Why are Drummers snubbing Rock band as nothing but watered down to real drumming

[HappyCat]

So I visit drummerworld.com and I posted a thread about Rock band and they all dismissed it as basic, easy and unrealistic

like wtf! sure it does compromise when it comes to double bass but the game can get quite difficult and in lots of songs I feel that I am quite literally playing the song

your thoughts?

[Melchiah]

I'd imagine they don't actually know jack about the game... (however, I'm not a real drummer, either)

[Kelvis]

Without actually going to the thread and reading it, I'd think it'd come down to nothing more than 'drum snobbery'.

I've been a guitarist for 31 years, can also play the bass & drums...I'd say for what it is, Rock Band drums (on expert at least) come pretty bloody close.

I'd agree with you as well as regards to feeling as if you're actually playing the song...Was playing 'Seven' by Vagiant last night, headphones on (and blaring loud!) and got so sucked into it I felt as if I was in the studio with the band! :)

Besides...WTF would they know about anything? They're drummers! :P

[afterstasis]

i've been playing real drums for over 15 years and i can tell you that expert drums on the game is a fantastic intro to real-life drumming with a completely straight face. sure, there are only 4 pads, no hi-hat pedal, and the drums aren't velocity-sensitive, but noone is claiming that rock band drums are perfect substitutes for real drumming. it's all about teaching balance, coordination, timing, and so forth.

[JorynnRace]

Drumming in Rock Band is pretty close, but there are so many nuances to real drumming that can never be done on RB drums.

For example, open and closed high-hat (it will be interesting to see how the mad catz high hat works), clacking the rim of the snare (requires 2 or more sensors as in real electronic drums), cross armed snare / high-hat play (again Mad Catz might be able to help here). But then there is also the fact that in real drumming there are different sounds to be made based on how you hit a cymbal/drum head.

Don't get me wrong. I love RB, it has gotten me back into real drumming. A beginner can learn some basic beat patterns, but the fact is that it is limited, and there are much more complicated things that can be done on real drums. (whether acoustic or electric)

Another thing is the feel, as well as hand-eye dependence versus ear and memory dependence. If you have never sat in front of a real kit, the first time you do will be very intimidating. It just isn't the same thing.

The other thing I was talking about is the fact that playing RB requires a higher dependence on hand-eye coordination as you watch the notes scroll down. Real drumming requires that you depend pretty much entirely on your hearing. It's true that by playing RB you will begin to memorize beats, which is helpful, but listening to music and playing those beats will be much more beneficial in the future (should you plan to get into real drumming).

[v1g1lance1]

I'd go with drum snobbery.

I picked up my first real kit after playing RB for a few months. While I find sitting in front of a real kit very very different in a lot of ways, what RB has allowed me to do is spend less time focusing on limb independence (hi-hat excluded, I still have to concentrate hard on that right now) and more time just 'feeling' the music and playing along.

There's no doubt, at all, that RB gave me a massive leg up in a FUN and FAST way. I find playing real drums makes me better at RB and playing RB makes me better at real drums.

Once again, thx HMX for introducing me to drums. I love it.

edit: MY drum teacher is constantly surprised at how fast I pick up rhythms considering I've never been on a kit before. I keep telling him it's credited to RB. Fun Fact: He just got another new student because of Rock Band :)

Peace,
Ian

[chillzatl]

Scroll down for Musician Douche (http://www.guidespot.com/guides/3mj?rss)

[Abaddon]

If you have never sat in front of a real kit, the first time you do will be very intimidating. It just isn't the same thing.I am sure this is true, I have never played real drums before and just imagining doing it is a bit intimidating. But I had a funny thought, if you were to stick a real drummer in front of Rock Band they'd have the exact same reaction.
The other thing I was talking about is the fact that playing RB requires a higher dependence on hand-eye coordination as you watch the notes scroll down. Real drumming requires that you depend pretty much entirely on your hearing. It's true that by playing RB you will begin to memorize beats, which is helpful, but listening to music and playing those beats will be much more beneficial in the future (should you plan to get into real drumming).Don't real drummers ever read music? I have a background in piano and singing (and now play guitar) and in every case there's a lot of sightreading going on. Obviously the format is different, but Rock Band is still sightreading. Rock Drummers (rock musicians for that matter) obviously don't have sheet music, but I would wager classical percussionists do...

