Real Instruments?

[Plekto]

I hear that Fender is possibly making some sort of controller.

Here's what I would envision for the perfect controller:

A modified Squire or simmilar. These are inexpensive and work reasonably well enough. It would be a real guitar, but it would have a piezo pickup in the bridge.

- The piezo would allow it to monitor each string separately.(or the pickups could if they were precise enough I guess)

- The big deal would be a switch for Rock Band mode - which ignores the tone - basically you would turn it into a 6 note guitar(one for each string)

- The game would play with you just having to hit each string (strum or pick the string, too, of course) but NOT HAVE TO PLAY THE NOTES - Just the right string.

This seems to me like a reasonable learning curve for most players - and for many of us who can play even a little bit, easier and quicker. And it would FEEL like you are playing the guitar. It isn't any harder to hit a string and strum a real guitar than learn on a controller if you've never done either before. AND it works as a real practice guitar as well - plug it in and play for real.

- Possibly add in an expert mode where the "notes" on the screen match the strings you would play if you were to actually be playing the notes - so that people who know how to play could actually hit the notes if they wanted/knew the song. This would be a great leap forward in realism and depth.

You can get the crummy plastic controller or you can get a real guitar that allows you to well, actually play it. I know I'd pay real money for such an option.

I play bass actually, so you might also have a bass available? More money - whole range of real life instruments and mics and such that can also be used with the game. Seems like an easy way to make a lot of sales and get more people interested in actually playing for real at the same time.

Fender Squire - Rock Hero Edition (Guitar and Bass)
Adaptor and mic - so you can use a real stage type mic.
Etc. :)

[vichnaiev]

Man, that's a great idea (even if it's highly unlikely they would ever do it).

Use your left hand to strum and your right hand only to interrupt the notes. The only problem is that you can't hammer on or pull off and that's a huge gameplay feature, without it the solos are nearly impossible.

[Plekto]

I'm positive that with a little work, they could figure out a way to make it work. If the strings are vibrating, it would probably allow you to do both of those types of moves. OF course, dampening the strings would be a new technique to learn.

If you could tie it into some educational program/endorsement as well, it would be superb. A cool game AND one that helps you learn to play at the same time - or at least the basics. This would appeal to me greatly, especially since I have an 8 yr old son who's itching to learn to play but lacks the motivation to put in hours.(yet will button mash on his PS2 forever if I let him)


Guitar Hero III - plastic controller and fake playing. Lame bands and poor execution.
Rock Band - option to buy real gear and play with others - which can be used to play for real later on.

I know which would make all previous music games to date look like a joke. Oh - and it would give Fender a huge wad of cash I bet. Always good incentive to get their creative minds working.

[c0nd0rd4myt]

personally i feel theres not a single thing wrong with the way the guitars are designed right now, and i think it would be wise not to totally rework it like this to save both time and cost.

[Plekto]

The point of this would be that this would be a special high-end accessory in addition to the normal controller - and would be used with a special advanced mode. Tougher - but actually is using a real bass or guitar. It would transform it from just a game to a real experience, much how steering wheels make a driving game like Gran Turismo better. Sure, you can play GT with the analog controller, but the wheel is also an option.

And the equipment would also plug into a real amp. The "rock band" version being notable for its mode switch and USB type plug. The normal 1/4 inch jack and controls would remain unchanged.

Then add in the Squire Bass and of course a proper mic with a connector - that you could unplug and swap back in the XLR/normal mic connector it came with as well and use it for real vocals.

I see Fender Squires(both types) going for $149 all over the place. Less on holiday special.

With the game, that's a total of $190-200 if you just want one specific instrument. $350 with both, and $35 for the Fender Mic. Maybe a $400 combo package could be worked out or something? You get a Squire Bass, Squire Guitar, the game, and a Mic. Works with the game or for real life practice.

Or get the normal version for $100-$200. I'd pay $400 in a second for a total setup like this. And I suspect a lot of parents would as well - seeing how many parents want their kids to get into music these days. Give them a game, comes with both types of stringed instruments, and a mic - and let the kids work it out which one they like the best!

