Singing Difficulty?

[Raider87]

So I don't know if this has been addressed but how will the singing be different based on the difficulties? Or will it be the same on all difficulties??

[Knockout_King]

I'm guessing the leverage that the system gives you will be more so on the easier difficulties. Therefore, you don't have to be right on the pitch, at least close.

[lithiumkc]

I'm guessing the leverage that the system gives you will be more so on the easier difficulties. Therefore, you don't have to be right on the pitch, at least close.

Yeah probably like karaoke revolution and such. It can probably detect even minute changes of pitch and will give you more slack on easier levels... si?

[Bakkster_Man]

Yeah probably like karaoke revolution and such. It can probably detect even minute changes of pitch and will give you more slack on easier levels... si?

I doubt they would change the basic mechanics of karaoke revolution, just like they haven't changed to core mechanics of GH.

[rocker93]

im hoping they take kereoke to a whole new level.tho ive never played kereoke revolution and i never will cuz ill feel like a pansy but in rockband i will sing and i will rock my face off.im excited

[MrGlass214]

Since this game will be detecting pitch and words, there could be two difficulty levels:

1. This level could just focus on what words you're saying at the right time, and not on your pitch.

2. This one could focus on words and pitch.

There should be more levels, but this is the gist of what I think it should be like.

[devo193]

In the Gamespot video, all of the singers were on Easy, they sounded horribly off-key, and stayed at the top of the Rock Bar the whole time.

My guess is on Easy you just have to sing right and on Expert you have to have near-perfect pitch.

[Eman311]

On easy, just say the right words.

On expert, also have the right changes in pitch etc. Sing the song as closely as possible to the original

[KingColon]

This could be quite problematic for those that sing with a manly bear roar.


Manly as hell.

[Tazeyo]

I read that the developers have made that there will be variation depending on your voice or something. It will allow you to sound like yourself and not like Mickey Mouse while singing AC/DC for example.

[KingColon]

I read that the developers have made that there will be variation depending on your voice or something. It will allow you to sound like yourself and not like Mickey Mouse while singing AC/DC for example.

Yeah, so did I. I'm just questioning the mic's ability to determine the pitch of a low roar.

[TwinJedi]

A thought would be to remove the Lyrics or Pitch settings on screen for Higher difficulty settings.

[dragula]

I wasn't too familiar with Karaoke Revolution, but I think as a pitch meter, you can have the correct pitch yet be on a different octave. Like a high-pitched vocal song, you can drop down an octave and still be ok singing, as long as the pitch stays correct. I'm assuming RB will have a very similar setup.

[Anteraan]

I wasn't too familiar with Karaoke Revolution, but I think as a pitch meter, you can have the correct pitch yet be on a different octave. Like a high-pitched vocal song, you can drop down an octave and still be ok singing, as long as the pitch stays correct. I'm assuming RB will have a very similar setup.

This was indeed the case on Karaoke Revolution. One of my co-workers had us all laughing our asses off one night. He sings everything about 4 octaves lower than most human beings, so pretty much every song came out as a "Crash Test Dummies meets Marvin ***e" remix, but his pitch control was good, so he scored well. :p

[Sabre2552]

I wasn't too familiar with Karaoke Revolution, but I think as a pitch meter, you can have the correct pitch yet be on a different octave. Like a high-pitched vocal song, you can drop down an octave and still be ok singing, as long as the pitch stays correct. I'm assuming RB will have a very similar setup.

I hope so, because my voice is low and I can't sing the notes in the same octave that normal people can without my voice cracking (my voice is still changing). Though, I don't really like singing anymore that much, but it would still be nice to try it out every once and a while.

[Kang_Zircon]

I've played both Karaoke Revolution and Singstar and the mechanics are pretty much exactly the same:

1. Scoring is based on matching both syllables and pitch. Words are irrelevant, you could hum, sing the Wierd Al version, maake armpit noises, etc. as long as it's in pitch and in time.

2. The higher the difficulty, the more precise your pitch and/or timing has to be to "hit" a note and have it scored.

3. You can go above or below one or two octaves of the original singer and it will still count - I sing some songs really low too. You can even change octaves in the middle of a song if one part is too high for you while the rest is in your range.

4. The max score for every song and every difficulty of every song is always the same. 50,000 for KR and 2000 for Singstar.

Scoring is the only thing that will probably be different for RB seeing as the length of a song & number of notes impacts the max score for guitar and I'm assuming drums. But I suspect the same max score will apply to every difficulty, unless they do something with the freestyle parts on different difficulties or possibly don't make you hold some of the really long notes as long in easier levels???

If there's any other questions I'd be happy to share what I know.

