Fan Cap Woes - How Much Hard Needed?

[HMXDave]

So, my roommate and I have been playing through Band World Tour on Medium. He's better than me on the drums and I am much better than him on the guitar/bass.

We're up to the Hall of Fame Induction, but haven't attempted it yet. We hit the Medium fan cap long ago.

Some venues are now forcing us to pick Hard on individual songs. (I'm looking at you Coheed & Cambria.) Not to mention all the venues that need more fans to unlock.

I can handle guitar on Hard, even a bit of bass on Expert, but my roommate can't play Hard drums other than the first tier and a few bonus songs. I'm sure he'll get better in time, but we're about to hit the wall.

If we focus on easier songs using the create setlists on Hard, will be able to aquire enough fans to unlock some of the other venues? I don't care if we don't unlock EVERYTHING, but I want to do most of it.

Like the Endless Setlist. We have to get up to 600 stars to unlock it. Is it even possible to reach 600 stars using only the venues/sets available on Medium? How much Hard are we going to have to do?

Thanks for any answers.

[BornToBeWild]

Yes, that is how we did that, just over 600,00 fans now !!

[espher]

You can get 600 stars without hitting hard venues, yes.

[Bluvox]

You can get 600 stars without hitting hard venues, yes.

Yup, we have the endless set list opened to us with just doing things on medium. We're trying a few things on Hard, but not anywhere to the point where we can close out any venues yet.

[HMXDave]

Thanks guys. That makes me feel better.

I guess I can give my roommate a while longer to improve his hard drum skills before I bring in a ringer.

[espher]

Thanks guys. That makes me feel better.

I guess I can give my roommate a while longer to improve his hard drum skills before I bring in a ringer.

I will say that I have discovered that hard drums are hard, so he'll probably need that time. ;)

[Bobble]

They really should patch this, it's stupid to force people to play on Expert to fully experience the game, my band got 600k fans easily playing on hard already and we're not even far into the cities, can't play stadiums or anything yet, they should make it so you can see the full game no matter what you play on but you get less fans throughout. Forcing people to drum on expert is bull, hard is already hard enough and I'm trying to get my band's drummer to pick up a real drumset cause he's already basically playing them, but expert is too hard for normal gamers, this game isn't like GH where the skills used to play on expert weren't ones like the ones used to play a real guitar.

Drumming and Singing on hard take some serious accuracy with tones and rhythm and singing on expert you have to really be able to sing. Being the only singer in the band I can't play expert on guitar and sing, I don't know these songs well enough and am just honestly not coordinated enough when I'm focusing on hard guitar parts lol.

[HMXDave]

Wait, the hard fan cap is 600,000?

How many venues are still locked when you hit that cap?

I didn't even realize that it forces you to play on Expert! That is kinda bullsht.

Why even have a hard cap? Expert should be completely optional.

Come on HMX, this is still a video game. We're not actually becoming rock stars.

There is a reason that video games name the hardest difficulty something like Expert, Legendary, Insane, or Suicidal. It's because most people can't play at that level.

[Lareden]

Wait, the hard fan cap is 600,000?

How many venues are still locked when you hit that cap?

I didn't even realize that it forces you to play on Expert! That is kinda bullsht.

Why even have a hard cap? Expert should be completely optional.

Come on HMX, this is still a video game. We're not actually becoming rock stars.

There is a reason that video games name the hardest difficulty something like Expert, Legendary, Insane, or Suicidal. It's because most people can't play at that level.

You can finish the BWT on medium, so no it doesn't force you to play above medium.

Hard unlocks a few shows (I think including the Endless set).

Expert unlocks a couple extra shows.

I like the fact that if I step up my game and get better, I'll unlock some extra content. It keeps me working towards something. This is not a terribly uncommon mechanic in games.

[HMXDave]

You can finish the BWT on medium, so no it doesn't force you to play above medium.

Hard unlocks a few shows (I think including the Endless set).

Expert unlocks a couple extra shows.

I like the fact that if I step up my game and get better, I'll unlock some extra content. It keeps me working towards something. This is not a terribly uncommon mechanic in games.

I see your point, but I still find it a bit frustrating. Not only would I have to improve to the point where I can play most songs on expert, but I would also have to wait until someone else improves to the same point.

