Unintentional Trolling of Mike Portnoy

[toymachineSH]

http://bit.ly/81bWsK this guy almost had a huge unintentional troll of Mike Portnoy but instead he went back on his own words.

Most songs about loved ones dying are cheesy.

Unless your song is called Wings for Marie/10,000 Days >_>

Seeing Mike's post though it kind of reminds me of that South Park episode when Radiohead showed up... Yeah you get the picture

[bmaninc]

Wow, those are hardcore fans.

[ThunderCurls]

I don't get it.

[toymachineSH]

the guy doesn't like the lyrics of the song that Mike (the drummer of Dream Theater) wrote so he posts about them and points out how cheesy and redundant they are.

Mike Portnoy himself posts and calls out the person saying he "doesn't deserve to listen to the song" and how it's insulting to say such things because the song is about his father dying, played at his funeral people cried, etc.

[ThunderCurls]

Yes I understand that, but how is it trolling? He unintentionally pissed Mike Portnoy off, you can't unintentionally troll somebody.

[Zeleii]

Yes I understand that, but how is it trolling? He unintentionally pissed Mike Portnoy off, you can't unintentionally troll somebody.

Uh yeah you can

[ThunderCurls]

Uh yeah you can

Being a troll is an intentional act, your whole job is to intentionally piss people off.

There is no such thing as an unintentional troll.

[cheng2009]

This is pretty much a non-event. It's the internet, words get minced all the time.

[bubblegumpop]

Wow that guy just curled up into a ball once portnoy posted lol.

[Zeleii]

Being a troll is an intentional act, your whole job is to intentionally piss people off.

There is no such thing as an unintentional troll.

Or you can be considered a troll by being up front and ignorant to begin with. Others will perceive you as a troll, when you're just being yourself.

[Cpt. Overkill]

Does it really ****ing matter? >_>

[Zeleii]

Does it really ****ing matter? >_>
Ok this topic is now about how awesome Joe Flacco is. Better?



Joe Flacco is so awesome he doesn't let picks get into his head, he gets right out on the field and does it again

[Cpt. Overkill]

<33333

[kiggidykev]

In my opinion, he wasn't trolling. He was expressing his view on the lyrics of a song in a reflective way.

It's obvious that Portnoy feels strongly about this song and reacted as such, regardless of the severity of the comments made against it. From the look of it, he just didn't want to accept any criticism about the song, and the way he lashed out at the poster was far more severe than the comments made against the song in the first place.

[davidshek]

In my opinion, he wasn't trolling. He was expressing his view on the lyrics of a song in a reflective way.

It's obvious that Portnoy feels strongly about this song and reacted as such, regardless of the severity of the comments made against it. From the look of it, he just didn't want to accept any criticism about the song, and the way he lashed out at the poster was far more severe than the comments made against the song in the first place.

He probably wasn't meaning to troll, but he probably also didn't know that MP frequently posts on his own forum. So yeah, I can see where the "unintentional troll" comment would come from.

Lyrics are an intensely personal thing, especially a lot of the ones that MP has written about his family, and especially this one song that he wrote for his father. I don't think his reaction was overboard at all.

[ThunderCurls]

Or you can be considered a troll by being up front and ignorant to begin with. Others will perceive you as a troll, when you're just being yourself.

What others perceive you as being is totally irrelevant. You can not be an unintentional troll.

[bermuddy]

seems to me like portnoy is the troll.

[Der_Lex]

Portnoy's usually a pretty relaxed guy, so it's odd to see him lose his cool like this. Still, considering the subject of the lyrics I can understand why he'd get angry at the less than tactful post by the guy in question. Another example of why people should learn that having an opinion is one thing, but expressing it in a thoughtful and tactful manner is another. Being needlessly harsh and then hiding behind a 'but...but it's my opinion' is weak and shows your rhetorical skills haven't moved beyond an elementary school level yet. I'd say this applies to both Portnoy and the other guy in this case.

[bermuddy]

art is always up for debate. while i agree the guy in question may have been less than polite about it. could he have phrased things better? i think so, but portnoy is totally out line.

[Oscar-Rio]

I think they both look the fool in this case.

[Der_Lex]

Art is always up for debate, but the creator's personal forum might not be the best place to tactlessly slam lyrics of a very personal nature.

[bmaninc]

The guy made a post about his opinion on the song. If Portnoy can't handle criticism, he likely shouldn't read the Internet.

