The poker bad beat thread

[plague]

I don't know how many poker players there are on here, but I just had a bad beat and wanted to rant.

I'm in a 1500 chip tournament, blinds are 15/30, and it's the first hand. I'm UTG with 4h4d and raise it to 75.

I get four callers and the flop comes As4c7c. I raise the pot, and everyone folds except for one caller. I immediately put the caller on an ace or a club draw.

The turn is a blank (no club and didn't pair the board). It's a spade. I bet the (now huge) pot again, and I get called.

The river is another blank, and it's another spade. I only have 45 chips left, so I push the rest in. I can beat a failed club draw, a pair of aces, or even two pair. I'm afraid of only a set of 7s or As.

Enemy had JsQs, and got a spade flush on the river to beat my set of 4s, and had nothing before then. I said, "Nice hand".

Have you had a recent bad beat?

[hawkofva]

I play recreationally (Full Tilt FTW), but I don't really recall any specific great or bad moments. I'm really quite average, but it may just be that I play enough that they all run together. It's just a time-killer, really, not something brag/whine-worthy to me.

*shrug*

Sorry to hear you had a bad hand, but you'll have plenty of good ones if you play regularly enough.

[Chuck_Fiasco]

You've already put so much $ in the pot there really isnt much you could have done except maybe shove the turn. You want the kind of action you got in that hand. Without fish like that calling with just 2 big cards looking to strike lucky you would never make any $. Good luck.

[G_tarRoCK3R]

QJ had no reason to call the flop bet espcially after you raised preflop. He was probably putting you on a bluff, and he just got extremely lucky. If you were playing on Poker Stars I believe it. That site is full of so many idiots. I play there on and off. I've had SO many bad beats its not even funny. Thats why I try to stick to just playing in the casino.

I'll never forget this one bad beat my friend had. BRUTAL!

He had AA, playing in a cash game $1/$2 blinds or something like that. Don't remember the action but the pot got pretty big, two other callers to the flop which was A 10 10, flopped pretty much the nuts. Turn K, river K. The action was nuts and the pot got to I think around $400-$500. The two other caller had 10 10 and KK. Most ridiculous hand I've ever heard of. Happened on Poker Room.

[bmaninc]

My brother got a Royal Flush on Pokerstars once and I have the screen grab for proof.

[BZLuck]

Getting a set of 4's busted is far from a "bad beat" in poker.

Think about it. In hand ranking; 3 of a kind only ranks above having 2 pair.

You must have a hand of at least Aces full of 10's (without 3 Aces on the board) and lose the hand for it to be considered an actual "bad beat."

You just simply lost the hand to a flush draw on the river.

Your opponent was priced into the pot at that point, and isn't going to fold his draw for your last 45 chips.

I've flopped trips with a pocket pair more times than I can count. And I've lost with them enough times I don't even want to count that anymore either.

Play for a few more decades and you will see. ;)

[ELDUDEARINO69]

Also I'd like to add about online play. They are THOUSANDS of hands going on at the same time. And alot of the odds are every so many thousands of hands. So when you're getting like hand 1,000,000 the next hand will be close to 1,001,000. Hence crazy hands are far more likely all the time. As in playing in person its totally different.

[murph]

playing $1/2 NL in Atlantic City. it's like 5am and me and a friend have been playing for a few hours. as the button approaches, we decide this is our last hand.

my hand is J9 off suit. 2nd seat raises to $5 and we end up with 4 people seeing the flop. normally, i wouldn't have called...but last hand...i want a little action.

966

two pair. checks around to me. $15 bet to thin out the crowd. it works, just me and the original raiser left now.

6

hellooooo full boat. original raiser only has about $25 left, so i bet enough to make him all in and he calls. he flips over ace-something (i forgot the other card).

the river is a $^#&@ 6. quad 6's on the board. WTF?! the other guys wins with his A kicker over my J as my boat gets sunk and i go to bed very angry.

[aggiesrul8]

When I was in Vegas last summer, I had something crazy happen to me. I was at a $1/$2 NL table and had played for around an hour and a half and turned my orginal $100 into around $700-$800.

Guy across the table from me looks like Doyle Brunson (maybe just the fact he was old helped in this aspect), sporting a vest, 3 gold chains, silver bracelets, and a wife sitting over his shoulder who looks like she has had around 24 botox injections in her facial region. He had been there since 6 AM he told me, and he had a similar sized stack as myself (it was around 1 PM at this point).

Anywho... On the button, I get pocket rockets (Ace-Ace for the non-poker players). Fold, Fold, Fold, Pimp Doyle raised to $15. Fold, Call, Fold. I bump it to $45. Small blind folds, big-blind folds, Doyle calls, the other caller folds.

Flop: A, 9, 4 (rainbow).
Great flop, not worried about anything at this moment as he called $45. Doyle checks. With the pot currently at around $105, I bet the pot ($105). Doyle insta-calls. I'm now thinking he possibly has a lower set, or A-9, A-K.

Turn: 10
Doyle checks, and I push my remaining chips (around $700, $650). Doyle stands up like this is a huge decision. He finally calls... I flip over the Aces, he flips over 6-8 offsuit.

River: Needless to say, a 7 comes and he hits his straight. I retained about $50 of my chips.

People at the table are dogging the old man like he just kicked someone's dog. How can you call with 6-8 off-suit pre-flop? post-flop? even on the turn?

His response... and I will remember exactly how he said it until the day I die....
"I was feelin' lucka".....

[Apples]

That is the one eternally frustrating thing about poker. Playing it, watching it on TV, etc. You can do everything right and still lose.

[G_tarRoCK3R]

When I was in Vegas last summer, I had something crazy happen to me. I was at a $1/$2 NL table and had played for around an hour and a half and turned my orginal $100 into around $700-$800.

Guy across the table from me looks like Doyle Brunson (maybe just the fact he was old helped in this aspect), sporting a vest, 3 gold chains, silver bracelets, and a wife sitting over his shoulder who looks like she has had around 24 botox injections in her facial region. He had been there since 6 AM he told me, and he had a similar sized stack as myself (it was around 1 PM at this point).

Anywho... On the button, I get pocket rockets (Ace-Ace for the non-poker players). Fold, Fold, Fold, Pimp Doyle raised to $15. Fold, Call, Fold. I bump it to $45. Small blind folds, big-blind folds, Doyle calls, the other caller folds.

Flop: A, 9, 4 (rainbow).
Great flop, not worried about anything at this moment as he called $45. Doyle checks. With the pot currently at around $105, I bet the pot ($105). Doyle insta-calls. I'm now thinking he possibly has a lower set, or A-9, A-K.

Turn: 10
Doyle checks, and I push my remaining chips (around $700, $650). Doyle stands up like this is a huge decision. He finally calls... I flip over the Aces, he flips over 6-8 offsuit.

River: Needless to say, a 7 comes and he hits his straight. I retained about $50 of my chips.

People at the table are dogging the old man like he just kicked someone's dog. How can you call with 6-8 off-suit pre-flop? post-flop? even on the turn?

His response... and I will remember exactly how he said it until the day I die....
"I was feelin' lucka".....

Its people like this that make me hate playing poker, yet I still do. He had NO business RASING, nor calling a reraise. Total bull**** man that sucks 4 outer.

[CJHobbes]

While I enjoy playing poker, I don't ever play with real money. Too many variables (including me having a terrible poker face) which would cause me to donate my hard earned skrilla to a stranger. Not my idea of fun. Especially when it's not 100% that I'm going to win it, and at any point in time I can make a mistake and lose everything in 2 seconds. The only casino game I like playing is Craps. That game is fun, probably because everyone is rooting for each other (unless you bet the no pass, then you just suck).

Side note: Also, what's up with all these poker players wearing sunglasses and such? How is that allowed when part of the game is the ability to read bluffs and keep yourself from giving your tells away? What do professional players really think about this? It just makes absolutely no sense to me, kind of like if baseball players were able to tar/cork their bats. Maybe I'm missing something since I don't play regularly, I don't know. *shrugs*

[plague]

I don't feel so bad about my bad beat after reading the ones that others posted. Thanks y'all. :)

CJHobbes, I agree. Players shouldn't be able to use props to improve their play. There should be a uniform that everyone has to wear, or at least a dress code. :)

[aggiesrul8]

Its people like this that make me hate playing poker, yet I still do. He had NO business RASING, nor calling a reraise. Total bull**** man that sucks 4 outer.

Yeah, I was literally almost kicked out of the MGM Grand Poker room that afternoon for excessive cursing, or something along those lines. I took a break, got the cocktail waitress to bring me a few 'stiff' drinks.... then proceeded to turn the $50 I had left at the table into about $400 by the time my dad was ready to go eat supper.

When I returned later that evening before hitting the craps table up, people playing at the tables were stopping me/calling me over and asking me what had happen to cause me to curse so loudly. I guess I was famous in Vegas for a few short moments... LOL

[tridentgum0]

Poker is fun, even though I've never made or lost a cent off of it.

[pacifistWITHgun]

I remember playing with a few of my friends at their' house over the summer.

I go all in with a full house, three aces, two kings.

Bastard was holding the other two.

[davidshek]

Side note: Also, what's up with all these poker players wearing sunglasses and such? How is that allowed when part of the game is the ability to read bluffs and keep yourself from giving your tells away? What do professional players really think about this?

There's nothing illegal about it, and professional players do it all the time. Just watch any WSOP or WPT tourney on TV and you'll see all of them wearing hats, shades, etc. One pro, nicknamed "The Unabomber" (Phil Laak), even wears a hoodie pulled over his head (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2420/2278220732_da468afc8c.jpg?v=0) along with his shades that pretty much hides his entire face. It's not against the rules to wear clothing. :)

So bad beats, here's my most recent:

Vegas, summer 2009, I'm playing at the Rio in a WSOP $2000 buy-in NL Holdem tournament that I got into by winning a $180 single table Sit-n-Go. At the time, I guessed there were around 40-ish people left in the game, and I'm doing alright, nicely above average in chips, but not anywhere near the big stack.

On the button, I pull QQ. Betting goes around the table, several folds, 2 calls, and then I raise to 4x the big blind. Blinds both fold, the 2 callers call my raise. Flop comes: Q-K-8. Sweet, a set of queens. Table checks around to me, so I make a moderate sized bet, one guy calls, the other folds.

Turn: Q. Quad Queens! Other player checks, I make a big bet, he calls.

River: K. I wasn't even really paying attention to that last card, I figured I had it in the bag with my quads. He checks, I bet, he raises, I re-raise enough to put him all in, he calls.

