two pence on rock band from someone looking forward to the game

[bandro]

if we're not allowed opinions then just lock this.

but the reason why i will not be buying rock band is:
for what it is, it's too much.
I can buy a brand new xbox 360 for the same price.
despite the justified costs responsible for the price, it is clearly not good enough.
i mean - do you think it is feasible for someone to spend almost £200 on one game? (regardless of the equipment needed to play it?)

if the answer is no (which for me it is), then nothing can justify this price.

i remember reading "the price isn't magically going to fall".
but - this also applies to me, and everyone i know:
"the game isn't magically going to sell".

[bandro]

Also, do the instruments actually work with other games? Or can you plug them into amps and play them in a real band?

Or should we just call the instrument edition the "bundled-useless-peripherals-package"?

Thats like buying an xbox controller and trying to use it without an xbox?!

[AnarchyintheUK]

Woah calm down. Believe me its worth it. So you have to pay alittle bit more play it alittle bit more and get your moneys worth.

[C-Pr0mpt]

Also, do the instruments actually work with other games? Or can you plug them into amps and play them in a real band?

Or should we just call the instrument edition the "bundled-useless-peripherals-package"?

Thats like buying an xbox controller and trying to use it without an xbox?!

I think you just answered your own question there....

[Dzhokhar]

You are allowed to express your opinion on this forum. In the case of the particular opinion you've expressed, there is already a designated thread.

In before the lock.

[C-Pr0mpt]

if we're not allowed opinions then just lock this.

but the reason why i will not be buying rock band is:
for what it is, it's too much.
I can buy a brand new xbox 360 for the same price.
despite the justified costs responsible for the price, it is clearly not good enough.
i mean - do you think it is feasible for someone to spend almost £200 on one game? (regardless of the equipment needed to play it?)

if the answer is no (which for me it is), then nothing can justify this price.

i remember reading "the price isn't magically going to fall".
but - this also applies to me, and everyone i know:
"the game isn't magically going to sell".

For you it may not be worth the price. That's a fair opinion. You also won't be alone. Many people will agree with you. Though at the same time, many people will disagree with you and it will be worth it to them.

Though just because it's not worth it to you, don't fool yourself into thinking the game will not sell, trust me it will. It may not sell as well as it has in the states, but it will sell.

I do feel for you guys, it is quite a price difference.

[DarkEternal37]

You are allowed to express your opinion on this forum. In the case of the particular opinion you've expressed, there is already a designated thread.

In before the lock.

What Dzhokhar said. Keep it to the designated thread in the Community Hits forum. We don't need 100 different threads about this.

[undertow]

Of course your allowed to have an opinion. Some people are able to afford luxuries, sorry for you, that you cannot.

And I'm fairly certain you cannot buy a brand new xbox 360 for 200 in the UK, as they are $300 here in the US alone. Also, even if you bought the XBOX 360 alone for twice as much as what Rock Band cost, you still have to buy games for it, and if you want to play with friends, especially if you wanted to play any other game that allowed four people, you would need to buy three controllers, which is roughly 60-70% of the cost of Rock Band alone, not to mention the game you'd have to buy also, so in short ANY game you want to play four people with, is going to cost you (IN US DOLLARS) $59.99 + $39.99 + $39.99 + $39.99 = $179.96 ... oh btw, Rock Band with FOUR players, costs $169.99.

So you have fun with your delusion of having other games cost less.

[iapetus]

And I'm fairly certain you cannot buy a brand new xbox 360 for 200 in the UK, as they are $300 here in the US alone.

http://www.game.co.uk/Xbox360/Hardware/Console/~r332626/Xbox-360-Premium-Console/

£199.99

Or if you're not fussy about the hard drive:

http://www.game.co.uk/Xbox360/Hardware/Console/~r332927/Xbox-360-Arcade-Console/

£159.99

GAME are not exactly famous for being cheap, either - you can get better deals elsewhere.


Also, even if you bought the XBOX 360 alone for twice as much as what Rock Band cost

By 'twice as much' you mean '£20 more' or '£20 less'. HTH.

To the original poster, there's a perfectly serviceable thread for discussing this here (http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42108).

[undertow]

iapetus, thank you for correcting me, I genuinely had no idea.

