Ten Speed Cover

[Exayle]

I know this is a bit of a hot topic among several of us, or so I've seen scattered across dozens of threads. I thought I'd condense all the questions, opinions, thoughts, et cetera into one thread.

Ten Speed (of God's Blood & Burial) is obviously a track by Coheed & Cambria, off the album Good Apollo, I'm Burning Star IV | Volume I: From Fear Through the Eyes of Madness. On an interesting note, it is the 04th tracks on the album, following hot on the heels of Welcome Home.

The dilemma; how do two songs, back-to-back on an album and featured in Rock Band, end up being split 50/50 in terms of original-to-cover? It's a good question. Not even HMX knows, apparently.

Someone suggested it was on account of the lyrics? The album is explicit, sure... but I can say with certainty that Welcome Home features worse lyrics, uncensored, than Ten Speed. There's not a single vulgar word to be found. Read up (http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/coheedandcambria/tenspeedofgodsbloodandburial.html) if you don't believe me.

I started discussing the whole DLC/master tracks/rights to use music with my dad, of all people, earlier this evening. He provided a number of reasons why this "Ten Speed dilemma" would occur. Harmonix obviously got the master track to Welcome Home, yes. The master for Ten Speed obviously exists and is within grasp, sure, but it's not on HMX. Either Coheed [or more likely, their record label] decided HMX couldn't have the master. This could obviously be for a number of reasons - legal disputes, most likely.
Why is the song covered? No-one's entirely sure, but it's safe to say it's not on account of lyrics, or lack of being able to find the master track.

So, yeah. I would be ecstatic if this was the original. I'm keeping my fingers crossed it doesn't suck too bad. Some artists seem easy to cover [Aerosmith, Metallica, at least in my opinion] while others have truly peculiar vocals [Rush, Iron Maiden]. Coheed is definitely among the latter. I'm grateful for something by them... but I really hope this is the only time they're covered in DLC.

[creamcheese]

is it actually confirmed, that it's a cover, or that it'll be released at all. By confirmed I mean has someone from Harmonix commented on the January DLC articles ?

[Senkoy]

Yes, it has been confirmed.

I'm also curious about it being a cover. I doubt Hmx would say anything, but i hope they do clear this up.

[Exayle]

I read in the Jan. 22/29th DLC thread that even some people at HMX don't know why it's not the master track. If I had to guess, I'd say only a select few [likely on the legal end] know.

What bothers me is you just know someone out there is going to go to their friend's house and play/hear RB's Ten Speed, then look into the real version and be disgusted by the differences. [I'm only assuming the cover will have subpar vocals... which is a fair assumption, on my part].

[FamousLastX]

Agreed. Coheed has such a unique sound, this is going to be a hard song for others to cover. I'll buy it anyways I'm sure, just hoping it doesn't get butchered too bad.

[Frygel]

Since I heard Welcome Home on Rock Band, I have come to love Coheed and all their music. This was definately one I was hoping for on DLC... but the problem is..

Can Claudio Sanchez be covered?

[DirrtyBird]

I am really hoping that the cover isnt horrible on vocals. Claudio's voice is pretty unique.

Again i do not know why they can not get the real song. if they could get Welcome Home i do not see why they can not get Ten Speed.

[FultonPub]

I wonder if it is a licensing/cost issue?

[rockst01]

It's definitely not a licensing or cost issue since Welcome Home is a master. Harmonix probably couldn't use the master track for this song. If the drums on the original recording don't have a seperate bass drum track it is unusable. This is most likely why this song is a cover.

[Superfro]

It's definitely not a licensing or cost issue since Welcome Home is a master.

To be fair, unless you work for Harmonix there's really no way for you to know if this is true. A song being cleared to be in the overall game release could operate completely differently under the DLC process.

[mxmarks]

I totally believe that the cover vs. master thing is something none of us can really comprehend. Reading that article about how they go through the masters (what a dream job...) and hear every nuance, and every track - these guys at HMX are literally DISCOVERING ROCK HISTORY. They hear the raw master - masters that have things that were mixed out and never heard from again! That BLOWS my mind.