And he flips over...KK. Quad kings on the river to beat my ladies. :(

I only had enough to cover a few blinds after that, ended up busting out in 32nd place. Made a good chunk of change from that tourney, but it would have been really nice to make it to the final table...

[plague]

And he flips over...KK. Quad kings on the river to beat my ladies. :(

That's harsh. One of my friends plays at a site that has a bad beat jackpot, and that would have qualified. However, some sites don't consider it a bad beat unless you have at least quad aces.

So when he called the flop raise and the turn raise, what did you put him on?

[davidshek]

That's harsh. One of my friends plays at a site that has a bad beat jackpot, and that would have qualified. However, some sites don't consider it a bad beat unless you have at least quad aces.

So when he called the flop raise and the turn raise, what did you put him on?

I had him pegged on big slick. And yeah, the hotel I was staying in (not the Rio) also had a bad beat jackpot in their poker room, but theirs was anytime Aces Full was beaten by anything else.

[DarkEternal37]

Here's a fun idea for anyone who has a solid group of people that they can play with consistently.

Myself and 19 other guys have a poker league going. We run the league for 4 months and then have a final table. Each week is one tournament with a buy in of 20 dollars (there are rebuys and add-ons for the first hour). Even with about 16 people the tournaments only last about 4 hours (sometimes up to 6 or 7 if it's particularly epic.)

Anyway, you get 20 points for first place, 19 for second, etc. 0 of you don't show up. End of the season, the top 8 in points get to the final table. Each tournament is a 20 dollar buy in. If the pot for a certain week exceeds a certain amount we take out 60 dollars and put it into an envelope. If it's under a certain amount we take out 40. At the end of the season, the 8 making the final table play for that money in a free tournament. Winner banks 75 percent, Second gets 15 percent and 3rd gets 10 percent.

The final table chips are determined like this: 50 chips per point. Bonus 1000 per tournament win and a penalty of 500 per re-buy/add-on. I won 5 of the 13 weeks in the first season and ended up winning 400 dollars at the final table after I won. Yes, we also have a trophy. The top of the trophy has the winning hand (Ace 4 suited spades).

It's a fun time and it really gets people to show up consistently. Most of us work together so our schedules match up decently enough.

And to add my bad beat story. 3 handed at the aforementioned final table. I was at about 15% of the remaining chips while the player to my right had about 50%. I had 9/10 suited diamonds. Flop came down with a 10, King and 6 with one diamond. I pushed all in after his check, and he called instantaneously. He had pocket 10's. I had him read for something completely different. My only hope to win was to run two diamonds and hope the board didn't pair OR have the board run two kings to get a chop full house. The board ran two kings. I was beyond shocked.

[Apples]

Side note: Also, what's up with all these poker players wearing sunglasses and such? How is that allowed when part of the game is the ability to read bluffs and keep yourself from giving your tells away? What do professional players really think about this? It just makes absolutely no sense to me, kind of like if baseball players were able to tar/cork their bats. Maybe I'm missing something since I don't play regularly, I don't know. *shrugs*

Contrary to all the good luck trinkets and superstitions, there is sound science behind doing this.

It is a common human reflex for a person's eyes to dialate when their eyes spot something attractive. So if you hit a flop and you react to it this way, your opponent could pick up on it. By wearing shades you are concealing a potential tell to your opponent.

It would be really hard to regulate dress code at a tournament with all the hats, hoods, "costumes" and other nonsense people wear.

[LegendofRock3021]

My brother got a Royal Flush on Pokerstars once and I have the screen grab for proof.

So did I, I might start playing there once again. I've cashed in a couple of Sunday Millions and do pretty well in cash games, so I might put some money to play again. I've also had my share of bad beats, I always hate when I get beat by a flush when I have aces, so sick every time it happens.

[plague]

I just made a horrible play, but based on my instincts it was the obvious one.

We're down to heads up and I have the button. Blinds are only 40/80 as my agressive play pretty much got everyone on tilt and the tournament didn't last long. Enemy has 6,916 chips and I have 6,464. He's pretty much raising 3xbb every time and I'm folding waiting for a playable hand. Six hands later, I get the best cards so far, and I decide to actually play.

I have 3c, 6c and I call the bb. As usual, he raises but only 2xbb and I call.

The flop comes 6s, 5d, Qd. I hit something, but I know that he's going to lead out with a bet whether he hit it or not, and he does. He insta bets the 320 pot, and I call.

Turn is 10d and he insta bets the 960 pot, and I really don't think anything has improved his hand since he's insta betting. I call again.

River is 7d. He insta goes all in. I think for a minute, and put him on a total bluff, and I call.

He had 4s, Ks. I win 13,008 chips, leaving him with 412 chips. Since he's on tilt because of my call, he's easy to pick off after that, and I win the tournament.

[killer_roach]

Had a game where I had pocket aces, and this one guy kept trying to raise the stakes... knowing full well he was bluffing, I kept it going.

On the flop, it's two aces and a 7 of clubs. I figure this is case closed, but just slowly raise the stakes, just to mess with him a bit.

The turn is a 5 of clubs. Keep tightening the screws a bit.

On the river, a 4 of clubs comes up. He suddenly goes all in. I match him; after all, I've got quad aces. What can go wrong?

He had a 6 and an 8 of clubs. I lost to a straight flush.

Ow.

[cherokeesam]

Had a game where I had pocket aces, and this one guy kept trying to raise the stakes... knowing full well he was bluffing, I kept it going.

On the flop, it's two aces and a 7 of clubs. I figure this is case closed, but just slowly raise the stakes, just to mess with him a bit.

The turn is a 5 of clubs. Keep tightening the screws a bit.

On the river, a 4 of clubs comes up. He suddenly goes all in. I match him; after all, I've got quad aces. What can go wrong?

He had a 6 and an 8 of clubs. I lost to a straight flush.

Ow.

You played against a stupid person.
Do not play poker with a stupid person.
Who the hell raises on a 6c8c with two singles on the flop? A sane person would have known full well that you were holding at least one more (if not the pocket rockets, which you were).

*Edit: on the other hand, *you* should have gone all-in on him and called his bluff before he had a chance to make a hand. He would have folded.

[killer_roach]

Yeah, I knew that once it happened, but I don't think much of playing against stupid people (as they tend to be the overwhelming majority), so I was hoping to bleed him out rather than watching him fold as soon as I went all in. Make it too costly for him to just duck out, if you will.

It's hard to avoid stupid people in poker, though... although they tend to just make me go overly cautious and I end up making a lot of money off of their recklessness.

[LegendofRock3021]

It's hard to avoid stupid people in poker, though... although they tend to just make me go overly cautious and I end up making a lot of money off of their recklessness.

Very much so, I've played against a lot of dumb people, so I've always been more conservative with those players and ended up doing pretty well.

[Jdurgit]

Ahhhh.......... Where can I begin? I play cards every week with a group of my friends and on many occassions at the local casinos. (Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun). For the past 6 months or so, I have been on an absolute horrific streak of bad beats and cold decks. (For those not in the "poker know", a cold deck is when you just aren't getting much of anything, and when you finally do get a good hand you wind up with the second best hand. Such as getting KK when someone else gets AA, or you have a K-high flush when someone else has an A-high flush). I can just list a few of my bad-beats/cold decks here:

This one's not really a bad beat as opposed to bad luck, but it cost me a few hundred dollars at the casino. I was in the big-blind with 8-9 of spades. Everybody was limping in and I was just glad to see a flop with those types of cards. I'd have folded to a raise. So the flop comes down with five of us in the pot. The flop is Q-J-10 of spades. I had to look at it a few times to make sure I was actually seeing what I thought I was seeing. I flopped a straight flush! Being the first to act, I checked to try and induce a bet from someone else. Another player bet out half the pot, and everyone after him folded so I just called to try and keep him in. One other person called, so there are now three of us. The turn is a ten of hearts and at this point I decided to bet out. I bet $75 and got one caller right after me, then a re-raise by the person on the other end of the table. The re-raise was a minimum re-raise of $75. At that point, I decided to move in the last of my $150 sitting there. The guy to my direct left folded, and the other guy called. He flipped over AK of spades. The SOB slowplayed the AK of spades from late position pre-flop and when I flopped the straight flush, he flopped the Royal Flush. That hurt bad. Not a bad beat since I was behind from the get-go, but as cold as a cold-deck could be. (Apparently the other guy who folded had J-10 and boated with the ten coming down). Still, that hurt me bad and I couldn't believe there was no pre-flop raise.

This bad beat came down on me about two months ago at my home game with my friends. We play a range limit with minimum bet being $0.50 and maximum being $4.00. Preflop (forget my position) I had QQ. I raised it $3.00 and one person calls. The flop comes down Qd-Ad-7c. I was pretty happy flopping trips and bet out $4.00 to kill off any flush draw or straight draw. The dope quickly calls. The turn comes Qs. I now have quads. I check since now I want the other guy in the pot, and he bets out $4.00 trying to represent a boat. That makes me happy. :p I raise him $4.00, and being the fool he is, he raises me another $4.00. Without hesitation, I raise him $4.00 more and he just calls. The turn is the Jd. I bet out $4.00 and he INSTANTLY raises $4.00 while shaking a bit. Since I've been in a bad rut of losses lately, I just call the $4.00 and he turns over Kd-10d. The sonuva***** stuck around for a friggen ONE-OUTER and caught it. He then started acting like he was the big **** because he was got a Royal Flush. I usually don't let bad beats get to me, but I unleashed a bevy of insults and vulgarities directed towards him. Yeah, it wasn't going to get my money that he stole from me back, it did make me feel better and somewhat humiliated him in front of the rest of our friends.

Tonight, I had A-J from the dealer position. It gets to me and I raise $2.00 into a pot of about $3.00. I get one caller. On the flop, it comes down A-J-5 rainbow. I bet $4.00 and the other guy calls. The turn is a blank; 6c. Again, I bet $4.00 and he calls. The river is the 2s. I bet out $4.00 again, he raises $4.00. Being worried about him sticking around with a gutshot straight draw, I just call. As I put my money in, I ask "Got the straight?" He says "No" and I feel a bit better. He then proceeds to turn over pocket twos for a miracle set on the river. (Miracle because when the turn card was being turned over, the dealer screwed up and a folded 2 was momentarily shown to the table. So he caught the last two in the deck). I couldn't believe he would call a raise pre-flop while in early position, then continue to call all the way through for the maximum bet when he knew that I had a better hand. Then, to CONTINUE to call when one of his two outs was shown to be dead was numbing.