I mention this because with an educational spin on it/endorsement, it'll gain a level of legitimacy that GH3 just won't have. Maybe even have a second special "chord and fingering" tutorial section thrown in - because those instructional videos tend to bite and nobody likes chord books. Since you played the game using real strings, a real pick, and the correct strings already, moving to proper playing techniques/finger positions would be a natural progression.)

AND, It locks a lot of people into Fender for their second, real guitar later on. Perhaps put in a coupon for $40-50 off of a Fender instrument of your choice - big combo package only? Fender would have to subsidize this a bit, but it's a no-brainer move from a marketing angle, based upon how many people bought Guitar Hero and then coughed up extra cash for the TAC controllers. I'm not going to have any problem with giving Fender a right to make money and future sales on this if it's done well - more power to them. The world can always use more people playing, afterall.

[SwordofWhedon]

What you're suggesting would be horrendously expensive

A far better idea is a discount coupon in the game that's applicable toward a real guitar or drums. Seriously. Even a box to do what you're suggesting, just a MIDI interface box that works with a guitar with the kind of speed and precision you'd need is hundreds of dollars

I know that Red Octane is making some wood guitar hero controllers, but it's still going to be the same basic thing. You have to keep the "game" line firmly on the game side for the sake of accessibility.

[c0nd0rd4myt]

The point of this would be that this would be a special high-end accessory in addition to the normal controller - and would be used with a special advanced mode. Tougher - but actually is using a real bass or guitar. It would transform it from just a game to a real experience, much how steering wheels make a driving game like Gran Turismo better. Sure, you can play GT with the analog controller, but the wheel is also an option.

And the equipment would also plug into a real amp. The "rock band" version being notable for its mode switch and USB type plug. The normal 1/4 inch jack and controls would remain unchanged.

Then add in the Squire Bass and of course a proper mic with a connector - that you could unplug and swap back in the XLR/normal mic connector it came with as well and use it for real vocals.

I see Fender Squires(both types) going for $149 all over the place. Less on holiday special.

With the game, that's a total of $190-200 if you just want one specific instrument. $350 with both, and $35 for the Fender Mic. Maybe a $400 combo package could be worked out or something? You get a Squire Bass, Squire Guitar, the game, and a Mic. Works with the game or for real life practice.

Or get the normal version for $100-$200. I'd pay $400 in a second for a total setup like this. And I suspect a lot of parents would as well - seeing how many parents want their kids to get into music these days. Give them a game, comes with both types of stringed instruments, and a mic - and let the kids work it out which one they like the best!

I mention this because with an educational spin on it/endorsement, it'll gain a level of legitimacy that GH3 just won't have. Maybe even have a second special "chord and fingering" tutorial section thrown in - because those instructional videos tend to bite and nobody likes chord books. Since you played the game using real strings, a real pick, and the correct strings already, moving to proper playing techniques/finger positions would be a natural progression.)

AND, It locks a lot of people into Fender for their second, real guitar later on. Perhaps put in a coupon for $40-50 off of a Fender instrument of your choice - big combo package only? Fender would have to subsidize this a bit, but it's a no-brainer move from a marketing angle, based upon how many people bought Guitar Hero and then coughed up extra cash for the TAC controllers. I'm not going to have any problem with giving Fender a right to make money and future sales on this if it's done well - more power to them. The world can always use more people playing, afterall.

okay, my friend was able to pick up a guitar, amp and stand for 150 dollars. spend 50 bucks on real life lessons and you zero out between a real real guitar and your semi-real guitar idea.

if you just wanna play classic songs than just keep playing GH. learning how to play the real guitar (in my mind) is for if/when you wanna try writing your own songs and making your own band. and if you really want to learn to play the real thing, than i dont think your little go-between would be a good idea.

in a similar case, ive been doing martial arts for about 7 years, and in that i noticed something when people learn, teach and practice our Poomse (forms). people learn how to do the forms, motions, kicks, blocks, sequences and all that jazz, but it doesnt transcend past that. they learn how to do Koryo (the first black belt form for Tae Kwon Do) but what they learn does not transfer to how they do thier normal kicking or how they spar. with that mindset, what you would have are peoople who would know how to play Beast and the Harlot really well, but not able to take that and play on thier own.

