The Destruction of GnR

[m00p]

Wanted to get some opinions on this. Some people believe GnR died after the "Use Your Illusion" Tour. Some believe Guns n Roses is still "alive". Meaning they are performing new songs, that are actually decent. The last single Guns n Roses (original line-up) wrote was "Sympathy for the Devil", a cover of the Rolling Stones hit.

The destruction of Guns n Roses, IMHO began right after the Argentina tour ended. Axl Rose had some major issues by then. The Spaghetti Incident was released in 1993, and their was very few appropiate songs on the Album. Axl Rose was a near demon by this point, even wanting to add Charles Manson's song to the album. The only song I like on the album is the cover of the Skyliner's song "Since I Don't Have You". The tension increased within the band during The Spaghetti Incident.

Axl Rose began to work on the track "Sympathy for the Devil" for an upcoming movie. This is when Slash and Axl got in a couple arguments, and after recording the song. Slash left the band.

IMO, GnR had started to decline after the Use Your Illusion Tours and the GNR-Metallica tour. I believe GnR officially died when Izzy left in 1991. What do you guys think?

[Rockbandfan23467]

Original line-up? What about Adler laving for Sourm?

And Current GNR is one of the best fake bands ever.

[Sayburr]

I believe GnR officially died when Izzy left in 1991. What do you guys think?

Izzy was the soul of the band. He was the one person keeping the egos in check, when he couldn't take it any more, the band stopped functioning as a band and became a group of people playing together.

Izzy had a great solo project, the rest of the band members who have recorded have mixed results. At least that is how I see it.

[m00p]

Adler quit the band because he had major issues. All the drugs he took earlier in his life had caused him to have a speach impedement. If you see some of the interviews with him in 2006 or 2008, he is seriously handicapped.

When I said " original lineup" i meant : Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, and Sorum.

[Rockbandfan23467]

Adler quit the band because he had major issues. All the drugs he took earlier in his life had caused him to have a speach impedement. If you see some of the interviews with him in 2006 or 2008, he is seriously handicapped.

When I said " original lineup" i meant : Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, and Sorum.

So make it say The Real Guns N Roses or something.

Anyone want a reunion?



I sure don't. Axl needs to die.

[Kelvis]

For me, the lineup that recorded 'Appetite For Destruction' was the *real* Guns 'n' Roses. Their major label debut was filled with killer songs and edgy performances - the whole thing seems to be hanging from a thread where it could all fall apart at any second, yet it holds together...That's what's so exciting, and so "rock 'n' roll" about it.

While on the other hand, the 'Use Your Illusion' albums were more the 'finely crafted audio experience tailored speficially for your listening pleasure' kinda deals (imo)...The difference in the touring band also, where there was the studio pro Sorum on drums, Dizzy Reed on keyboards and two female backing singers. :S

Don't get me wrong, it was a great band - just not as cool as the two guitars, bass, drums & vox of the 'Appetite' tour.

If you get a chance, try to find the DVD of G'n'R's 'Live at the Ritz' in New York - it was filmed for MTV in 1988 and is just *electrifying*.

Here's the opening song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yir4erYkyIs

[AxlVanHagar]

I believe GnR officially died when Izzy left in 1991. What do you guys think?


Bingo! We have a winnah! I've said it beifre I'll say it again, was the heart and soul of the band, Slash and Axl were the image. I've seen Gn'R in every incarnation of the band since te Appetite lineup. I've seen them in 500 seat clubs when no one knew who they were and I've seen them play 80,000 seat stadiums at the height of their success. I can tell you first hands that the first show that I saw without Izzy there the chemistry that used to be there was gone. It was still could and this isn't a shot against Gilby Clarke but it was different from that point on. It was still a good time but you knew the party was beginning to wind down.

[AxlVanHagar]

Adler quit the band because he had major issues. All the drugs he took earlier in his life had caused him to have a speach impedement. If you see some of the interviews with him in 2006 or 2008, he is seriously handicapped.

When I said " original lineup" i meant : Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, and Sorum.

Actually Adler was fired from the band for the drug use. Slash goes into this in his auto-biography and talks about how that never really sat well with him to fire Steve. He felt everyone , except Axl oddly enough, was overdoing it with drugs and it was hypocritical of them to fire him for something they were all doing. From reading Slash's book and several others it seems Axl was the only one to not have a drug habit in the band, strange.

The speech impediment comes from the stroke he suffered that was brought about by his addictions.

