The Most Important Loophole

[Ihmhi]

ESRB Notice: Game Experience May Change During Online Play

That is the most important loophole for what I am about to suggest.

Here is the second most important:




Xbox LIVE Family Settings

Family Settings perform two functions on the Xbox 360 console. When playing offline, they can be set to grant or restrict access to games based on the ESRB rating. When playing online, they can be used to restrict access to content and contacts based on the parent's choice. Xbox LIVE Family Settings set different levels of protection for online gameplay, online communications, and downloading member content or items from Xbox LIVE Marketplace.

Xbox LIVE Family Settings let you:

* Control access to all the features of Xbox LIVE.
* Set a pass code to protect your Family Settings.
* Decide what your kids will play, both online and off.
* Decide who your child can communicate with online.
* Control who can see your child's profile or friends list.

Link: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/familysettings/live/xbox360/xboxlivecontrols.htm



With that, I would like to suggest Uncensored songs.

There a lot of bands out there that would just suck to have radio edits released, hands down. I hate the prospect of the "take what you can get" approach with many games - most people would rather just have the content, even if it is censored and/or watered down. Most people don't have the, er, round bouncy rubber things that are a metaphor to ask - scratch that, fight - for something better. I am not most people. (Yes, I am aware of the irony of most people saying "I am not most people".)

Games (and game companies) often ignore some facts about gamers:




TOP 10 INDUSTRY FACTS

1. US computer and video game software sales grew six percent in 2007 to $9.5 billion – more than tripling industry software sales since 1996.

2. Sixty-seven percent of American heads of households play computer and video games.

3. The average game player is 33 years old and has been playing games for 12 years.

4. The average age of the most frequent game buyer is 38 years old. In 2007, 92 percent of computer game buyers and 80 percent of console game buyers were over the age of 18.

5. Eighty-five percent of all games sold in 2007 were rated "E" for Everyone, "T" for Teen, or "E10+" for Everyone 10+. For more information on ratings, please see www.esrb.org.

6. Eighty-six percent of game players under the age of 18 report that they get their parents’ permission when renting or buying games, and 91 percent say their parents are present when they buy games.

7. Thirty-six percent of American parents say they play computer and video games. Further, 80 percent of gamer parents say they play video games with their kids. Sixty-six percent feel that playing games has brought their families closer together.

8. Thirty-eight percent of all game players are women. In fact, women over the age of 18 represent a significantly greater portion of the game-playing population (31%) than boys age 17 or younger (20%).

9. In 2007, 24 percent of Americans over the age of 50 played video games, an increase from nine percent in 1999.


10. Forty-nine percent of game players say they play games online one or more hours per week. In addition, 34 percent of heads of households play games on a wireless device, such as a cell phone or PDA, up from 20 percent in 2002.

Link: http://www.theesa.com/facts/top_10_facts.php



The average gamer is 33 years old and has been playing for 12 years, and yet everyone is being very careful about "family friendliness".

From a corporate perspective, I can see how this makes sense. However, from a reality perspective, this makes less sense than ever. Here's the breakdown:


Xbox Live Content can and is rated seperately from the game

Next time you download something on live, take a look at the description. The content you are downloading is rated, along with special notes like "Strong Language" and such.


The Kiss of Death - an AO Rating

It just can't happen. Take a look at the qualifers for Teen, Mature, and Adults Only ratings:




TEEN
Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.

MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.

ADULTS ONLY
Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity.

Link: http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp


The most "Strong Language" will get you is a Mature Rating. There is just no way possible that you can get an AO rating for language.

Rock Band's rateable content for DLC falls under "song lyrics" and "character animations". So, unless Harmonix programs a drummer doing a line of coke off of his cymbals, or the ESRB considers that Van Halen guitar solo so sexy that it borderline pornographic and deserves an AO rating, it's just not happening.


A large portion of gamers are adults

As I have proven (and cited) many times so far, a large portion of gamers are adults. The average age of a gamer is 33. I am 22 myself, and I have been sick of people treating my hobby quite literally with kid gloves. I am sure that there are many of us out there who feel the same way.


Some of us just might make you more money

Concerned about the loss of sales on an uncensored song, Harmonix? Charge a USD$0.50 premium for uncensored songs to make up for the loss. I would pay for it, and I am sure a lot of gamers would as well.


