Rap Sucks

[newwaytodie]

Rap in it's current state, is terrible. Everyone always has the same response that rap was good "back in the day" or "You just aren't listening to the right rap".

It's not art, it's not music, and it's not a staple of the black community. It's destructive, cliched,
stereotypical, ethnically offensive, garbage.

So If rap doesn't suck prove me wrong. It does and you know it.

[Phiromos]

haha personally..i think rap isnt even music...i hate it...

[IbanezBassist_v2]

I wouldn't say that is sucks necessarily. But it sure ain't rock.

[Phiromos]

well....im not a big fan..ive heard some thats...alright...but it doesnt have any..notes...which is the basis of all music..its fast talking with a beat...some is catchy...but still

[WingsOfSteel]

Many rap songs suck, but not all, so I voted no.

Amish Paradise, baby.

[Guitarplayer777]

rap definatly SUCKS. Capitals needed. I can't believe they call themselves artists. they are'nt even singing! they are talking really fast!!
But i think rap rock is just barely a step up. (at least it has actual music)

[BobLoblaw]

Not as much as this thread.

[newwaytodie]

But i think rap rock is just barely a step up. (at least it has actual music)

If you puke on a turd, does it smell worse?

[Raider87]

Old school rap is the shiz... new age stuff is garbage.... I liked it back when it meant something

[Xzyliac]

Modern rap does suck. To that affect it does but old school was very poetic.

Though being black I may be a little biased. Even so I must say yes it does suck and has inevitably gone from poeticly unique to mainstream pop.

It's just techno with yelling about the same dumb stereotypes. Pointless.

[WingsOfSteel]

There's still less mainstream stuff. Yes, the gangsta rap on the radio sucks, but a song is as good as the artist can make it.

And one of the greatest rap songs of all time was released in the last year: White & Nerdy.

(I do like rap that's not by Weird Al, I just like his stuff the most.)

[hmxsean]

Talib Kweli, The Roots, Mos Def, KRS-One.

Just to name a few. Rap is as good as the person wielding it. Just like any other form of music. So no it doesn't suck. That isn't even opinion, it's fact.

[rcf1105]

As with most media, it's 95% crap. Unfortunately, the crap seems to be what's popular these days. There's good stuff out there, but you have to look for it.

[Xzyliac]

Agreed Sean and Steel but as a whole rap has just turned me off. And it kinda began with the radio. That could've been a fault of mine.

Digable Planets, A Tribe Called Quest, and Eric B And Rakim are a few greats.

I like coffeehouse beats and poetic lyrics but maybe that's just me.

[Phrank-E]

Old school rap is the shiz... new age stuff is garbage.... I liked it back when it meant something

Clap Clap Clap Clap.... Anyone ever hear of the Beastie Boys.. License to Ill is still on my top 10 of all time list. Run DMC.. NWA.. Public Enemy.. 2live Crew.

Rap can be cool, if done right.. Just that these tools today don't get it. Listen to the Humpty Dance and tell me that sucks... Whatever.. Closed mindedness runs rampant on the internets and I don't even no why I check in on threads like this.

[Guitarplayer777]

If you puke on a turd, does it smell worse?


Good point.

[Monsterpoptart]

rap os crap without the c. but really oldschool rap is really good and actually used talent

[CarusoBattle]

Saying rap sucks is like saying rock sucks. If you judge all rap by the **** you see on MTV such as 'Lil John and 50 Cent, you might as well judge all rock by Creed or Powerman 5000.

[Keagan2387]

Talib Kweli, The Roots, Mos Def, KRS-One.

Just to name a few. Rap is as good as the person wielding it. Just like any other form of music. So no it doesn't suck. That isn't even opinion, it's fact.

Thank you! You named people who actually have talent but get shadowed by terrible rappers. All rap doesnt suck, but for some reason with the newer generation and what not it has been acustum to like heavy metal and bash rap because people that listen to it think their black. It's pretty sad.

[Phiromos]

Thank you! You named people who actually have talent but get shadowed by terrible rappers. All rap doesnt suck, but for some reason with the newer generation and what not it has been acustum to like heavy metal and bash rap because people that listen to it think their black. It's pretty sad.

I know...i remember when rap used to be enjoyable...but now its been taken over by people and make 12 year olds think they can be black and shoot people up..its not right...and its not even understandable either...the old stuff was the only good rap..modern rap..shouldn't even have exsisted

[tharshmetalUK]

I can not stand it one bit. I can't stand rappers either they're just posers who brag about how many times they've been shot, and about how many hos they have.

[Keagan2387]

I can not stand it one bit. I can't stand rappers either they're just posers who brag about how many times they've been shot, and about how many hos they have.

once again stereotyping and going by what is played on the radio and on television. The only one I see talking about getting shot is 50 cent. Now show me ten more. Can't do it can you?

[DrIsosceles]

I can not stand it one bit. I can't stand rappers either they're just posers who brag about how many times they've been shot, and about how many hos they have.

I could just as easily say, "I don't like metal, it's just a bunch of downtuned guitars and vocalists who sing in unintelligibly low grunts and gurgles about satanism and crap like that." To which most will reply, "That's just death metal, there's tons of different types of metal, you shouldn't stereotype a genre based on a few crappy death metal bands." And you sir shouldn't base your opinion of a genre based on a few crappy gangster rappers you've heard on MTV. I'm not sure why most rock fans agree that mainstream radio rock sucks, but then go on to think that mainstream radio rap must be the best the genre has to offer.

[tharshmetalUK]

once again stereotyping and going by what is played on the radio and on television. The only one I see talking about getting shot is 50 cent. Now show me ten more. Can't do it can you?

R u trying to tell me the only rapper who has been shot is 50 cent? Sorry but that is just untrue, im not too familiar with rap but i bet theres almost 10 whos been shot or has shot someone.

[lithiumkc]

R u trying to tell me the only rapper who has been shot is 50 cent? Sorry but that is just untrue, im not too familiar with rap but i bet theres almost 10 whos been shot or has shot someone.

So? Jim Morrison was a ****ing ****** alcoholic, syd vicious killed his girlfriend and eventually himself, cobain was a heroin addict who killed himself, etc. etc.

There are stupid people in all genres, for different reasons. Mainstream rap talks about killing. Mainstream rap is largely crap.

There're a ton of underground artists out there that are amazing. You obviously wouldn't know, because you don't care enough about the genre to learn about it. You're basing your opinion simply on crap mainstream radio. If i did that with rock, i'd be killing a lot of opportunity to listen to good stuff just because fall out boy and my chemical romance are on the radio, and they SUCK.

So basically.. Don't even bother dissing a genre if you don't listen to it or take the time to analyze it.

[Keagan2387]

R u trying to tell me the only rapper who has been shot is 50 cent? Sorry but that is just untrue, im not too familiar with rap but i bet theres almost 10 whos been shot or has shot someone.

No what I am trying to say is 50 cent is the only one that comes out and brags about it. Sure I could say Tupac and Biggie, but they are dead now. I would like to thank DrIsosceles for keeping it real. You are stereotyping and have no clue what you are talking about.

[tharshmetalUK]

I could just as easily say, "I don't like metal, it's just a bunch of downtuned guitars and vocalists who sing in unintelligibly low grunts and gurgles about satanism and crap like that." To which most will reply, "That's just death metal, there's tons of different types of metal, you shouldn't stereotype a genre based on a few crappy death metal bands." And you sir shouldn't base your opinion of a genre based on a few crappy gangster rappers you've heard on MTV. I'm not sure why most rock fans agree that mainstream radio rock sucks, but then go on to think that mainstream radio rap must be the best the genre has to offer.

I can tell you're well informed. First of all not every metal band downtunes their guitars, also the vocals differ from different genres of metal. Rappers don't even use instruments they just get the same ****ty repetitive beat for the entire song, and please don't say turn tables are instruments because they're not. Some metal bands do sing about satan like the mighty SLAYER for instance, they're not real devil worshippers and they aren't death metal either, they're pure THRASH.

[Keagan2387]

I can tell you're well informed. First of all not every metal band downtunes their guitars, also the vocals differ from different genres of metal. Rappers don't even use instruments they just get the same ****ty repetitive beat for the entire song, and please don't say turn tables are instruments because they're not. Some metal bands do sing about satan like the mighty SLAYER for instance, they're not real devil worshippers and they aren't death metal either, they're pure THRASH.

http://files.samhart.net/humor/fail.jpg
YOU FAIL!
CHECK THE ROOTS IDIOT!

[lithiumkc]

I can tell you're well informed. First of all not every metal band downtunes their guitars
O rly? Not every rapper sings about shooting people


also the vocals differ from different genres of metal.
And the lyrics differ from rapper to rapper


Rappers don't even use instruments they just get the same ****ty repetitive beat for the entire song
It usually has a beat that changes for a chorus and bridge if there is one, then reverts to the original beat. Rock songs have a verse, then a bridge, then a chorus.


, and please don't say turn tables are instruments because they're not.
AHAHAHAHA.... I'd like to see you A. Play guitar for 6 months and see how good you get and then B. Learn to spin for 6 months and see how terrible you are. You don't comprehend the amount of precision and skill that goes into it. You just see people at turntables in rap videos and assume its easy... thats because they're just there for effect, not because they're actually spinning.


Some metal bands do sing about satan like the mighty SLAYER for instance, they're not real devil worshippers and they aren't death metal either, they're pure THRASH.
And lots of rappers rap about killing people when they never have killed people. All your points are silly, refutable by turning them around, and ignorant. Don't bother.

[WingsOfSteel]

cobain was a heroin addict who killed himself, etc. etc.

He was killed by Courtney Love, he never walked on the moon and he shares a burial plot with Paul McCartney.

Get it right. :rolleyes:

[CarusoBattle]

...and please don't say turn tables are instruments because they're not.

Wow, I can't WAIT to see all the **** you're going to get for this.

[lithiumkc]

Wow, I can't WAIT to see all the **** you're going to get for this.

Hahahaha, no doubt man... total ignorance on that one. Just shows how valid his opinion is on the subject... that was 100% bs coming from somebody who has no clue about how turntables work

[newwaytodie]

This was more of an experiment to see what types of responses were illicited from a very black and white point of view.

I'm not stupid. I know that life isn't black and white. I've heard Talib Kweli, I've heard Mos Def, I've heard The Roots. Maybe if rap wasn't so racially sensitive then people could look past the fact that it's populated with 99% untalented losers.

If I took a handfull of rappers that are played on MTV and the radio and tried to have me pick out one that didn't "suck" I honestly don't think I could.

If you took the same handfull but it was filled with ANY other type of music I would find one that I liked. Period.

Mos Def, Talib Kweli, and The Roots don't get any publicity around here. Not that it matters anyway, people that like rap like all the horrible representations of the genre. So you're saying I have to dig through a mile high stack of sh*t to find one or two rappers that are decent? I'll pass. I'm better off without.

[newwaytodie]

And it's funny because this is not even a yes/no question.

Don't write me off as ignorant or narrow minded either. I have very eclectic musical tastes. Just check my profile.

I decided I do like rap in some circumstances, I totally forgot that there are vocals on some of DJ Krush's stuff. It's just so good that I don't consider it rap.

[lithiumkc]

And it's funny because this is not even a yes/no question.

Don't write me off as ignorant or narrow minded either. I have very eclectic musical tastes. Just check my profile.

I decided I do like rap in some circumstances, I totally forgot that there are vocals on some of DJ Krush's stuff. It's just so good that I don't consider it rap.

I could pretty much tell you were being facetious with the first post, so i didn't say anything. But when it's obvious that people are mouthing off something they don't comprehend.. then i have to break in :p

[fragpirate]

rap would be ok, if it stuck to its roots and it stayed being about life on the streets and the darker, tougher side of life.
but todays rap pisses me off more than any thing.
instead of writing lyrics that tell a story or have meaning behind it most of todays popular rap is supid ass **** (here lemme just give you an idea, walk it out, buy you a drank (not drink, but drAnk), and that stupid lip gloss song, to name a few). im sure that there is good rappers today but i dont like rap so i havnt listened to them, but i know that i always liked public enemy, so my opinion isnt entirely biased and holds some credence.
how ever, getting back to my main point, todays rap is just garbage.