With what you've just shown me, than technically doesnt the price of the Xbox 360 and Rock Band average itself out to be pretty much on par with what we pay for an Xbox 360 and Rock Band here in the States? Too busy watching the Master's Tournament to break it down fuly.

[Dzhokhar]

iapetus, thank you for correcting me, I genuinely had no idea.

With what you've just shown me, than technically doesnt the price of the Xbox 360 and Rock Band average itself out to be pretty much on par with what we pay for an Xbox 360 and Rock Band here in the States? Too busy watching the Master's Tournament to break it down fuly.

You're neglecting the fact that the Pound is worth almost twice as much as the Dollar.

[undertow]

You're neglecting the fact that the Pound is worth almost twice as much as the Dollar.

I thought I was taking that into consideration.

US:
Xbox 360 - $299.99
Rock Band - $169.99
Total: $469.98 before Tax

Euro:
Xbox 360 - 159 pounds
Rock Band - 189 pounds
Total - 348 pounds with Tax

I realize it's not exactly the same essential cost, but it's not as bad as people are making it out to be. The kicker is that Rock Band in Europe is simply more than a 360 by itself, that alone is just shocking.

[iapetus]

iapetus, thank you for correcting me, I genuinely had no idea.

No worries. We get a good deal on the 360 hardware at the moment. You guys are probably due a price cut.


With what you've just shown me, than technically doesnt the price of the Xbox 360 and Rock Band average itself out to be pretty much on par with what we pay for an Xbox 360 and Rock Band here in the States? Too busy watching the Master's Tournament to break it down fuly.

US Rock Band: $169.99
US Premium 360: $349.99 (I'm not playing Rock Band without DLC)
Total US: $519.98

UK Rock Band: £179.98
UK Premium 360: £199.99
Total UK: £379.97
Totalk UK in $: $747.01

Still a little bit more expensive - to the tune of $230 or so. ;) The whole set is pretty much in line with what you'd normally expect to pay as mark-up over US prices, but that's because the 360 is very reasonable and Rock Band is badly overpriced.

Doesn't work out for me (and many, many others) because I already have the 360. :D

[undertow]

There's my error, I didn't realize the conversion rate was 2.0. I thought it was 1.6
Using your 379.97 figure above, I thought that was 607.95 in US at a conversion rate of 1.6 and 607.95 with tax compared to $560.27 (with 7.75% Tax) US, didn't seem that much of a stretch to me. With the price being $747.01, that's a whole other issue and I apologize for my lack of information.

If I'm not mistaken ( and it looks like I could be ) doesn't Europe (way to much of a generalization) get paid basically $2-3 more per hour on average compared to the US? This could easily make up the difference in price and then some.

[Dzhokhar]

There are a great many differences between Europe and the US that easily explain the price difference. Harmonix has said that, but not gone into detail while an assortment of people on this forum have filled in that detail.

Despite all of this, a great many Europeans on this forum are in denial and continue to whine.

[iapetus]

There are a great many differences between Europe and the US that easily explain the price difference. Harmonix has said that, but not gone into detail while an assortment of people on this forum have filled in that detail.

What nobody has filled in at all is why these vaguely hand-waving described differences cause most products to increase in price by up to 50% when purchased on this side of the Atlantic, but cause Rock Band to increase in price by almost 110%. The same people bring them up again and again, and then softly and silently vanish away when called upon to explain why it's only one title that is hit by them in this way.


Despite all of this, a great many Europeans on this forum are in denial and continue to whine.

Despite this, a (thankfully rather small) number of Americans choose to smugly insist that nobody has anything to complain about, while they're happily playing their copies of Rock Band that EA are trying to overcharge us to subsidise, and then whine when people see it as unreasonable that the mark-up on this game is double the normal amount.

[Dzhokhar]

What nobody has filled in at all is why these vaguely hand-waving described differences cause most products to increase in price by up to 50% when purchased on this side of the Atlantic, but cause Rock Band to increase in price by almost 110%. The same people bring them up again and again, and then softly and silently vanish away when called upon to explain why it's only one title that is hit by them in this way.

How about this one, the cost of shipping is substantially higher in Europe than in the US. It affects other products less than Rock Band because a much higher percentage of the cost of Rock Band is shipping, compared to other products.

If the cost of shipping an Xbox to Europe is twice what it is to ship that same Xbox to the US, the price goes up let's say $50, or roughly 15%. Now, the Rock Band instruments are close to twice as large as an Xbox, but cost much less to manufacture. As a result, the shipping cost goes up by $75, instead of $50, and a full ~50% due to the lower manufacturing cost.