I keep hearing this in the Rock Band subforum, and its funny because it actually applies here:
Its a sad day when you can't disagree on the Internet.

[bermuddy]

Art is always up for debate, but the creator's personal forum might not be the best place to tactlessly slam lyrics of a very personal nature.

agreed, but portnoy's reaction seems to be a tad over the top. just going over the lyrics (as im no DT fan and i have no idea what the song sounds like) he uses the word "day" more than a "days inn" commercial

[Der_Lex]

Although I agree that Portnoy went way too far with the vehemence of his response, I think the fact that it's his personal forum is rather relevant here. If people come into my house and say things I don't like and consider insulting, I'm going to kick them out as well. It might not be fair, but it is his privilege. It's his place, after all.

[davidshek]

The guy made a post about his opinion on the song. If Portnoy can't handle criticism, he likely shouldn't read the Internet.

No, the guy made a completely d-bag post about the song. On the lyricist's own personal forum. And he even admitted that later in the thread in his 2 apology posts.

[Mex]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the dudes post to be honest.

And I don't think there is anything wrong with Portnoy's response.

[Apples]

Not so much trolling as awkward foot-in-mouth situation.

[bermuddy]

No, the guy made a completely d-bag post about the song. On the lyricist's own personal forum. And he even admitted that later in the thread in his 2 apology posts.

i got more of a "OMG it's mike portnoy" vibe. if it had been you or me i can almost guarantee the guy wouldnt be apologizing.

[Mex]

i got more of a "OMG it's mike portnoy" vibe. if it had been you or me i can almost guarantee the guy wouldnt be apologizing.

I'm with you on this one. It was amusing to see the dude come back later like "But...but MIKE I LOVE YOUUUUUUUUUU!"

[ThunderCurls]

I'm pretty sure a little bit of poop came out when he realized Portnoy had posted.

[Mega-Tallica]

seems to me like portnoy is the troll.

Sorry, but this is not true at all, Mike Portnoy is one of the nicest guys in the music business. He probably just got ticked off to the point where he couldn't hold back. The song is about his father and I'm sure the lyrics mean a lot to him. Imagine somebody criticising the lyrics to a song you wrote about your father, I'd be pissed too.

[bermuddy]

i dont have a problem with the guy criticizing the lyrics and i dont have a problem with portnoy answering back. i do have a problem with the way portnoy responded... especially with the "i dont care if i lose you as a fan" bit.

[Mega-Tallica]

i dont have a problem with the guy criticizing the lyrics and i dont have a problem with portnoy answering back. i do have a problem with the way portnoy responded... especially with the "i dont care if i lose you as a fan" bit.

He's got millions of fans, I'm sure he won't care if he loses one;)

[kiggidykev]

i dont have a problem with the guy criticizing the lyrics and i dont have a problem with portnoy answering back. i do have a problem with the way portnoy responded... especially with the "i dont care if i lose you as a fan" bit.

I agree with you, Mud. The cussing and name-calling seemed really petty to me.

Lyrics are personal, that I can understand. But if you're willing to share your work with the world, then expect feedback or criticism and don't expect it all to be nice (especially online, haha). I don't care if it's on your band's official forum, in a newspaper, or written on a bathroom stall: criticism is criticism, and the way that a person deals with or responds to it speaks volumes about their character.

[Banky71]

If the song was so personal that he didn't want anyone to comment maybe he should have kept it between him and his family.

[afterstasis]

yikes, those are some bad lyrics.

[bermuddy]

exactly my point, kev.


He's got millions of fans, I'm sure he won't care if he loses one;)
he should care if he loses one. the stance he took is very condescending towards all of his fans. the "what's one fan when i have a million?" is a total jerk move. especially when those fans are lining his pockets with money.

[Lameboy19]

I love how as soon as Mike posts, EVERYONE starts sucking him off, I always get a kick out of the hardcore DT fans

[ThunderCurls]

I love how as soon as Mike posts, EVERYONE starts sucking him off, I always get a kick out of the hardcore DT fans

Like it's any different here whenever an employee of HMX post.

[Lameboy19]

Like it's any different here whenever an employee of HMX post.

I guess I'm not in those threads too often..

[bmaninc]

If the song was so personal that he didn't want anyone to comment maybe he should have kept it between him and his family.


he should care if he loses one. the stance he took is very condescending towards all of his fans. the "what's one fan when i have a million?" is a total jerk move. especially when those fans are lining his pockets with money.


i got more of a "OMG it's mike portnoy" vibe. if it had been you or me i can almost guarantee the guy wouldnt be apologizing.