[GrayInvisible]

Wow cool I inspired a thread by defending rap.

Anyway, people have said the argument. Rap takes talent, there is more than the mainstream crap, a lot of it has great lyrics. I personally enjoy a good rap song much more than a death metal, thrash metal, or Nu Metal song.

Thrash metal seems like a troll though.

[trent0090]

Fist off there are no good Nu Metal bands, at least with rap their are good indie rappers, MC Chris, Optimus Rhyme, MC Frontalot. Plus older rap was pretty good the problem was and has always been mainstream acceptance. Once that was done clones sprang up, clones make everything suck, if you don't believe me just listen to all the 70's wannabe rockers. White stripes, jet, the hives etc.

[tharshmetalUK]

http://files.samhart.net/humor/fail.jpg
YOU FAIL!
CHECK THE ROOTS IDIOT!

Whats that supposed to mean?

[lithiumkc]

Whats that supposed to mean?
LISTEN TO THE ROOTS

Just stop proving you don't know what you're badmouthing is all. ESPECIALLY saying tables take no skill... That was a bad one dude.

lollerskates :rolleyes:

[tharshmetalUK]

LISTEN TO THE ROOTS

Just stop proving you don't know what you're badmouthing is all. ESPECIALLY saying tables take no skill... That was a bad one dude.

lollerskates :rolleyes:

All i was saying was compared to guitars, drums, violins, trombones, trumpets even the triangle!! Turntables are not instruments.

[lithiumkc]

All i was saying was compared to guitars, drums, violins, trombones, trumpets even the triangle!! Turntables are not instruments.

Welll.... Lets just doublecheck the dictionary here


in·stru·ment
[in-struh-muhnt]
–noun
a contrivance or apparatus for producing musical sounds.

Oh gee! Like a turntable does!

Turntables require a serious deal of precision to use dude. If you have never used them, you don't know how they work. If you don't know how they work, you have no right acting like they're inferior to a guitar or anything else. They're equally as difficult or more difficult (and without a doubt far more complex) than any instrument ou there.

Go find a set, 2 vinyls, and try to spin. You will fail, miserably. I'm not even being mean, it's just the facts of it. I could teach you a G chord in 2 minutes, but to learn how to spin would take WAY longer.

[tharshmetalUK]

I know we could go on forever but i can't be bothered. You have your opinion and i have mine. Im gonna have to carry a dictionary with me wherever i go from now on.

[lithiumkc]

I know we could go on forever but i can't be bothered. You have your opinion and i have mine. Im gonna have to carry a dictionary with me wherever i go from now on.

Well.. Its pretty hard to have a valid opinion on something when its obvious you are lacking the knowledge to have one. Its like somebody who's never tried ice cream saying its disgusting. You just won't be taken seriously.

Really, attempt to use turntables. Even better, download Pioneer DJS or Mixvibes software. Those are essentially virtual decks. If you can't figure out how to start mixing two songs, point proven. If you figure out how to get two songs playing in unison, try to match the beats perfectly and see how long it takes you. If you can't, point proven. If you manage to do that, congratulations! You just created a mashup, the most basic form of a mix possible! Once you can do that, pull out 4 or 5 more tracks, cue them up at precise points, run one song and then remember exactly when and where to play and stop the 4 other tracks to actually create a new mix. Mess up once and chances are your entire mix is wrecked. Mess up once on a guitar and you can just keep rolling.

Oh, and don't forget the crossfaders, effects (Phaser, flanger, chorus, reverb, etc.) learning how to cut out mids/lo's/highs, scratching, and the list goes on.

Turntables are extremely sophisticated pieces of machinery, and they are not something you can learn overnight, or even overyear.

[trent0090]

ha,ha,ha, now that you called Thrasmetal out he's waving the white flag. He's just a flame baby, lol.

[tharshmetalUK]

Welll.... Lets just doublecheck the dictionary here

Turntables require a serious deal of precision to use dude. If you have never used them, you don't know how they work. If you don't know how they work, you have no right acting like they're inferior to a guitar or anything else. They're equally as difficult or more difficult (and without a doubt far more complex) than any instrument ou there.

Go find a set, 2 vinyls, and try to spin. You will fail, miserably. I'm not even being mean, it's just the facts of it. I could teach you a G chord in 2 minutes, but to learn how to spin would take WAY longer.

My First point - Yes you could teach me a G chord in less than 2 minutes but could u teach me the holy wars riff or solo in 2 minutes? Thought not, and i mean to perfection. What about the tornado of souls riff? I could seriously go on forever. You are trying to say that playing guitar is easy and can be done to perfection in a matter of minutes.
My Second point - The vinyl u use for turntables already has someone elses material on it, now thats not very creative is it? No is the answer. With guitar u can learn other peoples songs but u can also create your own from scratch.

[lithiumkc]

My First point - Yes you could teach me a G chord in less than 2 minutes but could u teach me the holy wars riff or solo in 2 minutes? Thought not, and i mean to perfection. What about the tornado of souls riff? I could seriously go on forever. You are trying to say that playing guitar is easy and can be done to perfection in a matter of minutes.
My Second point - The vinyl u use for turntables already has someone elses material on it, now thats not very creative is it? No is the answer. With guitar u can learn other peoples songs but u can also create your own from scratch.

Sigh... this is my last reply. You're misinformed, and its obvious.

1. The point i was making is that it takes a lot more effort and a lot more time to get "good" at tables than at guitar. Being that i do both, I think I would know. I could teach you a G chord in 2 minutes, but I couldn't teach you how to start mixing in less than probably.. an hour or two. And even then you'd suck at it until you practiced for a few days. I could teach you several songs on a guitar before you learned to put together one with tables.

2. You CAN create completely new songs using tables. What the hell do you think electronica as a genre is? You can create your own effects and your own beats from scratch. I do it all the time. You don't have to sample. Sampling is very mainstream and mostly used in mainstream rap. Actual DJ's (i.e. Sasha, digweed) may use other peoples songs, but the MIXES they create are completely their own. The seamless switch from one song to the next without losing the buildup, the intensity of the song before. You don't understand? Not my problem. You can't comprehend the depth and work that goes in a mix, then don't bother commenting on it.

I'm sure you would be defending rock or thrash just as adamantly as me if somebody who only liked rap just said 'Rock sucks' when it was obvious they had no clue what they were talking about

So please.. inform yourself. Read. Analyze. Comprehend. THEN reply.

[tharshmetalUK]

Sigh... this is my last reply. You're misinformed, and its obvious.

1. The point i was making is that it takes a lot more effort and a lot more time to get "good" at tables than at guitar. Being that i do both, I think I would know. I could teach you a G chord in 2 minutes, but I couldn't teach you how to start mixing in less than probably.. an hour or two. And even then you'd suck at it until you practiced for a few days. I could teach you several songs on a guitar before you learned to put together one with tables.

2. You CAN create completely new songs using tables. What the hell do you think electronica as a genre is? You can create your own effects and your own beats from scratch. I do it all the time. You don't have to sample. Sampling is very mainstream and mostly used in mainstream rap. Actual DJ's (i.e. Sasha, digweed) may use other peoples songs, but the MIXES they create are completely their own. The seamless switch from one song to the next without losing the buildup, the intensity of the song before. You don't understand? Not my problem. You can't comprehend the depth and work that goes in a mix, then don't bother commenting on it.

I'm sure you would be defending rock or thrash just as adamantly as me if somebody who only liked rap just said 'Rock sucks' when it was obvious they had no clue what they were talking about

So please.. inform yourself. Read. Analyze. Comprehend. THEN reply.

You my friend are a know it all who can't stand having someone else disagree with him. Im afraid you'll have to get used to it because its gonna happen more and more as life goes on. :)

[lithiumkc]

You my friend are a know it all who can't stand having someone else disagree with him. Im afraid you'll have to get used to it because its gonna happen more and more as life goes on. :)

Oh no. I'm not claiming to know it all. I have no problem with your disagreement other than the principle of disagreement: You don't like rap, thus turntables are easy to use and do not require an ounce of musical talent to use. Since I have used them and know different, why would I agree with you?

If you

A. Listened to more than just mainstream rap
and
B. Used turntables before

then maybe i'd be inclined to let you have your opinion rather than argue it based on your lack of knowledge. But you can't knock something you've never given a chance. That's just childish, and like I keep saying, IGNORANT.

Not to mention you've been diligently replying to my every post which just renders you a hypocrite based on your last post.

[Phiromos]

ohh this is funnnn can i jump in...umm...i side with...lithiumkc WOOHOOO now i can argue too!!!

[tharshmetalUK]

Oh no. I'm not claiming to know it all. I have no problem with your disagreement other than the principle of disagreement: You don't like rap, thus turntables are easy to use and do not require an ounce of musical talent to use. Since I have used them and know different, why would I agree with you?

If you

A. Listened to more than just mainstream rap
and
B. Used turntables before

then maybe i'd be inclined to let you have your opinion rather than argue it based on your lack of knowledge. But you can't knock something you've never given a chance. That's just childish, and like I keep saying, IGNORANT.

Not to mention you've been diligently replying to my every post which just renders you a hypocrite based on your last post.

Yes i am the only hypocrite in the world i admit it, and yes i did give rap a chance many years ago when i didn't know any better, u assume too much. I also don't think i ever said "turn tables are easy" i just said i don't class them as instruments. So get your facts right next time you quote me please.

[BlackHole]

Rap means ******s Attempting Poetry

[tharshmetalUK]

Rap means ******s Attempting Poetry

Well said Black Hole its good to have someone on my side.:)

[lithiumkc]

Well said Black Hole its good to have someone on my side.:)

How was that well said? How has anything on your side of this debate been well said? It's been nothing but lies or opinion, and a lame joke doesn't validate yours.

[GrayInvisible]

Tharsh(lol) metal can't even spell, let alone argue.

EDIT:
Rap means ******s Attempting Poetry


http://eddddie.googlepages.com/facepalm.jpg

[lithiumkc]

Tharsh(lol) metal can't even spell, let alone argue.

Uch.. no kidding. I always get too caught up arguing with people like him and jakester. Anybody with half a brain will know who's full of **** :)

[tharshmetalUK]

How was that well said? How has anything on your side of this debate been well said? It's been nothing but lies or opinion, and a lame joke doesn't validate yours.

Who are you to say if someones opinion is validated or not? Maybe where u come from everybody lives by your every word but not me mate. Its not just u americans who have the right to free speech u know. I will voice my opinion whenever and wherever i choose, whever u like it or not.:)

[lithiumkc]

Who are you to say if someones opinion is validated or not? Maybe where u come from everybody lives by your every word but not me mate. Its not just u americans who have the right to free speech u know. I will voice my opinion whenever and wherever i choose, whever u like it or not.:)

Dude.. because you're simply saying what isn't true. You've already said several opinions that aren't backed up by anything. Everybody is allowed to have an opinion, YES, but once it's made clear that the opinion is based on misinformation, or just complete talking out of your ass.. makes it a little bit difficult to take it seriously, doesn't it.

And please. I'm not inhibiting your right to speak at all. Go for it. It's not very hard to refute everything you're saying. I'm just completely disagreeing with the utter crap you're saying, because it's utter crap.

Example -

I hate the UK. The UK is crap because they all have accents and they're all pretty dumb. I think Canada is way better.

That would be an opinion. Is it correct? Hell no. Do you have a right to argue with me if I say that? Hell yes. So don't expect that I or anybody else will sit idly by while you badmouth something enjoyable just because you CLEARLY don't understand the effort and skill involved. Playing the 'I have a right to my opinion' card only ever happens when you've got no argument.

[tharshmetalUK]

Dude.. because you're simply saying what isn't true. You've already said several opinions that aren't backed up by anything. Everybody is allowed to have an opinion, YES, but once it's made clear that the opinion is based on misinformation, or just complete talking out of your ass.. makes it a little bit difficult to take it seriously, doesn't it.