[dlisapussy]

This was indeed the case on Karaoke Revolution. One of my co-workers had us all laughing our asses off one night. He sings everything about 4 octaves lower than most human beings, so pretty much every song came out as a "Crash Test Dummies meets Marvin ***e" remix, but his pitch control was good, so he scored well. :p

Yea, its all about the note you sing not the octave. The octave thing could be a hard - expert thing



one other thing



WHY THE **** DID THEY BLEEP OUT MARVIN'S LAST NAME hahha

[dlisapussy]

How does this sound?

Easy - Nothing really matters.
Medium - Timing matters.
Hard - Pitch matters.
Expert - Octave matters.

I think its reasonable except for easy, but i have no idea how they might pull this one off.

Harmonix will do the right thing.

[Bakkster_Man]

How does this sound?

Easy - Nothing really matters.
Medium - Timing matters.
Hard - Pitch matters.
Expert - Octave matters.

I think its reasonable except for easy, but i have no idea how they might pull this one off.

Harmonix will do the right thing.

I don't think they will make octave matter. Otherwise it would be basically impossible to pass all songs on expert (can you sing like both Geddy Lee and Marvin ***e?) I also hope that they don't start turning off detections. I'd rather they keep it like KR or Singstar where lower difficulties give you more freedom to be off (Expert, have to be within 10% of pitch, 1/8 beat -> easy within 2 whole steps and 1 beat). Otherwise all those cool features they put into singing get thrown out the window.

[sporkBrigade]

I've played both Karaoke Revolution and Singstar and the mechanics are pretty much exactly the same:

1. Scoring is based on matching both syllables and pitch. Words are irrelevant, you could hum, sing the Wierd Al version, maake armpit noises, etc. as long as it's in pitch and in time.

2. The higher the difficulty, the more precise your pitch and/or timing has to be to "hit" a note and have it scored.

3. You can go above or below one or two octaves of the original singer and it will still count - I sing some songs really low too. You can even change octaves in the middle of a song if one part is too high for you while the rest is in your range.

4. The max score for every song and every difficulty of every song is always the same. 50,000 for KR and 2000 for Singstar.

Scoring is the only thing that will probably be different for RB seeing as the length of a song & number of notes impacts the max score for guitar and I'm assuming drums. But I suspect the same max score will apply to every difficulty, unless they do something with the freestyle parts on different difficulties or possibly don't make you hold some of the really long notes as long in easier levels???

If there's any other questions I'd be happy to share what I know.

To add to this, though, Rock Band is confirmed to have a phoneme detector, so that's definitely going to be a new twist. I've hummed my way through a KR song or two, but this won't be possible in RB. This will definitely up the challenge factor. Of course, the extra difficulty of having to nail the words is balanced against the complete lack of Mo Town... o.O

[Kang_Zircon]

To add to this, though, Rock Band is confirmed to have a phoneme detector...

Hopefully they'll only use this for actual lyrics. I plan on trying to play guitar and sing at the same time and I don't want to figure out how to whack the mic in the middle of a solo to match that sound for any tamborine stuff.

P.S. I originally thought you wrote phenome detector and had a mental image of myself using the mic to track ghosts or something.

[dlisapussy]

I don't think they will make octave matter. Otherwise it would be basically impossible to pass all songs on expert (can you sing like both Geddy Lee and Marvin ***e?) I also hope that they don't start turning off detections. I'd rather they keep it like KR or Singstar where lower difficulties give you more freedom to be off (Expert, have to be within 10% of pitch, 1/8 beat -> easy within 2 whole steps and 1 beat). Otherwise all those cool features they put into singing get thrown out the window.


That's like saying

I don't think hitting the correct drum at the correct time will matter. Can you play drums like Neil Peart or John Bonham?

Neil Peart (and hopefully John Bonham) are going to be on RB. If you can't drum like Neil Peart, than you can't pass that song on expert. Plus, making the drums like that will help you be able to play drums. So, what I'm trying to say is, if the octave matters, (which I think it should) it can help anyone learn to sing.


Some peoples voices really can't go that deep or that high, so maybe there can be an octave change option. Highly unlikely for Rock Band, but its not impossible for RBII

[sporkBrigade]

That's like saying

I don't think hitting the correct drum at the correct time will matter. Can you play drums like Neil Peart or John Bonham?

Neil Peart (and hopefully John Bonham) are going to be on RB. If you can't drum like Neil Peart, than you can't pass that song on expert. Plus, making the drums like that will help you be able to play drums. So, what I'm trying to say is, if the octave matters, (which I think it should) it can help anyone learn to sing.