[RedJaguar]

Rock Drummers (rock musicians for that matter) obviously don't have sheet music, but I would wager classical percussionists do...

As a classical percussionist, kit drummer and marching percussionist - yes to both.

While most kit drummers don't read music while playing, there is sheet music to alot of the songs out there that is written for the kit - I have seen (and used) these..

A classical percussionist MUST be able to read music and play at the same time. -unless you're a marching percussionist, in which case everything must be memorized :D

Also, most kit drummers - who play for a living - have played classical percussion at some point in time - it comes with the territory (unless you are in a band making money at it) as there tend to be more gigs with classical percussion than kits..

hmm.. think I may have been a little off topic..

But - RB is a GREAT intro into drumming on a kit! Add in a high hat pedal/high hat for RB2 (or 3+) used only in 'extreme' mode (above expert) and you have a full blown intro to real drumming - and the limb (including foot) independence workouts.

All of the drummers who 'snub' RB are like all the guitarist's who 'snub' the GH series + RB - they haven't played it, and don't realize how fun of a game it actually is- yes it's not the 'real thing', but it's as close as non musicians can get to get a 'feel' - and with this feel (and the messages about 'buy a real kit' 'upgrade to a real guitar' in the game) HMX is helping to keep music alive and mainstream and helping people *want* to buy a real instrument and learn it :)

On a side not - I also play classical/fiddle style violin - and am really annoyed at myself that I haven't picked it up in a year to play ... Classical style is a dying art -- we need an "Orchestra" game to rebuild the interest in all of the great classical style music out there! (and for the people who will hate on this style - ever watch movies? you know the scenes would NOT be the same without the music behind it!) ...

whoops - drifted off topic..

[leroystanks]

As Smashing Pumpkins drummer Jimmy Chamberlin said, "There are two kinds of people: those who can play drums, and everybody else."

Rock Band, at the very least, will teach you basic coordination and how to make your limbs independent of each other. That's most of the battle right there.

[dada limbo]

"Drummers *****ing about rhythm-game drumming" is the new "guitarists *****ing about rhythm-game guitars."

[Zildjian77]

I guess drummers who trash RB drums don't understand that Rock Band is a game and not meant to replace real drumming??? Maybe if they actually tried playing the game they'd like it...

Anyway, I'm a real drummer and I absolutely love Rock Band! :D

[orange_black]

Rockband is the best thing to happen to drumming.

Its getting a whole new generation of kids into REAL music. Hopefully they'll take the leap of faith and get a real kit and become awesome drummers down the road.

Ive said it before the GREATEST thing rockband does for the beginners... is it aboslutely forces them to stay on beat... like playing with a metronome. That is the hardest thing to do for beginning drummers ...

.... Run to the hills not included ... hahaha

:)

EDIT: as for the title of the thread. IT IS WATERED DOWN. But thats ok, its still fun as hell.

[tysonisbatman]

I had a funny thought, if you were to stick a real drummer in front of Rock Band they'd have the exact same reaction.

You would think so, but when i first got RB my friend whose been playing drums for years came over and nailed Vasoline on expert. It was his first time playing i had just graduated to medium lol.

[IBitePrettyHard]

Without even reading it, I can tell you it is snobbery or elitism. I have a lot of respect for the site and the users there, but they need to realize it's a game. Rock Band doesn't threaten to replace modern drumming as we know it...everyone should know it's not a perfect simulation of playing drums. If it was, it wouldn't be a game, lol.

[xxzone]

Yeah it's them feeling threatened that anybody with 180$ is going to be able to pick up a game and learn to do what they have been doing for however many years. They refuse to believe that anybody can gain the talent they have by playing a game...it's supposed to be harder.

