Car Advice

[Daesania]

I'm thinking about getting rid of the Eclipse and getting something more family friendly since we may have a little one soon.

I've found two cars I like.
1) Subaru Outback
2) VW Sportswagon

Both would come to about the same price (like literally, 200 dollar difference). I believe the MPG is only one or two difference between the two.

I know jack squat about cars, does either car brand have an advantage over the other?

[Mex]

I have a 2008 VW Rabbit and I love the bejesus out of it. I vote for the VW.

[Daesania]

We might get a VW discount, but not certain. My husband has a VW Passat but he bought it used, but gets it serviced at the VW lot, so its possible we might get a continuing customer discount. *shrug*

[Banky71]

I have driven both of these car and dig them both.

[bmaninc]

I have driven both of these car and dig them both.


Get off the fence! Make a decision!

[ffwarrior47]

VeeDub

[sphere]

VW.

[topperharley]

Buy American, dammit! :p

[bmaninc]

You know the Germans always make good stuff.

[topperharley]

Well played, bman.

[Daesania]

If the americans made a car I'd like, then I'd buy it :p

Only PITA about driving a VW is oil changes cost more since they're a PITA to get to, or atleast that's the case with my husband's Passat. My oil changes are 17 dollars. His are 35 at the same place.

[daftuprising]

VWs are very very expensive to repair in general, not just oil changes.

[plague]

Keep the eclipse. Or buy a sporty sedan, not a wagon.

[ThrobingCane]

Subaru's are nice, I own a legacy GT and its a tank nothing has ever gone wrong with it (knock on wood) it has 125000 miles too.

[Perfxion]

Subi's are nice. I am about to buy a WRX a little after the new year(tax refund as down payment). Outback is a sturdy wagon that will last. Two safe options on the sedan front are two of the most popular cars in America, Honda Accord and the Toyota Camry. safe, simple to work on, and plenty of room for a family of 4.

All German cars, at least in the US, have a BMW price tag on repairs.

[RidethePiggy]

Subi's AWD > all.

[bermuddy]

from those 2 id go with the VW, but if youre looking for economic and reliable, you really cant beat the accord or the camry.

[Mex]

If the americans made a car I'd like, then I'd buy it :p

Only PITA about driving a VW is oil changes cost more since they're a PITA to get to, or atleast that's the case with my husband's Passat. My oil changes are 17 dollars. His are 35 at the same place.

35 bucks? Ha ha I wish. 100 bucks for my VW. Mind you, that's at the dealership. I know they do other things too when I bring it in but it's mostly just an oil change.

The reason oil changes on VW's is so expensive is they use fully synthetic oil.

[bermuddy]

dude, you could totally do it yourself for a fraction of the cost. 5 quarts of synthetic oil at walmart is like 25 bucks.

[RidethePiggy]

If you haven't paid for a "service warranty" through the dealer then change your oil yourself as bermuddy said.

And rotate your tires, change your brakes, change your fluids and change tires when you need yourself. Regular car maintenence needs to be learned by everyone! All this can save you hundreds of dollars a year.

[Mex]

dude, you could totally do it yourself for a fraction of the cost. 5 quarts of synthetic oil at walmart is like 25 bucks.


If you haven't paid for a "service warranty" through the dealer then change your oil yourself as bermuddy said.

And rotate your tires, change your brakes, change your fluids and change tires when you need yourself. Regular car maintenence needs to be learned by everyone! All this can save you hundreds of dollars a year.

Yeah my car is still under warranty and I'm not taking any chances with these guys. Last thing I need is them trying to deny repairs because I do my own oil changes.

Once the warranty is done I'll either do it myself or go somewhere cheaper.

[bermuddy]

how the bleep is it under warrenty if youre still paying?

[Mex]

how the bleep is it under warrenty if youre still paying?

Warranty doesn't cover regular service...like Oil. Come to think of it my Honda warranty was the same, I had to pay for regular service.

Isnt' that how all warranties are? They're there in case some thing malfunctions with the car?

[bermuddy]

in that case i dont think oil changes void your warranty, dude. you may want to ask them. 100 bucks is VERY steep.

[bood-boy]

my truck is awesome
if i didnt value my life id keep driving it.

