Drumming speed, actual amount of strokes.

[parastroke7]

Yeah, I know. Drum this, drum that. It's like it's all I care about...probobly because it is.

Anyhow, the question today concerns the speed of drum rolls. Are they going to dumb it down, or leave it as is on Expert? Think of it like playing a GH song on easy. In stead of strumming 4 times, you strum 2 times. Well, say if there is a 32nd note roll, are they going to dumb it down and make you do only a portion of the strokes required?

Not that any of you know for sure, but what are you all guessing?

[Desensitized]

They'll probably do what Konami did on Drummania and do it exactly as is.

[lithiumkc]

Yeah, I know. Drum this, drum that. It's like it's all I care about...probobly because it is.

Anyhow, the question today concerns the speed of drum rolls. Are they going to dumb it down, or leave it as is on Expert? Think of it like playing a GH song on easy. In stead of strumming 4 times, you strum 2 times. Well, say if there is a 32nd note roll, are they going to dumb it down and make you do only a portion of the strokes required?

Not that any of you know for sure, but what are you all guessing?

Every beat will be represented in expert cept double bass imo.

[Ferretwave]

Yeah this is a question I had too. Drums can get pretty damn fast, if this is true it'd be awesome because you would really learn the drums but also would be a little offputting to the less dedicated, as you'd really have to be good at an instrument to play it.

[Maposaurus]

I doubt that every single stroke will be represented in Expert.

The game isn't a drum simulator, it's designed to be a game. A video game at that. It's supposed to be something that's fun and accessable.

Now, as a fellow drummer, of course I think that complex patterns and fast paced rudiments are fun, but do you really think that Joe Schmoe will agree with me? Hell naw. At most, I see this game teaching some basic to intermediate rudiments and building on that. I wouldn't get this game and expect it to be a replacement for real drumming.

[Archem]

I hope that they get it down to exactly (or as close to exactly as possible) in time and quantity with the real thing at expert level. I used to play drums (I really want to get back into it, that was fun stuff), so I know for a fact that slow stuff won't fly, and it won't be fun enough.

[ianian]

i hope they will
but what i wanna know is how there ganna imitate the bands with those huge drum sets

[lithiumkc]

I doubt that every single stroke will be represented in Expert.

The game isn't a drum simulator, it's designed to be a game. A video game at that. It's supposed to be something that's fun and accessable.

Now, as a fellow drummer, of course I think that complex patterns and fast paced rudiments are fun, but do you really think that Joe Schmoe will agree with me? Hell naw. At most, I see this game teaching some basic to intermediate rudiments and building on that. I wouldn't get this game and expect it to be a replacement for real drumming.

Do you think the average joe schmoe can do expert on guitar hero? Medium and Hard mode will be for missing beats. Expert, if GH is any indication, will be the actual song [laid out on 4 pads as best as possible] less double bass kicks. Hard mode will be for joe schmoe to work for just like it is in GH.

[Maposaurus]

Do you think the average joe schmoe can do expert on guitar hero? Medium and Hard mode will be for missing beats. Expert, if GH is any indication, will be the actual song [laid out on 4 pads as best as possible] less double bass kicks. Hard mode will be for joe schmoe to work for just like it is in GH.

Are you saying that Expert on GH is akin to playing a real guitar? If so, you are sadly, sadly mistaken.

[espher]

Are you saying that Expert on GH is akin to playing a real guitar? If so, you are sadly, sadly mistaken.

With all due respect, I think you completely missed the point he was making.

What he's saying is Expert on GH essentially has every note mapped to something, and that should be the case for Expert in RB for all instruments. I certainly agree with that.

I have friends who have a heck of a good time playing GH on Medium/Hard and are perfectly content with it. Expert should be for just that - experts.

[admanimal]

Are you saying that Expert on GH is akin to playing a real guitar? If so, you are sadly, sadly mistaken.

I think he is saying they don't skip notes in Expert.

[JesusSilencio]

Are you saying that Expert on GH is akin to playing a real guitar? If so, you are sadly, sadly mistaken.

I don't think he's saying that, but you have to admit that the average joe shmoe (or whatever) can't play some of the harder expert songs on GH. Most of the solos I still can't nail down 100%.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what the OP's question was exactly. Do you mean double stroke rolls? Honestly, I don't think I've heard any rock songs that use double stroke rolls.

If you're talking about single stroke rolls, then they should definitely be played note for note. Just compare it to Miserlou or Six. Most people (myself included) can't strum that fast for that long.

