Uh oh...

[Rook_x51]

So I'm nervous about something...

When you are playing WBT can you switch instruments before any song? It would be a serious over-sight if HMX stuck you with a single instrument right?

I know my band is going to be switching fairly regularly and I would hate to not be able to create a personalized avatar....

Can anyone confirm either that you will be stuck with your instrument or it can be switched before each gig? During marathons can you switch between songs?

[Eman311]

I "think" members can switch instruments mid- world tour mode, but it hasn't been confirmed.

[tombrady]

you could just pick up the guitar and he could go play the drums...the scrolls are covering 80% of the screen anyway...

[Edgehopper]

Can anyone confirm either that you will be stuck with your instrument or it can be switched before each gig? During marathons can you switch between songs?

Second the question on marathons. People will die if they can't switch mid-marathon, particularly on the Endless Setlist if they're drummers. Harmonix, you'll kill people! They'll die happy, but...

[Rook_x51]

you could just pick up the guitar and he could go play the drums...the scrolls are covering 80% of the screen anyway...

I get that. The problem is I don't want "Rook" to be played by anyone other than me. Sounds stupid I know. Not to mention the fact that I'm sure we'll want to switch quite regularly.

[hmxsean]

Second the question on marathons. People will die if they can't switch mid-marathon, particularly on the Endless Setlist if they're drummers. Harmonix, you'll kill people! They'll die happy, but...

Assumedly, you could just rotate around the room on the instruments. I played a pretty significant setlist where we did that frequently.

And the huge setlist isn't about comfort. It is about PAIN!

[Rook_x51]

What about online co-op?

Kinda hard to drive 400 miles away to switch instruments...


[edit]
I actually don't really care about online since most of our band sessions will be local multiplayer, but really this detail is the only thing that really keeps nagging me about WBT.

[Edgehopper]

Assumedly, you could just rotate around the room on the instruments. I played a pretty significant setlist where we did that frequently.

And the huge setlist isn't about comfort. It is about PAIN!

Not really, because of difficulty settings. I play expert guitar, but no one else in my group of friends can. Drums will probably have a similar issue, and neither carpal tunnel nor playing large chunks of the setlist on Easy seem like lost of fun. Our top singer is recoiling in horror at the thought of 6 hours of straight singing; people get laryngitis that way.

I mean, I'm perfectly happy to play 6 straight hours of expert Guitar, and one of my goals is to complete the Endless Setlist as an expert/expert guitarist/vocalist. I'm just worried about finding friends willing to play 6 straight hours of the other parts.

[Eman311]

You know, nothing can be perfect as you want it to be. Just gonna have to suck it up and get through it.

[Rook_x51]

Ah yes. I was wondering how long it would take for that response to come out. My guess is that you only really want to play one of the instrument types in RB.

There are, however, many of us that are amped over all types.

[Edgehopper]

Ah yes. I was wondering how long it would take for that response to come out. My guess is that you only really want to play one of the instrument types in RB.

There are, however, many of us that are amped over all types.

Wrong. Very wrong. I plan on playing all 4 parts extensively; I just can't play them all at the same time. I want to have friends over to play through the ultimate setlist; it'll just be unpleasant if it requires:

1. One person to sing the whole time, and one person to drum the whole time, or
2. Switching between instruments without changing the difficulty, which would effectively mean all parts would have to be on Easy for a non-hardcore group to succeed.

[Rook_x51]

Wrong. Very wrong. I plan on playing all 4 parts extensively; I just can't play them all at the same time. I want to have friends over to play through the ultimate setlist; it'll just be unpleasant if it requires:

1. One person to sing the whole time, and one person to drum the whole time, or
2. Switching between instruments without changing the difficulty, which would effectively mean all parts would have to be on Easy for a non-hardcore group to succeed.

I was talking about eman311. I'm on your side :p

//OP

[IErrantVentureI]

In DanT's new blog, one of the screens makes it really look like you can switch on the fly. But I could be wrong. :)

[Rook_x51]

Ya, I saw that. I'm hoping that's the case. Not like it matters, with all the new WBT info that's come out there is nothing that can stop me from getting this game.

[Electric_Zen]

And the huge setlist isn't about comfort. It is about PAIN!

Yeah, baby!

[Electric_Zen]

In DanT's new blog, one of the screens makes it really look like you can switch on the fly. But I could be wrong. :)

What I got out of Dan's blog is that you can switch up instruments heading into a song or setlist. But Sean's response indicates that you can't switch mid-setlist.

No autosaves. No getting to re-do the song if you fail. Endlist setlists are for big-balled men and vagiants.

[sporkBrigade]

All creation videos I've seen have you creating a singer, or Drummer, etc. I'm thinking each avatar will be unique to an instrument.

So in theory, the "Leader" has to stay the same no matter what, but the other three members can create an Avatar for each instrument and just switch around to their heart's content.

As far as I know, I've never seen anything official about this. I'm curious too, because I love personalized avatars.

[hmxsean]

Ah yes. I was wondering how long it would take for that response to come out. My guess is that you only really want to play one of the instrument types in RB.

There are, however, many of us that are amped over all types.

Then my professional suggestion would be to go through it 4 times in a row. Also call Guinness right before attempting. ;)

[chaopolis]

Also call Guinness right before attempting. ;)

What... for holding a World Record? or ordering a Keg? :p

[hmxsean]

What... for holding a World Record? or ordering a Keg?

Maybe the judge comes with a keg?

[chaopolis]

Maybe the judge comes with a keg?

.......SOLD!

[hmxsean]

What about online co-op?

Kinda hard to drive 400 miles away to switch instruments...


Band World Tour (and consequently the endless setlist) doesn't have an online mode. It was something we really wanted in there but the time to do it (and do it right taking into account all sorts of mostly unforeseen but very important things) was seriously prohibitive. It is something we are totally working for in the future as not only do you want to play it but so do we (more than you know). That said we do have our band quickplay and the competitive modes online and it they are amazing. Sorry for the confusion.