So with that said, and a semi-successful rock carrer under my belt (we opened for Coheed once!), I have a little insight into how this may have happened. Simply, they MAY have gotten the master, and and it MAY have been so complex, or so unique, it was easier (and more importantly kept on schedule) to cover it.

With a complex band like Coheed, I wouldn't be suprised if they had some unconventional ways of recording tracks. Something minor, like if they nailed that song in one take in the same room - would cause such an insane bleed through that it wouldn't sound right mixed in the Rock Band way. Im not saying thats the reason, just saying that it's totally possible that the master was there for them, and it wasn't what they needed.

Of all the Coheed songs though, "Ten Speed" is one that is easy on people who aren't Claudio for the most part. The vox don't get too out of control.

I guess we just have to remember, they're employees of a company, and they have deadlines now. The game is out, and DLC must flow or else we'll have thier heads! I can totally see it being a judgement call when listening to a complex master to just have Wavegroup record a cover to save time. I'm sure Wavegroup has specific instructions on how to record the songs for HMX, so getting a cover ready must be a similar process for EVERY cover. Who knows what you'll find in a master...

[HMXJohnD]

I'm not an expert, but I can see how much conversation there has been about this, so I wanted to throw these thoughts out. I'm not in the audio department, so I don't speak for them, but maybe this can clarify the approach to generally discussing covers versus masters and the rationale behind the availability and use of one or the other. NOTE: I'm not setting out to necessarily answer the question of why THIS SONG is a cover, but just inform discussion in general. Feel free to continue to speculate :)

mxmarks makes a really excellent point above regarding bleed and different processes for recording. It's important to remember that in the process of recording, you're managing a lot of tracks with the eventual hope of summing them all together. For a song to work in Rock Band, we have to love that summed song but need the opposite: certain elements pulled apart.

Recording can be sort of a weird art. I know when my bands record songs, the format isn't always consistent tune to tune. Because of this, sometimes things like bleed (hearing bass in the drum track for instance) or drums getting "bounced down" (everything summed to one or two tracks, rather than snare, bass, tom, hi hat, over head etc etc) become a part of how the song is put to track. Bouncing down a track can make a song easier to work with in mixing/mastering, free up space for other things, or generally simplify the order in which a song is approached. This process can really streamline recording, but it can make using those takes as separated masters impossible down the line.

I don't have a specific answer for this song and why it's a cover, but just because two songs are from the same album or even the same session doesn't mean that the masters will have the same separation or breakdown.

Perhaps more importantly, I played through this song down in QA cause there's been a lot of discussion about it. I'm not a direhard Coheed fan, but I thought the song did a good job of capturing what was fun about the track and was a blast to play. So, for what it's worth, still seems like it would be worth rocking out to if you enjoy it. Anyway, that's just my impression from the recording/mastering I've done in life outside of HMX.

[Exayle]

Awesome news man, thanks. I didn't even consider the technical side of things . I figured it'd be a legal issue... but your insight is certainly valued - even outside of [i]Ten Speed.

This could very well be a blessing in disguise. I mean, the people who are really concerned about this being a cover are those that plan on buying the song and - more than likely - support Coheed. And if $03 will let you play guitar, bass, drums, and sing along to an awesome C&C track [opinion], we're all obviously going to pay up.

In-game, when sprites sing Welcome Home, it's sometimes laughable, I'm not going to lie. Hearing Sanchez's voice come from Lumberjack Larry, the goth guy with spiked hair, or the fruity dude with wavy hair and glasses can be a bit much. As long as Ten Speed sounds, say, 80% like the original on vocals, it may seem more fitting that Sanchez's voice isn't flowing from someone who looks nothing like him. Don't get me wrong -- I'd still prefer the master [who wouldn't?], but technically, you could view ups and down to either scenario, and it's really not that bad for any of us to pass up, I'm thinking.