Test it out - it can't hurt

It can't hurt to do a trial program. One uncensored song a week for four weeks, at a premium of USD$0.50 extra. See how they sell, and don't cheat by putting crappy bands in there. Put "Y'all Want A Single" by Korn as one of them. Put songs that have the "bad words" (as they like to say) that are actually popular and by popular bands as part of this trial. Compare the sales figures and decide if its worth it. Oh, and of course, release two versions of the song - censored and uncensored. See how they sell compared to one another. Corporations (especially parent corporations, *cough* *cough*) are more open to risky ideas when they know it's worth the money.


Games have gotten away with it before, and you can too

If I said "Name a controversy related to Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas", you would probably say "The Hot Coffee Mod". Many people overlooked that it should have been called "Grand Theft Auto: ****ing ****ers." It curses plenty and often, and it sold a ****ton of games. :p


Most importantly - kids are protected

As shown above, there are several ways through which parents can restrict Xbox Live from allowing them to download M-Rated content. And, of course, they can actually be parents and make sure to watch what their kids are playing and learn about it. 80% of gamer parents play games with their kids - that certainly counts for something.


So what the Hell do you want me to do about it?

First and foremost, if you post a reply to this thread, please post your age. Regardless of how old you are, it would be nice to show Harmonix the age diversity of gamers - especially the ones with opinions on this matter.

If you are too lazy to post, vote in the poll at least. Be honest. Think about whether or not you would like to hear "Ya'll Want a Single Say Heck No!" or ""Her fellas gonna kill me, oh freaking will he" (The Who's "Doctor Jimmy"). Think about whether you care enough about this to pay a little extra for the song and for Harmonix's trouble.

Thanks for reading and thanks for rocking to Harmonix and the readers of this post.

I am Ihmhi. I am a 22 year old gamer and I have this to say: Let's take off the kid gloves and make some ****ing songs. :cool:

[monoxidehektik]

Thanks for the wall o text, but in a previous interview they've already stated that they are trying to get uncensored songs in the DLC.

[Ihmhi]

Yes, I know about that. That's one of the reasons I brought this up.

They said "trying". If you were "trying" to score a touchdown in football, wouldn't it be great to hear your fans cheering you on?

It is not the bands that are withholding the uncensored versions. They are either being stonewalled (ha, I said wall) by someone higher up in corporate, parents groups, the ESRB, or any combination of those three.

I am telling them, keep up the good fight for us adult gamers.

[pmpboarder]

HELL ****ING YES!

That is, I would pay one dollar more. But only for the sake of the poll. I know that if and when they do roll out the uncensored tunes, they won't charge any extra for them.

(I hope. :rolleyes:)

[GlassPrisoner]

Yeah, I know I would love "Feel Me Don't You" by Dada to be DLC someday... and that song simply could not be censored!

[dcha]

It all depends on the song. If you listen to Slipknot you definitely hear it, if you listen to bloc party, they curse, but you rarely hear it.

[phulcrum]

I wouldn't pay extra for uncensored songs. I can deal with them the way they are now for less money.

[where_the_f_is_VanHalen]

I'm all for uncensored songs and would pay extra, already have friends that substitute them and sacrifice score. I'm 31 by the way.

[marcin]

For it. Would pay for it. 27.

[Fickle9]

I would pay an extra $1, but no more. Age: 15.

I hate having words censored, such as the word 'sh*t' in the song "Teenagers" by MCR in Guitar Hero 2.

[PikkuKaiShinto]

I dont care if they ever do.
When I sing along with the songs I sing the uncernsored lyrcs already >.>

"YOURE A ***** IN SHEEPS CLOTHING! ******* UP ALL I DOOOOO!"

[JackBNimble]

I wouldn't pay extra for uncensored songs. I can deal with them the way they are now for less money.

I agree,
I would not pay extra for any uncensored songs thats just foolish.I don't care one way or the other if they release uncensored songs but to ask for more money for them is very low.
I would rather see an "M" rating on the songs.

I find it laughable that some of you are willing to pay more for uncensored songs when you shouldn't have to.

BTW I'm 37 and have 3 kids ,2 of them play RB with me.

[paddy56]

I think that if there is a song with swearing in it they should release two versions. One you could play with the family and another you could play with friends. Im 14 BTW

[Ihmhi]

You have to understand that there's a negative slant towards anything remotely adult-oriented in the gaming industry. "Mature" is a joke.