[Fatal_T]

For me, the lineup that recorded 'Appetite For Destruction' was the *real* Guns 'n' Roses. Their major label debut was filled with killer songs and edgy performances - the whole thing seems to be hanging from a thread where it could all fall apart at any second, yet it holds together...That's what's so exciting, and so "rock 'n' roll" about it.

While on the other hand, the 'Use Your Illusion' albums were more the 'finely crafted audio experience tailored speficially for your listening pleasure' kinda deals (imo)...The difference in the touring band also, where there was the studio pro Sorum on drums, Dizzy Reed on keyboards and two female backing singers. :S

Don't get me wrong, it was a great band - just not as cool as the two guitars, bass, drums & vox of the 'Appetite' tour.

If you get a chance, try to find the DVD of G'n'R's 'Live at the Ritz' in New York - it was filmed for MTV in 1988 and is just *electrifying*.

Here's the opening song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yir4erYkyIs

Kelvis - you've hit it right on the head. The "Appetite" Guns N' Roses was really the best version of the band; I liked the "Use Your Illusion" CD's at first, but they got put away rather quickly. They just seemed to be lacking the fire of the earlier effort.

[Sikkinixx6]

Hammer meets nail in perfect harmony!

Couldnt have put that better myself mate. I would add however that given most of the songs included on the Illusion albums were written during the Appetite period do you think that different production would have improved that album any?

I think that there are many good tracks on Illusion but the production is souless and takes away from the dynamic aggression that was so purely refined in appetite.

So my question to you is this. Had the Illusion Albums been recorded by Mike Clink by an angry band with nothing to lose on the breadline would it have been more popular?

[Kelvis]

Hammer meets nail in perfect harmony!

Couldnt have put that better myself mate. I would add however that given most of the songs included on the Illusion albums were written during the Appetite period do you think that different production would have improved that album any?

I think that there are many good tracks on Illusion but the production is souless and takes away from the dynamic aggression that was so purely refined in appetite.

So my question to you is this. Had the Illusion Albums been recorded by Mike Clink by an angry band with nothing to lose on the breadline would it have been more popular?

Absolutely, yes. For the reasons you've written above - I always thought it'd be kinda hard to be an angry, 'street' band if you were living in a palatial mansion with 25 million dollars in the bank...

[Sikkinixx6]

Back on topic, I would say that GNR died once Izzy went back to Lafayette to recover from his smack problems, this was in the period just after Appetite was released and allowed Axl to monopolise control of the band, and for his ego to increase exponetially.

Slash at this time was just recovering from his daliance with "MrBrownstone", Duff was still smashed and Steven Adler became Steven "cocaine adled" Adler and the downfall was commencing not long after the meteoric rise had begun.

GNR were in downfall a lot longer than they were at their peak. It is a shame really as they should have been the band that maintained Rock/Metal's superiority throughout the 90s but they took their eye off the ball and allowed Grunge to plunge the world into the Rock N Roll wastelands for about ten years.

No offence to grunge, their were a lot of good bands that came out of it but I want my rock stars to be larger than life, not shy and retiring sensitive types.

GNR could have filled this void for many a year had they been able to sustain the high energy aggression and punk filled angst of their debut. Such is life but thats what happened.

Ps I also think that had Duff went into recovery earlier he could have maintained the punk edge that GNR had, as he was the route of it

[m00p]

Actually Adler was fired from the band for the drug use. Slash goes into this in his auto-biography and talks about how that never really sat well with him to fire Steve. He felt everyone , except Axl oddly enough, was overdoing it with drugs and it was hypocritical of them to fire him for something they were all doing. From reading Slash's book and several others it seems Axl was the only one to not have a drug habit in the band, strange.

The speech impediment comes from the stroke he suffered that was brought about by his addictions.


lol yeah, thats what I meant. He was fired for drug addictions, and he tried out for AC/DC. He didn't get the job when they found out he was fired because of drug related reasons. He's still a good guy, and hes got the same smile. Hes just kind of handicapped now.

[AxlVanHagar]

Hammer meets nail in perfect harmony!

Couldnt have put that better myself mate. I would add however that given most of the songs included on the Illusion albums were written during the Appetite period do you think that different production would have improved that album any?

I think that there are many good tracks on Illusion but the production is souless and takes away from the dynamic aggression that was so purely refined in appetite.

So my question to you is this. Had the Illusion Albums been recorded by Mike Clink by an angry band with nothing to lose on the breadline would it have been more popular?

Nope. No matter who produced the Illusion albums the end result would have been the same. By that time it was the Axl Show and he was going to get his way and the band would do what he said no matter what. Everyone except Axl was totally strung out on smack, coke and booze.