[Mex]

in that case i dont think oil changes void your warranty, dude. you may want to ask them. 100 bucks is VERY steep.

They'll find any excuse to get out of covering repairs man. It's just not a hassle I want to deal with. Plus if I sell my car I'd like to have all the records of regular service.

[bood-boy]

i change my oil myself
i have a white optimus prime tshirt that proves it too.

[Daesania]

Keep the eclipse. Or buy a sporty sedan, not a wagon.

I do not want the eclipse as a car seat is not going to work in the back. I happen to like wagons thank you very much.


Subi's are nice. I am about to buy a WRX a little after the new year(tax refund as down payment). Outback is a sturdy wagon that will last. Two safe options on the sedan front are two of the most popular cars in America, Honda Accord and the Toyota Camry. safe, simple to work on, and plenty of room for a family of 4.

All German cars, at least in the US, have a BMW price tag on repairs.
The VW sportswagon was only 25k, so I didnt think it was that expensive? :confused: Like I said, 200 dollar difference.


Warranty doesn't cover regular service...like Oil. Come to think of it my Honda warranty was the same, I had to pay for regular service.

Isnt' that how all warranties are? They're there in case some thing malfunctions with the car?
My eclipse came with a full warranty for 2 or 3 years, i forget which, and it included oil changes and tire rotations. Maybe mine was different because I was friends with the owner? I have no clue. I assumed that was standard.



As for the other car suggestions, thanks but no thanks :) I like the 2 cars that I picked out. I dont want a car, but i dont want an SUV either, these seem like they're fairly in the middle, and a nice price range. I was looking for input of the pro's/con's of either make/models if anyone had any advice on them.

So far we have the pro being everyone likes VW apparently, with a con of: holy****itcostsalottorepair

5 for VW to 3 for Subaru eh? Seems actually kinda close.

I did look at the WRX as well but i like the outback a little more :)

[Wolfbeckett]

I don't have an opinion on those models specifically, but in general I find both VW's and Subaru's to be very good cars. Either way you are buying foreign which is the way to go ;).

[Mex]

Daes in regards to what the warranty covers I'm guessing it varies from car to car. I'm not aware of a warranty that covers regular service unless it's specifically stated as a selling point. Or maybe it's different in Canada? I have no idea.

I still vote VW.

[daftuprising]

It's not expensive to repair/change oil of VW because of the type of oil, parts, etc. It's just harder to do. The Germans like to make their cars hard to fix for some reason. their engine arrangements, etc. are really weird.

[Mex]

It's not expensive to repair/change oil of VW because of the type of oil, parts, etc. It's just harder to do. The Germans like to make their cars hard to fix for some reason. their engine arrangements, etc. are really weird.

That really doesn't make sense if it's VW doing the oil change though. But either way, it's more expensive regardless of why.

[daftuprising]

Anytime you take it to the company's shop, it's gonna cost more. You're paying more for better service (in most cases). Plus they know how to repair whatever it is on the car, since they make it.

Oh, and it may cost $100.00 at the VW place because it's very time consuming for them to do it (engine arrangement)

[Daesania]

Looking at the specs, they both have awesome things that I like. Both versions include hands free bluetooth phone steering wheel answering, which is awesome since my phone does use bluetooth. Both come with nifty stereo displays and sirius radio I think, sunroof, stuff like that.

The Outback has around 10 more cubic feet than the VW, iirc.

Its like they are identical cars :( I think it will come down me going to see them in person and test driving them.

[Wolfbeckett]

Ah well if you haven't test driven them yet then yeah that should be your next move. You will never know whether you enjoy driving a car until you get behind the wheel and do it, no amount of advice from others or reading the specs online can replace a good test drive :).

[Mex]

Anytime you take it to the company's shop, it's gonna cost more. You're paying more for better service (in most cases). Plus they know how to repair whatever it is on the car, since they make it.

Oh, and it may cost $100.00 at the VW place because it's very time consuming for them to do it (engine arrangement)

Yeah I know the dealership will always charge more. It doesn't seem to take them much more time then when I got my Honda serviced.

[Daesania]

Hmm i have a meeting with my car insurance agent next week, maybe I'll get a quote on both while i"m there anyway to see if there's a difference in insurance prices. That could also affect my decision.