It's been a very rough stretch for me because it seems that whenever my big hands are holding up, the pots are very small so my return on the investment is small. When the pots get bigger, it doesn't matter how I have the opponent dominated, I wind up losing the hand. Whether it's a stretch of cold deck beats where nobody in their right mind would be able to get away from a loss, or bad beats where I have someone dominated, this is just painful.

Yes, poker is a game of skill, but only when skilled people are the only ones involved. When you get a bunch of dumb schmucks who have no idea what they are doing, the element of luck begins to play a huge role in how you do. :(

[plague]

I had so many bad beats this weekend, that I lost all 100,000+ of my play money at Full Tilt and had to reload for 1,000. I lost it all at their new Rush poker. Can play a lot of hands really fast. It's pretty neat. I actually started the weekend at 60K and got it up to over 100K before I lost it all. What a wild swing.

I'm done playing for play money though, since 1K isn't enough to buy into a Rush game, even, so I started playing with my real money and am up. Only been playing micro stakes though. I also started playing freerolls. I'm pretty good at tournaments. In fact, here's a screen shot (http://www.rockband.com/img/4377449/422) of me at the final table in three of the four tables I was playing in. Granted I did bust out of the fourth one and decided not to start another fourth session because I figured I'd likely win one of the three. I did win the lower left one and finished third in the lower right one. These were 180 people tournaments. Turns out though that they were qualifers for another tournament that I'd already qualified for when I won first place in a 360 person tournament yesterday. What a waste of time.

If you play at full tilt, take note that the .com and .net heads up sattelites are for the same tournament, which is ridiculous because the .com one is so much easier. The .com is 180 people and the top two finishers get a ticket. The .net is 360 people and only the winner qualifies. This seems backwards. I did both.

[Young Bloodlust]

I understand ALL the lingo in this topic. No need to question me on it though. I assure you that I am a man and, therefore, should know everything to do with... the card game that you are all currently talking about,

[plague]

This is so sick:

Full Tilt Poker Game #18308533404: .COM National Heads-Up Rd 1 (138589047), Table 10 - 20/40 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:43:33 ET - 2010/02/09
Seat 2: captainmorgan44 (4,275)
Seat 3: Maratey (8,290)
Seat 4: VOC 7 (2,845)
Seat 5: DanVader666 (2,975)
Seat 6: CincinnatiKid82 (10,305)
Seat 7: plagueboy (5,900)
Seat 8: lil miss ivey (3,015)
Seat 9: CCJ 33 (10,685)
Maratey posts the small blind of 20
VOC 7 posts the big blind of 40
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to plagueboy [Ad Ah]
DanVader666 folds
CincinnatiKid82 calls 40
plagueboy raises to 80
lil miss ivey raises to 340
CCJ 33 folds
captainmorgan44 folds
Maratey calls 320
VOC 7 folds
CincinnatiKid82 calls 300
plagueboy raises to 5,900, and is all in
lil miss ivey calls 2,675, and is all in
Maratey calls 5,560
CincinnatiKid82 folds
plagueboy shows [Ad Ah]
lil miss ivey shows [Jh Jd]
Maratey shows [Qd 7c]
*** FLOP *** [3c Tc 5c]
*** TURN *** [3c Tc 5c] [7d]
*** RIVER *** [3c Tc 5c 7d] [Ac]
plagueboy shows three of a kind, Aces
Maratey shows a flush, Ace high
Maratey wins the side pot (5,770) with a flush, Ace high
lil miss ivey shows a pair of Jacks
Maratey wins the main pot (9,425) with a flush, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 15,195 Main pot 9,425. Side pot 5,770. | Rake 0
Board: [3c Tc 5c 7d Ac]
Seat 2: captainmorgan44 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Maratey (small blind) showed [Qd 7c] and won (15,195) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 4: VOC 7 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: DanVader666 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: CincinnatiKid82 folded before the Flop
Seat 7: plagueboy showed [Ad Ah] and lost with three of a kind, Aces
Seat 8: lil miss ivey showed [Jh Jd] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 9: CCJ 33 didn't bet (folded)

[G_tarRoCK3R]

^ ^ ^ ^

wtf was mara thinking? 2nd in chips risking 80% of their stack on Q7? WOW! That sucks bro.

[LegendofRock3021]

It's just pathetic that someone knocks you out with idiotic plays like those, it's happened to me a bunch, so I know exactly how you feel. You can't do anything about it even though you made the correct decision, which is one of the most frustrating things about poker.

[davidshek]

It's just pathetic that someone knocks you out with idiotic plays like those, it's happened to me a bunch, so I know exactly how you feel. You can't do anything about it even though you made the correct decision, which is one of the most frustrating things about poker.

Correction: It's one of the most frustrating things about poker online. All of these online sites use a "fairness" logic that you can read about in their T&C or EULA (can't remember where it's specified). Basically what it says is that if you're doing really well for a while, it'll start giving you really great starting hands (like pocket aces), but those starting hands won't be winning hands if played to a showdown. It's all in the name of "fairness", to try to keep the chips more evenly spread around the players.

It's a bunch of crap, if you ask me. Carbon Poker, Everest Poker, Party Poker, they're some of the worst offenders of using this.

[LegendofRock3021]

Correction: It's one of the most frustrating things about poker online. All of these online sites use a "fairness" logic that you can read about in their T&C or EULA (can't remember where it's specified). Basically what it says is that if you're doing really well for a while, it'll start giving you really great starting hands (like pocket aces), but those starting hands won't be winning hands if played to a showdown. It's all in the name of "fairness", to try to keep the chips more evenly spread around the players.

It's a bunch of crap, if you ask me. Carbon Poker, Everest Poker, Party Poker, they're some of the worst offenders of using this.

True, I've had this happen to me too many times.

[CJHobbes]

There's nothing illegal about it, and professional players do it all the time. Just watch any WSOP or WPT tourney on TV and you'll see all of them wearing hats, shades, etc. One pro, nicknamed "The Unabomber" (Phil Laak), even wears a hoodie pulled over his head (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2420/2278220732_da468afc8c.jpg?v=0) along with his shades that pretty much hides his entire face. It's not against the rules to wear clothing. :)


Contrary to all the good luck trinkets and superstitions, there is sound science behind doing this.

It is a common human reflex for a person's eyes to dialate when their eyes spot something attractive. So if you hit a flop and you react to it this way, your opponent could pick up on it. By wearing shades you are concealing a potential tell to your opponent.

It would be really hard to regulate dress code at a tournament with all the hats, hoods, "costumes" and other nonsense people wear.

I can't believe I forgot about this thread, I just checked it today after posting back in January. Sorry about that!

I should have clarified: I understand you can wear whatever you want and there's no rule against it, and also understand the reason behind it is to more easily hide your natural tells. What I'm wondering is what you guys think about it personally.

See to me, that's part of what Texas Hold'em and other poker games are: it's you versus your opponent more than you versus the cards. It's all about getting cards, betting, and being able to bluff and tell if your opponent is bluffing.

As such, bluffing is more than an integral part of the game. It *is* the game. So as an outsider, it makes absolutely no sense that you can wear sunglasses, hoods, costumes, and whatever else you want to aid in concealing your tells. I imagine part of a skill of playing poker is having the physical capability of hiding your tells; using an object to me seems like a form of cheating.

I suppose I'm saying that while it isn't illegal, it seems like an obvious rule that should be created and enforced; especially on the pro circuit. It's not like you're inviting Jimmy and the boys over for poker night. These guys are pros and play this their entire life, and they should have that skill of controlling their tells without the aid of outside objects.

But maybe I'm missing something because I don't play at all. So I'm just asking for opinions from the guys who do play a lot in real life.

On topic: All those bad beats make me glad I don't play this at all. Haha. I can't imagine losing some of those hands, especially the 4 Qs vs 4 Ks and the 4 As vs straight flush. Completely devastating.

[plague]

I had some more bad beats today, although theoretically they could have been worse:

At a multi-table tournament, there were only two live players. Me and someone else. Everyone else at the table was away. So whoever is left at the table between the live players pretty much has an easy job of increasing their chip stack by 9 times by just continuing to raise and the away players are autofolded. Anyway, I get it all in against the other live player with A,Qs and he called me with K,Jo.

The flop comes A,Q,x, which looks pretty good to me, except now he has a gut shot straight draw, but it's his only out, one of the four tens in the deck. Of course he hits it on the river. Knocks me out of the tournament. He pretty much got 10K chips out of that one hand because he gets everyone's chips at the table, and it should have been me.

Another hand, I was on the bb, and checked with K,Q offsuit. Flop comes 4,Q,9. I have top pair and a pretty good kicker. I raise more than the pot so as not to give someone on a straight draw the odds to call. One guy goes all in, and another guy and I call. The one that went all in had a K with a weak kicker, and the other the J,10 on a straight draw. The K comes on the turn, giving me two pair, and the guy his straight. I'm left with barely any chips, and two people go all in ahead of me, and I have 7,8 suited so I call. The one guy has A,K the other A,3. The guy with A,3 is pretty much dominated. I have a better chance of hitting a pair than either of them because they share a card. Flop comes A,K,K. Crazy.

[plague]

Okay, this is so sick.

Three players at the table. I go all in with A,Ks before the flop and get a caller with 3,4 of the same suit! I have him dominated.