No, the guy made a completely d-bag post about the song. On the lyricist's own personal forum. And he even admitted that later in the thread in his 2 apology posts.

He didn't like the lyrics. He acknowledged that it was a personal song, and that the instrumental part is great, but that he didn't like the lyrics.

Read the song lyrics and tell me he's way off with the "day" thing he brought up. The song includes that word more than a few times. He maintained he was a DT fan, but simply didn't like the song.

That seems like a fair criticism to me.

The only reason this is an issue is because Portnoy couldn't take criticism (are they not allowed to criticize now and again, even on his own forum?) and he basically blasted one of his fans.

If he can't take criticism, he maybe shouldn't have released the song to the general public and kept it in-house.

The fan wouldn't have apologized if Portnoy hadn't entered the thread. Obviously, the fan looks up to Mike, and doesn't want to lose his respect. I doubt Mike cussing him out would cause him to feel differently abotu the lyrics, in all honesty.

Also, I'd love for someone to post this thread in that forum and invite him here to discuss as well.

(I agree with the quoted posts above).

[davidshek]

Read the song lyrics and tell me he's way off with the "day" thing he brought up. The song includes that word more than a few times. He maintained he was a DT fan, but simply didn't like the song.

That seems like a fair criticism to me.

Really? The "day" thing is the point you chose to use to defend him? The fact that he used that word a few more times makes the lyrics "so embarrassingly cringeworthy", as PetFish stated? I've listened to that album dozens of times, so I'm well aware of the lyrics to that song. And honestly, who cares? Some of the most popular songs out there have completely inane lyrics.

Read the lyrics to "Smells Like Teen Spirit" sometime and tell me if they make any damn sense. How about In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida? Or pretty much any Beck song? Do you think anybody has ever listened to those songs and cried because of how deeply it touched them?

The overuse of the word "day" was the most nitpicky part of PetFish's post, and probably the most ridiculous as well. To call the entire set of lyrics "embarrassingly cringeworthy" because of that one little thing was just stupid and deserved every bit of flame it got from MP.

You can choose to agree with him all you want, but that doesn't make his post any less tactless and douchey.

[Mex]

Really? The "day" thing is the point you chose to use to defend him? The fact that he used that word a few more times makes the lyrics "so embarrassingly cringeworthy", as PetFish stated? I've listened to that album dozens of times, so I'm well aware of the lyrics to that song. And honestly, who cares? Some of the most popular songs out there have completely inane lyrics.

Read the lyrics to "Smells Like Teen Spirit" sometime and tell me if they make any damn sense. How about In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida? Or pretty much any Beck song? Do you think anybody has ever listened to those songs and cried because of how deeply it touched them?

The overuse of the word "day" was the most nitpicky part of PetFish's post, and probably the most ridiculous as well. To call the entire set of lyrics "embarrassingly cringeworthy" because of that one little thing was just stupid and deserved every bit of flame it got from MP.

You can choose to agree with him all you want, but that doesn't make his post any less tactless and douchey.

Meh. Just because you don't agree with that guy it doesn't mean his calling the lyrics "embarrassingly cringeworthy", stupid.

[bermuddy]

random guy on the internet is allowed to be an ass. mike portnoy isnt. he should have handled the situation without resorting to personal insults.

[Der_Lex]

random guy on the internet is allowed to be an ass. mike portnoy isnt.

Why? Why the difference? Why should Portnoy be held to higher standards?

As for him getting pissed off, it seems that's mostly because of the guy complaining that Portnoy 'should have put more thought into the lyrics'. If Portnoy had gotten this pissed off about the 'day' thing I would've agreed that he was way out of line with his reaction, but I can understand him getting angry when someone states that he didn't put any thoughts into lyrics about his dying father. That's just a douchebag comment, in lack of a better term.

I also have to admit that I don't interpret his words as 'I have so many fans I can afford to lose one', although I can see why some people would read it this way... I read it as 'I don't understand how you can call yourself a fan after writing something that nasty, so I can do without you'.

For the record, I'm not too fond of the lyrics either (or most of DT's lyrics, for that matter), but I'm tactful enough not to go on somebody's personal forum and tell him that he didn't put enough thought into the lyrics about his dying dad. Just because you have an opinion, doesn't mean you have to post it everywhere, or without being considerate in the way you phrase it.