[Apples]

I suggest something by Toyota. Made in America, well-engineered, and highly durable. I treat my car like absolute crap and it has not once failed me in over 10 years.

[bood-boy]

i love what you do for me, toyota.

im looking at a toyota as well. probbly a tacoma cause a tundra would be a lil big to squeeze into my garage,

[RidethePiggy]

I have a 100% Japanese built Nissan and I'd say it's the best purchase I've made in years.

[plague]

Subaru's are nice, I own a legacy GT and its a tank nothing has ever gone wrong with it (knock on wood) it has 125000 miles too.

I have a legacy gt also, and it's fun to drive, but it's a gas hog. Yours might be older, since you have way more miles, but the 2005 and newer 2.5l turbo ones have horrible gas mileage.

I don't see the point in having a hatch back unless you're going to have a dog. A trunk and a back seat that folds down is just as good for moving things.

For those two cars, I'd pick the one that gets better gas mileage, unless you need AWD where you live, then get the Subaru.

[ThrobingCane]

I have a legacy gt also, and it's fun to drive, but it's a gas hog. Yours might be older, since you have way more miles, but the 2005 and newer 2.5l turbo ones have horrible gas mileage.


Its an 03, I get like 250-300 miles a tank depending on where im driving.

[hawkofva]

Chalk up another "Toyotas are awesome" from me.

[benson111]

Ford. American.

They beat out Toyota this year in quality and sales.


nuff said.

[bood-boy]

did they go bankrupt too?

[bermuddy]

ford did not go bankrupt and i'm pretty sure they didnt ask for money either.

[bood-boy]

okay i dont pay attention, who did tho?

[bermuddy]

GM

[benson111]

did they go bankrupt too?

No sir, they had a restructuring plane already in place that is working out quite well.


ford did not go bankrupt and i'm pretty sure they didnt ask for money either.

The reason that the didnt ask for any money is that if they did they wouldnt be allowed to pay dividends off there stocks, and that is how the Ford family makes there money....( that and the over 3000 patents that they currently hold.)

[benson111]

GM

As well as Dodge/Chrysler

[hawkofva]

We used to be an all-Ford family (and I love my '87 F-250), but we switched to Toyota after Ford gave us a hard time with a Lemon. :(

[Mex]

Ford...jesus.

I was waiting for someone to post a "buy American" type comment :p

[benson111]

We used to be an all-Ford family (and I love my '87 F-250), but we switched to Toyota after Ford gave us a hard time with a Lemon. :(

I completely undersand that. Times have changed though. I have owened a car from all the american brands ( Aside from Jeep) and a Honda CRX Si

The only one I had any problems with was an 88 pontiac sunbird. It had two electrical shorts within a year of purchase, and it caught fire in 89. I had to change the ignition control module 5 times because it wasnt coverd under the warranty.

I'm driving an F-150 now. Awesome truck, and I get 25 miles to the gallon. For a truck that is awesome.

[benson111]

Ford...jesus.

I was waiting for someone to post a "buy American" type comment :p

LOL.....Uh can you recommend a "Canadian" car......:p

[Mex]

LOL.....Uh can you recommend a "Canadian" car......:p

Sure!! There's actually plenty of cars that yallz buy down there that were built in Canada :)

But on a serious note, the idea of buying something based on the origin of the company has always amused me. I'm not saying don't do it, I just find it odd.

[bermuddy]

benson, what year is your truck?

[benson111]

Sure!! There's actually plenty of cars that yallz buy down there that were built in Canada :)

But on a serious note, the idea of buying something based on the origin of the company has always amused me. I'm not saying don't do it, I just find it odd.

I'm not loyal to ford because its "American", but because I have had overall good experiences with them.

Honestly it comes down to one word. "Maintenance" If you maintain your car according to the manufacturer then you car will last, If you half ass it then you ride will leave you stranded.

[benson111]

benson, what year is your truck?

1998 ExCab 3 door.

[bermuddy]

how in blazes do you get 25 mpg? my 95 ranger gives me 12!

[benson111]

how in blazes do you get 25 mpg? my 95 ranger gives me 12!

