independence but if you you won't be playing real drums. Aside from Maps, try to play any of the songs on the game on a real drum kit and see if they sound anything like the album version.

Songs that don't use a lot of variety in the pads and stay strict to a specific pattern (I.E. Suffragette City) will be easy to bring out on a real drum kit. Songs like And Justice For All which have a crazy amount of variety, you'll have to sit down and figure out when the pads switch positions. It's definitely possible, but you'll have to figure out when the blue is a tom, or a ride, and when the green is a floor tom, or a crash. Anything like that.

Bottom line, it's possible, if you're willing to try.

[shadus]

My buddy who's a moderately skilled drummer says, "It teaches the most of the basics and if I had to teach someone to play a set and had to choose between someone who took some percussion in high school band and someone who could play rock band on expert I'd take the guy who can play rock band on expert."

I think its a real pity the guitar isn't particularly useful for learning guitar. It increases hand eye coordination and finger speed and accuracy but leaves out a lot more useful skills than the drum. Be a lot more useful for learning guitar if it was even something like...

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Regardless, it's a lot of fun on both. Wonder if the pianowizard people will take the drum idea and make a set to learn to play drums on like they've done for piano and (are presently working on) guitar (I don't consider the "i can play..." products useful for teens+ the songs suck.)

[NattyLight]

Songs that don't use a lot of variety in the pads and stay strict to a specific pattern (I.E. Suffragette City) will be easy to bring out on a real drum kit. Songs like And Justice For All which have a crazy amount of variety, you'll have to sit down and figure out when the pads switch positions. It's definitely possible, but you'll have to figure out when the blue is a tom, or a ride, and when the green is a floor tom, or a crash. Anything like that.

Bottom line, it's possible, if you're willing to try.

Yea, I should've added that a LOT of songs (literally almost half of radio hits) have the same repetitive beat. If you can play on expert, you can play stuff like Blitzkrieg Bop and every nickleback song. That said, without ever playing rock band or drums, you can learn slow songs (black hole sun, Like a Stone) after 5 minutes of learning the standard rock beat.

[ChaosElement]

Yea, I should've added that a LOT of songs (literally almost half of radio hits) have the same repetitive beat. If you can play on expert, you can play stuff like Blitzkrieg Bop and every nickleback song. That said, without ever playing rock band or drums, you can learn slow songs (black hole sun, Like a Stone) after 5 minutes of learning the standard rock beat.

Exactly.

So, to the OP, Rock Band is a pretty good simulation, but it could use more pads and some better positioning.

And yes, you can learn your fair share of drums from it, at least, as far as the hardware will allow

[ChaosElement]

Regardless, it's a lot of fun on both. Wonder if the pianowizard people will take the drum idea and make a set to learn to play drums on like they've done for piano and (are presently working on) guitar (I don't consider the "i can play..." products useful for teens+ the songs suck.)

Well, they've got Iron Man by Black Sabbath (looked at the site) but otherwise it looks pretty dumb.

[fusion_kb]

I started seriously trying to learn drums (bought an electric kit for now to keep noise down) about 3 months before the game came out. So I am kind of a middle man in this situation.

While the setup of the game's kit is no where near correct (Im so tempted to remove the bars from the bottom and do a foot pedal mod), the game DOES help you learn some rudimentary drum skills quite well.

Playing the real drums and teaching myself, i was getting kind of stuck. Especially on things like (forgive my non-knowledge on proper terms) fitting a kick between two hi hat hits, or not hitting the hi hat twice on a double kick. Just recently (after playing through most of the game on hard) I find myself MUCH better at those two techniques on real drums. So if anything, the game can definitely teach you the basics.

It cant teach you the proper way to do rolls (or at least doesn't try well), and it doesn't teach you the high hat pedal. As a side note though, many times in the game, you will hit the blue pad instead of the yellow for a moment to at least represent that the high hat pedal is open.

Bottom line, the game can REALLY help a beginner, and help you get some robot rhythm. But it does not have the feeling of a real instrument, and a pro drummer (with decent game hardware) should kick the games ass.

BTW, Currently stuck on Vasoline on hard ;)

[the_spike]

False, one of my friends who was a drummer before the game learned a lot of the songs in there and can play them on a real set thanks to the game.

[ChaosElement]

I started seriously trying to learn drums (bought an electric kit for now to keep noise down) about 3 months before the game came out. So I am kind of a middle man in this situation.

While the setup of the game's kit is no where near correct (Im so tempted to remove the bars from the bottom and do a foot pedal mod), the game DOES help you learn some rudimentary drum skills quite well.

Playing the real drums and teaching myself, i was getting kind of stuck. Especially on things like (forgive my non-knowledge on proper terms) fitting a kick between two hi hat hits, or not hitting the hi hat twice on a double kick. Just recently (after playing through most of the game on hard) I find myself MUCH better at those two techniques on real drums. So if anything, the game can definitely teach you the basics.

It cant teach you the proper way to do rolls (or at least doesn't try well), and it doesn't teach you the high hat pedal. As a side note though, many times in the game, you will hit the blue pad instead of the yellow for a moment to at least represent that the high hat pedal is open.

Bottom line, the game can REALLY help a beginner, and help you get some robot rhythm. But it does not have the feeling of a real instrument, and a pro drummer (with decent game hardware) should kick the games ass.