[bmaninc]

Really? The "day" thing is the point you chose to use to defend him? The fact that he used that word a few more times makes the lyrics "so embarrassingly cringeworthy", as PetFish stated? I've listened to that album dozens of times, so I'm well aware of the lyrics to that song. And honestly, who cares? Some of the most popular songs out there have completely inane lyrics.

Read the lyrics to "Smells Like Teen Spirit" sometime and tell me if they make any damn sense. How about In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida? Or pretty much any Beck song? Do you think anybody has ever listened to those songs and cried because of how deeply it touched them?

The overuse of the word "day" was the most nitpicky part of PetFish's post, and probably the most ridiculous as well. To call the entire set of lyrics "embarrassingly cringeworthy" because of that one little thing was just stupid and deserved every bit of flame it got from MP.

You can choose to agree with him all you want, but that doesn't make his post any less tactless and douchey.

But you see, Portnoy has a much higher emotional connection to the song than anyone else. He seems very overprotective of it, like he can't take criticism. He let the opinion of one guy on the internet take hold of him to the point where he cussed the guy out. Not only is that unprofessional, it is just plain rude. Its true, Lex, people in the public spotlight should and are held to a higher standard than those people that are not. Their mistakes are amplified. I'll use a term from you, dave, and ask why MP's "douchey" post is okay, when in many respects, it was worse than the OP's? The OP's criticism is about the music. There were no personal attacks on MP, or DT. Mike's response was simply to attack the poster.

The point of forums is the sharing of opinions. If he opened those forums with the thought that all he would get are pats on the back, then he was sorely mistaken.

Also, I don't think he was calling the lyrics "cringeworthy" simply because of the overuse of the word "day". Just reading the lyrics, they aren't the gold standard of song writing, I think that much we can agree on.

[davidshek]

Meh. Just because you don't agree with that guy it doesn't mean his calling the lyrics "embarrassingly cringeworthy", stupid.

I'm not saying it does. The fact that I don't agree with him is irrelevant. It's stupid because song lyrics should not be judged on their poetic merit. Who cares if he used the word "day" 9 times?

[bermuddy]

the difference is that you can put a face to mike portnoy. he's not some random n00b. maybe its my fault for thinking he would be above petty bickering and name calling?

lex, i commend him for defending himself and his work, but the profanity is unnecessary. it's no different than one of the HMX higher ups doing that to a poster in one of the countless "fix this bug" thread.

[Mex]

I'm not saying it does. The fact that I don't agree with him is irrelevant. It's stupid because song lyrics should not be judged on their poetic merit. Who cares if he used the word "day" 9 times?

Why shouldn't they? And who decides what they should be judged on?

[davidshek]

Why shouldn't they? And who decides what they should be judged on?

Because they're not poems. They're song lyrics. Didn't we just go over this earlier? Look at all of the songs that have complete nonsense lyrics. Beck's "Loser" comes to mind. As does like 90% of Nirvana's songs.

Wait a second here, Mex. Are you actually defending this d-bag's actions, him saying that one of MP's most heartfelt-written songs needs "more thought"?? Or are you just playing devil's advocate for the fun of it?

[R33DH4M]

i agree with MP. It's his forum, he can say/do whatever he wants on it.

[Starfleet_Rambo]

i agree with MP. It's his forum, he can say/do whatever he wants on it.

Exactly.

I also don't blame Portnoy for losing his cool at some post on the internet.

He's still dealing with the loss of his father and it will be easy for him to get emotional about an insult to the song he wrote about him.

[toymachineSH]

So going into a room of Dream Theater fans (a room owned by Dream Theater's drummer) and saying the song about the Drummer's father on his deathbed is cheesy and cringe worthy isn't trolling?

I mean it wasn't his intention to be a troll but he became one, and if he stuck to what he thought about the song instead of subverting to:

OMG MP duzn't like me now /wrists

He would've been a hero to some instead of being an hero.

[bmaninc]

The guy has 1148 posts and has been signed up since 2002. Its not like he only signed up to say that.

[toymachineSH]

The guy has 1148 posts and has been signed up since 2002. Its not like he only signed up to say that.

Doesn't matter how long you lurk all it takes is one post to change people's opinion about you.