Rebuilt motor from Jasper bored .30 over, and I keep my foot out of it..;)

[bermuddy]

but mostly, you dont jave a ford engine :p

[benson111]

but mostly, you dont jave a ford engine :p

No sir it is a ford 4.2 liter. The block is seasoned, but the heads are from the orig motor, just bored over. The only reason I had to replace the block was because of the prev owner decided to "Not" change the oil in time, and the water jacket leaked into the crank.

[Mex]

I'm not loyal to ford because its "American", but because I have had overall good experiences with them.

Honestly it comes down to one word. "Maintenance" If you maintain your car according to the manufacturer then you car will last, If you half ass it then you ride will leave you stranded.

I'm glad you've had good experiences with them :)

Most people I've known with Fords have not, and some of these guys were mechanics that were meticulous with taking care of them. Ah well, as long as it's working for you :)

[benson111]

I'm glad you've had good experiences with them :)

Most people I've known with Fords have not, and some of these guys were mechanics that were meticulous with taking care of them. Ah well, as long as it's working for you :)

I meant no disrespect, sorry if i came off a little douc-ie there.

Everyone will have differing views. But that is a good thing. :)

[Mex]

I meant no disrespect, sorry if i came off a little douc-ie there.

Everyone will have differing views. But that is a good thing. :)

Oh no no, you didn't at all. I was just saying it seems to be different for everyone. It's coo Benson :cool:

[daftuprising]

Buy Jeep

[ArchangelZero]

Buy a European car, really good on the gas.

[benson111]

Kinda off topic, but did you hear that next year in Bush that there going to use Mustangs, and Camaro's? I don't know if the Challenger is going to be raced as well. Sounds cool to me.

[Mystlyfe77]

Another vote to buy Ford.

Also, look to buy used. Judging from the prices you mentioned earlier, it seems you're looking at new cars. You can save tons of money, both on the cost of the car and on insurance, by buying a used car. If you shop smart, you can get a car that's practically like new for a fraction of the cost.

[Wolfbeckett]

Personally I have had nothing but trouble from Fords. I have always liked Ford trucks and course some of their high end cars (like Mustangs) are awesome but for low end cars, SUV's, that kind of thing I would stay away. Right now I am driving an 08 Toyota Matrix which I quite like, it's not the most powerful car on the block (only a V6) but the gas mileage is good and it has plenty of cargo room for the rare occasion that I need to schlep my drum kit around.

[Daesania]

I'm not buying ford, I will be choosing from THOSE TWO CARS that I listed in my OP. Thank you for the suggestions, but I'm happy with those two choices.

[Daesania]

Since my post was chopped...I dont want to keep my eclipse because it cannot handle the 1 foot of snow i'm going to have to drive in tomorrow.

[bood-boy]

bood does not approve of post chopping.

as that oen guy the the bible once said... LET MY PEOPLE GO!

[Der_Lex]

Post was chopped because wildly inappropriate comment quoted in the post was also chopped.

I'd love to post some advice, but since I don't drive and my wife drives a tiny Volkswagen Polo, I have zero knowledge on this subject.

[Daesania]

True, but part of that post was relevant. I dont want to keep my eclipse just because my "friends" drive them (which, they dont by the way, all my friends have family friendly cars or SUVs).

I saw a subaru outback today and wanted to drool over it.

[plague]

If someone thought my post was wildly inappropriate I think they misunderstood, and I would have happily clarified. I definitely didn't post anything that was rude or age inappropriate unless it was misinterpreted. If it offended someone because it wasn't clear, I definitely apologize. It was opinion based on my own experiences.

[Der_Lex]

If someone thought my post was wildly inappropriate I think they misunderstood, and I would have happily clarified. I definitely didn't post anything that was rude or age inappropriate unless it was misinterpreted. If it offended someone because it wasn't clear, I definitely apologize. It was opinion based on my own experiences.

As a neutral observer, I have to admit that your post seemed to call the OP's fertility into question, which is pretty much one of the worst things you can say to someone trying to have a baby. And I have to admit that using the term 'breeder' is always rather iffy as well. But if you intended no offense, I think we can just dismiss this as a poor choice of words and leave it at that.

[Daesania]

If someone thought my post was wildly inappropriate I think they misunderstood, and I would have happily clarified. I definitely didn't post anything that was rude or age inappropriate unless it was misinterpreted. If it offended someone because it wasn't clear, I definitely apologize. It was opinion based on my own experiences.