And please. I'm not inhibiting your right to speak at all. Go for it. It's not very hard to refute everything you're saying. I'm just completely disagreeing with the utter crap you're saying, because it's utter crap.

Example -

I hate the UK. The UK is crap because they all have accents and they're all pretty dumb. I think Canada is way better.

That would be an opinion. Is it correct? Hell no. Do you have a right to argue with me if I say that? Hell yes. So don't expect that I or anybody else will sit idly by while you badmouth something enjoyable just because you CLEARLY don't understand the effort and skill involved.


and the fact u think it is utter crap is your opinion, which i respect. When i said turntables weren't instruments it was my opinion whether it be true or not, just like if i said god exists and u said he doesen't. So maybe u need to look up the word opinion in that big fat dictionary of yours because as far as u are concearned your opinion is fact, and everyone else who disagrees with your opinion is either lying or talking out of their arse.

[lithiumkc]

and the fact u think it is utter crap is your opinion, which i respect. When i said turntables weren't instruments it was my opinion whether it be true or not, just like if i said god exists and u said he doesen't. So maybe u need to look up the word opinion in that big fat dictionary of yours because as far as u are concearned your opinion is fact, and everyone else who disagrees with your opinion is either lying or talking out of their arse.

You ARE lying if your opinion is that turntables are not instruments, and they are. You're just hiding behind the word opinion like it means you can say anything and not be debated against.

It is my opinion that water is solid. It is my opinion that the earth is flat. These are not facts, but opinions.

It is my opinion that water is liquid. This is a fact.

It is your opinion that turntables are not instruments. This is not a fact. Then obviously you're going to have people disagreeing with you. And when you have people disagreeing with you, and ultimately refuting what you are saying, REFUTING being the key word, maybe its time to take a look at your untouchable 'opinion' and think about changing it.

You cannot spew out lies and say they are opinions and then act like youre being attacked. Thats not how the world works. What we are debating here is black and white.. not much of a grey area. Does rap suck, or does it not? Some does, some does not, therefore rap does not suck. Certain rappers suck. This is how logical debate works, and you can't understand that. Are turntables instruments? There is no room for opinion when the answer is ultimately yes or no. There is nothing to debate on either side of that question. There is one answer.

So please, PLEASE, GOD PLEASE, realize that i'm not attacking you, and you can have your opinions.

[tharshmetalUK]

You ARE lying if your opinion is that turntables are not instruments, and they are. You're just hiding behind the word opinion like it means you can say anything and not be debated against.

It is my opinion that water is solid. It is my opinion that the earth is flat. These are not facts, but opinions.

It is my opinion that water is liquid. This is a fact.

It is your opinion that turntables are not instruments. This is not a fact. Then obviously you're going to have people disagreeing with you. And when you have people disagreeing with you, and ultimately refuting what you are saying, REFUTING being the key word, maybe its time to take a look at your untouchable 'opinion' and think about changing it.

You cannot spew out lies and say they are opinions and then act like youre being attacked. Thats not how the world works. What we are debating here is black and white.. not much of a grey area. Does rap suck, or does it not? Some does, some does not, therefore rap does not suck. Certain rappers suck. This is how logical debate works, and you can't understand that. Are turntables instruments? There is no room for opinion when the answer is ultimately yes or no. There is nothing to debate on either side of that question. There is one answer.

So please, PLEASE, GOD PLEASE, realize that i'm not attacking you, and you can have your opinions.

Wouldn't u say though that turntables are more like a piece of equipment like guitar amps for example? And i don't think u are attacking me

[x3ar23]

rap sucks 2 true

[lithiumkc]

Wouldn't u say though that turntables are more like a piece of equipment like guitar amps for example?

No, I would say the speakers that are playing what the turntables are running are more like a guitar amp.

The turntables are essential for creating the songs you are listening to. They are the main instrument when it comes to mixing and creating. No turntables = no music. You probably have never had the chance to see or use them before... so its understandable that you don't realize how complex they are. They may not be traditional 'instruments' like a violin or trumpet, but they are every DJ's voice.

[tharshmetalUK]

rap sucks 2 true

RIGHT ON BRUVA!!:D

Back to u lithiumkc maybe the only way to settle this is by starting a poll on whever the people think turntables are instruments or not.

[lithiumkc]

RIGHT ON BRUVA!!:D

Back to u lithiumkc maybe the only way to settle this is by starting a poll on whever the people think turntables are instruments or not.

No, that would settle nothing, because the same people who are voting that rap sucks [untrue] would vote that turntables are not instruments [also untrue]

This is not even an issue of 'settling' anything. I dont care how many people are on anybodys side. The only reason I'm debating with you is because i personally believe that you're wrong, and also because I've been on the 'rap sucks' side of it. I also know WHY i was on that side. Because the rap I was listening to did, in fact, suck. However I changed my opinion, which I know know to be wrong, because I opened up and listened to different stuff.

[tharshmetalUK]

No, that would settle nothing, because the same people who are voting that rap sucks [untrue] would vote that turntables are not instruments [also untrue]

This is not even an issue of 'settling' anything. I dont care how many people are on anybodys side. The only reason I'm debating with you is because i personally believe that you're wrong, and also because I've been on the 'rap sucks' side of it. I also know WHY i was on that side. Because the rap I was listening to did, in fact, suck. However I changed my opinion, which I know know to be wrong, because I opened up and listened to different stuff.

So you're afraid of the truth? Thought so.

[lithiumkc]

So you're afraid of the truth? Thought so.

Bahaha.. Look, you've provided nothing to support what youre saying at all. AT ALL. Nothing, other than saying 'rappers rap about getting shot' which is true, but stereotypical when you imply that ALL rappers do that.

Thus, you fail.

[lithiumkc]

P.S. Go ahead and post your poll on a rock-oriented audience forum. I'll go do the same on a DJ forum and we'll compare results :rolleyes:

Oh, and i should also let you know that they're more accepted as instruments when it comes to scratching.

[tharshmetalUK]

Bahaha.. Look, you've provided nothing to support what youre saying at all. AT ALL. Nothing, other than saying 'rappers rap about getting shot' which is true, but stereotypical when you imply that ALL rappers do that.

Thus, you fail.

I mentioned getting shot AND the hos. That is all they rap about.

[tharshmetalUK]

P.S. Go ahead and post your poll on a rock-oriented audience forum. I'll go do the same on a DJ forum and we'll compare results :rolleyes:

Oh, and i should also let you know that they're more accepted as instruments when it comes to scratching.

Now you're wrong because the poll vote now as it stands is 19 to 18 so it doesen't matter where u put the poll.

[lithiumkc]

I mentioned getting shot AND the hos. That is all they rap about.

Who are "they"?

Exactly.


P.S. tell me this isn't an instrument. Lets see you do that.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/b_C5wJh4dK0"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/b_C5wJh4dK0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[lithiumkc]

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sPasebVMIW4"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sPasebVMIW4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[newwaytodie]

Someone needs to start a thread with good rap music. I've already heard of The Roots, Mos Def and Talib Kweli so you're out of those. This is a challenge... I'll shred your choices to pieces if I hear one thing about a gun, a hoe, weed, rims, dem skreets, bling, grills, or any other nonsensical stereotypical unrelatable garbage. (Unrelatable and I worked and lived in the utmost of urban areas for 7 years, so don't tell me I don't know whats "gangsta" or "whats really hood cuz?" or whatever the f*ck.) Seriously gimme some rap that is GOOD! START NOW! I'll start you out, Del The funkee homosapien.

[lithiumkc]

Someone needs to start a thread with good rap music. I've already heard of The Roots, Mos Def and Talib Kweli so you're out of those. This is a challenge... I'll shred your choices to pieces if I hear one thing about a gun, a hoe, weed, rims, dem skreets, bling, grills, or any other nonsensical stereotypical unrelatable garbage. (Unrelatable and I worked and lived in the utmost of urban areas for 7 years, so don't tell me I don't know whats "gangsta" or "whats really hood cuz?" or whatever the f*ck.) Seriously gimme some rap that is GOOD! START NOW! I'll start you out, Del The funkee homosapien.

Danger Doom
Jedi Mind Tricks
Immortal Technique [revolutionary vol 2 is great.. pretty politically charged too]
Saul Williams
Tonedeff

Theres probably several gun weed rim references in there. But overall they are far better than mainstream, and 'being hood' isn't the main focus.

In fact, here's a talib kweli verse. He raps about how its hard to be taken seriously if you DON'T have a criminal record in the mainstream. Not all rappers are g's. Don't worry about the karate kid.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/o9kYULqRxBQ"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/o9kYULqRxBQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[lithiumkc]

On born days, I used to blow out the candles; and every Saturday
watch cartoons 'til noon and then I'd switch to Ralph McDaniels
I was, makin up a miracle flow, over a cereal bowl
And a paused beat from my stereo
Rhymes stronger than Popeye with the spinach
Yeah I'm gangster like the frog on Courageous Cat and Minute Mouse
Maybe I'm trippin and it's just a cartoon to you
But I got chills when I heard how Doom flipped the Scooby Doo
And, I might be buggin but it seem to me
that cartoons be realer than reality TV
They inspire my decision to be open and listen
But folks got it all twisted, like a yoga position
Like, in order to spit it dope, you gotta have a criminal past
that's similar to the cast of Different Strokes
Me and my people break bread, sit and smoke
The conversation rich, but that depend on what you consider broke
I draw on anything for inspiration
A fond memory, a piece of paper, walls in a train station


Sorry but those are great lyrics.

[Phrank-E]

I think you're both right in many aspects.. I've seen a guy play some serious music on a table full of crystal glasses. But to call a glass an instrument seems a bit excessive. Also a bunch of blue guys have done incredible things with PVC pipes and such. Even tap dancing makes music, But what are the instruments? The shoes or the person wearing them? You can create a rhythmic piece outta just about anything. Turntables are, I hear very hard to master... but they are a tool used as an instrument.

Let's consider this e-penis fight done with.

[Keagan2387]

Danger Doom
Jedi Mind Tricks
Immortal Technique [revolutionary vol 2 is great.. pretty politically charged too]
Saul Williams
Tonedeff

Theres probably several gun weed rim references in there. But overall they are far better than mainstream, and 'being hood' isn't the main focus.

In fact, here's a talib kweli verse. He raps about how its hard to be taken seriously if you DON'T have a criminal record in the mainstream. Not all rappers are g's. Don't worry about the karate kid.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/o9kYULqRxBQ"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/o9kYULqRxBQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Danger Mouse is the man. Check the Grey Album out if you haven't. Kanye I would have to say is the only mainstream guy I listen to. The only reason he has gotten as mainstream as he is, is for his beats. But really, once you get past his songs like gold digger and what not he has some very powerful ones. You may like depending on your political views. But I think almost every guy you guys have named is pretty much all of the rap I listen to.

[BlackHole]

Oh, and Gray Invisible I don't listen to thrash. I hate RAP because of its influence. They think it's cool to get out there and get shot or pick up girls off the street, or shoot someone else. Either you die or you go to jail, choose one Gray Invisible.

[Jsnkr9216]

For the most part, yes. I like a couple rappers/bands

Featuring:

Kottonmouth Kings
Ghostface Killah
Necro
Twiztid

And there's some others.. I just can't think of the names...


But in summarization...

Mainstream rap sucks. Electronic Beat Machines = Not Music.

[lithiumkc]

Oh, and Gray Invisible I don't listen to thrash. I hate RAP because of its influence. They think it's cool to get out there and get shot or pick up girls off the street, or shoot someone else. Either you die or you go to jail, choose one Gray Invisible.

Ok, then i guess rocks influence would be to go out and do coke and heroin til you're rail thin. And pops influence would be to sluttify 14 year old girls. And jazz makes everybody crazy for sex, SCANDALOUS.

