Singing accuracy...

[nickp4512]

So with songs like Rush's Tom Sawyer and most recently announced Coheed and Cambria's Welcome Home..... these two songs pretty far out of most guys range... and i can reach pretty high....

so im wondering on songs too high out of your range if you can sing down an octave and it still thinks your hitting the notes?

anyone know?

[hmxsean]

The singing detects pitch regardless of octave. You could sing Coheed and Cambria like you were Barry White if you wanted to.

[coheedfails]

The singing detects pitch regardless of octave. You could sing Coheed and Cambria like you were Barry White if you wanted to.

haha, that's awesome, i've been wandering too, so i guess it's as long as you sing in sync with the song you'll get it, cool, good to know

[dlisapussy]

The singing detects pitch regardless of octave. You could sing Coheed and Cambria like you were Barry White if you wanted to.

Is there a difficulty in which you have to sing the right octave? Like expert or something? Or is there an option which you can adjust the octave to your range?

[hmxsean]

Is there a difficulty in which you have to sing the right octave? Like expert or something? Or is there an option which you can adjust the octave to your range?

Nope. It is all pitch and the various difficulties are about how close you have to get to the pitch (expert is...wow... really hard as you have to be exact). We also have the phoneme phrases which are about saying the words in time but those phrases do no pitch detection at all.

Making it octave dependent is sort of needlessly punishing in the end.

[Criss2fur]

Well considering i can sing countertenor i believe i can get up there

[Quastor]

Nope. It is all pitch and the various difficulties are about how close you have to get to the pitch (expert is...wow... really hard as you have to be exact). We also have the phoneme phrases which are about saying the words in time but those phrases do no pitch detection at all.

Making it octave dependent is sort of needlessly punishing in the end.

So wait, there's pitch phases and phoneme phrases? I thought the entire vox part was considering phoneme...

I guess I can understand if this is hard to do, but I'm a bit disappointed. I have a friend who likes KR and is looking forward to RB, as she sucks at GH. However, she has the habit of just "meowing" at some of the more difficult parts in KR just to get good scores. :( I was hoping she wouldn't be able to do that in RB.

[ThePaska]

The singing detects pitch regardless of octave. You could sing Coheed and Cambria like you were Barry White if you wanted to.

I feel like people would pay to see (or hear) this, could that be made into an achievement? :D

[idiotec]

We also have the phoneme phrases which are about saying the words in time but those phrases do no pitch detection at all.
Huh? So both aren't working together for all parts?

[kotran]

The thing I found hard in the KR games on Expert is that it requires you to be perfectly on pitch. If you've got any vibrato (which is a more natural way of singing) you don't do as well. So then, you are forced to sing straight tone, which while it gets you better scores, also sounds bland and unnatural. This is especially true on any sustained notes.

I have a feeling RB will be the same way.

[ThePaska]

Huh? So both aren't working together for all parts?

That would make sense because certain sections might just be about saying the words where no pitch is involved.

[army_of_me]

That would make sense because certain sections might just be about saying the words where no pitch is involved.

Yeah. There's a video of Epic floating around somewhere with an example of a part like this (basically the whole verse).

[dlisapussy]

I figured that in order to be an expert in drumming, you have to become a really good drummer, so in order to be considered an 'expert' singer, you have to actually be a really good singer, which includes octaves. I understand certain people like Barry White simply can't sing like Claudio Sanchez. Perhaps someone who does sing like Barry wants to TRY to match someone like Claudio, though? They at least have the option to raise it an octave or two.


I know its too late to suggest anything but, I think if theres not a difficulty level in which you need to sing the exact pitch and octave, expert should stay as it is now. But it should have a control option in which you can change the octave to your liking, for example, the exact octave of the song, 3 octaves below or 3 octaves above (depending on the singer's voice and your voice). Because if you practice the drums on RB, you'll become a good drummer. If you practice singing the correct octave and pitch on RB, you'll become a good singer. I can already drum and play guitar, but my singing is not as great as I want it to be. Practice makes perfect, and RB is more than just a fun game, its an opportunity to learn how to sing and bang on the drums.

[toefer]

I know its too late to suggest anything but, I think if theres not a difficulty level in which you need to sing the exact pitch and octave, expert should stay as it is now. But it should have a control option in which you can change the octave to your liking, for example, the exact octave of the song, 3 octaves below or 3 octaves above (depending on the singer's voice and your voice). Because if you practice the drums on RB, you'll become a good drummer. If you practice singing the correct octave and pitch on RB, you'll become a good singer. I can already drum and play guitar, but my singing is not as great as I want it to be. Practice makes perfect, and RB is more than just a fun game, its an opportunity to learn how to sing and bang on the drums.

I'm not sure I get this. If you're still forced to nail the pitch on expert, isn't that essentially helping you learn to sing? Even the greatest singers have limited ranges, so forcing people to sing low songs low, and high songs high isn't realistic.

[nickp4512]

Thanks for the quick response Sean!

I'm just happy to know that i can sing everything regardless of range!

[dlisapussy]

I'm not sure I get this. If you're still forced to nail the pitch on expert, isn't that essentially helping you learn to sing? Even the greatest singers have limited ranges, so forcing people to sing low songs low, and high songs high isn't realistic.

I know sometimes you can't hit certain notes, its just impossible. And your right, singing the right pitch without the correct octave can help you sing. But singing the correct pitch and octave can help even more, or help you sing like your 'idol'. And besides, I'm not forcing you to sing the correct octave. I'm not forcing you to do anything at all, just merely suggesting an idea. This control option which I speak of can be used for lowering the octave, if the singer has a low voice, and vice versa for high pitched singers, so the difficulty fits your voice just right or your voice fits the song just right. This is just for those who want to switch the octave so their voice is in harmony with the real song or have to switch the octave because of their voice range.


