Helter Skelter by the Beatles

[SisterRay]

Some people call it early metal or even proto-punk. Though I would not call it heavy metal but to be honest it's one of the first songs that I hear both metal and punk elements in the same song.

[ArmsAreLoud]

It's a great song, and certainly hard rock. Calling it metal is a ridiculous attempt to elevate the Beatles above what they are by saying they invented a genre.

[SisterRay]

It's a great song, and certainly hard rock. Calling it metal is a ridiculous attempt to elevate the Beatles above what they are by saying they invented a genre.

I read an interview by one of the members from the thrash metal band Testament calling "Helter Sketler" Heavy Metal. That's why I started this thread. I only hear elements of metal but I would not call it a full-on metal song. No way I am saying they invented metal either.

[ArmsAreLoud]

I love Testament, and respect their opinions, but that's still really silly.

Technically, the use of distortion is an "element" of heavy metal, so I could call just as easily call some Blues artists heavy metal as I can the Beatles.

[Teh_Jakester]

Helter Skelter is one of, if not THE, heaviest song of the 60s, but it's not metal.

Also, on the subject of song-quality: I would make love to Helter Skelter.

[afterstasis]

i think their most metal tune was definitely "i want you (she's so heavy)", and even that i'd call the furthest stretch of the term proto-metal that i'm personally able to imagine.

[dabears116]

Exactly what afterstasis said. Helter Skelter really just had heavy vocals, their heaviest song is definitely "I Want You (She's So Heavy) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne6ZZTfiQAw) (listen to 4:30+)

[SystemSCSnake]

Well back then it was definitely considered metal no doubt, however the genre has evolved and became alot more specific, or alot more focused as a really certain type of a music, the boarder has a become alot more specific on what is heavy metal and what is not. Heavy metal is metal in general, based on your views of metal it's probably not.

However Music defined, it still is. Hard Rock Is very similar however Helter Skelter has more heavy metal value then just hard rock. I Want You (She's So Heavy) is also metal despite it's Jazzy like verses.

[dabears116]

The term Heavy Metal wasn't even used until 1971 by media iirc. Look in the instrumentation, not the vocals for metal. I can definitely see why I Want You (She's So Heavy) could be called metal over Helter Skelter.

[ROCKBANDFANATIC7526]

Heavy Metal was first used in an album review for Humble Pie in the early 70's.

[clashcityrocker10]

It's a great song, and I can kinda see where you can draw parallels between it and metal, but it's not metal. Proto-punk is even more off the mark, if you ask me.

[dabears116]

Many say it was Sir Lord Baltimore's Kingdom Come.

[ROCKBANDFANATIC7526]

Also people seem to think BTBW was the first HM song.

[afterstasis]

not to imply the beatles ripped anyone off or anything, but blue cheer's "vincebus eruptem" was released about 9 months prior to the recording of "helter skelter".

[ROCKBANDFANATIC7526]

And then it goes back to 67's I Can See For Miles, which is not even close IMO.

[SisterRay]

And then it goes back to 67's I Can See For Miles, which is not even close IMO.

The Who track was the track that inspired "Helter Skelter". What's really funny the Beatles never heard the track but was inspired from a newspaper review of the Who track. So the Beatles really created "Helter Skelter" with nothing to base the sound on.

[Lithuanian_Boy]

also people seem to think btbw was the first hm song.

btbw?

[LegendofRock3021]

btbw?

Born to Be Wild.

[ROCKBANDFANATIC7526]

Born To Be Wild.

[afterstasis]

btbw?

between the buried and we.

[SisterRay]

Born To Be Wild.

No one really invents a genre on it's own. It just progresses but I don't think Born to Be Wild is anywhere near heavy metal but it's step towards metal.

[SystemSCSnake]

Did Nobody read my post? Music has changed, that was Heavy Metal back in the late 60's and most of the 70's. Nowadays it would be considered "Hard Rock" since Heavy Metal is seemingly suppose to be Death Metal, which everyone has seem to have forgotten was the term.

"thick, massive sound, characterized by highly amplified distortion, extended guitar solos, emphatic beats, and overall loudness" From wiki however, I don't need to do tons of research to prove that this is pretty much what Metal(Heavy Metal) is. Listen to Helter Skelter, sounds alot like these.

[dabears116]

Did Nobody read my post? Music has changed, that was Heavy Metal back in the late 60's and most of the 70's. Nowadays it would be considered "Hard Rock" since Heavy Metal is seemingly suppose to be Death Metal, which everyone has seem to have forgotten was the term.These proto-heavy metal songs would definitely be called psychelic rock, not hard rock.

[ROCKBANDFANATIC7526]

These proto-heavy metal songs would definitely be called psychelic rock, not hard rock.

I would say a mix of both, but not bands like The Kinks, The Who, and Steppenwolf.

[SystemSCSnake]

Well I suppose it could be proto-heavy metal...but I still disagree
it's not psychedelic*

[onidragon]

Ozzy himself said "Helter Skelter" influenced the Black Sabboth, and in turn, metal sound, but I don't think it'd pass for metal today. Hard rock, yeah, but not metal. As for proto-punk, I'd say "revolution" is more proto-punk than HS.

