Protesting the war? Not anymore.

[lithiumkc]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6377



"I have issued an Executive Order blocking property of persons determined to have committed, or to pose a significant risk of committing, an act or acts of violence that have the purpose or effect of threatening the peace or stability of Iraq or the Government of Iraq or undermining efforts to promote economic reconstruction and political reform in Iraq or to provide humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people."

In substance, under this executive order, opposing the war becomes an illegal act.

Yet another step to authoritorian rule.

Thoughts? How the **** does Bush get away with these executive orders?! And how is the american public so blind? This repeals free speech and breaks the 1st, 4th and 5th amendments.


New legislation signed on May 9, 2007, declares that in the event of a "catastrophic event", the President can take total control over the government and the country, bypassing all other levels of government at the state, federal, local, territorial and tribal levels, and thus ensuring total unprecedented dictatorial power .

The National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive , which also places the Secretary of Homeland Security in charge of domestic "security", was signed earlier this month without the approval or oversight of Congress and seemingly supercedes the National Emergency Act which allows the president to declare a national emergency but also requires that Congress have the authority to "modify, rescind, or render dormant" such emergency authority if it believes the president has acted inappropriately.

You guys are in for a terrible, terrible surprise if Bush has his way. And Canada too, with the SPP looming. It's about time for your country to stop watching the news, and start reading up on the internet about this sort of thing, because as of right now your constitution is basically rendered moot.

At any point in time, if a "terrorist act" occurs (Staged by the government or not.. seriously, don't put it past them) Bush can enact complete dictatorial control over the USA, initiate martial law, and your rights and freedoms will not just be oppressed like now, but completely GONE.

Open your eyes, guys, and feed your head.

[Julio-Claudius]

I really hope someone assassainates him.

[lithiumkc]

http://www.care2.com/news/go/456265

Vague new bill passed that allows surveillance on anybody, anywhere, be it through the warrantless wiretapping that they can already do or through physically searching you and your home.

If at any point they declare that searching you will aide them in finding a "terrorist" in the country or ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, they can do anything they want with you.

Spread this news, the internet is the best way to do it and the news isn't going to cover any of it.

[Julio-Claudius]

http://www.care2.com/news/go/456265

Vague new bill passed that allows surveillance on anybody, anywhere, be it through the warrantless wiretapping that they can already do or through physically searching you and your home.

If at any point they declare that searching you will aide them in finding a "terrorist" in the country or ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, they can do anything they want with you.

Spread this news, the internet is the best way to do it and the news isn't going to cover any of it.

If you aren't doing anything against the law, you have nothing to worry about.

[lithiumkc]

The Timeline to Tyranny
Ten advances towards the end of freedom and privacy in the United States


The top ten advances towards tyranny in the United States during the tenure of the Bush administration, from the Patriot Act to the latest expansion of the illegal eavesdropping surveillance program.

1) The USA Patriot Act

The party line often heard from Neo-Cons in their attempts to defend the Patriot Act either circulate around the contention that the use of the Patriot Act has never been abused or that it isn't being used against American citizens. Here is an archive of articles that disproves both of these fallacies.

The Patriot Act was the boiler plate from which all subsequent attacks on the Constitution were formed.

2) Total Information Awareness

"Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and medical prescription you fill, every Web site you visit and e-mail you send or receive, every academic grade you receive, every bank deposit you make, every trip you book and every event you attend ? all these transactions and communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as "a virtual, centralized grand database," infamously wrote New York Times writer William Safire , announcing the birth of Total Information Awareness, a kind of Echelon on steroids introduced a year after 9/11.

TIA was not canned, it was simply removed from the newspaper, renamed and continues to operate under a guise of different programs.

(Article continues below)

3) USA Patriot Act II

The second Patriot Act was a mirror image of powers that Julius Caesar and Adolf Hitler gave themselves. Whereas the First Patriot Act only gutted the First, Third, Fourth and Fifth Amendments, and seriously damaged the Seventh and the Tenth, the Second Patriot Act reorganized the entire Federal government as well as many areas of state government under the dictatorial control of the Justice Department, the Office of Homeland Security and the FEMA NORTHCOM military command.

The Domestic Security Enhancement Act 2003, also known as the Second Patriot Act is by its very structure the definition of dictatorship.

4) Military Commissions Act

Slamming the final nail in the coffin of everything America used to stand for, the boot-licking U.S. Senate gave President Bush the legal authority to abduct and sexually mutilate American citizens and American children in the name of the war on terror in passing the Military Commissions Act and officially ending Habeas Corpus.

There is nothing in the "detainee" legislation that protects American citizens from being kidnapped by their own government and tortured.

The New York Times stated that the legislation introduced, "A dangerously broad definition of ?illegal enemy combatant? in the bill could subject legal residents of the United States, as well as foreign citizens living in their own countries, to summary arrest and indefinite detention with no hope of appeal. The president could give the power to apply this label to anyone he wanted."

Yale Law Professor Bruce Ackerman states in the L.A. Times , "The compromise legislation....authorizes the president to seize American citizens as enemy combatants, even if they have never left the United States. And once thrown into military prison, they cannot expect a trial by their peers or any other of the normal protections of the Bill of Rights."

Similarly, law Professor Marty Lederman explain s: "this [subsection (ii) of the definition of 'unlawful enemy combatant'] means that if the Pentagon says you're an unlawful enemy combatant -- using whatever criteria they wish -- then as far as Congress, and U.S. law, is concerned, you are one, whether or not you have had any connection to 'hostilities' at all."

5) John Warner Defense Authorization Act

The Bush Junta quietly "tooled up" to utilize the U.S. military in engaging American dissidents after the next big crisis, with a frightening and overlooked piece of legislation that was passed alongside the Military Commissions Act, the John Warner Defense Authorization Act , which greased the skids for armed confrontation and abolishes posse comitatus.

6) Illegal Domestic Wiretapping Program

"Months after the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush secretly authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States to search for evidence of terrorist activity without the court-approved warrants ordinarily required for domestic spying, according to government officials," reported the New York Times on December 16, 2005

The secret warrantless spying program was a complete violation of both the 4th Amendment and FISA.

7) Expansion of Illegal Domestic Wiretapping Program

Not content with now being lawfully allowed to force ISP's and cell phone companies to turn over data about customers without a warrant, the Bush administration is pushing for even more authority to spy on American citizens, and has already been handed a 6 month window within which to impose any surveillance policy it likes, and for that program to remain legal in perpetuity.

The administration has a 6 month window in which to impose any surveillance program it chooses and that program will go unchallenged and remain legally binding in perpetuity - it cannot be revoked. Under the definitions of the legislation, Bush has been granted absolute dictator status for a minimum of 6 months.

If he so chooses, and so long as it's implemented within the next half year, Bush could build a database of every website visited by every American - and the policy would be immune from Congressional challenge even after the "surveillance gap" legislation reaches its sunset

8) Martial Law Presidential Decision Directive 51

New legislation signed on May 9, 2007, declares that in the event of a "catastrophic event", the President can take total control over the government and the country, bypassing all other levels of government at the state, federal, local, territorial and tribal levels, and thus ensuring total unprecedented dictatorial power .

The National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive , which also places the Secretary of Homeland Security in charge of domestic "security", was signed earlier this month without the approval or oversight of Congress and seemingly supercedes the National Emergency Act which allows the president to declare a national emergency but also requires that Congress have the authority to "modify, rescind, or render dormant" such emergency authority if it believes the president has acted inappropriately.

9) Destruction of the Dollar

Former World Bank Vice President, Chief Economist and Nobel Prize winner Joseph Stiglitz has predicted a global economic crash within 24 months - unless the current downturn is successfully managed. Asked if the situation was being properly handled Stiglitz emphatically responded "no,".

Stiglitz caused controversy in October 2001 when he exposed rampant corruption within the IMF and blew the whistle on their nefarious methods of inducing countries to fall under their debt before stripping them of sovereignty and hollowing out their economies. Stiglitz agreed that the process of hijacking and looting key infrastructure on the part of the IMF and World Bank, as an offshoot of predatory globalization, had now moved from the third world to Europe, the United States and Canada.

10) Amnesty & The North American Union

The open plan to merge the US with Mexico and Canada and create a Pan American Union has long been a Globalist brainchild but its very real and prescient implementation on behalf of the Council on Foreign Relations has finally been reported on by mainstream news outlets.

The framework on which the American Union is being pegged is the NAFTA Super Highway, a four football-fields-wide leviathan that stretches from southern Mexico through the US up to Montreal Canada .Coupled with Bush's blanket amnesty program , the Pan American Union is the final jigsaw piece for the total dismantling of America as we know it.

[lithiumkc]

If you aren't doing anything against the law, you have nothing to worry about.

Wrong.

Protesting the war, or as I like to call it "Freedom of Speech" is now against the law.

The law is whatever Bush makes it at this point. And he can bend and twist ANYTHING to make it look like you're a terrorist. It's not about being afraid he's going to break down your door, its the fact that he can do it to your own countrymen, at any point in time, unconstitutionally.

Your government is evil. That's all I can say.

[Julio-Claudius]

Wrong.

Protesting the war, or as I like to call it "Freedom of Speech" is now against the law.

The law is whatever Bush makes it at this point. And he can bend and twist ANYTHING to make it look like you're a terrorist. It's not about being afraid he's going to break down your door, its the fact that he can do it to your own countrymen, at any point in time, unconstitutionally.

Your government is evil. That's all I can say.
Do you live in the United States? If you don't, don't worry about us. We can take care of ourselves. Mind your own damn business. If you live here and don't like it, than leave. It's as simple as that.

[lithiumkc]

You haven't proven that you can take care of yourselves so far. Truthfully, did you know about anything at all I've posted in this thread? I'm going to go out on a limb and say you didn't.

It's becoming MY business because of the SPP/NAU. Harper, Calderon, and Bush have been meeting regularly and are moving towards a North American Union (Think europe).

Your military is already allowed to cross the border at any time.

NORTHCOM is NORAD under a new name, that one was snuck in as well.

They're planning bulk water exports from Canada.. That's also bull****

And all of this goes on behind closed doors. We demand information and public/parliamentary scrutiny and they decline it. So don't act like it's not affecting me, IT IS. Bush could militarize the entire continent and lock down your whole country whenever he wants, so excuse me for giving a **** about you and your people and trying to warn you of the disgusting injustices that are passing as "executive order".

[LZ_Reborn]

Do you live in the United States? If you don't, don't worry about us. We can take care of ourselves. Mind your own damn business. If you live here and don't like it, than leave. It's as simple as that.

not the proper attitude my friend is all I have to say....

this is a pretty heavy subject and wouldn't discuss it here...eyes everywhere... if you know what I mean....I don't know maybe I'm just paranoid....

[freakonate]

Ahh. Great post. I don't know if it will be too popular on this site (lol) but what the hell.
Lithiumkc is right. Put down the controller for a while and read up on this stuff. It's fascinating to say the least. But since lithiumkc failed to post any links, here are a few of my personal favorites that are sure to blow your mind.

www.rense.com
www.infowars.com
www.davidicke.com
www.disinfo.com
www.counterpunch.org

[Julio-Claudius]

Bush is only going to be in office for one more year. Then he will leave. If he doesn't, other people in the government will get pissed. Or maybe somebody will grow some balls and kill the man.

Democrats will probably rule the government after the 2008 election. Our country hates President Bush. We really do. And if he gains the amount of power you have described, then we will make sure he leaves.

Jeez, cynical conspiracy theorists are annoying.

[lithiumkc]

I was going to post more links but I wanted to at least see if I'd get flamed first. Some people label me conspiracy theorist lately, which is quite hilarious to me when all I do is relay factual information about bills, legislation, executive orders passed and the repercussions they can have.

It should be popular not only on this site, but everywhere. This information is slipping by most everybody and it needs to be heard. The news media will provide nothing, nothing at all.\

Edit:
Jeez, cynical conspiracy theorists are annoying. case in point. This is not a CONSPIRACY, it's whats HAPPENING.

[IbanezBassist_v2]

Don't you know any better, there is no more freedom of speech.

"We don't have a choice, anymore anyway" - Mudvayne - Choices

I honestly am so tired of hearing the bull**** that I don't care anymore. Bush is only going to be in office a few more years. Hopefully somone will be able to bring some stability back. Other than that I've no comment.

[Julio-Claudius]

Don't you know any better, there is no more freedom of speech.

"We don't have a choice, anymore anyway" - Mudvayne - Choices

I honestly am so tired of hearing the bull**** that I don't care anymore. Bush is only going to be in office a few more years. Hopefully somone will be able to bring some stability back. Other than that I've no comment.
One more year.

[lithiumkc]

I can only hope that democracy prevails. Really. Because as it stands now, Bush has a completely open door to authoritorian rule. Whether or not the people or the government can take him down if he does so, guess we'd have to wait and see.

But the fact is, your current government could destroy democracy at the dawn of the next terrorist act, and THAT is a truth. Repeat of 9/11 -> State of emergency -> Martial law -> Democracy dead. He's got the power with the order he's passed, just read and that's plainly obvious. Whether or not he chooses to exert this power is up to the future.

[Julio-Claudius]

I can only hope that democracy prevails. Really. Because as it stands now, Bush has a completely open door to authoritorian rule. Whether or not the people or the government can take him down if he does so, guess we'd have to wait and see.

