Aftermarket Bass Pedal Questions

[SirPuttsAlot]

Edit: Removed

[davidshek]

So I'm about to pull the trigger on a Pearl P120P PowerShifter Bass Drum Pedal and a Gibraltar Bass Drum Pad to replace my Stock Pedal. I have a quick question if anyone else has this or a similar setup.

Does the Bass Pedal actually connect to the Gibraltar Practice pad or do they just sit on the floor next to each other?

Good choice of pedal, the Pearl PowerShifter rocks. :)

The pedal will actually clamp directly onto the practice pad, just like it would onto a real kick drum. Movement is not an issue if you're on carpet, both the pedal and pad have extendable spikes that will hold it in place. And if you're on a hard floor, just retract the spikes and the pad has rubber on the bottom to prevent slippage.

If you're going to be attaching the sensor to the practice pad itself, I highly recommend the Loctite Stik n' Seal Universal Adhesive. It's one of the only things I've found that will actually stick to the Gibraltar pad for any length of time. Make sure the adhesive you buy specifies "rubber".

[Grayshadow-PSN]

Has anyone tried the Omega Pedal yet?
http://www.omegapedal.com/

I'm tempted... but it's expensive and I don't want to be the guinea pig. :)

[Poop Shovel]

I really like the way that Omega looks plus they have that double pedal device but for $150.


They also have this one......

http://www.rockbandpedal.net/

[davidshek]

They also have this one......

http://www.advertisingspam.net/

Right, which is pretty much exactly what Putts is already talking about making, only with a much higher quality pedal and pad.

So c'mon people, take your advertising elsewhere. Your responses are completely irrelevant for this thread.

[moshun]

I really like the way that Omega looks plus they have that double pedal device but for $150.


They also have this one......

http://www.rockbandpedal.net/

Wow... 4-6 WEEKS waiting list for that.. Destroyer pedal? Looks pretty solid from the looks of the video on that site (the camera man needs to lay off the zoom tho haha).

[Poop Shovel]

I would imagine they have several pedals out there.

The Omega and Destroyer are the only two I know about. That guy that posts all the Youtube videos uses the Destroyer....his name is something like ssssktz on the Leaderboard

Good thing about the Omega....you can get a double bass that actually works (according to them)

[Grayshadow-PSN]

Right, which is pretty much exactly what Putts is already talking about making, only with a much higher quality pedal and pad.

So c'mon people, take your advertising elsewhere. Your responses are completely irrelevant for this thread.

Meh, I'm not advertising anybody. Mostly in the same situation as the OP - torn between trying to make my own or going for one of the pre-made pedals. The one I mentioned looks like it uses the Pearl P120 anyway, so it's somewhat relevant to the topic .. doesn't use a pad though, so I don't know how well it works. Just curious if anyone has any experience with it. I don't think that merits an advertisement accusation, but whatever.

[kaiserkreb]

Meh, I'm not advertising anybody. Mostly in the same situation as the OP - torn between trying to make my own or going for one of the pre-made pedals. The one I mentioned looks like it uses the Pearl P120 anyway, so it's somewhat relevant to the topic .. doesn't use a pad though, so I don't know how well it works. Just curious if anyone has any experience with it. I don't think that merits an advertisement accusation, but whatever.

I have one on order that should be here soon, I also have another thread going that I will post my findings in. Check there later in the week.

[kaiserkreb]

I e-mailed them about their pedal since they do use the same pedal I was looking to get (Pearl P120 PowerShifter) but it's the connection to the Bass Pad that could be an issue:


However we do change the beater angle so it beats down instead of out. The beater angle could be changed back but you may cause the switch to go out of calibration in the process.


I'm going to skip the Omega Pedal since it's a $25 upcharge for $5 in parts that I'll still have to mess around with to get it to work with the Practice Pad.

I'm pretty sure the reason they changed the beater angle was so that it would be striking on the base, eliminating the need for a practice pad all together...

[telles75]

I have one on order that should be here soon, I also have another thread going that I will post my findings in. Check there later in the week.

