Advancing to Hard/Expert

[NoD]

I seem to be maxing my skills at medium level but find hard/expert way to difficult. I can get 93% - 100% on medium but only complete 4 songs on hard. What do use as the best way to practice:

Practice Song at slower rates?
Practice Song one stage at a time at full speed, add stages you go?
Just do the song in quick play over and over and fail until you get?

[ryank285]

It helps to actually know the song. Like Metallica songs, for most people, it would be really difficult but I know the songs like the back of my hand because I have been listening to them for over 10 years. So, they are easier to play for me because I know when the notes will be coming up. I haven't attempted it yet but I would imagine I suck at Iron Maiden "Run to the Hills" since I am not familiar with their music. Never cared for them so...
Long story short, get familiar with the songs so you can anticipate when the notes will be coming at you.

[preOwned]

This is a difficult and frustrating advancement, but I just played the song on the tour until I passed it. I would not do quick play b/c if you do that and pass it you will not get credit.

[topperharley]

Well, right now I'm just plowing through hard (guitar) to get through it and get the achievement, so I'm not worried about percentages or stars or score at this point - just surviving. :p

But, once I do that, I'll go back and redo the songs that gave me trouble, and do what I did when I failed out of songs on drums - figure out the sections that trip me up, and practice those sections until I'm comfortable with them. Usually I'm okay with most of the song, but there'll be a certain section or two that just don't come naturally.

I usually practice them at full speed, just because it makes the transition to the full song easier, but if I'm really flummoxed, I'll slow it down.

[Ventura]

I've suffered from much the same problem with all of these types of games, particularly on guitar. You start on easy, and it's all good. Progress to medium, and it's all good. Bump it up to hard and it feels like mission impossible.

The thing is, up till medium, both Rock Band and Guitar Hero are relatively pleasurable experiences. They don't have you working too hard. That's when the difficulty really jumps a notch, however, to the point where you'll find yourself getting stuck a lot more than you ever were before.

I tend to get somewhat frustrated when I get to a song I can't beat (Run to the Hills hard drums, I'm looking at you), so I make my progress by taking a break from it. I'll either play other songs on the same difficulty, tougher songs on the lower difficulty, or (in the case of the aforementioned RTTH) play easier songs on the higher difficulty. It depends on the particular song, however... if I'm confident I can beat it, I'll go back for another crack or two the following night.

Some people swear by the practice mode. Good for them. But if you ask me, nothing bores quite like slowing a song down. I'm sure it works though, and each to their own, but I prefer to come and go, taking pot shots at it until I finally take it out.

Whatever you do, don't stop playing.

[topperharley]

Some people swear by the practice mode. Good for them. But if you ask me, nothing bores quite like slowing a song down.

:eek: that's what Rock Band needs: rehearsal mode! your rocker(s) in one of a few generic practice spaces, playing a song, or parts of a song, with no audience and no failing out

it would make practice mode a lot more fun :)

[surgesnugs]

I think one of the major steps you have to take is getting comfortable moving your hand to cover 5 buttons instead of just 4. Once you can do that comfortably, alot of the difficulty goes away. Beyond that, I've sometimes found that slowing a song down can help you discern the HO/PO's better, and also help decide the best fingering strategy for certain sections. Also, if you hit a roadblock on Hard, try going up to Expert, so you can continue to progress a little. I found many of the early Expert songs are easier than the later Hard songs. Most of this is due to the last tier of songs mostly being about difficult solos. For the solos, the best advice I would give is to just practice those sections in practice mode. Most of them are about HO/PO's, so it will also give you good general practice in handling those.

[The Squeaky Wheel]

I found the jump from medium to hard was more difficult than the jump from hard to expert.

Hard introduces the orange button which is a killer after getting comfortable with only the 4 buttons on medium. I would have preferred orange button and more chords to have been gradually introduced to the harder medium songs.

Expert is fast, introduces 3 note chords and has lots of hammer ons/pull offs. But I found the last set of hard songs to be harder than many of the early to mid songs on Expert (early to mid referring to the venues when playing solo tour).

My advice: keep practicing. You'll get it.

[MusePT]

This is exactly what happens to me :(

[Kenfucious]

:eek: that's what Rock Band needs: rehearsal mode! your rocker(s) in one of a few generic practice spaces, playing a song, or parts of a song, with no audience and no failing out

it would make practice mode a lot more fun :)

now THAT is a great idea. kinda a customizable practice space in general.
.. even take it a step further, let the practicing band control their space however they want..
like see how they'd hold up to audience reaction without falling off of the song if they "fail".. etc.
with/without audience reaction tracks..

hmm.. even, perhaps, like a "backyard" venue for practice or something? could be fun.. heh.