If you're talking about double stroke rolls, I still think they should be played note for note. It would feel very wrong to not have it in there. Maybe they could have a tutorial for double stroke rolls....

[Maposaurus]

Doing prolonged rolls is a lot different from strumming out Misirlou. I think rolls should be like in Donkey Konga (did anyone play that?) where that you get more points the more times you hit the note. It would benefit players who are actually able to do the rolls, while not hindering people who can't play fast enough, but still encouraging them to get better.

[Ferretwave]

Yep, real guitar is ALOT harder than Guitar Hero on Expert, but drums should be pretty much the same in real-life vs. videogame.

[Maposaurus]

Also, having to implement tutorials for rudiments is EXACTLY what HMX wants to avoid with this game. For the last time, it isn't a drum simulator, and it shouldn't be treated as such.

Why would you want to limit such a potentially broad market? That's bad business.

[espher]

Also, having to implement tutorials for rudiments is EXACTLY what HMX wants to avoid with this game. For the last time, it isn't a drum simulator, and it shouldn't be treated as such.

Why would you want to limit such a potentially broad market? That's bad business.

Well, what's the point of having various difficulty levels, then, if we're trying to make it so that pretty much anyone can blow through Expert?

[JesusSilencio]

Doing prolonged rolls is a lot different from strumming out Misirlou. I think rolls should be like in Donkey Konga (did anyone play that?) where that you get more points the more times you hit the note. It would benefit players who are actually able to do the rolls, while not hindering people who can't play fast enough, but still encouraging them to get better.

Yeah, I played Donkey Konga too. It was actually a pretty fun game, it just needed a better setlist. But Donkey Konga was more of a silly/fun game, plus rolls on congas are done like they are in Donkey Konga. If you did a roll like that on a snare drum, it would sound like crap. I realize that RB is a game too, and people are supposed to have fun with it, but the people that just want to have fun with it could play on hard, where you play almost all the notes, except the really fast ones. People who want to play it note for note can play on expert.

To me, doing a prolonged roll is basically the same as misirlou, but I guess that's because I'm a drummer.

[JesusSilencio]

Also, having to implement tutorials for rudiments is EXACTLY what HMX wants to avoid with this game. For the last time, it isn't a drum simulator, and it shouldn't be treated as such.

Yeah, you're probably right with that one, but like I said, I don't think very many rock songs use double stroke rolls, so there probably won't be a need for that tutorial.

[Maposaurus]

I'm a drummer, and I honest to God wish I could have the game that you guys want.

But it ain't gonna happen, and I am content with the game we're most likely going to get.

[Flybird]

Yep, real guitar is ALOT harder than Guitar Hero on Expert, but drums should be pretty much the same in real-life vs. videogame.

Uh uh.

I think playing the real guitar is easier than play GH on Expert. That crap is hard.

I've been a drummer for 10 years, but i think playing the drums on RB will be quite difficult on Expert, since you're confined to 4 pads and a single kickpedal, with EVERY BEAT confined to one of the pads.

[parastroke7]

Well, what's the point of having various difficulty levels, then, if we're trying to make it so that pretty much anyone can blow through Expert?

Now you're talkin'. That's what I'm getting at. Expert mode should be for those who want the real deal.

With a guitar control with five buttons, and much fewer combinations than on a real guitar, you are limited and can't make the game like actual guitar playing. However, with a peripheral that will work exactly like playing drums, limitations like these are taken away and sky is the limit. So what if some people can't play on Expert because it's 'too much like real drumming'. They should either give up or learn how to do it. Keep in mind also that people can finish songs on Expert while in the red of the rock meter. Nailing a song and surviving it are two very different things. I nail a lot of songs on GH, while a lot of my friends can just barely survive them.

Say if there's a line of really fast single strokes. Joe Shmo will hit 10 or less out of all of those notes, much like a complex GH solo ( like people not being able to strum every note of Misirlou ). A real drummer may be able to hit 15 of those notes, or all of them if they have good timing and stick control. Just because people won't be able to play a drum part perfectly doesn't mean it's too hard for them, it just gives them some pretty big shoes to fill.

As the original quote says, I don't see why HMX would want people blowing the doors off of Expert mode like it's a joke, like it's a failure of a real challenge. The Expert difficulty should be nothing less than what can be performed by an Expert, or at least someone close to that. We'll leave the Hard, Medium, and Easy difficulties for those who just can't seem to make their way through the barrage of notes that come with pushing it balls to the wall.

[Dabog666]

I agree with the previous post.
It's called expert for a reason, y'know.

[Ferretwave]

Uh uh.