At the risk of going off topic here, both you and I know that is bogus. You basically implied that I was infertile and as lex pointed out, to someone trying to have a baby, that is not only hurtful, but very inappropriate. There is nothing else you could have "meant" to say.

[bermuddy]

you can only imply that daes hates fords.

[sillystou]

Both of those cars are awesome. I luv Subaru for its *offroad* abilities. But I luv VW for its beauty... Hell, go with VW. That's what I would do. IF I had the dough... :(

[Daesania]

you can only imply that daes hates fords.

I hate most american "brand" cars ;) Nothing that ford puts out looks good, in my opinion.

Wait.. I owned a dodge once, but it was a neon, and i was 16, and it was the "in" car at the time.

[bermuddy]

and dodge isnt a ford. it's a dodge/chrysler :p

fordhater!

[Daesania]

That is true, I was using the neon in regards to american car statement in general though :)

[bermuddy]

my saturn vue will crush you!

[Daesania]

I wish there was a puke smiley on the forums, this would be a perfect time for it. I hate Saturn too.

[bermuddy]

so do i, but it's gets good mileage and its roomy. it's the car ill be purchasing soon :p

[Apples]

But on a serious note, the idea of buying something based on the origin of the company has always amused me. I'm not saying don't do it, I just find it odd.

Of course quality and performance will always be the top considerations.

But when you're putting out $20,000 for an automobile, you're also putting that $20,000 to work in the form of salaries, tax revenues, profits, and so on for the beneficiary company and in turn the beneficiary nation. And that's no small thing.

[elfreako]

If you have a lot of snow and are planning to tow and/or go offroad, the Outback is your best bet. It's pretty expensive to maintain though, but so is the Volks.

I love that car, it was just too expensive for us.

I know you don't care, but the new Escape makes a really nice familly car if you have the occasional rough conditions to face. Not as spacious as the Outback, but putting the little ones in a car seat without bending over makes a world of difference. Might not seem like much now, but you'll see... Ford really did get better, and that's from a Canadian who doesn't give a crap about "american made".

[Daesania]

Dont most of the cars get built in the US anyway, even if they are foreign cars? My mitsubishi was made in Illinois..

[Daesania]

If you have a lot of snow and are planning to tow and/or go offroad, the Outback is your best bet. It's pretty expensive to maintain though, but so is the Volks.

I love that car, it was just too expensive for us.

I know you don't care, but the new Escape makes a really nice familly car if you have the occasional rough conditions to face. Not as spacious as the Outback, but putting the little ones in a car seat without bending over makes a world of difference. Might not seem like much now, but you'll see... Ford really did get better, and that's from a Canadian who doesn't give a crap about "american made".

Bermuddy would make a joke here about how I"m too short anyway for the Escape ;) Although that is probably close to the truth :) I keep flipflopping between the cars, but I've got a couple months to figure it out, we werent looking to buy until after our tax return and while he is deployed.

We do get a lot of snow in Nebraska (a foot is forecasted for today), so that does factor into my decision a bit. We dont plan to go offroad with it, we arent those kinda people :) I hate getting my cars dirty.




Apples, here is a couple year old link that shows where cars and parts were made.. Mostly in the US :p

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2007-03-21-car-content-chart_N.htm

[sillystou]

Dang it... Now I want a VW... :(

[elfreako]

Of course quality and performance will always be the top considerations.

But when you're putting out $20,000 for an automobile, you're also putting that $20,000 to work in the form of salaries, tax revenues, profits, and so on for the beneficiary company and in turn the beneficiary nation. And that's no small thing.

But you are also encouraging companies that have been ignoring customers for years, putting out one gigantic gaz wasting disposable SUV after another, trying to dictate the market until they finally collapsed. I fully support buying local, trust me, but when buying local becomes the irresponsible choice, you know you've got a huge problem. Hopefully GM and Chysler will get it (really not so sure about the later). Ford almost went bankrupt before they finally woke up.

What really stuns me though is that very often the same people who would be willing to run over anyone stepping out of an import are the ones who shop with pride at Wal-Mart.

[elfreako]

I wish there was a puke smiley on the forums, this would be a perfect time for it. I hate Saturn too.

