Its Time for Real Guitar Makers to Make Rock Band Guitars!

[gcrutch]

I think that Fender and Gibson should make Rock Band and Guitar Hero Guitars that are made from the same materials as real electric guitars. Use wood or graphite, or high density plastic and sell then for $100 to $150 dollars each. I guarantee you have a market for this right now. People are tired of the crap quality or toy like feel of the current controllers and are ready for the heavy duty gear.

[TribalDancer]

I think it's still a little early in the game to bank on that, but I know for me personally I would invest more for a cooler guitar (that doesn't break)! :)

[SLCdragons102]

yea my guitar broke today so im just using the GH2 one but they really need to make pne tht doesnt brake

[phulcrum]

You can buy these already. They are real guitars modded with GH/RB inards. Last time I checked they were selling for $400.

[TribalDancer]

Link?

And it would be nice if it wasn't a real guitar modded, hence the high cost. Just something with more of a real feel.

[markandkrystal]

This is the closest thing i have found so far. It seems to be a step in the right direction. Just need to get some for Rock Band now.

http://www.artguitar.com/servlet/StoreFront

[phulcrum]

Those are the ones I was talking about.

[dietcoke]

They say PS2-compatible :(

[cjkuhlenbeck]

and ps3 xbox360 too...keep readin

[DrEvyl666]

I'd probably buy one if they just made one that looked like a normal guitar and didn't have some band's logo on it.

[Punkrockdrummer]

This is the closest thing i have found so far. It seems to be a step in the right direction. Just need to get some for Rock Band now.

http://www.artguitar.com/servlet/StoreFront

Dude, those guitars are ****in sick!

[Maggot_Brain]

$400 is about $300 more than I'm willing to pay.

[gcrutch]

You can buy real electric guitars for 180 - 200 dollars so I'm pretty sure there will be some price drop for "real" guitar controllers by another competing company in the future - if not, here is another business opportunity for someone...

[Rastak]

$400 is pretty steep. Tack on another $300 and I could get a decent 5 string bass.

[Fee]

Im sorry but $400 for a fake guitar is a bit much.

[JethroNull]

OK, I'm going to bite on this: I have just such a beast squirming it's way out of my head and onto my bench right now. It's a real guitar with strings and a standard 1/4inch audio out, but also a controller connector too. It's not midi like the Ediface box (which also sounds like a cool solution if you already have a suitable axe), but would be a complete guitar/controller solution. So what would people pay for a 'real' guitar that also works with GH/RB?

[chillzatl]

what they should do is license some of the more iconic shapes to 3rd party peripheral companies and let them make plastic controllers like we have today. That's a market with some real money making potential. I don't think there's much potential in "real" guitar controllers though.

[rworne]

what they should do is license some of the more iconic shapes to 3rd party peripheral companies and let them make plastic controllers like we have today. That's a market with some real money making potential. I don't think there's much potential in "real" guitar controllers though.

Why not?

You don't need some super $$$ guitar to start with. The ones selling for cheap at Target are fine for this purpose. You are not buying these for their sound quality, just a decent "base" to build on with the proper heft and feel.

I'd pay for one of these - but without the flashy paint job. I'd want better guts too. I suppose we all have to wait until the stand alone controllers start shipping, so people can start gutting them and experimenting.

[AliceInChained]

You can buy these already. They are real guitars modded with GH/RB inards. Last time I checked they were selling for $400.

400?:eek:

damn...

[chillzatl]

Why not?

You don't need some super $$$ guitar to start with. The ones selling for cheap at Target are fine for this purpose. You are not buying these for their sound quality, just a decent "base" to build on with the proper heft and feel.

I'd pay for one of these - but without the flashy paint job. I'd want better guts too. I suppose we all have to wait until the stand alone controllers start shipping, so people can start gutting them and experimenting.

Why is there no market for $200+ game controllers that just happen to be made out of real guitar parts but add nothing to the game otherwise? Hmm.. The answer is in the question. It's going to be expensive and it adds nothing to the game.

[BhindBluEyes430]

do you mean something like this
http://www.epiphone.com/images/N_PP06h.jpg

[NSUmarty_5]

Not to be mean but please stop complaining about the toy like feel. IT IS A TOY its a video game. There is no way you can get gibson to make a real guitar gut it and make it for a video game and sell it for $100. Their market is for people with talent not ones who can hit a strum bar and press colors. once again its a game. A great game just let it be that. If you want to feel something real buy a real guitar and jam out on that.

[Nasenbluten]

lololol

For the price you pay for the fake guitar you can go buy yourself a real one and actually learn how to play a guitar

Kinda pathetic to see people trying to make that much money from gutting a guitar and adding some colored buttons fancy logos and a strumbar.

They look cool and all dont get me wrong
But ridiculous price tag for a real/fake guitar

[JethroNull]

I think everyone here is in basic agreement:

GAME Guitar = good
REAL Guitar = good
GAME controller posing as REAL guitar = cool, but not at $400!

But, what about a REAL guitar that actually plays real music (or on which you could learn) and that ALSO works as a controller? Would that not be the best thing ever?

[morehemipower]

Maybe another company will do this, that would be cool. The game could teach you how to learn the guitar with a real guitar! I dont hink rock band will change their game. Its good for a video game!

[LisleGuy2001]

I'd just settle for a modded guitar that I could use with my XBox 360. All I saw on that site were guitars for PS2. :-(

[dfjdejulio]

Why not?

I think it's pretty safe to say that over 90% of the people who enjoy these games have zero interest in making any kind of real music. There's a small number of people who'd go nutso for what you're talking about, but the vast majority, I think, wouldn't get anything out of it.

[rworne]

I think it's pretty safe to say that over 90% of the people who enjoy these games have zero interest in making any kind of real music. There's a small number of people who'd go nutso for what you're talking about, but the vast majority, I think, wouldn't get anything out of it.

I agree. That's why we are seeing some smaller operations cranking these things out. Then again, ION is kicking around the idea of an "enhanced" drum controller based off of their cheap electronic drum kit.

There are the hardcore folks - several people here are hard at work hooking up electronic drum sets with much success. I just want a better controller. I have no gripes about the Strat, but I want something that can stand up a bit better than what we have now.

They (someone) can release a better controller - the first company that releases a decent controller with the full RB feature set will be getting my money. I might even spring for another Strat if the controllers coming out soon have the kinks worked out.

[JethroNull]

...There's a small number of people who'd go nutso for what you're talking about, but the vast majority, I think, wouldn't get anything out of it.

Without a doubt it is only the "nutso" crowd that people like me would target with our products. If I thought it would be a mass market product I'd hide under the bed thinking about how to build it in those quantities.


I agree. That's why we are seeing some smaller operations cranking these things out.

They (someone) can release a better controller - the first company that releases a decent controller with the full RB feature set will be getting my money. I might even spring for another Strat if the controllers coming out soon have the kinks worked out.