[Leo_10th]

Band World Tour (and consequently the endless setlist) doesn't have an online mode. It was something we really wanted in there but the time to do it (and do it right taking into account all sorts of mostly unforeseen but very important things) was seriously prohibitive. It is something we are totally working for in the future as not only do you want to play it but so do we (more than you know). That said we do have our band quickplay and the competitive modes online and it they are amazing. Sorry for the confusion.

oh my.. that's kind of a shock! so all the online band leadersboards get thrown out the window along with this, i assume?

[ThePaska]

Band World Tour (and consequently the endless setlist) doesn't have an online mode. It was something we really wanted in there but the time to do it (and do it right taking into account all sorts of mostly unforeseen but very important things) was seriously prohibitive. It is something we are totally working for in the future as not only do you want to play it but so do we (more than you know). That said we do have our band quickplay and the competitive modes online and it they are amazing. Sorry for the confusion.

Oh wow, that's news to me. At least band quickplay is still online, so I can play with my friends who are far away, but it is a bit upsetting that World Tour Mode wont be. Good thing I have tons of people at school that can't wait for this game to come out.

There wont be much online band competition then?
I guess most bands that people have formed so far will be stuck doing quickplay. It's not the worst thing that could happen, I'm glad there is still some kind of online co-op!

[Rook_x51]

Whoa... that's a pretty big shocker.

I guess everyone that's been going around finding online bandmates for WBT are hosed then. Neat.

[hmxsean]

Whoa... that's a pretty big shocker.

I guess everyone that's been going around finding online bandmates for WBT are hosed then. Neat.

If they were only going to play BWT. We do still have several other online modes where people can pair up and play.

[Rook_x51]

Yes... and I'm sure they are very fun. But I highly doubt they will be as entertaining and engrossing as WBT.

Although I guess since they are the only way to really play with online pals, those modes will be played.

Like I said before though, I'll be playing all local multiplayer so I don't really care. Especially if axing the online WBT means getting RB out quicker.

[Electric_Zen]

Band World Tour (and consequently the endless setlist) doesn't have an online mode.

Holy ****.

[ZkDotNet]

Band World Tour (and consequently the endless setlist) doesn't have an online mode. It was something we really wanted in there but the time to do it (and do it right taking into account all sorts of mostly unforeseen but very important things) was seriously prohibitive. It is something we are totally working for in the future as not only do you want to play it but so do we (more than you know). That said we do have our band quickplay and the competitive modes online and it they are amazing. Sorry for the confusion.
Damn, that's tragic. I guess I won't be spending as much time with world tour mode as I thought. :(

[Rook_x51]

It's not that bad, after all do you really want them to push back release until 08?

All I really want to know now is.... can we switch instruments mid tour? That was the point of this thread after all.

[Xzyliac]

Holy ****.

Holy shìt indeed. Especially considering you need 2 or more players.

Talk about a terminal flaw.

[espher]

Band World Tour (and consequently the endless setlist) doesn't have an online mode. It was something we really wanted in there but the time to do it (and do it right taking into account all sorts of mostly unforeseen but very important things) was seriously prohibitive. It is something we are totally working for in the future as not only do you want to play it but so do we (more than you know). That said we do have our band quickplay and the competitive modes online and it they are amazing. Sorry for the confusion.

Now, is this more of a "We'll work on this for Rock Band 2" or more of a "We'll try and patch this in down the road"?

:)

[hmxsean]

Holy shìt indeed. Especially considering you need 2 or more players.



Or you can sing and play an instrument at the same time. That would also work for BWT since you would be using a singer and a guitarist/bassist/drummer.

[Rook_x51]

I plan on playing drums and guitar at the same time. I haven't figured out the logistics yet, just that it will freaking ROCK.

[Xzyliac]

Or you can sing and play an instrument at the same time. That would also work for BWT since you would be using a singer and a guitarist/bassist/drummer.

Point.

I guess I'm old fashion but I still prefer the four man set up.

Oh well. Here's to hoping a beefy software update comes within a year.

[stiper327b]

Yeah, I'm really hoping this can be patched in, cause there's no way I can convince my friends to come over and play this game as often as I would like them to. They'll come over and play every once in awhile, but they've got newborns and wives whereas I...don't. Oh well, maybe they can still come over for just short play sessions here and there. I'm still on board the Rock Band train, but this news is kind of a bummer.

But I will take solace in knowing that it's something that you guys wanted to do, and still plan on doing. I'd rather hear that than hear some staid, boring PR excuse.

[hmxsean]

Now, is this more of a "We'll work on this for Rock Band 2" or more of a "We'll try and patch this in down the road"?

:)

I don't know.

[logicalnoise]

So the main way of unlocking songs can't be played single player unless I want to do two instruments at once?

[stiper327b]

So the main way of unlocking songs can't be played single player unless I want to do two instruments at once?

I'm pretty sure you can unlock songs by playing the Solo guitar/drum/voice portions of the game.

[Rook_x51]

Rock Band is more of a multiplayer experience anyway. Would you be frustrated that you couldn't unlock achievements in Team Fortress 2 by playing with a bunch of bots?

[Xzyliac]

So the main way of unlocking songs can't be played single player unless I want to do two instruments at once?

Yeah what about venues and such? Damn I have to rethink my whole gaming strategy.

[hmxsean]

So the main way of unlocking songs can't be played single player unless I want to do two instruments at once?

That isn't the main way of unlocking songs exclusively. There are also the single player campaigns.

[Electric_Zen]

Thanks for staying on the thread and answering questions, Sean. I'm very disappointed about this, but I can tell you guys are, too.