I've been playing on and off since 5th grade and I'm now mid 30's. I haven't played for about 10 years, and this game has been great to get my coordination back. There is definitely a learning curve to go to expert, and playing growing up definitely helped me get there earlier (I'm still only half expert and half hard). Knowing the basics and how to count and actually read notes has helped with picking up the trickier songs a little quicker.

[Lord_Beelzebub]

Well of course real drummers are going to have that reaction, their used to playing real drums. Sure this games drum set is watered down version of the real thing, but it's a GAME we're playing. It's supposed to give us a simulation of playing a real drum set and I think it does a fine job of it. If real drummers are buying this game and expect it to be like playing a real drum set, then it's obvious they have no commen sence that it won't be. Like someone else mentioned, 'drum snobbery'.

[darlenerules14]

I would say real drumming is a lot more about feeling/keeping a beat while RB drums are more about hitting the charted notes correctly. Both have their pros/cons.

I'm not a real drummer, but as an insturmentalist (trumpet) I follow other players to pick up on where the beat is and not speed up or slow down. In real drumming you are in charge of the tempo maintence. On RB you can tell if you are changing tempos much easier because you see that you visually miss the notes and the bass/guitar/vocal tracks aren't going to follow your lead.

But, on the other hand, as a real drummer you have much more poetic liscense in what you actually play (i.e. when you don't have the overdrive option during a drum fill on RB and have to play the charted fill)

[MSG__]

I've never played a intrument, ever and i can do 84 of 113 songs on expert, the rest on hard. I'm deployed to iraq right now, but when i get back, thanks to rockband im buying a real kit, only problem is, what am i going to use more, the real kit or rockband? cause i love rockband

[MynamewasR4d]

First: Quote this if you can see it. Im having an identity crisis and scared noone can read what im writing

Okay, when i was 12 i sat behind a kit for the first time, and was completely lost, had no idea what i was doing. I just banged on stuff essentially, and gave it up because i was a quitter back then.

I got RB for my 20th B-Day from my g/f. I started on medium, and worked my way up through the gauntlet. I am all expert now. RB awakened a desire to drum again, so i went out and bought a kit for myself

so, in early may, i got a drum kit, got it home, set it up and just looked at it. I was scared, because i remember how dumb and lost i felt when i was 12. I sat down, got situated, and tapped around for 30 seconds before i said "aw what the hell" and just started playing.

Much to me and my girlfriends suprise, i was actually handling myself pretty well. Not good, by any means, but i had a firm grasp of pretty basic structure and was making very simple drum music. It was really exhilirating, and crazy amounts of fun.

So, to anyone who says it doesnt help, i say, screw you, because it is the only reason i can come close to a kit without fear anymore

[xianzai]

I got RB in January and picked up an Alessis e kit a month later. I've connected the e kit to RB and its awsome.
I take my first drum lesson tomorrow. Can't wait

[BuRn7 CaK3]

i dont know it anyone watches AoTS or not. (Attack of the Show!)

But Kevin Pereira did something about the drums on rock band and he said that it's "Similiar" to playing the real drums. He Played with Coheed And Cambria on "Welcome Home"

watch this!

http://www.g4tv.com/attackoftheshow/videos/20873/Coheed_and_Cambria_with_Kevin_Pereira.html

[theViper79]

Ive been a real drummer for 7 years and ya RB is close in some ways but not others ya know

like limb independence is the best thing you can learn from it! This is the hardest thing to learn for beginners so RB is excellent for the purpose

and also certain drum patterns you could learn from the game but not much else

so basically RB will put you ahead when you play on a real kit but thats about it
Dont get me wrong I think the drums are great in this game though :)

[erickOnasis412]

I saw a similar thread on drums.com forum, and it seemed 50/50 as to what other drummers thought about Rock Band drums. Most of them did agree that it will surely teach hand/foot coordination and help you learn basics though. I think it definitely helps people know if they can drum or not though, lol.. alot of my friends come over and just can't play the drums for the life of them. But the game is just meant to be fun, but at the same time; I think it's surprisingly great to getting people to learn the basics and stuff!