Cards come: 9c Td 5c 7s 6c

[plague]

Check out how I finished this tournament:

Full Tilt Poker Game #18567786560: 250 Play Money Sit & Go (140782772), Table 1 - 60/120 - No Limit Hold'em - 13:07:06 ET - 2010/02/18
Seat 3: plagueboy (1,665)
Seat 4: Don Peperoni (1,415)
Seat 8: duco67 (10,420)
duco67 posts the small blind of 60
plagueboy posts the big blind of 120
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to plagueboy [Kc Ad]
Don Peperoni calls 120
duco67 raises to 240
plagueboy raises to 1,665, and is all in
Don Peperoni calls 1,295, and is all in
duco67 folds
plagueboy shows [Kc Ad]
Don Peperoni shows [4s Ah]
Uncalled bet of 250 returned to plagueboy
*** FLOP *** [4c 4h Kh]
*** TURN *** [4c 4h Kh] [Ks]
plagueboy: lol
*** RIVER *** [4c 4h Kh Ks] [Kd]
plagueboy shows four of a kind, Kings
Don Peperoni shows a full house, Kings full of Fours
plagueboy wins the pot (3,070) with four of a kind, Kings
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3,070 | Rake 0
Board: [4c 4h Kh Ks Kd]
Seat 3: plagueboy (big blind) showed [Kc Ad] and won (3,070) with four of a kind, Kings
Seat 4: Don Peperoni (button) showed [4s Ah] and lost with a full house, Kings full of Fours
Seat 8: duco67 (small blind) folded before the Flop

Full Tilt Poker Game #18567805192: 250 Play Money Sit & Go (140782772), Table 1 - 60/120 - No Limit Hold'em - 13:08:00 ET - 2010/02/18
Seat 3: plagueboy (3,140)
Seat 8: duco67 (10,360)
plagueboy posts the small blind of 60
duco67 posts the big blind of 120
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to plagueboy [Qc Qd]
plagueboy calls 60
duco67 checks
*** FLOP *** [2d 6s 4d]
duco67 bets 780
plagueboy calls 780
*** TURN *** [2d 6s 4d] [Th]
duco67 bets 1,020
plagueboy calls 1,020
*** RIVER *** [2d 6s 4d Th] [Jc]
duco67 bets 1,560
plagueboy calls 1,220, and is all in
Uncalled bet of 340 returned to duco67
*** SHOW DOWN ***
duco67 shows [Ts 6c] two pair, Tens and Sixes
plagueboy mucks
duco67 wins the pot (6,280) with two pair, Tens and Sixes
plagueboy stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6,280 | Rake 0
Board: [2d 6s 4d Th Jc]
Seat 3: plagueboy (small blind) mucked [Qc Qd] - a pair of Queens
Seat 8: duco67 (big blind) showed [Ts 6c] and won (6,280) with two pair, Tens and Sixes

[HMXDungHeaver]

Was playing at Mohegan Sun a couple of weeks ago (cash game). I had As 9d.

The flop was Ad, 9s, 5c. I go all in on the flop, there's roughly $400 total. She shows Ac 5h. Turn, 5s. River, 2c. She wins :(

Her odds to win after the flop: 8.18%, and to split: 2.63%.

[bermuddy]

you should have played poker in niagara.

[plague]

Another sick hand:

Full Tilt Poker Game #18579068517: 250 Play Money Sit & Go (140877099), Table 1 - 80/160 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:03:12 ET - 2010/02/18
Seat 1: tburke31 (7,055)
Seat 2: Rocketcd (2,723)
Seat 5: plagueboy (1,510)
Seat 7: Sea Capt Hooker (1,882)
Seat 9: famas59 (330), is sitting out
famas59 posts the small blind of 80
tburke31 posts the big blind of 160
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to plagueboy [Ac Kc]
Rocketcd calls 160
plagueboy raises to 1,510, and is all in
Sea Capt Hooker folds
famas59 folds
tburke31 folds
Rocketcd calls 1,350
plagueboy shows [Ac Kc]
Rocketcd shows [Qs Qd]
*** FLOP *** [Kd Js Td]
*** TURN *** [Kd Js Td] [As]
*** RIVER *** [Kd Js Td As] [9s]
plagueboy shows two pair, Aces and Kings
Rocketcd shows a straight, Ace high
plagueboy: lol, nice catch
Rocketcd wins the pot (3,260) with a straight, Ace high
plagueboy stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3,260 | Rake 0
Board: [Kd Js Td As 9s]
Seat 1: tburke31 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: Rocketcd showed [Qs Qd] and won (3,260) with a straight, Ace high
Seat 5: plagueboy showed [Ac Kc] and lost with two pair, Aces and Kings
Seat 7: Sea Capt Hooker (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: famas59 (small blind) folded before the Flop

[davidshek]

Another sick hand:

I wouldn't call that a sick hand nor a bad beat. You had less than 10 big blinds left, but being 2 behind the button, you had a strong late position in that hand. Raising all in pre-flop was the wrong move. Your big slick vs. his queens was a coin flip from the very beginning.

You weren't going to force him off pocket queens pre-flop, nor was he going to fold an up-and-down straight draw with middle pair after the flop. No matter which way you played that one, you were going to lose. But you played it badly.

[G_tarRoCK3R]

I wouldn't call that a sick hand nor a bad beat. You had less than 10 big blinds left, but being 2 behind the button, you had a strong late position in that hand. Raising all in pre-flop was the wrong move. Your big slick vs. his queens was a coin flip from the very beginning.

You weren't going to force him off pocket queens pre-flop, nor was he going to fold an up-and-down straight draw with middle pair after the flop. No matter which way you played that one, you were going to lose. But you played it badly.

Agreed. You hit a 6 outer, he hit a 10 outer on the turn (and river) That wasn't a bad beat at all. All in was an iffy play, but 10x BB prob the right move. QQ wasn't going anywhere.

[plague]

I'm saying it was sick because of the huge tease on the flop. I didn't say it was a bad beat, although you probably assumed it because of the bad beat thread. :)

[Droosies]

These all happened on my birthday in the span of 7 minutes. Enjoy.

Full Tilt Poker Game #17149070703: $3 + $0.30 Knockout (128168496), Table 24 - 30/60 - No Limit Hold'em - 11:52:38 ET - 2009/12/28
Seat 1: Pilf (7,815)
Seat 2: IGNITOR4 (2,715)
Seat 3: Arizar (8,670)
Seat 4: LenzJens (8,940)
Seat 5: 36DD1984 (9,085)
Seat 6: GoDallasCowboys (2,570)
Seat 7: annvn (6,360)
Seat 8: tisjke (8,210)
GoDallasCowboys posts the small blind of 30
annvn posts the big blind of 60
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to GoDallasCowboys [Js Ah]
tisjke foldsPilf folds
IGNITOR4 folds
Dorsalis sits down
Dorsalis adds 8,750
Arizar raises to 180
LenzJens folds
36DD1984 folds
GoDallasCowboys raises to 600
annvn calls 540
Arizar has 15 seconds left to act
36DD1984: n
Arizar folds
*** FLOP *** [8s Ac Qd]
GoDallasCowboys bets 420
36DD1984: ba bye
annvn calls 420
*** TURN *** [8s Ac Qd] [Qs]
GoDallasCowboys bets 720
annvn has 15 seconds left to act
annvn raises to 1,440
GoDallasCowboys raises to 1,550, and is all in
annvn calls 110
GoDallasCowboys shows [Js Ah]
annvn shows [Td Ts]
*** RIVER *** [8s Ac Qd Qs] [Th]
GoDallasCowboys shows two pair, Aces and Queens
annvn shows a full house, Tens full of Queens
annvn wins the pot (5,320) with a full house, Tens full of Queens
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5,320 | Rake 0
Board: [8s Ac Qd Qs Th]
Seat 1: Pilf didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: IGNITOR4 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Arizar folded before the Flop
Seat 4: LenzJens didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: 36DD1984 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: GoDallasCowboys (small blind) showed [Js Ah] and lost with two pair, Aces and Queens
Seat 7: annvn (big blind) showed [Td Ts] and won (5,320) with a full house, Tens full of Queens
Seat 8: tisjke didn't bet (folded)


Full Tilt Poker Game #17149017210: $3.50+$0.30 Sit&Go (Sup Turbo) (128392436), Table 1 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 11:49:50 ET - 2009/12/28
Seat 1: GoDallasCowboys (315)
Seat 2: bcrocky (525)
Seat 3: ILOVEMYJOHNNY (200)
Seat 5: Milli000007 (565)
Seat 6: 2f4u1st (280)
Seat 7: KevinManus92 (130)
Seat 8: WouDer86 (445)
Seat 9: irisblossom (240)
2f4u1st posts the small blind of 25
KevinManus92 posts the big blind of 50
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to GoDallasCowboys [Ah As]
WouDer86 folds
irisblossom folds
GoDallasCowboys raises to 150
bcrocky folds
ILOVEMYJOHNNY folds
Milli000007 folds
2f4u1st folds
KevinManus92 calls 80, and is all in
GoDallasCowboys shows [Ah As]
KevinManus92 shows [Jd Qh]
Uncalled bet of 20 returned to GoDallasCowboys
*** FLOP *** [Ts 7c 8h]
*** TURN *** [Ts 7c 8h] [9d]
*** RIVER *** [Ts 7c 8h 9d] [7h]
GoDallasCowboys shows two pair, Aces and Sevens
KevinManus92 shows a straight, Queen high
KevinManus92 wins the pot (285) with a straight, Queen high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 285 | Rake 0
Board: [Ts 7c 8h 9d 7h]
Seat 1: GoDallasCowboys showed [Ah As] and lost with two pair, Aces and Sevens
Seat 2: bcrocky didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: ILOVEMYJOHNNY didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Milli000007 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: 2f4u1st (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: KevinManus92 (big blind) showed [Jd Qh] and won (285) with a straight, Queen high
Seat 8: WouDer86 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: irisblossom didn't bet (folded)


Full Tilt Poker Game #17148940438: $3.50+$0.30 Sit&Go (Sup Turbo) (128392436), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 11:45:49 ET - 2009/12/28
Seat 1: GoDallasCowboys (585)
Seat 2: bcrocky (360)
Seat 3: ILOVEMYJOHNNY (300)
Seat 5: Milli000007 (270)
Seat 6: 2f4u1st (300)
Seat 7: KevinManus92 (300), is sitting out
Seat 8: WouDer86 (345)
Seat 9: irisblossom (240)
Milli000007 posts the small blind of 15
2f4u1st posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to GoDallasCowboys [Ks Ad]
KevinManus92 folds
WouDer86 folds
irisblossom folds
GoDallasCowboys raises to 105
bcrocky folds
ILOVEMYJOHNNY folds
Milli000007 raises to 270, and is all in
2f4u1st folds
GoDallasCowboys calls 165
Milli000007 shows [Qc Kc]
GoDallasCowboys shows [Ks Ad]
*** FLOP *** [Kh 9d Ac]
*** TURN *** [Kh 9d Ac] [Qd]
*** RIVER *** [Kh 9d Ac Qd] [Qs]
Milli000007 shows a full house, Queens full of Kings
GoDallasCowboys shows two pair, Aces and Kings
Milli000007 wins the pot (570) with a full house, Queens full of Kings
GoDallasCowboys: WHAT?!
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 570 | Rake 0
Board: [Kh 9d Ac Qd Qs]
Seat 1: GoDallasCowboys showed [Ks Ad] and lost with two pair, Aces and Kings
Seat 2: bcrocky didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: ILOVEMYJOHNNY didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Milli000007 (small blind) showed [Qc Kc] and won (570) with a full house, Queens full of Kings
Seat 6: 2f4u1st (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: KevinManus92 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: WouDer86 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: irisblossom didn't bet (folded)

[tridentgum0]

I don't like that GoCowboys guy.