[xCHRISx]

The point of this would be that this would be a special high-end accessory in addition to the normal controller - and would be used with a special advanced mode. Tougher - but actually is using a real bass or guitar. It would transform it from just a game to a real experience, much how steering wheels make a driving game like Gran Turismo better. Sure, you can play GT with the analog controller, but the wheel is also an option.

To pick apart your idea a little bit, playing with the current guitar models is akin to playing GT with a steering wheel. They are both peripherals to make the game more realistic and fun to play, instead of using a standard controller.

A more suitable comparison to what you're suggesting would be to buy a car and replace the windshield with a plasma screen so you can sit in a real car and use a real gear shift and pedals while you play Gran Turismo. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Expensive and somewhat pointless, because if you own a real car you can simply go drive it instead, and if you own a real guitar, you can simply go play it instead. I know your intentions are good, I just don't think it's a very plausible idea. What someone else suggested, including a coupon for $100 off a real Fender guitar, or what have you, would be a great idea to help bridge the gap between playing a game and learning to play for real though.

[Plekto]

I don't see why Fender, who is getting mad props in this game, can't make a Squire with a $10 piece of electronics in it and a piezo pickup, plus a usb jack. The rest would be software in the game. I'm not talking about MIDI - but one input for each string. Is the correct string being played at all? That's a very simple function that's just perfect for a piezo pickup and a dedicated microchip.

That way, instead of strumming some lame switch and pressing 5-6 buttons, you strum a real guitar and press 6 real strings.

Ie - "Well, you ace'd that song - now here's the actual notes you need to play using those same strings if you want to play it offline." Offer tab notation and such as bonuses. No midi controller needed - the payer can easily tell if they are hitting the right note or not by ear at that point, having played the song dozens of times already. Plus, they can plug it into an amp to hear themselves if they want.

Have a nice progression:
1: Basic game with controller.
2: Advanced game with the Squire controller. - plays identical. But is proper size, weight, and so on, and has real strings - so your little yuppie fingers get properly toughened up/used to it.
3: Special Mode (third mode) Then it starts switching the notes around to he actual strings used to play the game. No tougher, just using the proper strings.(in some cases this might be easier, or harder)

What got me thinking about it is that Fender has very inexpensive guitars and basses right now that are among the lowest cost - and they don't suck as practice/learning tools, either. Why pay $50-60 for a controller when I could pay $150 for a real guitar that also worked as a controller if I was in the mood to do so? Just the marketing tie-ins and such alone would make me consider this if I was Fender. What's a piezo pickup and some basic electronics cost? Even if it did require a midi chip - that's also very inexpensive. And the majority of it would be handled by software in the PS3.

And, lastly, no, it wouldn't be easy - in fact, quite difficult to get the code right, but has ANY video game ever had a real tie-in into actual real-life playing in any meaningful way? It seems to me that it might be worth trying.

P.S. A couple of you point out that it's overkill - but if the game is going to be made and played, why not try to do a little bridging of the game with real life so that when and if they decide to utilize that coupon, it's not a completely frustrating experience that they've had no previous experience in doing. Or they can take lessons with the Squire they have.

Typical guitar basics are learning the strings, learning to strum/pick properly, then toughening up the fingers, learning a few chords, and so on... this would cover that much at least - serve as a built-in primer of sorts.

[c0nd0rd4myt]

Ie - "Well, you ace'd that song - now here's the actual notes you need to play using those same strings if you want to play it offline." Offer tab notation and such as bonuses. No midi controller needed - the payer can easily tell if they are hitting the right note or not by ear at that point, having played the song dozens of times already. Plus, they can plug it into an amp to hear themselves if they want.
.

or you learn to read music and play the songs that way with a real and save yourself alot of time, considering you are basically learning how to play the same song 2 or 3 different ways. i also think your giving the person way the average GH player way too much credit by telling by ear if its right or not.

oh and as an extra FYI, with the right cabling you can allready hook tvs and such to amps.