You can't stereotype entire genres on the actions of a few. Its pretty damn easy to stereotype ANY type of music that way. Not all rap has to do with shooting, money, or the hood, and if you disagree then.. well, you're wrong. Because I have listened to different rap than that. A lot of it. MAINSTREAM rap is all girls and money. That's what you're not comprehending here. And MAINSTREAM for just about everything should not be what you base opinions on. Otherwise, as said before, nobody would listen to rock because all rock is about is cutting yourself and crying, right? Either you cut, or you cry, choose one BlackHole.

[Eman311]

I hope this thread wasnt made to make rap look bad...........because its losing the poll lol.

Rap can be very good........what most people think of when they think of rap is the mainstream, generic radio crap that gets force fed through the radio.

But there is definetly good stuff out there. Hey 311 is qualified as rap/rock so maybe i'm a little biased, but i love when bands mix up rock and traditional singing with rap verses. Either way thats probably not the rap this thread is about :p

[tharshmetalUK]

On born days, I used to blow out the candles; and every Saturday
watch cartoons 'til noon and then I'd switch to Ralph McDaniels
I was, makin up a miracle flow, over a cereal bowl
And a paused beat from my stereo
Rhymes stronger than Popeye with the spinach
Yeah I'm gangster like the frog on Courageous Cat and Minute Mouse
Maybe I'm trippin and it's just a cartoon to you
But I got chills when I heard how Doom flipped the Scooby Doo
And, I might be buggin but it seem to me
that cartoons be realer than reality TV
They inspire my decision to be open and listen
But folks got it all twisted, like a yoga position
Like, in order to spit it dope, you gotta have a criminal past
that's similar to the cast of Different Strokes
Me and my people break bread, sit and smoke
The conversation rich, but that depend on what you consider broke
I draw on anything for inspiration
A fond memory, a piece of paper, walls in a train station


Sorry but those are great lyrics.

Sorry but those ARE terrible lyrics :)

[tharshmetalUK]

Who are "they"?

Exactly.


P.S. tell me this isn't an instrument. Lets see you do that.

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No it is not an instument and why would i ever want to do that. The only reason i would want to do that is if i wanted the people around me to SUFFER.

[Keagan2387]

Sorry but those ARE terrible lyrics :)

Post good lyrics then from a metal song. Oh this will be fun.

OHHHHHHHHHHH AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
BLARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HUMPHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I GOTTA TAKE A S.HIT
IT WONT COME OUT!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
BORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RAWRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
RORRRRRRRRRROROROWJEROAIFJAF
QSIOAFIPHJFPASOFFSDIOHJ!

[tharshmetalUK]

Post good lyrics then from a metal song. Oh this will be fun.

OHHHHHHHHHHH AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
BLARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HUMPHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I GOTTA TAKE A S.HIT
IT WONT COME OUT!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
BORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RAWRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
RORRRRRRRRRROROROWJEROAIFJAF
QSIOAFIPHJFPASOFFSDIOHJ!

Now theres an improvement. These lyrics are miles better, what rap song are these from?:)

[JesusSilencio]

All of you guys talking about good rap and you forgot to mention the best rap song ever (http://www.atomfilms.com/film/gangsta_rap_se.jsp).

But seriously, as everyone has already mentioned, mainstream is crap, but some rap is good. And thrashmetal, its your opinion if you think scratching sounds like crap, but you have to at least admit that it takes a lot of skill to do what dj Qbert is doing.

[Phiromos]

Post good lyrics then from a metal song. Oh this will be fun.

OHHHHHHHHHHH AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
BLARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HUMPHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I GOTTA TAKE A S.HIT
IT WONT COME OUT!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
BORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RAWRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
RORRRRRRRRRROROROWJEROAIFJAF
QSIOAFIPHJFPASOFFSDIOHJ!

haha i would LOVE to hear this song

[tharshmetalUK]

Post good lyrics then from a metal song. Oh this will be fun.

OHHHHHHHHHHH AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
BLARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HUMPHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I GOTTA TAKE A S.HIT
IT WONT COME OUT!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
BORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RAWRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
RORRRRRRRRRROROROWJEROAIFJAF
QSIOAFIPHJFPASOFFSDIOHJ!

Brother will kill brother
Spilling blood across the land
Killing for religion
Something i don't understand

Fools like me who cross the sea
And come to foreign lands
Ask the sheep for their beliefs
Do you kill on gods command?

A country thats divided
Surely will not stand
My past erased, no more disgrace
No foolish naive stand

The end is near, it's crystal clear
Part of the master plan
Don't look now to Isreal
It might be your homeland
Holy Wars

These lyrics are about serious and historic issues.

[Eman311]

dude those lyrics are no better whatsoever.

and songs about politics and war are usually the uber suckage

[lithiumkc]

Brother will kill brother
Spilling blood across the land
Killing for religion
Something i don't understand

Fools like me who cross the sea
And come to foreign lands
Ask the sheep for their beliefs
Do you kill on gods command?

A country thats divided
Surely will not stand
My past erased, no more disgrace
No foolish naive stand

The end is near, it's crystal clear
Part of the master plan
Don't look now to Isreal
It might be your homeland
Holy Wars

These lyrics are about serious and historic issues.

Also cliche and very basic, like a lot of metal. Metals focus is on its instruments.. lyrics are secondary most of the time. And if not, well.. They just suck at writing lyrics then. Metal lyrics are at best mediocre most of the time. And then you read through the last half of the lyrics i posted, and they 'suck'?

Lets compare.

Metal

'The end is near' - cliche
Calling people sheep - oldest cliche in the book
The first 3 lines of the song look like they were written by a 12 year old attempting poetry
All in all, very little in the way of descriptive writing, uses almost no decent form of creative writing [metaphors, alliteration, rhyme schemes etc.]

They appear to have little to no thought put into them, other than BLUNTLY smacking the listener in the face with the intended message, as if he's a moron who can't understand anything unless it's spoonfed to him.

EDIT - I just realized that you may be one of the people who needs to be spoonfed, thrash. This would explain your preference of the metal lyrics, inability to comprehend the rap ones.

Rap
I was, makin up a miracle flow, over a cereal bowl
And a paused beat from my stereo - Very good flow to that line, and not traditional cliche'd rhyming.

And, I might be buggin but it seem to me
that cartoons be realer than reality TV
They inspire my decision to be open and listen
But folks got it all twisted, like a yoga position - Great simile at the end, great message in the first 2 [If you don't understand it, i suggest you read through again]

Me and my people break bread, sit and smoke
The conversation rich, but that depend on what you consider broke
I draw on anything for inspiration
A fond memory, a piece of paper, walls in a train station - Again, amazing descriptive writing, especially the double meanings of the last 2 sentences. Draw on anything for inspiration [as in get inspired by anything] and literally DRAW on anything [i.e. pen on paper]

Sorry but the rap lyrics are far superior when it comes to writing. If you disagree, i suggest you take a copy of both to any english teacher you can find and listen to his reviews.

[tharshmetalUK]

dude those lyrics are no better whatsoever.

and songs about politics and war are usually the uber suckage

Maybe its because you don't even know what those lyrics are about, try going to school every once in a while.

Metal bands write songs about issues everyone else is too scared to write about, incase they get a bit of bad publicity or something. Rappers and its fans are too high on weed to know whats goin on in the world.:)

[lithiumkc]

So basically.. Metal is good, yes. But it's NOT lyric based. It's all about the thrash, the speed, the raw power of the guitars and the drums, and the vocals. LYRICS are not the strong point of metal, period.

Rap is lyrics. PERIOD. The only thing a rapper has is his flow and his words, so it's only natural that the lyrics are going to be better most of the time. This doesn't make metal lesser.. they're different types of music.

[lithiumkc]

Maybe its because you don't even know what those lyrics are about, try going to school every once in a while.

Metal bands write songs about issues everyone else is too scared to write about, incase they get a bit of bad publicity or something. Rappers and its fans are too high on weed to know whats goin on in the world.:)

Bahahahhaha.... Okay forget it. You not only stereotype the genre, but now the audience. How many times do you have to put your foot in your mouth before you realize how wrong you are, chump. Go listen to your metal and headbang, that seems to be the only time your braincells are moving anyways :rolleyes:

[lithiumkc]

Here's your message from one of those stoned rappers who's too lazy to read the news

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ntQfkc7DRsY"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ntQfkc7DRsY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

amazing track by the way.

[tharshmetalUK]

Here's your message from one of those stoned rappers who's too lazy to read the news

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ntQfkc7DRsY"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ntQfkc7DRsY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

amazing track by the way.

Sorry i didn't get through all of this crap song (if a song is what you want to call it). Yes the video is serious but i can't understand their alien language they seem to be speaking.They could be talking about anything for all i know.

[lithiumkc]

Sorry i didn't get through all of this crap song (if a song is what you want to call it). Yes the video is serious but i can't understand their alien language they seem to be speaking.They could be talking about anything for all i know.

Hahaha, so point proven, you cannot comprehend so automatically it's crap. GJ, youre a ******! You need things blatantly screamed at you before you understand! Drink another two beers and listen to Grade 9 english projects over loud guitars.

[tharshmetalUK]

Hahaha, so point proven, you cannot comprehend so automatically it's crap. GJ, youre a ******! You need things blatantly screamed at you before you understand! Drink another two beers and listen to Grade 9 english lyrics over loud guitars.

You're the ****** my friend.

The Evidence:

You do not understand the meaning of the word opinion
You are always right and anyone who disagrees with you is instantly wrong and lying.
You think Decs are instruments LOL
You carry a dictionary with you for when you encounter words too complicated for your brain to understand e.g. opinion and instrument
You accuse people of steriotyping others when you do the same yourself without even realising it. (another fact for your detailed file on me I don't drink beer):)
You accuse people of being hypocrytical when you are no better.

[Eman311]

thrash youre the one being stereotypical. You assume because you like those lyrcis that they are creative and awesome and better than some rap songs. you are also instantly assuming no rap lyrics could be better then some metal songs. A Dec produces sounds that can be manipulated to produce other sounds. kinda sounds like an instrument doesnt it?
stop being narrowminded.

[lithiumkc]

You're the ****** my friend.

The Evidence:

You do not understand the meaning of the word opinion
I do, i also understand when somebody is writing off an entire genre as crap based on a handful of bad artists.


You are always right and anyone who disagrees with you is instantly wrong and lying.
Nope, otherwise I'd argue a hell of a lot more than I do. I'm arguing with you here on a single subject. It's called debating. Look it up.


You think Decs are instruments LOL
Because they are. I already proved that. Doesn't mean they're considered instruments in every case.


You carry a dictionary with you for when you encounter words too complicated for your brain to understand e.g. opinion and instrument
Bahaha, yeah okay. I obviously did that to prove a point, not because I can't comprehend the meaning. I have a very good grasp of the english language. Thanks though, 'tharsh' :rolleyes:


You accuse people of steriotyping others when you do the same yourself without even realising it. (another fact for your detailed file on me I don't drink beer):)
That was an intentionally used stereotype, not one I believe. It's called a joke. Need a definition for that one?


You accuse people of being hypocrytical when you are no better.
Show me where I've been hypocritical. All i've done is categorically refute your 'opinions'.

I will explain one more time the difference between an opinion and what you are doing.

Opinion - I don't care for rap. I don't relate to the music, so i don't listen to it. 50 cent and similar rappers who rap about ho's and guns are crap.

You - Rap is crap, all rappers do is go on about guns and ho's, rappers and their audience are just stoners who don't know anything about world events. Turntables are inferior to guitars and are the equivalent to a guitar amp. Rappers don't ever write songs about current issues because they are too scared [and are too high]. Using turntables is not creative because you make use of somebody elses material.

Tell me which of those in your category is opinion. None of them. Opinions are valid when there is no concrete evidence to prove otherwise, and in every single one of those cases there is sufficient evidence to prove that your 'opinion' is wrong. When that occurs, it is no longer an opinion, it is a lie. And since I can easily pick apart every single one of those statements, collected from only this thread, and prove them wrong one by one, they are all lies, and thus no longer opinions. If you want me to stop arguing with you, give me a real opinion, I.E. 'I don't like rap' instead of 'All rappers suck and anybody involved with the genre is stoned'.