23 games have been rated AO by the ESRB, ever.

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/search.jsp

All three major console companies (Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony) have a "No AO" clause in their publishing agreements, meaning you will never see an AO game released on a console. Note on the list are two exceptions: Thrill Kill for the Playstation 1 (which was rated but never came out) and GTA:SA (which, as we all know, was re-rated after it came out).

So there is a very negative atmosphere in the corporate world about anything remotely close to adult oriented. I would wager a lot of the higher-ups see Rock Band as a "kids game".

Why pay even a penny more for an uncensored song?

Well, it proves two points.

1) We're willing to pay for adult-oriented material.

2) We're willing to pay above average for adul-oriented material.

This might generate what is known as a niche market. d:

If corporations see that they can make a good profit (Hell, even a premium) on content for the average gamer (who, again, is 33 and has played games for 12 years), then they will be less likely to restrict more adult-oriented material.

Getting this stuff done will be one step in the right direction. Next would be getting an AO game on the consoles - and having it selling well. (GTA:SA has done that on a technicality, but I would want to see one sell well from jump, and be rated as such from jump.)

Corporations listen to two things: whoever *****es the loudest, and money. We can't ***** any louder than idiots like Focus on the Family and Mothers Against [Insert Controversial Topic Here], so we have to speak with money.

[Rock_Starman]

I would absolutly not pay and there's no reason to charge extra.
Maybe this is why we don't have Man in the Box yet. That'd be a good start.

[Focker420]

I completely agree... on the PS3 u can set it up for privacy and parental controls as well... i hate not having some real rock songs... im 17 and i listen to alot of hard rock... i would 100% pay the extra money... i couldnt believe it when they had 'killing in the name of' on gh... it was the weakest thing ever... the entire last half of the song is "F*** You I Wont Do What Ya Tell Me" which of course they didnt do!! why have the song in the game then?!! that would be awesome and fun the play and actually be able to hearand sing those exact words... yes the game does have some young players but the majority of the people playing the game are over 18... and i do think u start offering five songs a week w/ two of them w/ explicit lyrics and ur dlc sales will go up considerably... it just takes away from whats great about the songs if u start altering the lyrics from what they actually are... whats the point then?! I suggest some TOOL!!!!, Godsmack, Metallica of course, Rage Against The Machine, Alice In Chains, Sevendust, Slipknot, Tenacious D, The Offspring, and The Union Underground... All have great songs for Rock Band...ill post some videos another time... they could also make an expansion that has a whole setlist of songs and its just rated mature...

[phulcrum]

I'm 23 by the way.

But my origional statement still rings true. I with the songs that are out now I don't really notice the editing all that much. Yes, I can pick out where lyrics were changed but it's no worse then what they do on the radio. The only time that I think it would ruin the song is if every other word in the song was adult rated and they changed half the lyrics just to get around it. But we don't have any songs like that yet so it's okay by me.

[Focker420]

im just not big on censorship... i dont think they should censor anything on tv or radio either but thats just the way our society is... they have to make it out like its this appauling thing when its not... its a couple of words... just cause a pack of women got together and decided it was too terrible... which im pretty sure they were wives of congressmen... You can also go to war and get shot or do an adult film, but u cant have a beer or gamble by god!! u have to wait 3 yrs... hows that for logic? ur 18 and now u have to wait 3 more yrs to drink and gamble yet supposedly ur an adult...

[Ihmhi]

Well, less and less young people have that sort of uptight attitude. As time goes by, some of those people will get elected to Congress and the Senate and we can hope that some of those stupid laws will go out the window. V. ^.^

[LinuxSteven301]

Not Now John, Pink Floyd ;) would be bordering blasphemous to change 1 word of the song and would rock playing on the drums.

[cyanyde]

holy **** ihmhi did some homework. lovin it dude. this took some time and i applaud you for it

[DethBoxx]

Well, they did put out Sweet Leaf already...

[Sayburr]

Pay extra to curse... no, **** that. I can sing the song with the curse words in it overtop the replacement words, as long as your in tune it doesn't matter what you actually say. I will take the Radio edits instead of paying the extra money. I am spending enough on this game as it is... That reminds me, I need to update my sig.

[DStone39]

A well done thread...

I voted that I would pay 50 cents more for uncensored content, but it really shouldn't be more than regular content... But 50 cents isn't very much...