[CARBON]

This is actually really fun. We turned off the band in the audio options and then cabled the PS2 to my Marshall amp. So the guitar parts were coming out of the Marshall at full band volume and someone played the drum parts on a real set of drums. We were going to try it with a singer too but never got around to it.

[damnfinecat]

you still aren't playing anything. You're plucking strings. It's like real guitar but for lazy people.

[c0nd0rd4myt]

not to mention that your only focused on guitars. would the mic have a coupon for one free singing lesson (or a spot on American Idol, whichever is easier)?

[Plekto]

not to mention that your only focused on guitars. would the mic have a coupon for one free singing lesson (or a spot on American Idol, whichever is easier)?

Heh.

Unfortunately, I doubt if voice lessons would be possible, but if say, it was off of Fender equipment, Fender does make a ~$35-$40 mic already - that they could probably tweak a bit to make into a RockStar version.

[Apoc29]

- The game would play with you just having to hit each string (strum or pick the string, too, of course) but NOT HAVE TO PLAY THE NOTES - Just the right string.


Interesting idea, but using a real guitar for this game is pointless if you're not actually trying to learn how to play a real guitar. Here are a few problems:

First of all, if the game ONLY required you to hit the right string, at which fret would you hit it? All on the same fret, or different frets?

Second of all, how would they translate this new gameplay using a Guitar Hero-style fretboard? They'd have to change it, otherwise, it wouldn't be intuitive. We're all used to 5 vertical fret buttons, but now you have 6 horizontal strings. You might say, "well, use the same GH system but with 6 colored notes", but again, consider where on the string are you actually going to finger those notes?

If you're going to use this "simplified" system, it's just too complicated and unintuitive for a novice player. You might as well just go all the way and detect every note and at least you might actually learn the correct way to play guitar.

[SwordofWhedon]

I think you're missing what I'm saying

In order to make a guitar that will function for the game and real life would require an interface box that would drive the cost up hundreds of dollars.

It doesn't matter if you put it in an Ibanez beginner knockoff or a Fender Strat, the interface box would cost, at manufacture, more than the entire rest of the game combined

[Plekto]

It would of course be an advanced mode spcifically unlocked with the guitar.

And there would be no actual frets involved - all you would have to do is hit the correct string. If the string were matched up to the proper one you'd play in the song, it would make the chords correct - though obviously in the wrong position - but that would be easy to adjust to in real life I bet. Just use the same chord in the right position - or pretty close to it. And, yes it would be very tough. BUT it would tie into real life practice in many ways. The main point of the guitar would be to get kids used to the strings and basic playing technique. This is the most frustrating point for many kids in fact - the period where their fingers are not toughened up and hurt. Using the game to get past this alone is a major plus.

As for the electronics, all you would need to know is which of the 6 strings was hit and for how long. No notes or tones - just on/off. That is what - $10-$20 in electronics at most? Plus a USB jack. A typical controller has 12 buttons and 2 joysticks? There are MORE than enough possible input channels to cover 6 strings. This need not complex.

Shoot, if they can make something like most of the Line6 gear for $65, this is what - 1/50th as complex as a Basspod? (basic business theory states that you price anything you make 3x what you actually made it for to cover costs) This really isn't that major of an "upgrade". Shoot, I've bought electronic effects boxes for $49 that did all of this and ten times more - plus had a pedal and so on.

[benjamin]

Why not just buy one of those guitars with the fretboards that light up to tell which fret to hold down?

Or why not just learn the guitar? I know what you are saying but if you went here it would be getting out of being an actual game. And all I want it a game.

[c0nd0rd4myt]

It would of course be an advanced mode spcifically unlocked with the guitar.

And there would be no actual frets involved - all you would have to do is hit the correct string. If the string were matched up to the proper one you'd play in the song, it would make the chords correct - though obviously in the wrong position - but that would be easy to adjust to in real life I bet. Just use the same chord in the right position - or pretty close to it. And, yes it would be very tough. BUT it would tie into real life practice in many ways. The main point of the guitar would be to get kids used to the strings and basic playing technique. This is the most frustrating point for many kids in fact - the period where their fingers are not toughened up and hurt. Using the game to get past this alone is a major plus.