[pacifistWITHgun]

I just got back from like my worst poker game ever, honestly I don't even think I was dealt a single face card. I just gave up halfway through and went all in with some crap and put myself out of my misery...

There was this one ridiculous hand though, the cards down were like 10 of spades, 10 of something else, two other spades and another card... three guys go in. The one that goes all in has Q and J of spades. Next guys flips, he's got K ace, both spades. Third guy flips, full house. The guys with the flushes were so rattled.

[plague]

I just got back from like my worst poker game ever, honestly I don't even think I was dealt a single face card. I just gave up halfway through and went all in with some crap and put myself out of my misery...

There was this one ridiculous hand though, the cards down were like 10 of spades, 10 of something else, two other spades and another card... three guys go in. The one that goes all in has Q and J of spades. Next guys flips, he's got K ace, both spades. Third guy flips, full house. The guys with the flushes were so rattled.

I do all-in every hand if I'm just in a hurry. :)

I had the flush thing happen to me the other day in a tournament. Although there wasn't a pair showing on the board. We were short handed, so I raised with an A,X suited. Got the flush on the flop, and I checked. Opponent raised all in on the turn and I called. He had a set. The board paired on the river. I came back to win though.

[plague]

I cracked aces. I think it was karma for him slow rolling me. He actually went into the tank before calling me with aces.

Full Tilt Poker Game #18711341005: 2,000 Play Money Sit & Go (141998945), Table 1 - 50/100 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:32:26 ET - 2010/02/23
Seat 1: plagueboy (1,150)
Seat 2: fishmonger6879 (5,316)
Seat 4: stvice42 (2,560), is sitting out
Seat 6: Kuschel34 (4,474), is sitting out
plagueboy posts the small blind of 50
fishmonger6879 posts the big blind of 100
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to plagueboy [9h Js]
stvice42 folds
Kuschel34 folds
plagueboy raises to 1,150, and is all in
fishmonger6879 has 15 seconds left to act
fishmonger6879 calls 1,050
plagueboy shows [9h Js]
fishmonger6879 shows [Ad As]
*** FLOP *** [8d Qd Ts]
*** TURN *** [8d Qd Ts] [7c]
*** RIVER *** [8d Qd Ts 7c] [Jh]
plagueboy: nice slow roll
plagueboy shows a straight, Queen high
fishmonger6879 shows a pair of Aces
plagueboy wins the pot (2,300) with a straight, Queen high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,300 | Rake 0
Board: [8d Qd Ts 7c Jh]
Seat 1: plagueboy (small blind) showed [9h Js] and won (2,300) with a straight, Queen high
Seat 2: fishmonger6879 (big blind) showed [Ad As] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 4: stvice42 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Kuschel34 (button) didn't bet (folded)

[Droosies]

I just made a horrible play, but based on my instincts it was the obvious one.

We're down to heads up and I have the button. Blinds are only 40/80 as my agressive play pretty much got everyone on tilt and the tournament didn't last long. Enemy has 6,916 chips and I have 6,464. He's pretty much raising 3xbb every time and I'm folding waiting for a playable hand. Six hands later, I get the best cards so far, and I decide to actually play.

I have 3c, 6c and I call the bb. As usual, he raises but only 2xbb and I call.

The flop comes 6s, 5d, Qd. I hit something, but I know that he's going to lead out with a bet whether he hit it or not, and he does. He insta bets the 320 pot, and I call.

Turn is 10d and he insta bets the 960 pot, and I really don't think anything has improved his hand since he's insta betting. I call again.

River is 7d. He insta goes all in. I think for a minute, and put him on a total bluff, and I call.

He had 4s, Ks. I win 13,008 chips, leaving him with 412 chips. Since he's on tilt because of my call, he's easy to pick off after that, and I win the tournament.

This isn't a bad call at all. Enemy was being uber aggressive so you made the right play following your read. The problem here was his instantaneous moves. I'm assuming that in every other hand, he was raising right away as well, so that means little in this hand. If he had been thinking about it and raising sporadically, you'd have mucked the 36c pre-flop, but 36c is a decent hand heads-up based solely on it's drawing potential against a player whose shown that he's just going to raise every hand and hope to get lucky. The only difference I'd have made is I'd have popped him on the flop. You had middle pair, so in case he has a Q or two diamongs, he's not calling, and with just a pair of 6's in that board, you really don't want to continue the action. All in all, not a bad play considering the enemy's tendencies.

[plague]

Check out this sick hand. Note that I bought in short at $3.50.

Full Tilt Poker Game #18793441864: Table Forum - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 15:50:03 ET - 2010/02/26
Seat 1: plagueboy ($3.74)
Seat 2: leconpit ($6.90)
Seat 3: Skaidrusis ($10.77)
Seat 4: Had_a_Life ($3.49)
Seat 5: D7-pinGu ($11.19)
Seat 6: tembel1 ($6.66)
Seat 7: Barmaleuss ($10.05)
Seat 8: DrTommig82 ($12.30)
Seat 9: gusti2727 ($10.55)
Barmaleuss posts the small blind of $0.05
DrTommig82 posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to plagueboy [Kh Ah]
gusti2727 folds
plagueboy raises to $0.30
leconpit calls $0.30
Skaidrusis folds
Had_a_Life folds
D7-pinGu folds
tembel1 calls $0.30
Barmaleuss folds
DrTommig82 folds
*** FLOP *** [6s 5h 7d]
plagueboy bets $0.75
leconpit calls $0.75
tembel1 calls $0.75
*** TURN *** [6s 5h 7d] [Td]
plagueboy has 15 seconds left to act
plagueboy bets $1.50
leconpit calls $1.50
tembel1 folds
*** RIVER *** [6s 5h 7d Td] [7s]
plagueboy bets $1.19, and is all in
leconpit calls $1.19
*** SHOW DOWN ***
plagueboy shows [Kh Ah] a pair of Sevens
leconpit mucks
plagueboy wins the pot ($8.11) with a pair of Sevens
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $8.68 | Rake $0.57
Board: [6s 5h 7d Td 7s]
Seat 1: plagueboy showed [Kh Ah] and won ($8.11) with a pair of Sevens
Seat 2: leconpit mucked [As 9h] - a pair of Sevens
Seat 3: Skaidrusis didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Had_a_Life didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: D7-pinGu didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: tembel1 (button) folded on the Turn
Seat 7: Barmaleuss (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: DrTommig82 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: gusti2727 didn't bet (folded)

[plague]

Here's all of my bad beats today from one session, which ended up leaving me $3.50 down at the end.

Full Tilt Poker Game #18819209516: Table Mach 10 - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 13:47:24 ET - 2010/02/27
Seat 1: ViannoRama ($5)
Seat 2: anarhy5thf ($4.91)
Seat 3: BeckSobaka ($14.54)
Seat 4: plagueboy ($6)
Seat 5: NathanielBaran ($3.80)
Seat 6: psu828694 ($9.15)
Seat 7: Wiedzmen ($16.26)
Seat 8: Cloudas ($10)
Seat 9: jeffatalbanyny ($7.80)
NathanielBaran posts the small blind of $0.05
psu828694 posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to plagueboy [Ad Qc]
Wiedzmen folds
Cloudas has 8 seconds left to act
Cloudas has timed out
Cloudas folds
jeffatalbanyny folds
ViannoRama folds
anarhy5thf folds
BeckSobaka raises to $0.35
plagueboy calls $0.35
NathanielBaran folds
psu828694 folds
*** FLOP *** [3c Qs 2c]
BeckSobaka bets $0.50
plagueboy raises to $5.65, and is all in
BeckSobaka calls $5.15
plagueboy shows [Ad Qc]
BeckSobaka shows [Kc Jc]
*** TURN *** [3c Qs 2c] [Tc]
*** RIVER *** [3c Qs 2c Tc] [5h]
plagueboy shows a pair of Queens
BeckSobaka shows a flush, King high
BeckSobaka wins the pot ($11.34) with a flush, King high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $12.15 | Rake $0.81
Board: [3c Qs 2c Tc 5h]
Seat 1: ViannoRama didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: anarhy5thf didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: BeckSobaka showed [Kc Jc] and won ($11.34) with a flush, King high
Seat 4: plagueboy (button) showed [Ad Qc] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 5: NathanielBaran (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: psu828694 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: Wiedzmen didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: Cloudas didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: jeffatalbanyny didn't bet (folded)

Full Tilt Poker Game #18819517309: Table Mach 10 - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:00:47 ET - 2010/02/27
Seat 1: Hoppel1980 ($10)
Seat 2: bugeyebug ($12.21)
Seat 3: Muehlbach ($3.45)
Seat 4: HjalmarSN ($10.34)
Seat 5: plagueboy ($4.50)
Seat 6: inevermiss ($7.42)
Seat 7: cienkiq ($24.55)
Seat 8: missyskiffy ($18.79)
Seat 9: Evelan ($14.27)
HjalmarSN posts the small blind of $0.05
plagueboy posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to plagueboy [Kd Kh]
inevermiss has 8 seconds left to act
inevermiss folds
cienkiq folds
missyskiffy folds
Evelan folds
Hoppel1980 folds
bugeyebug folds
Muehlbach raises to $0.30
HjalmarSN calls $0.25
plagueboy raises to $4.50, and is all in
Muehlbach folds
HjalmarSN calls $4.20
plagueboy shows [Kd Kh]
HjalmarSN shows [Kc Ah]
*** FLOP *** [Ts Jh 9s]
*** TURN *** [Ts Jh 9s] [Qs]
*** RIVER *** [Ts Jh 9s Qs] [8s]
plagueboy shows a straight, King high
HjalmarSN shows a straight, Ace high
HjalmarSN wins the pot ($8.68) with a straight, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $9.30 | Rake $0.62
Board: [Ts Jh 9s Qs 8s]
Seat 1: Hoppel1980 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: bugeyebug didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Muehlbach (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: HjalmarSN (small blind) showed [Kc Ah] and won ($8.68) with a straight, Ace high
Seat 5: plagueboy (big blind) showed [Kd Kh] and lost with a straight, King high
Seat 6: inevermiss didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: cienkiq didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: missyskiffy didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: Evelan didn't bet (folded)