Maybe I'm "someone". I'm not a pro luthier but I've long been in the business of developing oddball electronics for various industries and am also a Rock Band fan - seems like a good fit. If I was to propose a real wood n' chrome guitar with strings and frets and all that goes to make a real, twangy instrument, and then added the controller functions using quality components so it lasts, and then (I'm swallowing hard) pitched it at $150-$200, would anyone buy it?

If I then said: tunable strum sensitivity, adjustable overdrive angle, no crummy contacts to bend or tarnish and maybe cross compatibility for Xbox and PS, would that interest anybody?

[Tenshi]

Without a doubt it is only the "nutso" crowd that people like me would target with our products. If I thought it would be a mass market product I'd hide under the bed thinking about how to build it in those quantities.



Maybe I'm "someone". I'm not a pro luthier but I've long been in the business of developing oddball electronics for various industries and am also a Rock Band fan - seems like a good fit. If I was to propose a real wood n' chrome guitar with strings and frets and all that goes to make a real, twangy instrument, and then added the controller functions using quality components so it lasts, and then (I'm swallowing hard) pitched it at $150-$200, would anyone buy it?

If I then said: tunable strum sensitivity, adjustable overdrive angle, no crummy contacts to bend or tarnish and maybe cross compatibility for Xbox and PS, would that interest anybody?

I sertenly would!!! :D

[ddub]

Here you go, a real guitar that teaches you how to play with nice flashing lights

http://www.modernguitars.com/archives/000295.html

$600 retail

[JethroNull]

I sertenly would!!! :D

Good to see at least one enthusiastic person! So, let's pretend you are not the only one. Can I ask what particular things I mentioned that really appeal to you, and whether you have any other 'must haves' or 'if only's'?

[Tenshi]

Good to see at least one enthusiastic person! So, let's pretend you are not the only one. Can I ask what particular things I mentioned that really appeal to you, and whether you have any other 'must haves' or 'if only's'?

Well the most important thing is to get rid of the plastic feeling of the strat so as you said, some chrome and wood or better plastic that makes it more heavy and of course the size of a real guitar. Its a guy on ebay that have made a real guitar string modification instead of the strumbar and that looks really great but I don't know how good it is for playing, if its good or better I would really like to see that.

The price is important too of course. 150$ I think is good, 200$ feels a little to high but that depends on what I get. As I said, the feel is the most important so if you could make one that feels real when you hold it its a go for me :)

If you could make something in the price range of 100-150$ that feels good I can promise you that you will get lots of people who will buy it.

Please get back to me, I'm really interested. The bad thing is that I live in Sweden but hey, thats the minor problem ;)

Here is my email:

safe.boy@hotmail.com

[Wolfwere]

Maybe I'm "someone". I'm not a pro luthier but I've long been in the business of developing oddball electronics for various industries and am also a Rock Band fan - seems like a good fit. If I was to propose a real wood n' chrome guitar with strings and frets and all that goes to make a real, twangy instrument, and then added the controller functions using quality components so it lasts, and then (I'm swallowing hard) pitched it at $150-$200, would anyone buy it?

If I then said: tunable strum sensitivity, adjustable overdrive angle, no crummy contacts to bend or tarnish and maybe cross compatibility for Xbox and PS, would that interest anybody?

To pique my interest:


Solid, full-size guitar body.
Have a version that skips the "real" guitar ability in order to keep the price down closer to $100. I'd like a better guitar controller, but I have no interest in dealing with strings (especially the calluses you need to build up before you can play for long).
If the same electronics can work on both 360 and PS3 by just switching out the cord, great. That's a good feature. If you have to increase the cost more than a few bucks for different hardware requirements then keep them separated.
Wireless would be outstanding even if it limits a guitar to one platform, but it's not a necessity.
The buttons/frets/whatever should be able to function like the solo frets on the existing RB guitar. They also need to be silent.
The strum bar (no strings on what I'd be willing to buy) can not have a mechanical contact switch.

[TheBatman9111]

After a 2 second search on Google for "guitar blank"

http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/guitars.cfm


Get to work gutting your "toy" guitars now!

[vicious136]

This is the closest thing i have found so far. It seems to be a step in the right direction. Just need to get some for Rock Band now.

http://www.artguitar.com/servlet/StoreFront


Has anyone seen one of these in person? I'm a little skeptical as far as teh "one of a kind hand painted" thing is concerned. If you look at the photos they have on their website they are either guitar controllers with the artwork Photoshopped on to it or they are guitars with all the controller bits Photoshopped on. Either way it's a little fishy and it makes me wonder about quality. The piece of plywood that is holding the buttons on to the fret board makes me wonder too. Also, if you look at the three guitars on the first page they are all the same picture with different pictures pasted on to them and the color of the fret board changed. I sure as *heck* wouldn't drop $400 on something that I don't even get to see the finished product of.

On a side note, I am working on one of these right now. I have a gutted Yamaha Strat copy as a test mule and I'm going to gut my GH2 controller and use its parts. As soon as I am done I'll post pics and let you guys know how it works.


After a 2 second search on Google for "guitar blank"

http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/guitars.cfm


Get to work gutting your "toy" guitars now!

OMG using a Warmoth body for this would be a tragedy :( Their stuff is too high quality to be turned in to toys. If you guys want to make your own I'd suggest looking through pawn shops, on craigslist, or on ebay and find a used guitar for cheap. If you search "Peavey EXP" on ebay quite a few pop up for around $50 and Peaveys are good solid guitars. They'd work pretty well for this.

[TheBatman9111]

Warmoth was the first link to pop up on the search. I can tell by their prices they're quality. The workmanship looks nice, too. I posted it up, too, for those complaining that $400 was too expensive when all the "work" is already done for you. Plug n play.

I was about to suggest gutting a pawn shop guitar, too. If I were any good with electronics, I'd be all over it. The only problem I see in the short term is finding the right area of the neck to inlay the fret buttons. It's a nice sized investment gutting a new GH/RB guitar into a real one. If you mess it up, that's a lot of cash down the tubes.

Let's not forget woodworking skill. I keep a full woodshop and have a friend with one, too. I don't even know that if we combined skills/shops that we'd get a good end result the first time. Maybe the second time...third is always a charm. :D

[Tenshi]

To pique my interest:


Solid, full-size guitar body.
Have a version that skips the "real" guitar ability in order to keep the price down closer to $100. I'd like a better guitar controller, but I have no interest in dealing with strings (especially the calluses you need to build up before you can play for long).
If the same electronics can work on both 360 and PS3 by just switching out the cord, great. That's a good feature. If you have to increase the cost more than a few bucks for different hardware requirements then keep them separated.
Wireless would be outstanding even if it limits a guitar to one platform, but it's not a necessity.
The buttons/frets/whatever should be able to function like the solo frets on the existing RB guitar. They also need to be silent.
The strum bar (no strings on what I'd be willing to buy) can not have a mechanical contact switch.