[Tralfmadorian]

I think drummers take offense to people saying "I can play Rock Band, so that means I can play real drums".

It takes lots and lots of practice to become a good drummer. RB basically replaces your first week of drum lessons, that is to say, it barely scratches the surface of what it means to be a drummer.

It gets the same reaction as GH and guitar gameplay in Rock Band gets from guitarists. "It's fun and entertaining, but it isn't anything like playing the real thing."

[Ultimatum]

So I visit drummerworld.com and I posted a thread about Rock band and they all dismissed it as basic, easy and unrealistic

like wtf! sure it does compromise when it comes to double bass but the game can get quite difficult and in lots of songs I feel that I am quite literally playing the song

your thoughts?

It's because this game has no timekeeping of any kind.

Playing a Tool song with the notes set in time right in front of you is_MUCH_easier than actually having to count it out.

[Hakken]

i've been playing real drums for over 15 years and i can tell you that expert drums on the game is a fantastic intro to real-life drumming with a completely straight face. sure, there are only 4 pads, no hi-hat pedal, and the drums aren't velocity-sensitive, but noone is claiming that rock band drums are perfect substitutes for real drumming. it's all about teaching balance, coordination, timing, and so forth.


Exactly, couldn't put it better. I never played drums before in my life, i got to expert in about a month after the game came out, decided i wanted a real set, I got 1, and thanks to the help from rock band teaching me how to use coordination with my hands, feet, etc I'm a pretty decent drummer, I'm in a band and we play a few gigs, rock band helped alot with that.

[the_finn]

as mentioned, Rock Band IS just a game. And despite how 'realistic' it may be, the fact is it remains a game, and those pickin on the game for being 'too unrealistic' are themselves being unrealistic, and need a couple of chill pills.

That being said, of all the instruments (aside from perhaps the mic).. the drums would be by-far the MOST 'realistic' of the play mechanics.

Incidently, i'ld never let a 'real drummer' anywhere near my RB drums anyway, i dont think (most) would remember that its not a full drumkit and would use too much force in their playing (I suspect thats a large cause of all those broken drum-kits around).

[Ultimatum]

Meh, you guys probably have worse technique than us. We bash, but we also rebound off the head.

[SlivedCupWinner]

It's pretty much snobbery imo.

Yes, there are nuances to playing a real kit versus playing the RB kit, like learning how hard to hit, the hi hat pedal, etc. But if you can play expert in RB, you're a drummer. Just like you picked up the new skills to be good at RB drums, you'll pick up those other things, too. Just beacause you didn't go through a training regime and strictly practice rudiments doesn't rule you out as a capable drummer.

Just my 2 pennies.

[BuRn7 CaK3]

you guys should totally watch that video i posted on my last post on this thread. (its on page 3). its pretty cool. literally.

[Ultimatum]

It's pretty much snobbery imo.

Yes, there are nuances to playing a real kit versus playing the RB kit, like learning how hard to hit, the hi hat pedal, etc. But if you can play expert in RB, you're a drummer. Just like you picked up the new skills to be good at RB drums, you'll pick up those other things, too. Just beacause you didn't go through a training regime and strictly practice rudiments doesn't rule you out as a capable drummer.

Just my 2 pennies.

Yes, but not being able to keep time DOES.

[swings1940]

It is the same when a guitar player pulls the I don't think its anything like a real guitar. Well, duh it isn't. Its a plastic guitar and has plastic buttons and a plastic strum bar. I tell them they can play and have fun as a group of friends or be all snobby about their talent with a guitar.

The same goes for drums. I play the "real drums" (so cliche) and found the game difficult at first because guess what I wasn't used to following little dots on a screen. The drums are pretty good at teaching you rudiments and how to coordinate your limbs to play at different times or in sync.

Check out this comic. It sums the whole snobby real instrument playing stuff up.

xckd comic about Rockband (http://www.xckd.com/359/)

[swings1940]

i dont know it anyone watches AoTS or not. (Attack of the Show!)