[LightningBolt]

Hard Rock.

[Julio_Strikes_Back]

Proto-metal. The only music I can construe as actual metal from the sixties is early Sabbath.

[dabears116]

Ozzy himself said "Helter Skelter" influenced the Black Sabboth, and in turn, metal sound, but I don't think it'd pass for metal today. Hard rock, yeah, but not metal. As for proto-punk, I'd say "revolution" is more proto-punk than HS.Proto-metal would be not considered hard rock today. Tell me what you would label the following songs as, besides proto-metal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDWH3hOP6q8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4-rhMjH-tI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OBs6S1lW_Q

[mercury11]

Some people call it early metal or even proto-punk. Though I would not call it heavy metal but to be honest it's one of the first songs that I hear both metal and punk elements in the same song.
Heavier songs existed before Helter Skelter

[SisterRay]

Heavier songs existed before Helter Skelter

That might be true but this is not who invented Heavy Metal. No one invents genres it progresses but I guess in the Pop realm "Helter Skelter" was even heavier than songs like "Born to Be Wild". "Everybody's Got Something to Hide" the song before "Helter Skelter" on the White Album might even be heavier.

[Teh_Jakester]

Proto-metal. The only music I can construe as actual metal from the sixties is early Sabbath.

They didn't release anything until 1970, so not even that counts.

[mercury11]

That might be true but this is not who invented Heavy Metal. No one invents genres it progresses but I guess in the Pop realm "Helter Skelter" was even heavier than songs like "Born to Be Wild". "Everybody's Got Something to Hide" the song before "Helter Skelter" on the White Album might even be heavier.

Why must the world of music and pop music be separated..

[afterstasis]

Why must the world of music and pop music be separated..

blame fergie.

[SisterRay]

Why must the world of music and pop music be separated..

Pop music is a genre of music but sometimes I think rock music is just a sub-genre of pop music for the most part unless it's death metal. Yeh for the most part I agree with you. But it helps because you can't really say an act like the Velvet Underground or the Beatles are really creating the same types of music for example.

[mercury11]

Pop music is a genre of music but sometimes I think rock music is just a sub-genre of pop music for the most part unless it's death metal. Yeh for the most part I agree with you. But it helps because you can't really say an act like the Velvet Underground or the Beatles are really creating the same types of music for example.

Wouldn't it be the other way around?

[Julio_Strikes_Back]

They didn't release anything until 1970, so not even that counts.

They were active and performing in 69 though.

[SisterRay]

Wouldn't it be the other way around?

Well pop music has been around a lot longer than rock music.

[dabears116]

In that sense (almost) all the music we listen to would be pop. Non-popular music then would be regional music then (tribal, Calypso, etc.) and noise and extremely experimental works (Merzbow, John Cage).

[SisterRay]

They were active and performing in 69 though.

Well think about this one of the last songs the Beatles recorded "I Want You She So Heavy" was recorded around the same time Led Zeppelin recorded "A Whole Lotta Love".

[Ramirez16]

It's really under a genre that only one song can be under and that's "Greatest Song of All Time".

[SisterRay]

In that sense (almost) all the music we listen to would be pop. Non-popular music then would be regional music then (tribal, Calypso, etc.) and noise and extremely experimental works (Merzbow, John Cage).

I agree. Many people have called Led Zeppelin a mainstream hard rock act. What is the difference between mainstream and pop? It's all in one big umbrella. In the end I do think it helps to have some labels. Someone like John Cage is not really popular music.

[Teh_Jakester]

They were active and performing in 69 though.

We can't really judge them on that, can we? I doubt any of us here have seen them preform pre-debut. Feel free to correct me, babe.

[mercury11]

Wouldn't it be the other way around?

I was kinda referring to when you said in the realm of pop Helter Skelter was possibly the heaviest song at the time, heavier than these songs etc.

[Parodygm]

It's just a rock song, conceived as a hard hitting rock song. Looking back you can call it proto-metal, proto-punk or whatever you like but lets not try to rewrite history.

[Julio_Strikes_Back]

We can't really judge them on that, can we? I doubt any of us here have seen them preform pre-debut. Feel free to correct me, babe.

it was in late 69 when they changed from hippie music and started experimenting with their horror music, so...

I heard a Frank Zappa song that sounded metal once. I don't remember what it was though.

[SisterRay]

I was kinda referring to when you said in the realm of pop Helter Skelter was possibly the heaviest song at the time, heavier than these songs etc.

Let's face it the like them or not the Beatles for the most were creating experimental music in the realm of pop music. Yes it was rock also. It's not being insulting when I say that because they were one of the few groups that could pull it off. Because of that it certainly exposed that type of music that people were not of aware of. I have heard many of the songs that were around at that time and "Helter Skelter" is one innovative track.

[SystemSCSnake]

Slayer is pop

[LaLimonada]

I had heard that Helter Skelter was a direct response to Pete Townshend writing I Can See For Miles. Personally I find I Can See For Miles a little more progressive. However, attitude boy inspired me to overcome and see the brilliance of Helter Skelter. Thank you Attitude Boy.