I think playing the real guitar is easier than play GH on Expert. That crap is hard.

I've been a drummer for 10 years, but i think playing the drums on RB will be quite difficult on Expert, since you're confined to 4 pads and a single kickpedal, with EVERY BEAT confined to one of the pads.
Well depends what tier obviously. I'm not talking about the ultra insane high level stuff. But still, I stand by that. Though its not my main instrument so I guess I haven't put as much time in as I could. Cool there are so many musicians here though.

[sa_nick]

From all the footage thats been released the drum rolls havnt been mapped at all. you make your own little sequence.

I dont know if we've seen any drumming on expert though. What was A-Rig playin' in all the stage demos at E3?

[Smidget]

Now you're talkin'. That's what I'm getting at. Expert mode should be for those who want the real deal.

With a guitar control with five buttons, and much fewer combinations than on a real guitar, you are limited and can't make the game like actual guitar playing. However, with a peripheral that will work exactly like playing drums, limitations like these are taken away and sky is the limit. So what if some people can't play on Expert because it's 'too much like real drumming'. They should either give up or learn how to do it. Keep in mind also that people can finish songs on Expert while in the red of the rock meter. Nailing a song and surviving it are two very different things. I nail a lot of songs on GH, while a lot of my friends can just barely survive them.

Say if there's a line of really fast single strokes. Joe Shmo will hit 10 or less out of all of those notes, much like a complex GH solo ( like people not being able to strum every note of Misirlou ). A real drummer may be able to hit 15 of those notes, or all of them if they have good timing and stick control. Just because people won't be able to play a drum part perfectly doesn't mean it's too hard for them, it just gives them some pretty big shoes to fill.

As the original quote says, I don't see why HMX would want people blowing the doors off of Expert mode like it's a joke, like it's a failure of a real challenge. The Expert difficulty should be nothing less than what can be performed by an Expert, or at least someone close to that. We'll leave the Hard, Medium, and Easy difficulties for those who just can't seem to make their way through the barrage of notes that come with pushing it balls to the wall.

Thank you. This shouldn't even be a discussion. "Also, having to implement tutorials for rudiments is EXACTLY what HMX wants to avoid with this game. For the last time, it isn't a drum simulator, and it shouldn't be treated as such."

Thats the thing, they won't have to implement tutorials. People are going to be so damn good at this game (*cough*hopefully me) that they'll be playing expert in a week and won't need any tutorials. As its already been said "We'll leave the Hard, Medium, and Easy difficulties for those who just can't seem to make their way through the barrage of notes that come with pushing it balls to the wall." If they don't make it hard as hell then people will stop playing it.

[Bakkster_Man]

I expect that the simplifications on the drums will be mostly hardware based. Like, assuming the drums couldn't register a flam (just pulling out of nowhere here), they would leave them out.

The other possibility is to make the "special" hits like HO/PO on guitar, optional. You could flam, or just hit twice really close (again, bad example), either will register.

Also, when you consider that even the real drummers at HMX have been having difficulties with drums on expert, it makes me think that yes, drums on expert will be note-for-note.

[vtjustinb]

Also, having to implement tutorials for rudiments is EXACTLY what HMX wants to avoid with this game. For the last time, it isn't a drum simulator, and it shouldn't be treated as such.

Why would you want to limit such a potentially broad market? That's bad business.

It's a midi pad. It doesn't care if you played it with paraddidles, or grandmas, or cheese dachudas, or whatever. It's just an input and and a velocity.

The real question isn't do they want you to play technically-demanding stuff, it's how sensitive the pads are and how they choose to make the song mappings on the hardest difficultly (notes-for-note or an abstraction of the part).

[bounchfx]

i really hope that its as close to note for note as it can handle on expert for drums. I want a challenge.

[Jsnkr9216]

Yep, real guitar is ALOT harder than Guitar Hero on Expert, but drums should be pretty much the same in real-life vs. videogame.

A lot of songs are easier in real life than on Expert Guitar Hero.

[bounchfx]

A lot of songs are easier in real life than on Expert Guitar Hero.

you must really suck at expert and be great at guitar for that to be true

[Bakkster_Man]

A lot of songs are easier in real life than on Expert Guitar Hero.


you must really suck at expert and be great at guitar for that to be true

No, there were some songs where playing the barre-chords was easy, but pushing button-chord combinations was harder.

For the solos, though, GH was almost always easier.

[parastroke7]

Thank you. This shouldn't even be a discussion. "Also, having to implement tutorials for rudiments is EXACTLY what HMX wants to avoid with this game. For the last time, it isn't a drum simulator, and it shouldn't be treated as such."