I'll appreciate if you can post your findings once you get your hands on the Omega pedal. I am still thinking carefully if I should go and buy the pedal and to the mod myself, or buy the Omega pedal for out of the box functionality.

I have considered 2 pedals for this project:

1) Pulse Pro Single Kick Pedal $26
(http://www.amazon.com/Pulse-Pro-Single-Kick-Pedal/dp/B0002F5J1S)

2) Pearl P120P PowerShifter Bass Drum Pedal $50
(http://www.amazon.com/Pearl-P120P-PowerShifter-Bass-Pedal/dp/B0002E2OFI)

So for half the price if I get to Do It Myself, then I will get the Pulse Pro (which according to reviews is not a bad pedal).

I also agree that using a Bass Pad might give more realistic feel and allow more speed. The 2 options I have considered for this are:

1) Pearl BD10 Bass Drum Practice Pad $60
2) Gibraltar GBDP Bass Drum Pad $50

I still don;t like the idea of paying more money on the pad than on the pedal, so unless I can get a pad off Ebay for cheap price I might look for alternatives.

[davidshek]

1) Pearl BD10 Bass Drum Practice Pad $60
2) Gibraltar GBDP Bass Drum Pad $50

Don't get the Pearl practice pad. I tried it first and it's not nearly as good for this purpose as the Gibraltar. You should be able to find those on Ebay no problem.

[kaiserkreb]

Correct, but I want the practice pad. When I demo'ed one over the weekend, the rebound I got off the Gibraltar was fantastic allowing me to just go faster and faster. Also, what was great is that on long strings of bass kicks, like in WGFA, instead of having to kick each one, with the practice pad it feels like all I have to do is control the bounce off the pad. That means less effort to play by me and I can play a lot longer without any fatigue.

While I have not tried the Omega Pedal and my knee jerk reaction to the beater hitting the base might be completely wrong, but I dismissed it for the following reasons:
Hitting the Base of the drums vs a practice pad is a cool idea from a budget perspective, but I wonder how fast it will be? Your rebound off the base has the beater going up, so you are working against gravity where off a practice pad the beater is going back and down. That means you'll have to increase the tension on the springs or kick harder to get this guy moving fast enough for some sections of some songs.
The newer drum frames (satin/dull finish vs the shiny/smooth finish) is already a less stable frame. With the beater hitting the frame it will either start shifting/twisting the drum pads or just get really annoying after a while.

EDIT: Now, if they sold the Omega Pedal as a kit with the Gibraltar practice pad for $125, I would by that in a heartbeat. I'm all about plug and play :)

Time will tell I guess, I just have to be patient and wait now. I'm thinking it can't possibly be worse than the original one at least. I was going to build my own but I figured this one looked great and for 75 bucks it should be worth it. If nothing else I'll just dismantle it when I get my drum set back and use it for that. Good ole disposable income...

[jonzes]

I did this mod qwith the same parts the op mentioned and once the parts arrived it was about 5 min max to set up. I really don't see any reason to buy it premade from anyone unless they are getting the parts at a bulk discount and can sell it for less than you can get the parts individualy.

Thanks for the tip on the glue, superglue failed miserably so I am still using duct tape to hold mine on.

[davidshek]

Thanks for the tip on the glue, superglue failed miserably so I am still using duct tape to hold mine on.

Yep, I had the same problem. Even duct tape wouldn't stick to mine...hell, electrical tape stuck (slightly) better than duct tape. At first I just wrapped the duct tape all the way around to the back cause nothing would stick to that damn rubber pad.

The Loctite that I mentioned earlier works beautifully though. I applied it to both sensor and pad, attached the sensor, and wrapped it up with duct tape for 24 hours. Took the tape off after that and the sensor never budges. It's great :) But like I said, make sure whatever Loctite you buy specifically says "Rubber" on the package. I believe their Universal Adhesive #1 will do rubber->rubber, but for plastic->rubber, you'll want the Universal #2.

[Grayshadow-PSN]

I just pulled the trigger, the order is in. $100 shipped for the Pedal and Pad to my house.