I agree with you on all parts. A real string thing is maybe to go over the edge and the price will go up too.

[Tenshi]

Warmoth was the first link to pop up on the search. I can tell by their prices they're quality. The workmanship looks nice, too. I posted it up, too, for those complaining that $400 was too expensive when all the "work" is already done for you. Plug n play.

I was about to suggest gutting a pawn shop guitar, too. If I were any good with electronics, I'd be all over it. The only problem I see in the short term is finding the right area of the neck to inlay the fret buttons. It's a nice sized investment gutting a new GH/RB guitar into a real one. If you mess it up, that's a lot of cash down the tubes.

Let's not forget woodworking skill. I keep a full woodshop and have a friend with one, too. I don't even know that if we combined skills/shops that we'd get a good end result the first time. Maybe the second time...third is always a charm. :D

I wish you all the best of luck mate and look forward to the result :)

[Goodwolf]

I don't see shelling out more money to play the same 58, and later maybe 116 songs again and again.

The only reason I dropped the 170.00 on it to begin with is because we had some gift certificates to blow at Target.

Don't get me wrong, I love the game, just not enough to spend another 1-200 on it just for a cool looking controller.

[Tenshi]

I don't see shelling out more money to play the same 58, and later maybe 116 songs again and again.

The only reason I dropped the 170.00 on it to begin with is because we had some gift certificates to blow at Target.

Don't get me wrong, I love the game, just not enough to spend another 1-200 on it just for a cool looking controller.

It's not the look thats important, it's the feel and to get something that feels good to play on.

[JethroNull]

What I'm hearing here (and I am conscious this is a small sample group) is that a full size, solid wood, quality contruction, just like a real guitar, BUT, the ability to simultaneously use it as a real guitar or to convert it to one, is not so important. So does anybody like the idea of playing real strings instead of pressing buttons? How about both strings and buttons? I originally had two thoughts:

Detect finger position on a string and convert to the appropriate button activation
or
Place capacitive sensors under the appropriate frets.

Both keep the look of a real guitar and both could be used or converted to a real, playable guitar. Also I had it mind to put the majority of the controller electronics and the rest of the controller buttons in a stomp box. This also keeps the look clean and allows a standard guitar with interchangeable pedals for XBOX 360 or PS3 interface.

BUT maybe this is going too far? Maybe what most people want is a good, solid, reliable, full size controller with fret buttons and all the other controller button onboard. But making sure it was a significant improvement in quality and feel. This I can do too and I'd still add adjustable sensitivity/angle for the tilt detection and adjustable strum sensitivity. Does anybody care if it looks like a hybrid or not?

[Tenshi]

What I'm hearing here (and I am conscious this is a small sample group) is that a full size, solid wood, quality contruction, just like a real guitar, BUT, the ability to simultaneously use it as a real guitar or to convert it to one, is not so important. So does anybody like the idea of playing real strings instead of pressing buttons? How about both strings and buttons? I originally had two thoughts:

Detect finger position on a string and convert to the appropriate button activation
or
Place capacitive sensors under the appropriate frets.

Both keep the look of a real guitar and both could be used or converted to a real, playable guitar. Also I had it mind to put the majority of the controller electronics and the rest of the controller buttons in a stomp box. This also keeps the look clean and allows a standard guitar with interchangeable pedals for XBOX 360 or PS3 interface.

BUT maybe this is going too far? Maybe what most people want is a good, solid, reliable, full size controller with fret buttons and all the other controller button onboard. But making sure it was a significant improvement in quality and feel. This I can do too and I'd still add adjustable sensitivity/angle for the tilt detection and adjustable strum sensitivity. Does anybody care if it looks like a hybrid or not?


I think that the choice of real strings would be nice but if that makes the price to go up much its not that important. The most important thing I think is to have a guitar controller that feels like a real guitar.

I don't care if it looks like a hybrid as long as it looks like a guitar :)

[IslandBoy91]

I saw a KISS special edition guitar somewhere. It was a hollowed out electric guitar with the colored frets embedded into the neck and the strum bar and other buttons stuck in the body. There was a picture of KISS on the body and I believe it was autographed. Obviously it was rediculously expensive and is probably in a display case right now.

I also saw a guitar made of legos. it was pretty sweet

Speaking of KISS, there should be a few songs available for download, Rock and Roll all nite or something

[Tenshi]

I saw a KISS special edition guitar somewhere. It was a hollowed out electric guitar with the colored frets embedded into the neck and the strum bar and other buttons stuck in the body. There was a picture of KISS on the body and I believe it was autographed. Obviously it was rediculously expensive and is probably in a display case right now.

I also saw a guitar made of legos. it was pretty sweet

Speaking of KISS, there should be a few songs available for download, Rock and Roll all nite or something

I think I know what you have seen, the cost for that one was 400$ and thats way to high I think.

[Wolfwere]

What I'm hearing here (and I am conscious this is a small sample group) is that a full size, solid wood, quality contruction, just like a real guitar, BUT, the ability to simultaneously use it as a real guitar or to convert it to one, is not so important. So does anybody like the idea of playing real strings instead of pressing buttons? How about both strings and buttons? I originally had two thoughts:

Detect finger position on a string and convert to the appropriate button activation
or
Place capacitive sensors under the appropriate frets.

Both keep the look of a real guitar and both could be used or converted to a real, playable guitar. Also I had it mind to put the majority of the controller electronics and the rest of the controller buttons in a stomp box. This also keeps the look clean and allows a standard guitar with interchangeable pedals for XBOX 360 or PS3 interface.

BUT maybe this is going too far? Maybe what most people want is a good, solid, reliable, full size controller with fret buttons and all the other controller button onboard. But making sure it was a significant improvement in quality and feel. This I can do too and I'd still add adjustable sensitivity/angle for the tilt detection and adjustable strum sensitivity. Does anybody care if it looks like a hybrid or not?

Well, speaking for myself, the ability use use it as a real guitar is completely pointless. If having that functionality pushes the cost up above what I'd spend if it wasn't present I simply wouldn't buy the product at all. As for it looking like a hybrid... I probably wouldn't care as long as none of the real guitar bits get in the way of using it for the game.

For me, I think that physical buttons are a requirement. I like the strat's moving frets as buttons, but regular buttons like on the GH controllers would be ok if necessary. Strings are nasty to get used to, I know how sore my fingers have gotten goofing around with a guitarist friend of mine. I've also seen how torn up his well-callused fingers get if he plays too much. As for the capacitive resistors, I like being able to keep my fingers ON a button without actually ACTIVATING said button.

Now the stomp box... that sounds interesting. In fact, I'd consider it a feature if you can activate overdrive with your foot. It'd still be really cool if you had wireless connection to the game system. Wire to the box is no big deal at all, but it'd be nice to ditch the ones running across the room.