[Ultrace]

What bothers me is you just know someone out there is going to go to their friend's house and play/hear RB's Ten Speed, then look into the real version and be disgusted by the differences. [I'm only assuming the cover will have subpar vocals... which is a fair assumption, on my part].
If they've never heard the song before and like it within Rock Band, then the differences would seem to be negligible enough--clearly the song was enjoyable enough, even if it wasn't perfectly accurate to the original. Now, if they heard the song in RB, hated it, then heard the original later and said it was good, then that's a bad cover.

To put it more directly: if the song is fun to play in the game and enjoyable, then that's what matters. Someone who has never heard the original shouldn't care if it's a good cover if they like the song the game presents.

[icronic]

In-game, when sprites sing Welcome Home, it's sometimes laughable, I'm not going to lie. Hearing Sanchez's voice come from Lumberjack Larry, the goth guy with spiked hair, or the fruity dude with wavy hair and glasses can be a bit much.

Have you ever seen what Sanchez actually looks like? Watching him sing is far more laughable than watching any of the games characters sing. I almost died of laughter the first time I saw the music video for Welcome Home. Here's this rather large somewhat muscular fellow with even larger hair, and an itsy bitsy high girlie voice. To this day I still have trouble watching the live DVD and not cracking up from time to time. And don't get me wrong here, I really do enjoy his singing.

It will really be interesting to hear how Ten Speed turns out though. There is an incredible amount of vocal and guitar harmonies going on in that song, which is actually probably why unlike Welcome Home that this one is a cover. But it's got me thinking, if ever they should have gone for the rhythm guitar instead of bass option, it would be for Coheed stuff since both parts are very unique and probably interesting to play.

[DirrtyBird]

Awesome, thanks for the information. It does make sense about the bleeding of the tracks.

I am still glad that Coheed and Cambria is getting another song on Rock Band.

[pmpboarder]

What if they got Coheed to cover their own song just to piss us forum members off and create controversy over it (which is already obviously has)? :rolleyes:

Seriously, though. You're not listening to the music when you're playing Rock Band -- you're playing it! If you can hear the singer over your own voice, that means you already fail. Turn the vocal track audio DOWN and the mic audio UP!

Harmonix has challenged themselves in getting so much awesome, quality content for us to further enjoy an already complete game. The least you can do is challenge yourself to try and appreciate it.

[Exayle]

Have you ever seen what Sanchez actually looks like? Watching him sing is far more laughable than watching any of the games characters sing.

Sole opinion. I'll admit that Claudio's voice doesn't match his looks, but after being a C&C fan for so long [and seeing so many music videos/performance DVDs], I'm more-than-accustomed to how he looks... and even if an in-game character looks like they have a more "fitting" voice -- well, they're just no Sanchez.

That doesn't matter, though. Like a few of us have pointed out -- you obviously play Rock Band to have fun with the instruments, not so much as to listen to a given artist. I think we'd all prefer the original, but as long as it holds resemblance to the original and is fun to play, I think it'll be a solid DLC all around.

[griffinmills]

To be fair, unless you work for Harmonix there's really no way for you to know if this is true. A song being cleared to be in the overall game release could operate completely differently under the DLC process.

To be fair, the points put forth in his post have been expressed by HMX brand posters on this forum. These posters pretty much said that covers are only used when there is some technical snafu stopping them. Sorry I can't be bothered to dig up the posts.

Whether this is true or not is up to you to accept. They've been very forthright with plenty of info thus far so I choose to accept it until something new comes along and dethrones this view.

[kevinxcore]

why did they pick ten speed? there are much better coheed songs.

[Colby_Jack]

if ever they should have gone for the rhythm guitar instead of bass option, it would be for Coheed stuff since both parts are very unique and probably interesting to play.

I'm going to have to disagreeing with you on that point. Co&Ca has amazing bass sections. Especially, for this song. If anything, I've always thought the bass was the best part of Ten Speed. I am disappointed in that it will be a cover. But I've gotten through the Rush covers with less complaints than originally thought, perhaps it won't be too bad.