Is there a link to a particular walkthrough you're going to use, or going to engineer something yourself?

I'm still on the fence about whether to try to make my own or get one premade, but I like your argument about the affects of rebound and gravity using a pad vs. hitting the stand.

[davidshek]

Is there a link to a particular walkthrough you're going to use, or going to engineer something yourself?

Yeah there's been several threads on this, lemme see if I can find one...

http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34342
http://rockband.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2226&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=83
http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28498
http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23557

Any of those will do :)

Just make sure you get the normally-closed sensor, here:

http://www.smarthome.com/7113.html

[smokinjoe]

Well I did order the omega but never did realize it isn't set up to hit against a practice pad, which is exactly what I wanted this pre-made pedal for. Ugggggg, Now I will have to pay a 10% restocking fee if I send this back to them. I did get a practice pad, guitar center ran out of the gibralters but had their own and said they were exactly the same as far as feel goes. I guess I should have read this more clearly.

[tazzmissionx]

I don't like the pedal in general simply because it's a million times more easier and comfortable for me to have a pedal designed for using the heel of your foot.

[davidshek]

David,
Do you have an pictures of your bass pedal? I'm curious about how you attached the magnet/circuit to the practice pad. You tried to describe it in a previous thread, but I guess I just can not picture it in my head.

Hmm, I don't at the moment, but I can take some later when I get home from work. :)


SIDE NOTE: I just purchased "Isn't Love?" and "Willow" off iTunes, great songs! I have to put "Willow" on my DLC Request now, lol.

Awesome! More people need to request our songs so we get some more female-fronted rock in this game :D

[bisq]

Well I did order the omega but never did realize it isn't set up to hit against a practice pad, which is exactly what I wanted this pre-made pedal for. Ugggggg, Now I will have to pay a 10% restocking fee if I send this back to them. I did get a practice pad, guitar center ran out of the gibralters but had their own and said they were exactly the same as far as feel goes. I guess I should have read this more clearly.

I got the destroyer pedal and it works fine with a practice pad (that's how I use it). If you don't want to DIY, that is at least an option.

[smokinjoe]

I got the destroyer pedal and it works fine with a practice pad (that's how I use it). If you don't want to DIY, that is at least an option.

I guess I will find someone that can set up a good pedal for me and just pay them for their troubles. Maybe a case of brew will entice one of my buddies!

[Sour_Diesel]

I was thinking about buying one of those pedals too, more than likely the omega pedal. However, I came across a bass pedal for 25 bucks and thus decided to go ahead and order the other parts from radioshack and smarthome. Took about a week to get the parts and about 20 minutes to put everything in place (make sure to have the sensors the right distance away when the pedal is pressed down). Def. recommend attaching the sensor to the pedal and not the beater/pad unless you get a strong enough adhesive.

Total Cost: $35 Can't go wrong!

[Poop Shovel]

I'm not a drummer in real life so I have a question......

Is there is difference in the Omega pedal where it is set up to hit the bottom of the pedal, the Destroyer that doesn't hit anything, or buying a pedal that is set up to hit a practice pad?? Is it just the "feel" of the practice pad for real drummers??

I noticed most real drummers have been posting about their pedals hitting practice pads.

[kaiserkreb]

Well I did order the omega but never did realize it isn't set up to hit against a practice pad, which is exactly what I wanted this pre-made pedal for. Ugggggg, Now I will have to pay a 10% restocking fee if I send this back to them. I did get a practice pad, guitar center ran out of the gibralters but had their own and said they were exactly the same as far as feel goes. I guess I should have read this more clearly.

so buy a practice pad and change the beater angle, why is everyone so worried about this? It's a REAL PEDAL, it's fully adjustable.


*edit* sorry I didn't read that you had purchased one already, you're set then. Just change the beater angle.

[davidshek]

But how will you feel if someguy913 or CenterStrain get's a higher score than you on drums :)

Somehow I just don't see that happening, but ya never know! ;) I don't pay much attention to the leaderboards (as you can see by my like 900th rank on drums).