BTW, Currently stuck on Vasoline on hard ;)

Congrats on the electric drum kit by the way. (Can you give a link/experience as to which model you have? I'm looking into one and would appreciate some insight)

And what you're talking about is limb independence, which I said Rock Band helps you with very well, and that's evident with you :P

Well, rolls is sort of something you'll have to either learn yourself, or learn off somewhere else. I agree that it doesn't exactly tell you how to do it.

And yeah, I noticed the blue for the high hat pedal, particularly in Tom Sawyer Expert.

It's okay as far as feeling goes though, enough to sort of get the sensation, but a real drum kit will always feel different and 'better'.

[fusion_kb]

This would be my drumset that I picked up. Kept it cheap since I was a beginner.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Yamaha-DTXplorer-Electronic-Drum-Set?sku=490906
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/regular/3/4/5/540345.jpg

The pads are decent (only 1 Zone pads), but I might recommend something else to an experienced player because after playing it a while I noticed the Hi Hat pedal is not as responsive as I would like. Kick pad, and included pedal work fine for me. Tons of sounds. So for a beginner its great.

If I had my choice, i would replace all the pads with Roland V Drum pads like the following:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Roland-PD85-Mesh-Dual-Zone-V-Drum-Trigger-Pad?sku=449936

Two zones to hit would be nice to have, especially for rim shots and getting some variance on the crash (aside from velocity, which on my kit only changes the volume essentially).

Pretty nice kit for only 700 bucks though, and its pretty compact. I guess, if you have the money, something like http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Roland-TD6SW-VTour-Electronic-Drum-Set?sku=447839
would be pretty dang nice. Then if you wanted the mesh pads you could replace them one by one as needed.

Best bet is to find a Guitar Center or other music store that has one and try it out. Pay attention to the kits Brain also. I bought the Yamaha because of the shear number of drum samples in the brain.


Ohhh! Found a youtube of some guy playing my kit. Ignore the crappy instruments they are just for practice. Sounds like hes just playing with one of the general acoustic sound sets here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUKPED7IsRs&feature=related

another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajX1Yx5aXdU

[Renegade1007]

My buddy who's a moderately skilled drummer says, "It teaches the most of the basics and if I had to teach someone to play a set and had to choose between someone who took some percussion in high school band and someone who could play rock band on expert I'd take the guy who can play rock band on expert."

I think its a real pity the guitar isn't particularly useful for learning guitar. It increases hand eye coordination and finger speed and accuracy but leaves out a lot more useful skills than the drum. Be a lot more useful for learning guitar if it was even something like...

|[][][]|
|[][][]|
|[][][]|
|[][][]|

Regardless, it's a lot of fun on both. Wonder if the pianowizard people will take the drum idea and make a set to learn to play drums on like they've done for piano and (are presently working on) guitar (I don't consider the "i can play..." products useful for teens+ the songs suck.)

Hehe....It may not be great for learning regular guitar but the Finger Speed thing has really helped my saxophone playing.....Thats just a side note....

On with the subject, I always tried to play the school set when I was in High School but I always had limb independence problems but I definately think that rock Band helps with that.....and also, if you are already familiar with a Trap set (forgive me, I'm somewhat of a Jazz Nut), then it shouldn't be too hard to translate the track from the RB hardware (which reminds me of a Quad Practice Pad with a Kick Pedal) to a real set

[Paradox]

I think the biggest hurdle would be when sitting down in front of a drum set after playing Rock band, not getting too overwhelmed with a real drum set being in front of you.

You are already learning HOW you go about playing the drums. Is it going to teach you how to play this song or that song..not all the time. Is it teaching you independence, movement, posture, rhythm, synchronization...yes it is. Those are all things real drummers learn and of course, its going to be impossible for someone who just played a drum for the first time when they got Rock Band to jump off the game and go play Enter Sandman or Tom Sawyer or something on a real kit...those drummers have been doing what they do for MANY years..duh!

All in all, you're getting the tools to become a drummer, the only part left is you wanting to work to become better. Theres no need for there to be a hi-hat pedal because the point isn't playing specific instruments, its about staying in time, being able to move to different things and do different things with each limb at the same time....you've got the skills now, sharpen them!

[Wanny]

BTW, Currently stuck on Vasoline on hard ;)

Hey me too I had a hard time with Vasoline on Hard. Best trick I can give you is to "think" about hitting your arms alternated with you legs. So hit legs, but keep in mind you need to be alternated. Sometimes when I tell myself "Don't hit the pads at the same time of your legs noob!" well I don't. Also when I stomp the kick pedal, it makes a boom sound on the ground and help me having an alternated beat between leg and arms.

My trick :D

[macafied]

False, one of my friends who was a drummer before the game learned a lot of the songs in there and can play them on a real set thanks to the game.

I think you missed the point of this thread.

[CENACHAINGANG54]

Exactly.

So, to the OP, Rock Band is a pretty good simulation, but it could use more pads and some better positioning.

And yes, you can learn your fair share of drums from it, at least, as far as the hardware will allow

True. And as a pro drummer who owns a huge set, I would say being a drummer and playing this game can sometimes be a problem. See most drummers play by feel. So in some songs I can hear where a bass beat should be and I will inadvertly press the bass pedal. I also have reached for a cymbal knowing one is not there.

Harmonix stated that you can take a person who cannot play drums and they could learn from it. Well that is true. My 11 year old although he has a pro for a father, never wanted to play drums until this game. He has never touched a drum in his life.

Now he is playing on medium and is able to get atleast a 93% on all of the songs he has played! It is teaching him limb seperation and independence. So as he progresses I will put him behind my set and see if he can either duplicate any beats from the game, or is able to make and carry a beat of his own.