Questions about Rock Band economy and unlockables...

[Magnet]

Can the money be balanced perfectly in Rock Band?

I'll be the first to admit I don't really know how the economy in RB is going to work, but I'm assuming at some point there will be nothing left to spend game money on. In Guitar Hero, there was $2200 leftover in cash after you unlocked and bought everything. Guitar Hero II worked perfectly with no money leftover after everything was bought. Then in Guitar Hero Encore: Rocks the 80s there was more money leftover again.

It's not that big of a point, but it left me confused about why I still had money left in the original Guitar Hero. I wasn't sure if I had unlocked everything at the time. I don't want anyone to be confused with leftover cash after they master Rock Band. Can someone quickly test it after it's all complete to make sure the money comes out even?

Can we please, please not have to play through Easy, Medium, and Hard just to unlock everything?

I don't think it would be terribly difficult to implement a system where playing the highest difficulty automatically unlocks the rewards for easier difficulty levels. I have a feeling that a good portion of people have had enough practice with Guitar Hero games by now that playing anything other than Expert wouldn't be much more than a waste of time. Every single GH game so far must be completed on all difficulties to unlock everything. Investing that much more time for a few more guitars is just not worth it anymore after Guitar Hero II. Can RB change this trend please?

[IErrantVentureI]

Regarding your second question:


But what about replay value? Once you've done all 40 songs on expert the day you get the game, then what? There's DLC and online to think about.. But I'm sure no one is going to start the singing and drums on expert, unless you actually do them in real life. I do understand about guitar, because I've beaten GH2 on Expert, and I never looked back once I moved up the next difficulty level. I'm all for the beating it on harder levels unlocks the easy stuff too. I think that was discussed about achievements somewhere too. Getting the achievement for beating Drum Solo on Expert unlocks all the Hard, Medium, and Easy achievements too.

[Magnet]

The replay value really comes into play when you're ascending in difficulty. Going back and playing on easier difficulties just to unlock things is a tedious task. Obviously if you're playing on Easy and rising in difficulty, there's huge replay value there. You should still unlock things in lower difficulties for that reason (if you haven't already unlocked them from a higher difficulty). But it's pretty unique to start on Expert. There's not as much replay value there unless you actually want to go back to easier difficulties and play on them. I guess the lesser replay value for the guitar is just the consequence of playing the Guitar Hero games so much. I'm betting the replay value for the entirety of GH3 for me personally will be fairly low.

I think we just need to accept that the guitar replay value is going to be lacking for many GH veterans (minus DLC and multiplayer, of course). Completing the difficulty levels in reverse solely to unlock things is just an arduous endeavor, and I don't think it should be required. If people come into Rock Band as amazing drummers or singers and start on Expert, they won't want (and shouldn't need) to go back to earlier difficulties to unlock everything either.

[Magnet]

I think that was discussed about achievements somewhere too. Getting the achievement for beating Drum Solo on Expert unlocks all the Hard, Medium, and Easy achievements too.

Yeah, I found the blog where that came from: http://www.rockband.com/index.php?do=/public/blog/view/id_403/


Xbox 360 Achievements - We hear you. For any achievements that are based on beating a difficulty level, we'll retroactively award you the achievements for all lower difficulties. So, if you beat the Drum Solo Tour on Expert, we'll give you the achievements for Hard, Medium and Easy too.

I don't have a 360 so I'm not familiar with the achievements. I'm fairly certain that they're different from in-game unlockables though. What I'm hoping is specifically for in-game unlockables to follow this same format as the achievements.

[Bakkster_Man]

It makes sense that you have leftover money after unlocking everything. Otherwise you have to 5-star everything or play on multiple difficulties.

I also think that RB will have a lot more to spend money on (Clothes, guitars, drums, amps, vans, private jets, etc), so there should always be something to spend money on. Maybe they'll even update it with extra outfits on a regular basis... Is HmxSean listening? ;)

[Magnet]

It makes sense that you have leftover money after unlocking everything. Otherwise you have to 5-star everything or play on multiple difficulties.

I don't understand what you mean. How does it make sense to have leftover money and nothing to buy with it?

[IErrantVentureI]

Maybe they'll add more clothes or something. And maybe you can make your money online too and use that for something online related.

[SixFactorial]

I have a feeling that you'll also be able to earn game money from DLC songs in Rock Band... They keep refering to the downloadable songs as "game levels". I don't think it will be like Guitar Hero where the included songs and the "extra" songs are separate. It will be better integrated somehow. Maybe DLC songs will only come in setlist packages. A setlist (or "game level") will be made up of a entire album or will be carefully selected songs from many artists/albums that would make a good setlist.

Now the reason for all of this speculation... With hundreds/thousands of songs coming via DLC, you could potentially earn LOTS of game money. Perhaps they will release new items (clothing, accesories, etc.) that will cost game money (but not real money) as an incentive/reward for paying real money to download new setlists.

