sound questions...

[sauhamm]

i searched but didnt find...

has anyone asked about the sound? as in mono, stereo, dolby, dts etc?

cause guitar hero II for the 360 sucked it up bad in my option on any type of discreet audio setup

on a 5.1 setup - the crowd, drums, vocals, and player 1 guitar all came out of the main speakers [left and right]

the center channel? in game it only output when you made a mistake or whatever player 2 was doing [lead or bass/rhythm]

normally the center channel provides the majority of the foreground audio - not so ghii for the x360

it was preached how all the tracks and audio were remastered for 5.1 audio on the x360 - but in all truths a majority of the sounds were garbled together on the main [stereo] speakers

so i know rb is on a whole new engine but its made by the same people

and so far i think all the road setups are stereo - so no real help there

so does any of the devs or you informed individuals know how the audio is going to come through on a 5.1 or better discreet setup?

-sau

[Xzyliac]

Harmonix hasn't spoken much on this but granted a new engine is there. The fact that it's the same people really has nothing to do with it when the game you're comparing this new engine to was a port.

I fully expect 5.1 in full effect but I can't say "HELL YEAH!" Just I expect it.

I'm pretty sure somebody blogged about sound not to long ago. Anybody else remember this?

[Bobble]

Harmonix hasn't spoken much on this but granted a new engine is there. The fact that it's the same people really has nothing to do with it when the game you're comparing this new engine to was a port.

I fully expect 5.1 in full effect but I can't say "HELL YEAH!" Just I expect it.

I'm pretty sure somebody blogged about sound not to long ago. Anybody else remember this?

I think it's a pretty safe bet, you don't wanna add 3 different instruments, have them all making their own noises and mistakes and force them to only 2 speakers. I'd wanna be standing near the right speakers and hear the sound and mistakes of whoever's on the right, that way I know that weird scratch was me messin up and not the lead.

[tf5_bassist]

The issue with 5.1 discreet audio (and higher) when in use with music is that it's very tough to quantify which mix is "the best" and most "natural". True, the center channel generally delivers the majority of foreground sounds, such as dialog when the actor is right in front of you, or someone walking in front of you (you=perspective of the camera), however this does not translate well into music. When you listen to music, yes, you want to have some separation and spatial effects, but there are plenty of times when the typical 5.1 setup isn't fully conducive to delivering music.

Especially with RB, emulating a live sound environment (in theme/setting), however with studio tracks and changing camera angles. To me, it's going to be very distracting to have a 5.1 discreet mix that changes with the camera angle so that at one moment the vocals are in the front and drums in the back to some odd perpendicular split (vocals on the left, drums on the right, guitar in front, bass in back or something). This is why live dvds aren't mixed that way.

What COULD be done, however, as it was touched on before, vocals coming from center and some front-left (fl) and front-right (fr) bass coming from fl or fr and guitar coming from the opposite with a portion coming from back-right (br) and back-left (bl) to create a more surrounding faded mix, and drums coming from a primary mix of br and bl. But the issue with that, emulating a stage environment, the guitar sounds come from almost entirely behind the musicians in smaller venues, whereas in larger venues you kind of hear the sound coming from behind you, but mostly you hear it from your monitors in front of you, or the house mains projecting into the venue. It's a bit difficult to emulate this, especially when most of the time you're looking at the stage from the crowd's perspective, in which case all you're hearing is house mains. Coming back up to stereo left/right and a sh!t-ton of subs.

I think a (mainly) stereo mix is really the best way to go, but of course to support equal mix coming from front and back.

[Axel32]

In a nutshell Bassist.. I think what you said is exactly what he meant..

Here's my take on it..

I think that the crowd should come from the fl fr and c, just not as loud, as well as the vocals coming from center, and a litlle fl and fr. and Guitar and bass get fl or fr as well as a little from br and bl but not as much as the drums in the back. That way, by giving the guitar in the left and right, you get a more semi-circle sounds like if you were standing next to your amps.

Summary for people who don't like reading:
Vocals: Center, a little front left and front right
Guitar: Front Left and a Little Back Left, or Front Right and a Little Back Right
Bass: Front Right and a Little Back Right or Front Left and a Little Back Left
Drums: Back Left and Back Right
Crowd: softly out of Center, front left, and front right.