[davidshek]

Since Putts asked, here are some pictures of my setup:

This one shows where I have the sensor attached to the pad:
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee298/davidshek/kickpad1.jpg

This one basically shows the same thing, from another angle, and also the other part of the sensor taped onto the beater arm:
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee298/davidshek/kickpad2.jpg

And this one shows what they look like when the pedal is pressed down:
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee298/davidshek/kickpad3.jpg

The tape that you might notice on the pad in the 2nd picture is just there to hold the wire back on the pad, just to keep it out of the way. You can also see that I scuffed the pad a little bit with sandpaper where the sensor is attached. That was just to make sure the Loctite would get a better hold on it.

[davidshek]

Oh, I like that method. It will keep the wires in a central location for when I get crazy enough to add the Slave Conversion for my PowerShifter to my setup.

Yep, there's still plenty of room on there for another sensor/beater.

One of these days I'll get around to actually soldering the wires onto the sensor screws, I just haven't yet. The reason being, see how the bottom split of the wire is encased in rubber, but the top one isn't? That's how it comes, and the top wire already snapped once, causing me to have to cut the wire and re-strip it. So I'll probably solder them onto the screws and reinforce it all with some hot glue or something.

[MrBrownstain420]

I'll appreciate if you can post your findings once you get your hands on the Omega pedal. I am still thinking carefully if I should go and buy the pedal and to the mod myself, or buy the Omega pedal for out of the box functionality.

I have considered 2 pedals for this project:

1) Pulse Pro Single Kick Pedal $26
(http://www.amazon.com/Pulse-Pro-Single-Kick-Pedal/dp/B0002F5J1S)




Don't buy the pulse pro... I tried using it... bad idea.... bad, BAD idea.

After making well over 100 of these things (and have another 200 on the way), no beater is simply easier. Think in term of punching something. Is it easier to punch a wall, or punch thin air? I have spent countless hours with the whole beater issue, and have decided that no-beater is best.... although it adds more realism to the game. Ask sskitzzo, he'll tell you that he tried the beater pad issue, and I even offered to send him one, but he declined because he just didn't like it.

I haven't tried the pearl pedal yet, only because the dixon seemed just as solid, and it has 2 springs.It is from kaman (who actually distributes gibraltar, among with many MANY other musical items with a catalog as big as a phone book) and it is a solid pedal! I'm not going to say if it is worse or better than the pearl, but I'm going to invest into one of pearl p120's and see if it is worth the extra 10 per pedal, or I may just offer both. The pedal with base plates killed me because having them shipped to me, than having them shipped out (some clock in at 10 lbs, vs. the dixon 711's 5).

[Sskitzzo]

Here's my opinions on things:

The Destroyer pedal has enabled me to shatter my old high scores and basically have way less leg fatigue, pull off insanely fast double kick hits with the heel-toe method, and i would totally reccomend it.

No, i'm not advertising, i'm not getting paid to say this, i'm not getting jack **** to say this. The reason i'm talking about it is because i'm really not lying, it helps leagues in many ways when it comes to RB drums.

The Omega i've never tried: it looks great and durable, and i'm sure it's just as good as the Destroyer, but honestly, i'd *never* use double bass on this game: everything in this game was designed for AND IS POSSIBLE with one foot pedal, so i think using two beaters/pedals is simply cheating.

Yes, this includes the crazy bass at 4:22 or so on And Justice For All, the hits on Ride The Lightning, the kicks on Tom Sawyer, and so forth, all of it is possible with one pedal, and has been done by people before.

As for the beater issue, here's my take on it:

Pros for beater:
-Gives counterweight to pedal, allowing pedal hits to have more inertia and thus takes less work
-Gives feeling of "real" drumset

Cons for beater:
-You need a pad to hit, and unless you calibrate it right to activate the pedal right as you hit the pad, or you buy one of the really expensive sensor-pads (as far as i know those are the only two ways), it can be a huge pain.
-Beater may cause extra fatigue as it's more weight to move around, depending on your leg position/beater size

So essentially I personally don't use one because I don't want to pay for a super expensive sensor pad, and also because I personally have nowhere to put it with the way my drums are setup (there's a suitcase right behind my drums, locking it in place). That, and i've gotten kind of used to not having a beater, haha.