And when will we get some of In Keeping Secrets? Come HMX!

[Exayle]

why did they pick ten speed? there are much better coheed songs.

As fanboy as it sounds, any Coheed song is a good song. There's not a single song I wouldn't love to see in RB off any of their 04 albums. Granted, some work better than others, and I'd really prefer to not play their singles [The Suffering, Blood Red Summer, A Favor House Atlantic, The Running Free], I'm still more-than-grateful for any C&C we get... cover or otherwise.

I personally love the song Ten Speed. Could they have picked a bolder, more epic sounding song? Sure. In Keeping Secrets comes to mind, yeah, but Ten Speed brings enough awesomeness to the Rock Band table that I simply can't fathom complaining about the song choice.

Regarding Colby ~ hands down agree about the bass bit. Welcome Home is one of the few songs in RB that I honestly don't mind "settling" for bass. Most C&C tricks sport enough guitar work - quality guitar work - on both bass and guitar that you'd be having a blast playing either.

And C&C obviously isn't getting that much attention from HMX. But when it does, it'll definitely be the more known [read: modern] stuff that gets play. I predict that if Harmonix awards us with more Coheed this year, it'll be something off of No World For Tomorrow. If we're really lucky, and keep our fingers crossed for even more DLC, I believe they'd scrape the surface of IKS.

[creamcheese]

yep, as a fan I'm happy with any song, would love The Crowing or The Light and The Glass (not really a RB friendly song, but I'd play it anyways, just for the end).

I'm especially happy as they've just announced there coming to Aus and NZ, so I'll see them here in Auckland, then hop over the ditch and see them in aussie the next night. woot.

[Seanmasoniscool]

im a huge fan. i'll buy ten speed regardless of how good it sounds. obviously it wont be perfect because noone can cover claudio sanchez. How ridiculous would No World for Tomorrow be in rock band!?

[endlessly]

ooh his voice is so unique
what's so unique about someone who always sounds like he has nasal congestion?

[HeavyMetalKing]

ooh his voice is so unique
what's so unique about someone who always sounds like he has nasal congestion?

Honestly, was this really necessary? Up until you, everyone who posted in this thread was a Coheed fan. If you don't like the band, that's fine, but you don't need to come in here and make your little comments. Keep them to yourself; it's not necessary, and just makes you look like an ass. And just for the pure sake of making a point, I guess you don't like Iron Maiden, Rush, or Led Zeppelin then either? And if you do, you're comment had no place to begin with. Plant, Lee, and Dickinson all sing with high pitched voices, or, as you put it, they "always sound like they have nasal congestion".

For the record, I love all three bands.

That said, I'm going to be getting this song regardless. Ten Speed is a catchy tune that I love singing to in the car and playing on my guitar (I can't play it and sing it at the same time :( ) and it'll be fun to play it in RB with my girl, especially since RB is the only way I can play drums. As for the question "why Ten Speed" I'm thinking HMX may right now only have the license for Good Apollo I songs. I'll be the first to admit GA:I as an entire album wouldn't fit RB (songs like Wake Up and The Lying Lies of Ms. Erica Court, while good, seem a bit too simple for the Coheed formula), but HMX may have gotten the right to choose whatever songs they want off the album, hence the reason we're getting a second song from the same album. But that's just my speculation. I'd love to see NWFT on here, along with some other Coheed songs. Here's hoping.

[KillAutumn]

I've been hoping for Coheed and Cambria since I got Guitar Hero II for Xbox back in April...

Cover or not, I can't wait to download it.