But the fact is, your current government could destroy democracy at the dawn of the next terrorist act, and THAT is a truth. He's got the power with the order he's passed, just read and that's plainly obvious. Whether or not he chooses to exert this power is up to the future.
What "next terrorist act?" Didn't you know that all of those are inside jobs? :rolleyes:

[Julio-Claudius]

Edit: case in point. This is not a CONSPIRACY, it's whats HAPPENING.
No, it's speculation of what MIGHT happen. We are not under authoritarian rule. Not yet, at least.

[lithiumkc]

No, it's speculation of what MIGHT happen. We are not under authoritarian rule. Not yet, at least.
Yes, but the information I'm giving and the links I provide are what IS HAPPENING. It's news nobody hears.

And the fact is, like I said, Bush has the ability to enact that rule at any time. This is not a conspiracy theory, it's fact based on legislation he's passed.

Conspiracy theory = "9/11 was an inside job"
Fact = "Bush has outlawed war protests, allowed hismelf to warrantlessly wiretap, can have total control over the country and enact martial law if another terrorist act occurs, and can do surveillance on anybody at any time if it helps catch a terrorist anywhere in the world'."

Theres a big difference bud.

[Julio-Claudius]

Yes, but the information I'm giving and the links I provide are what IS HAPPENING. It's news nobody hears.

And the fact is, like I said, Bush has the ability to enact that rule at any time. This is not a conspiracy theory, it's fact based on legislation he's passed.

Conspiracy theory = "9/11 was an inside job"
Fact = "Bush has outlawed war protests, allowed hismelf to warrantlessly wiretap, can have total control over the country and enact martial law if another terrorist act occurs, and can do surveillance on anybody at any time if it helps catch a terrorist anywhere in the world'."

Theres a big difference bud.

If you're really that pissed at Bush, why don't you move to Europe and stop ****ing complaining?

[freakonate]

What "next terrorist act?" Didn't you know that all of those are inside jobs? :rolleyes:

I wouldn't be so quick to blow that off. Everything is going as planned.... The inmates have taken control of the asylum!

Bush = President for life

Everybody duck and cover!

[lithiumkc]

If you're really that pissed at Bush, why don't you move to Europe and stop ****ing complaining?

You have a really ****ty attitude bud, and I'm not looking to argue with you about this. If you don't recognize the injustices that are happening, if you don't give a **** about your constitution, then so be it. Continue to be another sheeple and if anything does happen I'm sure you'll remember this thread and the day you wrote off somebody trying to help you.

Why don't I move to Europe? Because I happen to like Canada, and I'm not going to run away in the face of tyranny, which is basically what's happening in your country right now. I'd rather fight for my country and my rights than run away. Canada's not as bad, but Harpers almost looking to change that. I'd much rather inform, educate people about what's happening so that you can take a stand about having your constitution being **** ALL OVER. You obviously don't grasp the importance of it if you think it's no big deal.

If it weren't for people fighting back and public dissent, he could do anything, and that's a fact. So don't bother arguing with me or saying I have no right to speak up, because you my friend are naive.

[IbanezBassist_v2]

If you're really that pissed at Bush, why don't you move to Europe and stop ****ing complaining?

KC doesn't even live in the US.

No offense KC. But I just love how everyone outside of our country runs their opinions like diarrhea of the mouth when it comes to the US, but doesn't feel the need to critique their own. Its not your problem, why worry.

[lithiumkc]

It's not just me. Most of this information is coming from your countrymen. I am merely relaying information because I think it's the right thing to do. Again, I'm not speaking opinion so much as I'm relaying FACT. I'd expect anybody to do the same for me should Harper decide to pass a whole assload of legislation on his own and the newsmedia didn't report it, especially if it infringed on my rights and freedoms and broke the charter of rights.

I'd be pissed off to learn about it too late. I'd wonder why nobody told me.

[illusion856]

im glad you posted this stuff. i'm obviously not jumping to any conclusions about what COULD happen or what bush COULD do but I can honestly say I didnt know anything about what you posted in that 1-10 list. just makes me want his ass gone even more now.

[Julio-Claudius]

KC doesn't even live in the US.

No offense KC. But I just love how everyone outside of our country runs their opinions like diarrhea of the mouth when it comes to the US, but doesn't feel the need to critique their own. Its not your problem, why worry.
^^^ this I find true.

[Julio-Claudius]

You have a really ****ty attitude bud, and I'm not looking to argue with you about this. If you don't recognize the injustices that are happening, if you don't give a **** about your constitution, then so be it. Continue to be another sheeple and if anything does happen I'm sure you'll remember this thread and the day you wrote off somebody trying to help you.

Why don't I move to Europe? Because I happen to like Canada, and I'm not going to run away in the face of tyranny, which is basically what's happening in your country right now. I'd rather fight for my country and my rights than run away. Canada's not as bad, but Harpers almost looking to change that. I'd much rather inform, educate people about what's happening so that you can take a stand about having your constitution being **** ALL OVER. You obviously don't grasp the importance of it if you think it's no big deal.

If it weren't for people fighting back and public dissent, he could do anything, and that's a fact. So don't bother arguing with me or saying I have no right to speak up, because you my friend are naive.
How aboot you calm down?:D

[lithiumkc]

But you MUST jump to conclusions on what could happen.

This legislation literally means that he could start martial law, and be the dictator of your country at any given point in time. There is absolutely no denying that, it's now LEGAL. All it will take is a single spark and BAM, we need to lock down the country for security purposes.

All of these wiretappings and surveillance are total BS. Theyre not making you more secure, they're invading your privacy and repealing your rights and freedoms as American citizens. Why more people don't know about this, I have no clue, it's mostly due to the newsmedia failing to cover it (Hmmmm, wonder why) combined with everybody worried about themselves/*** marriage/the war in Iraq.

Meanwhile, Bush has free run to make any law he wants and call it executive order.

And I get called a conspiracy theorist for trying to help you see the forest through the trees.

Why would he even legislate ANY of what he's legislated if he's not looking to make a move? WHY?

A good example is after Katrina. The military has NEVER been allowed to police freely, that was the first time in basically FOREVER that they actually roamed the streets like police and quelled public dissent. Imagine that on a wide scale. They're already trained to do it.

And I am calm. I'm just distraught that there are still people like you out there who are completely unaware of what's going on, even when presented blatant evidence SHOWING YOU what's going on. I literally cannot understand how somebody can have your state of mind when they're enlightened as to what's happening.. It's incomprehensible to me. People bust their asses to uncover the truth about what happens and you **** all over it and poo poo it all away.

I'd rather be labelled a conspiracy theorist now than naive later. That's all.

[whofan]

Lithiumkc, from your post you seem to be a resident of Canada. I am glad I'm not the only one worried about our neighbours to the south. Political apathy seems to be at an all-time high down there (and up here to an extent as well) as the legislation passed points out. Nobody seems to know/care what is being done to the Constitution and political framework down there.

I have always been cynical about Americans and their claims to be "the land of opportunity" and the "land of freedom". Now I'm downright scared of what is happening there. Haven't people learned anything from history? Hitler did not come to complete power overnight, instead he built it in steps, eerily close to what Bush is doing now. Checks and Balances MUST be kept in place at ALL costs. If one man, or a group, start taking away those checks and balances only dictatorship will follow.

Does anyone here honestly believe that when someone new comes in they will repeal all of these acts? No, it's so easy to give power but so difficult to take it away from yourself. I would be VERY surprised (and very relieved) to see any of these acts repealed when a new president is elected (If one is, God only knows what GB is capable of).

Julio-Claudius, I don't believe you understand the implications behind what is being said here. All Bush needs to do to stay in power longer is to manufacture a "crisis" of some kind and declare himself above congress and law itself. Think about the possibilities behind this for a few minutes and you may see just how scary a thought this actually is. He could have himself declared supreme dictator at the drop of a hat.

He has control of the media already (compare a CNN broadcast to a BBC news broadcast) and thus his own personal spin doctors.

This is all happening in the real world right now and is not some conspiracy theory.

Oh, and moving to Europe is not an option for some of us. Besides, why would I want to leave my home in the best Country in the world because of something that the American people should be paying attention to.

[Julio-Claudius]

And I get called a conspiracy theorist for trying to help you see the forest through the trees.

And I get called naive for not liking some show-boating Canadian telling me what to think. :mad:

[whofan]

KC doesn't even live in the US.

No offense KC. But I just love how everyone outside of our country runs their opinions like diarrhea of the mouth when it comes to the US, but doesn't feel the need to critique their own. Its not your problem, why worry.

I'm sorry, I can't keep quiet about this particular comment. What the U.S. does DIRECTLY effects the rest of the world, especially Canada. Keep that in mind. Besides, MANY Canadians critique their government, we're quite politically informed up here (apathetic, yes, but informed). So please, don't comment on things you don't seem to understand

[Julio-Claudius]

I'm sorry, I can't keep quiet about this particular comment. What the U.S. does DIRECTLY effects the rest of the world, especially Canada. Keep that in mind. Besides, MANY Canadians critique their government, we're quite politically informed up here (apathetic, yes, but informed). So please, don't comment on things you don't seem to understand

I don't think that comment was directed specifically at Canadians.

[whofan]

Regardless, the point is that what the U.S. does does have a Direct impact on the rest of the world

[Julio-Claudius]

Regardless, the point is that what the U.S. does does have a Direct impact on the rest of the world
Yeah, the rest of the world is going to invade Iraq too.

[tucsonovernite]

Hey this isn't an appropriate forum to call for the assasination of ANY elected officials....I mean how trashy is that. I doubt you'll find many Bush supporters on the Rock Band forum so unless y'all like the circle jerk might as well lock this one:)

[Julio-Claudius]

Hey this isn't an appropriate forum to call for the assasination of ANY elected officials....I mean how trashy is that. I doubt you'll find many Bush supporters on the Rock Band forum so unless y'all like the circle jerk might as well lock this one:)
Nah, this hasn't turned into a flame war.... yet.

[lithiumkc]

And I get called naive for not liking some show-boating Canadian telling me what to think. :mad:

You think I'm SHOWBOATING? HOW? Or telling you what to think? HOW?

My god.. Just stop it. This has nothing to do with COUNTRIES, it has to do with genuinely caring about other human beings. Don't make this out to be anything else, because it isn't.

[illusion856]

for once i'd like to see people be able to talk about political things without it eventually turning into a name calling contest // argument. I've still yet to see that happen in my lifetime lol.


But you MUST jump to conclusions on what could happen.

I just kinda meant I'm not going to get crazy and start thinking bush is the reincarnation of hitler or anything you know?

wait a minute... he is!

[lithiumkc]

I was not looking to start a flame war. I was looking to get people informed, to get them reading up on what the media will NEVER report. If everybody had a look past the TV, there is almost no way they wouldn't put 2 and 2 together here.

I have TONS of websites detailing what bills and executive decisions Bush has ordered, the organizations operating behind closed doors, none of which you will EVER hear about unless somebody directly tells you, believe me.

Please. Read. Educate yourself. Do not take this lightly, or you're really going to be sorry in the end. It's frustrating as **** to be written off so easily when you can see what's really happening, more frustrating than you can believe.

"Hey ed, you need to get out of your truck, I watched a guy plant a bomb in there!"
"Thats preposterous, I'm not getting out, nobody would do that"
"No seriously, I watched him do it! Look at this video! Please!!"
"Shutup, I don't believe you"

Boom.

[Julio-Claudius]

You think I'm SHOWBOATING? HOW? Or telling you what to think? HOW?It was a Family Guy refernce... calm the **** down....

[illusion856]

It was a Family Guy refernce... calm the **** down....

damn i should have caught that one. went right over my head.

[whofan]

Those who don't watch Family Guy quite a bit wouldn't get it. The problem is, and I'm feeling it to, is how easily you dismiss even the possibility that what is being said here might be somewhat true.

You're just essentially saying "the situation will solve itself". Not a good attitude to take towards these kinds of issues, things can go very wrong, very quickly and when you realize, it's too late. All the OP is attempting to do is to transmit data to those who wouldn't otherwise have access to it and asking you to consider the implications, is that so hard to do?

[ThePaska]

There are usually a few topics to steer clear of when having discussions, because they just turn into arguments or "flame wars', examples of these include Religion and Politics.

This thread was bound to turn into a "flame war" from the start. It's hard not to argue with such heavily heated and opinionated topics.

[beerman]

I'm sorry, I can't keep quiet about this particular comment. What the U.S. does DIRECTLY effects the rest of the world, especially Canada. Keep that in mind. Besides, MANY Canadians critique their government, we're quite politically informed up here (apathetic, yes, but informed). So please, don't comment on things you don't seem to understand


KC doesn't even live in the US.

No offense KC. But I just love how everyone outside of our country runs their opinions like diarrhea of the mouth when it comes to the US, but doesn't feel the need to critique their own. Its not your problem, why worry.

You'll have to excuse Brandon. He's from Branson, Missouri, which is closer to the Merry Ol' Land of Oz than to the US.

[Phiromos]

Im scared to live here...land of opportunity my ass...bush is the beast...the devil incarnate...just like Hitler and Bonapart were....he won by an accident in the system..like both hitler and bonapart....waged a war with false accusaitions...red this http://www.bushisantichrist.com/

[Julio-Claudius]

There are usually a few topics to steer clear of when having discussions, because they just turn into arguments or "flame wars', examples of these include Religion and Politics.