Full Tilt Poker Game #18819834114: Table Mach 10 - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:13:00 ET - 2010/02/27
Seat 1: csipee1978 ($4)
Seat 2: jvnbean ($9.68)
Seat 3: slin27 ($12.21)
Seat 4: plagueboy ($5)
Seat 5: SilvioTheLegend ($4)
Seat 6: Rhycar ($14.14)
Seat 7: My Mystic Pizza ($9.88)
Seat 8: Dubrik ($4.49)
Seat 9: reeno22 ($4.15)
slin27 posts the small blind of $0.05
plagueboy posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to plagueboy [Kc Kd]
SilvioTheLegend calls $0.10
Rhycar folds
My Mystic Pizza folds
Dubrik folds
reeno22 folds
csipee1978 folds
jvnbean folds
slin27 folds
plagueboy has 8 seconds left to act
plagueboy raises to $0.25
SilvioTheLegend calls $0.15
*** FLOP *** [Ks Jh Qc]
plagueboy bets $0.40
SilvioTheLegend calls $0.40
*** TURN *** [Ks Jh Qc] [Ah]
plagueboy has 15 seconds left to act
plagueboy bets $0.70
SilvioTheLegend calls $0.70
*** RIVER *** [Ks Jh Qc Ah] [7d]
plagueboy has 15 seconds left to act
plagueboy bets $1.80
SilvioTheLegend raises to $2.65, and is all in
plagueboy calls $0.85
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SilvioTheLegend shows [Ts 9s] a straight, Ace high
plagueboy mucks
SilvioTheLegend wins the pot ($7.52) with a straight, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $8.05 | Rake $0.53
Board: [Ks Jh Qc Ah 7d]
Seat 1: csipee1978 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: jvnbean (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: slin27 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: plagueboy (big blind) mucked [Kc Kd] - three of a kind, Kings
Seat 5: SilvioTheLegend showed [Ts 9s] and won ($7.52) with a straight, Ace high
Seat 6: Rhycar didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: My Mystic Pizza didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: Dubrik didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: reeno22 didn't bet (folded)

Full Tilt Poker Game #18820408692: Table Mach 10 - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:34:49 ET - 2010/02/27
Seat 1: plagueboy ($4.71)
Seat 2: YO-Zeke ($2.50)
Seat 3: applejackking ($11.54)
Seat 4: marvik007 ($30.33)
Seat 5: sk69sk ($5.24)
Seat 6: AZder1 ($7.90)
Seat 7: Pokerzombie1987 ($1.69)
Seat 8: gaki2301 ($5.97)
Seat 9: Silvaner-1 ($10.18)
Silvaner-1 posts the small blind of $0.05
plagueboy posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to plagueboy [Jd Jh]
YO-Zeke folds
applejackking folds
marvik007 raises to $0.35
sk69sk folds
AZder1 calls $0.35
Pokerzombie1987 folds
gaki2301 folds
Silvaner-1 folds
plagueboy calls $0.25
*** FLOP *** [Th Js 4c]
plagueboy bets $4.36, and is all in
marvik007 calls $4.36
AZder1 folds
plagueboy shows [Jd Jh]
marvik007 shows [Kd Kc]
*** TURN *** [Th Js 4c] [Ah]
*** RIVER *** [Th Js 4c Ah] [Qs]
plagueboy shows three of a kind, Jacks
marvik007 shows a straight, Ace high
marvik007 wins the pot ($9.17) with a straight, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $9.82 | Rake $0.65
Board: [Th Js 4c Ah Qs]
Seat 1: plagueboy (big blind) showed [Jd Jh] and lost with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 2: YO-Zeke didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: applejackking didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: marvik007 showed [Kd Kc] and won ($9.17) with a straight, Ace high
Seat 5: sk69sk didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: AZder1 folded on the Flop
Seat 7: Pokerzombie1987 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: gaki2301 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: Silvaner-1 (small blind) folded before the Flop

[Droosies]

The one thing I've noticed is you really don't know when to fold or slow down.


Here's all of my bad beats today from one session, which ended up leaving me $3.50 down at the end.

Full Tilt Poker Game #18819209516: Table Mach 10 - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 13:47:24 ET - 2010/02/27
Seat 1: ViannoRama ($5)
Seat 2: anarhy5thf ($4.91)
Seat 3: BeckSobaka ($14.54)
Seat 4: plagueboy ($6)
Seat 5: NathanielBaran ($3.80)
Seat 6: psu828694 ($9.15)
Seat 7: Wiedzmen ($16.26)
Seat 8: Cloudas ($10)
Seat 9: jeffatalbanyny ($7.80)
NathanielBaran posts the small blind of $0.05
psu828694 posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to plagueboy [Ad Qc]
BeckSobaka raises to $0.35
plagueboy calls $0.35
*** FLOP *** [3c Qs 2c]
BeckSobaka bets $0.50
plagueboy raises to $5.65, and is all in
BeckSobaka calls $5.15
plagueboy shows [Ad Qc]
BeckSobaka shows [Kc Jc]
*** TURN *** [3c Qs 2c] [Tc]
*** RIVER *** [3c Qs 2c Tc] [5h]
plagueboy shows a pair of Queens
BeckSobaka shows a flush, King high
BeckSobaka wins the pot ($11.34) with a flush, King high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $12.15 | Rake $0.81
Board: [3c Qs 2c Tc 5h]
Seat 3: BeckSobaka showed [Kc Jc] and won ($11.34) with a flush, King high
Seat 4: plagueboy (button) showed [Ad Qc] and lost with a pair of Queens

This is not a bad call on the enemy's part considering his stack. He has the over card and the flush draw so he wins with any K or club. When the money goes into the pot, he's roughly a coin flip to win the hand. By raising all-in, you got rid of any chance to save money on a coin flip. You could've raised a smaller amount to let the guy know you hit. Then when the third club came out, you could've slowed it down and maybe saved a little bit of money.


Full Tilt Poker Game #18819517309: Table Mach 10 - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:00:47 ET - 2010/02/27
Seat 1: Hoppel1980 ($10)
Seat 2: bugeyebug ($12.21)
Seat 3: Muehlbach ($3.45)
Seat 4: HjalmarSN ($10.34)
Seat 5: plagueboy ($4.50)
Seat 6: inevermiss ($7.42)
Seat 7: cienkiq ($24.55)
Seat 8: missyskiffy ($18.79)
Seat 9: Evelan ($14.27)
HjalmarSN posts the small blind of $0.05
plagueboy posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to plagueboy [Kd Kh]
Muehlbach raises to $0.30
HjalmarSN calls $0.25
plagueboy raises to $4.50, and is all in
Muehlbach folds
HjalmarSN calls $4.20
plagueboy shows [Kd Kh]
HjalmarSN shows [Kc Ah]
*** FLOP *** [Ts Jh 9s]
*** TURN *** [Ts Jh 9s] [Qs]
*** RIVER *** [Ts Jh 9s Qs] [8s]
plagueboy shows a straight, King high
HjalmarSN shows a straight, Ace high
HjalmarSN wins the pot ($8.68) with a straight, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $9.30 | Rake $0.62
Board: [Ts Jh 9s Qs 8s]
Seat 4: HjalmarSN (small blind) showed [Kc Ah] and won ($8.68) with a straight, Ace high
Seat 5: plagueboy (big blind) showed [Kd Kh] and lost with a straight, King high

Again, your problem is you're TOO aggressive. If you had just re-raised to say $1, you'd have been called by AK. Off the 9TJ flop, you could bet out safely with your over pair and gutshot. This would be a very tough call for AK because you could easily have hit that kind of a flop and he'd only have Ace high with a gutshot. You could've won a smaller pot playing this way instead of losing a monster.


Full Tilt Poker Game #18819834114: Table Mach 10 - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:13:00 ET - 2010/02/27
Seat 1: csipee1978 ($4)
Seat 2: jvnbean ($9.68)
Seat 3: slin27 ($12.21)
Seat 4: plagueboy ($5)
Seat 5: SilvioTheLegend ($4)
Seat 6: Rhycar ($14.14)
Seat 7: My Mystic Pizza ($9.88)
Seat 8: Dubrik ($4.49)
Seat 9: reeno22 ($4.15)
slin27 posts the small blind of $0.05
plagueboy posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to plagueboy [Kc Kd]
SilvioTheLegend calls $0.10
plagueboy raises to $0.25
SilvioTheLegend calls $0.15
*** FLOP *** [Ks Jh Qc]
plagueboy bets $0.40
SilvioTheLegend calls $0.40
*** TURN *** [Ks Jh Qc] [Ah]
plagueboy bets $0.70
SilvioTheLegend calls $0.70
*** RIVER *** [Ks Jh Qc Ah] [7d]
plagueboy bets $1.80
SilvioTheLegend raises to $2.65, and is all in
plagueboy calls $0.85
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SilvioTheLegend shows [Ts 9s] a straight, Ace high
SilvioTheLegend wins the pot ($7.52) with a straight, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $8.05 | Rake $0.53
Board: [Ks Jh Qc Ah 7d]
Seat 1: csipee1978 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: jvnbean (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: slin27 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: plagueboy (big blind) mucked [Kc Kd] - three of a kind, Kings
Seat 5: SilvioTheLegend showed [Ts 9s] and won ($7.52) with a straight, Ace high
Seat 6: Rhycar didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: My Mystic Pizza didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: Dubrik didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: reeno22 didn't bet (folded)

This was just a flat out HORRIBLE play on your part. You need to realize when you may be behind in hands. Yes, I realize you had top two pair, but into an AKQJ board, you have to realize any 10 kills you. The second he called that bet on the turn, you should've checked the river. By betting out on the river, you've priced yourself in to his re-raise. You check the river, he probably bets small to guarantee a call and you don't go broke on that hand.


Full Tilt Poker Game #18820408692: Table Mach 10 - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:34:49 ET - 2010/02/27
Seat 1: plagueboy ($4.71)
Seat 2: YO-Zeke ($2.50)
Seat 3: applejackking ($11.54)
Seat 4: marvik007 ($30.33)
Seat 5: sk69sk ($5.24)
Seat 6: AZder1 ($7.90)
Seat 7: Pokerzombie1987 ($1.69)
Seat 8: gaki2301 ($5.97)
Seat 9: Silvaner-1 ($10.18)
Silvaner-1 posts the small blind of $0.05
plagueboy posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to plagueboy [Jd Jh]
marvik007 raises to $0.35
AZder1 calls $0.35
plagueboy calls $0.25
*** FLOP *** [Th Js 4c]
plagueboy bets $4.36, and is all in
marvik007 calls $4.36
plagueboy shows [Jd Jh]
marvik007 shows [Kd Kc]
*** TURN *** [Th Js 4c] [Ah]
*** RIVER *** [Th Js 4c Ah] [Qs]
plagueboy shows three of a kind, Jacks
marvik007 shows a straight, Ace high
marvik007 wins the pot ($9.17) with a straight, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $9.82 | Rake $0.65
Board: [Th Js 4c Ah Qs]
Seat 1: plagueboy (big blind) showed [Jd Jh] and lost with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 2: YO-Zeke didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: applejackking didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: marvik007 showed [Kd Kc] and won ($9.17) with a straight, Ace high
Seat 5: sk69sk didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: AZder1 folded on the Flop
Seat 7: Pokerzombie1987 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: gaki2301 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: Silvaner-1 (small blind) folded before the Flop

This isn't really a bad beat. It sucks the way it turned out, but you can't blame the guy for playing the hand the way he did. Had he had K7 or something then yes, that's a bad beat, but he was playing an overpair to the board. You disguised your hand nicely by smooth calling the flop, but there was nothing in that flop to scare him off of Kings. Just chalk that one up to rotten luck. You were just destined to lose that hand.