Though I do hear a lot of people wanting more IKSOSE:3, why not any Second Stage Turbine Blades? Huh? It was a good album too. =)

[zack10house]

I just listened to Ten Speed for the first time on youtube (I heard welcome home and immediately went and got all the CoCa albums I could find......however that was only In Keeping Secrets Of Silent Earth:3 and Good Apollo, I'm Burning Star IV, Vol. 2: No World for Tomorrow. both awesome, they're quickly becoming my favorite band) and it's awesome, as long as the cover's good as far as the instruments go I'll play it. as said before, just turn down the vocal track and have fun with it if the vocals aren't spot-on

[Saint_Atomsk]

I'm a huge fan of Coheed & Cambria, and I'm just praying that the cover isn't horrible. I was actually hoping they'd put some songs from their new album as DLC (specifically The Running Free, The End Complete III: The End Complete, and The End Complete IV: The Road & the Damned).

[Exayle]

HeavyMetalKing ~ thanks for addressing Endlessly. You pretty much said exactly what I was thinking, in more or less [but definitely nicer] words.

KillAutumn - as much as I do respect SSTB, I think it's the weakest RB material album Harmonix could pick. Aside from the fact it lacks hits anyone would be remotely familiar with, it's just a bit... I don't know; raw for Rock Band, if that makes any sense. It has a really distinct sound that I just don't see fitting, especially with the later half of the album. Just my opinion though; I'd still totally buy it, if released.

For the record to anyone curious; being the C&C junkie I am, and being both stoked and nervous for 01/29 for the past week now, I fully intend to download the song at 01-02 AM, playing through it on sightread [while hopefully not sucking too bad], and ideally be the first person to upload the video immediately.

I know most of the folks in this thread are going to buy it on the spot, or are hesitant to see the chart + hear the vocals. That being said, I figured the least a guy in my shoes could do is deliver the real deal almost instantly. [As fast as Youtube will let me, anyway]. Just saying, in case anyone was interested.

[Fretbored]

Seriously, then why dont they get another Coheed song like Devil in Jersey City or Blood Red Summer. The point is that we all love them and a cover in my eyes is just not acceptable.

[Exayle]

Not to flame or start something up, but the last 03 pages pretty much discuss why Harmonix had to go with a cover [or at least, valid reasons/possible explanations]. I know it's been said before, but it really holds true;

Covered Coheed DLC > No Coheed DLC.

A lot of people love Rush, and hate the fact everything by Rush has been covered, thus far... but they're still having a blast with the songs. Maybe it won't be so different for those of us in the C&C boat?

[Fretbored]

Yeah ur right but I bet that there are better tracks out there that perhaps they can get the masters for. I mean either way I'm buying Ten Speed. Cant hurt to say otherwise.

[Exayle]

*****in!'
Seriously; go get banned. Or something.

[FultonPub]

I picked up 3 CoCA albums over the weekend which was something I have been meaning to do for awhile. And I am very excited to play Ten Speed. That song rocks. It should be a blast to play. I've liked the CoCA songs I've heard on the radio (A Favor House Atlantic being my favorite) but I never got around to buying their albums.

Well, i'm glad I did because they are really, really good and have earned a spot in my cd changer. I've pretty much been listening to them non stop since I bought them.

Next Tuesday can't get here soon enough for me!

[Exayle]

Thoughts on the cover;

- Fun on guitar. Lacking "should-be" hammer-ons/tricky parts, though.
- Maybe a bit too easy. [Gold Star on sightread]. Definitely no Welcome Home.
- Very lacking vocal cover. That was to be expected.
- Parts of the guitar and original song sound revamped, almost like a "Ten Speed [Remix]".

I'll have a video up way soon.

[Oknark]

Ya I agree it's definitly fun on guitar! There are parts that I do agree seemed missing however.

I was able to easily 5-star it first time through (wasn't trying to go for a gold clear, I was trying to listen to the vocals closly while sight-reading).

The vocal cover at small times sounded very good, but for the most part it's kind of distracting if you are familiar with the regular version of the song I found (especially during the spoken word part in the bridge).

It's definitly fun to play though!

[Exayle]

They totally reworked the dialogue during the bridge. Maybe not rephrased it [it's 01 AM, so I can't blare my TV and *really* hear it], but it sounds very different. I kinda' like it.