Some peoples voices really can't go that deep or that high, so maybe there can be an octave change option. Highly unlikely for Rock Band, but its not impossible for RBII


Actually, it's not the same thing at all. You should really pick up SingStar or Karaoke Revolution. I know octaves seem like just a skill thing, but skill has less to do with your vocal range then you seem to believe. What you quickly learn is that your voice simply has a range, and you can't go outside of that range. It's not skill, it's not ability, it's simply what you are physically capable of. This game is going to have a wide range of vocal ranges, and no one person (With very few exceptions) will physically be able to hit every note across all artists and songs.

Now of course many singers are famous for great ranges, but it's not a required skill of the trade. Barry White is an AMAZING singer, but do you think he could ever sing in the range for an Aerosmith song? Or the Beegees? (God I hope they never make a Rockband apperance...)

In the end it really comes down to this. Deep voiced men can't sing high, and most woman can't sing like deep voiced men. This game is for everyone, so an octave requirement would just be limiting and frustrating to the player. Besides, it's already confirmed that you can change octaves all you want, just like Karaoke Revolution and SingStar. I doubt this will never change, and in my opinion that's the way it should stay.

[dlisapussy]

Yea, I realized that after I posted it. Its not skill at all, I wasn't really thinking straight, its just how your voice is. All you need to do is hit the right note. So you can change the octave to the same octave as the real song, lower, or higher? Didn't know that.

What about **** like singing songs with more than one octave. 50% (not a fact) of songs have singing thats all over the board, its not all in one octave. Does that mean that you can just sing the right note, for example - Your singing the A note, then the D note, then the A note one octave up shows up. Would you have to sing an octave up or can you cheat your way out of it by singing the lower A? That's really what I was trying to say by the right octave. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

[Bakkster_Man]

To add to this, though, Rock Band is confirmed to have a phoneme detector, so that's definitely going to be a new twist. I've hummed my way through a KR song or two, but this won't be possible in RB. This will definitely up the challenge factor. Of course, the extra difficulty of having to nail the words is balanced against the complete lack of Mo Town... o.O

Honestly, I'm hoping for some MoTown. Get to play some of the best bass lines ever from James Jamerson.

Hear me HMX? Motown DLC :cool:

[sporkBrigade]

Yea, I realized that after I posted it. Its not skill at all, I wasn't really thinking straight, its just how your voice is. All you need to do is hit the right note. So you can change the octave to the same octave as the real song, lower, or higher? Didn't know that.

What about **** like singing songs with more than one octave. 50% (not a fact) of songs have singing thats all over the board, its not all in one octave. Does that mean that you can just sing the right note, for example - Your singing the A note, then the D note, then the A note one octave up shows up. Would you have to sing an octave up or can you cheat your way out of it by singing the lower A? That's really what I was trying to say by the right octave. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

You are correct. Even within the same song, you can switch up the octaves as much as you want/are able. The reason I believe in this though is that you'll find there are a lot of singers who are right at the edge of your personal vocal range. For example, Take On Me on Karaoke Revolution is just on the edge of my low range. But then it also goes really high as well during the chorus. It's impossible for me to hit the lowest notes in this song, and if I was locked into the higher octave for the whole song, it would be just as impossible to hit the really high notes. (Listen to the song sometime, you'll hear the high note I'm talking about during the chorus. Just imagining trying to hit it another octave up makes my man package want to shrivel up and die.)

Also, changing octaves isn't easy. In some ways, trying to stay in tune while changing octaves is a whole challenge within itself, and really shouldn't be seen as a negative.

[Eastwood]

I would love for octave to matter on Expert. I would also love to sing Master Exploder by Tenacious D on expert with the octave in play. Playing the game with friends + at a party + alcohol + aforementioned idea = hilarious good time

[Bakkster_Man]

I would love for octave to matter on Expert.

I think that would make it impossible to sing every song on expert, though.

Maybe as an extra difficulty option/cheat code?

[Eastwood]

I just figured that it would keep with the whole "you could play it real life if you could play it on expert" idea. While singing is, in part, god given talent, it is also a lot of training. Mariah Carey can sing in tune in 8 different octaves and she got that way by training and practice. Therefore, if you used widely known voice training that you could look up online, it would be possible to sing in the correct octave. So I will challenge any person to a vocal dual online release day if octave is included... and I am a guitarist, in no way a singer.

[sporkBrigade]

I just figured that it would keep with the whole "you could play it real life if you could play it on expert" idea. While singing is, in part, god given talent, it is also a lot of training. Mariah Carey can sing in tune in 8 different octaves and she got that way by training and practice. Therefore, if you used widely known voice training that you could look up online, it would be possible to sing in the correct octave. So I will challenge any person to a vocal dual online release day if octave is included... and I am a guitarist, in no way a singer.

Mariah Carey is an exception to the general rule, not the rule. Her vocal range is absolutely mind boggling, and absolutely impossible for the vast majority of us humans to reproduce. That's exactly why octaves shouldn't matter. Now, god forbid Mariah Carey ever be put into Rock Band, but if she was, and octaves mattered, her songs would be impossible for men to reproduce. Not hard, not really really really hard, but impossible. You can't train yourself to reproduce her range, you can't physically do it.