As for the electronics, all you would need to know is which of the 6 strings was hit and for how long. No notes or tones - just on/off. That is what - $10-$20 in electronics at most? Plus a USB jack. A typical controller has 12 buttons and 2 joysticks? There are MORE than enough possible input channels to cover 6 strings. This need not complex.

Shoot, if they can make something like most of the Line6 gear for $65, this is what - 1/50th as complex as a Basspod? (basic business theory states that you price anything you make 3x what you actually made it for to cover costs) This really isn't that major of an "upgrade". Shoot, I've bought electronic effects boxes for $49 that did all of this and ten times more - plus had a pedal and so on.

or as was said, you pick up a real guitar and the sheet music for Shout at the Devil and learn that way.

or, if you want kids to get thier fingers strong for that sorta thing, put a violin in thier hands. thier very similar in strings and such, and after they move thier fingers around and learn that for awhile, swap to guitar.

also, consider that video games rarely follow basic business theory. the Playstation 3 sells at half of what it cost to make. and beyond that, before it is made, the target audience needs to be taken into effect, and how large it is. considering the response in this post, it is mighty small.

there are many tools out there to teach people how to play guitar. if that is your ultimate goal, i think the ones that are allready out on the market would do a far better job than what you are recommending.

[sa_nick]

I hear that Fender is possibly making some sort of controller.


Fender Musical Instruments Corporation (FMIC) will have their instruments exclusively featured in the upcoming video game Rock Band(TM)"

"Rock Band, Harmonix and MTV have secured an agreement with Fender Musical Instruments Corporation, the world's most respected manufacturer of electric guitars and amplifiers, that will allow the Rock Band game controller peripheral to be modeled after the legendary Fender Stratocaster, one of the most enduring and iconic models of electric guitar in the world. In addition, Fender guitars, basses and amps will be exclusively featured in the game."

Fender is not making guitars for the game.... the game and peripheral deveopers are modeling all guitars on Fender products.

And the game play is fine how it is now, the only adition i would like to see is a "0 fret" added. Other than that its perfect.

[SwordofWhedon]

http://www.zzounds.com/item--ROLGK3

That's the kind of device you need.

In order to get something with the kind of response time and measurement you need for the game, that's the kind of box you need. As I said, it would cost, bare minimum, the same money as the rest of the game. By the time you license the technology, implement and manufacture, plus a cheap strat, that's $250 easy.

Give it up. RB, GH are games. They include interface devices appropriate to a game.

[L2-CaStLe]

Why is the focus on "real" guitars only? I own a Roland TD6KV drumkit, and the drum module has midi support. Wouldn't it be quite easy to include a midi cable for the PS3/360, compatible with Rolands drum modules? I really hope this is a part of their plans now that Roland has joined the party.

It will of course be too expensive for people that don't own a drum kit such as this, to spend over $1000 on a realistic drum kit for the game, but an add-on for the rest of us would be cool.

The drum controller has to be somewhat realistic anyways, but I would rather spend $100 on a single cable, than on a ****ty drum controller.

[SwordofWhedon]

I'd say that support for Roland drumkits should be simple to do, since all the consoles in question have USB support, and with Roland as one of the companies, getting some drivers written shouldn;t be out of the question

[phishie]

Come on you guys, the logic to this is easy.
1.Put a pickup on a downsized plastic strat model guitar or bass with cheap-o nylon strings.
2.Have technology from a digital tuner put into that pickup, in order for the actual note to be put into the system and played on a TV, or if you're jamming with a band have it displayed on the screen so you can all be in key.
3.Finally, maybe have a souped-up tuning key for each string. It could click into place for different tunings, like 1/2 step down, drop d, drop c, etc. Maybe this isn't necessary but it sure would be pretty cool, especially since you don't want to sound like all 290750237859235 players this game will have.

I swear, if you guys use the guitar hero controller... you might as well rename the game Guitar Hero III: Rock Band Addition.