Easily worth the $1.99 in my opinion, Coheed fans.

[plummer101]

I was kinda surprised by how good it was I expected this cover to blow and the working man cover to be good I was wrong on both ends

[hamthegreat]

This is by far the worst cover so far.

[KillAutumn]

I'm personally excited to play Ten Speed

and just like LASt week my girlfriend has my Xbox at her house -.-

[KaYotiX]

I got Ten Speed and Working Man, both are decent. Not AMAZING but not bad at all IMO.

We all know Rush is hell to make a cover for and they did a decent job IMO.

[JoshuaB81285]

Ten Speed is quite easy on the guitar end...Gold-starred it on sight read. And yeah, the vocals are really the only thing I had a problem with on the cover.

[Exayle]

This is by far the worst cover so far.
Disagree. As much as I think it doesn't amount to Claudio [and honestly, what does?], I wouldn't call this a gag cover by any means. Go play some Number of the Beast. Then we'll talk.

[whofan]

See, now I seem to be in a pretty small minority here.

I LOVE the cover, I think they did an amazing job on it.

Is it Co & Ca? No, but I wasn't expecting it to be. I think this is the problem that all of you are having when it comes to the covers, you're expecting something that sounds exactly like the original, it ain't going to happen mates.

True, some of the covers are off (i.e. Tom Sawyer, Ballroom Blitz), but most of them are very good if you take them for what they are, covers. "Run To The Hills" (with the exception of the backing vocals), "The Number Of The Beast", "Jukebox Hero" and "Ten Speed (Of God's Blood And Burial) are all excellent covers considering the relative difficulties of the songs and uniqueness of the bands in question.

All is not going to be perfect, go into this with an open mind saying "this may not be the exact same, but who really knows?" and you might find that you enjoy the covers a lot more

[skullpit]

I could care less that it's a cover since I wasn't going to download it anyway. I hate this band.

[Tender-Surrender]

I could care less that it's a cover since I wasn't going to download it anyway. I hate this band.

Thanks for contributing to this topic, it means a lot to us that we received some input by the likes of yourself.

I heard the cover, and I have 2 problems with it. I think he hits it pretty close, but his voice wasn't high enough. If he went up a bit higher it would have been awesome!

Also it seems to be missing rhythm guitar, but maybe I am just missing it.

Other than that, they are covers, and they are really good covers at that. People are born to complain I guess, because if you want a bad cover go to Youtube and look up a cover, and you will see we are blessed to have such good covers.

Nothing, except the master, is going to sound like the original, DUH!

[DirrtyBird]

I just watched a Youtube video of it and it doesnt seem to be all that bad. I actually like the cover and think the singer did a pretty decent job. I mean it is hard to cover Claudio's sound.

Anyways i think it is a good cover. Would i rather have the original? Yes but i am just happy HMX put in 2 Coheed and Cambria songs regardless of cover or master. :)

[xSinstar]

Played it, and didn't overall like it.

Having been a fan of Coheed for 02 years; thanks to a friend named Derek. I just feel that for HMX to pick a song that has an unusable master track was a bad decision. I wish they would have dropped Cuts Marked, Apollo I/II, 2113, Three Evils, In Keeping Secrets, or Everything Evil. Then we will have that solid Coheed song that all the true fans want to play/listen to and enjoy while playing. I mean Welcome Home is 'Heed; and any 'Heed is better than none, but it's the 'Heed that got it's video aired on MTV, and for true fans, progressive based Sanchez and company are so out of MTV's league.

So, overall; it's not that bad. But I'm still waiting.

[Seegs2283]

Having watched it on YouTube only, I actually think the vocals aren't bad.

The thing to remember with both the Burning Star albums is that Claudio doubles his voice pretty much constantly.. sometimes doing one harmony and sometimes multiples. It may be just the vid I watched but it seems like this is missing in the cover, leading it to sound "off". Just a theory.