[sporkBrigade]

So the main way of unlocking songs can't be played single player unless I want to do two instruments at once?

It's been stated before that you can unlock all the songs with the solo Tours for Mic, Guitar, or Drums.

I feel like a lot of people are going to over react to this announcement. Take two steps back, realize that if you break World Tour down, it's just an excuse to play songs. Playing the songs is still going to be the best part of this game, and that's still online.

If World Tour is that important to you, you just need to get one friend to come over, not 3. Just one. If you don't have 1 friend who can come over now and then to get your World Tour action on, then World Tour not being online is not your biggest problem. You need to get out more. Also, be nicer to others. Oh, and use deodorant. Not only will you find a World Tour Bandmate in no time, but you might actually get a date for once.

Seriously, it's not that big of a deal.

[Rook_x51]

And yet, still noone gives out info on switching instruments :P

I agree with EZ, thanks for staying on the thread Sean, but if you could just sniff around there and get a feel for what the deal is with switching instruments we'll be very grateful. If you can't tell me, just saying "Can't tell you" is fine enough.

[hmxsean]

Thanks for staying on the thread and answering questions, Sean. I'm very disappointed about this, but I can tell you guys are, too.

Thanks, man. We're all wicked proud of this game and we have really poured literally every minute of every day and all of our hearts into it. We truly want this to be one of the best games you've ever played and even without this I think it still is.

And BWT is so awesome with another person in the room anyways. Especially when you look over after a wicked hard set and it just clicks. And everyone is sweating, and panting and stretching their hands and fingers and just totally stoked. It is incredible.

[SmokaCola]

Band World Tour (and consequently the endless setlist) doesn't have an online mode. It was something we really wanted in there but the time to do it (and do it right taking into account all sorts of mostly unforeseen but very important things) was seriously prohibitive. It is something we are totally working for in the future as not only do you want to play it but so do we (more than you know). That said we do have our band quickplay and the competitive modes online and it they are amazing. Sorry for the confusion.

For future... So would that mean an update could make it possible, or would it only be in RB2?

[Eman311]

Ah yes. I was wondering how long it would take for that response to come out. My guess is that you only really want to play one of the instrument types in RB.

There are, however, many of us that are amped over all types.

Then just switch?

nevermind, i thought you were talking about "endless setlist" mode only.

and i'm shocked at no Online Band World Tour. That puts a serious kink into a lot of peoples plans, and prevents quite a few people from ever being able to do BWT(for those really vocal shy people). BWT really needs to be single player as well.

[Xzyliac]

Yeah Sean thanks for sticking 'round.

Of course the game will still own. Why? One word: Harmonix.

Rock Band FTW!

[espher]

I, for one, will hope for DLC online-mode add-on. ;)

[hmxsean]

And yet, still noone gives out info on switching instruments :P


You can't mid-setlist, no. But as you will be in the same room you can pause the game and switch parts.

[sporkBrigade]

Then just switch?

I think Rook has 2 desires in this world. First, he wants to switch around on instruments with friends during the course of a World Tour. But second, and just as important, he wants his Avatar to switch with him.

So it's not just a matter of switching instruments, it's the very specific act of having your Avatar playing whatever instrument you've switched to. To some, this doesn't matter at all. To nerds like Rook and I, we're actually curious about this.

I've got your back, Rook. But seriously, we need to figure out how to be cooler.

[ThePaska]

Thanks, man. We're all wicked proud of this game and we have really poured literally every minute of every day and all of our hearts into it. We truly want this to be one of the best games you've ever played and even without this I think it still is.

And BWT is so awesome with another person in the room anyways. Especially when you look over after a wicked hard set and it just clicks. And everyone is sweating, and panting and stretching their hands and fingers and just totally stoked. It is incredible.

With or without Online BWT, there is no doubt in my mind this will be one of the best games I have ever played. Its easy to see that you guys put so much into this game, it really shows. I can't wait to see and more importantly PLAY the finished product!

[Electric_Zen]

If World Tour is that important to you, you just need to get one friend to come over, not 3. Just one. If you don't have 1 friend who can come over now and then to get your World Tour action on, then World Tour not being online is not your biggest problem. You need to get out more. Also, be nicer to others. Oh, and use deodorant. Not only will you find a World Tour Bandmate in no time, but you might actually get a date for once.

I hear you, man, but me and my buddies got jobs (that don't involve playing games) and spouses and kids. Gaming online is easy once the kids are asleep, but face-to-face gaming is a once-every-couple-of-months kind of thing. Life gets in the way.

I'll have fun doing some BWT with my family, but they are not crazy or stupid enough to do something like Endless Setlist with me.

[Eman311]

I think Rook has 2 desires in this world. First, he wants to switch around on instruments with friends during the course of a World Tour. But second, and just as important, he wants his Avatar to switch with him.

So it's not just a matter of switching instruments, it's the very specific act of having your Avatar playing whatever instrument you've switched to. To some, this doesn't matter at all. To nerds like Rook and I, we're actually curious about this.

I've got your back, Rook. But seriously, we need to figure out how to be cooler.

You can't have it all spork, just enjoy what you're given i guess. It's not like your avatar won't still be on the screen :)

[Kirksplosion]

Okay, okay. I can live without the Band World Tour Online, I suppose. It's a minimal lose with the amount of epic win you guys have put into this game. I know you all have created an amazing game, regardless, and I am so pumped to get my hands on it. I am much more excited about playing with 3 other people live than over the intarweb anyway.

I'm still crossing my fingers for a patch, though. Seems quite unlikely, though, considering all the extra work you guys will have to be doing with the TONS of DLC.

Congrats on making a game that I know will be amazing. And thank you for letting me know that anytime I see that little "Harmonix" on a gamebox, I can be certain that it is a quality product. Thanks.