I think it goes without saying that we need the standard game controller buttons. I've never dealt with a PS3, but there's no reasonable way around it on the 360. You need to be able to navigate around screens, sign in and so forth.

Yes, for me the main idea is to mirror all of the functions of the regular controller in a higher quality unit. Something that feels sturdy. Something that will NOT break under any non-abusive use in under two years. Strumming hard for several hours every day is not abuse, smashing it on the floor is.

[jrinck]

It wouldn't be that hard to use a REAL guitar in Rock Band.

How?

1. Get a real electric guitar. Keep all the strings on it, but for this case, only the thick "E" string is going to ever be used.

2. Make a box, similar to an effects box, that would serve two purposes. The first would be to determine notes played. Playing a note on the "E" string with the first fret held down would convert to "green", playing a note on the second fret would be "red", and so on. The converter box would take the incoming signal from the guitar and properly convert it to a signal that the PS3/XBOX could use.

So the rub lies in making a cheap "box" that can do this conversion in a very quick amount of time. But I see no reason why this wouldn't be doable, and as far as the PS3/XBOX is concerned, it has no idea where the signal is coming from, only that it IS coming.

EDIT: Oh, wait, I'm an idiot. Doing it this way would make it impossible to detect multi-finger "chords". Never mind. :) But you get the idea.

[JethroNull]

That's useful feedback Wolfwere. I also play with my fingers just touching the buttons (so I know I where they are and they don't sneak off). I bet most people do. Actually the reason for maybe using capacitive sensors is only partly cosmetic, they are also very thin and, being non-mechanical, very reliable. But you have good point.

I also like the idea of having the overdrive activation on the stomp box. I had pondered having a wah-wah type pedal and using it for up/down button or maybe trying to make it rock sideways as well to provide the complete 4-way button - but that would be a big mechanical headache.

I'm glad I asked the question, I'm getting very useful feedback. Anybody else got input on their ideal controller?

[JethroNull]

It wouldn't be that hard to use a REAL guitar in Rock Band.
... The converter box would take the incoming signal from the guitar and properly convert it to a signal that the PS3/XBOX could use.

... So the rub lies in making a cheap "box" that can do this conversion in a very quick amount of time...

EDIT: Oh, wait, I'm an idiot. Doing it this way would make it impossible to detect multi-finger "chords". Never mind. :) But you get the idea.

It is doable, but not without mods to the guitar and a VERY clever box. The problem of the multi-finger "chords" could be resolved by turning the frets into contacts. Then by looking to see what frets were electrically 'made' to the string, you'd be able to tell which frets beyond the highest were being pressed. Not an elegant solution, but doable. Alternatively, you could also require the player to use a different string for each fret held - just like playing real chords.

The "box" is not as easy as it seems. The guitar midi world has been struggling with this for ever. The issue is detecting the fundamental frequency from all the harmonics and other noise the pickup hears. It takes several cycles to average all that stuff out which results in perceptible delays in detection. And that obviously means delays in our lightening Rock Band technique. It can and has been done faster but either at the cost of fast, powerful FFT processing or some cludges that work most of the time but are very dependent on things like tuning, type of string, and various imponderables like temperature and how hard the butterfly flaps it's wings in the rain forest. There was an exhibitor at CES that was showing a midi box that had been turned to this purpose for RB/GH.

Since most people so far seem to be favoring a non-stringed device, I should be able to dodge those complexities.

[Wolfwere]

That's useful feedback Wolfwere. I also play with my fingers just touching the buttons (so I know I where they are and they don't sneak off). I bet most people do. Actually the reason for maybe using capacitive sensors is only partly cosmetic, they are also very thin and, being non-mechanical, very reliable. But you have good point.


I'm usually happy to throw my thoughts out for discussion, glad that you're finding them useful.

I definitely see the argument for the capacitive resistors from a durability standpoint, I just can't see that solution being nearly as easy to play as physical switches of some kind for the exact reasons already covered.

I'm not well versed in this stuff, so I might be way off base here, but would it be possible to use a reed switch (like the bass drum pedal uses) for the fret buttons? I know that you need enough space to get the triggering magnet's field away from the switch, not to mention having enough separation between the switches so that the magnet for a button doesn't set off any of its neighbors. Keeping those caveats in mind, if there's enough room to use this option you get to essentially eliminate the possibility of a physical switch breaking while retaining the ability to touch it without setting it off. Best of both worlds.

If you want your box to activate overdrive and act as a wah-wah why not just give it two adjacent sections? Rather than making it tilt 4 directions you just have a left and a right side, both of them move the same way, it's just that one hits overdrive and you can use the other for wah. I'm no designer, but it sure seems like it'd be easier to set things up like that from a mechanical standpoint.

[Tenshi]

Well, speaking for myself, the ability use use it as a real guitar is completely pointless. If having that functionality pushes the cost up above what I'd spend if it wasn't present I simply wouldn't buy the product at all. As for it looking like a hybrid... I probably wouldn't care as long as none of the real guitar bits get in the way of using it for the game.

For me, I think that physical buttons are a requirement. I like the strat's moving frets as buttons, but regular buttons like on the GH controllers would be ok if necessary. Strings are nasty to get used to, I know how sore my fingers have gotten goofing around with a guitarist friend of mine. I've also seen how torn up his well-callused fingers get if he plays too much. As for the capacitive resistors, I like being able to keep my fingers ON a button without actually ACTIVATING said button.

Now the stomp box... that sounds interesting. In fact, I'd consider it a feature if you can activate overdrive with your foot. It'd still be really cool if you had wireless connection to the game system. Wire to the box is no big deal at all, but it'd be nice to ditch the ones running across the room.

I think it goes without saying that we need the standard game controller buttons. I've never dealt with a PS3, but there's no reasonable way around it on the 360. You need to be able to navigate around screens, sign in and so forth.

Yes, for me the main idea is to mirror all of the functions of the regular controller in a higher quality unit. Something that feels sturdy. Something that will NOT break under any non-abusive use in under two years. Strumming hard for several hours every day is not abuse, smashing it on the floor is.

I agree with you totally. To have real strings is a bit over the top and it pushes the price up even though it could be cool as an option.

To do the overdrive with the fot should just be an option cause I think it turnes off the charm of the game and simplifies it and that I don't like. I mean when you rise your guitar neck it should look like the rock star is trying to amuse the fans and thats nice :)

[bandaddy]

I think what everyone really wants is just a higher quality, more realistic looking controller - without going over the top. Most people seem to have a $ limit they would go on this, and going to far with it will just make it cost prohibitive which = low interest.

As far as the pedal for OD, I think that would be awesome, and not detract from the rock band experience whatsoever. It would just be like hitting some effects pedal or something. Would be very nice addition IMO.