Then you can add on the 17-20% tax, and the higher (but optional) retail markup to get a RRP roughly double that of the US.

[iapetus]

How about this one, the cost of shipping is substantially higher in Europe than in the US. It affects other products less than Rock Band because a much higher percentage of the cost of Rock Band is shipping, compared to other products.

We've been over this. We've looked at it from the point of view of cheaper, bulkier products (where shipping is an even higher percentage of the cost of Rock Band), from the point of view of other bulky gaming products such as Steel Batallion (which still hit the 50% mark-up level) and from the point of view of raw price (where a quote on shipping from China to the UK came in at £4 per unit for goods the size of Rock Band, without the benefit of volume discounts). None of these suggest that extra shipping comes close to covering the £50 discrepancy.

[Droosies]

if we're not allowed opinions then just lock this.

but the reason why i will not be buying rock band is:
for what it is, it's too much.
I can buy a brand new xbox 360 for the same price.
despite the justified costs responsible for the price, it is clearly not good enough.
i mean - do you think it is feasible for someone to spend almost £200 on one game? (regardless of the equipment needed to play it?)

if the answer is no (which for me it is), then nothing can justify this price.

i remember reading "the price isn't magically going to fall".
but - this also applies to me, and everyone i know:
"the game isn't magically going to sell".

Here's an idea numbnuts. Instead of whining like a 3 year old with a skinned knee about the price, try doing this. From what I understand, everything is being sold seperately over there. So buy the game and use a PC mic and work on your Vox career. Once that's done, buy the guitar peripheral. Now you have a guitar career going. When that's done, go out and get the drum kit. Boom. You have the entire game now and instead of crying like a ***** about the price, you've already been enjoying the game for months and have always been adding something new. Don't like American items getting taxed? Sorry. Talk to your government. Either that or move your ass over here. But something tells me that would be a lot more than buying Rock Band.

[iapetus]

[Various blitherings]

Part of the tax goes towards an education system that (tries to) promote basic literacy. Perhaps you could apparently do with moving to Europe to take advantage of it. People aren't complaining about the goods being taxed. They're complaining about the price relative to other gaming products (also taxed, in case you didn't grasp that basic concept), which is higher over here than it is over there. Your brilliant scheme makes things worse rather than better, as anyone with the ability to do basic maths would be able to tell you - the price of buying the peripherals individually is even higher than the price of buying them in a single set. Go on, find yourself a calculator or get someone with an IQ higher than their shoe size to help you out - it's true for the US prices just as much as it is for the UK ones.

[killerewok]

Remember, everyone is entitled to an opinion, just like everyone else is entitled to tell you your opinion is wrong. Freedom of speech works both ways. People tend to forget that.

If it's not worth it to you, don't buy it. It's clearly making boku bucks with only the state-side release, so I'm sure you won't be missed. There are plenty of people over there paying just as much to import it early, so clearly there is a demand, and people will pay the asking price for the game. I'm sorry you will miss out.

[Dzhokhar]

We've been over this. We've looked at it from the point of view of cheaper, bulkier products (where shipping is an even higher percentage of the cost of Rock Band), from the point of view of other bulky gaming products such as Steel Batallion (which still hit the 50% mark-up level) and from the point of view of raw price (where a quote on shipping from China to the UK came in at £4 per unit for goods the size of Rock Band, without the benefit of volume discounts). None of these suggest that extra shipping comes close to covering the £50 discrepancy.

If you're willing to wait 3 months for a shipment by mule and risk getting your instruments smashed into little pieces in the process, that sounds like a reasonable price. Also, the Steel Battalion controllers weren't manufactured in China.

[iapetus]

If you're willing to wait 3 months for a shipment by mule and risk getting your instruments smashed into little pieces in the process, that sounds like a reasonable price.

It's a shipment by ship, smart-arse. Which has already been confirmed by Greg as the way that Rock Band is shipped. It's also a single quote obtained by someone with no business leverage and receiving no bulk discounts - EA would be likely to get a better deal, not a worse one. Certainly not one that's over an order of magnitude worse.


Also, the Steel Battalion controllers weren't manufactured in China.

Fair enough. Where were they manufactured, out of interest?

