Mic?

[Kurohana-Aiko]

Yeah, I tried searching for this and couldn't find anything so I apologise if it has been asked before or if the answer is blatantly obvious.

After watching a few videos I've still been confused about the microphone. Is it just a mic and nothing more, so everyone hears your tragic voice trying to stay in the right pitch, or does it mask your voice to fit the song according to how well you do sing? Does the mic blend both? I've just been wondering because I want the mic to get used to singing in different pitches, but I personally think my voice sounds horrible and I don't want to feel disappointed (with the game and myself) if I get a band together online and I sound like crap.

[ThePaska]

Its basically a normal mic. The game supports all sorts of headsets, such as the xbox headset. I don't think there is anything really special about it except it is a microphone and you can get a stand for it. All the pitch reading and such is part of the game not the mic.

[Maposaurus]

Its basically a normal mic. The game supports all sorts of headsets, such as the xbox headset. I don't think there is anything really special about it except it is a microphone and you can get a stand for it. All the pitch reading and such is part of the game not the mic.

The game doesn't support other headsets. HMX has already announced that it won't, seeing they aren't high enough quality to work properly with the game

[icantwaitforrockband]

The game doesn't support other headsets. HMX has already announced that it won't, seeing they aren't high enough quality to work properly with the game

"Rock Band supports the current collection of headsets..."

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/puzzle/rockband/news.html?sid=6178927&tag=topslot%3Btitle%3B5&page=2

[Kurohana-Aiko]

I wasn't asking about headsets, but I suppose that's interesting.

icantwaitforrockband: Thanks for that link, I got exactly what I wanted to know.

"When playing online with others, your bandmates cannot hear you sing; they can only watch your pitch and score on the screen to ensure you're keeping up to par."

Mhm, I'm getting the mic.:)

[masterx1918]

ooh my god not this argument again. YOU CAN SING USING THE HEADSETS. end of argument.

[Chris_Gonzalez]

ooh my god not this argument again. YOU CAN SING USING THE HEADSETS. end of argument.

It looks like someone's been using his Jump to Conclusions Mat too much...

[masterx1918]

no, it's clearly stated in the gamespot article that the headset is supported as a mic. I've had this argument about 20 times too many, so i'm on a short fuse when it comes to the subject.

[milkman4591]

"Rock Band supports the current collection of headsets..."

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/puzzle/rockband/news.html?sid=6178927&tag=topslot%3Btitle%3B5&page=2

Burned! Thanks

[IErrantVentureI]

no, it's clearly stated in the gamespot article that the headset is supported as a mic. I've had this argument about 20 times too many, so i'm on a short fuse when it comes to the subject.

Technically Aiko didn't want to know about the mic.

[masterx1918]

no, but Maposaurus and Leo (who deleted his post) seemed to still think that the headset still wasn't able to be used. I didn't want to leave them mis-informed.

[ThePaska]

Technically Aiko didn't want to know about the mic.

You're right I completely misread the question. Sorry Aiko. Actually the vocals can be adjusted to suit you. They can be either be completely your own voice, or completely the original artists voice, or basically anywhere in between. You can adjust the volume, so if you don't want your voice to be heard, or if you want it to be masked a bit by the artist then it can be.

Also when playing online in a band (like it says above) the people playing with you will not be able to hear your voice.

[Kurohana-Aiko]

You're right I completely misread the question. Sorry Aiko. Actually the vocals can be adjusted to suit you. They can be either be completely your own voice, or completely the original artists voice, or basically anywhere in between. You can adjust the volume, so if you don't want your voice to be heard, or if you want it to be masked a bit by the artist then it can be.

Also when playing online in a band (like it says above) the people playing with you will not be able to hear your voice.

It's alright, I just got confused about why people were mentioning the whole headset thing.

My question now is that if my voice can't be heard online, how would the 'rockergasm'/freemix thing for the mic work? Wouldn't the other players not be able to hear it?

[Bobble]

well that's not entirely correct, they can hear you if you choose to be heard, but you can turn up the master track to mask your tragic singing vioce

[masterx1918]

It's alright, I just got confused about why people were mentioning the whole headset thing.

My question now is that if my voice can't be heard online, how would the 'rockergasm'/freemix thing for the mic work? Wouldn't the other players not be able to hear it?
yeah, they'd know whats going on because they can see your singing "fret board" thingy, and can see your score go up because of it, but they can't hear you

[IErrantVentureI]

Online, the other players will not be able to hear you. They confirmed it very recently.

[MotleyPriest111]

It looks like someone's been using his Jump to Conclusions Mat too much...

"Ungh"
"That's the worst idea I have ever heard."
"Yes. It's horrible, this idea."

[Kurohana-Aiko]

Yeah, I got that whole "seeing your board with the pitches but not hearing you" thing, but wouldn't that make the mic's freemix (I believe that's what it's called, I know it was jokingly referred to as the 'rockergasm' in a topic) pointless? I like the idea of not being heard as I'm not comfortable with my voice, but I'd like to know if I can actually scream into the damn thing for those parts and be heard. :p

[masterx1918]

the "rockergasm" as you want to call it, is used to deploy the singers form of star power or rock power. So it still has a point even if your bandmates can't hear what you're shouting.