I'm sorry 'tharsh' that you don't understand how an opinion works, or how critical debate works, or that you are unable to give any points that support your side other than LIES.

[tharshmetalUK]

thrash youre the one being stereotypical. You assume because you like those lyrcis that they are creative and awesome and better than some rap songs. you are also instantly assuming no rap lyrics could be better then some metal songs. A Dec produces sounds that can be manipulated to produce other sounds. kinda sounds like an instrument doesnt it?
stop being narrowminded.

Now your just putting words into my mouth. YES i am being stereotypical but so is lithiumkc for assuming i drink beer, headbang and have long hair. I never said those lyrics are real creative i just think they are good and get the message across. I do know some rap lyrics are better than some of metals, not once did i say metals lyrics reign supreme, so no i am not narrow minded.

I do stick by my beliefs and opinions. I do not like being told what is right or wrong, fact or fiction or truth or lie by someone like lithiumkc who obviously doesen't like anyone disagreeing with him, and who labels those who do liers.

[tharshmetalUK]

Sigh... this is my last reply. You're misinformed, and its obvious.

1. The point i was making is that it takes a lot more effort and a lot more time to get "good" at tables than at guitar. Being that i do both, I think I would know. I could teach you a G chord in 2 minutes, but I couldn't teach you how to start mixing in less than probably.. an hour or two. And even then you'd suck at it until you practiced for a few days. I could teach you several songs on a guitar before you learned to put together one with tables.

2. You CAN create completely new songs using tables. What the hell do you think electronica as a genre is? You can create your own effects and your own beats from scratch. I do it all the time. You don't have to sample. Sampling is very mainstream and mostly used in mainstream rap. Actual DJ's (i.e. Sasha, digweed) may use other peoples songs, but the MIXES they create are completely their own. The seamless switch from one song to the next without losing the buildup, the intensity of the song before. You don't understand? Not my problem. You can't comprehend the depth and work that goes in a mix, then don't bother commenting on it.

I'm sure you would be defending rock or thrash just as adamantly as me if somebody who only liked rap just said 'Rock sucks' when it was obvious they had no clue what they were talking about

So please.. inform yourself. Read. Analyze. Comprehend. THEN reply.

This was your last reply on page 5 what page are we on now may I ask?:)

[lithiumkc]

Now your just putting words into my mouth. YES i am being stereotypical but so is lithiumkc for assuming i drink beer, headbang and have long hair. I never said those lyrics are real creative i just think they are good and get the message across. I do know some rap lyrics are better than some of metals, not once did i say metals lyrics reign supreme, so no i am not narrow minded.

I do stick by my beliefs and opinions. I do not like being told what is right or wrong, fact or fiction or truth or lie by someone like lithiumkc who obviously doesen't like anyone disagreeing with him, and who labels those who do liers.

Nah buddy. I disagree with people ALL THE TIME about music. I don't like a lot of bands, a lot of bands my friends listen to. When that happens, I explain why I don't like it, and I don't try to change somebodys opinion about it. This works, because it is a SINGLE BAND we're talking about, not generalizing every single artist in one statement.

If however i was shown a metal band I didn't like, and then I turned around and said that every metal band was horrible, how can you listen to metal, its childish and loud and crappy and their voices all suck, based on ONE BAND or a handful, then I'd be you. Then i'd be lying.

When somebody like YOU steps up and starts throwing out huge generalizations about entire genres and such, then it's not the same thing. I dont care if you don't like rap. I couldn't care less. If you opinion was that you didn't like rap, so be it. It's the extra added BS youre throwing in there that I am disagreeing with, and I'm able to disagree with it because the rest of what you're saying is NOT opinion. Opinions lack enough truth to either side to say for sure which is right. Saying all rappers are murderers and like hoes is easily replied to with 'What about talib kweli, what about danger doom'. Immediately then, the statement you made is falsified, turns into a lie.

[lithiumkc]

This was your last reply on page 5 what page are we on now may I ask?:)

Aw sorry, I guess it'd be a lot easier for you to bs if there was nobody disagreeing with you. Way to sidestep my entire post. Finally couldn't think of a half-assed response?

You're resorting to this because you're beaten.. just lie down already and accept that you were wrong several times. Then just say you don't like rap, and be done with it.

[tharshmetalUK]

Nah buddy. I disagree with people ALL THE TIME about music. I don't like a lot of bands, a lot of bands my friends listen to. When that happens, I explain why I don't like it, and I don't try to change somebodys opinion about it. This works, because it is a SINGLE BAND we're talking about, not generalizing every single artist in one statement.

If however i was shown a metal band I didn't like, and then I turned around and said that every metal band was horrible, how can you listen to metal, its childish and loud and crappy and their voices all suck, based on ONE BAND or a handful, then I'd be you. Then i'd be lying.

When somebody like YOU steps up and starts throwing out huge generalizations about entire genres and such, then it's not the same thing. I dont care if you don't like rap. I couldn't care less. If you opinion was that you didn't like rap, so be it. It's the extra added BS youre throwing in there that I am disagreeing with, and I'm able to disagree with it because the rest of what you're saying is NOT opinion. Opinions lack enough truth to either side to say for sure which is right. Saying all rappers are murderers and like hoes is easily replied to with 'What about talib kweli, what about danger doom'. Immediately then, the statement you made is falsified, turns into a lie.

I don't like rap i think it is all crap OPINION (theres a little rime in there just for you)

Ive proved you're a hypocrite above your latest post. What do u have to say about that? You asked me to prove it.

[lithiumkc]

I don't like rap i think it is all crap OPINION

Ive proved you're a hypocrite above your latest post. What do u have to say about that? You asked me to prove it.
Great, so I'm a hypocrite. I posted again after saying I wouldn't. You got me.

Still doesn't change the message.

And yes, you actually FINALLY gave an opinion, THANK YOU. You didn't preface that by saying 'all rappers like guns and hos' or 'youre all high'. Therefore, you finally gave a true opinion.

I think you're getting somewhere. Im proud of you sport.

[tharshmetalUK]

Great, so I'm a hypocrite. I posted again after saying I wouldn't. You got me.

Still doesn't change the message.

And yes, you actually FINALLY gave an opinion, THANK YOU. You didn't preface that by saying 'all rappers like guns and hos' or 'youre all high'. Therefore, you finally gave a true opinion.

I think you're getting somewhere. Im proud of you sport.

SEE we are the same you and i. :)

[Phiromos]

I'm very glad you two are finally getting along ^ ^

[tharshmetalUK]

You truly are a fool ive been stating my opinion all along and you realise this NOW. Man you're slow you got there in the end though thats the main thing.

[Phiromos]

or maybe i'm wrong

[lithiumkc]

You truly are a fool ive been stating my opinion all along and you realise this NOW. Man you're slow you got there in the end though thats the main thing.

You did state your opinion, you're right. But you threw in lies or misconceptions every time too. Youre way too thick to understand what I'm saying and my points been proven 20 times over so I'm done.

[Phiromos]

Fair enough...i was wrong

[lithiumkc]

Fair enough...i was wrong

Hahaha...

Sorry to everybody for basically threadjacking this.. But I hate when people outright lie about things they obviously know nothing about. Also, I like to debate. It's usually a bit better when theres a challenge though :D

My final point - Hate rap if you want. Go ahead and preach the word that you think its a horrible genre. I wholeheartedly agree that there is bad rap out there. I've heard it. Do not, however, come forth to say that rap is nothing but violence and money, full of stoners, or that there are no rappers willing to tackle touchy issues. It proves your complete ignorance of the genre other than whatever you hear on the radio.

Tharsh, no hard feelings.

[Phiromos]

Hahaha...

Sorry to everybody for basically threadjacking this.. But I hate when people outright lie about things they obviously know nothing about. Also, I like to debate. It's usually a bit better when theres a challenge though :D

My final point - Hate rap if you want. Go ahead and preach the word that you think its a horrible genre. I wholeheartedly agree that there is bad rap out there. I've heard it. Do not, however, come forth to say that rap is nothing but violence and money, full of stoners, or that there are no rappers willing to tackle touchy issues. It proves your complete ignorance of the genre other than whatever you hear on the radio.

Tharsh, no hard feelings.

lol dont worry about it...i was following your argument the whole time just didnt step in till you guys kinda "made up"...haha but i was wrong...it was rather funny at the end me thinking you guys got along..then he goes and starts up again...i was cracking up

[Demoneyeskyo44]

man my bad if something like this has already been said cuz i didnt check the rest of the pages on this thread but here goes...

You guys just aint listening to the right rap lol

I mean sure there are some people who just arent into it at all but man are there some really good rappers/groups out there here are some to check out if you want

Wu tang clan
Lupe fiasco
Talib Kweli
Common
Mos Def
Ghostface killah(member of Wu)
Method man(also a member of Wu)
Twista
Busta Rhymes(his old stuff anyways)
Ludacris(listen to the songs they dont play on the radio)

yea man all those cats are crazy rappers whose lyrics are i guess you can say poetic at times (Lupe Common Mos Def Talib) sometimes they rap what i like to call cold blooded (Wu Tang Clan and its individual members, Busta) and then you got your light hearted rap (definately Ludacris but he can be of the other 2 at times)

yea i may be rambling i just love music a whole lot and i hate when people listen to whats on the radio and they think rap is all about *****es and rides and money and jewlery yea that sucks but can be catchy as someone else said...

[tharshmetalUK]

Hahaha...

Sorry to everybody for basically threadjacking this.. But I hate when people outright lie about things they obviously know nothing about. Also, I like to debate. It's usually a bit better when theres a challenge though :D

My final point - Hate rap if you want. Go ahead and preach the word that you think its a horrible genre. I wholeheartedly agree that there is bad rap out there. I've heard it. Do not, however, come forth to say that rap is nothing but violence and money, full of stoners, or that there are no rappers willing to tackle touchy issues. It proves your complete ignorance of the genre other than whatever you hear on the radio.

Tharsh, no hard feelings.

No hard feelings to u either, and the spelling mistake in tharsh is intended.:)

And please don't bull**** me or anybody else when u say there wasn't a challenge:D

We'll call this debate a tie shall we? Good.

Maybe we can agree on somethin next time? Only time will tell.

[lithiumkc]

No hard feelings to u either, and the spelling mistake in tharsh is intended.:)

And please don't bull**** me or anybody else when u say there wasn't a challenge:D

We'll call this debate a tie shall we? Good.

Maybe we can agree on somethin next time? Only time will tell.

A tie eh... ahaha.. whatever you say :)

And I doubt we'd disagree about everything.

[Keagan2387]

Maybe its because you don't even know what those lyrics are about, try going to school every once in a while.

Metal bands write songs about issues everyone else is too scared to write about, incase they get a bit of bad publicity or something. Rappers and its fans are too high on weed to know whats goin on in the world.:)

You have to be kidding me? hahaha to scared to write about? Your full of it. Do you like Rage against the machine?! Is that a happy medium? THEY had the balls to say ****. Megadeth can't say ****. You act like it was all skilled writing. It isn't, I could find someone from my school to write those lyrics.

[LavatoryLoveMachine]

haha the poll is 50-50

[WildarmsRogue]

Rap is where a dude sits down and goes "Yo yo yo homie g dawg, wurd up in my hood, wearin my black suit, goin ride all dem *****es" Add crap production quality and loud BUNCHIKBUNCHIKBOOMs and you have yourself, a Rap song. AKA not music.

[lithiumkc]

Rap is where a dude sits down and goes "Yo yo yo homie g dawg, wurd up in my hood, wearin my black suit, goin ride all dem *****es" Add crap production quality and loud BUNCHIKBUNCHIKBOOMs and you have yourself, a Rap song. AKA not music.

Yet another well researched, well thought out post.

Rock is where 4 dudes sit down and take acid and smoke weed and go 'RAHHHHH BRARBRBHARBGHGHHABRBH SATAAAAAN'. Add distortion on guitars, a double bass, and you have yourself a rock song. AKA not music.