Now, for the "You could play it real life if you could play it on expert" concept, I think you're pulling that from the many quotes about the drum game. That's actually a bit of a misquote. No one is claiming that if you can finish Won't Get Fooled Again on expert mode that you could sit down at Keith Moon's drum set with his half a dozen toms and reproduce it. They're just saying that if you can master that song, you probably know how to play the drums. Not hard drums. Not Keith Moon insane drums. Just that you could sit down, hit a high hat and the snare, and not sound like a douche. It's the same with the singing. You're not required to show a Mariah Carey like vocal range just to complete songs on expert. You just have to know how to sing very well, and octaves have nothing to do with that.

Again, for everyone pushing for this octave thing, I really strongly suggest you just go pick up Singstar or Karaoke Revolution. It really sinks in when you try to sing a song by one artist, then try to sing a song from another artist, and suddenly you realize how completely different each person's range is, and mimicking all of them perfectly is just crazy talk.

[Bakkster_Man]

^ Thank you sporkBrigade

[dlisapussy]

If you can change the octave, then you can make the octave the same as the real song. So, I'm guessing that means that for people like me and eastwood, we can actually have the same octave as the song. Unless it really is out of my range. The only reason I wanted the octave to matter on expert is because I kind of have a wide range and I thought it would separate the good from the OK. That was selfish though and I realize some songs would be impossible, even for me. But now that I know you can change the octave, you can make it the same as it originally would be in the song, so that for some songs, the octave will matter.

[sporkBrigade]

If you can change the octave, then you can make the octave the same as the real song. So, I'm guessing that means that for people like me and eastwood, we can actually have the same octave as the song. Unless it really is out of my range. The only reason I wanted the octave to matter on expert is because I kind of have a wide range and I thought it would separate the good from the OK. That was selfish though and I realize some songs would be impossible, even for me. But now that I know you can change the octave, you can make it the same as it originally would be in the song, so that for some songs, the octave will matter.

I totally see what you mean. If you have a multi octave range, then you should totally be showing that **** off. Also, I invite to to join my band. :D

Fact is, you can nail the "game" part of this and still be a bad singer. I know a lot of people who can sing in tune perfectly, but still sound like rubbish. There's no way for the game to give you more points for some of the more obscure aspects of singing and still be fair. Octaves are just one factor we're talking about, but what about passion. What about conveying emotion with the way you sing, not just the note you're singing. Those skills have nothing to do with the game, but especially in an online community, those are the skills that are going to make you an in demand vocalist.

[Eastwood]

And I agree with your rebutle on Mariah Carey. I would be scared of any man who could reproduce her sound. I think a perfect middle ground for it would be having it as an extra option and not including it in the official gameplay. Have as an option just for fun or for a bit of competition filter. Make it to where the people that think they have the pipes easier to find each other online via filter.

[sporkBrigade]

And I agree with your rebutle on Mariah Carey. I would be scared of any man who could reproduce her sound. I think a perfect middle ground for it would be having it as an extra option and not including it in the official gameplay. Have as an option just for fun or for a bit of competition filter. Make it to where the people that think they have the pipes easier to find each other online via filter.

I actually like that idea. Kind of like regular Face Off vs. Pro Face Off in GH2. A slightly different take on the game mode just to make it that much harder for competition.

[johnyringo04]

ive heard that for singing it will not grade you on your pitch at all because of the so many untalented singers that will buy this game. but i would love for it to grade you on pitch and timing of words.

[karlkaza]

I think it matters about the pitch mostly.
betwween difficultys

[Bakkster_Man]

ive heard that for singing it will not grade you on your pitch at all because of the so many untalented singers that will buy this game. but i would love for it to grade you on pitch and timing of words.

If that's true, it's a MAJOR departure from Karaoke Revolution, which just got more lenient. I HIGHLY doubt this is true, except for maybe on easy.

[IrisKandi]

I really hope that on Expert the game will separate the men from the boys, so to speak. I am a vocalist by nature. I have been singing since I could talk and have near perfect pitch so I want to be challenged by this game. I want it to tell me when I am a little off. I want to be pushed harder on Expert than I would push myself. As for octaves, I don't know how I feel about it. Being a girl, there are some low notes that I can't get out clearly, while I can belt out almost ANY high note. Think Maria Carey on a good day.

All I can say is that I want a challenge. I want to see myself on top of the leaderboards and know that I have accomplished something.

[Eastwood]

I guess in your case it would be the women from the girls... I would also like to see the people online playing on expert. I enjoy watching people who think they can sing but can't... But, at the same time despise American Idol... weird...