This thread was bound to turn into a "flame war" from the start. It's hard not to argue with such heavily heated and opinionated topics.
Yeah, no more polotical or religious drama plz...

[lithiumkc]

See, the problem is that everybody is so anally PC that they're worried about saying ANYTHING that people will have different opinions on. Well, sorry. Sometimes feelings get hurt when the truth comes out, but it's vital for the greater good that the truth be told regardless of some peoples political affiliations.

There's no reason for people to get mad about the articles I posted. If they get mad, they're essentially getting mad at their own president for making the legislation in the first place. I'm just making it clear what's happening. It's not like I'm lying or speaking in opinions. This is HAPPENING. It has to be known, too bad if people get offended, these are very dangerous being tread and it's more important that people at least have the opportunity to read about it than to be content watching the news and missing it all.

[IbanezBassist_v2]

Speculation! Yeah this all could happen! The world could also end tomorrow. Forget what you may think will happen and just roll with the punches. **** IT ALL! I find the statements "You have to believe this cause it could happen". So what there is alot of **** that could happen.



You'll have to excuse Brandon. He's from Branson, Missouri, which is closer to the Merry Ol' Land of Oz than to the US.

Leave it to you not to have anything intelligent to add to the convo.

[IbanezBassist_v2]

for once i'd like to see people be able to talk about political things without it eventually turning into a name calling contest // argument. I've still yet to see that happen in my lifetime lol.

Thank you very much! You are absolutely right. Everyone is going to have a different opinion that contradicts someone else's (same with religion). And the fact that some fool (whofan) can come in here and tell me to stay quiet while he embellishes his opinion is complete and utter idiocy.

[Plasma]

Speculation! Yeah this all could happen! The world could also end tomorrow. Forget what you may think will happen and just roll with the punches. **** IT ALL! I find the statements "You have to believe this cause it could happen". So what there is alot of **** that could happen.

But if you could prevent said happenings, what the **** wouldn't you?

[IbanezBassist_v2]

But if you could prevent said happenings, what the **** wouldn't you?

How cute....you think you could make a difference. Our government is one of the most powerful and corrupt bodies in the world. There is nothing that can be done.

Just like someones belief in religion. At one point, there will be a Rapture or end (depending on your preference). There is nothing that can be done to stop it. Its a part of evolution of life. Its going to happen sometime. Embrace inevitability.

[WingsOfSteel]

Im scared to live here...land of opportunity my ass...bush is the beast...the devil incarnate...just like Hitler and Bonapart were....he won by an accident in the system..like both hitler and bonapart....waged a war with false accusaitions...red this http://www.bushisantichrist.com/

Please, tell me when Bush did anything even approaching what Hitler did.

P.S. Your spelling contributes quite well to your believability.

[lithiumkc]

That's a weak point of view in my opinion. If enough people know about this and the word is spread, they won't stand for it. If it goes unnoticed up to the point in which it happens, of course it's gonna happen.

You might not think underdogs can make a difference, but I believe they can. Sorry I don't want to EMBRACE my country being integrated into yours, sorry I don't embrace your militarys ability to walk all over my soil at the drop of a hat. Sorry I cherish my rights and my freedom of speech, and respect yours. Not everybody just likes to sit around and watch it happen, regardless of if it's inevitable or not, I wouldn't feel good about myself knowing all this and sitting around not letting people know.

At the very least, the internet is the best way to spread information, TRUE information now.

Maybe this is the beginning of the "Rapture" if you're inclined to believe religion. Microchipping is becoming a distinct possibility. They're testing it in China. I'm personally not monotheist, but I don't like the idea of my freedom being infringed for money and control, which is all this is. The death of democracy comes soon.

[IbanezBassist_v2]

I love it that everyone is posting different links of other peoples thoughts and opinions, yet doesn't have one of their own that doesn't contain source from someone Else's glorified bull****.


I for one am Agnostic, so I'm not entirely sure on what to believe. I do know that there is an end coming that we will all have to "enjoy". Whether it be divine or some political power.

No one is going to halt the end times. If this is it, so be it. Why continue to dwell. Enjoy whats left.

[Julio-Claudius]

I love it that everyone is posting different links of other peoples thoughts and opinions, yet doesn't have one of their own that doesn't contain source from someone Else's glorified bull****.


I for one am Agnostic, so I'm not entirely sure on what to believe. I do know that there is an end coming that we will all have to "enjoy". Whether it be divine or some political power.

No one is going to halt the end times. If this is it, so be it. Why continue to dwell. Enjoy whats left.

I tend to believe that the end of times has less to do with the spiritual, but more with humanity destroying itself. Nuclear war, anyone?:)

NUKULAR WOAR ANY1????

[whofan]

Thank you very much! You are absolutely right. Everyone is going to have a different opinion that contradicts someone else's (same with religion). And the fact that some fool (whofan) can come in here and tell me to stay quiet while he embellishes his opinion is complete and utter idiocy.

Excuse me sir. May I ask what warrants this personal attack? I came in to state a point, a point that you claimed was not true. The fact of the matter is that what the U.S. does (because it is such a huge player)DOES have an effect on the rest of the world, whether you want to admit it or not.

Just because you do not wish to agree with it does not make it your way.

Please spare me your personal attacks and stay on topic. If you wish to attack me, attack the arguements I put forward. Or maybe it's because I make such good points that you can not attack them and therefore must resort to personal attacks?

[whofan]

While Bush most certainly is not anywhere near Hitler, he does have a surprising lack of respect for the ideals he claims to uphold.

Guantanamo Bay anyone? Perhaps THE biggest human rights violation in modern history (i.e. since WWII). How does the Government address the Constitutional challenges? Oh, it's not on U.S. soil. This is despite the fact that it's run by Americans, for American "enemy combatants" and sanctioned by the American government. How is this not linked to America again?

Mr. Bush again and again finds ways around and justifications for legislation and facilities that are very unconstitutional.

This is not an opinion, this is a fact. Don't believe me? Look up the Constitution, the read ANY news story on Guantanamo.

[Julio-Claudius]

While Bush most certainly is not anywhere near Hitler, he does have a surprising lack of respect for the ideals he claims to uphold.

Guantanamo Bay anyone? Perhaps THE biggest human rights violation in modern history (i.e. since WWII). How does the Government address the Constitutional challenges? Oh, it's not on U.S. soil. This is despite the fact that it's run by Americans, for American "enemy combatants" and sanctioned by the American government. How is this not linked to America again?

Mr. Bush again and again finds ways around and justifications for legislation and facilities that are very unconstitutional.

This is not an opinion, this is a fact. Don't believe me? Look up the Constitution, the read ANY news story on Guantanamo.

Have you ever read "Animal Farm" by George Orwell? I'm starting to see some erie similarities....

[IbanezBassist_v2]

Excuse me sir. May I ask what warrants this personal attack? I came in to state a point, a point that you claimed was not true. The fact of the matter is that what the U.S. does (because it is such a huge player)DOES have an effect on the rest of the world, whether you want to admit it or not.

Just because you do not wish to agree with it does not make it your way.

Please spare me your personal attacks and stay on topic. If you wish to attack me, attack the arguements I put forward. Or maybe it's because I make such good points that you can not attack them and therefore must resort to personal attacks?

Ah, but this is where you are wrong, SIR. You stated that I need to remain quite because of your belief of my being unaware or uneducated to the topic. So in turn I responded to your statement.

Your post was directed to me and as a result you get my post. Be glad it was fool. I did have some other rather colorful choiced words. Then I thought what is the nicest way to get this across. Not seeing it? Go back and read it again then pretend that your post was directed to you. See if you can fathom that.....

[dragula]

hmm, i've played MGS2, so i already know that the president is just a puppet to a greater power. Hah, but seriously, this has to be true, cause I would seriously kill myself if Bush was able to 'fool/mislead/trick' the country all by himself. That guy couldn't find cleverness, if it was highlighted on his index cards...or a teleprompter.

[Julio-Claudius]

hmm, i've played MGS2, so i already know that the president is just a puppet to a greater power. Hah, but seriously, this has to be true, cause I would seriously kill myself if Bush was able to 'fool/mislead/trick' the country all by himself. That guy couldn't find cleverness, if it was highlighted on his index cards...or a teleprompter.

So you believe in the Illuminati?

[Plasma]

How cute....you think you could make a difference. Our government is one of the most powerful and corrupt bodies in the world. There is nothing that can be done.

Just like someones belief in religion. At one point, there will be a Rapture or end (depending on your preference). There is nothing that can be done to stop it. Its a part of evolution of life. Its going to happen sometime. Embrace inevitability.

"We're going to die and I can't be bothered to get off my lazy ass to do anything about it, so you better not try either!"


That is one of the most ******ed counter I have ever seen. "It can't be done, I cannot be bothered by reality, logic, or facts!"

[IbanezBassist_v2]

hmm, i've played MGS2, so i already know that the president is just a puppet to a greater power. Hah, but seriously, this has to be true, cause I would seriously kill myself if Bush was able to 'fool/mislead/trick' the country all by himself. That guy couldn't find cleverness, if it was highlighted on his index cards...or a teleprompter.

Nice post. And thats what alot of people, especially non Americans, bash the president. He is the one that delivers the message, yet rarely the one who makes the decisions. I blame his advisors, they give him the "greater vision". You are absolutely right about the puppet idea. Someone with greater power is pulling his strings.

[IbanezBassist_v2]

"We're going to die and I can't be bothered to get off my lazy ass to do anything about it, so you better not try either!"


That is one of the most ******ed counter I have ever seen. "It can't be done, I cannot be bothered by reality, logic, or facts!"

Perhaps so, is your post suppose to intimidate me by your ability to sound like you are educated. Alabama? Nuff said.

Do what you wish to better yourself by defending the very country that ****s on you everytime it can. Enjoy your fruitless efforts.

Secondly, you don't know a damn thing about me so why don't you watch your mouth before spouting off your cheap incestrail insults.

[Eastwood]

It is all corrupt. If you NEED to make a difference, then run for office. I'm echoing what Ibanez has been stating... It has gotten so ****ed up that I have stopped caring. Sure, the president is bad, but we have had a democractic congress in long enough to do something proactive. The govt. period is dropping the ball.

[newwaytodie]

We Americans, in fact, have no real power. Democracy doesn't exist in the modern world. People who aspire to power, aspire to evil deeds. It is the natural order, evil is in fact the result of a lack of good.

There is no reason for us to do anything radical at this point in time. Maybe some day it will become a full-fledged facist regime... Who can say for sure? But one thing about America is that all the bickering stalls the process so that nothing truly dynamic is ever done.

It doesn't matter if you are a Democrat or a Republican. There are still people who know the difference between right and wrong. The same people who Lithium and Whofan seem to believe do not exist. We will uphold the universal rights of men if called to do so.

Tyranny and oppression have been defeated time, after time, after time. The rights of free men can and will not be denied, there ARE truths that are self-evident. Universal truths, and if those ideas are threatened... No one will stand for it.

My government is a joke, all governments are a failed ideal. There will not ever be a perfect system of rule. Mankind in it's current flawed state does not comprehend the nature of humility and grace that is required for stable methods of civilization. And it never will.

I have nothing to fear of terrorists or conspiring governments. Wars are waged by people with power. Seeing as I have no power, and I am not required to join the military, I am in no real danger. Those who live by the sword, shall perish by the sword.

Fear is the cause of all our suffering. Our government would have us live in a perpetual state of fear, because fear is the way of enslaving the weak. Retaliation for 9-11? Fear. Iraq? Fear. Homeland Security? Fear. All fear... No courage. Real courage would be to face every day with the knowledge that you could really actually die by the hands of a terrorist. Ask yourself, is that really going to happen?

[IbanezBassist_v2]

Bravo! This is the truth and in my eyes, end of discussion.

[Eastwood]

That is one solid post up there...

[tucsonovernite]

seriously? all govt's are a failed ideal? tyranny has been defeated time after time? are you referring specifically to the U.S? I guess that's obvious but of a rather narrow scope....Maybe if you f**ks in Ohio and Florida woulda got off yer asses in the past 2 elections ....seriously...what's with poor people not voting for thier interests?

[Julio-Claudius]

We Americans, in fact, have no real power. Democracy doesn't exist in the modern world. People who aspire to power, aspire to evil deeds. It is the natural order, evil is in fact the result of a lack of good.

There is no reason for us to do anything radical at this point in time. Maybe some day it will become a full-fledged facist regime... Who can say for sure? But one thing about America is that all the bickering stalls the process so that nothing truly dynamic is ever done.

It doesn't matter if you are a Democrat or a Republican. There are still people who know the difference between right and wrong. The same people who Lithium and Whofan seem to believe do not exist. We will uphold the universal rights of men if called to do so.

Tyranny and oppression have been defeated time, after time, after time. The rights of free men can and will not be denied, there ARE truths that are self-evident. Universal truths, and if those ideas are threatened... No one will stand for it.

My government is a joke, all governments are a failed ideal. There will not ever be a perfect system of rule. Mankind in it's current flawed state does not comprehend the nature of humility and grace that is required for stable methods of civilization. And it never will.