On a Buckethead messageboard I've been around on since 2004 someone made a crack about GH/RB saying that they should go outside, get a life etc. Since he was being immature I said yeah maybe they should go outside and do something... Like your mom.

Later I come back and find out his mom died (I was supposed to know this obviously) and how I'm a terrible person and I should be banned from the forum (I wasn't obviously).

Post count has nothing to do with it.

[Starfleet_Rambo]

Some of the most popular songs out there have completely inane lyrics.

A good reason I don't even pay attention to a song, lyric for lyric, anymore.

I just focus on understanding the overall meaning of the words and the emotional punch of the supporting music.

[Mex]

Because they're not poems. They're song lyrics. Didn't we just go over this earlier? Look at all of the songs that have complete nonsense lyrics. Beck's "Loser" comes to mind. As does like 90% of Nirvana's songs.

Wait a second here, Mex. Are you actually defending this d-bag's actions, him saying that one of MP's most heartfelt-written songs needs "more thought"?? Or are you just playing devil's advocate for the fun of it?

I'm not defending anything. I'm saying there is nothing wrong with finding those lyrics cheesy. He didn't say the subject matter was cheesy, he's talking about the way he expressed it.

Listen, please point me towards the guidelines for properly critiquing lyrics to a song. I'd like to see it because as far as I know there aren't any rules. Especially considering this is just a fan talking and not a "critic" who get's paid to do that.

I also stated that I have not problem with Portnoy telling the guy off and basically saying GTFO and die for all I care. I don't blame him for saying that at all. He wrote that post with his heart, not his head and under the circumstance I can totally understand it.

[bmaninc]

Doesn't matter how long you lurk all it takes is one post to change people's opinion about you.

On a Buckethead messageboard I've been around on since 2004 someone made a crack about GH/RB saying that they should go outside, get a life etc. Since he was being immature I said yeah maybe they should go outside and do something... Like your mom.

Later I come back and find out his mom died (I was supposed to know this obviously) and how I'm a terrible person and I should be banned from the forum (I wasn't obviously).

Post count has nothing to do with it.

The poster only criticized the song's lyrics. He even mentioned that the song was meaningful, but he didn't like the freaking lyrics. He takes no personal shots at Dream Theater or Mike Portnoy. His criticism, whether you agree with it or not, is strictly about the product that MP and DT released to the public.

If you're a public figure, everything you do is going to be criticized. If you don't want to take criticism about a song, don't release it. Pretty simple.

If HMXHenry came on here and started cussing someone out for whatever reason, wouldn't there be backlash?

[davidshek]

I'm not defending anything. I'm saying there is nothing wrong with finding those lyrics cheesy. He didn't say the subject matter was cheesy, he's talking about the way he expressed it.

I don't think anybody's arguing that he's not allowed to have his own opinions on a song or its lyrics. It's how he chose to go about expressing that opinion that is the problem.


I also stated that I have not problem with Portnoy telling the guy off and basically saying GTFO and die for all I care. I don't blame him for saying that at all. He wrote that post with his heart, not his head and under the circumstance I can totally understand it.

Ok, so we're agreed then. :)

[Mex]

I don't think anybody's arguing that he's not allowed to have his own opinions on a song or its lyrics. It's how he chose to go about expressing that opinion that is the problem.



Ok, so we're agreed then. :)

Yeah I think we do agree. If it were me, I probably wouldn't have made that post, just because it's a touchy subject. But I don't think there is anything wrong with thinking the lyrics are lacking.

Anyway, Portnoy chewed him out and the dude is basically heartbroken now so I guess justice has been served.

[jonoo24]

Lyrics are poems.

[Der_Lex]

Its true, Lex, people in the public spotlight should and are held to a higher standard than those people that are not.

Sorry, but I completely disagree with this. Fame does not suddenly give you the obligation to be a saint, or to be some kind of paragon of mankind... unless that is what you're famous for, like Gandhi or Mother Theresa. Portnoy is famous for being a good drummer, so basically that's all that people should expect from him.


the difference is that you can put a face to mike portnoy. he's not some random n00b. maybe its my fault for thinking he would be above petty bickering and name calling?

lex, i commend him for defending himself and his work, but the profanity is unnecessary. it's no different than one of the HMX higher ups doing that to a poster in one of the countless "fix this bug" thread.

The guy is human... why would he be above the sort of thing the rest of us aren't? Again, people don't suddenly become perfect just because more people know their name or face.