[icantwaitforrockband]

Burned! Thanks

That is the same article I posted to PROVE my point... how exactl am I burned? It proves the use of headsets...

You my friend, are on the receiving end of this burn!

[icantwaitforrockband]

You're right I completely misread the question. Sorry Aiko. Actually the vocals can be adjusted to suit you. They can be either be completely your own voice, or completely the original artists voice, or basically anywhere in between. You can adjust the volume, so if you don't want your voice to be heard, or if you want it to be masked a bit by the artist then it can be.

Also when playing online in a band (like it says above) the people playing with you will not be able to hear your voice.

Of course, you can adjust the volume all you want (just like in karaoke rev. or singstar) but the dude playing the guitar, drums, bass, next to you is gonna hear YOU 'cause you're yellin' into the mic, and you're right next to the guy...sooo it doesn't really matter how you adjust the volume...!

[R0ck3r]

Of course, you can adjust the volume all you want (just like in karaoke rev. or singstar) but the dude playing the guitar, drums, bass, next to you is gonna hear YOU 'cause you're yellin' into the mic, and you're right next to the guy...sooo it doesn't really matter how you adjust the volume...!

Talking about online I believe...

[tf5_bassist]

Yeah, I tried searching for this and couldn't find anything so I apologise if it has been asked before or if the answer is blatantly obvious.

After watching a few videos I've still been confused about the microphone. Is it just a mic and nothing more, so everyone hears your tragic voice trying to stay in the right pitch, or does it mask your voice to fit the song according to how well you do sing? Does the mic blend both? I've just been wondering because I want the mic to get used to singing in different pitches, but I personally think my voice sounds horrible and I don't want to feel disappointed (with the game and myself) if I get a band together online and I sound like crap.

The mic system does nothing to "mask" your voice, in a processing/blending/fancyful kind of way, but there is a way to control the balance between your vocals and the original vocals (a/b mix), and it seems pretty simple. This following paragraph was the last para in my first post in my thread "My Rock Band experience at CSU Sacramento - Good AND Bad (http://community.rockband.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=4703)":


A big one that I haven't seen answered yet - mic volume controls:
As a loading tip, or a starting tip, or SOMETHING (I forgot), the game told you what controls do what for the mic. I don't remember exactly which button is mapped to what, however here's how it was broken down (to my best recollection). the Y button controls the mic sensitivity, X controls the mix volume down, and B is mix volume up. I was pretty preoccupied with readying myself to not suck, but I saw it and made a quick mental note of the general idea. So there's the answer to the so far elusive mic controls. If this has already been brought up in detail, well, then nevermind hehe.

So basically, what I'm gathering there is that sensitivity is basically the gain (volume) coming in from the mic, whereas the mix up/down buttons will adjust your volume in the vocal mix, allowing you to push your vocals completely up-front to eliminate the originals, or do the opposite, drowing yourself out completely by the studio vocal track, or creating any blend thereof inbetween. Very very cool idea, it's much better than the typical mic vocal up/down like Singstar, where the studio vocals are the same no matter what.

Personally, especially when I'm learning a song, I like to have approximately 60-75% of the mix going to the original track, with the remainder going to my own vocals. When I've done studio work in my old bands, I used to track background vocals the same way. As long as I can hear myself DECENTLY, and hear the main vocal track well enough to make sure I was harmonizing correctly, then I was happy.

Until I get the songs down, I'll probably be mixing this way for game sessions too.

[icantwaitforrockband]

Talking about online I believe...

Ok, then. But volume would still not enter the equation in that case!

[IErrantVentureI]

I don't like how on online you can't be heard by friends, but it's good if you just join a random game and get stuck with a really bad singer.

[tf5_bassist]

I don't like how on online you can't be heard by friends, but it's good if you just join a random game and get stuck with a really bad singer.

Yeah, me neither, but it's probably due to the fact that trying to deliver "cd quality audio" online when you're already streaming that much crap would've been too much bandwidth. I'd rather have no vocals and no lag, than vocals and lag.

If it's NOT a tech issue, however, well, then just boo on that. Include the vocals via online, but give each other player the ability to mute the vocalist.

[IErrantVentureI]

Hey, that's not a bad idea. I'd love a mute function. But we're talking as if hearing your online singer was possible..

[ductyl]

Yeah, me neither, but it's probably due to the fact that trying to deliver "cd quality audio" online when you're already streaming that much crap would've been too much bandwidth. I'd rather have no vocals and no lag, than vocals and lag.

If it's NOT a tech issue, however, well, then just boo on that. Include the vocals via online, but give each other player the ability to mute the vocalist.