GOD THATS EASY. I'm getting the hang of this generalization stuff!

Oh well. I say those who like rap, like it. Those willing to give it a chance and who found something they like.. good on ya. Mouthing it off doesn't really destroy the experience for anybody who likes it :p

[Rev0lver]

i don't even see how rap is music at all. it is a poem, but with simple drum beats and synth. there is no musical skill put into making rap, only poetic skill(although i don't see much of that anymore, all rap songs i have heard recently are just about sex and getting high)

[tharshmetalUK]

i don't even see how rap is music at all. it is a poem, but with simple drum beats and synth. there is no musical skill put into making rap, only poetic skill(although i don't see much of that anymore, all rap songs i have heard recently are just about sex and getting high)


I agree with you friend, but now you've just pissed lithiumkc right off. For gods sake don't say decks aren't instruments coz you'll have contract killers on your arse before you know whats going on. He might even bust a cap in your ass his self.:)

[lithiumkc]

I agree with you friend, but now you've just pissed lithiumkc right off. For gods sake don't say decks aren't instruments coz you'll have contract killers on your arse before you know whats going on. He might even bust a cap in your ass his self.:)

See, now you're just being stupid... Don't be sad that you got a verbal ass whipping in the last 10 pages. It's not my fault you couldn't think of any half decent points to support your 'All rappers love guns and hoes and are stoners' theory.

Fail at debate. F-

[Phiromos]

and here i thought we had FINALLY settled our differences....guess not ^ ^

[lithiumkc]

and here i thought we had FINALLY settled our differences....guess not ^ ^

Well, if he can go two posts without trying to call me out, in every thread, maybe it will be settled.

[Keagan2387]

Tharshmetal has proved he's ignorant and knows nothing about accepting music for music. He has biased opinions and will think what he wants. He's wrong, but in his puny little brain he's a winner. If people agree with what he says, your just as dumb. All he has done is stereotype rap and say **** about it. I could say the same thing like lithium did about rock music, but see you didn't have anything to say back to that. You guys that are knocking on it, should take the time to think of a well though out response instead of looking like a bunch of dumb****s.

[Phiromos]

Well, if he can go two posts without trying to call me out, in every thread, maybe it will be settled.

lol i know....he has no idea what hes doing...i agree with you..i just find it funny how he keeps tryin to start stuff

[Rev0lver]

i don't stereotype rap, but i don't think it is music because it is a spoken poem. they just add drum and synth so they can call it music.

[lithiumkc]

Well lets at least try to keep it to debate.. namecalling wont solve anything. Its frustrating arguing with a brick wall, i feel your pain, but.. Im pretty sure anybody with any common sense knows the truth of it if they read through the whole thread.

Rap is good. Mainstream rap is mostly not, depending on your preference. End debate.

thread should almost be locked just to save any more fighting :o

[tharshmetalUK]

Tharshmetal has proved he's ignorant and knows nothing about accepting music for music. He has biased opinions and will think what he wants. He's wrong, but in his puny little brain he's a winner. If people agree with what he says, your just as dumb. All he has done is stereotype rap and say **** about it. I could say the same thing like lithium did about rock music, but see you didn't have anything to say back to that. You guys that are knocking on it, should take the time to think of a well though out response instead of looking like a bunch of dumb****s.

You are talking ****, i do accept music for music. I accept that rap is ****, honest i do. If u think of music in general as a human body for example, with different genres representing different parts of the body. Rap would be the ass hole. rock would be the heart, metal would be the brain and pop would be the little finger.

Now keagan2387 why don't you grow a d**k and stop agreeing with every word lithiumkc says, i mean, its as if you're his ****ing bum chum or something.

Lithiumkc you could never ever give me an asswhooping, be it verbal or physical.

[Kutsic]

Rap, just like any other musical genre has good and bad. Also like most musical genres, the truly talented artists are generally not the most popular. Now to start things off, I despise most radio rap. I think it's some of the most generic, uneducated, untalented garbage to ever be made. I hate how there's a new dance every week and there's a new song to go with it to instruct you how to do the dance, but you can't understand the moves to the idiotic dance because the songs lyrics are nothing but made up words and phrases yelled by a group of fools that didn't pass english class.

Now, with that being said, when you dig deeper into the rappers that actually rap for the sake of making music, there are quite a few that I think are extremely talented. Those would be Nas, The Roots, Fort Minor, Jurassic 5, Outkast, Organic Thought, Immortal Technique, Styles of Beyond, and others along those lines. The artists that make music like that actually take the time and effort to produce quality music that isn't the same repeated bassline and yelling instructions at you.

[Phiromos]

and here we go again....hurray(sarcasm)

[Elnino]

I hate all Hip-Hop, Rap they have these days. 1. It's not good. 2. Makes more damn posers in my school!!!. I don't have anything against rap in general but the new crap sucks. I know the old stuff is really good, but I wasn't born back then (12 year old right here) so I wouldn't know that much.

[Phiromos]

I hate all Hip-Hop, Rap they have these days. 1. It's not good. 2. Makes more damn posers in my school!!!. I don't have anything against rap in general but the new crap sucks. I know the old stuff is really good, but I wasn't born back then (12 year old right here) so I wouldn't know that much.

ah s**t you're 12??? for a 12 year old you have some very thoughtful things to say...you are wise beyond your years

[lithiumkc]

Rap, just like any other musical genre has good and bad. Also like most musical genres, the truly talented artists are generally not the most popular. Now to start things off, I despise most radio rap. I think it's some of the most generic, uneducated, untalented garbage to ever be made. I hate how there's a new dance every week and there's a new song to go with it to instruct you how to do the dance, but you can't understand the moves to the idiotic dance because the songs lyrics are nothing but made up words and phrases yelled by a group of fools that didn't pass english class.

Now, with that being said, when you dig deeper into the rappers that actually rap for the sake of making music, there are quite a few that I think are extremely talented. Those would be Nas, The Roots, Fort Minor, Jurassic 5, Outkast, Organic Thought, Immortal Technique, Styles of Beyond, and others along those lines. The artists that make music like that actually take the time and effort to produce quality music that isn't the same repeated bassline and yelling instructions at you.

Immortal Technique is one of my favorites.. dance with the devil was a bomb track for sure. Crossing the boundary... 4th branch... revolutionary vol. 2 was killer.

[Demoneyeskyo44]

jedi mind tricks and danger doom is cool too ima go see them at rock the bells along with rage and wu tang and cypress hill its going to be awsome!

[Demoneyeskyo44]

and as for the guy that said rappers are too scared to talk about the hard stuff or w/e they said all i gotta say is public enemy wu tang and N.W.A. look up their lyrics

but yea nowadays its hard to find a rapper that raps about the hard stuff

[lithiumkc]

jedi mind tricks and danger doom is cool too ima go see them at rock the bells along with rage and wu tang and cypress hill its going to be awsome!

GET ME TICKETS


Where is that gonna be... i'd kill to see it

[tharshmetalUK]

I play the guitar
I play the piano
I play the drums
I play the trumpet
I play the keyboard
I play the decks? this doesen't sound right, does it?:p

[lithiumkc]

I play the guitar
I play the piano
I play the drums
I play the trumpet
I play the keyboard
I play the decks? this doesen't sound right, does it?:p

Well i'm happy it took you a whole day to think of that post, but im pretty sure we finished this whole argument yesterday... so... let it go, like everyone else did.

[tharshmetalUK]

Well i'm happy it took you a whole day to think of that post, but im pretty sure we finished this whole argument yesterday... so... let it go, like everyone else did.

Unlike you mate some of us don't sit at work all day on the internet. We don't all slack off like you y'know

[NorrenRadd]

Many rap songs suck, but not all, so I voted no.

Amish Paradise, baby.

Quoted For Truth

[pure_rocker]

ya rap sucks i like one rap song and its public enemy but only bring tha noize because they did it with anthrax

[newwaytodie]

I'm still waiting for a "Rap Hero" or "Rap Band" (if that's even possible) to see how well it sells. I think we'd all have a good laugh.

Oh wait, rap fans are too busy buying weed and rims and cellular phone ring tones that annoy eveyone. Second thought, not a very good business venture... Maybe that's why HMX hasn't done one yet.

[pure_rocker]

rap doesnt usually have a band just reused beats from previously performed songs and rap hero wouldnt work because it would be a kareoke game with no tones just words and timing

it would be funny though

[tharshmetalUK]

rap doesnt usually have a band just reused beats from previously performed songs and rap hero wouldnt work because it would be a kareoke game with no tones just words and timing

it would be funny though

Would it have a ****ty deck controller like the guitar do u think?

[pure_rocker]

ya lol hopefully the rock band accesories are higher quality

especially the drums

[SpeedMetal09]

i really only trully like two rap groups and those are NWA and Three 6 Mafia

[newwaytodie]

http://www.makezine.com/blog/FYE0C9RZBXEPD7QZ9X.large.jpg

[newwaytodie]

http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/amg/games/drg200/g201/g20190bd5nn.jpg

[newwaytodie]

http://www.gamergirlsunite.com/reviews/getonthemic/great.jpg

http://www.mtv.com/games/video_games/images/promoimages/d/dime/music_games/get_on_da_mic.jpg

http://cdn.channels.aol.com/ch_gamedaily/ss/3143/screens/3143_03.jpg

http://www.gamerevolution.com/images/games/ps2/get_on_da_mic/get_on_da_mic_003.jpg

LOL!

[pure_rocker]

what are those pics of?

[newwaytodie]

what are those pics of?

Quite possibly the worst "game" ever created in the history of mankind.

Get On Da Mic.

I reccomend you only ever see these 4 images, looking at more is hazardous to your health.

[lithiumkc]

Unlike you mate some of us don't sit at work all day on the internet. We don't all slack off like you y'know

Too bad, it's extremely fulfilling. I guess its really only slacking off if the work doesn't get done... and it does.... so... it's part of the job :o

[tharshmetalUK]

http://www.gamergirlsunite.com/reviews/getonthemic/great.jpg

http://www.mtv.com/games/video_games/images/promoimages/d/dime/music_games/get_on_da_mic.jpg

http://cdn.channels.aol.com/ch_gamedaily/ss/3143/screens/3143_03.jpg

http://www.gamerevolution.com/images/games/ps2/get_on_da_mic/get_on_da_mic_003.jpg

LOL!


LOL I can't believe this is an actual game.

[Demoneyeskyo44]

GET ME TICKETS


Where is that gonna be... i'd kill to see it

go the site its rockthebells.com or it might be .net... if anything just google it!

and the tickets normal are 50 vip i think is 150 but i heard you get to meet everybody

[wwaballafoshosho]

i said yes but i meant no
i only like 3OH!3 and 36Mafia
and like Snoop and Dre
but check out 3OH!3 they dope as hell
and they are like made from Grace Gale which is a screamo band from colorado
theyre sik
and so is W.W.A. (search him on myspace)

[newwaytodie]

i said yes but i meant no
i only like 3OH!3 and 36Mafia
and like Snoop and Dre
but check out 3OH!3 they dope as hell
and they are like made from Grace Gale which is a screamo band from colorado
theyre sik
and so is W.W.A. (search him on myspace)

Everything about this post proves my point about people who listen to rap.

[wwaballafoshosho]

no the ratio of rap to rock in my library is like 1:50
i barely listen to rap and 3OH!3 is joke rap and so is W.W.A. (cause thats me)
and 36mafia is just sik
so im not a rap fan
i just listen to the good stuff every now and again

[lithiumkc]

Everything about this post proves my point about people who listen to rap.

"Once again stating your opinion as fact, hey newway?"

[Keagan2387]

Most of this thread is ignorant bull****tttttttttt, I can't believe people actually think like this. I love IQ's lower then penny cent candy.

[devo193]

Most rap sucks. Theres only been one CD that I've ever liked and that was Deltron 3030. But that was more hip hop and techno than anything.




Remember kids!