I agree that the profanity is unnecessary... but as Mex said, the guy posted from the heart, not from the brain. I think we've all chewed out someone who ticked us off at some point in time. I know I have. Personally, I'd offer an apology afterward for the phrasing of my reaction and the inclusion of the swearing, but not for the thought behind it.

I don't think the comparison with HMX is completely apt, though. A forum owned by a company on which fans and customers can discuss their products is not really the same as a forum owned by a private person. That being said, I don't really agree with that kind of double standard on any kind of forum, and in fact it's something that downright annoys me. I've seen posters on here say the most horrible things about Harmonix employees, and then crying foul and whining to all heaven if Henry, Sean or Veng posts a reply that might contain even the slightest hints of criticism or sarcasm. People too often forget that before they complain about the host, they should remember to be courteous guests themselves first.

[kiggidykev]

This is an awful lot of discussion about the actions of two people that we don't even know :p

[toymachineSH]

great contribution bro

[kiggidykev]

Back at you, starshine

[ThunderCurls]

fight fight fight fight

[instantdeath999]

Lyrics are poems.

Depends on the writer. Bob Dylan puts it like this: "Anything I can sing, I call a song. Anything I can't sing, I call a poem. Anything I can't sing but is too long to be a poem, I call a novel".

Nonsense works in literature and poetry, though, so of course it will work sin songwriting. Some of my favorite lyrics ever written don't make a bit of sense.

[Mystlyfe77]

Portnoy is an overrated jerk anyway. Glad someone called him out on his terrible lyrics.

[toymachineSH]

Portnoy is an overrated jerk anyway. Glad someone called him out on his terrible lyrics.

If only he stuck to what he said.

[Mega-Tallica]

Portnoy is an overrated jerk anyway. Glad someone called him out on his terrible lyrics.

I see absolutely no evidence how someone can call Mike Portnoy a jerk. He may be overrated, but the person that Portnoy is, he is very kind, intelligent, and somewhat humerous as a person. How is he a jerk?

[Mystlyfe77]

I see absolutely no evidence how someone can call Mike Portnoy a jerk. He may be overrated, but the person that Portnoy is, he is very kind, intelligent, and somewhat humerous as a person. How is he a jerk?

http://www.sputnikmusic.com/news.php?newsid=342

[MrFruitLord]

On one hand those lyrics are personal... on the other hand... they're awful lyrics... Not sure what to make of this.

[davidshek]

http://www.sputnikmusic.com/news.php?newsid=342

So because he calls out somebody that has been continually insulting him, that makes him a jerk? I don't think so.

[Ultimatum]

I see absolutely no evidence how someone can call Mike Portnoy a jerk. He may be overrated, but the person that Portnoy is, he is very kind, intelligent, and somewhat humerous as a person. How is he a jerk?

In the interviews I've read, he comes off as VERY pretentious. I found him to be kinda douchey when he was on That Metal Show at Download.

[Ultimatum]

So because he calls out somebody that has been continually insulting him, that makes him a jerk? I don't think so.

Except Portnoy started it all when Queensryche decided to pick up the middle spot on Maiden's 2003 tour instead of going on tour DT was on. Portnoy slugged them first, and Portnoy also fails to mention Tate's "personal insults".

Portnoy, however, had this to say in 03: "I have a bone to pick with [Queensryche]... We had a summer tour in the works being booked with them which I think would have been cool for the fans and they backed out in the 11th hour which ****ed us over....I think maybe they realized that having to play after us would make their fans realize how much they suck now!"

[Mystlyfe77]

So because he calls out somebody that has been continually insulting him, that makes him a jerk? I don't think so.

I was hoping people already knew about the controversy, but that's just a fraction of it from only Portnoy's perspective. It's really a lot uglier and a lot more mudslinging from Portnoy's camp than anything else.

That and his general attitude is pretentious and douchey. He called out a fan on his own forums. I don't care if it's personal or not, you don't do that. It just makes you look like a thin-skinned, bitter, whiney, douche.

[Alright_Computer]

Read the lyrics to "Smells Like Teen Spirit" sometime and tell me if they make any damn sense. How about In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida? Or pretty much any Beck song? Do you think anybody has ever listened to those songs and cried because of how deeply it touched them?