So I'm not forcing yous to do anything. I understand some songs would be impossible to sing unless your a god, but I think raising, lowering, or setting the normal pitch to challenge you (or aid you) should be available. Like I said, it can help somebody sing better, and its not going to affect anybody because YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHOOSE IT IF YOU DON'T WANT. THATS WHY ITS CALLED AN OPTIONNNNNN. Like lefty flip, just pause and turn it on; no ones forcing you to play right handed or left handed. With this it would be an option to turn it on or off, if on, you choose your octave. Its all about choice and more options. I still come up with a thread every once in a while about having both rhythm/bass optional for each song. More options = more freedom = more fun, I don't understand why people don't give ideas a chance. So what if its 'too much work', we'll let HMX decide what is too much work and what isn't. It seems like HMX wants this game to be the biggest thing ever, and the way to do that is to have as much options as possible. Even stuff like character detail, the more the faces, hairstyles, tattoos, the better. Am I right or am I crazy? I don't expect any of these ideas to show up on RB, and this may seem irrelevant, but they can possibly show up on RBII perhaps.

[toefer]

I know sometimes you can't hit certain notes.........Am I right or am I crazy? I don't expect any of these ideas to show up on RB, and this may seem irrelevant, but they can possibly show up on RBII perhaps.

I'm confused. What does having an option to change the octaves do, that can't be done anyway?

I'm not against ideas or having options, I just don't understand what you're getting at.

[dlisapussy]

I'm confused. What does having an option to change the octaves do, that can't be done anyway?

I'm not against ideas or having options, I just don't understand what you're getting at.

First of all, the rejecting of ideas wasn't directed toward you, more of a general thing.

And I think I'm not understanding you, then.

What do you mean having an option to choose the octave can't be done?

[dlisapussy]

I think I understand now, your thinking ''why not just sing in the correct octave instead of set the song at a certain octave,'' am I correct? Or "how can you change the octave of an actual song?


If I am correct, here's my answer:

First of all to clear this up (if this is the problem), I'm talking about changing the difficulty and detection of the octave, not the actual octave of the singer that your hearing.

Second of all,
If the difficulty has you sing the correct pitch, but octave doesn't matter and you want to sing the correct octave, you can cheat. If you can't get that high note, you can still hit that note, just an octave lower, which is technically cheating (in my book). If you don't consider it cheating, then you don't need the option. But that's why I first thought of the idea. Aiming for the high notes or low notes that you can't hit is just practice. If you practice enough, you can train your voice and extend your pitch range.

[toefer]

I think I understand now, your thinking ''why not just sing in the correct octave instead of set the song at a certain octave,'' am I correct? Or "how can you change the octave of an actual song?


If I am correct, here's my answer:

First of all to clear this up (if this is the problem), I'm talking about changing the difficulty and detection of the octave, not the actual octave of the singer that your hearing.

Second of all,
If the difficulty has you sing the correct pitch, but octave doesn't matter and you want to sing the correct octave, you can cheat. If you can't get that high note, you can still hit that note, just an octave lower, which is technically cheating (in my book). If you don't consider it cheating, then you don't need the option. But that's why I first thought of the idea. Aiming for the high notes or low notes that you can't hit is just practice. If you practice enough, you can train your voice and extend your pitch range.

That makes sense. Thanks for clearing it up.

[Cr1ckt]

If you want to be challenge, challenge yourself. However, vocal ranges for individuals are certainly limited for individuals, so don't go killing your voice trying to hit a note that is clearly out of your range.

As a fairly good baritone singer myself, I'm offended by the notion that "skill" is determined by how high you can belt. I have great respect for vocalists like Ian Gillan and Freddie Mercury, who have the range, but most people can't sing that high. It's physically impossible for them and unreasonable to ask them to do so. Furthermore, allowing them to sing in a reasonable octave does not inhibit the practical benefits of the game. Trying to belt a high note over and over again won't make you a better singer, it'll just kill your voice. Being able to hit exact pitches will make you a better singer, regardless of the octave.

That being said, I know I will be rocking Welcome Home and Tom Sawyer in the proper octave, even if I have to sing in falsetto half the time...it just feels wrong to sing "like Barry White" in that context, as funny as it might be.

I am worried about the constraints that higher difficulties might put on the "rock" factor. I certainly won't be having a lot of fun if I have to constantly work to suppress vibrato, which naturally occurs for me. Considering many of the original rock vocalists themselves use vibrato, I wonder how the game will deal with this. It would seem to me to be unfair to require us to sing an exact pitch (an accomplishment that would be difficult even for professionally trained singers) when the master tracks themselves don't even remain on that pitch.

Is there anyone working on the game who could give me an idea of the window allowed on expert? Is it like 30 cents either way? 20 cents? I would be happy if the game allowed us to be about a quartertone off without losing points. (If anyone wants to get a good idea of how close you have to be, wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cent_%28music%29 has comparisons between pitches that are 10 cents off of one another. You'll probably agree that we need a little wiggle room.)

[tbradshaw]

Is there anyone working on the game who could give me an idea of the window allowed on expert? Is it like 30 cents either way? 20 cents?

This is a phenomenal question. HMXSean, would you mind bugging one of your audio programmers and asking them what the ranges of pitch accuracy are for the different difficulties? This would be great info for the nerds in the fanbase and I don't think would cause any problems with the PR/Marketing folks.

If this is considered a "trade secret", I understand. But it'd be great to have an understanding in concrete, real terms what the different difficulties in vox work mean.

Thanks!