But Kevin Pereira did something about the drums on rock band and he said that it's "Similiar" to playing the real drums. He Played with Coheed And Cambria on "Welcome Home"

watch this!

http://www.g4tv.com/attackoftheshow/videos/20873/Coheed_and_Cambria_with_Kevin_Pereira.html
Awesome! The Drummer was impressed that he had the timming and basics down. As the drummer said. It is cool that Rockband is there to teach the motions of drumming.

[BuRn7 CaK3]

Awesome! The Drummer was impressed that he had the timming and basics down. As the drummer said. It is cool that Rockband is there to teach the motions of drumming.

yeah it is. The Drummer of C&C is funny though. Kevin was awesome at playing Welcome Home though.

[davidshek]

Simply put, because it IS watered down compared to real drumming.

But a lot of the opinions expressed in that link are heavily simmering in snob sauce.


Yes, there are nuances to playing a real kit versus playing the RB kit, like learning how hard to hit, the hi hat pedal, etc. But if you can play expert in RB, you're a drummer.

No, you're not. And just by you saying that, I know that you're not a real-life drummer. These things are not nuances. They are essential to playing the drums.


Just because you didn't go through a training regime and strictly practice rudiments doesn't rule you out as a capable drummer.

Sorry, but yes it does. It makes you a capable RB drummer. It does NOT make you a capable real-life drummer.


Awesome! The Drummer was impressed that he had the timming and basics down. As the drummer said. It is cool that Rockband is there to teach the motions of drumming.

Kevin had the timing and the basics down because he already knew how to play the drums before that. You can tell that just from watching the fills he does. Rock Band didn't teach him that. Years of drumming experience did.

[BuRn7 CaK3]

Simply put, because it IS watered down compared to real drumming.

then watch that video i posted. :cool:

[davidshek]

then watch that video i posted. :cool:

I saw that video months ago when it was first put up. And I know that Kevin Pereira already knew how to play drums before that. And I've been playing drums myself for 17 years (check the link in my sig).

I'm not disagreeing with the statement that they are similar to playing real drums. But they are, without a doubt, a watered down version :p

"Watered down" does not mean it's not alike at all. It just means (in this particular case) highly simplified.

[yelladog32]

A classical percussionist MUST be able to read music and play at the same time. -unless you're a marching percussionist, in which case everything must be memorized :D




I loved my old high school's drum cadence for marching and for football games. Written by the class above us and it was an awesome listen...

[SlivedCupWinner]

No, you're not. And just by you saying that, I know that you're not a real-life drummer. These things are not nuances. They are essential to playing the drums.

Sorry, but yes it does. It makes you a capable RB drummer. It does NOT make you a capable real-life drummer.


Yes. Because of a few lines I posted in a game forum, you know everything about me.

Whether you started out on a snare in band, a timpani in orchestra or just played RB. You have to start somewhere. Is it basic and easy? Yes.

But, unrealistic? That my friend is where it becomes snobbish.

The fact that any supposed "real" drummer would make the statement that RB drums just don't compare are kidding themselves. Does playing RB drums make someone neil pert? Of course not. But no one starts out playing like that. I don't mean to make light of truly great drummers who are masters of their craft, but for those people to say that RB drummers can't be real drummers are dismissing where they started.

[rkuo]

I feel like I cover this pretty well in my article "Rock Band drumming vs real drumming - what you learn, and what you don't (http://www.rkuo.com/blogs/rkuo_blog/pages/Rock-Band-drumming-vs-real-drumming.aspx)". If you guys have more to add to it, feel free.

Becoming good at Rock Band drums saves you way more than a week of lessons. The bottom line is that it will take you pretty far and can help expose some raw talent if you haven't played drums before, but it isn't the whole story.

It's really not a black and white issue...but anyone claiming one of the extremes is either biased, uninformed, or stupid. If you want a positive outlook on this, tho, I think it's indisputable that you learn real, fundamental skills that will translate to playing on a real drum kit, should you choose to do so.

[cleee]

I think that a lot of people who play actual drums and guitar get pissy at games like Rock Band because they've spent years practicing and learning to play and then here come these gamers who can use a plastic instrument controller and sound "just like Van Halen" or whoever.