[ZkDotNet]

I hear you, man, but me and my buddies got jobs (that don't involve playing games) and spouses and kids. Gaming online is easy once the kids are asleep, but face-to-face gaming is a once-every-couple-of-months kind of thing. Life gets in the way.

I'll have fun doing some BWT with my family, but they are not crazy or stupid enough to do something like Endless Setlist with me.
Exactly. That describes my situation perfectly.

It's disappointing, because the BWT sounded so great, but this news certainly isn't decreasing my desire for the game at all. (Hopes for patch.)

[sporkBrigade]

I hear you, man, but me and my buddies got jobs (that don't involve playing games) and spouses and kids. Gaming online is easy once the kids are asleep, but face-to-face gaming is a once-every-couple-of-months kind of thing. Life gets in the way.

I'll have fun doing some BWT with my family, but they are not crazy or stupid enough to do something like Endless Setlist with me.

You need to whip your crappy family into shape. I suggest pushups and daily vocal lessons myself.

Actually, I really do understand where you're coming from. I'm in that middle 20s stage. Old enough to have a serious girlfriend and time constrants, but not quite to that Family stage. My time is limited, but not THAT limited. I understand it's tricky.

My real point is, it's not ideal, and I understand being bummed. But it doesn't change the core of the game, which is playing the songs. So I just hope people don't freak out...

[Maherj]

I think it's going to be great just to play with a bunch of guys without the BWT. I'm a bit sad since most of my friends aren't really into these types of games (Hopefully soon!) but it's not the end of the world. Still, being able to jump online with fellow forum members and die-hard RB fans is going to rock regardless if we can't tear up the world tour.

[Rook_x51]

I think Rook has 2 desires in this world. First, he wants to switch around on instruments with friends during the course of a World Tour. But second, and just as important, he wants his Avatar to switch with him.

So it's not just a matter of switching instruments, it's the very specific act of having your Avatar playing whatever instrument you've switched to. To some, this doesn't matter at all. To nerds like Rook and I, we're actually curious about this.

I've got your back, Rook. But seriously, we need to figure out how to be cooler.

Yes! Spork, you nailed it. I just want to be my avatar, is that so much to ask. So when I'm singing I want him to sing, etc..

Everyone else keeps throwing out a "Just switch instruments" but they just don't get it. I don't want to do that. And I'm sure people are going to give us a big "well whatever, just do it" but I just want some sort of confirmation. I think Sean almost gave me what I was looking for... I think you can switch before gigs... maybe.

[stiper327b]

If BWT were a single player option, that would be cool.

That could be patched in, right?

RIGHT?

But seriously, we'll all get over this soon enough and once we get our grubby little hands on this game and all its wonderful peripherals, we'll look back and laugh at how silly we were to actually be disappointed in any capacity over this game.

[Jp7588]

Call me crazy but I never expected BWT to be online. There has been no game mode on any console game that has been as extensive as BWT that has been online, correct me if I'm wrong. There are so many unknowns that they'd be faced with that would make an online BWT quite a feat. Imagine how difficult it would be to get four people who are going to sit and play through the endless setlist. Imagine your frustration when your vocalist disconnects after two hours. It just sounds like a little too much to ask. Rock band already has more innovation in its drumsticks than most games out there. I can't wait.

[Rook_x51]

I wish I could stip all the "online BWT" comments out of this thread and slap 'em in some other thread. That way Spork and I could get some answers!

I guess I'll be waiting another month to figure it out.

[Electric_Zen]

I wish I could stip all the "online BWT" comments out of this thread and slap 'em in some other thread. That way Spork and I could get some answers!

I guess I'll be waiting another month to figure it out.

Sean answered you at the top of page six. :)

[sporkBrigade]

You can't have it all spork, just enjoy what you're given i guess. It's not like your avatar won't still be on the screen :)

But everyone I know is a complete Douche Bag. I don't want them spoiling my badass rocker, who by the way will be wearing nothing but tightie wighties and spork tattoos.

Ugh, now I'm just depressed... :(

[Rook_x51]

Just if you read "you can't mid-setlist" as being "Yes, for every other type of gig you can switch the instrument you are playing".

[idiotec]

Thanks, man. We're all wicked proud of this game and we have really poured literally every minute of every day and all of our hearts into it. We truly want this to be one of the best games you've ever played and even without this I think it still is.

And BWT is so awesome with another person in the room anyways. Especially when you look over after a wicked hard set and it just clicks. And everyone is sweating, and panting and stretching their hands and fingers and just totally stoked. It is incredible.
Nice, two "wicked's" in one post!!! :p

But seriously, I do not see this as a big deal at all, I am surprised this has so many people so worked up. You can still play songs with a band on-line. What's the difference if its quick play or BWT?

[the_spike]

Is the Single Player One Instrument Tour like Band World Tour in terms of the whole "hire manager, get a van, play wherever you want" sort of thing?

[Rook_x51]

But everyone I know is a complete Douche Bag. I don't want them spoiling my badass rocker, who by the way will be wearing nothing but tightie wighties and spork tattoos.

Ugh, now I'm just depressed... :(
I know what you mean. Nobody else will understand Rook and what he is really all about. They just don't get him. They think he's just another rocker.

[sporkBrigade]

You can't mid-setlist, no. But as you will be in the same room you can pause the game and switch parts.

You've been a monster with replies on this thread so far and that's always appreciated. But just one more clarification if at all possible. I think the meat of the question is whether you can switch instruments at all using the same Avatar during the entire course of a World Tour.

So for example, I've created my rocker "I eat hamburgers". I start out playing Drums. After our first performance, we're selecting our next gig, and my whiny friend and Lead Guitarist Jeff says he wants a turn at the Drums.

While still in the World Tour, can I switch "I eat hamburgers" over to Lead Guitar while Jeff switches his Avatar "I'm a whiny b****" over to Drums?