I have nothing to fear of terrorists or conspiring governments. Wars are waged by people with power. Seeing as I have no power, and I am not required to join the military, I am in no real danger. Those who live by the sword, shall perish by the sword.

Fear is the cause of all our suffering. Our government would have us live in a perpetual state of fear, because fear is the way of enslaving the weak. Retaliation for 9-11? Fear. Iraq? Fear. Homeland Security? Fear. All fear... No courage. Real courage would be to face every day with the knowledge that you could really actually die by the hands of a terrorist. Ask yourself, is that really going to happen?
Here, we see newwaytodie in a strange environment: not being a douchebag, and making a true and contributive post.:cool:

[Julio-Claudius]

seriously? all govt's are a failed ideal? tyranny has been defeated time after time? are you referring specifically to the U.S? I guess that's obvious but of a rather narrow scope....Maybe if you f**ks in Ohio and Florida woulda got off yer asses in the past 2 elections ....seriously...what's with poor people not voting for thier interests?Maybe because they are not educated in the political system?

[aku_chi]

Mr. lithiumkc, I appreciate your posts in this topic. It is clear that the presidency of the United States of America has exceeded their allotted powers as delegated by the Constitution. I refuse, however, to resort into panic mode. The presidency has both influenced congress (i.e. alien amnesty) and bypassed congress (i.e. Martial Law Presidential Decision Directive 51). In all seven pages of this topic, however, nobody has mentioned the role of the judiciary in the American system of government.

For those of you who do not live in the United States of America or are otherwise unknowledgeable, let me inform you of the often ignored/forgotten third branch of the federal government. The founders of our country built the constitution around the principle of separation of powers. To this end, the first three articles of the US Constitution detail the roles of the three branches of the government: the legislative branch (embodied by Congress), the executive branch (embodied by the presidency), and the judicial branch (embodied by the Federal Court System). Each of these three branches of the Federal Government where given powers to check and balance the powers of the other two. In this way, no one branch could come to dominate the other two and establish a monarchy or oligarchy. Congress has the power to impeach the President and members of the courts. Congress also confirms appointments to the executive and judicial branches. The president, in turn, holds veto powers over legislation passed by Congress and appoints judges to the federal courts.

The federal courts, led by The Supreme Court of the United States of America, have their own powers to balance the other two branches of the federal government. As was established in the landmark case Marbury vs. Madison in 1803, the Supreme Court can strike down a federal law if it violates the United States Constitution (the ultimate law of the land). The Supreme Court can similarly rule an executive order unconstitutional and void. In this way, the judicial branch can ensure that neither the legislative nor executive branches of the federal government exceed their bounds as dictated by the United States Constitution.

So, in the event that my rights, as protected by the United States Constitution, were violated by a law or executive order, I could appeal to the federal courts in an attempt to get that law or executive order stricken. It is important to point out that my rights need to personally be infringed for me to have the jurisprudence to file an appeal. I cannot try to get the Patriot Act deemed unconstitutional because my rights haven't been violated at this time. In the event that they are violated, I would certainly be able to appeal.

In the 200 year history of the United States, there have been a few instances where the presidency has extended its mandated bound. President Lincoln suspended many rights and expanded the power of the federal government during the Civil War. Similarly, President Franklin Roosevelt had hitherto unprecedented power during his three terms. In both instances, our country failed to be thrust into a dictatorship. The judicial branch of the federal government was able to prevent that fate. President Roosevelt tried to influence the courts by "packing" the Supreme Court full of justices sympathetic to his goals by supporting legislation that would increase the number of Supreme Court Justices by three. Congress, which had supported most of his legislature thus far, refused to pass this obvious circumvention of the Constitution.

The only other way to reduce the courts' power is to amend the Constitution in lieu of passing legislature. This process, however, taps into the principles of federalism by requiring the state governments' support. It requires overwhelming support from the state governments (3/4) and Congress (2/3) to get an amendment passed. President Lincoln was able to get around this restriction to pass the thirteenth, fourteenth, and fifteenth amendments by refusing to include the southern states in this process. Many believe that our country is better for it. In any event, Lincoln was assassinated before any possible ambitions for dictatorship were made public.

So, as our country (USA) has withstood worse in the past, I am not overly concerned about the recent legislature and executive orders. They will likely be deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court or forgotten/unused by future presidents. Congress’s plans for alien amnesty are considerably more troubling at the present.

[lithiumkc]

I thank you for the actual INTELLIGENCE shown in your post.. However...


New legislation signed on May 9, 2007, declares that in the event of a "catastrophic event", the President can take total control over the government and the country, bypassing all other levels of government at the state, federal, local, territorial and tribal levels, and thus ensuring total unprecedented dictatorial power

Let me restate
bypassing all other levels of government at the state, federal, local, territorial and tribal levels

The supreme court will do nothing. Congress will do nothing. They would hold no sway if bush were to create this scenario.

I am not in panic mode, but I still believe that your fellow Americans need a jolt of reality once in a while. And reading a lot of what was in this thread should at least make them aware that not everything they see on the news is the news they should know. The more people who realize what's actually going on, the better.

[sweetlips]

What an enjoyable post to see on a fluffy entertainment product's internet forum. This demonstrates we, as a whole, are establishing an opinion and beginning to think for ourselves.

We're witnessing the erosion of the constitution, plain and simple, that cannot be denied. The old flaky brown piece of paper, generated from a revolution, made this country what it is today.

So far, we've not had many problems with this because very few of us has been affected by the new legislation. We are still relatively well fed and secure, with very few threats to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. In other words, we're sitting pretty... for now.

In order for action to come about, there must be drive, and for drive to happen, there must be motivation. This brings us to right now. Since we are "sitting pretty" atop our pyramid of needs, there is very little motivation to cause action.

When the shift occurs, it shall give us motivation, which will drive us to create action. It is at this point, we will realize what we once had (constitution/rights), and what is left today.

“If the success or failure of this Planet, and of Human Beings, depended on how I am and what I do; How would I be? What would I do?”
- Richard Buckminster Fuller, engineer and architect, 1895 – 1983

[Julio-Claudius]

I thank you for the actual INTELLIGENCE shown in your post.. However...



Let me restate

The supreme court will do nothing. Congress will do nothing. They would hold no sway if bush were to create this scenario.

I am not in panic mode, but I still believe that your fellow Americans need a jolt of reality once in a while. And reading a lot of what was in this thread should at least make them aware that not everything they see on the news is the news they should know. The more people who realize what's actually going on, the better.
Well thanks, now I'm not gonna sleep tonight. :mad:

[aku_chi]

New legislation signed on May 9, 2007, declares that in the event of a "catastrophic event", the President can take total control over the government and the country, bypassing all other levels of government at the state, federal, local, territorial and tribal levels, and thus ensuring total unprecedented dictatorial power.

All dictatorships depend upon support from the governed. As we look back in history to famous dictators (Augustus Caesar, Napoleon, Hitler) we see that they had overwhelming public support before they assumed dictatorial powers. Without the support of the public, or at least the military, a dictatorship isn't even possible; the people will not respect the proclaimed authority. As President Bush has abysmal approval ratings, I don't think the citizens of the United States would support him as a dictator. We, as a people, would use physical violence if it were necessary to reject his rule. Dictatorships of fear and terrorism are possible if the dictator has the support of the military but not the citizens. But I don't think that our (USA) armed forces would obey an obvious tyrant in your envisioned situation. You can call it wishful thinking, but I believe in the common sense of the citizens of the United States (as a whole).

I fear more subtle invasions of our rights. Thankfully, my faith in the doctrines of the separation of powers manifest in our constitution alleviates most, but not all, of those fears.

[Julio-Claudius]

All dictatorships depend upon support from the governed. As we look back in history to famous dictators (Augustus Caesar, Napoleon, Hitler) we see that they had overwhelming public support before they assumed dictatorial powers. Without the support of the public, or at least the military, a dictatorship isn't even possible; the people will not respect the proclaimed authority. As President Bush has abysmal approval ratings, I don't think the citizens of the United States would support him as a dictator. We, as a people, would use physical violence if it were necessary to reject his rule. Dictatorships of fear and terrorism are possible if the dictator has the support of the military but not the citizens. But I don't think that our (USA) armed forces would obey an obvious tyrant in your envisioned situation. You can call it wishful thinking, but I believe in the common sense of the citizens of the United States (as a whole).

I fear more subtle invasions of our rights. Thankfully, my faith in the doctrines of the separation of powers manifest in our constitution alleviates most, but not all, of those fears.
Even if Bush has bad approval ratings, he has complete control/full support of the military.

[lithiumkc]

You underestimate some people. There would be a LOT of the military who agrees with him. Who do you think joins it? The Democrats? I don't think I'd be far off the truth in saying that there are more republicans than democrats fighting in Iraq right now, and I don't think he'd have trouble getting the majority of the military working with him if he pulled it off right. Those mothers are brainwashed, not to say there aren't some who disagree and hate the place. But they're brainwashed.

If there were a dirty bomb or chemical weaponry or another huge slaughtering like 9/11 to occur on U.S. soil, or a series of planned attacks in a short period of time, he could in fact initiate the executive order he passed on May 9 and say it was justified. The country would be in such a state of panic that he could easily lock the city down, and then more than just the city. You have to admit that, given the orders he's passed and the legislation that's passed.

If people revolted, they're 'threatening the war on terrorism' and the war on Iraq and 'could be violent'. Immediately they're under scrutiny and jailed, have their assets frozen.. This is not an impossible scenario, in fact it's an example of exactly what he COULD do with the powers he's vested himself. Regardless of what the supreme court or the house say, he's got executive privilege over everybody and everything under the May 9th order, and only needs a good chunk of the military to support him.... Who else is gonna fight back? The minority part that disagreed would be killed or would surrender. They brought the clergy in to New Orleans to quell dissent and they'd do it again across the country.

Will it happen? God hope not, but the fact that it's possible now should be pissing you guys off at the very least.

It's terrible.

[Brock_Landers]

Bush is only in for one year, this is true, but unfortunately the erosion of the constitution doesn't magically restore itself once he's out. Nor does it mean someone awesome like HMXsean or Steven Seagal is gonna take office next year, either.

However, he's done such an appalling job that you could put Zombie Nixon back in there and people should eat whatever happens up (i'm not talkin about "braaaains" either) just by direct comparison.

Especially when it seems the candidates are cherrypicked for running, based on policy and biases before the whole affair, rather than letting people choose who they want. If it wasn't the case the mass media wouldn't be cockblocking Ron Paul so much, making it look like noone supports him, when it's actually contrary to fact.

I shouldn't care, living in NZ, but I don't want us getting pulled into some batcrazy foreign policy agenda either :P

[sweetlips]

I look at what is happening in terms of these executive orders and new legislation, and can't help but wonder what they (the government) know and are seemingly preparing us (the people) for. It's almost as if they expect an uprising and are taking pre-emptive steps to keep us in check.

At least the Patriot Act was put into place while we were all freaking out over security, while images of planes knocking down skyscrapers were fresh in our minds. These new EO's are like a slap in the face to test the limits. What will it take to stop the abuse of power?

How many people out there are already wondering who might be reading this, or thinking "oh !&$%, did I just type a word that put my name in some sort of databse to be watched, because I am encouraging what is deemed to be radical behaviour?"

[Nitz13]

Will it happen? God hope not, but the fact that it's possible now should be pissing you guys off at the very least.

It's terrible.

Bang on, Sure Bush may not do it, but the possibility of it should wake some of you up.
look at it this way,
say your getting 51% in math class and you could possibly fail if you dont pass the final exam.
what do you do? you study your ass off to pass the exam. You don't just sit around and think to yourself "well I could fail, but it hasn't happened yet so ill watch tv or something"

[lithiumkc]

Bang on, Sure Bush may not do it, but the possibility of it should wake some of you up.
look at it this way,
say your getting 51% in math class and you could possibly fail if you dont pass the final exam.
what do you do? you study your ass off to pass the exam. You don't just sit around and think to yourself "well I could fail, but it hasn't happened yet so ill watch tv or something"

THANK you.. I'm glad you and some other people understand where I'm coming from here.

'O lolz that'll nevur happen conspiracy theorist'
'Uhhh you should simply be pissed off that it is a possibility now'
'Lolz no if it happens it happens so im just gonna not worry'

That's just annoying. I mean have a little bit of respect and pride for your country, for your constitution, especially when it's being used as toilet paper like in the past few years. If Bush wanted control, he could have control, and that's the bottom line.

Iran is next.. Something will happen with them before '08 and the election. There is no doubt in my mind. They're already working their way into it saying the iranian national guard is a terrorist group.

[Eastwood]

People are forgetting who passed that bill. If it was passed May 9, 2007, it was passed by a democratic congress elected by the people, so stop throwing democrat and republican out there like they are so different. A politician, period, is usually a lying weasel with nobody's interest in mind but their own. Bush is just a fall man for a wider American problem and that problem has been mentioned on here before. The American people are just not educated enough about their own political system, nor do they want to be.

[lithiumkc]

People are forgetting who passed that bill. If it was passed May 9, 2007, it was passed by a democratic congress elected by the people, so stop throwing democrat and republican out there like they are so different. A politician, period, is usually a lying weasel with nobody's interest in mind but their own. Bush is just a fall man for a wider American problem and that problem has been mentioned on here before. The American people are just not educated enough about their own political system, nor do they want to be.