Long story short, the way you play in the long run, you're going to win a lot of small pots, but lose a lot of big ones. By shoving all in, the only way people will call you is if they have a monster hand or a monster draw. Either way, it's hard to win that way in the long run. What you need to learn how to do is to extract money from your opponents when you flop monsters, and also slow down when it appears you could be beat.

[plague]

I didn't have top two pair on the one hand. I had a set of kings. He flopped a straight by calling 4xbb with 9,10. I couldn't put him on that kind of call. I put him on two face cards and couldn't put him on A,10. I figured he had two pair, because I didn't see him calling 2/3rds the pot post flop raise with a pair and a straight draw.

I feel that I was lucky to have gotten called in all of these hands as I had them dominated in all but one. Four cards to a flush draw after the flop isn't a coin flip. It's somewhere around 36%. That was the hand where the opponent had the best odds out of all of these three at hitting. I have no problem with getting it all in when I'm that much in favor.

[Droosies]

I didn't have top two pair on the one hand. I had a set of kings. He flopped a straight by calling 4xbb with 9,10. I couldn't put him on that kind of call. I put him on two face cards and couldn't put him on A,10. I figured he had two pair, because I didn't see him calling 2/3rds the pot post flop raise with a pair and a straight draw.

I feel that I was lucky to have gotten called in all of these hands as I had them dominated in all but one. Four cards to a flush draw after the flop isn't a coin flip. It's somewhere around 36%. That was the hand where the opponent had the best odds out of all of these three at hitting. I have no problem with getting it all in when I'm that much in favor.

I realized that after I hit send that you had trips and not top two, but regardless, the bet on the flop was OK, but then the board read AKQJ on the turn, that's when you slow down. Think about it this way...what would you have done if the board were K953...but they were all spades. Would you stll play it the same way knowing that any spade would kill you? Same thing applies here. As soon as he called your bet on the turn, you should've checked the river. You were in a situation where the only way he's calling your bet is if you're beat.

Also in that hand you were a coin flip because he could've also hit a King to win the hand. So he had 3 Kings and the 8 remaining clubs. That's 11 outs. He also had a backdoor straight opportunity that adds 5% to the hand. So 11 outs (Rule of 4) is 44% + the roughly 5% and that's 49%. It was a coin flip.

[aggiesrul8]

Droosies hit it squarely on the head. (At least just from looking at the hands you post) The way you are playing, you will win very small pots, while setting yourself up to lose too many large pots.

It appears like you enjoy being hyper-aggresive in your play (appears like you are all-in the majority of the time pre-flop or after the flop....). If this is the way you like to play, who am I to tell you not to? But, as an example, you get K-K UTG. A simple raise (3-8x the BB) would likely give you more action than auto going all in. The theory is then, if someone else raises, you re-raise.

I realize I am rambling, and after lunch, I'll come back and explain some more... :)

[Droosies]

I realize I am rambling, and after lunch, I'll come back and explain some more... :)

This has been a long ass lunch, but to explain it more, let's say you're in the first hand of a tournament, and you get AK or JJ under the gun, the way I've seen you play, I'd think your first instict would be to shove all in. This would be the wrong play for oh so many reasons. The only thing that will happen is either you'll win the small and big blind or you'll get called by QQ, KK or AA and be out. (In Full Tilt terms, you'll have 1,545 chips, or you'll be entering another tourney) Yes, in the lower levels, this isn't always the case as people are usually a lot more frivilous with their chips, but if you have any dreams of one day raising beyond the .05/.10 NL game, you're going to need to learn to slow down.

[aggiesrul8]

This has been a long ass lunch, but to explain it more, let's say you're in the first hand of a tournament, and you get AK or JJ under the gun, the way I've seen you play, I'd think your first instict would be to shove all in. This would be the wrong play for oh so many reasons. The only thing that will happen is either you'll win the small and big blind or you'll get called by QQ, KK or AA and be out. (In Full Tilt terms, you'll have 1,545 chips, or you'll be entering another tourney) Yes, in the lower levels, this isn't always the case as people are usually a lot more frivilous with their chips, but if you have any dreams of one day raising beyond the .05/.10 NL game, you're going to need to learn to slow down.

LOL..... Lunch turned into a meeting until 5:30 P.M. yesterday. Which then continued from 8:00 A.M. this morning until about :30 minutes ago. Sucks.. but I'm back now biatches :).

Droosies, what you laid out is exactly what I am talking about. I fear that sometimes people really believe the only way to play no-limit poker is going all-in (due to seeing the hands on TV in which everyone is generally all-in). The folks you see consistently making money (I'll just use ring games as this seems to be what you have taken up playing) are not those that are all-in every 3 hands. Playing .05/.10 NL online is not where folks 'make' money. Sure, you may come out winning $15-$20 bucks in an hour, but the level of play at that level allows too much luck of the draw to come in. Folks call with BS hands because, hey, they only bought in for $5.

It may seem that going all-in with these hands is the 'best' way to maximize your profits. However, over the course of a week of playing like this, the odds are that you will lose much more money than you will win. The key to being a good poker player is being able to make good decisions about hands to play, making good decisions on hands to fold, and making good decisions based upon table position, pot odds, implied pot odds, and 'reads' of other players. The great majority of these actions (besides what cards to play initially) are done after community cards are turned.

[eyecawl]

A majority of posts in this thread are wrong or use flawed logic. I registered because as I was reading the thread, I couldn't stand to read any more of them without commenting. Here are some examples:


Correction: It's one of the most frustrating things about poker online. All of these online sites use a "fairness" logic that you can read about in their T&C or EULA (can't remember where it's specified). Basically what it says is that if you're doing really well for a while, it'll start giving you really great starting hands (like pocket aces), but those starting hands won't be winning hands if played to a showdown. It's all in the name of "fairness", to try to keep the chips more evenly spread around the players.

It's a bunch of crap, if you ask me. Carbon Poker, Everest Poker, Party Poker, they're some of the worst offenders of using this.

This is 100% wrong. Please don't post stuff like this if you don't know what you're talking about. Online poker on big sites like Carbon, Everest or Party is completely randomized and fair. I guarantee that you will not find such a section in any of their T&Cs or EULAs. It is a common misconception that online poker is "rigged" (it isn't).







Full Tilt Poker Game #18819517309: Table Mach 10 - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:00:47 ET - 2010/02/27
Seat 1: Hoppel1980 ($10)
Seat 2: bugeyebug ($12.21)
Seat 3: Muehlbach ($3.45)
Seat 4: HjalmarSN ($10.34)
Seat 5: plagueboy ($4.50)
Seat 6: inevermiss ($7.42)
Seat 7: cienkiq ($24.55)
Seat 8: missyskiffy ($18.79)
Seat 9: Evelan ($14.27)
HjalmarSN posts the small blind of $0.05
plagueboy posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to plagueboy [Kd Kh]
Muehlbach raises to $0.30
HjalmarSN calls $0.25
plagueboy raises to $4.50, and is all in
Muehlbach folds
HjalmarSN calls $4.20
plagueboy shows [Kd Kh]
HjalmarSN shows [Kc Ah]
*** FLOP *** [Ts Jh 9s]
*** TURN *** [Ts Jh 9s] [Qs]
*** RIVER *** [Ts Jh 9s Qs] [8s]
plagueboy shows a straight, King high
HjalmarSN shows a straight, Ace high
HjalmarSN wins the pot ($8.68) with a straight, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $9.30 | Rake $0.62
Board: [Ts Jh 9s Qs 8s]
Seat 4: HjalmarSN (small blind) showed [Kc Ah] and won ($8.68) with a straight, Ace high
Seat 5: plagueboy (big blind) showed [Kd Kh] and lost with a straight, King high


Again, your problem is you're TOO aggressive. If you had just re-raised to say $1, you'd have been called by AK. Off the 9TJ flop, you could bet out safely with your over pair and gutshot. This would be a very tough call for AK because you could easily have hit that kind of a flop and he'd only have Ace high with a gutshot. You could've won a smaller pot playing this way instead of losing a monster.


This analysis is flawed in more than one way, but here's the main one: Let me say first that I agree that he didn't play the hand perfectly, but if he follows your advice and wins a small pot, he makes less money in the long run than if he moves all in as he did.

As the hand played out, he was a 70% favorite to win (30% chance to lose), and there was $9.30 in the pot. So, in expectation, at the end of the hand he will have .7*$9.30 + .3*$0 = $6.51

If he plays a small pot as you suggested, there will be $.30 from Muehlbach and $1 from HjalmarSN in the pot preflop (and $1 from plagueboy - total pot of $2.30). If plagueboy then bets and wins the pot on the flop, he gains the $1.30 that his opponents had invested preflop. Now his stack sits at $4.50 + $1.30 = $5.80.

Would you rather have $6.51 or $5.80? If you answered $6.51, then moving all in preflop would be preferable to your proposed "winning a small pot" strategy. It is ok to put a lot of money in and play a big pot if your edge is large enough. In fact, if your edge is large enough, you would rather play a large pot then just win a small pot by making the opponent fold.




You played against a stupid person.
Do not play poker with a stupid person.
Who the hell raises on a 6c8c with two singles on the flop? A sane person would have known full well that you were holding at least one more (if not the pocket rockets, which you were).

*Edit: on the other hand, *you* should have gone all-in on him and called his bluff before he had a chance to make a hand. He would have folded.

Another common misconception. Why don't you want to play poker with a stupid person? Playing poker with stupid people, people who don't understand the game, and generally bad players is simply the most profitable situation to be in at a poker table. There is a reason that these players are considered bad. It's because they make bad plays - plays that that don't make sense when considering the odds. It is for this reason that you will make a lot of money off of them a majority of the time. It is frustrating when they catch their draw on occasion, but just remember that the times that they miss far outweigh the times they hit, and you are making money in the long run.