Also, an unknown fact, but for some odd reason, OXM labeled the Harmonix Pack "Mature." It's probably a mess-up by OXM, but its still weird that they rated 3 downloaded songs. It'd probably change if the content went up on the Marketplace.

Age: 16.

[Sapphire]

I'm not going to pay anything extra just to hear a few f-bombs. I don't care about them either way in the songs.

I will most certainly NOT pay an extra dollar on a 3-dollar song for a few extra words.

[topperharley]

Doesn't really matter to me. Excessive swearing in a song is a lack of creativity. What's the point? To show that you're angry or emotional? You can do that just as well without swearing, through the lyrics and the music. At least, musicians that don't need a crutch can do that.

[RawWS6]

Interesting post. I certainly wouldn't pay more for it, but I wish we would get original versions of songs.

There are plenty of games out there with cussing in them that are very successful (COD4 anyone?). I find it hard to believe that cussing can be accepted as part of a military operation, but not as a part of artistic expression.

[Lacerare]

As a parent buying a XBOX 360 and a PS3, you should've known you were buying your kids an adult toy with mature games. When Rock Band comes out on the Wii, then they have an excuse, but as it stands, these are adult platforms and a moderately adult game. Parents either choose to admit they will let their kids play the adult systems or they remove it from the household.

I think parents shelter their kids too much, and most of all, I think parents blame such stupid things as song lyrics to make up for their shortcomings on raising their children.

So **** YEAH, give me some MOTHER ****ING CURSE!

[HPLabonte]

""Her fellas gonna kill me, oh freaking will he" (The Who's "Doctor Jimmy").


"What is it? I'll take it! That cake there, I'll bake it!"

[vsTerminus]

A premium on songs would make me more selective. In the case of Korn, I won't buy the song, censored or not. But if they started offering In Flames or Disarmonia Mundi, I would pay extra without a second thought.

I'm 20, and all I can say on the matter is
I'm Under Control, I won't do what you tell me!
UUUNNDERRR CONNNTRROOOLLLL!!!!!

[Assault420]

You gotta love loopholes. I would also be willing to pay an extra buck a song for it to be uncensored.

[kanrei]

Thanks for the wall o text, but in a previous interview they've already stated that they are trying to get uncensored songs in the DLC.

As Yoda said: it is do or do not; there is no try.

I honestly don't care one way or the other, but cannot let the chance to quote Yoda go by unanswered.

[A New Pyro Fool]

Pay an extra dollar just so I can hear artists say "sh*t" as opposed to "poop?"

No thanks.

[Loady420]

I would like to hear orignal songs with out censor.. But I mean come on to pay for it? Its easier to release the orignal than it is to make the cover.. Cost more time and money to dumb down a song I would think.

[JimmyRyan]

I would pay extra, but it would be heavily dependant on what the song is.

I stand behind this effort in full, though. I think the numbers attest to the fact that we can handle adult language in games. I am a little fed up with the stuffiness applied to the gaming industry when movies can get away with literally anything. I don't see games as being anything fundamentally different.

I am 26.

[whofan]

How about we get some REAL mature music on here?

I just love nowadays that what qualifies music as "mature" is constant swearing, it's ridiculous.

I say great to uncensored lyrics, but let's focus on real mature music and not a bunch of losers jumping up and down yelling "f this! My life fing blows and there's sh I can do about it because I'm an *******"

Good music CAN integrate strong language without it becoming overbearing, and thus can still make the "T" rating..

That being said, I want to see "Beelzeboss" by Tenacious D put up for dlc, just because it is so over the top and satirical with its swearing.

BTW, I'm 25

[pmpboarder]

I'm 20, and all I can say on the matter is
I'm Under Control, I won't do what you tell me!
UUUNNDERRR CONNNTRROOOLLLL!!!!!

HAHAHAHAAAA! Hilarious! :D It's funny 'cause it's true! (And I get the reference!) :cool:

[Lail]

22 years old and support uncensored lyrics.

However, I do see a potential problem here. Let's say you pay $5.50 for a 3 song pack that all have "strong language" that you didn't know about because you've never heard the songs before. Or, you've heard the songs, but just on the radio and didn't realize that there was actually cursing in them.

Now imagine that after you pay that money, your parental settings are keeping you from playing those songs. There are no refunds that I'm aware of, so basically you're screwed out of your money.