[MartyMcFly]

Is the Single Player One Instrument Tour like Band World Tour in terms of the whole "hire manager, get a van, play wherever you want" sort of thing?

I'm pretty sure it's the same idea. Except you're playing alone.

Tour Mode
Band Tour Mode

Should be the same.

[logicalnoise]

That isn't the main way of unlocking songs exclusively. There are also the single player campaigns.

whew wasn't a deal breaker but sadness could've ensued.

[hmxsean]

You've been a monster with replies on this thread so far and that's always appreciated. But just one more clarification if at all possible. I think the meat of the question is whether you can switch instruments at all using the same Avatar during the entire course of a World Tour.

So for example, I've created my rocker "I eat hamburgers". I start out playing Drums. After our first performance, we're selecting our next gig, and my whiny friend and Lead Guitarist Jeff says he wants a turn at the Drums.

While still in the World Tour, can I switch "I eat hamburgers" over to Lead Guitar while Jeff switches his Avatar "I'm a whiny b****" over to Drums?

My understanding is that you are locked into drums, vocals or bass/guitar (those two can switch with each other before gigs).

[sporkBrigade]

I'm pretty sure it's the same idea. Except you're playing alone.

Tour Mode
Band Tour Mode

Should be the same.

Not to be a bummer, but I'm pretty sure it was stated the solo tour would be dumbed down and much more similiar to Guitar Hero in style. I don't remember anything more specific then that, but it was pretty clear that a lot of the WBT options would be exclusive to that mode.

[Rook_x51]

My understanding is that you are locked into drums, vocals or bass/guitar (those two can switch with each other before gigs).

Gah. Well that stinks. That news is WAY worse that online/offline crap.

Thanks Sean, wasn't the answer I wanted but it's an answer nonetheless.

[sporkBrigade]

My understanding is that you are locked into drums, vocals or bass/guitar (those two can switch with each other before gigs).

Thanks much! I think I've already figured out my own personal work around. 3 identical sporkBrigades. Oh yes, it'll be fantastic.

Oh, and as a bonus, I can use all 3 identical Avatars during Solo Tours!

[MartyMcFly]

Aww sad news Spork :( But I'm sure it's all about BWT anyway. I'll be spending a lot of time with that.

But for instrument switch, from what Sean was saying, yea you could switch up, but physically.

In which, you sit down at the drums playing as your friend's character, and your friend takes over yours. If you're online, then there's no way.

[Kirksplosion]

Gah. Well that stinks. That news is WAY worse that online/offline crap.

Thanks Sean, wasn't the answer I wanted but it's an answer nonetheless.

Not good news, but nothing terrible.

It makes sense, though. I mean, how often does the singer in an actual band say, "Guys, I want to play drums tonight, is that cool?".

P.S. No Online BWT = worse than no switcheroo

[Rook_x51]

Thanks much! I think I've already figured out my own personal work around. 3 identical sporkBrigades. Oh yes, it'll be fantastic.

Oh, and as a bonus, I can use all 3 identical Avatars during Solo Tours!

Awesome.

Well I guess we'll just end up using the substitution options quite often. Make the bass player the band leader (Since there are only 3 of us) and just switch out the player according to the instrument. I wonder if Drum-playing Rook is cooler than Guitar-playing Rook.

[hmxsean]

Gah. Well that stinks. That news is WAY worse that online/offline crap.

Thanks Sean, wasn't the answer I wanted but it's an answer nonetheless.

Keep in mind you aren't stuck just having one band on a profile. You could have many and switch up that way. I know it isn't the cleanest way you could want it but that's what we do most of the time.

[sporkBrigade]

Aww sad news Spork :( But I'm sure it's all about BWT anyway. I'll be spending a lot of time with that.

But for instrument switch, from what Sean was saying, yea you could switch up, but physically.

In which, you sit down at the drums playing as your friend's character, and your friend takes over yours. If you're online, then there's no way.

It's no biggie. I'm pretty lucky as is, I have a full 4 person band set up offline already. It's the same group I get together with every weekend to play GH2. So switching instruments won't be a hassle in the least. It's just a shallow cosmetic desire to always be using your own Avatar, and I can certainly live without it.

[Rook_x51]

Not good news, but nothing terrible.

It makes sense, though. I mean, how often does the singer in an actual band say, "Guys, I want to play drums tonight, is that cool?".

P.S. No Online BWT = worse than no switcheroo

I'm sure it happens more than you think it does. Hell, Sloan switch instruments several times a show!

[Electric_Zen]

It makes sense, though. I mean, how often does the singer in an actual band say, "Guys, I want to play drums tonight, is that cool?".

Ever see Arcade Fire in concert? All the band members switch instruments every song. :cool:

[Rook_x51]

Keep in mind you aren't stuck just having one band on a profile. You could have many and switch up that way. I know it isn't the cleanest way you could want it but that's what we do most of the time.

You know what the problem is? Most people that play these types of games just want to rock. I want to BE a rocker. I want to be the guy that starts out playing in local clubs and ends up doing world tours. And the way I do that is by using the AWESOME character creator and make my avatar. Then I want to play as that awesome character.

But being the karaoke revolution addict and guitar hero addict that I am, I want to switch between the two with my newly created rock god.

And I can no longer do that. The people that aren't like me will never understand how much this news sucks..

[Kirksplosion]

Ever see Arcade Fire in concert? All the band members switch instruments every song. :cool:


I'm sure it happens more than you think it does. Hell, Sloan switch instruments several times a show!

Me = pwned

[Edgehopper]

Rock Band is more of a multiplayer experience anyway. Would you be frustrated that you couldn't unlock achievements in Team Fortress 2 by playing with a bunch of bots?

Yes, if the only way to play the game was with a LAN or a 4 player split screen.