Then, if I have a friend over who can only play on Medium, we have to forget about gaining any new fans.

The game should at least average the difficulties together when you play with multiple people. If I pick Expert bass and the drummer picks medium, we should get credit for doing it on hard. Or if the drums are on medium, guitar on hard, and vocals on easy, we should get credit for an average of medium.

[Ventura]

You can finish the BWT on medium, so no it doesn't force you to play above medium.

That's comforting. All I see it is refusing to let us play on city after city because we need more fans. How can we possibly be able to finish the tour when there are still so many places it won't let us go?

Youtube vids are full of Rock Band being a hit with the family. It's getting everyone involved. With that in mind, the majority of those who are going to play this game are never going to go anywhere near hard, much less expert.

The whole 'getting better to unlock content' thing works great in other games, but rules out all but the very devoted in Rock Band because this game isn't much like most others atall.

[Bobble]

You can finish the BWT on medium, so no it doesn't force you to play above medium.

Hard unlocks a few shows (I think including the Endless set).

Expert unlocks a couple extra shows.

I like the fact that if I step up my game and get better, I'll unlock some extra content. It keeps me working towards something. This is not a terribly uncommon mechanic in games.

The main issue is that they made the drumming akin to real life drumming. Sure the drum sets irl are more complex than 4 pads and a pedal, but the rhythm you have to maintain and the fact that you've often got to perform off rhythm and keep your different body parts at diff. rhythms, that's a lot like drumming on a real drum set. There's a thin line between having a fun game and forcing people to learn to play a real instrument to play your game. The cap shouldn't be something like 600k for hard, I got 600k doing my first few cities. Just the idea of having tons of fans is cool, playing the huge venues, that's cool. But like the guy said, when you consider how hard it is to sing and/or drum on expert, the notion should be entirely optional. Singing on expert requires highly accurate pitch which is not available to everyone clearly, drumming requires real technique and rhythm on expert, not to mention stamina, playing on expert should be entirely optional as the only 2 instruments most people can play on expert are guitar and bass, and the damned pack only came with one guitar to boot.

The reason most games do the mechanic of playing on harder diff. to unlock stuff is because most games don't require musical ability to play them. Simple rhythm ala Guitar Hero is one thing (and in GH games you could unlock everything on medium and hard), but drumming and singing require complex rhythms and accurate tones, most gamers will never be able to sing the way they need to in order to play on expert, I have trouble and I've been singing for a while. Most other games will simply be developing the reflexes and accuracy to play on higher levels, not developing a whole new set of skills not typically akin to gaming.

[HMXDave]

Thank you Bobble!


At least I'm not the only one who is not pleased with the way things are set up.

Patchy Patchy.

[G_tarRoCK3R]

Wait, the hard fan cap is 600,000?

How many venues are still locked when you hit that cap?

I didn't even realize that it forces you to play on Expert! That is kinda bullsht.

Why even have a hard cap? Expert should be completely optional.

Come on HMX, this is still a video game. We're not actually becoming rock stars.

There is a reason that video games name the hardest difficulty something like Expert, Legendary, Insane, or Suicidal. It's because most people can't play at that level.

Not true.....I have all the venues unlocked at the hard cap; So you are not FORCED to play expert. I did check out some of the gigs there and you can only play hard and expert on them. I don't know if there are gigs that are expert only.....Talking about the extra 10 venues after reaching the hard cap of course.

[HMXDave]

Ok. I am confused.

When you reach the hard cap of 600,000 fans, nothing is still locked?

[G_tarRoCK3R]

Ok. I am confused.

When you reach the hard cap of 600,000 fans, nothing is still locked?

I can double check now.....I'm pretty sure nothing is locked once you have 600,000 fans. Give me a few minutes.

Edit= Yes I have every venue unlocked, I have 705,000 fans. Hope that helps. :)

[Maggot_Brain]

You should be able to play the entire BWT on medium if you want to. (All venues, setlists, whatever.) There's quite a difficulty ramp up within each difficulty level already. The idea that everybody in real life can be a musician is silly and an unfortunate oversight. I hope it gets modified.