Anyway.. aside from that.. I've heard it called "plateau-ing", where your abilities catch up to your natural potential.. it just means playing a little more to achieve the same results.

Remember.. this IS still a game.. ;) if you start seeing it as working at it, imho, it defeats the purpose, you know?

[NoD]

All great info, thanks:

I think it mostly moving my fingers so I'm prepare to switch to that 5th Orange button. I'm switching when orange come up but in some cases it looks like I should switch before to be prepared. Sometime I do better when I start with 1st finger on red and move when green comes. mostly it just freaking out about the rate the notes fly at you.

[ManOwaR]

I've put this in other posts like this.

Stop for a minute. Learn to play with fingers "one note down". This is the easiest way to get your brain wrapped around the new pace and new use of the "bottom" note on your guitar.

What I did to get from a medium junky to a top 1000 guitarist (I know who cares)..

Play a few easy songs with just your pointy and bird fingers. Play with your middle finger on the middle button and slide up when necessary. This will get your brain to say "MY POINTY FINGER GETS TWO BUTTONS AND NEEDS TO SLIDE MOST" because if you just had been playing medium tons your brain says "MY FINGERS ARE LOCKED ON THE TOP 4 BUTTONS and my PINKY needs to do two notes."

You don't want your pinky doing two notes, it's your dumbest finger. So in essence your learning to slide with an emphasis on your pointy finger doing more work.

It worked for me. good luck.

[ryank285]

I've put this in other posts like this.

Stop for a minute. Learn to play with fingers "one note down". This is the easiest way to get your brain wrapped around the new pace and new use of the "bottom" note on your guitar.

What I did to get from a medium junky to a top 1000 guitarist (I know who cares)..

Play a few easy songs with just your pointy and bird fingers. Play with your middle finger on the middle button and slide up when necessary. This will get your brain to say "MY POINTY FINGER GETS TWO BUTTONS AND NEEDS TO SLIDE MOST" because if you just had been playing medium tons your brain says "MY FINGERS ARE LOCKED ON THE TOP 4 BUTTONS and my PINKY needs to do two notes."

You don't want your pinky doing two notes, it's your dumbest finger. So in essence your learning to slide with an emphasis on your pointy finger doing more work.

It worked for me. good luck.

I am sorry, that made me laugh. Never heard anyone call a finger "dumb".

[surgesnugs]

I've put this in other posts like this.

Stop for a minute. Learn to play with fingers "one note down". This is the easiest way to get your brain wrapped around the new pace and new use of the "bottom" note on your guitar.

What I did to get from a medium junky to a top 1000 guitarist (I know who cares)..

Play a few easy songs with just your pointy and bird fingers. Play with your middle finger on the middle button and slide up when necessary. This will get your brain to say "MY POINTY FINGER GETS TWO BUTTONS AND NEEDS TO SLIDE MOST" because if you just had been playing medium tons your brain says "MY FINGERS ARE LOCKED ON THE TOP 4 BUTTONS and my PINKY needs to do two notes."

You don't want your pinky doing two notes, it's your dumbest finger. So in essence your learning to slide with an emphasis on your pointy finger doing more work.

It worked for me. good luck.

I agree with this. Starting out, it helped to generally have each color assigned to a finger, so I locked the bottom three colors to my middle, ring, and pinky finger, and covered both red and green with my index. Obviously, with chords that use green you have to move your whole hand, but my default position would always be the bottom 4 notes, and I'd keep it there whenever possible.

Eventually, I worked things to the point where my brain can handle either hand position interchangeably, but starting out it was easier to just know yellow was my middle finger, blue was my ring finger, rather than having to think about it.

[hoss]

i have to say i had exactly the same problem...i nvr owned guitar hero or played guitar before so the whole thing was new to me...i got the game....smoked easy solo tour...struggled at first with medium but got it pretty quick then hit a wall with the hard solo tour. i jumped on these forums and read somewhere that someone had suggested starting with your index finger on red instead of green. (index = red, middle = yellow, ring = blue, pinky = orange) so i gave it a try.tried it for a few hours and i had gotten so used to starting on green that i would just keep missing notes cause my fingers were in a different place.

so i started over at the beginning of easy solo tour, then medium, then back to hard. this time i was starting on red instead of green. tryed the first 15 songs in hard and smoked them at 95 - 99 percent. woke up the next day and beat the rest of hard (though it was tough getting used to the ho/po parts)

had a friend with the same problem where he couldnt make the leap.had him do the same thing i did and now we both play at expert....


just a suggestion but worked for both me and my friend (who by the way nvr played guitar hero or a real guitar) it is alot easier to reach green with my index finger than it was orange for my pinky. when i have to hit both red and green i simply push both buttons with my index finger...