Haha, I owned two of those, and they were both junk. It's the no commission sales people that got me. I HATE having to negociate with someone who couldn't care less about their product but know exactly how to maximise their profit. I bought my house without any agent, I shop all my electronics online, I just hate salesmen. I have to buy bedroom furniture now, should be fun...

[bermuddy]

for furniture, always go ikea. cant go wrong.

[elfreako]

for furniture, always go ikea. cant go wrong.

I swore I'd never buy Ikea again when we bought the house. EVERYTHING we had then was Ikea.

Guess where the kid's furniture ended up coming from...

[Der_Lex]

I swore I'd never buy Ikea again when we bought the house. EVERYTHING we had then was Ikea.

Guess where the kid's furniture ended up coming from...

We've all been there. Our baby furniture is from Ikea as well.

[bermuddy]

those swedes make cheap, good stuff!

[Der_Lex]

those swedes make cheap, good stuff!

I see you too have experience with Swedish women.

*drum roll*

[bermuddy]

i like them tall, blonde, and not able to understand a thing they say.

[Der_Lex]

i like them tall, blonde, and not able to understand a thing they say.

You should come over to Holland and Belgium, then. Tall blond people all over the place. And a nearly unpronounceable language.

[bermuddy]

my short, brunette GF will tell me i cant.

[Der_Lex]

my short, brunette GF will tell me i cant.

Convince her it's the season to share.

[FloodOne]

But you are also encouraging companies that have been ignoring customers for years, putting out one gigantic gaz wasting disposable SUV after another, trying to dictate the market until they finally collapsed. I fully support buying local, trust me, but when buying local becomes the irresponsible choice, you know you've got a huge problem. Hopefully GM and Chysler will get it (really not so sure about the later). Ford almost went bankrupt before they finally woke up.

What really stuns me though is that very often the same people who would be willing to run over anyone stepping out of an import are the ones who shop with pride at Wal-Mart.

The little man should never suffer because of the corporation, especially when you have a say in whether or not the little man SHOULD suffer.

Up here in Michigan, our only industry is auto manufacturing. Its how I earn my paycheck.

Besides, not buying an American made car doesn't just affect the union workers for the big three, it also hurts the auto suppliers.

The auto industry is much farther reaching than a lot of people seem to think it is.

[Wolfbeckett]

The little man should never suffer because of the corporation, especially when you have a say in whether or not the little man SHOULD suffer.

Up here in Michigan, our only industry is auto manufacturing. Its how I earn my paycheck.

Besides, not buying an American made car doesn't just affect the union workers for the big three, it also hurts the auto suppliers.

The auto industry is much farther reaching than a lot of people seem to think it is.

Arguments like this are so bogus. The basic economic fact is that if a company makes crappy products, they go out of business. It doesn't matter how many employees they have, supporting "the little guy" is never a good enough reason to purchase an inferior product. If American companies started making good cars again, get some people in there who actually know a thing or two about good design, some engineers who can make cars that are reliable and get good gas mileage, then by all means, buy American. Until then, supporting them is sending the message that they can continue making **** and we'll continue eating it with a smile.

[plague]

At the risk of going off topic here, both you and I know that is bogus. You basically implied that I was infertile and as lex pointed out, to someone trying to have a baby, that is not only hurtful, but very inappropriate. There is nothing else you could have "meant" to say.

Communication problems do occur. Everyone isn't out to get everyone when someone's feelings get mistakenly hurt.

You indicated that you might have a little one, which I interpreted as meaning that you might have a kid in the future, as that's what it means. We both could have been more clear.

I sold my Eagle Talon AWD TSi (basically an early eclipse with turbo and AWD), for a Chevy Cavalier sedan because I was dating for awhile and we were talking family. It never happened. Not because of infertility, but because life went a different direction. I lost my favorite car, and for nothing. I would recommend for anyone to wait until the pregnancy now before selling a car that they like.

Normally I would use the word "one" instead of "you" when expressing my opinion on a recommended course of action, but you asked for advice. Even if you don't take it, it's advice based on my experience, which some would call wisdom.

I'll apologize a last time for my part of the miscommunication. I did not mean any offense.

[Mystlyfe77]

The little man should never suffer because of the corporation, especially when you have a say in whether or not the little man SHOULD suffer.