[hmxsean]

You know what the problem is? Most people that play these types of games just want to rock. I want to BE a rocker. I want to be the guy that starts out playing in local clubs and ends up doing world tours. And the way I do that is by using the AWESOME character creator and make my avatar. Then I want to play as that awesome character.

But being the karaoke revolution addict and guitar hero addict that I am, I want to switch between the two with my newly created rock god.

And I can no longer do that. The people that aren't like me will never understand how much this news sucks..

I understand. And I feel you. I still think you will feel that you are the rocker when you play. The game has the very specific feel. I know it sucks this particular thing didn't make it (again not an oversight so much as technical limitations in a given amount of time) but I still think you'll get the feeling you are looking for.

[Rook_x51]

Yes, if the only way to play the game was with a LAN or a 4 player split screen.

What's wrong with that? I persoally think local multiplayer games are infinitely better than online multiplayer. But everyone has their own opinion on that subject and I doubt you and I agree (judging by the tone of your post)

So I'll give you a gold star for your post, and extra one for bringing back comments from 3 pages ago.

Enjoy, not everyone gets them.

[TheRocker]

Off topic for a second but i just wanted to Thank Harmonix for finally showing us that RockBand for ps3 is working smoothly , i appriciate it Sean thank you and Harmonix again.

[Rook_x51]

I understand. And I feel you. I still think you will feel that you are the rocker when you play. The game has the very specific feel. I know it sucks this particular thing didn't make it (again not an oversight so much as technical limitations in a given amount of time) but I still think you'll get the feeling you are looking for.

Ya, don't get me wrong I'm totally hyped for this game and no news will kill that. If I have to play the 6 hour setlist on the drum kit I will die with a smile on my face.

:)

I think it's about time we let this thread die off. I asked a question and I got an answer. Thanks for sticking through it Sean, we really appreciate the willingness to stick it out to the cold, bitter end.

[Edgehopper]

What's wrong with that? I persoally think local multiplayer games are infinitely better than online multiplayer. But everyone has their own opinion on that subject and I doubt you and I agree (judging by the tone of your post)

So I'll give you a gold star for your post, and extra one for bringing back comments from 3 pages ago.

Enjoy, not everyone gets them.

Sorry, I went off to play Portal for a few hours, and another 5 pages showed up. But anyways, the point is that it's a game mode that's not just hard, but inaccessible to a very large chunk of the game's audience. Team Fortress 2 is a wonderful game, but I wouldn't buy it if my only option for playing it was "try to gather my friends, who by and large hate and/or suck at FPSs". Continuing the comparison to Orange Box, I'd still buy Orange Box since 4/5 of the thing is single player, and I'll still buy Rock Band because the core of the game is accessible single player and online. But I'm very disappointed that by and large the BWT, like TF2 the coolest mode in the game's package, will be inaccessible to people given the time commitment, and will only really be accessible to me as an individual guitarist/vocalist. Unless I can gather a group of strangers who I'm comfortable won't mug me for a weekly Rock Band night.

[Nechronox]

Hmm, well, that's kind of disappointing. I agree with Rook, it would've been nice if your avatar wasn't tied to a specific instrument. Ah well, it's still going to be awesome, even without that.

[Bakkster]

But I'm very disappointed that by and large the BWT, like TF2 the coolest mode in the game's package, will be inaccessible to people given the time commitment, and will only really be accessible to me as an individual guitarist/vocalist. Unless I can gather a group of strangers who I'm comfortable won't mug me for a weekly Rock Band night.

It's not inaccessible if you can do guitar and vox, is it? Not that it isn't inconvenient or less than ideal, but stop trying to make it sound like you can't play BWT by yourself. You can, just not the way you envisioned.
/rant

[Ultrace]

I hear you, man, but me and my buddies got jobs (that don't involve playing games) and spouses and kids. Gaming online is easy once the kids are asleep, but face-to-face gaming is a once-every-couple-of-months kind of thing. Life gets in the way.

I'll have fun doing some BWT with my family, but they are not crazy or stupid enough to do something like Endless Setlist with me.
I'm fortunate to not only have friends in the area who can come over to jam (they were part of our audition band), but a wife who's just as much into this as I am. :)

I think the loss of online WBT is a bit of a hit to the game, but the fact that you can still do online quickplay is amazing. I was so amazed at the tour that I would gladly throw down money for just the local quick play modes, let alone the solo career, online quickplay and local WBT.

And count me in the group of people who think WBT should remain a band experience. There are solo careers for people who aren't operating as a band. We don't know the extent of those as of yet...

[Ultrace]

You know what the problem is? Most people that play these types of games just want to rock. I want to BE a rocker. I want to be the guy that starts out playing in local clubs and ends up doing world tours. And the way I do that is by using the AWESOME character creator and make my avatar. Then I want to play as that awesome character.
I understand where you're coming from, but there's no doubt a logistics and programming constraint involved in this. It's possible they may patch it down the road or include it in the sequel, but in order to make the current deadline, which people are fervently awaiting as it is, it apparently wasn't possible.

[Edgehopper]

It's not inaccessible if you can do guitar and vox, is it? Not that it isn't inconvenient or less than ideal, but stop trying to make it sound like you can't play BWT by yourself. You can, just not the way you envisioned.
/rant

I can play it, though it'll be a pain in the ass. I'm also one of the better Guitar Hero players in NYC and was in an a capella group in college. It's not something most people can do.

[Bakkster]

I can play it, though it'll be a pain in the ass. I'm also one of the better Guitar Hero players in NYC and was in an a capella group in college. It's not something most people can do.

I have no problem with people calling it inconvenient. But to say it's unavailable, or that you can't play it isn't right. It's also not really fair to HMX. Let's just be fair here: feel free to say that this sucks and you're disappointed, but nobody's forcing you to bring a second player over to your house, so quit acting like it.

Sorry if I seem like a jerk, just bothered by people getting angry over an imagined slight.