[SwordofWhedon]

Not going to work. You need to have a pickup that can tell the difference between the notes, at a speed that lets you play the game. If you look at something like a digital tuner, it's slow as hell.

We're talking about $100 wholesale for a device with that kind of accuracy and speed, and you're tossing out accessibility. The amount of people who would use it is not worth the time investments. If youcan play well enough to use a real guitar with the game, then you play the real guitar.

[phishie]

Well, even if it didn't they're sure as hell doing SOMETHING. I called gamestop earlier and because my 360 is only compadible with wireless controllers I have to get a wireless guitar with it, and they said it'd be around 70 dollars. If I'm not mistaken that's a whole lot more than a GH controller.

[Tig3rj]

Well, even if it didn't they're sure as hell doing SOMETHING. I called gamestop earlier and because my 360 is only compadible with wireless controllers I have to get a wireless guitar with it, and they said it'd be around 70 dollars. If I'm not mistaken that's a whole lot more than a GH controller.

Ummm yea, by only $10. A standard 360 wirless controller goes for $50. To buy the 360 USB (Corded) GH2 controller alone sells for $60. http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=802632 (http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=802632)

[flclrocks07]

I always thought that if it came to real instruments, they would use a guitar that was wired with six lasers for the strings and depending on which fret you interrupted the laser on, it would play that particular note. It would probably cost more than a real guitar, but it's an innovative idea that I had while playing GH one day.:cool:

[c0nd0rd4myt]

Come on you guys, the logic to this is easy.
1.Put a pickup on a downsized plastic strat model guitar or bass with cheap-o nylon strings.
2.Have technology from a digital tuner put into that pickup, in order for the actual note to be put into the system and played on a TV, or if you're jamming with a band have it displayed on the screen so you can all be in key.
3.Finally, maybe have a souped-up tuning key for each string. It could click into place for different tunings, like 1/2 step down, drop d, drop c, etc. Maybe this isn't necessary but it sure would be pretty cool, especially since you don't want to sound like all 290750237859235 players this game will have.

I swear, if you guys use the guitar hero controller... you might as well rename the game Guitar Hero III: Rock Band Addition.

logic = easy

production = much harder than logic suggests

price = too high to be practical

no matter how ya slice it up, this idea just wouldnt work out in the long run.

[SoraRikuVGM]

I don't like that idea. :/

Why fix something that's not broken?

[Plekto]

I always thought that if it came to real instruments, they would use a guitar that was wired with six lasers for the strings and depending on which fret you interrupted the laser on, it would play that particular note. It would probably cost more than a real guitar, but it's an innovative idea that I had while playing GH one day.:cool:

Now, that's a neat idea!

Remember - we don't need to analyze anything in the SOUND - just know if you are hitting the right "strings" or not. We need 5 sensors and then have those mapped to the 5 proper buttons on the PS3 controller.

Perhaps a hybrid design would work - you have strings. And you have a small laser/sensor underneath the string(aiming just above the frets) Pushing down on the string would interrupt the beam. Since this wouldn't involve the electronics and pickups on the bass or guitar, it would be simple to do.

Another option might be a small wrist strap. This is the ground. You touch a string and it knows which one you interrupted the signal/path to. This would be extremely low-tech and easy to accomplish as well. Probably the easiest method of all, actually. $20 in parts I bet.

The strumming part would be a bit trickier, but that should be possible. My guess would be a simple feed from the pickup - if it's louder than say, 40-50% max input, it triggers. (would also know that way if it was being sustained) KISS - simple yes/no. No analysis or nonsense.

EDIT:
I was thinking a bit about this just now and came up with THE way to do it.
You use two lasers per string. One at the headstock where the strings come through - to tell if your fingers hit the right string. The other would be mounted at the 0 fret aiming at the bridge. It would be interrupted by the string vibrating past the beam. Yes, it's a lot of little pickups, but I bet it would be possible.