Actually if you read the may 9th PRESIDENTIAL DIRECTIVE over, it was created by Bush and did not pass by anybody. He just made it up. He signed it, that was it.

[Julio-Claudius]

Iran is next.. Something will happen with them before '08 and the election. There is no doubt in my mind. They're already working their way into it saying the iranian national guard is a terrorist group.
Quoted for truth.

[Magnet]

In substance, under this executive order, opposing the war becomes an illegal act.

Committing, threatening to commit, or paying someone to commit violent acts are all already illegal. You're vastly misinterpreting that portion of text. That is clearly meant to apply to people involved in violent acts with the intent to destabilize Iraq. It says nothing about people in the US nonviolently speaking out against the war.

[IbanezBassist_v2]

All this thread is, is people taking information from websites, wether credited or not. Then using that information to support their own radical ideas, opinions, and hypothesis. Its actually a waste to even debate, and I'm sorry I even posted in this idiotic thread.

[lithiumkc]

Committing, threatening to commit, or paying someone to commit violent acts are all already illegal. You're vastly misinterpreting that portion of text. That is clearly meant to apply to people involved in violent acts with the intent to destabilize Iraq. It says nothing about people in the US nonviolently speaking out against the war.

Not "Threatening to committ".

YOU are vastly misinterpreting it. It says if they "POSE A RISK" of violent protest. Who is the judge of whether or not somebody is POSING A RISK of undermining the war in Iraq? Bush. They make false flags for wars, I can't put it past them to make false flags for freezing assets and ruining lives of very prominent protestors. They may not actually do it, they may not do anything, the fact remains that these legislations are intentionally worded VERY vaguely so as anything could be construed as "posing a risk" of violence.

You're missing the point completely here.

[lithiumkc]

All this thread is, is people taking information from websites, wether credited or not. Then using that information to support their own radical ideas, opinions, and hypothesis. Its actually a waste to even debate, and I'm sorry I even posted in this idiotic thread.

As for this, all the credited info I need is coming directly from the horses mouth: The bills are up on the whitehouse.gov website, so it's not like those are misinterpretations. The "radical ideas" are merely literal interpretations of how these bills and executive orders could be used. I'm not saying it's going to happen GUARANTEED, I'm saying that this is exactly what is possible. It is. There is absolutely no denying anything I've said is 100% possible and that at any point in time it could happen. Legally, Bush could be a dictator, invoke martial law, arrest people for protesting after saying "They look like they're gonna undermine the war effort", freeze assets, and already he could be tapping your line right now.

These are injustices and the fact that you don't care, to me, is appalling. "Oh well, it could happen, but it's not, so I don't care".

What if it does? What then? If anything like this EVER occured in Canada, our entire country would be up in arms about it. Warrantless wiretapping and surveillance? **** that. Nobody wants to live in a big brother country, but you all seem perfectly fine with it.

Thats your perogative. It appears that there are at least some people who can see the point I'm making, and I'm glad there are.

[Eastwood]

As for this, all the credited info I need is coming directly from the horses mouth: The bills are up on the whitehouse.gov website, so it's not like those are misinterpretations. The "radical ideas" are merely literal interpretations of how these bills and executive orders could be used. I'm not saying it's going to happen GUARANTEED, I'm saying that this is exactly what is possible. It is. There is absolutely no denying anything I've said is 100% possible and that at any point in time it could happen. Legally, Bush could be a dictator, invoke martial law, arrest people for protesting after saying "They look like they're gonna undermine the war effort", freeze assets, and already he could be tapping your line right now.

These are injustices and the fact that you don't care, to me, is appalling. "Oh well, it could happen, but it's not, so I don't care".

What if it does? What then? If anything like this EVER occured in Canada, our entire country would be up in arms about it. Warrantless wiretapping and surveillance? **** that. Nobody wants to live in a big brother country, but you all seem perfectly fine with it.

Thats your perogative. It appears that there are at least some people who can see the point I'm making, and I'm glad there are.


So go and get your Guy Fawkes mask. Come save us poor, poor Americans. Make us remember the 5th of November by blowing up our capitol building. If you feel that strongly about it, go do something. Like I said before, you go run for office, then. The fact is that the majority of OUR citizens at least somewhat trust OUR govt. not giving a damn if you do or not. The point you make is a valid point. It COULD happen. 40 years ago, we COULD have had a nuclear war. We got close, just like we are close to dictatorship now. Your lack of faith in American Govt. is just, but you need to trust the American people a little more. We are a country founded on revolution and we remain that way.

Yes, it is our perogative, it is our country. The good thing about our country is that it usually changes every 8 years, if not 4. If Bush became a dictator, he wouldn't last long because the people would not tolerate it. We may tolerate a lot, but we do not tolerate that.

[IbanezBassist_v2]

I'm not discussing this topic any more KC. You obviously have somewhat of an attitude toward everyone elses opinion or statment, INDICATED BY ALL YOUR BOLD TYPE. Fine. But your point, the one that you continuously try to prove, is not something that I care to understand or accept. Its your opinion, its your fact, its your point. Good for you. I realize you are set in your ways here. A bit one-sided according to your views. You seem not to embrace anyone elses. Cool. So let it be. You won't change anything I feel, say, or think. Sorry. I've already stated. I'm done.

[lithiumkc]

You don't have to worry about it then, don't talk about it. I know there are other people who will be or are currently pissed off about it. You're content not worrying with it, thats fine. Everything will work itself out, right? We'll see.

[beerman]

Leave it to you not to have anything intelligent to add to the convo.
I wonder...is that as bad as coming back to this thread every 5 minutes to state that you're never coming back to this thread?

[IbanezBassist_v2]

I'm not worried....

I've seriously got alot worse things to worry about than this. I'm sorry that this bothers you as much as it does. Better things to do than worry about what could happen.

Thanks for your concern and your ability to respect my opinion. :rolleyes:

[Julio-Claudius]

You don't have to worry about it then, don't talk about it. I know there are other people who will be or are currently pissed off about it. You're content not worrying with it, thats fine. Everything will work itself out, right? We'll see.
Please quit baiting him.

[IbanezBassist_v2]

I wonder...is that as bad as coming back to this thread every 5 minutes to state that you're never coming back to this thread?

You show me where I said I was never coming back, you douche.

[IbanezBassist_v2]

Please quit baiting him.

Naw its cool. He obviously needs to make sure his FACTS are known, and I've nothing against a good debate. But this one has went well beyond that point and into "What I think is right and what you do is wrong". I don't care. It doesn't piss me off or anything, makes me laugh rather.

[Julio-Claudius]

You show me where I said I was never coming back, you douche.


I'm not discussing this topic any more KC. You obviously have somewhat of an attitude toward everyone elses opinion or statment, INDICATED BY ALL YOUR BOLD TYPE. Fine. But your point, the one that you continuously try to prove, is not something that I care to understand or accept. Its your opinion, its your fact, its your point. Good for you. I realize you are set in your ways here. A bit one-sided according to your views. You seem not to embrace anyone elses. Cool. So let it be. You won't change anything I feel, say, or think. Sorry. I've already stated. I'm done.
^^^^^^^^^^

[beerman]

I'm not discussing this topic any more KC. You obviously have somewhat of an attitude toward everyone elses opinion or statment, INDICATED BY ALL YOUR BOLD TYPE. Fine. But your point, the one that you continuously try to prove, is not something that I care to understand or accept. Its your opinion, its your fact, its your point. Good for you. I realize you are set in your ways here. A bit one-sided according to your views. You seem not to embrace anyone elses. Cool. So let it be. You won't change anything I feel, say, or think. Sorry. I've already stated. I'm done.
..........

[IbanezBassist_v2]

Does it state I wasn't coming back into the topic....Does it. Hmm. No. It doesn't. And the conversation I am having now may be in relation to this topic but isn't directly about said thread. Totally different subject. Quit taking my post out of context you ass.

This is now in direct correlation to KC and his inability to respect other peoples ideals, but rather arguing that his is and will be the only truth.

[lithiumkc]

Does it state I wasn't coming back into the topic....Does it. Hmm. No. It doesn't. And the conversation I am having now may be in relation to this topic but isn't directly about said thread. Totally different subject. Quit taking my post out of context you ass.

Well as far as I'm concerned, you said you were done with the topic a while back and didn't want to talk about it further. So... That, to me, says that you were done with the thread. Then you popped back in to say I should stop telling you what to think. Well, I wasn't telling you what to think for one thing, I was telling you what's happening and what the consequences of what is currently happening could be. I was not thinking about you personally making the comments. So please

Not to mention you don't have to read it. If you think it's crazy conspiracy theory drama then you should have no problem laughing at it and sitting back. Obviously it gets under your skin more than you claim. Stop reading, stop posting, let other people discuss it then instead of saying "shutup" in general. I havent told you to not voice your opinion, have I? I've just counterpointed them, and you claim that's forcing my views on you.

You just said yourself that you like a good debate. Debate is what we're doing. So don't take it personal, jeez.

This also is not really an ideal-based discussion, this is politics. I'm relaying information of your rights and freedoms being stripped away, because they are. I may also be calling you naive by writing it off as unimportant, but that's because I truly believe it, and I'm not afraid to speak what I believe. You can believe nothing's going to happen, I can respect WHY, because you get no real news and they do a pretty good job of keeping you all under control. Not to say they control you personally, but your country in general is controlled by fear and the news is not unbiased.

[Julio-Claudius]

don't take it personal, jeez.
I find this funny, considering how anal you've been in this thread.

[MartyMcFly]

Here's a question to lighten things up....

Is the RB guitar wireless?

:D

On a serious note, this thread needs to end. But thanks for the info Lithium, whether or not people will decide to use it, who knows.

[lithiumkc]

I'm not taking it personally. I'm just arguing for what I believe is right. It affects us all, I'm allowed to voice an opinion on it. I'm not being offensive at all, get over it.

[IbanezBassist_v2]

You know I can't stay away! Seriously though. When someone shares the same opinion as you, its intelligence. When its counteractive, its being lazy, un-informed, or just blatantly ignorant. That is my whole defense on your post regarding your opinions. You state that they are simply this, yet when some one post something you don't agree with then you get all uppity about that. That's not debate. For example


I thank you for the actual INTELLIGENCE shown in your post.. However...

This was your post regarding someone who shares your same or similar opinion. My post received less kindly and encouraging words. Its not the topic that gets me hot. Its your lack of respect for other peoples opinions. Understand?

[lithiumkc]

You know I can't stay away! Seriously though. When someone shares the same opinion as you, its intelligence. When its counteractive, its being lazy, un-informed, or just blatantly ignorant. That is my whole defense on your post regarding your opinions. You state that they are simply this, yet when some one post something you don't agree with then you get all uppity about that. That's not debate. For example
Because you're not sharing facts... You're saying nothing will happen when all I'm saying is it could easily happen. You are uninformed if you believe it couldn't. You are ignorant if you think that nothing like that could ever happen in a million years. There is a distinct possibility it could, based only on the legislation Bush himself has passed recently. There is no other reason for him to pass unconstitutional legislation without the intent to use it.



This was your post regarding someone who shares your same or similar opinion. My post received less kindly and encouraging words. Its not the topic that gets me hot. Its your lack of respect for other peoples opinions. Understand?

Actually, if you read his post, he was refuting me. He was the only one to do so by explaining what he thought about it, that I was wrong and that the supreme court would rule it unconstitutional. Several posts later I disagreed with him again, so he shares your opinion actually. I claimed intelligence because he didn't attack me, he attacked what I was saying. You simply said "Don't tell me how to think" and "conspiracy theorist" along the lines of that. I won't respond to personal attacks and ad hominems in a debate because they add nothing and prove nothing. He provided actual debate, you did not, you provided opinion and said there was nothing to worry about.

So if you have anything to add or to refute the points I'm raising, so be it, otherwise I don't care if the information I'm relaying offends you or that I'm explaining situations that can occur because of this information. You don't have to agree with it, but stop telling me not to talk.

[lithiumkc]

P.S.


How cute....you think you could make a difference. Our government is one of the most powerful and corrupt bodies in the world. There is nothing that can be done.

Just like someones belief in religion. At one point, there will be a Rapture or end (depending on your preference). There is nothing that can be done to stop it. Its a part of evolution of life. Its going to happen sometime. Embrace inevitability.

Wouldn't that be your opinion? So you can state yours, but I can't state mine. You think we should embrace inevitability. I think that it is not inevitability. You state yours, I state mine, but you just tell me to stop talking and whine about how I can't accept YOUR ideals. Hypocrisy IB.

We both have our opinions. Thing is, yours is just opinion. Mine is backed with information and the belief that people can better their situation with information.

[IbanezBassist_v2]

And when did I tell you to stop?

[lithiumkc]

Maybe not stop, more like claiming I was refusing to accept other peoples ideals. Excuse me, but in debate, you're supposed to be holding on to YOUR ideals and trying to let the truth come out. People just get pissed off because I'm logical. Newway got pissed off when I was logical and said the same thing , "Stop forcing your views on me". Well, uhhh, I'm not forcing my views on you, I'm presenting my opinion. Why should it be a 'give and take' if i believe you're wrong in what you're saying? You have the right to disagree with me and explain WHY you disagree, at which point I can either understand what you're saying and agree with you or present more information that supports my opinion if I disagree with you. That's how it works.