[espher]

I guess I'm not disappointed in this since it's what I expected. Yes, it would be cool to switch your avatar around, but it seems to me the way it was initially explained (or discussed or whatever) many moons ago was that your avatar was locked into a specific role, and you'd need to make unique ones for each instrument.

It's pretty much exactly how I thought it would work. Same for the BWT.

[BiffMan]

If they were only going to play BWT. We do still have several other online modes where people can pair up and play.

The other modes are certainly cool and all, but tug-of-war and quick play and such aren't really where the focus of this game is. There's been such a phenomenal amount of cool stuff put in to BWT mode and it's going to be so awesome to play that it's just a major, major shame that those of us who have family commitments and can't get together with friends but every couple of weeks won't be able to properly enjoy this mode. If I could link up with my sister for a couple of hours a few nights a week and play BWT, then it'd be fun to watch the band grow. Quick play is fun and all, but it's hardly as compelling an experience as BWT.

Anyway, full props to you guys on what you're doing and I know that everything can't make it into the game. Feels like a kick to the stomach to find out that the main thing my friends and family and I were looking forward to isn't something we're going to be able to do. Without BWT mode, I'm probably no longer going to be able to convince a few fence-sitters to get the game.

Okay. Shed a tear. Heavy sigh. Moving on with life. Still can't wait for the game!

-BiffMan

[BiffMan]

Doesn't this also render about 95% of the posts in the "Band Wanted" forum pointless?

[AdamBomb629]

Doesn't this also render about 95% of the posts in the "Band Wanted" forum pointless?

Hah. I thought the same thing. This must have been a VERY LATE decision by Harmonix.

[Nechronox]

I plan on playing drums and guitar at the same time. I haven't figured out the logistics yet, just that it will freaking ROCK.

Hmm, you might have to bang your head against the pads to do this. Multiple notes would have to be accomplished with your tongue. Wow, that's a creepy image.

[crunchyoverseas]

I FEEL THE DEMONS! THEY ARE TAKING OVER, AND TELLING ME TO LAWYER MY WAY THROUGH.... CAN'T RESIST....... THE ....... VOICES................AAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!:eek:

We seem to have encountered a possible rockblock, a hurdle if you will, on our way to rockstar glory. This hurdle would appear to be a sizable hurdle, that is to say no online BWT mode, but no hurdle is insurmountable as long as the right questions are asked to the right people.

HMXSean would appear to be a gatekeeper of some kind. A threshold of communication from the horrible torch wielding fanboys (myself included), and the obviously pagan, overtaxed, chained-to-their-terminals technical programming innercircle of Harmonix. A human buffer of sorts from the onslaught of the unwashed and angry masses.

Before I plunge into the root of the problem, let my briefly preface this compromise with my particular stand, as a ready consumer, of the aforementioned Harmonix product entitled "Rockband."

Preface:
I am getting my hands on this game. I am not canceling my order. EVER. I don't care what happens in the next ten years, be it Team Fortress level temporal delays, Giant Xbox Red Ring of Death bugs or reports that only 10% of the songlist will actually be accessible. If I have to hunt down the production warehouse on foot and gnaw through the concrete and metal structure with my teeth, I will glue $169.99 to my face and do just that. You cannot stop me from obtaining this game.

If I am maimed and killed before the release date, voodoo priests are instructed to resurrect my corpse with enough manual dexterity to rock your face off. And they will add additional limbs so I can play all instruments simultaneously. You cannot stop the voodoo death corpse multi-limbed rockfest.

Compromise:
So obviously Harmonix is and has been doing all that it can to take this concept to the next level, and having introduced it in the first place, it is here that I lay full acknowledgment and praise at your feet. Clearly you're doing your best. Clearly there is an a$$load of work involved in such a project. It boggles the mind. But we, the consumers, are probably more devoted to this concept then most. And maybe there is a possible way in which we can help you push the envelope from Great game to Milestone of the Video game Industry.

Money:
Where there is money, there is a way. Money buys time, it buys programmers, it buys rocksongs, it is the very backbone of this horribly corrupt and moral-less society we find ourselves in. That being said I see this hurdle as one of three possibilities.

1) Xbox Live cannot handle the bandwidth required to make a functional BWT. I see this as a possibility. They may just be too many technological issues involved in getting 4 USB data paths synch'd and functional without an ungodly amount of lag or drop-out.

2) $$$$$, the Benjamin's. It costs an awful lot of cash to paint of bunch of semi trucks and drive them around the country promoting your product. Add instrument production, programming, music and copyright pay-outs and your looking at a SERIOUS investment. Will it pay off? Can HMX AFFORD to put another programmer on the payroll just for one, little, seemingly insignificant feature?

3) Some other technological hurdle. Maybe their is some other technological hurdle which must be overcome before online BWT mode is even possible. Being a computer science drop-out I understand the high wire act of milestone/feature versus economic reward model. In order for Harmonix to continue to put-out these highly sought after products onto the market requires profitability, especially considering the amount of cash their various partners are dumping on the project.

Conclusion:
If the hurdle is not issue #1, then there is a possible solution. The solution involves soliciting your fanboys for further funds in order to complete this highly sought after feature. So...

1)hire another programmer.
2)allow open-source or moding community to address technological hurdle.
3) third-party solution.

So, what do you need? I got another $30 which says online BWT mode becomes a reality, as a patch...before RB2, which I will be buying as well. If all you need is X amount of devotees to pay X in order to make the patch a reality, than lay it on the community...if it's too much, we will understand. But if $30x1000 (or whatever) = online BWT mode, then I for one have a wad of cash to hand over to you with a full and wide smile across my face.

And if not, whatever, I'm buying the f*ing thing anyway. Not even the cold hand of DEATH can keep me from purchasing this bundle of joy...:D

Thanks for making Rockband,





signed,
devoted fan.