Though the big red laser "strings" idea would probably look the coolest. What do 6 keychain laser pointers go for? I bet that the standard controller could be made to use this instead of buttons - and it would play and be dramatically different than Guitar Hero. Of course, have a raised "string" plastic line along each one underneath for physical feedback. Probably cost $10 more to make. Or just use the wrist/ankle/etc strap. The controller would have 6 metal "lines/strings" embedded in the neck. Touch one and presto.

[c0nd0rd4myt]

Lasers? are you kidding? let me you in on a little hint there sparky. Lasers are pricey, especially for what your talkin about. i know they allready have guitars to help teach people how to play that use a similar setup, but you could buy a ps3 and a tv to match for less money.

[methinkso]

I always thought that if it came to real instruments, they would use a guitar that was wired with six lasers for the strings and depending on which fret you interrupted the laser on, it would play that particular note. It would probably cost more than a real guitar, but it's an innovative idea that I had while playing GH one day.:cool:

Hahaha, best idea I've seen in this thread yet.

Seriously though, what is with people thinking this game is a guitar simulator? And making the game recognize only the string plucks as opposed to having a number of frets and a string, i.e. GH, is kinda silly anyways. Why make such an elaborate controller to simulate a real guitar, and then only recognize one hand's job in game (yes this is a game, btw)?

[Plekto]

Mainly because it would add a small touch of realism, especially if there was a USB equipped guitar avalilable to play the game with. (this would also allow you to do something like Garage Band does - plug the guitar straight into your PC as well as the PS3)

Holding a real guitar and hitting strings(as well as having to dampen them and so on) would make it more popular with musicians as well. Most complain that GH1 and 2 were nothing like playing a real guitar. If you at least held and moved yur fingers on real strings(or even laser diode "strings"), it would be very very nice. (I'd say "cool", but by definition anyhing that's declared "cool" immediately isn't...)

Laser diodes in bulk are well under a dollar each. I can buy 100 of them myself, including obvious markup over cost for $1.20 each all over the net). These are the same ones you see in cheap laser pointers and optical mice - they really show up intensely red or green at night, and even during the day if pulsed, they show up very well.

An idea that came to me last night was to have them imbedded under the fretboard. Have a flexible plastic cover over them - so you press down and it interrupts the beam. This would allow it to be an almost fiber-optic like line at all times with the right coating and also expose none of the optics.

I'm thinking of a flat fretboard(or slight radius) with slight ridges - the softer part is suspended between them, so you press down inbetween the ridges for each "string".

Imagine a model plane with a typical urethane film coating over the struts. There's a support and ten there's film/plastic between it and the next one an inch later. Just in smaller scale. Of course, make this upper part/"fretboard" removeable/screwed in so it can be swapped for $5 ofr somethng when it wears out)

[c0nd0rd4myt]

there are also alot of musicians who LIKE guitar hero. there are also alot of us who are NOT musicians who LIKE guitar hero, and would NOT like this set up that you are suggesting. a real musician also not need this fake guitar, and even as you originally suggested this idea is not FOR musicians, but for people who want to learn how to play.

if a real musician wants nothing but the real deal(which seems to be the case for alot of them), how is your thing gonna make it any differance?

[SwordofWhedon]

I have to agree. Too many people seem to want to make it not like a game because they play guitar in real life

Be happy that RB/GH are enough like the real thing that it does inspire people to pick up the real thing, and now it'll d othe same with drums and singing.

Appriciate it as the game it is, and then pick up your axe or your sticks or your mic and belt out the songs you love for real. This game, if it's like Harmonix's other games will allow people to come together and have fun making pseudo music, and hopefully make them do it for real.

[Ardius]

Mainly because it would add a small touch of realism, especially if there was a USB equipped guitar avalilable to play the game with. (this would also allow you to do something like Garage Band does - plug the guitar straight into your PC as well as the PS3)

Holding a real guitar and hitting strings(as well as having to dampen them and so on) would make it more popular with musicians as well. Most complain that GH1 and 2 were nothing like playing a real guitar. If you at least held and moved yur fingers on real strings(or even laser diode "strings"), it would be very very nice. (I'd say "cool", but by definition anyhing that's declared "cool" immediately isn't...)