Up here in Michigan, our only industry is auto manufacturing. Its how I earn my paycheck.

Besides, not buying an American made car doesn't just affect the union workers for the big three, it also hurts the auto suppliers.

The auto industry is much farther reaching than a lot of people seem to think it is.

But it's because of these unions that US cars are so much more expensive. That's how many other car companies can produce similar products for lower prices, because they don't have to pay union workers.

I realize why the unions exist, and why they're needed. But I also realize they're why many don't buy American.

[Daesania]

Communication problems do occur. Everyone isn't out to get everyone when someone's feelings get mistakenly hurt.

You indicated that you might have a little one, which I interpreted as meaning that you might have a kid in the future, as that's what it means. We both could have been more clear.

I sold my Eagle Talon AWD TSi (basically an early eclipse with turbo and AWD), for a Chevy Cavalier sedan because I was dating for awhile and we were talking family. It never happened. Not because of infertility, but because life went a different direction. I lost my favorite car, and for nothing. I would recommend for anyone to wait until the pregnancy now before selling a car that they like.

Normally I would use the word "one" instead of "you" when expressing my opinion on a recommended course of action, but you asked for advice. Even if you don't take it, it's advice based on my experience, which some would call wisdom.

I'll apologize a last time for my part of the miscommunication. I did not mean any offense.

Its ok. I said I might have a little one because I wont know for another week or two ;) My husband and I are trying for a baby, its just down to mother nature now. This is only our first month, so I'm really not pinning all hopes on it. We wont be buying the car for another couple months though, once our tax return is back and probably after he ships out for deployment. Those deployment checks are rather hefty :)

I'm sorry, i'm just over sensitive lately about that subject, rightfully so ;)

As for the eclipse, I really dont like it, atleast not here in Nebraska. If I was living some place warm like Florida or Texas, sure it would be a great car... but I am scared to drive my car nearly half the year in nebraska, as it is, i took my husband's VW Passat to work today because we're supposed to get 7-11 inches of snow by the time work is over at midnight. My eclipse doesnt even clear 7 inches I'd imagine. Haha!

I've wanted to get rid of my eclipse for awhile now, but just had no reason to, but now that my husband is on board for a new car, I'm all for it ;)

[Mex]

Of course quality and performance will always be the top considerations.

But when you're putting out $20,000 for an automobile, you're also putting that $20,000 to work in the form of salaries, tax revenues, profits, and so on for the beneficiary company and in turn the beneficiary nation. And that's no small thing.

I like the sentiment, I'm not sure if I agree with it. Basically I will spend my hard earned money on the best product available, regardless of where it was manufactured or what country the company is from. As an example, if Guitar Hero was Canadian, I wouldn't purchase it over American Rock Band because...well because I think it's an inferior product (in my opinion).

I guess I never tied patriotism to my wallet.

Again I don't think it's a bad thing to do so, I just don't think it's necessarily the best thing.

[plague]

My dad just retired from GM. He was a little upset when I bought my Eagle, but he couldn't complain much as his brother worked at Jeep/Eagle, so I still kept in the family. Then I bought a Chevy next, so he was happy and I got his discount. When I bought the Subaru though, he didn't like it. I told him to have GM make an AWD car. He says that their $70K cadillac has AWD. I laughed, of course.

[FloodOne]

Arguments like this are so bogus. The basic economic fact is that if a company makes crappy products, they go out of business. It doesn't matter how many employees they have, supporting "the little guy" is never a good enough reason to purchase an inferior product. If American companies started making good cars again, get some people in there who actually know a thing or two about good design, some engineers who can make cars that are reliable and get good gas mileage, then by all means, buy American. Until then, supporting them is sending the message that they can continue making **** and we'll continue eating it with a smile.

A basic economic fact is that if over 5 million people lose their job in a year, then everyone in the country will suffer.

The American auto industry employs that many people, from Big Three union workers, to salary and management, auto part suppliers, processing, shipping and retail.

I'm not a union worker, but I earn my bread from people buying American cars. ***** all you want about their prices, but the American auto industry makes some of the most reliable vehicles in the world. And there are plenty of fuel efficient American cars on the market. Just because everybody and their mother wants an SUV, doesn't mean that's all they sell.