Rap = ******s Attempting Poetry!

[Demoneyeskyo44]

Most of this thread is ignorant bull****tttttttttt, I can't believe people actually think like this. I love IQ's lower then penny cent candy.

totally agree

[GARahn]

Rap, for the most part, does definitely suck. There is, however, some rap that isn't that bad.

[battle_axe_of_doom]

actually there is more than just "some" rap that isn't bad. hell bands like public enemy and a tribe called quest are some of the best bands of all time.

[no_direction_home]

god damn i hate rap they just talking about slapping *****es and smoking crack

[MrGrieves]

I used to listen to rap, Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg stuff like that but over the years I just stopped caring about rap.

Every new rapper nowdays sounds exactly like the last one, if you think about it rap hasn't changed much since its heyday

[Rockerman]

Rap use to be good.Back in the day where you had Mos Def,2Pac,Beastie Boys,Notorious B.I.G.The Roots, etc.Nowa days all rap is now *****y thanks to likes of 50 Cent and all those MTV wannabes.But you can't completely say all rap sucks.Just don't listein to the crap on MTV.Kinda like how Punk,Rock and Country have been ruiened.Even metal isin't as good as it use to be.All you can do is listein back to good times where music was always good:)

[Tazeyo]

Hey hey!
I love rap all of it.
The not so good nowadays stuff like 50cent, Grandmaster Flex, Snoop Dogg, you name it.
They all just know what life really is. It's so close to my reality and I relate to it.

I also hate it how people say it's not music. It IS music. If you say it's not music then there will be many other ryhtmic genres of music classified as "not music".
It's like saying Modern Art isn't Art.

[newwaytodie]

Modern art isn't art.

Grafitti is not art either.

[dlisapussy]

Modern rap does suck. To that affect it does but old school was very poetic.

Though being black I may be a little biased. Even so I must say yes it does suck and has inevitably gone from poeticly unique to mainstream pop.

It's just techno with yelling about the same dumb stereotypes. Pointless.


In a way it's like rock... Some rock sucks, some doesn't. **Most doesn't
Some rock is about nothing, some rock is extremely poetic.
Some rap is about nothing, some rap is extremely poetic.

Some rap songs have a good meaning to the lyrics, some rap songs have good guitar riffs, some rap songs have incredible bass lines, some rap songs have sweet drum beats, some rap songs have SINGING that isn't half bad.

You just need to stop stereotyping rap as ''techno with yelling about the same dumb stereotypes."

My favorite band is the Beatles, my favorite genre is classic rock, but I found rap that is good. With rap, you need to dig deep and find good rappers, you can't go on MTV and find a good rap group or rapper. Don't worry rap haters, I know there is such thing as good rap

[Tazeyo]

Modern art isn't art.

Grafitti is not art either.

I'd have to say no to that my luv.

As Modern art sadly is art.

Graffiti is like a spin-off though, but it could be counted as contemporary art.

[Tazeyo]

In a way it's like rock... Some rock sucks, some doesn't. **Most doesn't
Some rock is about nothing, some rock is extremely poetic.
Some rap is about nothing, some rap is extremely poetic.

Some rap songs have a good meaning to the lyrics, some rap songs have good guitar riffs, some rap songs have incredible bass lines, some rap songs have sweet drum beats, some rap songs have SINGING that isn't half bad.

You just need to stop stereotyping rap as ''techno with yelling about the same dumb stereotypes."

My favorite band is the Beatles, my favorite genre is classic rock, but I found rap that is good. With rap, you need to dig deep and find good rappers, you can't go on MTV and find a good rap group or rapper. Don't worry rap haters, I know there is such thing as good rap

After saying that, I could fall in love with you really.

[newwaytodie]

I petitioned people to prove me wrong by posting good rappers. Some (very few) people responded. I'm not about to waste my time digging through the proverbial haystack in order to find some rap that is actually good. It's really a bad ratio of good rap to bad. I titled the post "rap sucks" partially to attract attention (which was successful) but also to hear about rap that didn't "suck".

So please enlighten me. And I don't wanna hear about 2pac and biggie, I've already listened to the roots and mos def, I don't want some imbecile rapping about hoes and crack, shooting people with various types of guns, shiny new 20' rims, 40's, weed, money power respect blah blah, *****es sucking penises. All that sh*t just furthers the stereotypes of black males in america.

I want to hear about real stuff. I get off on angry political rage'ish stuff so theres a start.

[newwaytodie]

I'd have to say no to that my luv.

As Modern art sadly is art.

Graffiti is like a spin-off though, but it could be counted as contemporary art.

You're right as far as people accepting it as art.

If enough people say it is, then it is. That's our society.

[dlisapussy]

Newwaytodie,


I want you to download or buy the CD 'Friends And Nervous Breakdowns' by Weerd Science

Weerd Science is a one man group
The man's name is Joshua.
He is the drummer for Coheed And Cambria.
He's really Jewish, and he's one hell of a rapper.
He does his own beats, too.

I think you might like it.
If you don't like it, then I guess you just don't like rap.
And if you don't like rap, it's fine by me.

I just hate when people say rap sucks when they've never really discovered it.

LISTEN TO ATMOSPHERE!
Hes good, too.

[newwaytodie]

I'll check them out.

[Tazeyo]

You're right as far as people accepting it as art.

If enough people say it is, then it is. That's our society.

Well, there's a difference between Graffiti and tagging or other no to so artistic thingies.
Some graffities are hell of a cool, artistic, things. That will be gone in a month or so. Haha's. I won't take this topic more off-topic, aye.

Ice-T? Good Rapper. Yes.

[GameWiz68]

rap was formed from rock.

like poetic songs of the rock genere like holy diver for example.

[franknfurter1000]

I hate most rap, but I love Beastie Boys, Public Enemy, Run DMC, Cypress Hill, and Wu Tang Clan.

[Dj_uCw]

I love rap, rap is my music even if most of you don't agree with me I don't care.
I like to listen to Reggaeton and Hip hop.
:o

[battle_axe_of_doom]

UGHHHHHHH

as a mexicoon living in deep deep south texas (basically the southern most tip) i gotta say reggaeton is the worst genre of "music" on earth. daddy yankee can go suck a cock and choke on it

but 90s rap rulezzzzzzzz

[The_Wurm]

This is how i feel about rap.


Club rap sucks ass holes, I like all other rap(especially the roots, gangstarr, NWA, Public Enemy, MF Doom, Erik B & Rakim)




That is all.

[Tazeyo]

"A ella le gusta la gasolina, dame dame mas gasolina!"

[Daywalker69]

Rap and Hip-Hop was good in the 80's and some of the 90's. Recently it's just sucked SO much.

[dlisapussy]

Rap and Hip-Hop was good in the 80's and some of the 90's. Recently it's just sucked SO much.

very true

good rap is kinda hard to find these days

[battle_axe_of_doom]

there are good artists but like you said its hard to find. pretty much anyone that is even associated with the def jux label rulez

[ANGYOU]

I voted that it sucked only because I voted in terms of its current state.

It proceeded to suck when it was changed from an artform to what it is now (there's not even a word for it.)

[axlroseftw]

theres only 2 good rap/ hip hop songs.

rappers delight- sugar hill gang
and
walk this way- aerosmith/ whatever band was with them


other than that all rap is repetative useless crap songs about the same "gangstas" and "hoes"

[lithiumkc]

theres only 2 good rap/ hip hop songs.

rappers delight- sugar hill gang
and
walk this way- aerosmith/ whatever band was with them


other than that all rap is repetative useless crap songs about the same "gangstas" and "hoes"

Fail

The only 2 good rock songs are Benny And The Jets and Immigrant Song

All rock is about satan and drugs then

Disagree with that statement? Then you cannot believe the one you just made.

[axlroseftw]

question... if you think there are only 2 good rock songs then why are you on a forum titled " ROCK" band?

[battle_axe_of_doom]

question... are you ******ed and don't understand the point he was trying to get across??

in case you are he's trying to say that ur statement was the most insanely ignorant statement evor cuz rap isn't about just "hos" and ****.

[psyborg]

Mainstream Rap sucks so I voted yes, but there is a such thing as really good hiphop, Del the Funky Homosapien comes to mind.

[dlisapussy]

Fail

The only 2 good rock songs are Benny And The Jets and Immigrant Song

All rock is about satan and drugs then

Disagree with that statement? Then you cannot believe the one you just made.


true dat.

like i said before... Rap itself has turned into a stereotype. Theres good rap out there you just gotta find it.

[battle_axe_of_doom]

except that its not that ****ing hard to find good rap. some of the most mainstream **** during the 80s and early 90s is basically wut good rap is. also you might have to actually "look" for these but mostly any rap group who's on the def jux label pretty much rulez

[newwaytodie]

except that its not that ****ing hard to find good rap.

Yes it is. Like I've said before, name some good rap.

[dlisapussy]

80's and 90's rap is already found. It WAS mainstream in the 80's and 90's, it was popular. Mainstream rap now is A STEREOTYPE, but it also sucks. Good rap, which is usually political songs or stories, is very very hard to find. I'm not talking about the really good 80's-90's ****. I'm talking about the underground, underrated 00's ****.

[newwaytodie]

That's what I'm talking about too. Everyone always has the same response about rap, "It was good back in the day" well guess what, I lived back in the day. I already listened to all that "Good Ole Rap" and I was an idiot. I think it is terrible now and the only reason I thought it was cool then was because I was ignorant.

So the challenge still stands, name some good rap music.

[dlisapussy]

Weerd Science, Atmosphere, Jedi Mind Tricks, Wu-Tang Clan, OutKast (andre can rap fast as ****)

those are my favs around today

[lithiumkc]

Weerd Science, Atmosphere, Jedi Mind Tricks, Wu-Tang Clan, OutKast (andre can rap fast as ****)

those are my favs around today

danger mouse
danger doom [mf doom + danger mouse]
talib kweli
tonedeff
saul williams

Theres a bunch more for ya newway. People have been naming them the entire thread, yet you keep asking for names. Theres 10 right there.

[battle_axe_of_doom]

mos def, aesop rock, murs, cannibal ox, jedi mind tricks, most of the more famous rap groups of the 80s/90s were great (ice cube, dre, snoopz,), a tribe called quest, list goes on and on

[newwaytodie]

most of the more famous rap groups of the 80s/90s were great (ice cube, dre, snoopz

http://www.43rdstateblues.com/images/lumberg.jpg

I'm going to have to go ahead and sort of, disagree with you there.

[battle_axe_of_doom]

lmao perfect office space usage :thumbsup:

[Smidget]

For most of current day rap you hear on the radio (and much of what you don't), this pretty much rings true "It's destructive, cliched, stereotypical, ethnically offensive, garbage." But in the past 10 years, when has radio ever fully represented what truly is out there in a particular genre?

Also, you have to remember that rap isn't anywhere near as old as rock. Its easy as hell to find good rock because its been around so long. There is good rap out there to find, it just might take a litte more effort than asking a friend "hey, can you recommend some rap for me" or going to the new release wall at Best Buy. Rap as a genre doesn't suck, the rap artists who focus on the above stated elements (destructive, cliched..) suck. People say "i liked it back when..." because there was less of that crap around. But even though the genre is so flooded with that stuff nowadays, there are rappers (many stated in this thread) who are not contributing to that, who's lyrical content actually represents them trying to influence the world view on subject matter that needs to be spoken about and general subject matter that just actually matters. I'm not saying these type of artists don't exist in other genres, I just want to point at that they DO also exist in current day rap; they just might be harder to find. But really, in recent years, when have we not had to dig a little further to find the good stuff in any genre? Rap does not suck.

[Julio-Claudius]

http://www.43rdstateblues.com/images/lumberg.jpg

I'm going to have to go ahead and sort of, disagree with you there.

http://www.43rdstateblues.com/images/lumberg.jpg

I'm going to have to go ahead and sort of, disagree with you there.

Doctor Dre, Snoop, and Ice Cube were some of the greatest rap artists of all time. They were influential when rap stood for something more than banging *****ez in da club and 25-inch rims.