Just a thought...

[Kr0ni]

I dont care if they ever do.
When I sing along with the songs I sing the uncernsored lyrcs already >.>

"YOURE A ***** IN SHEEPS CLOTHING! ******* UP ALL I DOOOOO!"

Now I may be mistaken, but isn't the first word thats censored there, appear in the song In Bloom uncensored?

[Kr0ni]

22 years old and support uncensored lyrics.

However, I do see a potential problem here. Let's say you pay $5.50 for a 3 song pack that all have "strong language" that you didn't know about because you've never heard the songs before. Or, you've heard the songs, but just on the radio and didn't realize that there was actually cursing in them.

Now imagine that after you pay that money, your parental settings are keeping you from playing those songs. There are no refunds that I'm aware of, so basically you're screwed out of your money.

Just a thought...

Thats a simple solution' they just flag the DLC with an indicator of it having strong language, like the (*) that indicates its a cover. Also they can include a warning/notification in the DLC description itself.

[PikkuKaiShinto]

Now I may be mistaken, but isn't the first word thats censored there, appear in the song In Bloom uncensored?

Yeah, I don't know why it's blocked on Welcome Home, but not in In Bloom.
Unless they can think of a better rhyme that wouldnt make it look uncensored... Wolf In Sheep Clothing sounds natural, but:
We can have some more
Nature is a wolf? o.O
Boar? I dont know.. I cant think of anything that would make a good censor for that song.

[Knights_of_Ni]

ok well I'm 14 and I would still download unscensorced songs but I'm fine with censcored songs because I've been kinda overusing my dads credit card for DLC and any extra would be bad... plus I have two younger siblings (7 and 10) so I don't know that it would be a good thing if they heard me playing some unscensored song. Also the only song that they don't even replace the bad word is Sabatoge. All the other songs they have replacement words so it's not that awkward gap of silence

[foolosophy]

Um guys, there's already uncensored DLC songs...

Moonage Daydream - "I'll be a rock-and-roll ***** for you!"

My Iron Lung - "Twentieth century *****."

And even though they don't ever say the word, "Queen *****" has a curse in its title.

Unless you guys are talking about songs with extensive amounts of cursing. In which case, why would Harmonix bother to release censored versions of those kinds of songs? I guess you could make a debate about ***** not being a curse to begin with. I'm just saying, is there any song currently available for DLC that has been cleaned up? I don't see what the complaints are for.

[AllMe]

I'm 33 and have been gaming more than 12 years. I have 2 children and I would love to have DLCs in their true form(as written). I'm not concerned with what other parents or children do. I do my job as a parent, therefore I am completely comfortable downloading Mature songs. Quite honestly, I think the whole rating concept is unnecessay. My children don't play a game or see a movie until I see it first. I decide what is appropriate, not Big Brother;)

[Ihmhi]

22 years old and support uncensored lyrics.

However, I do see a potential problem here. Let's say you pay $5.50 for a 3 song pack that all have "strong language" that you didn't know about because you've never heard the songs before. Or, you've heard the songs, but just on the radio and didn't realize that there was actually cursing in them.

Now imagine that after you pay that money, your parental settings are keeping you from playing those songs. There are no refunds that I'm aware of, so basically you're screwed out of your money.

Just a thought...

Can't happen. Parental settings on the DLC means you can not even download it in the first place.

Parental settings on the game will let it play.

Let's say you set the console to only let games T or below play, but you do not set the Live Marketplace settings at all. You can download the M-rated content, and it does not magically change the rating of the game AFAIK.

Parents who do not want their kids to play these have to set their console and their Xbox Live Marketplace to T. Then they would only be able to grab the T-Rated songs or below.

[BigBadFatKid]

TOP 10 INDUSTRY FACTS

2. Sixty-seven percent of American heads of households play computer and video games.

3. The average game player is 33 years old and has been playing games for 12 years.

4. The average age of the most frequent game buyer is 38 years old. In 2007, 92 percent of computer game buyers and 80 percent of console game buyers were over the age of 18.

6. Eighty-six percent of game players under the age of 18 report that they get their parents’ permission when renting or buying games, and 91 percent say their parents are present when they buy games.

7. Thirty-six percent of American parents say they play computer and video games. Further, 80 percent of gamer parents say they play video games with their kids. Sixty-six percent feel that playing games has brought their families closer together.