[Spandrel]

This is the hardest jump in the game, in all honesty. Be thankful that RB doesn't also throw 3-note chords at you in Hard, like they do in GH3. The key is learning how to mentally shift your finger-to-fret button assignment down a register. In "first register", they are mapped to GRYB, and then in "second register", you have to mentally be able to re-map your index to R, your middle to Y, your ring to B, and your pinky to the new O fret. In single notes, it isn't too hard, but learning the new chords takes some practice.

What you really have to do is learn when, in a song, you are in first and second register. There are a lot of ambiguous chords like RY, RB, and YB that can be played in either register. It is always important to know whether your are in first and will play RY with your middle and ring or in second and will play it with your index and middle. Keeping track of your hand position is the first step. This will take some time, but it will "click" with you at some point. It is a hump you just have to get over.

The easiest songs to help with the transition are those that allow you to rest in one register for longer periods of time. I remember in the first GH, "I Wanna' Be Sedated" was a great song to learn on, because the entire second verse was played the same as the first, but just in second register. I'm not sure which songs in RB let you "camp" in one position or the other for long periods of time, but those are the best songs. Just really work on remapping your fingers in your mind when playing. Soon, it will come naturally, and you'll be very happy with how much the 5th fret button adds to the game.

[upfromtheashes]

When I was learning to play Guitar Hero I ran into the same thing you guys are talking about. I was rocking it on medium, but then hard introduced the 5th button that necessitated shifting my hand up and down the neck, which at first would make my hand "get lost" and start missing every subsequent note until I regained my bearings.

I just kept at it and eventually you get more comfortable with the shifting. I've since beaten most GH and RB songs on expert.

My typical response to sticking points is to play other songs for a while. Vaseline on expert drums used to own me. I'm talking like fail at 20% pathetic. so I've just been playing other songs that I enjoy for the past week or so, and last night I gave Vaseline another try on solo tour and passed it first try. Yay.

[ManOwaR]

hehe, thanks for the comments up there, my pinky is a real dummy.

[Finster]

Tips: How to Practice without "Practicing"

I've been through the same on guitar and drums. You start getting the coordination and all of the sudden you hit a wall. Yes, practice mode is boring, but it's going to take practice. These are the things I do other than slowing everything down to 50% and repeating until bored.

• Go Back: Go back to easy and 5-star everything. All of the sudden those tough songs are a lot easier after spending time in medium.

• Go Forward: On drums I got stuck on GHHT on easy. I jumped up to Medium for a few sets, which was actually easier for me than the endurance fest that is GHHT. When I finally got back to it, I cruised right through.

• Go Crazy: RockBand does have Rehearsal Mode, it's called Practice Mode at 100%. About once a day, I play Won't Get Fooled Again on Expert at 100% in Practice Mode. I can't come close to playing it (actually only about 50% of the notes), but it can be hellafun on a song you like to just pound away. Plus everything seems a lot slower when you go back.

It's all about building up new muscles and coordination, and practice is the only way. But there are ways to practice without it seeming like practice.

[Frederf]

Basically keep trying. The funny thing is that you cannot prevent yourself from getting better, it's almost magic how you will just be able to do it over time.

One suggestion is that hard throws a new technique (hand shifting) and more/faster notes at you at the same time so don't tackle them both at once. Go play some of the more difficulty medium songs but don't use your pinky. This will allow you to practice the hand shift on songs that are already easier.

[mercuryshadow09]

Basically keep trying. The funny thing is that you cannot prevent yourself from getting better, it's almost magic how you will just be able to do it over time.

One suggestion is that hard throws a new technique (hand shifting) and more/faster notes at you at the same time so don't tackle them both at once. Go play some of the more difficulty medium songs but don't use your pinky. This will allow you to practice the hand shift on songs that are already easier.

I agree with this method this is how i did it just stop using your pinky!

[griffinmills]

I learned on GH2 xbox mostly so I'll try to reiterate tips that I think will apply.

Index on Red: This is a good tip IMO. You'll want to train your brain to play in both IoR and IoG (Index on Green) for Hard mode.