I frankly don't get it. Football players don't freak out when gamer X rules at Madden. Baseball players aren't cowering in fear because Joe Gamer hit .700 in The Show so why is this different?

I think anyone who believes that they are a musician because they can play rock band and don't play a regular instrument should be dismissed as ignorant. The rest of us know what we are-- and are not-- doing.

There should, however, be some props to people who have advanced on the drums in RB though. Getting that limb independence was a nightmare for me but it finally clicked in. I think anyone who can master that in RB first would benefit greatly if they move on to learning real drums. Of course, they'd need to add in the second independent leg but having one of them is definitely a plus going in.

[davidshek]

Wow, so many twistings around of my words in one post! I'll have to respond to each one in turn.


Yes. Because of a few lines I posted in a game forum, you know everything about me.

I never claimed to know everything about you. But I can tell that you don't play drums.


But, unrealistic? That my friend is where it becomes snobbish.

Show me where I said the word "unrealistic".


The fact that any supposed "real" drummer would make the statement that RB drums just don't compare are kidding themselves.

Once again, show me where I said they "just don't compare". I didn't. I even said they're similar, but simplified.


I don't mean to make light of truly great drummers who are masters of their craft, but for those people to say that RB drummers can't be real drummers are dismissing where they started.

And one more time, I never said they CAN'T be real drummers. I said that right now they AREN'T real drummers.

Good god man, why don't you actually read what I post, especially if you're going to quote it in your reply. :rolleyes:

[Abaddon]

I'm not disagreeing with the statement that they are similar to playing real drums. But they are, without a doubt, a watered down version :pI find it really hard to fathom that people think that four plastic pads and a single pedal is not a huge simplification of a real (basic) drum kit... c'mon people. Yes, it rocks, and yes it is "similar" to the real deal -- the number of real drummers who are also great at Rock Band is the best proof that can be offered of this.

[ManicMinerUK]

I think you need to ask yourself why you care what they think, and why you are so upset about their opinion?

You seem very invested in the idea that RB is just like the real thing, and you are upset when someone points out that it isn't, but kid, it just isn't... you are playing a plastic drum kit and pretending its the real thing, just like the guitarist is pretending its a real guitar. It's clearly massively simplified (lack of hi-hat means there's a whole limb missing, for a start), just as much as the RB/GH guitar is a massive simplification of a real guitar. It's not just the mechanics of playing that are simplified, its the whole feel, the light and shade of musical performance.

I'm not saying this to be cruel, it's just the truth. Get over this fact and you can start enjoying the game again, and move on with your life and stuff, and you won't feel so bad about it. Seriously.

[Ryder35]

It's clearly massively simplified (lack of hi-hat means there's a whole limb missing, for a start), just as much as the RB/GH guitar is a massive simplification of a real guitar.

errm: no! The drums are no where near as simplified as the guitar, do the math as our US friends would say, real guitar 6 stringd times 23 frets and open notes. Real basic drum kit? 4 pads 2 cymbals and a hi hat? (not a drummer so guessing a bit) vs 4 pads. Also drums in RB teach you things that are useful for playing real drums, guitar in RB does not.

[killer_roach]

There's a greater likelihood of a real drummer being good at RB drums than, say, a real guitarist being good at Guitar Hero (there are many a story of real guitarists who can't even clear their own songs in the GH games).

That aside, it's close, but not the same. Calling yourself a real drummer because you can clear WGFA in RB is kinda like calling yourself a race car driver because you won a few kart races at the local track. It's a good achievement, and you possess the necessary skill set, but you still have a ways to go, Padawan. :)

[nreality]

i never understand why some real drummers were snobs about it.. drums were the first instruments i learned to play when i was 12..

and when the drums came out for rockband i thought it was cool but i was a bad chart reader since i never played GH guitar or the RB band guitar.. but i had the coordination already

anyways.. as a real drummer.. i had to give some tips to my nephew and his friends, to help the change to RB drums to real drums.. but it won't take long to get rid of the expectation of charts and too "hear" the music and not worry about being perfect, as long as they keep the beat.. and have fun

[apexnerd]

I checked out the drummer world forum described in the original post.