People don't grasp debate on these forums very well.

[IbanezBassist_v2]

in debate, you're supposed to be holding on to YOUR ideals and trying to let the truth come out. People just get pissed off because I'm logical. I'm not forcing my views on you, I'm presenting my opinion. Why should it be a 'give and take' if i believe you're wrong in what you're saying? You have the right to disagree with me and explain WHY you disagree, at which point I can either understand what you're saying and agree with you or present more information that supports my opinion if I disagree with you.

You're absolutely right Lith. And just so we understand each other, I am not pissed or even angry. I'm not one to get pissed over piddly **** in a forum. But I'm not going to go out of my way to do research or look for info to back up and argument online either. Maybe you see it as being un-resourceful or lazy. I see it as a waste of time (Yes I realize I spend alot of time here). I could see doing so if it wasn't just for casual conversations or to pass the time. Guess you're just a better man than I when it comes to that.

[lithiumkc]

You're absolutely right Lith. And just so we understand each other, I am not pissed or even angry. I'm not one to get pissed over piddly **** in a forum. But I'm not going to go out of my way to do research or look for info to back up and argument online either. Maybe you see it as being un-resourceful or lazy. I see it as a waste of time (Yes I realize I spend alot of time here). I could see doing so if it wasn't just for casual conversations or to pass the time. Guess you're just a better man than I when it comes to that.

Then if you're not going out of your way to refute what I'm saying other than "Theres nothing to worry about", why bother telling me not to voice an opinion.

Like I said, I said the other guys post showed intelligence because he's done his research and was able to disagree with me on INFORMATION, not opinion. So you can disagree with me all you like, but until you provide me with information to disprove what I'm saying, there's no reason for me to split hairs and spare feelings by voicing what I believe to be true... I just hate when people moan and complain about people speaking up and voicing opinion by saying you're invading or ignoring theirs... uhhh, DUH, I don't agree with it.

So please, don't of accusing me of ignoring ideals, being anal, or not respecting other peoples points of view, which I do, I just disagree with them. Have them all you want, but don't expect that having your own opinion means I can't disagree with it and explain why I disagree with it. None of those accusations are relevant if you are in fact considering this a debate, which I did not intend it to be in the first place.


p.s. ilu IB :P

[lithiumkc]

http://foxattacks.com/iran

More evidence they're moving towards hitting Iran next

[Julio-Claudius]

http://foxattacks.com/iran

More evidence they're moving towards hitting Iran next
Why are you trying to stop it? WE NEED OUR PRECIOUS OIL! :rolleyes:

[JukeBoxHero]

Now if this all true than I am worried. The fact that this is happening really gets to me, but I know the following will mostly likely happen.

1.George Bush will become a dictator and we'll all be screw until someone help us or we revolt.

2.George Bush will not use it and then a new president might come along and use those powers unless it is specifically for Bush.

3.The government and people will remove George Bush from office and removed those laws/acts. It doesn't take a army to remove these powers.

I'm worried but I figure it's better to watch carefully, before taking drastic action.Many people don't like George Bush, they won't let him ***** slap them without vengeance. No matter if he got the ****ing military on his side.

[Nitz13]

One Thing I noticed when I went back to read the page linked on the first topic.

and this is related to all those people who say "nah Don't worry it might not happen"

The CIA released a "National Intelligence Estimate" in which it stated an Al Qaeda Attack was Imminent, another 9/11.

so that "Catastrophic Emergency" that would slingshot Bush into Authoritarian rule is not as far off as many of you think

P.S. sorry if this specific section has been mentioned didn't feel like rereading 12 pages to find out

[lithiumkc]

Exactly.. God knows I'm not asking people to dissent and revolt and start anarchy now. But if people hear this now.. And something to this effect happens.. They're going to realize that it was in fact planned all along, and all these small, seemingly unconnected steps taken have lead up to the terrible conclusion.

Fox is pushing the war in Iran just like they did with Iraq.. Dirty bombs, chemical attacks, any of these could take place at any time in any city in the USA. It wouldn't be too hard for them to pull it off.. Now since they are predicting an event to happen, if it DID, most of the American public would be more afraid than anything and I guarantee you scaremongering would occur to make dictatorship or martial law sound justified. Most people would concede that it was necessary to 'stop the terrorists'. Those who didn't would be laughed at or called conspiracy theorists, or acting out of treason.. just like now. Even if they don't like Bush, a good portion of them will go along with it simply out of fear. A good portion of them will also revolt and disagree, but the majority would be behind him because the country is run on fear above all.

My main point in making this thread was to alert people who may not have any knowledge on the subject. These things are all very real right now, and at any point in time they could become reality. It's not always good to take things at face value and rest on your laurels.. Remember the grasshopper and the ants? You don't want to be the grasshopper when winter comes.

[newwaytodie]

You underestimate some people. There would be a LOT of the military who agrees with him. Who do you think joins it? The Democrats? I don't think I'd be far off the truth in saying that there are more republicans than democrats fighting in Iraq right now, and I don't think he'd have trouble getting the majority of the military working with him if he pulled it off right. Those mothers are brainwashed, not to say there aren't some who disagree and hate the place. But they're brainwashed.

You ****ing insult those guys EVER again and I'll come to Canada and burn your ****ing ****** ass alive. I'm not even kidding. You deserve to die for even saying that.

You're a piece of ****. Just be happy you're safe up there you little cock sucker.

Have you had friends die in Iraq? DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT IT MEANS TO WEAR THE UNIFORM!?!?!?

You disgust me, you are less than ****. Don't even pretend to know what they're like or why they put their lives on the line. They stand for more than you EVER will!!!

They DO have consciences, and they KNOW what tyranny is! You don't have a goddamn clue you ****ing coward!

[lithiumkc]

Grow up, that wasn't offensive in the slightest.

[Eastwood]

Gotta let him feel that way, though... I have friends over seas and in Iraq right now. Although you are concerned about our govt., Lith, please show a little bit of tact when talking about the military. You don't know if there is someone on here whos brother or father or sister, uncle whatever may be in Iraq. Maybe even have died in Iraq. You, of all people, should at least have a little compassion for that. Seeing where this thread is turning, I think we should walk away from it out of respect for each other's opinion. We have a good community here and we (or at least I) don't want this spilling over into the Rock Band forum. This conversation is starting to involve more than opinions.

[JukeBoxHero]

Edit:I'm just going to withdraw that post. I agree with you about everything but that brainwashing comment until I looked it over again.

I would send you a private message but it keeps asking for my login and password every time.

[lithiumkc]

That is offensive you just called brother,sisters, mothers, fathers,ect of others' family brainwashed. I'm a bit ticked off you said that because that is not ****ing true.Not every single person is a simple minded moron who would follow a dictator.

Notice I said lots, not all. That is a true statement. They indoctrinate young people in with tons of commercials, Americas Army which is baciscally a free game that's like a recruitment tool. Some people in the army I guarantee you are brainwashed and would follow commands if they were given. Don't act like I was claiming its a complete brainwashed system

[McDeezy]

I've never been so scared in my life after reading these threads. omg :( :( :( :(

[BoWeevil]

I just finished reading all that has been said this morning.

World conditions haven't looked this bad since I was walking up
and down a line of B-52s during the Cuban missile crisis.

Whom ever controls the oil will control the world,I think we all agree
on that. The US dollar has been the currency of the oil market and
it's loosing that grip,when it does,it's Kattie bar the door for the US.

Lith is just not blowing smoke up your ass,he's very informed about what's
going on and you should be as well, regardless of where you're from.

What ever one nation does, will most definitely effect the others,good or bad.

News papers,tv and radio are not going to give you the full story.
Use the internet while you've got it. I'm afraid it'll be the first thing to go
if the SHTF.

....Bo....

[Nitz13]

I just finished reading all that has been said this morning.

World conditions haven't looked this bad since I was walking up
and down a line of B-52s during the Cuban missile crisis.

Whom ever controls the oil will control the world,I think we all agree
on that. The US dollar has been the currency of the oil market and
it's loosing that grip,when it does,it's Kattie bar the door for the US.

Lith is just not blowing smoke up your ass,he's very informed about what's
going on and you should be as well, regardless of where you're from.

What ever one nation does, will most definitely effect the others,good or bad.

News papers,tv and radio are not going to give you the full story.
Use the internet while you've got it. I'm afraid it'll be the first thing to go
if the SHTF.

....Bo....


Exactly some people in this thread seem to believe that if were not in America, It dosen't Concern us, some people need to learn the actions of the U.S. affect us all

[gh2masterwellalmost]

http://www.care2.com/news/go/456265

Vague new bill passed that allows surveillance on anybody, anywhere, be it through the warrantless wiretapping that they can already do or through physically searching you and your home.

If at any point they declare that searching you will aide them in finding a "terrorist" in the country or ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, they can do anything they want with you.

Spread this news, the internet is the best way to do it and the news isn't going to cover any of it.

Although normally I would just say "this is what happens when you elect republicans", the fact is, even our "left wing" party in the UK is right wing, and whatever America does we copy, so I'm scared for my little country now.

[Kang_Zircon]

"I have issued an Executive Order blocking property of persons determined to have committed, or to pose a significant risk of committing, an act or acts of violence that have the purpose or effect of threatening the peace or stability of Iraq or the Government of Iraq or undermining efforts to promote economic reconstruction and political reform in Iraq or to provide humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people."

Promoting violence has never been protected under free speech. Making the leap that promoting violence = opposing the war = free speech is a pretty grand one.

So is calling a "majority" of the military brainwashed. Majority is > 50%. I have several family members in the military and have known even more, who joined befeor Bush was even president, and I've known maybe one person I'd consider "brainwashed." That's not a majority, and yes, it is offensive to assume so.

I understand that you don't like Bush, neither do most americans. (including many in the military). It seems pretty obvious he's not going to be impeached, so what do you suggest be done? People have been talking about the 2008 elections since pretty much right after Bush was re-elected. I don't think there's much opportunity for any real change until then. At least he won't be able to run again...

[McDeezy]

I understand that you don't like Bush, neither do most americans. (including many in the military). It seems pretty obvious he's not going to be impeached, so what do you suggest be done? People have been talking about the 2008 elections since pretty much right after Bush was re-elected. I don't think there's much opportunity for any real change until then. At least he won't be able to run again...

But what if they stage something and Bush pulls that bullcrap and stays in office?

[Kang_Zircon]

But what if they stage something and Bush pulls that bullcrap and stays in office?

That's really, really unlikely. He'd have to be liked to stay in office, and with his approval rating in the toilette, the country wouldn't stand for him being in office any longer than the constitution allows at this point.

[McDeezy]

That's really, really unlikely. He'd have to be liked to stay in office, and with his approval rating in the toilette, the country wouldn't stand for him being in office any longer than the constitution allows at this point.

But if he declares martial law doesn't that mean we have no right to say he shouldn't be in there anymore?

[Julio-Claudius]

But if he declares martial law doesn't that mean we have no right to say he shouldn't be in there anymore?
No, martial law would mean that the military would be in command of the justice system. Although, the military is under the presiden'ts control, so it's possible for him to be ridiculous with the punishments, ie he could sentence you to death for stealing a car.

[gh2masterwellalmost]

No, martial law would mean that the military would be in command of the justice system. Although, the military is under the presiden'ts control, so it's possible for him to be ridiculous with the punishments, ie he could sentence you to death for stealing a car.

The military... controlling the economic heart of the world? I may be against capitalism, but if its here to stay, and America goes down the pit, so do all the other countries.

I also noticed in your link lithium (thx btw for this, although the non-profit UK newspaper "The Guardian" did report on it) is that you can't be against the anglo-american (anglo meaning English for you french noobs j/k :P angleterre being england) oil seizing of middle eastern countries.

Well, of course, I'm not against it in anyway, but I believe some people have discussed the wars being only for oil, but of course IEXTREMELY doubt that don't you think?

[Julio-Claudius]

The military... controlling the economic heart of the world? I may be against capitalism, but if its here to stay, and America goes down the pit, so do all the other countries.

I also noticed in your link lithium (thx btw for this, although the non-profit UK newspaper "The Guardian" did report on it) is that you can't be against the anglo-american (anglo meaning English for you french noobs j/k :P angleterre being england) oil seizing of middle eastern countries.

Well, of course, I'm not against it in anyway, but I believe some people have discussed the wars being only for oil, but of course IEXTREMELY doubt that don't you think?
I don't doubt that for one second. People have done terrible things for stupid reasons. Millions of people died because one person didn't like Jews.

I don't think 9/11 was an inside job, but the government certainly took advantage of the event and used it to set up a military force around oil so nobody else can get it. Bush doesn't care about terrorists. Bush doesn't care about freedom. Bush doesn't care about people dying. He cares about money. That is why we are in Iraq, and that's why America hates him.

[gh2masterwellalmost]

I don't doubt that for one second. People have done terrible things for stupid reasons. Millions of people died because one person didn't like Jews.

I don't think 9/11 was an inside job, but the government certainly took advantage of the event and used it to set up a military force around oil so nobody else can get it. Bush doesn't care about terrorists. Bush doesn't care about freedom. Bush doesn't care about people dying. He cares about money. That is why we are in Iraq, and that's why America hates him.

I know you like to disagree with me, but re-read what I put, and remember that was carefully legally edited... see where I'm going with it?