8. Thirty-eight percent of all game players are women. In fact, women over the age of 18 represent a significantly greater portion of the game-playing population (31%) than boys age 17 or younger (20%).

9. In 2007, 24 percent of Americans over the age of 50 played video games, an increase from nine percent in 1999.





okay where the **** did you get these stats from. first of all in my life, ive seen at least 500 adults in my life from my parents, parents friends, friends parents, my dads work people and so on bla bla bla. not ONE person that i know is a parent that plays video games. One thing I do know is 70% of my school plays video games and im in high school (under 18). and what kind of ****** *****y ass *** kid do you think asks permission to rent rock band? christ. Does anyone here really believe 38% of woman play video games? then how come on microphone chat I still have never played with one woman on PS3. If your going to make up facts at LEAST try to make them believable.

Another Hoax caught by BigBadFatKid

[AllMe]

okay where the **** did you get these stats from. first of all in my life, ive seen at least 500 adults in my life from my parents, parents friends, friends parents, my dads work people and so on bla bla bla. not ONE person that i know is a parent that plays video games. One thing I do know is 70% of my school plays video games and im in high school (under 18). and what kind of ****** *****y ass *** kid do you think asks permission to rent rock band? christ. Does anyone here really believe 38% of woman play video games? then how come on microphone chat I still have never played with one woman on PS3. If your going to make up facts at LEAST try to make them believable.

Another Hoax caught by BigBadFatKid

I'm about to call your mother...LOL

As a 33 year old woman I can state as a fact, that I personally know about 30 or 40 people in my age bracket, 1/2 of them women, who are serious gamers. 80% of above mentioned people are parents. I never speak on the mic on-line until I whoop someones butt because when they know they are being destroyed by a girl they quit or start getting vulgar. Obviously you are one of the latter persons otherwise one of the multitude of women out there would have spoken to you.

[xdentalwarx]

Am I the only one who very clearly can hear the f-bomb in one of the bonus songs...pretty sure it's "Seven" I don't sing, so I doubt it's in the vocal note track, but the song itself pretty clearly says it.

[Hanover]

What I think is hysterical is that the difference between M (Mature) and AO (Adults Only) is 1 year.

Like a person transforms that much maturity-wise within one year. LOL.



You have to understand that there's a negative slant towards anything remotely adult-oriented in the gaming industry. "Mature" is a joke.

23 games have been rated AO by the ESRB, ever.

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/search.jsp

All three major console companies (Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony) have a "No AO" clause in their publishing agreements, meaning you will never see an AO game released on a console. Note on the list are two exceptions: Thrill Kill for the Playstation 1 (which was rated but never came out) and GTA:SA (which, as we all know, was re-rated after it came out).

So there is a very negative atmosphere in the corporate world about anything remotely close to adult oriented. I would wager a lot of the higher-ups see Rock Band as a "kids game".

Why pay even a penny more for an uncensored song?

Well, it proves two points.

1) We're willing to pay for adult-oriented material.

2) We're willing to pay above average for adul-oriented material.

This might generate what is known as a niche market. d:

If corporations see that they can make a good profit (Hell, even a premium) on content for the average gamer (who, again, is 33 and has played games for 12 years), then they will be less likely to restrict more adult-oriented material.

Getting this stuff done will be one step in the right direction. Next would be getting an AO game on the consoles - and having it selling well. (GTA:SA has done that on a technicality, but I would want to see one sell well from jump, and be rated as such from jump.)

Corporations listen to two things: whoever *****es the loudest, and money. We can't ***** any louder than idiots like Focus on the Family and Mothers Against [Insert Controversial Topic Here], so we have to speak with money.

[Ihmhi]

okay where the **** did you get these stats from. first of all in my life, ive seen at least 500 adults in my life from my parents, parents friends, friends parents, my dads work people and so on bla bla bla. not ONE person that i know is a parent that plays video games. One thing I do know is 70% of my school plays video games and im in high school (under 18). and what kind of ****** *****y ass *** kid do you think asks permission to rent rock band? christ. Does anyone here really believe 38% of woman play video games? then how come on microphone chat I still have never played with one woman on PS3. If your going to make up facts at LEAST try to make them believable.

Another Hoax caught by BigBadFatKid

I got them from The Entertainment Software Association (http://www.theesa.com/index.php).