[newwaytodie]

Stood for what? Posing at being hard? Pretending that they were "gangstas" talking about shooting each other and smoking pot? Having sex with promiscuous women?

Sorry rap is the same now as it was then.

[tharshmetalUK]

Ive tried listening to some of the rappers mentioned on this thread and im sorry it still sucks. Its not classed as music in my view, its absolute garbage I don't even know what I was thinking even giving it a chance! LONG LIVE METAL!!!

[newwaytodie]

^

Lol!!!!!!!!

[Julio-Claudius]

Stood for what? Posing at being hard? Pretending that they were "gangstas" talking about shooting each other and smoking pot? Having sex with promiscuous women?

Sorry rap is the same now as it was then.

Posing? Dre, Easy E, and Snoop were dirt poor. They WERE gangsters. The told us about their life, that's what gangster rap was. Now it's all about boasting how much money you have.

[newwaytodie]

So what if they were? Criminal behavior, fictitious or not, is not a reason for me to like rap. Quite the contrary actually.

[Julio-Claudius]

So what if they were? Criminal behavior, fictitious or not, is not a reason for me to like rap. Quite the contrary actually.
Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but calling Dre and Snoop "posers" is an ill-informed insult.

[senomar]

Late 80's and 90's hip-hop is good, I guess. MIMS, Jibbs, and all this new hip-hop **** is the worst music ever made.

[Phrank-E]

I heard that Fitty Sent said that if he doesn't outsell Kanye when they are released next month, He will quit making Cds altogether and retire..

For the love of all humanity.. EVERYONE go out and buy 20 Kanye CDs :) Tell all your friends to do the same....

[newwaytodie]

Yeah, I read that.... You know what the sad thing is? He WILL outsell Kanye. That's rap for ya.

[army_of_me]

Weerd Science, Atmosphere, Jedi Mind Tricks, Wu-Tang Clan, OutKast (andre can rap fast as ****)

those are my favs around today

Hell yeah, Outkast. Stankonia stands as probably THE rap album.

Atmosphere, Aesop Rock, Cee-Lo, A Tribe Called Quest, Beastie Boys, Mos Def, Kanye, Dizzie Rascal, Nas, Jay-Z, K-Os, De La Soul. The Roots practically are a rock band.

The old school stuff is fun to sing along to but a lot of it seems dated and corny in retrospect. The early 90's stuff (Vanilla Ice, MC Hammer, Sir Mix-A-Lot) was catchy but dumb. Gangsta rap never appealed to me but there's a few decent tunes. And yes, the state of modern (pop) rap blows. A number of rappers would agree with that statement too.

[lithiumkc]

I heard that Fitty Sent said that if he doesn't outsell Kanye when they are released next month, He will quit making Cds altogether and retire..

For the love of all humanity.. EVERYONE go out and buy 20 Kanye CDs :) Tell all your friends to do the same....

This in my opinion is a hidden marketing ploy to combat illegal distribution. People think 'Oh ****, I like 50 cent. I download his songs now but if i download them this time kanye will outsell him and he won't make more music. I better buy the CD'. Maybe not all people, but a lot more people will buy it rather than download it if threatened with no new material [Disguised threats, IMO]

Just my take on it. Seems logical enough.

[newwaytodie]

People in the hood don't have computers man. You either buy it or steal it. (more often the latter)

[Kang_Zircon]

People in the hood don't have computers man. And even more rich, suburban white kids listen to rap music...

[newwaytodie]

This is true. But rather, which of the two do said rich white suburbanites listen to? I'm putting my money on fiddy.

[Kang_Zircon]

So I guess if is music doesn't sell well enough, he'll retire and take up acting? I can see next season's CW pilots already...

[newwaytodie]

OR, He'll fake his own death and continue to release "previously unheard demo tapes" to a mass of unwitting morons.

[MotleyPriest111]

rap blows (Notice the lack of capitalization since it is not a proper noun).

[Demoneyeskyo44]

I said it once and I'm going to say it again

WU TANG CLAN AINT NUTHIN TO F*CK WIT!!!

[tharshmetalUK]

I said it once and I'm going to say it again

WU TANG CLAN AINT NUTHIN TO F*CK WIT!!!

They're nothing to listen to either.

[Tomahawk214]

Nothing beats Run DMC and Sugarhill Gang. Back when Rap wasn't mandatory to have all this gang ****.

[outofcontrol]

not all rap is about shooting or who is sleeping with who. back then will smith didnt sing about shooting or beatin the crap out of people all he sang was about parents. eminem sometimes talks about killing but he says it in a story and sometimes in a funny way. like i said NOT ALL RAP IS ABOUT KILLING

[MotleyPriest111]

Yeah. Will Smith sang about what movies he was in. Real great.





P.S. Will Smith's movies kick ass, but his songs suck.

[outofcontrol]

well at least not all his song. the greatest will smith song has to be "the fresh prince of bel-air" intro, i love that show . i own all 4 seasons on dvd.

[JakeFatal]

well let me say i love 80s and early 90s rap/hip hop it was great back then.

[Kang_Zircon]

I think the biggest problem I have with rap is that it focuses so much on the lyrical aspect and so little on the music. Most pop rap/hip-hop is just spoken word played with a looping segment of some older song and a bass beat. When I hear things like Kashmir, Canon, Under Pressure, and about half of all Stevie Wonder's songs being used in a rap song I get really irritated.

I guess on some level I could appreciate rap as a form of poetry, but for the most part, not as music.

[Julio-Claudius]

P.S. Will Smith's movies kick ass
LQTM haha!

[ajrapper]

to say rap sucks u are extremely childish. no genre sucks. its simply what your taste is. truth is that hip-hop and rap are either about nonesense or are very deep. take the band "Fort Minor" for example. threir hip-hop songs are very deep and they have some fun ones. "Where'd You Go", "Kenji", "Cigarettes", "Back Home" etc. they have deep songs. almost all people have at least a few hip-hop or rap songs they like

[Julio-Claudius]

to say rap sucks u are extremely childish. no genre sucks. its simply what your taste is. truth is that hip-hop and rap are either about nonesense or are very deep. take the band "Fort Minor" for example. threir hip-hop songs are very deep and they have some fun ones. "Where'd You Go", "Kenji", "Cigarettes", "Back Home" etc. they have deep songs. almost all people have at least a few hip-hop or rap songs they like

2 not use proper grammar and spelling u look extremely childish.

And emo sucks monkey balls. More the people than the music, though.

[Phrank-E]

People in the hood don't have computers man. You either buy it or steal it. (more often the latter)

Ahh, I see you have no black friends.. Lemme explain something. There is an indoor flea market down by the "Hood." It's called the Magic Mall. It used to be a Kmart or something way back in the day. Anyway it is where you go to buy sneakers, Extensions, speakers, baby clothes and fake bling and all that ridiculous crap that black folk like to waste money on.

You'll likely not want to believe this.. But it is the gospel truth.. There is a music stand in there that will burn you any CD you want, Right then and there. Or any compilation of songs. Now I haven't been in there for awhile. But they were in operation for years and likely still are. Although even a hood rat must know at least one other hood who has a computer by now.

[theLoser]

its okIMO

theLoser

[newwaytodie]

Ahh, I see you have no black friends.. Lemme explain something. There is an indoor flea market down by the "Hood." It's called the Magic Mall. It used to be a Kmart or something way back in the day. Anyway it is where you go to buy sneakers, Extensions, speakers, baby clothes and fake bling and all that ridiculous crap that black folk like to waste money on.

You'll likely not want to believe this.. But it is the gospel truth.. There is a music stand in there that will burn you any CD you want, Right then and there. Or any compilation of songs. Now I haven't been in there for awhile. But they were in operation for years and likely still are. Although even a hood rat must know at least one other hood who has a computer by now.

Oh... You know I totally forgot about that. I had this guy who always offered to "get" me anything I wanted. Movies, CD's, whatever. $5 bucks a pop. Of course I never needed to, I have a computer that I absolutely do NOT use for piracy, but I was flattered that he asked.

The place was called Dixieland where I lived. (which is funny and ironic, but not because it's a reference to slavery) I liken the experience to a street market in Bangladesh. Only crowded with angry black people.

[outofcontrol]

why are you guys bringin up african americans? sounds like most of you dont have any minority friends.

[newwaytodie]

Wrong. I do.

[Julio-Claudius]

why are you guys bringin up african americans? sounds like most of you dont have any minority friends.
By minority you mean black obviously. **** political correctness.

Many colleges now demand higher GPAs to accept whites that other races. Case in point, several community colleges in my area accept a 2.5 GPA for any race other than white. If you're white, you have to have a 3.0 GPA. Whites get called "racist" and "bigots" when they have a "white pride" bumper sticker on their car, but when somebody has a "Mexican Pride" or "black pride" bumper sticker, they get cheers and are respected. Think about who's the minority now.

All people may have been created equal, but they certainly aren't treated like it.

[Julio-Claudius]

It's destructive
And moshpits aren't?


cliched
And metal isn't? Almost all of the songs are about sex, war/violence, and anti-establishment mentalities.


stereotypical
Long hair? Angry? That's about 80% of all metal fans.


ethnically offensive
*cues skinhead metal, Norweigan Satanist metal*


garbage.
You sound like my mother when she listened to Master of Puppets.

[gh2masterwellalmost]

Old school rap is the shiz... new age stuff is garbage.... I liked it back when it meant something

"the shiz". Good to know rap fans aren't sterotypical pillocks who can't speak english and speak the language I like to call "Ali-G".....

Rap sucked before. It sucked now. It rates down there with screamo. I'm sorry... Radiohead, Foo Fighters or [insert Rock band of your choice here] or listening to 50 Cent talking about his "hoes" for 20 mins... no wonder he was shot....

[outofcontrol]

"the shiz". Good to know rap fans aren't sterotypical pillocks who can't speak english and speak the language I like to call "Ali-G".....

Rap sucked before. It sucked now. It rates down there with screamo. I'm sorry... Radiohead, Foo Fighters or [insert Rock band of your choice here] or listening to 50 Cent talking about his "hoes" for 20 mins... no wonder he was shot....

just because there some that like to use slangs doesnt mean anything. they dont need to speak correctly iam pretty sure everyone on the boards use slang words.

[gh2masterwellalmost]

just because there some that like to use slangs doesnt mean anything. they dont need to speak correctly iam pretty sure everyone on the boards use slang words.

...............meh.

[newwaytodie]

ethnically offensive


*cues skinhead metal, Norweigan Satanist metal*

They're not playing that stuff on the radio, at the mall, in the stores I shop at, passing by random cars on the road, or anywhere else I would have to be involuntarily exposed to it.

So I am perpetually forced to listen to inappropriate lyrical content being masqueraded as "popular" a veritable Trojan horse of filth.

And if I listen to some slayer in public, oh boy watch out... cause it obviously means I'm a single brain-celled, ignorant skin-head, waste of life. When they're the ones talking about whats REALLY going on in this effed up world we live in! It's brainwashing mind pollution man, cleanse yourself of it. Suck the poison from the wound.

[ajrapper]

2 not use proper grammar and spelling u look extremely childish.

And emo sucks monkey balls. More the people than the music, though.

if this was an important thing, i would use proper grammar and spelling. but its not so im not gonna waste my time. i have work to do. and im not too fond of emo either...aside from Taking Back Sunday

[idiotec]

I voted "No" however I do think the majority of rap sucks. There are some good ones out there though, they just don't get air play. Check out:

Blackalicious
Dr. Octagon
The Streets
Handsome Boy Modeling School
Del the Funkee Homosapien
The Roots
DJ Shadow (not rap but is hip hop)

[Desensitized]

I mostly like old school rap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-hRqN0h9Y8

My favorite rap/hip-hop song ever^

[Simonious]

Does Nerdcore rap count? If so, then no. If not... then still no. I like a couple rap artists.

[fmxkyle]

rap is the most talentless load of crap ever to call itself music

[Julio_No_Mas]

Bumping an awesome thread here...