[Julio-Claudius]

I know you like to disagree with me, but re-read what I put, and remember that was carefully legally edited... see where I'm going with it?
I wasn't disagreeing with you for the sake of it, that is truly how I feel. America hates the man because he is a money-grubbing *******.

[gh2masterwellalmost]

I wasn't disagreeing with you for the sake of it, that is truly how I feel. America hates the man because he is a money-grubbing *******.

I still think you missed my point on the post i put but sarcasm is not an easily accepted form of humour.

And, not being racist here but simply using my experience of what British people think of Americans, George Bush acts as the figurehead of your country, and it being the most powerful country in the world (China will beat this tho... thats what happens when a dictatorship plans for centuries ahead and a democracy plans for the next election, but anyway back on topic) and George Bush is seen as the archetypal American. Though this isn't true through my own experiences, others will disagree and racially stereotype your nation as basically 250 million George Bush's

[IErrantVentureI]

Yeah, usually, we go in, kick their asses, then leave. Doesn't take long. But with Bush..

[gh2masterwellalmost]

Yeah, usually, we go in, kick their asses, then leave. Doesn't take long. But with Bush..

Well, if that wasn't sarcastic.... American history pretty much disproves your statement. Vietnam... oh you lost that so you claim it was a police action. World War 1... you only turn up EXTREMELY late when the Lusitania (not sure on spelling) and World War 2 you did not win it for us, the 10 million dead Russians on the Eastern Front won it. Stalin practically gave kids on the street machine guns...

But, if your statement was sarcastic, forget all I just said.

[IErrantVentureI]

Yes, it was, lol.

[gh2masterwellalmost]

Yes, it was, lol.

:D lol. forget all i said then :P

[IErrantVentureI]

You've been forgiven.

:p

[Eastwood]

It is unfortunate that in an age of infinite information and understanding that hate and violence are still the main way that people interact with each other in the world.

But on the economy side, if America goes down, then the world economy goes down. Same if China went down... or India... or Europe. We depend on each other way too much, economically. That COULD be a good thing if we learn to get along every once in awhile.

[gh2masterwellalmost]

It is unfortunate that in an age of infinite information and understanding that hate and violence are still the main way that people interact with each other in the world.

But on the economy side, if America goes down, then the world economy goes down. Same if China went down... or India... or Europe. We depend on each other way too much, economically. That COULD be a good thing if we learn to get along every once in awhile.

You have just desribed one of many HORRIBLE symptoms of a disease called economic globalisation, and the cause of economic globalisation: the plague, the syndrome, the bane of humanity, capitalism. You're all for selling land, but land is not a commodity to be bought and sold; you are not valued in society for who you are; you are valued as a number - $50,000, £30,000 - ur wage. You are paid less for your labour than what is due - this is called "profit".

"To each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs"

"Ask for work. If they don't give you work, ask for bread. If they don't give you bread, take bread".

[Julio-Claudius]

Yup. It seems like the only meaning in life is to gain money and power. Oh wait...

[Eastwood]

I get by and thats all that matters... so globalisation is working just fine for me. globalisation is what is allowing an american product (rock band) be sold in othr countries.

[thorn_9]

Wrong. Its the current form of globalization that allows weak backward countries like china to take so much business, destroy the environment though cheap production and labor, pump out a cheap product, have it distributed in walmarts of the world and have it break a few weeks later, so we the public can go get a new cheap product.

The core problem with America (my country, which I have served 5 yrs in the Army, and love) is that it is not a democratic nation, its a capitalist nation, under the guise of a democratic one. When money runs a country and not the people, you end up with what we have. Failed businessmen in charge, fighting a war over self-interest and profit for profit, while the population dies for the bottom line.

The real sad part is, this is the best we as a species can do. Our nature works against our intentions and there is not much we can do about it except hide behind our many comforts like RB. So please, RB come out so I can hide behind your sweet sweet gameplay lol

[McDeezy]

Wrong. Its the current form of globalization that allows weak backward countries like china to take so much business, destroy the environment though cheap production and labor, pump out a cheap product, have it distributed in walmarts of the world and have it break a few weeks later, so we the public can go get a new cheap product.

The core problem with America (my country, which I have served 5 yrs in the Army, and love) is that it is not a democratic nation, its a capitalist nation, under the guise of a democratic one. When money runs a country and not the people, you end up with what we have. Failed businessmen in charge, fighting a war over self-interest and profit for profit, while the population dies for the bottom line.

The real sad part is, this is the best we as a species can do. Our nature works against our intentions and there is not much we can do about it except hide behind our many comforts like RB. So please, RB come out so I can hide behind your sweet sweet gameplay lol

If it wasn't in our nature to destroy ourselfs, things would be hell of a lot easier.

[gh2masterwellalmost]

If it wasn't in our nature to destroy ourselfs, things would be hell of a lot easier.

If we could stop being humans and be decent, we could all live in my oh-so-repeated-too-many-times dream of anarchism. But guess what: its not gonna happen. At 14 I shouldn't be so cynical, and I SHOULD believe anarchism would work, but it won't. Nice videogames will keep me busy for now, but I'd give em all up for anarchism.

Though, army guy, why be proud of your country? It is one thing me and my friends commonly disagree on. Just because my Mum didn't give birth to me 200 miles south in France, or 100 miles east in Wales, I couldn't care less about being English. The borders are just capitalist's lines on maps. In an anarchist (remember, this is ridiuculously unrealistic but lets be optimistic) society, the close knit communities mean you can still worship your religion (despite that I'm against organised religion, but that is not to say I would force that on other people) and keep your opinions, but without the passport control on the borders.

And, since we are all born equal, who has the right to tell us what to do? (Although, democracy does happen within anarchism - for example, when dealing with crime, the community would decide the punishment, for example, but this is both an arguement for and against anarchism).

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb debating what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote" fantastic quote. Was it Jefferson? I'm sure it was some early American great thinker.

[Eastwood]

Why be proud of our country? I see it as being proud of our fore fathers accomplishments. A lot of people's families worked hard and endured to make a better life for me. While our political system is a mess, there is still good out there to be proud of. Take thorn's military service. I don't even know him and I'm proud of him. It takes a lot of character to serve. I grew up in a military family, so I know the lifestyle. I may not have lived it but I know it. I've seen families informed their loved one died in Somalia while I lived in Ft. Benning. I've seen soldiers in the gym at Ft. Sam Houston running on a treadmill with a titanium leg because they lost their real one in Iraq. If they are proud, then I wouldn't be doing them justice if I wasn't proud, too. I am also proud at what our country has accomplished. We may have had a bad streak, but what country hasn't? Just because we are in a war that you don't agree with doesn't make it right to ignore the contributions of the past.

Everyone is so quick to jump on the "hate america" band wagon. It is almost comical to watch because most of the crap they throw in our face, they have been guilty of in the past. So if you can sit there and tell me that England, France, Germany, and whoever else is just so damn spotless, I've got beach front property in Baghdad I'd like to sell you.

[gh2masterwellalmost]

Why be proud of our country? I see it as being proud of our fore fathers accomplishments. A lot of people's families worked hard and endured to make a better life for me. While our political system is a mess, there is still good out there to be proud of. Take thorn's military service. I don't even know him and I'm proud of him. It takes a lot of character to serve. I grew up in a military family, so I know the lifestyle. I may not have lived it but I know it. I've seen families informed their loved one died in Somalia while I lived in Ft. Benning. I've seen soldiers in the gym at Ft. Sam Houston running on a treadmill with a titanium leg because they lost their real one in Iraq. If they are proud, then I wouldn't be doing them justice if I wasn't proud, too. I am also proud at what our country has accomplished. We may have had a bad streak, but what country hasn't? Just because we are in a war that you don't agree with doesn't make it right to ignore the contributions of the past.

Everyone is so quick to jump on the "hate america" band wagon. It is almost comical to watch because most of the crap they throw in our face, they have been guilty of in the past. So if you can sit there and tell me that England, France, Germany, and whoever else is just so damn spotless, I've got beach front property in Baghdad I'd like to sell you.

What people fail to realise, and obviously the brainwashing got to you: war is not a beautiful and elegant dance of two swordfighters. It is the dirty sniper attack from miles away, it is innocent people being drawn in by corrupt powers to fight one another over oil or land, AND LAND IS NOT A COMMODITY TO BE OWNED, BOUGHT OR SOLD!

England sucks too. Mainly because we're following your country. France was great - until they elected a right wing idiot - such a hypocritical move after the great revolution. Germany is getting there - but I've been to Berlin, its not a nice place - people in East Berlin still wondering "why havent I got a job under this brilliant capitalism"?

Your country was founded by a bunch of slave taking idiots. England has one saving grace - it doesnt have a constitution corrupt lawyers and politicians can bend. At the time, the forefathers thought they were doing the right thing - what a coincidence that in a country where guns are legal gun crime is high.

Charachter is required to serve the military. The charachter of "stuff my morals, lets go kill that "bad guy" over there and steal all his oil"; "lets go take life because of course I have the moral right to kill". Your economic empire is coming to a close - unless a certain Mrs Clinton, the only saviour I can see, comes to your aid. Earlier you said China was a dirty economic force - that is your brainwashing again. You said it wasn't green enough; whos the country who hasn't signed the Kyoto agreement.

Clinton was going to be great. He goes and lies about an affair, and you punish him. Would you have gone to war under him? God no.

EDIT: (I was being harsh and doing a kneejerk reaction then, so here's some fairer stuff:)You must have a lot of bravery and pride for your country to serve in the military. But, IMHO, supporting the place your mum happened to give birth to you in is pointless. But, of course, this is my opinion and you are, as always, entitled to yours.

[Eastwood]

I didn't say China was dirty, I said that they are part of globalization.

If you consider feeling compasion due to living on a military base and seeing the effect war times have on a military family when someone is lost or maimed, then yes, sir. I am brainwashed.

I'm done with this thread. I tried to call it quits long ago, citing that the military is too sensitive of a subject right now. People keep venturing away from educated thought and start throwing in emotional words like brainwashing.

So I'll end with a corny line. "While I do not agree with what you say, I will fight to the death for your right to say it." :D

See ya in another thread

[McDeezy]

I have to agree with gh2master on alot of things. We are all equal. No one should be able to make you give your life for their greed. Killing isn't justified in anyway. Your taking someones life and using Terrorism as a moral cover up. I don't know, I just don't agree with war. Its just kids in a sandbox.

[Julio-Claudius]

Alberto Gonzales has resigned! His official statement will be broadcast later today!

[thorn_9]

Our (America) country was founded on the principle of taxation without representation. England had no american colony representative in the parliment, so taxes in America were rocketing sky high. The American public grew tired of it and King George (coincidence? :)) and rebelled, starting the revolutionary war.

America was then molded into an operating isolationist country under the idea that generally, the masses are free. There were too many slave owners and not enough progressive minds to ban slavery all out initially, though all other freedoms were instituted as best as could be agreed upon by these revolutionaries.

I am proud of America for what it states in our constitution and bill of rights. I am proud of the American legacy (in general). I am saddened by the masses of our youth in this country in their political apathy, but I understand it.

I don't think America will ever regain its honor unless its people are universally respected and taken care of by America itself, and if its people have mantatory government service, to help give a sence of ownership by its residents.

Not all soldiers in our military join to fight the good fight. Some do it for college money, some due to poverty, some because they are lost. But all should be respected for what they give, and what they represent. Not the military machine, but the willingness to serve adn sacrifice for something you believe in, the constitution and bill of rights.

[thorn_9]

Alberto Gonzales has resigned! His official statement will be broadcast later today!

Hip Hip Horray!

[gh2masterwellalmost]

Our (America) country was founded on the principle of taxation without representation. England had no american colony representative in the parliment, so taxes in America were rocketing sky high. The American public grew tired of it and King George (coincidence? :)) and rebelled, starting the revolutionary war.

America was then molded into an operating isolationist country under the idea that generally, the masses are free. There were too many slave owners and not enough progressive minds to ban slavery all out initially, though all other freedoms were instituted as best as could be agreed upon by these revolutionaries.

I am proud of America for what it states in our constitution and bill of rights. I am proud of the American legacy (in general). I am saddened by the masses of our youth in this country in their political apathy, but I understand it.

I don't think America will ever regain its honor unless its people are universally respected and taken care of by America itself, and if its people have mantatory government service, to help give a sence of ownership by its residents.

Not all soldiers in our military join to fight the good fight. Some do it for college money, some due to poverty, some because they are lost. But all should be respected for what they give, and what they represent. Not the military machine, but the willingness to serve adn sacrifice for something you believe in, the constitution and bill of rights.

You know when you see someone looking one way, and you think they should be looking another way, and its like "for gods sake I'm right" but they are feeling exactly the same? Well, this is this.

I am pacifist. World War One was a travesty of countries fighting over their failing empires. World War Two was Hitler being manifested by our own corrupt Treaty of Versailles as the Germans got desperate for a scapegoat, and what did they pick: jews. Vietnam was a disgrace for America, and Harold Wilson is often forgotten, but he was the one who made sure Britain stayed out of it. And there is one event that shows the truth of what humanity and what America has become, not capitalism, much sicker: the atom bomb.