That's what I would do if I was them... Harmonix should hire me to give them awesome ideas like that. :D

[Bakkster_Man]

I don't understand what you mean. How does it make sense to have leftover money and nothing to buy with it?

If 5-star everything leaves you with extra money, then you can buy everything before that point, in case you aren't too hardcore.

This way more casual players are able to work their way to unlocks as well.

[Xzyliac]

It makes sense that you have leftover money after unlocking everything. Otherwise you have to 5-star everything or play on multiple difficulties.

I also think that RB will have a lot more to spend money on (Clothes, guitars, drums, amps, vans, private jets, etc), so there should always be something to spend money on. Maybe they'll even update it with extra outfits on a regular basis... Is HmxSean listening? ;)

Yes. The question is are you listening to Sean?

[hmxsean]

I'm listening...

Well, technically reading... you get the point.

[Magnet]

If 5-star everything leaves you with extra money, then you can buy everything before that point, in case you aren't too hardcore.

This way more casual players are able to work their way to unlocks as well.

Oh, I see what you mean now.

Also, I think you have a great idea about using the in-game money to buy new downloadable outfits, instruments, etc. I don't know if it's too late to implement something like that now (is it, hmx-master-of-reading-sean?), but it would be pretty cool. Then you have a lot of incentive to buy and master the new content to get more game money to use for new clothes and instruments.

[Bakkster_Man]

I'm listening...

Well, technically reading... you get the point.

Might need to get you a text-to-speech thing so you CAN be listening.

[Apples]

I was hoping they'd do the economy like Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance, because it has so many parallels to Guitar Hero, and because it was such a fun piece of the game.

Here's essentially how it broke down:

Each match (or performance) would net you a certain amount of "tokens". Difficulty and skill of the performance slightly increased or decreased the amount, but you earned them just the same. You could play whatever you wanted, as many times as you wanted, to earn tokens. This insured anyone could unlock the whole game given enough time, and they could do so regardless of their skill level.

The tokens were then redeemable at "the krypt" (essentially a huge unlock store). The store was a matrix of roughly 675 unlockable coffins. Each coffin had a price on it, and paying the token price unlocked the contents. The contents were unknown until purchased, meaning there was a certain treature hunting element to the process. A given unlock might have a character, character outfit, new combat venue, token award, concept art, developer videos, etc. (wow the parallels from mortal kombat and GH2 are amazing there!) There were even some coffins which offered hints to the valuable unlock coffins, and a few "booby prizes" for humor.

Anyway, the grand result of this whole process was that it turned the unlocking of items into a game itself, a sort of treasure hunt, which was fun in its own right. I think the success of this model was revealed when my sister (who hates violent games) would load up the game just to spend tokens in the unlock shop and would even partake in an odd match or two to earn tokens to spend.

It's probably too late in the development cycle to implement something so sophisticated, but if you ever want to see unlockables done *right*, Mortal Kombat: DA has the blueprint.

[FYCTION]

As a side note...I dont know how you didnt have money left over in GH2...I have over $11,000 left and I still have a bit more I think I can earn.

[Magnet]

As a side note...I dont know how you didnt have money left over in GH2...I have over $11,000 left and I still have a bit more I think I can earn.

You didn't buy everything yet then. When you earn all the possible money and buy everything possible, there's no money left.

[Bakkster_Man]

You didn't buy everything yet then. When you earn all the possible money and buy everything possible, there's no money left.

Unless you played on multiple difficulty levels. Then you only need to buy each unlock once for multiplayer/quickplay.

[Smidget]

I was hoping they'd do the economy like Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance, because it has so many parallels to Guitar Hero, and because it was such a fun piece of the game...The tokens were then redeemable at "the krypt" (essentially a huge unlock store). The store was a matrix of roughly 675 unlockable coffins. Each coffin had a price on it, and paying the token price unlocked the contents.


Man that system is great. If you have a good amount of tokens saved up you can spend an hour or more messing with unlocks.

[Magnet]

I completed GHII on all difficulties, bought everything, and have no money left. That was my experience with the PS2 version of the game. If someone else had a different experience, I'd guess that they didn't complete (and 5-star) all of the difficulties and buy the guitars unlocked only for completing certain difficulty levels. If they did do that and still have money left over, I can't imagine why unless the order of completing the difficulty levels has some impact.

It worked out evenly for me regardless.

[Bakkster_Man]

I completed GHII on all difficulties, bought everything, and have no money left. That was my experience with the PS2 version of the game. If someone else had a different experience, I'd guess that they didn't complete (and 5-star) all of the difficulties and buy the guitars unlocked only for completing certain difficulty levels. If they did do that and still have money left over, I can't imagine why unless the order of completing the difficulty levels has some impact.

It worked out evenly for me regardless.

You have money left over if you don't keep buying the same guitars for each difficulty level. You still get them for multi/quick play, just not for the other difficulties.

[McDeezy]

I still like the idea of buying new things online with the money. But I just realized that it isn't real money and that wont fly well. HAH