[Tenshi]

I think what everyone really wants is just a higher quality, more realistic looking controller - without going over the top. Most people seem to have a $ limit they would go on this, and going to far with it will just make it cost prohibitive which = low interest.

As far as the pedal for OD, I think that would be awesome, and not detract from the rock band experience whatsoever. It would just be like hitting some effects pedal or something. Would be very nice addition IMO.

Yeah I think its what most of us want. A guitar with the feeling of a guitar but with the same buttons as the strat.

I can go with the fotcontroller for the overdrive too, as you said I can pretend that its the effect pedal ;)

[JethroNull]

I agree with you totally. To have real strings is a bit over the top and it pushes the price up even though it could be cool as an option.

To do the overdrive with the fot should just be an option cause I think it turnes off the charm of the game and simplifies it and that I don't like. I mean when you rise your guitar neck it should look like the rock star is trying to amuse the fans and thats nice :)

Wolfwere - your idea to use reed switches certainly helps the relaibility, not quite a good as capacitive, but good enough. Personally I really want to keep the stock look a real guitar and combining the two would mean some serious work on the frets to make them buttons with 2mm of action. I think I need to try the capacitive version and see what people think. Then if it is a disaster, do it the moving switch way. One of the balancing arguments for capacitive is that although you can't leave your finger on the fingerboard, you can wrap your fingers round the much bigger neck and rest the your lower knuckles on the lower side of the neck, just below the frets. This keeps your fingers in position.

This raises another question that maybe you can give me your comments on - in my (constantly morphing) plan, I have a similar capacitive sensor array under the strum area. This keeps the standard look of the guitar and makes it something you could hang on the wall and keep up the pretence that you are a real rock god. Using it would mean strumming up and down as though it was an air guitar (we can all do that right?). But would you prefer an actual strum bar? Something physical to hold and waggle up and down?

One last attempt to win you over to capacitive - capacitive would allow for sensitivity adjustment. Where real buttons on the frets and a physical strum bar are purely on or off at the same place all the time, the capacitive solution would allow for varying the sensitivity which could make their activation as easy and fast as you like. Imagine playing a real solid guitar but with the speed and ease of an air guitar?

On the stomp box. What I was thinking when I mentioned wahwah was the nature of a real wahwah pedal that has a sort of gas (throttle) pedal. So it tilts forward and back which could be used for up and down, if it could rock sideways then it's a complete fourway button. But as I said before, it would be mechanically nightmarish. Tenshi, I agree that the guitar needs to keep the overdrive trigger too (and btw, I'd make that adjustable in angle and sensitivity too).

[hoel54]

I love the game, it has made me and friends spend countless hours Rockin Out
but the more we played the more i saw that the standard guitar i had just wasnt going to cut it
luckily i went online and look at some of the better guitars on the market and found this company

http://www.theantcommandos.com/doubl...e_freedom.aspx

go check em out
they have bass guitars on the way too
i bought a double range freedom V
best decision i have made besides buying rock band itself

[hoel54]

http://store.theantcommandos.com/Guitar_Hero_Controller_s/1.htm

go check these out
i bought one the other day, they are really awesome
and they seem pretty well made, plus if you look in accessories they sell face graphics and an AMP, which is pretty sick too
also they are coming out with a bass guitar too

[JethroNull]

http://store.theantcommandos.com/Guitar_Hero_Controller_s/1.htm

go check these out
i bought one the other day, they are really awesome
and they seem pretty well made, plus if you look in accessories they sell face graphics and an AMP, which is pretty sick too
also they are coming out with a bass guitar too

I think these are PS3 only. Microsoft seems to have some issues with third party controllers. Could be wrong. That is something I havn't addressed - anybody know what the split of Rock Band users is between 360 and PS3? Which platform should I start with (can't do them both at the same time).

The Amp is cool, but I have some ideas there too... ;)

[Tenshi]

Wolfwere - your idea to use reed switches certainly helps the relaibility, not quite a good as capacitive, but good enough. Personally I really want to keep the stock look a real guitar and combining the two would mean some serious work on the frets to make them buttons with 2mm of action. I think I need to try the capacitive version and see what people think. Then if it is a disaster, do it the moving switch way. One of the balancing arguments for capacitive is that although you can't leave your finger on the fingerboard, you can wrap your fingers round the much bigger neck and rest the your lower knuckles on the lower side of the neck, just below the frets. This keeps your fingers in position.

This raises another question that maybe you can give me your comments on - in my (constantly morphing) plan, I have a similar capacitive sensor array under the strum area. This keeps the standard look of the guitar and makes it something you could hang on the wall and keep up the pretence that you are a real rock god. Using it would mean strumming up and down as though it was an air guitar (we can all do that right?). But would you prefer an actual strum bar? Something physical to hold and waggle up and down?

One last attempt to win you over to capacitive - capacitive would allow for sensitivity adjustment. Where real buttons on the frets and a physical strum bar are purely on or off at the same place all the time, the capacitive solution would allow for varying the sensitivity which could make their activation as easy and fast as you like. Imagine playing a real solid guitar but with the speed and ease of an air guitar?

On the stomp box. What I was thinking when I mentioned wahwah was the nature of a real wahwah pedal that has a sort of gas (throttle) pedal. So it tilts forward and back which could be used for up and down, if it could rock sideways then it's a complete fourway button. But as I said before, it would be mechanically nightmarish. Tenshi, I agree that the guitar needs to keep the overdrive trigger too (and btw, I'd make that adjustable in angle and sensitivity too).

This sounds great but one thing that bothers me is if you cant hold your fingers on the buttons it will be hard to know where your hand is, especially
on hard and expert. If you do this I think its a good thing to make something under the neck that you can feel with your fingers so you know where to position your hand and fingers.

I really like the thing with the air guitar feel. When Im playing I play like on an air guitar, I kinda slap the strumbar with my fingers or thumb to get the real feeling.

[Tenshi]

http://store.theantcommandos.com/Guitar_Hero_Controller_s/1.htm

go check these out
i bought one the other day, they are really awesome
and they seem pretty well made, plus if you look in accessories they sell face graphics and an AMP, which is pretty sick too
also they are coming out with a bass guitar too

For one thing, they look like plastic toy guitars and thats one thing we want to avoid in this thread and we who have PS3 can't use them anyway.

For others who doesn't care if it feels like a toy guitar and who have 360 or PS2, go ahead it might be a good way to get a second guitar and one thats maybe have a better quality then the strat.

[JethroNull]

Tenshi, are the Ant Commando guitars PS2 only? That's pretty limited if so, and I agree with what you say, even if they are built from better plastic, it's still plastic! And too small.