[Apples]

http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/10/03/04/2220203/How-To-Play-Poker-With-Your-Rock-Band-Drum-Kit?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashd ot%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

[Droosies]

This analysis is flawed in more than one way, but here's the main one: Let me say first that I agree that he didn't play the hand perfectly, but if he follows your advice and wins a small pot, he makes less money in the long run than if he moves all in as he did.

As the hand played out, he was a 70% favorite to win (30% chance to lose), and there was $9.30 in the pot. So, in expectation, at the end of the hand he will have .7*$9.30 + .3*$0 = $6.51

If he plays a small pot as you suggested, there will be $.30 from Muehlbach and $1 from HjalmarSN in the pot preflop (and $1 from plagueboy - total pot of $2.30). If plagueboy then bets and wins the pot on the flop, he gains the $1.30 that his opponents had invested preflop. Now his stack sits at $4.50 + $1.30 = $5.80.

Would you rather have $6.51 or $5.80? If you answered $6.51, then moving all in preflop would be preferable to your proposed "winning a small pot" strategy. It is ok to put a lot of money in and play a big pot if your edge is large enough. In fact, if your edge is large enough, you would rather play a large pot then just win a small pot by making the opponent fold.

You will NEVER get me to believe that shoving $4.50 into a pot of .75 is a correct play. Especially with a monster like KK. Shoving removes any kind of fold equity, because it works both ways. Let's say plague raises to $1 and gets called but this time the flop comes A46 and the other player puts out a sizeable bet. Now plague can lay down his hand having not risked it all preflop. On the flip side, he raises to $1, and the flop comes 9TJ. While still a scary flop, a set is the only real hands you'd have to worry about. AK is most likely laying down in this situation as he's missed his flop and only has a gut shot. The most likely situation you'll have here is someone playing AJ in which case he gets his money in better than he would've shoving preflop. In this scenario though, the other player would most likely have folded and he'd have won a $2-$3 pot rather than losing a $9.40 one.

[GodKilla666]

not really a bad beat, but a good story.
when i was 21 my grandad, dad, & I went out to las vegas. one night we decide to go to binion's & play hold em. we sit down, dad on one end & me at the other. no one knows we're related.
we're playing a few hand when the two of us end up in a pot together, alone from the rest of the table. we each have a pair of jacks after the flop, though at this point he has the higher kicker. the turn comes, blank, but a higher kicker than either of us has. the river comes up a seven, which pairs the board. it bailed me out cuz i would have lost, but it gives us each two pair, jacks & sevens, and the same kicker. we end up splitting the pot, my dad & me. made us both smile....
i end up winning $1.50 at the end of the night. i can say "i went to vegas, played poker, & won." GOOD TIMES

[eyecawl]

You will NEVER get me to believe that shoving $4.50 into a pot of .75 is a correct play. Especially with a monster like KK. Shoving removes any kind of fold equity, because it works both ways. Let's say plague raises to $1 and gets called but this time the flop comes A46 and the other player puts out a sizeable bet. Now plague can lay down his hand having not risked it all preflop. On the flip side, he raises to $1, and the flop comes 9TJ. While still a scary flop, a set is the only real hands you'd have to worry about. AK is most likely laying down in this situation as he's missed his flop and only has a gut shot. The most likely situation you'll have here is someone playing AJ in which case he gets his money in better than he would've shoving preflop. In this scenario though, the other player would most likely have folded and he'd have won a $2-$3 pot rather than losing a $9.40 one.

It depends what you mean by correct. If you mean optimal (there's no other way to win more money), then I agree that shoving
$4.50 into $0.75 is not correct/optimal. It is really hard to find the exact optimal play in most situations in poker. I also agree with you that raising to $1 and then playing well after the flop is closer to optimal than shoving preflop.

I'm just pointing out that playing to win small pots and avoiding big pots is not always correct. In your original analysis I thought you implied that you raise to $1 with the goal of winning a small pot on the flop (I already showed that this doesn't win you as much money as shoving preflop in my previous post). You can raise to $1 and still have the goal of playing a big pot with a big edge after the flop since KK will usually still have a big edge post flop.

I was also pointing out that him moving all in preflop does not lose him money in the long run, he actually wins money in the long run.

[Droosies]

I'm just pointing out that playing to win small pots and avoiding big pots is not always correct. In your original analysis I thought you implied that you raise to $1 with the goal of winning a small pot on the flop (I already showed that this doesn't win you as much money as shoving preflop in my previous post). You can raise to $1 and still have the goal of playing a big pot with a big edge after the flop since KK will usually still have a big edge post flop.

I was also pointing out that him moving all in preflop does not lose him money in the long run, he actually wins money in the long run.

You're missing my point. I'm not against big pots, but you want to get your money in as good as you can if you're betting it all, and preflop is not the time to do that. As I said, with KK, raising the bet to $1 still makes a nice pot as both players in the hand will probably call the bet. Now if an A hits the flop, he's not invested enough that he has to call anything more, but he'll know he's behind and can muck the hand. But again, let's say someone called with AJ. You may be able to get them to throw all their money in on the flop with thier top pair. Or better yet if they played KJ and the flop came J47, you have the chance to take a LOT of money. It's not about small vs. big pots, it's about getting all your money in safely with as little risk as possible. If that means folding trips into a JQKA board, then so be it.

[plague]

My decisions were all +EV. If I'm better than 50% to win, I'm very happy to get ALL of my money in. As long as I do this consistently, I will win over time.

Anyway, here's a crazy Razz hand.

Full Tilt Poker Game #19227375090: $150 Freeroll (146219007), Table 723 - 50/100 Ante 10 - Limit Razz - 18:14:13 ET - 2010/03/13
Seat 1: WILDCHICKEN1347 (2,625)
Seat 2: pjsmith1979 (4,100)
Seat 4: tepsha (380)
Seat 5: gunther73 (2,430)
Seat 6: mafiotucosty (1,385), is sitting out
Seat 7: plagueboy (220)
Seat 8: Greigadon (870)
WILDCHICKEN1347 antes 10
pjsmith1979 antes 10
tepsha antes 10
gunther73 antes 10
mafiotucosty antes 10
plagueboy antes 10
Greigadon antes 10
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to pjsmith1979 [Js]
Dealt to tepsha [Jd]
Dealt to gunther73 [6s]
Dealt to mafiotucosty [5c]
Dealt to plagueboy [Ah 2d] [3s]
Dealt to Greigadon [Qh]
Dealt to WILDCHICKEN1347 [4s]
Greigadon is high with [Qh]
DomChuck sits down
DomChuck adds 360
Greigadon brings in for 15
WILDCHICKEN1347 calls 15
pjsmith1979 folds
tepsha calls 15
gunther73 folds
mafiotucosty folds
plagueboy completes it to 50
Greigadon has 15 seconds left to act
Greigadon folds
WILDCHICKEN1347 calls 35
tepsha calls 35
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to tepsha [Jd] [9c]
Dealt to plagueboy [Ah 2d 3s] [3d]
Dealt to WILDCHICKEN1347 [4s] [Qc]
tepsha checks
plagueboy bets 50
WILDCHICKEN1347 calls 50
tepsha calls 50
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to tepsha [Jd 9c] [7h]
Dealt to plagueboy [Ah 2d 3s 3d] [3h]
Dealt to WILDCHICKEN1347 [4s Qc] [9s]
tepsha checks
plagueboy checks
WILDCHICKEN1347 has 15 seconds left to act
WILDCHICKEN1347 checks
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to tepsha [Jd 9c 7h] [8c]
Dealt to plagueboy [Ah 2d 3s 3d 3h] [3c]
Dealt to WILDCHICKEN1347 [4s Qc 9s] [Ac]
plagueboy: lol
tepsha checks
plagueboy checks
WILDCHICKEN1347 bets 100
tepsha has 15 seconds left to act
tepsha folds
plagueboy folds
Uncalled bet of 100 returned to WILDCHICKEN1347
WILDCHICKEN1347 mucks
WILDCHICKEN1347 wins the pot (385)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 385 | Rake 0
Seat 1: WILDCHICKEN1347 collected (385), mucked
Seat 2: pjsmith1979 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 4: tepsha folded on 6th St.
Seat 5: gunther73 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 6: mafiotucosty folded on 3rd St.
Seat 7: plagueboy folded on 6th St.
Seat 8: Greigadon folded on 3rd St.

[plague]

If I would have doubled up here, I would have been in third place. Instead, I finished in 14th.

Full Tilt Poker Game #19642755237: Pokersteamroom.com rewards trny (143647011), Table 187 - 2500/5000 Ante 600 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:03:59 ET - 2010/03/28
Seat 1: ShEpMaN87 (538,053)
Seat 2: Egorych (463,040)
Seat 3: Sk1ba (389,825)
Seat 5: Heroes SPB (62,422)
Seat 6: Pamarka3030 (416,587)
Seat 8: lucasvilar (93,673)
Seat 9: plagueboy (219,074)
ShEpMaN87 antes 600
Egorych antes 600
Sk1ba antes 600
Heroes SPB antes 600
Pamarka3030 antes 600
lucasvilar antes 600
plagueboy antes 600
plagueboy posts the small blind of 2,500
ShEpMaN87 posts the big blind of 5,000
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to plagueboy [Ad Ah]
Egorych raises to 21,700
Sk1ba folds
Heroes SPB folds
Pamarka3030 folds
lucasvilar folds
plagueboy raises to 218,474, and is all in
ShEpMaN87 folds
Egorych calls 196,774
plagueboy shows [Ad Ah]
Egorych shows [Th Td]
*** FLOP *** [6c Tc 5c]
*** TURN *** [6c Tc 5c] [9h]
*** RIVER *** [6c Tc 5c 9h] [5d]
plagueboy shows two pair, Aces and Fives
Egorych shows a full house, Tens full of Fives
Egorych wins the pot (446,148) with a full house, Tens full of Fives
plagueboy stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 446,148 | Rake 0
Board: [6c Tc 5c 9h 5d]
Seat 1: ShEpMaN87 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: Egorych showed [Th Td] and won (446,148) with a full house, Tens full of Fives
Seat 3: Sk1ba folded before the Flop
Seat 5: Heroes SPB folded before the Flop
Seat 6: Pamarka3030 folded before the Flop
Seat 8: lucasvilar (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: plagueboy (small blind) showed [Ad Ah] and lost with two pair, Aces and Fives

[G_tarRoCK3R]

haha that razz hand is awesome :p sounds like something that would happen to me. AA hand, thats a bad beat and a half....sucks.