I know Beck's lyrics are pretty nonsensical 95% of the time, but I will point out that, yes, I've cried because of a Beck song. Namely these (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VoJMUpzAyI) ones (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBFBLZodiYI), and (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6CLlmUggWQ) this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qe9Wdn7VqA). Yeah, I realize you said "pretty much any", not "every", and I doubt anyone will cry listening to "Where It's At" or "Hollywood Freaks", but I'm just throwing this out there. It gives me another opportunity to be a butt neck, and I never pass up those opportunities... :p

[Joey-Z]

http://bit.ly/81bWsK this guy almost had a huge unintentional troll of Mike Portnoy but instead he went back on his own words.

Most songs about loved ones dying are cheesy.

Unless your song is called Wings for Marie/10,000 Days >_>

Seeing Mike's post though it kind of reminds me of that South Park episode when Radiohead showed up... Yeah you get the picture


Ten words of pure truth... :)

[davidshek]

That and his general attitude is pretentious and douchey. He called out a fan on his own forums. I don't care if it's personal or not, you don't do that. It just makes you look like a thin-skinned, bitter, whiney, douche.

His general attitude? How can you possibly judge that from a few comments in an interview or a random quote in some article somewhere? Have you met the guy? Hung out with him for a few hours? I have. And he wasn't the least bit pretentious or douchey.

[Meatwad555]

Is it just me or does the part of The Best of Times about 1:45 in sound somewhat similar to Funeral For a Friend by Elton John?

[Ultimatum]

His general attitude? How can you possibly judge that from a few comments in an interview or a random quote in some article somewhere? Have you met the guy? Hung out with him for a few hours? I have. And he wasn't the least bit pretentious or douchey.

And people don't change when they're around fans?

[svartikins]

On one hand those lyrics are personal... on the other hand... they're awful lyrics... Not sure what to make of this.

This is pretty much what the whole problem is. Neither side is really to blame, and neither side is at fault.

Although, to be fair, they're NOT as bad as...

"All the finest wines... IMPROVE WITH AAAAGE!"

[Mega-Tallica]

His general attitude? How can you possibly judge that from a few comments in an interview or a random quote in some article somewhere? Have you met the guy? Hung out with him for a few hours? I have. And he wasn't the least bit pretentious or douchey.

I agree here, people are jumping too quick to conclusions based off one interview or a couple of quotes.

[Starfleet_Rambo]

And people don't change when they're around fans?

Nope.

At least from what I've read about Maynard James Keenan. ;)

Justin and Adam from Tool will talk with you if you catch them out in public (read and seen photos of such), but read Maynard ain't so interested in meeting strangers.

[Starfleet_Rambo]

I equate what this "fan" did on Portnoy's own personal forum to a real life friend talking to his friend after he gave the eulogy at his father's funeral:

Douche: Hey man, I know you loved your father and were emotional up there, but...

Grieving Friend: Yeah?

Douche: You should have hired a writer to do that eulogy, because it didn't work for me at all. I didn't like it.

Grieving Friend: WHAT THE HELL MAN??!!

Douche: It wasn't all bad, but could have been done better, is all.

Grieving Friend: F**K YOU!! WHAT THE HELL MADE YOU THINK IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO SAY THAT S**T TO ME?!?!! WHAT KIND OF DIPS**T ARE YOU?!!

*Grieving friend punches out the douche bag*

Douche: (moaning) but...but i still love ya man!! :(

So, the point is, that fan should have known better to post an insult to Portnoy's song for his deceased father on his own damn forum and not expect to catch heat.

Stay classy.

[HeavyMetalKing]

I equate what this "fan" did on Portnoy's own personal forum to a real life friend talking to his friend after he gave the eulogy at his father's funeral:

Douche: Hey man, I know you loved your father and were emotional up there, but...

Grieving Friend: Yeah?

Douche: You should have hired a writer to do that eulogy, because it didn't work for me at all. I didn't like it.

Grieving Friend: WHAT THE HELL MAN??!!

Douche: It wasn't all bad, but could have been done better, is all.

Grieving Friend: F**K YOU!! WHAT THE HELL MADE YOU THINK IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO SAY THAT S**T TO ME?!?!! WHAT KIND OF DIPS**T ARE YOU?!!

*Grieving friend punches out the douche bag*

Douche: (moaning) but...but i still love ya man!! :(

So, the point is, that fan should have known better to post an insult to Portnoy's song for his deceased father on his own damn forum and not expect to catch heat.

Stay classy.