Glad you like the air guitar sensor idea, that's my favorite way forward. For the left hand, well, since it's based on the body and neck of a real guitar, it will have real metal frets. So you can 'feel' the edges of those to be sure where your fingers are. Really, it shouldn't be any harder than playing a real guitar... wait, what did I just say? :eek:

[Tenshi]

Tenshi, are the Ant Commando guitars PS2 only? That's pretty limited if so, and I agree with what you say, even if they are built from better plastic, it's still plastic! And too small.

Glad you like the air guitar sensor idea, that's my favorite way forward. For the left hand, well, since it's based on the body and neck of a real guitar, it will have real metal frets. So you can 'feel' the edges of those to be sure where your fingers are. Really, it shouldn't be any harder than playing a real guitar... wait, what did I just say? :eek:

Yes I just talked to them and someone here on the forum has written that it works for PS3 and that thread is now locked so I cant tell them that that is bull, I hope that people check this out first before buying.

Ah, Im so stupid. There are metal frets on a real guitar of course, thats awesome :D

I'm so looking forward to see one of your wonders when you make one :)

[Wolfwere]

Wolfwere - your idea to use reed switches certainly helps the relaibility, not quite a good as capacitive, but good enough. Personally I really want to keep the stock look a real guitar and combining the two would mean some serious work on the frets to make them buttons with 2mm of action. I think I need to try the capacitive version and see what people think. Then if it is a disaster, do it the moving switch way. One of the balancing arguments for capacitive is that although you can't leave your finger on the fingerboard, you can wrap your fingers round the much bigger neck and rest the your lower knuckles on the lower side of the neck, just below the frets. This keeps your fingers in position.

Oh, no argument from me there, there aren't any switch options more durable than capacitive. As others have also mentioned, I'm focused on a button solely from a useability standpoint.

The stock look of a guitar is a wonderful concept, as long as you can achieve it at a reasonable price while making it fulfill all the functionality of the strat it's a big feature.

I'm still worried about the capacitive resistors, though I wouldn't suggest that it's a waste of time to experiment with. It isn't a bad idea, I just have a very hard time imagining it working for me. I'd have an easier time seeing it being viable if your hand never needed to move, then it wouldn't matter nearly as much, but I don't think anybody plays hard/expert without moving their hand at all. I certainly don't.

When you're doing hammer on/pull offs I'm afraid the system will fall apart completely (figuratively speaking). Simply touching the wrong button can screw up the sequence, with physical buttons you can feel your way around a bit without actually messing up your streak. Perhaps that's something you can overcome, but I'm positive it'll be tricky to get all the factors balanced so it plays as easily as the strat.



This raises another question that maybe you can give me your comments on - in my (constantly morphing) plan, I have a similar capacitive sensor array under the strum area. This keeps the standard look of the guitar and makes it something you could hang on the wall and keep up the pretence that you are a real rock god. Using it would mean strumming up and down as though it was an air guitar (we can all do that right?). But would you prefer an actual strum bar? Something physical to hold and waggle up and down?


I'm afraid that I have limited vision. My instinct says that a physical strummer of some sort is needed, but a little voice says that maybe I'm just prejudiced against capacitive anything because I'm used to feeling something. Prejudiced or not, I think that my reasons for not being thrilled about the idea bear consideration.

With a physical contact for the strum activation you know exactly when you're sending a signal to the game. There's no doubt, no fudge factor, if you hit the strum bar (assuming it isn't broken) the signal is sent. If you don't feel the strum bar... well... you missed it, Beavis. Nobody's fault but your own.

With a Magical Field Strummer™ things become much less concrete. You think you should have hit a note, but the game says you didn't. Now there's doubt. Did you not hit the note at the right time in the game or did you not get your fingers close enough to the strummer? Maybe you didn't make quite enough contact with it? Who knows.

Additionally, there could easily be a problem using a capacitive sensor related to accidental hits. Missing notes and not knowing why would be frustrating, but for me accidentally breaking my streak when I didn't even mean to play a note is infuriating. When the song gives me a break I'd really rather not be stressing out about how close my hand is to the magic field. I imagine that even keeping your hand in playing position would be very dangerous due to this possibility.




One last attempt to win you over to capacitive - capacitive would allow for sensitivity adjustment. Where real buttons on the frets and a physical strum bar are purely on or off at the same place all the time, the capacitive solution would allow for varying the sensitivity which could make their activation as easy and fast as you like. Imagine playing a real solid guitar but with the speed and ease of an air guitar?


Adjustability sounds kind of neat, but it doesn't really change my concerns about actually using it for the game. I'd love to be proven wrong about all of this, though. I have absolutely no doubt that using capacitive elements would make the whole thing reliable for the next ten years.

[JethroNull]

You know Wolfwere, I have some of the same concerns, but I can't convince myself one way or another. Since most of the people I've heard from here and elsewhere mostly seem not to care about strings, which was my original thought for the user input, that leaves adding buttons and a strum bar or some new input method. I totally agree that mechanical switches give you a 100% consistent and expected result and so that's got to be a good thing. But then they are also 100% ugly as hell and don't allow any kind of response tuning.

So I think I will give the capacitive sensor solution a go. Try it out myself and if it's not horribly embarrassing, let some other RB/GH fans try it out. I fully expect it to take a little getting used to and it might even be harder, but I hope it will be just, if not more, rewarding to use.

If it is a disaster then I'll develop a tactile (button and strum bar) solution. I'll promise you this though, I'm not putting multi-coloured plastic buttons on my product! But maybe something more discrete - fingerboard matching buttons and maybe a aluminum strum bar. My number one priority is a solid guitar that feels great in your hands, not like a kindergarten toy. Oh and, yes, still keep a sane price!

Your input is much appreciated. Cheers.

[bandaddy]

Maybe somewhat of a compromise. Have you considered using a flex circuit with a vinyl overlay label? Something like you see on the front of a microwave or something? The graphics on the label can be made to look like woodgrain, or to match any type of fretboard, for that matter. I've done several projects at work using these types of overlays that simulate a brushed metal look, OEM colors, or whatever printed on the vinyl.

The individual switches could then be as large as the entire fret area between fret bars, look nice, yet still work like a push button. The buttons on these are also available in different feels, from nearly just touching, to feeling a small click, depending on what you want. Economically, one large overlay with all 5 buttons would probably be comparable in price as if you were to make each one sized to fit between each fret bar of a "real" guitar.

These generally have a flat (very flat) flex circuit cable coming out of them, which can exit the backside of the overlay and into the neck of the guitar. Probably alot easier to deal with the wiring if it came from one single 5 button overlay because of this.

I'm an ME and work with Pro/Engineer CAD software daily, so if you need any help with this project, let me know.

[JethroNull]

I'm an ME and work with Pro/Engineer CAD software daily, so if you need any help with this project, let me know.

Thanks for the offer, you never know. Where are you based?

I also have experience with flex circuits and touch panel type buttons. My plan for the capacitive sensors uses the same construction technique: each sensor the same size as the space between the frets, all hidden under the fretboard and traced back to the body electronics with a flex circuit.