That's my take, I think I'll stick to stereo though ^_^

[Bobble]

That's exactly what I meant, I'm just too lazy to type it all. That way not only do you hear your own screwups more than others, but when theres a solo or an intro with only one instrument going, everyone in the room hears it coming from the direction of the soloist, which creates that cool effect when everyone comes back in and sounds like a band again. A good example of this is Wolfmother's Woman, during the main riff played as the intro, the sound seems to be coming from just one side, then the band drops in and it fills that void.

And I'm definitely thinking the sound shouldn't change with the camera perspective cause that'd be much too confusing.

[tf5_bassist]

I'm definitely a fan of stereo separation, I'll say that. Whenever I've done any recording or engineering, I always use stereo panning/positioning to the fullest extent I can get away with. But I just don't think that extreme positioning would be beneficial to RB. I say, keep the mix relatively close to the original studio mix as possible. Otherwise, HMX might as well be trying to act not just as developers, but as front-of-house mix engineers.

"Yeah, uh, can I get more me in the monitors? Oh, that's too much--okay, goose it up just a c-hair... yeah, that's sweet."

Stick with a basic studio-ish mix, and that will most likely be the most cohesive way to play it.

But maybe that's just me, cause I don't have a 5.1 system in my house.

Yet.


Eh, we'll see what happens.

[sauhamm]

see i dont have a problem at all with varying mix types or even different available options

my problem with ghii is the exclusivity of the 2nd player to the center channel regardless of the setup

it honestly almost seems as an after thought - all the main menu audio and selections comes through the center

then once the game starts [say you're playing a single player game] the center only gets mistakes, when you acquire star power and then once star power is used [it's a very light effect... quite useless actually]

now my center and mains are balanced - tone and volume

and i cant tell you how strange it is to play a song and hear player 2 coming from a different place as the rest of the band

being a game where sound is the emphasis - i think there should be options for all or at least the majority of speaker configs

well we'll see soon enough - i for one cant wait ... more the drums than anything else as ive already played more gh than is healthy for me :)

as it's been said - ghii was more a port from the ps2 version - so for the all new engines of both rb and gh [as i will be buying gh3... who wouldnt?] heres to hoping they get it 'right'

[tf5_bassist]

see i dont have a problem at all with varying mix types or even different available options

my problem with ghii is the exclusivity of the 2nd player to the center channel regardless of the setup


See, I've never played GH2 on a surround rig, so I've never ran into this myself, but you're saying that 95% of the mix comes from all speakers, however, player 2 comes from the center? Now that's frickin' weird.

And yes, I do definitely hope that they give a crap-ton of audio options, since I'm sure that not everyone will like more discreet mixes, and not everyone will like more stereo mixes. But considering how much time, effort, energy, and precision they put into eliminating the HD lag issue, including compensation for audio receivers, I highly doubt that discreet surround mixes (5.1 and higher) will be overlooked.

[sauhamm]

...but you're saying that 95% of the mix comes from all speakers, however, player 2 comes from the center? Now that's frickin' weird.

strange indeed - in the menu before a song - all the audio except the bass comes from the mains [l and r] - the sub gets a little lfe and the surrounds get a nice mix of crowd noise

it works - but not as well as it should...

but then again... everyone's a critic nowadays right

i have all faith that regardless im going to play until i cant see straight

when is this game out? certainly we can just skip october and go straight to nov...

[Electric_Zen]

I say, keep the mix relatively close to the original studio mix as possible. Otherwise, HMX might as well be trying to act not just as developers, but as front-of-house mix engineers.

I disagree, because the intent here is not to replicate the studio recording experience, but rather to simulate a live performance. And a live performance is going to sound different.

A smooth melding is great for listening to a produced album, but when playing you want to be able to distinctly hear your instrument's contribution to the song. A general framework where the strings lean left and right, the singer leans center, and the drums lean rear would work very well (and complement the visual representation of the performance).

For additional tracks (keyboard, backing vocals, etc.), I agree that there is no need to futz with the separation. These can simulate pre-recorded tracks that are used in a live performance.

[tf5_bassist]

I agree with this on one condition: that is if HMX can pull it off well. Not saying that they can't due to ability, but whether the finished product is good or not. Whichever they end up deciding plays out best, well, that works for me.