[SamStone]

I just bought a Pearl P-120 Powershifter today for 50 bucks. I tried hitting the beater on the frame, and I don't recommend it. It was loud and made the drums vibrate.

I'm torn on using the beater or not. I tore my old Rock Band pedal apart and took out the reed switch and rare earth magnet, and plan to mount them on the new pedal, to save a trip to Radio Shack to pick up a sensor. I thought I'd try this first.

I've got one of these Vic Firth (http://www.vicfirth.com/products/pads.html) practice pads, which are something like 15 bucks. The pad is on a solid base, with a screw mount on the back for mounting it on a frame. I was thinking of making a four-legged box that fits close over the drum support legs (but standing on its own feet, not resting on the drums), mounting the practice pad horizontally on it, then adjusting the beater so that it's striking horizontally instead of vertically. Then I was going to mount the sensor on the hard frame above the pad and mount the magnet on the beater so it's the right distance away.

Then lock the pedal and box together with metal strapping using the mounting posts on the pedal, to make sure everything stays in alignment.

Either that, or I'll put a doorstopper on the bottom, and duct tape the things to the pedal and base... :)

[CENACHAINGANG54]

So I'm about to pull the trigger on a Pearl P120P PowerShifter Bass Drum Pedal and a Gibraltar Bass Drum Pad to replace my Stock Pedal. I have a quick question if anyone else has this or a similar setup.

Does the Bass Pedal actually connect to the Gibraltar Practice pad or do they just sit on the floor next to each other?

If they just sit next to each other, is movement or stability an issue?

If you are going to spend the money then you might as well try the Omega pedal. It is made using the Pearl P120P and you will not need a practice pad. Check it out at www.omegapedal.com

[jonzes]

Hey sir, I know this is a different discussion but I got more 'precise' responce from my similar setup by mounting the sensor offset on the face of the pad and the non-wired part (magnet) on the striker arm so they do not collide but slide next ot each other. It can cause double hits if you let the hammer 'bounce' a lot but I find it easy to get fast controlled hits this way and it triggers at teh exact moment the striker hits.

Ok back to your discussion.

[md95]

I like the above solution as pictured. It makes more sense to mount the magnet sensors on the pedal instead of the pad. Thinking about the cymbals mod thread using frizbee golf disks, couldnt you use one of those as a practice pad? Get a mouse pad and cut it out to put over the disk, and then make a simple mount for the disk. Might work ok, and be a much cheaper option over a practice pad, for those who can put something custom like that together. I may try it :) I suppose a true practice pad will give the most lifelike rebound though.

[davidshek]

Also, I replaced my stock beater with the following beater which seems much better for use with the practice pad

I played with this setup all weekend without any issues, it's been fantastic.

Hey that beater looks familiar...where'd you get the idea for that one? :cool:

[maskofskin]

So yeah... I read all of this and figure I'll just wait for one of you entrepreneur types to sell a complete pedal/beater/practice pad kit. :P

[maskofskin]

Why? If you can use Duct Tape and a Screwdriver and you have 5 mins it's very easy. This is what you need:

Gibraltar GBDP Bass Drum Pad: $50 (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Gibraltar-GBDP-Bass-Drum-Pad?sku=446025)
Gibraltar Lightweight Drum Beater: $10 (Optional) (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Gibraltar-Lightweight-Drum-Beater?sku=446521)
Pearl P120P PowerShifter Bass Drum Pedal: $50 (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Pearl-P120P-PowerShifter-Bass-Drum-Pedal?sku=448782)
Magnetic Contact Switch For Closed Circuits: $3 (http://www.smarthome.com/7113.html)
6-Ft. Shielded Cable, 1/8" Plug to Stripped Wires: $3.50 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103854)

Because I'm a very busy (lazy) man...