Personally though I think I'd rather not have any tactile response than the shallow and feeble or clicky response you get out of membrane keypads. But the possibility of screen printed overlay is a good thought if I made my idea simpler and less labor intensive.

Tenshi, Wolfwere? What do you think about a membrane (microwave or gas pump) type switch? Would it have enough tactile feedback?

Another option is piezoelectric material. Paper thin, just like the capacitive sensor but needing a positive force to activate. No tactile sensation, but you could rest your fingers on the fretboard without triggering it. And the sensitivity could be tunable. A little more difficult to make it work consistently under the fretboard though.

[dcha]

I'm still waiting to use gh2 and 3 guitars.


........

........


........



seriously

[bandaddy]

I'm located in Minnesota, and have Pro/E at home. I'm by no means an electrical type, but I can offer help with any mechanical design or CAD modelling.

I've worked with some membrane switches that are nearly undetectable as a 'click' when pressed, almost feel like the capacitive sensors (actually made to more closely emulate them), but was thinking one with a click would be preferrable for those that like to feel it activate and would also allow fingers to be rested on the buttons at all times. It's really a matter of how soft you want it. I'm not sure about reliability under extreme use, as most membrane switches are not intended to be beat on like these would be. I've never had to research MTBF for them before - just have not had one that would be subjected to this type of use.

[Tenshi]

Thanks for the offer, you never know. Where are you based?

I also have experience with flex circuits and touch panel type buttons. My plan for the capacitive sensors uses the same construction technique: each sensor the same size as the space between the frets, all hidden under the fretboard and traced back to the body electronics with a flex circuit.

Personally though I think I'd rather not have any tactile response than the shallow and feeble or clicky response you get out of membrane keypads. But the possibility of screen printed overlay is a good thought if I made my idea simpler and less labor intensive.

Tenshi, Wolfwere? What do you think about a membrane (microwave or gas pump) type switch? Would it have enough tactile feedback?



Another option is piezoelectric material. Paper thin, just like the capacitive sensor but needing a positive force to activate. No tactile sensation, but you could rest your fingers on the fretboard without triggering it. And the sensitivity could be tunable. A little more difficult to make it work consistently under the fretboard though.

It sounds great and I like the idea but as with everything it has to be tested. For the "magic-field" I was thinking about that all night and as Wolfwere said it will be hard to know when you really hit the note or not and in some way loose the feeling of a guitar cause on a guitar you can feel something when you strike a string so if you do the magic-field thing I think you have to make something in between that get slapped also but then It looses the whole point.

[Wolfwere]

Tenshi, Wolfwere? What do you think about a membrane (microwave or gas pump) type switch? Would it have enough tactile feedback?

Another option is piezoelectric material. Paper thin, just like the capacitive sensor but needing a positive force to activate. No tactile sensation, but you could rest your fingers on the fretboard without triggering it. And the sensitivity could be tunable. A little more difficult to make it work consistently under the fretboard though.

Actually, I think the membrane thing might be just fine, it's definitely worth exploring. If you need a fair bit of force to activate it (not simply touching it, I'd try to match the pressure required on the buttons of the strat) and there's some sort of tactile feedback to signal that you've activated it I don't see any reason to rule the solution out.

The only (very minor) concern I'd have is about longterm durability. I know that historically membrane switches have had a shorter life cycle than other solutions. Membrane keyboards definitely die faster than mechanical keyboards, I'm sure everyone has encountered keypads on ATMs and suchlike that have dead keys. I call this minor becuase, in all honesty, I strongly doubt that anybody is likely to wear out a quality membrane switch during the life of the current game systems.

I dunno what to make of the piezoelectric stuff, I'm not even passingly familiar with it. I'd still be worried about having zero tactile feedback on whether the switch is activated or not, but maybe it'd be ok. That's something I'd have to feel before having a strong opinion about it.

[JethroNull]

Wolfwere, the piezo electric version would have a surface like the membrane (so same as an ATM), but no discernible movement or feedback. But it would be tunable for pressure sensitivity. So there is a straight toss up - tactility or tunability. And actually the same goes for the capacitive solution.

I'll admit I still favor the capacitive, but that is maybe because, knowing how I would do it, I can imagine it better. So I'll clarify a few things to see if it makes any difference to you:

Because the neck of a real guitar is much bigger, your fingers fall in a much better position for pushing buttons OR touching sensors. So your finger tips fall in better alignment and touching the sensors requires less articulation in your fingers. This all equals less finger movement (at least for game playing).

Secondly, the sensor area will be the full distance between each fret and the full width of the neck (minus maybe 1/2" or 10mm) from the lower edge to avoid the lower part of your finger triggering it. So, as long as you keep between the frets, you will always hit the 'button'.

The sensitivity adjustment will allow for setting the 'button pushed' event to be triggerred by anything between merely brushing the surface with the tip of the finger (as you might your girls' cheek;)) to a full on flat pad squashed into the wood.

On the strum 'bar', my idea is to embed two sensors which are long thin strips, analogous to strings on a real guitar. This allows for detection of the direction of strumming (depending on which it detects first).

It would be sized and position to allow activation over a much wider area than the existing little strum bar, basically from where the bridge would be on a real guitar, to where the neck joins the body.

And the sensitivity adjustment would be the same as for the fret buttons. So anything from the lover's caress to full on metal thrash.

These features do not provide any tactile feedback, except I would put an led on the guitar somewhere to aid with sensitivity tuning. BUT, and I think this is the big deal - being able to basically air-guitar without worrying (so much) about where the buttons and strum are, should speed your performance up greatly. And it will look very cool to boot.

Am I gaining any ground?

[Tenshi]

Wolfwere, the piezo electric version would have a surface like the membrane (so same as an ATM), but no discernible movement or feedback. But it would be tunable for pressure sensitivity. So there is a straight toss up - tactility or tunability. And actually the same goes for the capacitive solution.

I'll admit I still favor the capacitive, but that is maybe because, knowing how I would do it, I can imagine it better. So I'll clarify a few things to see if it makes any difference to you:

Because the neck of a real guitar is much bigger, your fingers fall in a much better position for pushing buttons OR touching sensors. So your finger tips fall in better alignment and touching the sensors requires less articulation in your fingers. This all equals less finger movement (at least for game playing).

Secondly, the sensor area will be the full distance between each fret and the full width of the neck (minus maybe 1/2" or 10mm) from the lower edge to avoid the lower part of your finger triggering it. So, as long as you keep between the frets, you will always hit the 'button'.

The sensitivity adjustment will allow for setting the 'button pushed' event to be triggerred by anything between merely brushing the surface with the tip of the finger (as you might your girls' cheek;)) to a full on flat pad squashed into the wood.

On the strum 'bar', my idea is to embed two sensors which are long thin strips, analogous to strings on a real guitar. This allows for detection of the direction of strumming (depending on which it detects first).