Thats the thing, they won't have to implement tutorials. People are going to be so damn good at this game (*cough*hopefully me) that they'll be playing expert in a week and won't need any tutorials. As its already been said "We'll leave the Hard, Medium, and Easy difficulties for those who just can't seem to make their way through the barrage of notes that come with pushing it balls to the wall." If they don't make it hard as hell then people will stop playing it.

I know I'll stop playing it if it doesn't demand a lot of skill. I'm getting it mainly for the drumming portion, and also for the guitar portion.

Also, sa-nick made a good point. I think for rolls, all of the bars on the screen turn their respective colors, indicating that it's time to pound a bunch of stuff for points. Sorta like the "ending bonus" that RB is bringing to the table. The ending bonus and general rolls throughout the game may work exactly alike.

[Flybird]

you must really suck at expert and be great at guitar for that to be true

Well, I'm not a god at GH by any means, but I'm pretty decent. I can play on Expert, but I find it really really hard on some songs.

BUT I can play the majority of songs that are on GH on the guitar really well(Not perfectly, but you can recognize the song instantly).

Maybe because I've been playing guitar for 6 years and been playing GH on and off for 2 years(I never really owned the game), so what I just said is biased.

[Angellore]

I dont play guitar, and am not musically inclined, yet I can play Guitar Hero on expert....

[cakefoo]

From all the footage thats been released the drum rolls havnt been mapped at all. you make your own little sequence.

I dont know if we've seen any drumming on expert though. What was A-Rig playin' in all the stage demos at E3?
In the gamespot video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjrhM1Nh7PI) it wasn't clear every song Alex played, but 20 minutes in, when they were picking a new song, he was highlighting Hard for a few seconds before the camera cut to a new angle- but you could tell on the very next angle that he didn't pick Expert, because the player on the right picked Expert, and the yellow text that says their difficulty was longer than the text in the drummer's box (player #2). /nerdiness

[parastroke7]

In the gamespot video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjrhM1Nh7PI) it wasn't clear every song Alex played, but 20 minutes in, when they were picking a new song, he was highlighting Hard for a few seconds before the camera cut to a new angle- but you could tell on the very next angle that he didn't pick Expert, because the player on the right picked Expert, and the yellow text that says their difficulty was longer than the text in the drummer's box (player #2). /nerdiness

I did notice that Alex was playing on Hard, rather than Expert. If hard looks like that, then I wonder what Expert will look like? Who knows.

[bounchfx]

I've been playing guitar for about 5-6 years as well, and GH since it came out.. I don't really learn songs on guitar but from hearing most stuff, even if i took the time to learn a lot of the songs on guitar I still wouldn't think they were any easier on guitar than GH. but that all depends on how you play each, obviously.

this post seems kind of pointless to me now that I think about it.

[JesusSilencio]

I did notice that Alex was playing on Hard, rather than Expert. If hard looks like that, then I wonder what Expert will look like? Who knows.

Yeah, I was wondering that too. But I listened to Suffragatte City again, and I think the drums didn't have all of the bass drum hits mapped in. It's kinda hard to tell, because the bass drum is kinda hard to hear.

[parastroke7]

Yeah, I was wondering that too. But I listened to Suffragatte City again, and I think the drums didn't have all of the bass drum hits mapped in. It's kinda hard to tell, because the bass drum is kinda hard to hear.

har har har. I feel ya. I didn't play close enough attention to the amount of bass drum hits, mainly because the bass drum IS very difficult to hear. It sounds like the drummer of that recording had a bass pedal attached to a cardboard box with a blanket in it.

[fried_blowney]

If it's not a challenge I'll be disappointed.

[Dizthedrummer]

I've played 5 or 6 of the songs on Expert now, and the ones I've played have been pretty much identical to what it would be playing on a real set cept for only with 4 pads and a kick. I think it's about as close as you can get to doing it in real life with a real kit. That's pretty cool for a video game.

I don't know how many of you have seen the old school digital drum sets, but the drums themselves looked a lot like these in the early days of them.

I would say the big difference between the game and real life is where you would hit the drum\symbol and how hard you can hit it to produce different sounds. If you hit the pad anywhere in Rockband you're gonna make the sound you want to hear. Not the case with a real kit.

I still love this game though. I was a drummer in a band for years till I quit to get married and this is almost as fun as that was. I'm still waiting for someone to perfect a real kick-pedal though.

[o0MeTaL0o]

Dude, This thread was from July... WTF!

Why dig up a thread so damn old.