Laser diodes in bulk are well under a dollar each. I can buy 100 of them myself, including obvious markup over cost for $1.20 each all over the net). These are the same ones you see in cheap laser pointers and optical mice - they really show up intensely red or green at night, and even during the day if pulsed, they show up very well.

An idea that came to me last night was to have them imbedded under the fretboard. Have a flexible plastic cover over them - so you press down and it interrupts the beam. This would allow it to be an almost fiber-optic like line at all times with the right coating and also expose none of the optics.

I'm thinking of a flat fretboard(or slight radius) with slight ridges - the softer part is suspended between them, so you press down inbetween the ridges for each "string".

Imagine a model plane with a typical urethane film coating over the struts. There's a support and ten there's film/plastic between it and the next one an inch later. Just in smaller scale. Of course, make this upper part/"fretboard" removeable/screwed in so it can be swapped for $5 ofr somethng when it wears out)

If this is so easy to do, why do you not attempt to do it yourself? If you cannot do this, then obviously its not going to be too feasible for mass-production for a video game.

If this real instrument thing is such a good idea, why do none of the people that suggest it actually attempt to make the things they are suggesting? Surely they would make millions from their fantastic ideas?

Oh, thats right, it isnt a good idea. Highly un-reliable, rediculously complicated and very pointless. Will cost a fair bit to do too.

[c0nd0rd4myt]

If this is so easy to do, why do you not attempt to do it yourself? If you cannot do this, then obviously its not going to be too feasible for mass-production for a video game.

If this real instrument thing is such a good idea, why do none of the people that suggest it actually attempt to make the things they are suggesting? Surely they would make millions from their fantastic ideas?

Oh, thats right, it isnt a good idea. Highly un-reliable, rediculously complicated and very pointless. Will cost a fair bit to do too.

lets not kid ourselves here: most people are not able to video game periphreals. not necessarily because its too hard, but merely because 99.9999etc percent of the people out there dont have the tools to make it.

when i talk with some of my computer animation buddies I often suggest things for thier movies that i think would work well. i know it can be done, and that they have the skill to do it. i dont have nearly the experiene or know-how that they do, but i know they can figure it out.

whats being suggested is possible, its just not practical.

[Plekto]

I'v been altering my suggestion over time to simpliify it as much as possible and keep cost down.

Let's assume that the real instrument is out for now. That leaves the stock controller.

Perhaps the plastic I suggested could be replaced with a clear rubber membrane? Press down on a "string" to interrupt the beam. I can't imagine this costing more than $15-20 to impliment. Since the membrane and plastic "ribs" between them would raise the play surface half a centimeter or so, the whole thing could literally be a single piece.

Flat area on the plastic or wood "neck" - imagine GH2 contorller without buttons. 6 laser diodes at the bottom and receivers at the top. The plastic/rubber overlay above them, with rounded cutoffs/holes for the beams to pass through where it hits a cross-brace.

No tuners, no midi, - just replacing the buttons with a beam of colored light and a more tactile medium. Press the rubber area down a bit like pushing a real string down and presto - it registers a note. Also, because it's a laser diode, there's no switch to wear out or missfire, especially on chords(my main gripe with GH controllers).

Plus, when you hit a note, it would still project a line up to where your fingers were - so at night, it would look great. If you hit the whammy bar, it could even pulse the note/make it wobble a bit visually.

The strum bar could be pretty much as-is.

[Ardius]

lets not kid ourselves here: most people are not able to video game periphreals. not necessarily because its too hard, but merely because 99.9999etc percent of the people out there dont have the tools to make it.

when i talk with some of my computer animation buddies I often suggest things for thier movies that i think would work well. i know it can be done, and that they have the skill to do it. i dont have nearly the experiene or know-how that they do, but i know they can figure it out.

whats being suggested is possible, its just not practical.

Too right it isnt pratical.

Most of the people suggesting things are trying to make it out like its extremely obvious and very simple. Which is hardly the case.
I dont mind if people are discussing the possiblity, but some of you may be going a little too far........keep in mind the main objective: this is a game, it is meant to be fun for everyone....not just yourself. Perhpas you should take these things into consideration a little more?