This is the link which was at the bottom of that quote box - the source of the facts.

http://www.theesa.com/facts/top_10_facts.php

According to their About (http://www.theesa.com/about/index.php) page:




The Entertainment Software Association (ESA) is the U.S. association exclusively dedicated to serving the business and public affairs needs of companies that publish video and computer games for video game consoles, personal computers, and the Internet. ESA members collectively account for more than 90 percent of the $7.4 billion in entertainment software sold in the U.S. in 2006, and billions more in export sales of U.S.-made entertainment software.

The ESA offers a range of services to interactive entertainment software publishers including a global anti-piracy program, business and consumer research, government relations and intellectual property protection efforts. ESA also owns and operates the E3 Media & Business Summit.


More than 90% of the software released in the United States was from ESA members. These facts come from a company that represents 90% of the video game industry.

Best example to describe them: they are the RIAA or MPAA of the video game world in the United States, except they don't go around suing the pants off of people.

I would also like to add that this data was likely taken from some sort of nationwide poll (that is, not just asking your neighbors who play games and who doesn't - it's just a little bigger than that).

Out of the people I know, let's see... I know 18 parents, 4 of which play video games regularly. That's 22% of the parents I know. 2 of my friends are a couple who are expecting their first child and they both play games, so when that kid is born, the percentage will amazingly shoot up to 30% when they are added to the list of "parents" I know.

I know about 40 people over the age of 18 (not counting the aforementioned parents_, and every single one of them plays video games. By my data, 68% of adults over the age of 18 play video games.

See, this is the difference between a relative opinion and a company that has the money and resources to do nationwide polling and get accurate facts.

Another idiot who doesn't pay attention caught by Ihmhi.

[NeMeSiS2423]

I thought Creep already dropped f-bombs every verse??

Is it censored? I thought I could pick it out. Maybe I was just singing it in my head and didn't notice they left it out?

[Zidane]

I'd love to see it happen. I'm tired of yelling "F*CKEN" during Sabatoge and not getting extra points.

[cyanyde]

bumpiddy bump

[Ihmhi]

I'd love to see it happen. I'm tired of yelling "F*CKEN" during Sabatoge and not getting extra points.

Yes, let's not forget the blasphemy of ruining a lot of classic songs. ):<

[bloozman]

It is not all that important for me, but I would pay to keep the artist's original version intact. 29.

[NGW]

I'd rather have the songs as they are performed by the artist, no censoring or lyrical changes and what not...but there is no way I'd pay extra for it.

[vsTerminus]

HAHAHAHAAAA! Hilarious! :D It's funny 'cause it's true! (And I get the reference!) :cool:

Glad someone gets it.
I was so psyched when I saw that song in GH2, and after I played it once I never wanted to hear the cover again.

Sometimes I hardly notice a small censor in a song (See: Wolf in sheep's clothing) despite knowing the song quite well already.
Other times the song just feels entirely ruined.
I don't think that all songs should be uncensored in DLC, there is certainly a market of people out there who don't really need the swearing and would be just as happy without it, but in many songs where a line or two in every chorus would have to be changed, that's just going to ruin the track.

And it's already been said, but the T rating only applies to the game as you buy it on the disc. Downloaded Content is subject to its own ratings, and therefore doesn't have to be kept at the same rating as the game itself (although it *Does* make sense in most cases from a business point of view)

Oh, and a side note to AllMe:

Do you really enforce everything your kids do by doing it first and then giving or repealing your seal of approval?

I certainly respect that you are taking action to get involved in what you're kids are doing, but it's got to be difficult to live their lives a step ahead of them and censor it, as well as living your own life around it.

Wouldn't an approach of teaching ideals/etc and allowing them to make their own decisions be more appropriate and less time consuming?

Not to tell you how to parent, I'm sure you're much better at it than I am (Considering I'm not a parent as of yet). I just had to ask.

[dfjdejulio]

The most "Strong Language" will get you is a Mature Rating. There is just no way possible that you can get an AO rating for language.

Well, remember, "graphic sexual content" does not mean "graphical sexual content". Hardcore erotica in audiobook form would certainly get AO.

What I'm getting at is, I think a completely uncensored version of "Closer" or "Briefcase Boogie (http://www.asklyrics.com/display/Frank_Zappa/Briefcase_Boogie_Lyrics/327633.htm)" (both of which I'd buy, by the way) might very well justify an AO. It wouldn't be just because of the swear words, it would be because of the actual meaning.