Most of the posts seem well thought out and down right even-handed.

Then there are posts like this (copied and pasted from the forum)


"unless your playing expert and your game has no lag time it is just another thing that tries to convince the world that drumming is the easiest instrument on earth."

Snobbery seems to be giving way to insecurity here.

Remember, there is a dusty old joke passed around from musician to musician for generations:


"Q:What do you call the guy who hangs around with the band?
A: The drummer."

Some professional drummers must really have thin skin about this running joke.

In my limited experience there is only one kind of person who tries to play drums on Rock Band and walks away honestly thinking it is easy and that is... a skilled and polished drummer.

(And I'm not counting the jerkasses who claim that drumming is easy, because they are clearly lying through their jerkass teeth.)

I have never seen anyone come away from playing drums on Rock Band and say anything like "after playing drums on Rock Band I am now convinced that drumming is the easiest instrument on earth. Now if you will pardon me, I shall now go to Canada, find that guy from Rush, and pwn him."

Most people I've seen try drums for the first time on Rock Band struggle to finish warm up songs on Easy difficulty setting. In fact the only consistent sentiment I've heard from Rock Band players without drum experience is "drums are too hard."

If anything, Rock Band is intended to convince people that a drum set is a real instrument that is really difficult, challenging, and rewarding to play.

I can see guitarists, with their massive egos, getting all bunched up about Guitar Hero. But drummers really should know better.

Rock Band appears to be instilling a deeper appreciation of drumming in the minds of civilians.

Drummers are actually at significant risk of getting something from the video game community that they seem to not be getting from their fellow musicians... respect.

[buddylee 1975]

well when i first saw rock band at a friends house.I thought how lame,but when i started playing i fell in love with it. I love all kinds of music and toyed around with learning a bass guitar. When i played rock band made me realize how mutch fun it could be. I saved my money and bought a used fender p-bass and a eden nemesis 12 in amp combo and love it. right know im teaching my self to play and very soon starting classes to improve faster.


so don't knock rock band if you don't like don't play it

very simple concecpt.

[Ultimatum]

Yes. Because of a few lines I posted in a game forum, you know everything about me.

Whether you started out on a snare in band, a timpani in orchestra or just played RB. You have to start somewhere. Is it basic and easy? Yes.

But, unrealistic? That my friend is where it becomes snobbish.

The fact that any supposed "real" drummer would make the statement that RB drums just don't compare are kidding themselves. Does playing RB drums make someone neil pert? Of course not. But no one starts out playing like that. I don't mean to make light of truly great drummers who are masters of their craft, but for those people to say that RB drummers can't be real drummers are dismissing where they started.

The number one rule of drumming is keeping time, if you can't do that, you won't get the gig.

RB DOES NOT teach to keep time.

[coolcool23]

Most of my technique has come from rock band as of lately although I have not drummed on it in a month or so.

I've been playing My real drums too much!

If anyone here wants anymore evidence, look at the link in my sig for an example of playing to rockband songs directly from the note chart.

[smith5879]

Now I love RB and playing drums is my favorite instrument, but that's all it really is, just watered down drumming. How can you say it's not? You have 4 pads and a bass pedal. Now go take a look at one of Neil Peart's drumsets and tell me RB isn't watered down drumming. RB can give you the coordination to play real drums though, but it's definitely NOT the same. Don't confuse that with snobbery. If I get awesome lap times in GT5 do I have the nerve to think I'm as good as a real race car driver? Not by a long shot. Don't take the game for more (or less) than it is.

[Abaddon]

Now go take a look at one of Neil Peart's drumsets and tell me RB isn't watered down drumming.Based on this absurd standard, how many drummers are there on the planet that don't use "watered down" kits?

Actually, that brings an interesting question to mind. Is someone who only knows how to play on a quad (marching band) a "real drummer"? I am in no way shape or form a "real drummer" so I don't even know if there are people that only play on a quad and not a drumkit... but I would argue that they are indeed "real drummers" despite not operating any pedal of any sort. In practice they probably know how to play on a lot of other stuff so this question might be a bit unrealistic.