[McDeezy]

It's alot more comlpex than just hiring a new programmer. It takes time to implement things like that. They wanted to do it, but they also wanted to have the game out for the holidays. So it's not gonna happen.

1.XBOX Live could damn well handle it. Bandwidth has nothing to with it. HALO 3 campaign is online? Rock Band could surely work. Online quickplay is possible. It would be the same thing but it would be alot more complex and the online structure would need to be built.

2.Insignifacnt feature? It's a pretty big deal and they are heartbroken they couldn't get it in.

I think your 3rd theory was correct in that its a technilogical hurdle. It's already been said.

[crunchyoverseas]

I'm buying it anyway, and am certain it will rock.

But words are neat....and stuff.

[crunchyoverseas]

1.XBOX Live could damn well handle it. Bandwidth has nothing to with it. HALO 3 campaign is online? Rock Band could surely work. Online quickplay is possible. It would be the same thing but it would be alot more complex and the online structure would need to be built.


Yeah, but your dealing with a different kind of monster. Halo 3 has an established codebase for multiplayer and really has a background of online play (in the genre). the various positional data involving people and bullets and such has been out and improved on since the days of Doom.

We are dealing with a different animal here. Where ms of lag will result in time glitches for players that have to respond based on ms of time. I don't see it as comparable.

[ZkDotNet]

Yeah, but your dealing with a different kind of monster. Halo 3 has an established codebase for multiplayer and really has a background of online play (in the genre). the various positional data involving people and bullets and such has been out and improved on since the days of Doom.

We are dealing with a different animal here. Where ms of lag will result in time glitches for players that have to respond based on ms of time. I don't see it as comparable.
No, that's not the issue. There's still online co-op play, so lag issues aren't the concern here. Players won't be "responding" to lag... they'll per the norm.... if there's lag, it'll only show up in what the other bandmates are hitting (ie, they actually missed note 134 but you'll see it as a missed note for 137 if there's lag*).

But, you're right.. they're not comparable, but not for the reasons you mentioned.

*that's conjecture

[crunchyoverseas]

No, that's not the issue. There's still online co-op play, so lag issues aren't the concern here. Players won't be "responding" to lag... they'll per the norm.... if there's lag, it'll only show up in what the other bandmates are hitting (ie, they actually missed note 134 but you'll see it as a missed note for 137 if there's lag*).

But, you're right.. they're not comparable, but not for the reasons you mentioned.

*that's conjecture

true...there has to be something above and beyond what is happening in the quickplay or co-op play. hmmmm......

[Rook_x51]

The thread! It has risen from the depths of Page 3!

[McDeezy]

true...there has to be something above and beyond what is happening in the quickplay or co-op play. hmmmm......

I think it's because every feature of BWT would have to have Xbox Live integrated into it and because BWT is soooo in depth, it would take a good time to get that done. Plus other things like requiring the same people to finish the tour online, Remote Game saving, and a crap load of stuff.

[a terrible drummer]

Money:
Where there is money, there is a way. Money buys time, it buys programmers, it buys rocksongs, it is the very backbone of this horribly corrupt and moral-less society we find ourselves in. That being said I see this hurdle as one of three possibilities.

1) Xbox Live cannot handle the bandwidth required to make a functional BWT. I see this as a possibility. They may just be too many technological issues involved in getting 4 USB data paths synch'd and functional without an ungodly amount of lag or drop-out.

2) $$$$$, the Benjamin's. It costs an awful lot of cash to paint of bunch of semi trucks and drive them around the country promoting your product. Add instrument production, programming, music and copyright pay-outs and your looking at a SERIOUS investment. Will it pay off? Can HMX AFFORD to put another programmer on the payroll just for one, little, seemingly insignificant feature?

3) Some other technological hurdle. Maybe their is some other technological hurdle which must be overcome before online BWT mode is even possible. Being a computer science drop-out I understand the high wire act of milestone/feature versus economic reward model. In order for Harmonix to continue to put-out these highly sought after products onto the market requires profitability, especially considering the amount of cash their various partners are dumping on the project.



1 is garbage, they already have band quickplay, what could possibly be the technological problem with doing the same exact thing?

2 is garbage, for the same reasons as 1. It's already been made, and it's called band quickplay.

3 is essentially the same thing as 1, and is again, garbage.

The only reason online bandworld tour doesn't exist, I think, is timeframe. My guess is they axed something to shave a week or something off production time. Expediency killed online band world tour I think. But the reasons there are stupid. They've already done all this, all they need to do is implement a "song unlocked" and "venue unlocked" feature like they have in quickplay. I mean, when it comes down to it, the only difference between the two is one moves you around a fake map of the world.

I'd love to hear a believable reason as to why one of possibly the most killer features of rockband was axed, but I refuse to believe there was anything technological or financial in the way. Harmonix are really talented guys, and they already solved the problem of 4USB lines working together flawlessly. IT's already there, why did it cost any money to make? Sure implementation might have been troublesome, but certainly not impossible for Harmonix.

Also, is there any reason why it couldn't be an update? You already have the entire game mechanic implemented in solo tour and band world tour, different xbox live enabled accounts can all play together on the same system already.

I love playing all together and having my friends insult my mother over the microphone, but I mean, it's just not really that feasible to stuff 4 people into a dorm room to play a videogame.

I have it by the way, and am trying to beat hard drums as we speak :D

[Frederf]

A bit of necro-thredia but the mods don't seem to like too many duplicates so I'll just post the quote and ask my question.


No autosaves. No getting to re-do the song if you fail. Endlist setlists are for big-balled men and vagiants.

No retry available if you fail on the endless setlist? This is different from the regular setlists which allow you to try any song you fail as long as you like (and as long as you like losing fans from failure). A confirm/deny would be cool.