Replay: Another good tip for confidence building. Go back and 5 star everything on Easy and Medium, be amazed at how easy Medium has become. Once you can 5 star Medium you will likely be able to, or be close to able to, pass Hard.

Relax your standards: Hard is what it's named. Just be happy completing songs at all on Hard. I can't think of any good reason to 5 star everything on Hard, there are no unlockables or any such right?

Practice: In GH2 I reccomended that people transitioning to Hard go to Practice Mode and slow down the song Woman and learn the really fast BYRBYRYRG hopo's but I can't think of anything like that which shows up crazy early in RB early tiers. Learning those fast hopo's and "trills" (fast repeating and long sets of two colors like YRYRYRYRYR etc.) were roadblocks for a lot of folks in GH2.

3 note chords: The easy ones (GRY or RYB style) never challenged me but the split chords gave me trouble for a long time. I learned to do these with confidence on Cherub Rock in GH3 which is apparently 90 percent split chords in Activisions opinion. :p These are infrequent enough in RB Hard difficulty to just do your best when they show and learn them on the fly.

Reaching: I do plenty of reaching with my index and pinky fingers. Most people find reaching with their index finger a lot easier but it can be handy when playing IoG to pick up those 1 in 20 orange notes sometimes.

Mostly, learn the hand shifting and playing in IoG and IoR, relax, have fun and play. Give it time and practice. Playing on Medium on difficult songs is okay and can be good.

[krazyapple]

dude what instrument because i play expert guitar and bass hard for vocals medium on drums.

[liIxEdxIil]

I got lazy after reading the first page, anywho I notice it didn't say the instrument you were using which makes a huge difference. I am gonna guess guitar since that is the default.

I don't know if anyone remembers but for GH2 there was a forum that went in to great detail the hard to expert jump. Close to the same applies.

For guitar, hammer ons and pull offs become huge as well as your ability to quickly shift among the keys, be it quick strums, multi tab or just adding the 5th key. To me being able to figure out your fingering remains the most important. Most people I know who played expert or hard earlier on had issues adapting to the 5th key. My word of advice is find a good position be it 3 finger shift or four finger play. I move my pointer finger from red to green and shift as needed. From there practice hammer ons and pull offs or the quick adjustments. Both will be needed later on. Also your overcharge is your friend to pull your butt out of danger.

Singing - as we all know the pitch range gets smaller and smaller. My main is vocals and I sound horrible, but I can manage pitch range. Only advice if your going solo is to start to know the song and where to start singing at a comfortable pitch. Avoid fast pitch changes, cause your mic will jump on you. Also try humming and ooing for the start of the song then do it with words. It will give you a feeling for the vowel tones. As for spoken parts, lower sensitivity on the mic, speak clearly, and straight as possible.

Drums - Be prepared to think of each of your extremities as seperate parts. Like guitar with fingers you need to control your movements as much as possible while holding the rythem. What you hear isn't always what you should be doing. Drums is practice practice, knowing whats coming, quick on the drum rolls and being able to quickly change your movement from hand to foot etc. Also saving your overcharge will buy you some rest time, much needed on fast pace songs or heavy bass pedal. Try not to lose yourself on those breaks if need be and use it to pull up your fan bad.

Thats what I can think of hope it helps a little.

[LethalParadox28]

from a drumming perspective...don't keep playing the same song over and over. If you can't beat one..sure you can try it two or three times but if you keep failing out, go play different songs that you've already assured yourself that you can pass and sharpen your skills. Most people like to say that you have to separate your limbs on the drums but thats only half of it, IMO. You have to separate them and then also keep them in time with each other through the tempo of the song. Sounds fun, and it IS FUN! The hardest part to pick up is keeping time because no one ever really thinks about it since the notes are there in front of you. You HAVE to find that time and when you do..the songs become a LOT easier. What looks fast probably isn't as fast as you think it is(this still catches me on some notes) and drum rolls aren't as hard as they seem. Take the sticks..find a pillow, and just practice RLRLRL sticking in different increments. Once you can go fast at that, practice RRLRLLRL and then just add in variations. I guess drummers call them rudiments but you don't need to know all that..just working on getting the speed up and the cleanliness up(no hitting sticks, losing grip, so on and so forth). Before you know it, you'll be able to play a lot of the songs on expert. I have surprised myself in how much I've improved in the two months the game has been out.

[MusePT]

Many thanks to you guys... there are some excelent suggestions in here... one of the best topics I've ever seen! :)