Still, there are a lot of censored songs that could come out with just a "M", yes. I'd probably buy "Down With The Sickness" by Disturbed, or "Karate (http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Karate-lyrics-Tenacious-D/32E2857E0276780A48256B7200088C17)" by Tenacious D, or, well, much of the soundtrack from the South Park movie.

[AllMe]

Oh, and a side note to AllMe:

Do you really enforce everything your kids do by doing it first and then giving or repealing your seal of approval?

I certainly respect that you are taking action to get involved in what you're kids are doing, but it's got to be difficult to live their lives a step ahead of them and censor it, as well as living your own life around it.

Wouldn't an approach of teaching ideals/etc and allowing them to make their own decisions be more appropriate and less time consuming?

Not to tell you how to parent, I'm sure you're much better at it than I am (Considering I'm not a parent as of yet). I just had to ask.


Yes, I do. You make it sound like something it's not. It is called communication. They are free to discuss anything with me. Do I have control over what they watch?...yes Do I have control over who they hang out with?...yes Do I decide what video games are appropriate?...yes Are they permitted to give a sound argument as to why I am wrong?...yes When I am wrong or when they show that they are mature enough to deal with something do I then allow it?...yes

It's called being a Mother. You may never understand. Someday though, you may have the counter role of Father which is close...but not the same.

P.S. the only things I would censor are games or movies with sexual violence. Words are just that, words.

[vsTerminus]

It's called being a Mother. You may never understand. Someday though, you may have the counter role of Father which is close...but not the same.

P.S. the only things I would censor are games or movies with sexual violence. Words are just that, words.

I think the misunderstanding on my part was due to your example. You stated that your children don't want a movie until you see it first.
Watching a movie takes two hours of your life. It seems like a rather difficult task, especially since I guarantee you're not interested in all the same movies your children are.
I don't know their age or their habits, but censoring movies in that fashion just seems difficult.

Then again, my mother censored what I watched until a certain age when she decided I was old enough to do it myself. But then it was commonly based on the movie's rating. She trusted the system I suppose.

[AllMe]

The problem with my kids(lol) is that they have mature tastes. Take Rambo for example. They wanted to see it. At 13 I was sketchy as to whether it would be too much for them. The trailers were gruesome but it is a Rambo movie after all. I went to see it and aside from some amputations, jugular ripping and child flinging I said okay. There was a war going on and there were good guys and bad guys. There's nothing wrong with violence or even excessive violence taken in context. Just like there is nothing profane in profanity.

This should sum it all up.

Vice City No
Dead Rising Yes

[ASPSAX]

On a side note, Ballroom Blitz is an awesome song to play in the background while you're playing Dead Rising.

On topic, if you're singing a song that they've censored you can always just sing the real version, nobody's stopping you. It's not like you have to be rewarded with points, you'll be getting the joy of profanity.

[AllMe]

On a side note, Ballroom Blitz is an awesome song to play in the background while you're playing Dead Rising.

On topic, if you're singing a song that they've censored you can always just sing the real version, nobody's stopping you. It's not like you have to be rewarded with points, you'll be getting the joy of profanity.

There are so many unusable songs due to the amount of cursing. If you try to censor them it would destroy them. I think that's the OPs point.

[TheBends]

I'm 16 and seriously been playing M games since the square root (that means four). A little extra swearing never hurt anyone. I yell the F word during creep anyway.

If you want to see video games AO or swearing in Rock Band
DO NOT ****ING VOTE FOR HILLARY CLINTON

If you think it would be a great contribution
Think there could then be another rap song. Even Linkin Park.

Seriously, Oh my God.

[Ihmhi]

Hillary would be bad for gamers, yes... but hey, she would have to get past the millions of dedicated gamers who won't put up with her crap. She's wouldn't be fighting games, she would be fighting the entire Internet. :D

I am glad that this thread was visited by a couple of parents who actually have sanity - i.e., "I should watch something before I let my kids see it" instead of "Cussing?! SUE THE BASTARDS!"

I am pretty certain an AO rating would apply to visual content. Stuff like Closer would probably get away with an M. There is nothing about "Language" in the AO rating classification, and the ESRB would be hard pressed to justify an AO rating for a song solely based on its lyrical content.