[Dzhokhar]

It's a shipment by ship, smart-arse. Which has already been confirmed by Greg as the way that Rock Band is shipped. It's also a single quote obtained by someone with no business leverage and receiving no bulk discounts - EA would be likely to get a better deal, not a worse one. Certainly not one that's over an order of magnitude worse.



Fair enough. Where were they manufactured, out of interest?

The USA. I would actually expect the shipping difference to be a bigger factor for it than Rock Band, but then again, it might be a heck of a lot cheaper to ship across the Atlantic than to ship across Asia (I'm no expert).

Also, the quote that you saw was probably just a quote from the port in China to the port in the UK, it doesn't include distribution in the UK.

[tidu]

:P I misread your title for one that was suggesting Sixpence None the Richer for Rock Band... It might work.

[iapetus]

The USA. I would actually expect the shipping difference to be a bigger factor for it than Rock Band, but then again, it might be a heck of a lot cheaper to ship across the Atlantic than to ship across Asia (I'm no expert).

A large part of the 'it's-the-shipping-dummy' argument depends on UK fuel prices and the assumption that shipping to Europe is expensive because it's to Europe, though. You'd expect that to have kicked in there if it were a major factor.

There's a huge amount of shipping going on from China to the UK - just as with the US, they manufacture a large amount of our consumer goods over there - and I'd expect economies to be greater as a result, with more competition and more volume coming through.


Also, the quote that you saw was probably just a quote from the port in China to the port in the UK, it doesn't include distribution in the UK.

True. But while fuel costs are higher in the UK, distances are far smaller. You can get from the most distant end of the country to the other end in 800 miles or so. A similar trip in the US is going to take you almost 3000 miles. And in the UK there are major ports pretty much in the middle of the country, which the US doesn't really have for obvious reasons. Cost per mile might easily be two or three times as much, but the number of miles to cover is lower by a similar amount.

[ECExBLINGZ]

By 'twice as much' you mean '£20 more' or '£20 less'.
http://www.game.co.uk/Xbox360/Hardware/Accessory/~r334451/Rock-Band-Band-in-a-Box/
pretty sure that £129 is £70 away from £199

[ECExBLINGZ]

I thought I was taking that into consideration.

US:
Xbox 360 - $299.99
Rock Band - $169.99
Total: $469.98 before Tax

Euro:
Xbox 360 - 159 pounds
Rock Band - 189 pounds
Total - 348 pounds with Tax

I realize it's not exactly the same essential cost, but it's not as bad as people are making it out to be. The kicker is that Rock Band in Europe is simply more than a 360 by itself, that alone is just shocking.
http://www.game.co.uk/Xbox360/Hardware/Accessory/~r334451/Rock-Band-Band-in-a-Box/
Rock Band is listed at 129 Pounds with delivery

[iapetus]

http://www.game.co.uk/Xbox360/Hardware/Accessory/~r334451/Rock-Band-Band-in-a-Box/
Rock Band is listed at 129 Pounds with delivery


Rock Band: Band in a Box Contains:

* Rock Band Fender Stratocaster Guitar Controller.
* Rock Band Drum Kit Controller.
* Rock Band Microphone.

Do you see anything missing from that list?

Unless you really like playing with plastic musical instrument replicas, you might want to buy the game as well (http://www.game.co.uk/Xbox360/Action/~r333679/Rock-Band/), listed at £50.

If the game were in the Band in a Box bundle then there would be far fewer people complaining, and I'd be laughing at them and explaining the error of their ways to them while counting the days until my pre-order shipped.

[litaljohn]

If the game were in the Band in a Box bundle then there would be far fewer people complaining,

actually there would most likely be far more complaints. The reason as already stated on the official announcement that was made with all this discussion is that each country in Europe gets its own manual, so there are separate divisions that take care of that. Meanwhile the instruments themselves are made in china. By making the game separate from the bundle it allows to cut out a middle step of shipping the bundle to separate warehouses where the boxes must then each be opened have the game inserted and then reshipped yet another time.
It also would screw over some countries as well. If a game sells well in one but not another you would have a shortage of peripherals in one country while the other would sit and collect dust in another since the game and peripheral bundle would be tied together......

this way actually saves some cost on the consumer and decreases the likelihood of a shortage

[Daesania]

Feel free to address your concerns here: http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36628


Locking this thread.