So, under those pretences, national service is a disgrace to your rights. The fact that you use the constitution positively then take away what those people were trying to make of a country to suggest compulsary national service is terribly hypocritical. Why should you be forced to like your country? To me, there should be no line between Canada and the USA, Northern Ireland to Ireland, England to Scotland. They are but lines on the map that capitalists use. The laws protect the rich, but disgrace the poor.

The American people you say were sick of the slave-traders. How come it was only in the 1960s a certain Dr King came along. How come you had seperate places for the black and white? We NEVER had these disgraces in our not-so-fine country. And the PEOPLE WHO MADE THE GOD DAMN CORRUPT PIECE OF PAPER WERE SLAVE OWNERS THEMSELVES!

There is no good fight to the military. I recommend you read Dulce et Decorum Est to realise that you are just identical to terrorists. oh wait, in American schools you forget the WW1 since you were barely in it and anti-war poetry - yeah right.

Thank you McDeezy for agreeing with me. It is not complicated to see how taking people's lives is wrong. If you call yourself a Christian (I'm not, but the majority of the world are), then you've got even less excuses to work.

Taxes are not a bad thing. Your taxes are low compared to ours. I'm happy. Why? Because it means if I fall ill i'm not paying through the roof for PEOPLE WHO MAKE PROFIT OVER DYING HUMAN BEINGS!

To be proud of your country is a disgrace. I dislike my own country for many reasons, but you should be showing that not all Americans are stupid, like McDeezy is a smart kid (I'm guessing you're American, I apologise if you're not).

I sum up American politics throughout the years as this: "We are all equal. But I'm more equal than you".

[thorn_9]

You know when you see someone looking one way, and you think they should be looking another way, and its like "for gods sake I'm right" but they are feeling exactly the same? Well, this is this.

I am pacifist. World War One was a travesty of countries fighting over their failing empires. World War Two was Hitler being manifested by our own corrupt Treaty of Versailles as the Germans got desperate for a scapegoat, and what did they pick: jews. Vietnam was a disgrace for America, and Harold Wilson is often forgotten, but he was the one who made sure Britain stayed out of it. And there is one event that shows the truth of what humanity and what America has become, not capitalism, much sicker: the atom bomb.

So, under those pretences, national service is a disgrace to your rights. The fact that you use the constitution positively then take away what those people were trying to make of a country to suggest compulsary national service is terribly hypocritical. Why should you be forced to like your country? To me, there should be no line between Canada and the USA, Northern Island to Island, England to Scotland. They are but lines on the map that capitalists use. The laws protect the rich, but disgrace the poor.

The American people you say were sick of the slave-traders. How come it was only in the 1960s a certain Dr King came along. How come you had seperate places for the black and white? We NEVER had these disgraces in our not-so-fine country. And the PEOPLE WHO MADE THE GOD DAMN CORRUPT PIECE OF PAPER WERE SLAVE OWNERS THEMSELVES!

There is no good fight to the military. I recommend you read Dulce et Decorum Est to realise that you are just identical to terrorists. oh wait, in American schools you forget the WW1 since you were barely in it and anti-war poetry - yeah right.

Thank you McDeezy for agreeing with me. It is not complicated to see how taking people's lives is wrong. If you call yourself a Christian (I'm not, but the majority of the world are), then you've got even less excuses to work.

Taxes are not a bad thing. Your taxes are low compared to ours. I'm happy. Why? Because it means if I fall ill i'm not paying through the roof for PEOPLE WHO MAKE PROFIT OVER DYING HUMAN BEINGS!

To be proud of your country is a disgrace. I dislike my own country for many reasons, but you should be showing that not all Americans are stupid, like McDeezy is a smart kid (I'm guessing you're American, I apologise if you're not).

I sum up American politics throughout the years as this: "We are all equal. But you're less equal to me".

There are so many 'points?' in this that take much more time to address than I have atm, so I will just say humans are social creatures, who are compelled to create and destroy. It is our psyche that compells us to try to band together into like minded groups and create societies. If you are truly the way you say you are, you would leave your society, because it is only a disturbed mind that would remain in a place, as a part of the society and disagree with it. Disturbed or ignorrant.

If you have soo many reservations about the place you live, and are so anarchist, why dont you leave? Doesnt anarchy lend itself to immediate action? Or are you simply a troll?

To make a blind statement like "to be proud of your country is a disgrace" screams out to those who read it, troll, and young and ignorrant. I believe as adults, we need to start practicing what we preach, and not just shout out how hard we are and how much we hate this and that, without doing anything about it...thats what a child does.

But hey, thats just my American independant view...I could be wrong.

[gh2masterwellalmost]

There are so many 'points?' in this that take much more time to address than I have atm, so I will just say humans are social creatures, who are compelled to create and destroy. It is our psyche that compells us to try to band together into like minded groups and create societies. If you are truly the way you say you are, you would leave your society, because it is only a disturbed mind that would remain in a place, as a part of the society and disagree with it. Disturbed or ignorrant.

If you have soo many reservations about the place you live, and are so anarchist, why dont you leave? Doesnt anarchy lend itself to immediate action? Or are you simply a troll?

To make a blind statement like "to be proud of your country is a disgrace" screams out to those who read it, troll, and young and ignorrant. I believe as adults, we need to start practicing what we preach, and not just shout out how hard we are and how much we hate this and that, without doing anything about it...thats what a child does.

But hey, thats just my American independant view...I could be wrong.

You quoted me out of context. "to be proud of your country is a disgrace" was YOUR COUNTRY, not mine, not the canadian's, YOUR COUNTRY, for the reasons I gave.

Anarchism is blind ideal. I use it only because its what I'd love most of all - but I realise with people like you around blindly following your country and shooting whichever arab gets in your way.

Practise what you preach you say? Not all anarchists believe in direct revolution. I believe in a slow progression, which would, hypothetically, take longer than mine or my future children's lives. THAT IS WHY YOUR "doesn't anarchism lead itself to direct action" SHOW IGNORANT YOU ARE

I am, to be realistic a socialist. And guess what - I'm gonna try and be an MP (member of parliament) after I graduate from Uni. So I AM practising what I'm preaching, I'm gonna try and make a difference. Sure, its naive to think one person will change the world, but i will try, because otherwise I would be a hypocrite like you: citing the freedoms of the constitution then suggesting compulsary national service.

I'm sorry for any Americans I have offended through these little speeches. But, some of your nation are "a few sandwiches short of a picnic", or "not the sharpest tool in the box" etc.

[thorn_9]

I was under the idea you were in America because your profile says you are:
male
14 years old
Blah
United States, Alabam

Though your post proves you are nothing more than a troll, I will indulge you one last time.

There is nothing I can do to educate you on how serving your country, gives you a sence of ownership over your country, since you are obviously either too young to understand what reality, intention, and ideal means, or too self-centered to try and be a productive member of your society, though you claim you want to 'change' and serve your country in your parliment....who's the hypocrite?

If you think America truly is blindly killing arabs than you are a tool of hype. More so are you aware your canadian country has soldiers in Afganastan blindly killing arabs as well?

Government service or service to your country doesn't mean just killing your countrys enemies either. It could be serving as a teacher, post man, doctor-nurse-etc, police officer, fireman, you get the idea?

The goal is that by serving your country, you take ownership over it, and act against idiots trying to take away our constitution like bush. To stop events like blindly killing arabs, as you say.

But I don't believe you will understand this. you are too far into your coco-puffs, self-centered anarchy-socialist view to have perspective. Your lack of understanding on the creation of the constitution and slavery proves that. As does your lack of understanding of ownership of our country by its people. I hope one day you will take your "I'm better than you" blinders off and are capable of having a real discussion.

[gh2masterwellalmost]

I was under the idea you were in America because your profile says you are:
male
14 years old
Blah
United States, Alabam

Though your post proves you are nothing more than a troll, I will indulge you one last time.

There is nothing I can do to educate you on how serving your country, gives you a sence of ownership over your country, since you are obviously either too young to understand what reality, intention, and ideal means, or too self-centered to try and be a productive member of your society, though you claim you want to 'change' and serve your country in your parliment....who's the hypocrite?

If you think America truly is blindly killing arabs than you are a tool of hype. More so are you aware your canadian country has soldiers in Afganastan blindly killing arabs as well?

Government service or service to your country doesn't mean just killing your countrys enemies either. It could be serving as a teacher, post man, doctor-nurse-etc, police officer, fireman, you get the idea?

The goal is that by serving your country, you take ownership over it, and act against idiots trying to take away our constitution like bush. To stop events like blindly killing arabs, as you say.

But I don't believe you will understand this. you are too far into your coco-puffs, self-centered anarchy-socialist view to have perspective. Your lack of understanding on the creation of the constitution and slavery proves that. As does your lack of understanding of ownership of our country by its people. I hope one day you will take your "I'm better than you" blinders off and are capable of having a real discussion.

Its cos UK wasnt an option. So I had to put Blah, then the first state I saw.

I shall serve my society doing an honest job. Not being, basically, a trained assassin, except trained by my own corrupt state. For example, the jobs you mentioned, they're all well and good. But, if you're doing it WITHIN the armed forces, then that is for the military infantry (or cannon fodder to be more realistic). And then, if my paycheque says "UK Army" or w.e., then I truly am a hypocrite.

I am not a troll. I am an honest kid with an opinion. But, my opinion actually has more thought behind it than yours - I won't repeat my speech which destroyed your arguement to smithereens while you pulled the typical "he's 14, he must be wrong" term.

If I was an adult, my arguement would actually be EVEN MORE improved, and then you'd find some other excuse to hide the fact that you lost to a 14 year old kid in a basic debate - that your arguements are so silly and ridiculous (for that, read my last LONGGGGGGG speech sorry but destroying such an idiot does take time).

The canadians and the British are both in Iraq, and don't I know it. If I wasnt on the journey back from seeing family 200 miles away (which is a big distance in our small country), I would have been at the protest in London.

And your knowledge of slavery and the constitution obviously needs buffering - its common knowledge (for people who aren't in biased education systems, for example, the UK) that George Washington has slaves. And in our not-perfect-either-but-better-than-yours law system we work on past cases - Americans work on twisting an honest constitution to the lawyers gain.

I'm done feeding the military troll. Just go to Iraq if you want - but I won't be standing up in silence when the death toll is announced of the innocent people sent out to die for oil. I'm sorry to put it so bluntly, but its true.

[jordanbeard]

Alberto Gonzales has resigned! His official statement will be broadcast later today!

awesome!

I'll watch it on the Daily Show later...

[newwaytodie]

Promoting violence has never been protected under free speech. Making the leap that promoting violence = opposing the war = free speech is a pretty grand one.

So is calling a "majority" of the military brainwashed. Majority is > 50%. I have several family members in the military and have known even more, who joined befeor Bush was even president, and I've known maybe one person I'd consider "brainwashed." That's not a majority, and yes, it is offensive to assume so.

I understand that you don't like Bush, neither do most americans. (including many in the military). It seems pretty obvious he's not going to be impeached, so what do you suggest be done? People have been talking about the 2008 elections since pretty much right after Bush was re-elected. I don't think there's much opportunity for any real change until then. At least he won't be able to run again...

Exactly. Don't tell me when not to be offended *******. You reap what you sow.

You know here in Michigan we have a little thing called a militia. Institutions that helped win our independence and will protect our freedom if need be. Real partriots know what to do if a tyrannical maniac comes along and tries to seize power. Guerrilla Warfare, it's as American as apple pie.

You're just going to have to face the facts bud. Everything... every single thing on this planet exists to kill or be killed. Thats how nature is. That is in turn how human society is. We're violent dumb creations with very little capacity for understanding. War will never cease to be, and laying down your guns and hoping that it will go away isn't going to get you anywhere but six feet under a pile of dirt.

[gh2masterwellalmost]

Exactly. Don't tell me when not to be offended *******. You reap what you sow.

You know here in Michigan we have a little thing called a militia. Institutions that helped win our independence and will protect our freedom if need be. Real partriots know what to do if a tyrannical maniac comes along and tries to seize power. Guerrilla Warfare, it's as American as apple pie.

You're just going to have to face the facts bud. Everything... every single thing on this planet exists to kill or be killed. Thats how nature is. That is in turn how human society is. We're violent dumb creations with very little capacity for understanding. War will never cease to be, and laying down your guns and hoping that it will go away isn't going to get you anywhere but six feet under a pile of dirt.

Despite the fact I'm totally agreeing with you and I recommend you to go through the hell of my amazingly long speeches on here if you haven't already, but your "American as apple pie" detracts from your arguement. Why? Cos us British invented it centuries and centuries ago (for God's sake my house is older than your country) :P

Sorry to point out something so minor, but I still totally agree with your arguement. A bit. Well, except that I'm pacifist, but in the words of Lenin himself: "The end justifies the means".

[newwaytodie]

You're a pacifist that quotes Lenin?

[gh2masterwellalmost]

You're a pacifist that quotes Lenin?

I read the communist manifesto and think "hey thats great, if Marx predicts that will lead to Government being aboloished eventually I'm for it". But, all the example of communism so far I have disliked for being too authoritarian.

But, Lenin, like Hitler, like Stalin, were all great politicians. I DID NOT say I agreed with Lenin, I used him as an example, because even if you disagree with something you still have to learn about it. I know a ton about anarcho-capitalism - but I also hate it even more than normal capitalism.

I am, by ideal: anarcho-collectivist, and if I could push reality even further: anarcho-communist

And, by realism: socialist.