Yeah, it's a tech issue. There is some degree of latency with online play, that's just how it works. For a single person connecting to a high speed server(such as FPS games), you can get connections that average around 100ms(1/10th or a second) but often they range up to 300ms and still remain playable. If you start trying to sync up 4 separate players on different speed connections the times start to add up, and when you're playing a coop rhythm game that delay can be a problem.

The way they work it so you can't tell as much is by using some degree of "prediction" to play it as though the remote person got the notes correct until it gets the notice that they missed it. I forget where I saw it mentioned, but one of the HMX guys said that you can sort of see it in GH2, sometimes it will start to play a note you missed before switching to the "missed note" noise. There was also some other secret methods hinted at, but this is the main one used in any online multiplayer.

If you've ever played an FPS online, you'll often see people continue running whatever direction they were running in if they start lagging, that's the server trying to predict what they're doing on their client end until they get the next packet telling them what the person did. Similarly, when you hear someone miss a note online, chances are they actually missed a few notes back and the system just kept going with the note streak until it got the packet saying "missed note". This also means that when someone has missed several notes, it won't start playing the "correct notes" again until it gets the "correct note" notice saying the person has started hitting the notes again.

With other instruments, the prediction is easy, since you know what they're going to sound like ahead of time(the master recording). If you try to play someones actual voice, you don't know ahead of time what they will sound like, so they have to use a "known track" for prediction purposes, i.e. the master recording. Same goes for any instrument's "jam session," there just isn't any way for them to send it quickly enough to have it properly "fit" in the song, especially if you're considering that a "jam session" should really be matched up across all the instruments playing.

In fact... I'm wondering if they'll even send the guitar whammy effects to remote players... it really doesn't need to "match up" as much as other elements of "personalization" do, but it's also something you can't predict, so if they sent it, it would be delayed on everyone else's system to look like they didn't start the whammy until a while after the note started.

They could make this work, if people really wanted the feature... but then the singer would basically only hear the "perfect audio" track and not be singing "with the band". Essentially the singer would start the song a few seconds ahead of everyone else(basically laying down a vocal track for the other systems to use), and everyone else would get the singer's voice to their system before it needed it, and could have it played back at the appropriate rate.

- ductyl

[tf5_bassist]

I'd say that's a pretty indepth description, as far as a brief wrapup of the issue can be hehe.

I figured it'd be something along these lines. Until America reaches the broadband penetration rate and throughput rate that Japan has reached, this sort of issue will always limit true non-predictive network synching needed for things like streaming high-quality vocals in addition to everything else that's being shared.

[ductyl]

Until America reaches the broadband penetration rate and throughput rate that Japan has reached

Apparently they're running about 30 times (http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200708/200708310010.html) the speed of ours on average now.

Unfortunately we've also got the population spread out over a much larger area...
http://www.isop.ucla.edu/eas/japan/geography/japan-us-size.gif
which not only makes it harder/more expensive to install the infrastructure for faster speeds, but also imposes physical limits to what can be accomplished. If you had a fiber optic line from LA to New York, say 2500 miles... it still takes:

2,500miles/(186,300miles/sec)~=.0134192163s
and fiber runs at about 3/4 the speed of light, so
.0134192163/.75~=.0178922884s

or approximately 18ms to send a signal directly. You also have to consider that we can't reasonably connect everyone with a direct connection to everyone else. So we have a big network of ISP servers which route you through other servers to connect you to the content server you requested. Each of these adds slightly to the time a packet takes to reach it's destination. Most people make 10-20 ISP server "hops" to connect to the content server. I strongly suspect this number is much smaller in Japan(only for servers within their own country, obviously).

So even if we all got fiber optic connections tomorrow, there would still be a very real limit on the latency we could achieve. It's actually fairly impressive that we can get numbers in the 100ms range (although this tends to mean the server is closer to you then NY is to LA, it's still logistically pretty impressive).

Yay for unrequested technical explanations! Hey Harmonix... I'm a CS major, let me know what position you need me to fill and I'll be sure take those classes next semester ;)

- ductyl

[tf5_bassist]

hah! That was awesome. :D

[Bakkster]

Apparently they're running about 30 times (http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200708/200708310010.html) the speed of ours on average now.

Unfortunately we've also got the population spread out over a much larger area...
which not only makes it harder/more expensive to install the infrastructure for faster speeds, but also imposes physical limits to what can be accomplished. If you had a fiber optic line from LA to New York, say 2500 miles... it still takes:

2,500miles/(186,300miles/sec)~=.0134192163s
and fiber runs at about 3/4 the speed of light, so
.0134192163/.75~=.0178922884s

It's true that we're larger and less dense; but if that's the only factor, shouldn't our dense urban areas have 30MB broadband readily available? I'd say the real reason is the telcoms by law aren't required to sell access to their infrastructure to 3rd party networks. That usually means you can get your internet from the cable company or your phone company, that's it. I think until we get some competition, either in the form of multiple providers on each network or new tech like power line transmission and fiber, we're going to stay hosed.