I agree with everything here. Quite frankly, I think I would have reacted the same way if someone went out of their way to criticize something I wrote in memory of a loved one so heavily. It would have been one thing if the guy just said "Eh, I get that it's emotional, but I didn't like the lyrics all that much." Okay, still a big frustrating, but at that point it's opinion. However, the guy had to take it further and more or less break the song apart so he could complain about how many times the word "day" was used. There's a point where criticism goes to far. This was it.

$.02

[davidshek]

And people don't change when they're around fans?

Perhaps, but not usually when they're around other musicians. This wasn't some adoring fan thing backstage somewhere.

Do you really think somebody can better judge his "general attitude" from reading a few quotes and interviews, or from meeting him and talking with him for a while? You decide.

[Mex]

The title of this thread should now be changed to "Is Portnoy a douche?"... :p

[CloudWolf]

Well, if I wrote a passionate song about a loved one that died I would be pretty pissed too if someone tells me he can't listen to the song because he thinks the lyrics are terrible.

[bmaninc]

Its not like the guy said "I don't care that your dad died". It seems he knows the meaning of the song, since he said it was meaningful. However, it possible that you don't like the lyrics to an emotional song. Big deal.

[bermuddy]

dont forget the "omg mike portnoy is god" factor. i dont like DT so i dont care one way or the other.

take this example. the song is "sonny" by new found glory and deals with similar subject matter.

I'm sorry
I heard about the bad news today
a crowd of people around you
telling you it's ok
and everything happens for a reason

when you lose a part of yourself to somebody you know
it takes a lot to let go
every breath that you remember
pictures fade away, but memory's forever

an empty chair at all the tables
and I'll be seeing you when all my days boil down
but its better where you're going anyway

I'm sorry
I heard about the bad news today
it's really hard to get through
tough times and long days
but it really just depends on the season

when you lose a part of yourself to somebody you know
it takes a lot to let go
every breath that you remember
pictures fade away, but memory's forever

an empty chair at all the tables
and I'll be seeing you when all my days boil down
for now we'll say good bye
we know it's not the last time
I've lost the best part of my day
but its better where you're going anyway

an empty chair at all the tables
and I'll be seeing you when all my days boil down
for now we'll say good bye
we know it's not the last time
I've lost the best part of my day
this is the last thing
i will remember
its better where you're going anyway

i like the lyrics. could somebody find them cheesy? sure. if the poster said what he said to the writer of this song and the writer reacted the same way, i'm positive you that you guys would be ripping NFG a new one.

[bmaninc]

That's a valid point mudman. There are a lot of MP fans here.

[Starfleet_Rambo]

That's a valid point mudman. There are a lot of MP fans here.

I dislike a lot of bands, but I sure wouldn't post on their forum, myspace, twitter, facebook, magazine letter, or in person if I somehow managed to be around them that a song they wrote about a deceased loved one bothered me.

Ain't necessary.

Also, congratulations on your Patriots getting back on track next Sunday against my Panthers. :mad:

*spits*

This is another NFL discussion thread now.

[bmaninc]

Yep, my prediction is 43-10.

[Banky71]

I like Eric Clapton but I don't fault anyone for disliking "Tears in Heaven" He made the song public and some critcism is part of what you deal with when making a personal song public.

[Ultimatum]

Perhaps, but not usually when they're around other musicians. This wasn't some adoring fan thing backstage somewhere.

Do you really think somebody can better judge his "general attitude" from reading a few quotes and interviews, or from meeting him and talking with him for a while? You decide.

Both aren't the best way, but from what I've seen from his attitude in interviews, he's quite the manipulative person.

[davidshek]

Both aren't the best way, but from what I've seen from his attitude in interviews, he's quite the manipulative person.

See, now if you wanted to say that he manipulates interviews (or interviewers), I might agree with that. But what celebrity doesn't do that? There's always "the list of questions or topics the interviewer is not allowed to ask" for every celebrity interview.

But you cannot possibly judge his entire personality based on a few very brief glimpses.

[Ultimatum]

Yeah, but people tend to act differently when in direct contact with other people that they might care about. I doubt Portnoy cares about interviews and really exposes his true self on that.

You can't judge solely off of one thing, but he shouldn't be consistently coming off like a douche whenever he's interviewed. His outburst over the whole Queensryche thing and his baseless claims do nothing to help him and make him look like he handles things like a small child. The worst I believe Geoff Tate said was "Queensryche plays music while Dream Theater plays notes" and declined to comment further.