[G_tarRoCK3R]

You should be able to play the entire BWT on medium if you want to. (All venues, setlists, whatever.) There's quite a difficulty ramp up within each difficulty level already. The idea that everybody in real life can be a musician is silly and an unfortunate oversight. I hope it gets modified.

But you can play all of BWT on medium, the other 10 venues are just the harder songs in huge setlists.....

[HMXDave]

I can double check now.....I'm pretty sure nothing is locked once you have 600,000 fans. Give me a few minutes.

Edit= Yes I have every venue unlocked, I have 705,000 fans. Hope that helps. :)

Thank you very much.


The idea that everybody in real life can be a musician is silly and an unfortunate oversight.

I've seen enough live bands to know that's the truth! HA HA!

[sporkBrigade]

Okay, just clearing up some bad info in this thread.

Vast majority of venues and gigs playable at Medium, including all "core" gigs. Hall of Fame, Jets, Vans, etc.

All gigs unlockable and playable at Hard. You are NEVER required to play at Expert. There is a Hard fan cap of 600k, and there is nothing in the game that requires more fans then that. Tokyo is the highest, requiring around 580k fans or so. The only benifit Expert has is to push fans beyond 600k, and this is for sh**s and giggles only.

If you are at 600k and haven't unlocked some venues/gigs, this is due to one of two things. First, Star requirements. Just keep playing, and everything will eventually unlock. Second, "Core" gigs. Bodyguards, PR Firms, etc. To find out your next "Core" gig, just hit the Manager button and follow his instructions. It will always involve getting more Stars in a certain city. There is never a fan requirement for "Core" gigs, only stars and stars in certain cities.

Summary. To finish the "campaign", you never have to play above medium. To play "optional" gigs and venues past the end game, think Ruby Weapon, you have to play on Hard. You never are forced to play on Expert, except to gain fans into the millions and whore yourself on the leaderboards.

[Etapi1000]

I am still on the fence on the fan cap, I like the idea of the challenge, currently I am playing a mix of med/hard on vocals guitar until I get my full bundle. I have almost 600k fans, would have hit that already, but have been focusing on stars for the last few days. I love the challenge that the game throws at you, but not having played the drums, but still understanding the challenge there, I can see how the fan cap can hurt.

There is some tweaking needed here for sure to get the balance right.

All in all though, I love this game, I think it blows GH away, and I can't wait to see what else HMX has in store for us.

just saw your post after I posted this SporkBrigade. Thanks for the info, good to know. I am soloing right now, but my buddies will be playing when I get the bundle, there is no way any of them can play above medium right now, so nice to know that we can still finish BWT.

[HMXDave]

Summary. To finish the "campaign", you never have to play above medium. To play "optional" gigs and venues past the end game, think Ruby Weapon, you have to play on Hard. You never are forced to play on Expert, except to gain fans into the millions and whore yourself on the leaderboards.

Thanks for clearing that up. The fact that I won't have to play on Expert to unlock anything makes me feel better.

Hard is a challange I feel I can rise to meet. If I never get over 600k fans, whatever.

[sporkBrigade]

Thanks for clearing that up. The fact that I won't have to play on Expert to unlock anything makes me feel better.

Hard is a challange I feel I can rise to meet. If I never get over 600k fans, whatever.

I've always strongly believed that everyone who plays these games needs to do everything in their power to get to Hard. Hard is what this game is all about. Easy is cool, Medium is fantastic, Hard rocks your f***ing face off. Expert is another cool step in the right direction, but it's almost not as necessary. Hard is enough that you're pretty much playing every note that matters.

Anyway, I totally understand the debates on both sides when it comes to Hard. But Expert is totally not a factor, so I just like to make sure no one is sweating it.

[espher]

Oh Jesus Christ, not this discussion again. :p

It's OPTIONAL people. It's all FLUFF. Think of it as bonus content for playing on a higher difficulty.