Actually, I guess it just sounds harder than it is. Thanks for putting up the list of stuff I'd need!

Still, anyone that wanted to package this all together would probably make some money.

[maskofskin]

http://boards.altgn.com/imagedump/347480d5c3f4a9d3.jpg

So I went through with building this thing thanks to SirPutts instructions. Now, for anyone else using a similar setup, how do you have the kit set up so the pedal is a comfortable spot? I;ve removed the front support but the pedal is still a little too far left.

[Serpentd]

http://boards.altgn.com/imagedump/347480d5c3f4a9d3.jpg

So I went through with building this thing thanks to SirPutts instructions. Now, for anyone else using a similar setup, how do you have the kit set up so the pedal is a comfortable spot? I;ve removed the front support but the pedal is still a little too far left.


The only thing you can do really is just unscrew your pedal from the base of the practice pad and move it to the right more. You don't have to have the pedal hit directly in the middle of the pad. I would only scoot it over about 3 inches or so. Sort like the equivalent of you having a double pedal (2 beaters hitting the pad) for double bass. Make sence.

So pretend you have 2 beaters hitting your pad (Just like a double pedal would do for double bass). You would obviously have a slight gap between the two beaters, this gap would be in the center of your pad. So I would say it would be safe to move your pedal over that much. Maybe more depending on how much room the bracket and clamping area you have on your practice pad.

If it feels like your loosing too much rebound, I would either try the original beater because it's heavier and will give the head of the beater more momentum. I personally prefer the heavier beaters over the lighter beaters but that's personal preference. Also you can adjust the powershifter all the way forward for a stronger feel if you haven't tried that, only if needed mind you. Anyway, good luck. I hope I didn't give you too much info and mess you up.LOL;):)

Also, I have the exact same set up as you do other then the beater. I'm not sure if your comfortable with the distance of the pedal from the drums. If you want them closer to the drums, remove the rear cross bar and use one in the front. The front crossbar will fit inbetween the practice pad and the pedal clamp. I did raise my drums up a little at the base by putting these door stoppers on the bottom of the drums (about an inch higher then stock). I'm not sure if this is necessary or not to help clear the clamp portion of the pedal and the crossbar. I was just messing with so many different things that I never took them off. So just a little more info if you wanted to try out different positions. Obviously if your comfortable with the distance, ignore this last paragraph. Good Luck, let us know how it works out for you.:)

[Serpentd]

The only thing lightweight about the the beater he purchased is the name. That beater feels just as heavy as the stock Pearl Pedal's beater.


Cool. So then what exactly is the purpose of this beater then? Being serious because I use the same Gibraltor practice pad as everyone else here, also am using the 120P. Also just using the felt side of the original pearl beater. Thanks.:)

[awizardly]

You can hook the omega pedal up to a bass drum pad. That's the way mine is setup. You just have to calibrate the sensor a little to work with the different position of the beater. I've posted a couple times on the omega threads and omega vs destroyer threads.

[chrisisbored24]

yea the magnetic contact pedal mod is great, very simple, relatively inexpensive. i noticed a few people talking about double bass (the omega pedal twin rocker in particular) if anyone is interested i have a version of this circuit available, does the same thing, allows users to have 2 pedals and register one if the other is already down. if anyone is interested feel free to send me a pm or email at chrisisbored24@hotmail.com mine are cheaper shipped then the twin rocker without shipping. :)

[ExDBigysmals]

still really kool bass pedal

[davidshek]

I wanted something with more surface area to hit the practice pad with and since David had good luck with his I just copied him.

I like the feel of the Gibraltar Lightweight Drum Beater over the stock, it feels a bit more solid. I doubt there was any performance increase/decrease, but it feels good and after 1 month my practice pad doesn't show any wear.

Yeah there's nothing out of the ordinary about that particular beater. I happened to have an extra one laying around for some reason, so when I built my RB pedal, it's the one I used. I didn't pick it over any other beater for any special reason.

When Putts was having problems with his and asked me what beater I was using, I told him and he bought one. That's all there is to it, no less, no more :)