It would be sized and position to allow activation over a much wider area than the existing little strum bar, basically from where the bridge would be on a real guitar, to where the neck joins the body.

And the sensitivity adjustment would be the same as for the fret buttons. So anything from the lover's caress to full on metal thrash.

These features do not provide any tactile feedback, except I would put an led on the guitar somewhere to aid with sensitivity tuning. BUT, and I think this is the big deal - being able to basically air-guitar without worrying (so much) about where the buttons and strum are, should speed your performance up greatly. And it will look very cool to boot.

Am I gaining any ground?

With so many options I think you can satisfy many and they can test out different ways to play. I think this sounds awesome indeed. If you can do a guitar like the one you describe I want one!

[Wolfwere]

These features do not provide any tactile feedback, except I would put an led on the guitar somewhere to aid with sensitivity tuning. BUT, and I think this is the big deal - being able to basically air-guitar without worrying (so much) about where the buttons and strum are, should speed your performance up greatly. And it will look very cool to boot.

Am I gaining any ground?

Thought of one last design thing to share: no matter what sort of switches you use on the neck there really should be some way to feel the middle fret while playing. A different texture on the fret itself, some raised notches on it, something to tell your fingers where they're at.

At this point I've already identified the potential problems I see with various ideas, so I'm not going to rehash old information. What it comes down to now is the prototypes you decide to build and which one people like better after they get to try them out.

It was never my intention to convince you NOT to try something, innovation cannot be a slave to preconceived ideas. It may very well be that your original plan will work out perfectly, I'm not nearly egotisical enough to think that just because I have concerns when hearing about an idea it means that nobody will like it when it is completed.

I do hope that my thoughts will help you in evaluating the most important elements of your product. In fact, if you need testers I'd be happy to give you an honest opinion of any hardware you put in my hands. I'm not actually prejudiced against any of the solutions you've detailed despite playing devil's advocate when discussing them, I just want to see you come up with the best product possible.

[JethroNull]

Thought of one last design thing to share: no matter what sort of switches you use on the neck there really should be some way to feel the middle fret while playing. A different texture on the fret itself, some raised notches on it, something to tell your fingers where they're at.

Hmm, I'll give that some thought.


I do hope that my thoughts will help you in evaluating the most important elements of your product. In fact, if you need testers I'd be happy to give you an honest opinion of any hardware you put in my hands. I'm not actually prejudiced against any of the solutions you've detailed despite playing devil's advocate when discussing them, I just want to see you come up with the best product possible.

Oh yes, you've helped a lot. It might seem like I am still going in the opposite direction, but your concerns have given me a great sense of what I have to prove. We agree on a lot of things and that helps too. And like I said before, if it burns, I'll be back with a more mechanical solution and probably seek your input again. Thanks Wolfwere.

I am about ready to give this a shot. I have a source of guitar bodies, controller electronics and am designing the sensor pads. I am thinking of setting up a blog to trace my progress. Maybe I'll post the URL back here when it's up.

[Mickey Buns]

This is the closest thing i have found so far. It seems to be a step in the right direction. Just need to get some for Rock Band now.

http://www.artguitar.com/servlet/StoreFront

Nice guitars, but for $400 big ones, this baby better have strings. I paid less for my 12 string Gibson, Not sure who they trying to appeal to, but you better have some extra cash lying around. :cool:

[capnhowdy69]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e199/capnhowdy69/475736.jpg

That's it. Rock band bits on actual guitar. Make it and I'll buy it. No dumb stomp box. Just that right there with adjustable tilt sensor and a cord. None of that laggy wireless junk. :cool:

[HeadHunter67]

If I was to propose a real wood n' chrome guitar with strings and frets and all that goes to make a real, twangy instrument, and then added the controller functions using quality components so it lasts, and then (I'm swallowing hard) pitched it at $150-$200, would anyone buy it?

If I then said: tunable strum sensitivity, adjustable overdrive angle, no crummy contacts to bend or tarnish and maybe cross compatibility for Xbox and PS, would that interest anybody?

Maybe what most people want is a good, solid, reliable, full size controller with fret buttons and all the other controller button onboard. But making sure it was a significant improvement in quality and feel. This I can do too and I'd still add adjustable sensitivity/angle for the tilt detection and adjustable strum sensitivity.
That's exactly what I'd be looking for! It wouldn't need to be playable like a real guitar. I just want something that is durable, has the heft and feel of a real guitar and doesn't look or last like a toy.

I currently have a PS2 but will be upgrading eventually, down the road. Multi-platform compatibility would be nice but the ability to use the controller in both GH and RB would be a MUST for me.

Wireless would be nice but not essential. Keeping the fret buttons inside the metal ridges of the actual fretboard is a great idea as it would make it easier for me to know what frets I'm on, and it would add a certain authenticity to the feel of playing it.

Basically, if you could make something like those AG Riffmasters, but for around half the price, I'd be VERY interested. A custom paint job is not necessary. :cool:

[Fickle9]

http://www.peavey.com/controller/
Only $400!!

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/10/peaveys-riffmaster-guitar-is-more-expensive-than-your-guitar-he/

[JethroNull]

That's exactly what I'd be looking for! It wouldn't need to be playable like a real guitar. I just want something that is durable, has the heft and feel of a real guitar and doesn't look or last like a toy.

That's exactly my intention.


I currently have a PS2 but will be upgrading eventually, down the road. Multi-platform compatibility would be nice but the ability to use the controller in both GH and RB would be a MUST for me.
Multiple platform will probably come later, though this might be a problem for you since I think it will start with Xbox 360. PS3 might be an add-on adaptor or a different controller (or both). I haven't decided.

GH and RB should be OK, but I can't promise it right now.


Basically, if you could make something like those AG Riffmasters, but for around half the price, I'd be VERY interested. A custom paint job is not necessary. :cool:

My target is a basic model around $150-$175 and, later, some 'specials' for about $200-$250.

Thanks for your interest. Keep an eye on this thread for updates.

[CENACHAINGANG54]

I think that Fender and Gibson should make Rock Band and Guitar Hero Guitars that are made from the same materials as real electric guitars. Use wood or graphite, or high density plastic and sell then for $100 to $150 dollars each. I guarantee you have a market for this right now. People are tired of the crap quality or toy like feel of the current controllers and are ready for the heavy duty gear.

Likewise I think Roland should make the drumsets! As a drummer the way these sets were made is very irritating! I would pay more for a quality set with a bass pedal that does not snap and may a rubber base drum or pad. I am waiting now to see what Mad Catz produces. Cause lord knows they cannot do any worse!

[Tenshi]

Those are the ones I was talking about.

First you must allow 8 weeks get it and second it costs 400$. If I should pay that much I have to test it out first. I read that the fret buttons are wider apart and that makes it harder to play. For half the price I would get one right away.