Given the variety of drumkits out there I think the "pieces/positions" thing is a bit overblown as a knock against Rock Band-only drummers. Sure, it's a simplified kit, but kits vary widely. I think the time-keeping (none in Rock Band) and the "playing back a pre-recorded sound at the perfect time and volume and characteristic as long as you hit the timing window" are much bigger distinctions between real drumming and rock band drumming. Again, as a non-drummer so take this with a huge grain of salt ;).

[SlivedCupWinner]

Wow, so many twistings around of my words in one post! I'll have to respond to each one in turn.

I never claimed to know everything about you. But I can tell that you don't play drums.

I do play drums. I'm not great, but there it is.


Show me where I said the word "unrealistic".

I did not say that you said unrealistic, that was in the OP. I thought we were talking about what the OP posted.


Once again, show me where I said they "just don't compare". I didn't. I even said they're similar, but simplified.

Just don't compare is another way of saying unrealistic, again in the OP.


And one more time, I never said they CAN'T be real drummers. I said that right now they AREN'T real drummers.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this point. Percussion isn't just about sitting in front of a "real" kit. Beating on anything with a particular rythm is drumming. That's just my opinion.



Good god man, why don't you actually read what I post, especially if you're going to quote it in your reply. :rolleyes:

I think we both missed some information in the passing of electrons. This conversation probably would have been much different had we been talking face to face.

[HappyCat]

The number one rule of drumming is keeping time, if you can't do that, you won't get the gig.

RB DOES NOT teach to keep time.

I find that RB helps me to keep in in time

like in real drumming I tend to play a bit faster than the actual song but RB forces me to keep in time

[Ultimatum]

It's not teaching, you have the notes laid out already in position.

I guarantee that if you try to play it in real life with no guide laid out in front of you, like it is in RB, then you won't keep time, especially when it comes to fills.

[dagware]

I guarantee that if you try to play it in real life with no guide laid out in front of you, like it is in RB, then you won't keep time, especially when it comes to fills.

I can personally vouch for this. :o


It's not teaching, you have the notes laid out already in position.

I have to disagree with this statement. If this were true, then nobody would ever use piano books to learn piano (for example). I agree that there are definite limits to what RB can teach an aspiring drummer, but the fact is, it can teach some things. Just not everything, and most likely not enough to turn someone into a drummer all by itself. But it's not completely worthless. The fact I can separate my (right) foot from my hands is itself a wonderful thing to have learned.

Dan

[tetsuyabh]

Anyone who complains about the people who play Rock Band/Guitar Hero are jerks.

I don't know anybody who's ever walked away from a RB session thinking "Sweet, I know how to play the drums now." It's a game, using toys for controllers, and everybody knows that.

To all the haters: Lighten up!

[tetsuyabh]

Sorry for the double-post, but this one is unrelated to my previous post.


Actually, that brings an interesting question to mind. Is someone who only knows how to play on a quad (marching band) a "real drummer"? I am in no way shape or form a "real drummer" so I don't even know if there are people that only play on a quad and not a drumkit... but I would argue that they are indeed "real drummers" despite not operating any pedal of any sort. In practice they probably know how to play on a lot of other stuff so this question might be a bit unrealistic.

There is a joke at my college: when a drummer can read music, he becomes a "percussionist," and has graduated from the lowly position of "drummer," haha.

But yeah, the drumkit is a recent invention in the time line of music, and is really only used in a niche, and is composed of percussion originally used for other genres (snare, bass, "quads," cymbals, etc). So, to say that anyone who can't play the drumkit renders all percussionists before the 1930s, according to some people on this thread, untalented and useless.

[mrt638]

I am a expert rockband drummer and also a expert real drummer. When I do private lessons with young begineers I let them play Rockband last 10 minutes of the lesson because it will build up upperarm muscle and like said before it will help cordination. I have found rockband to be very good tool to build up upeer arm stregth and help teach young drummers.