[Bobble]

If that's the case, why the fan cap? They should just let us gain fans throughout. There are some things you can only play by playing on Expert and they're pretty cool setlists and venues imo. It's like it was said before, Expert should be an option, perhaps a couple of things that you can only play on expert, but the fans shouldn't cap. The "good band" I made with friends (the one where everyone plays on hard at the very least) just got their jet, and they're at the cap already...well before they got the jet really. If you're getting no fans, playing the gigs feels stupid, you get the stars but that number just sits and grows, hurray. Even getting money is stupid, I've bought pretty much all the instruments and gear I want, my char has multiple outfits that I switch with my mood, means nothing. But as you get more fans you start to feel cooler and more popular, if they really want to have expert content just keep it as it is for the most part, make it so fans don't cap but, make it so there are venues you can only play on expert and after having a certain amount of fans, so it doesn't matter how many fans you have or don't have, you have to play on expert for those few venues. Playing through all these setlists (they're particularly a pain if you've played solo tour and unlocked all songs, you get difficult songs in the mystery setlists) and getting $25, 0 fans and 5 stars = poot. We should gain fans to keep the illusion of being a cool band going. It almost seems pointless after you've gotten to fan cap to keep going. The ultimate fun of the game would be to have tons and tons of fans, and of course you'll only get like 2000000000000000000 million fans if you can play on Expert, but if you can play on hard, you should be able to get a least a few million, hell I've got 600k without going international or even finishing all the American cities.

[espher]

If that's the case, why the fan cap?

Because the fan cap is also fluff? It's the fluff they use to grant access to the other fluff?

[Parodygm]

The moment a band playing on Expert gets more fans than the entire population of the planet is the moment when I'm really going to laugh at the "remove the fan cap" crowd.

[sporkBrigade]

If that's the case, why the fan cap? They should just let us gain fans throughout. There are some things you can only play by playing on Expert and they're pretty cool setlists and venues imo. It's like it was said before, Expert should be an option, perhaps a couple of things that you can only play on expert, but the fans shouldn't cap. The "good band" I made with friends (the one where everyone plays on hard at the very least) just got their jet, and they're at the cap already...well before they got the jet really. If you're getting no fans, playing the gigs feels stupid, you get the stars but that number just sits and grows, hurray. Even getting money is stupid, I've bought pretty much all the instruments and gear I want, my char has multiple outfits that I switch with my mood, means nothing. But as you get more fans you start to feel cooler and more popular, if they really want to have expert content just keep it as it is for the most part, make it so fans don't cap but, make it so there are venues you can only play on expert and after having a certain amount of fans, so it doesn't matter how many fans you have or don't have, you have to play on expert for those few venues. Playing through all these setlists (they're particularly a pain if you've played solo tour and unlocked all songs, you get difficult songs in the mystery setlists) and getting $25, 0 fans and 5 stars = poot. We should gain fans to keep the illusion of being a cool band going. It almost seems pointless after you've gotten to fan cap to keep going. The ultimate fun of the game would be to have tons and tons of fans, and of course you'll only get like 2000000000000000000 million fans if you can play on Expert, but if you can play on hard, you should be able to get a least a few million, hell I've got 600k without going international or even finishing all the American cities.

I think it's very telling how you just blow off Stars as a number that just keeps sits there and grows. Isn't that what you want to turn Fans into?

Once you have a billion fans, you won't care so much about that number. It'll just sit there and grow. So why is it important to you to turn it into that? Just take a step back and realize how meaningless that number would become if you COULD get millions with little to no effort or skill, just time. It would be EXACTLY like stars.

If you want a number to go up based on the time you've played, start caring about your stars more. That's what they do, they grow over time. If you want to care about a number that's a reflection of difficulty as well as time played, then focus on your fans.

Personally, I couldn't care less about fans as a score or reflection of anything. Even with the caps, the only people who get high Fans tend to be those that have less people in their band. It's easier to pad Fans numbers, caps or no caps, by playing with 2 expert players. If they fix that flaw, probably by adding more Fan caps for smaller bands, then I'll listen to more arguements about how to make fans mean more. Right now fans are simply a game mechanic that balances difficulty and controls the unlocking of challenging setlists. It does it's job well.

And just another reminder, the game never requires expert. Never ever. Never ever ever. If you want to argue setlist difficulty, then don't use the word expert. It doesn't apply, ever.

[jrinck]

I will say that I have discovered that hard drums are hard, so he'll probably need that time. ;)

Tell me about it. I used to have a real drum set and thought I was moderately decent. I guess not after playing Rock Band drums on Hard. :D