AGain I'll reference Slash's book as well Axl's bio and several magazines I have lying around. Axl's personality was too strong to stand up to at this point for the band and they all found it easier to just give in to his will. Factor in the rest of the band , excpet Matt Sorum, were actually slightly afraid of Axl and his temper it doesn't matter who wrote or produced what for those albums. Matt was the only guy that was willing to stand up to him but the band would always take Matt aside to calm him down lest Axl get too angry. Axl wanted to take the band in a different direction and he did. He wanted GnR to better refelect his influences of Queen and Elton John. A more progressive epic approach to the songs. All this is how Axl wound getting everyone to sign away their legal right to the name Guns n' Roses. He came close to getting the rights to the songs as well but Slash and Duff had cleaned up by that point and didn't sign off on that. Hence why Axl re-recorded Appetite with the new Gn'R. Now if a song turns up in a movie or tv show or whatever Axl can give the new version over and avoid royalty fees to Slash and Duff.

And as to the songs being written way back in the Appetite era, this is true however the songs really aren't all that different to what wound up on the Illusion albums other than some of the arrangements and some editing. Somewhere in my storage closet is a Vinyl bootleg of an old club show during the Appetite era. I think before the album had come out. November Rain is on there and it's about 4 or 5 minutes minutes long! :eek: The piano bits are played out on guitar but other than that it's essentially the same song. There's another version out there from the same era that clocks in at 17 minutes!:eek: When I saw them in a club before anyone knew who they were they played Don't Cry and again really not that different from what wound up on the Illusion album.

Suffice to say the band that created Appetite For Destruction ceased to exist by the time they headed in the studio to record the Illusion albums. The band reminds me of an old adage and one of my lines from the movie BladeRunner, "The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long." And Guns n' Roses burned ever so bright my friends.

[Sikkinixx6]

Nope. No matter who produced the Illusion albums the end result would have been the same. By that time it was the Axl Show and he was going to get his way and the band would do what he said no matter what. Everyone except Axl was totally strung out on smack, coke and booze.

AGain I'll reference Slash's book as well Axl's bio and several magazines I have lying around. Axl's personality was too strong to stand up to at this point for the band and they all found it easier to just give in to his will. Factor in the rest of the band , excpet Matt Sorum, were actually slightly afraid of Axl and his temper it doesn't matter who wrote or produced what for those albums. Matt was the only guy that was willing to stand up to him but the band would always take Matt aside to calm him down lest Axl get too angry. Axl wanted to take the band in a different direction and he did. He wanted GnR to better refelect his influences of Queen and Elton John. A more progressive epic approach to the songs. All this is how Axl wound getting everyone to sign away their legal right to the name Guns n' Roses. He came close to getting the rights to the songs as well but Slash and Duff had cleaned up by that point and didn't sign off on that. Hence why Axl re-recorded Appetite with the new Gn'R. Now if a song turns up in a movie or tv show or whatever Axl can give the new version over and avoid royalty fees to Slash and Duff.

And as to the songs being written way back in the Appetite era, this is true however the songs really aren't all that different to what wound up on the Illusion albums other than some of the arrangements and some editing. Somewhere in my storage closet is a Vinyl bootleg of an old club show during the Appetite era. I think before the album had come out. November Rain is on there and it's about 4 or 5 minutes minutes long! :eek: The piano bits are played out on guitar but other than that it's essentially the same song. There's another version out there from the same era that clocks in at 17 minutes!:eek: When I saw them in a club before anyone knew who they were they played Don't Cry and again really not that different from what wound up on the Illusion album.

Suffice to say the band that created Appetite For Destruction ceased to exist by the time they headed in the studio to record the Illusion albums. The band reminds me of an old adage and one of my lines from the movie BladeRunner, "The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long." And Guns n' Roses burned ever so bright my friends.

HI AVH

Thanks for the reply, maybe I should reword the question for clarity, would the illusion albums be better albums if they were recorded at the start of their careers, i.e. before Axl lost the plot?

[Kelvis]

HI AVH

Thanks for the reply, maybe I should reword the question for clarity, would the illusion albums be better albums if they were recorded at the start of their careers, i.e. before Axl lost the plot?

That was what I thought you meant buddy. I'll come back after I read the Anthony Bozza 'Slash' book - you guys are too knowledgable about this subject at the moment! ;P

[AxlVanHagar]

HI AVH

Thanks for the reply, maybe I should reword the question for clarity, would the illusion albums be better albums if they were recorded at the start of their careers, i.e. before Axl lost the plot?


Possibly. Axl would argue that he lost the plot with Appetite as it's so raw. But again I stress that the songs on the Illusion albums written back in the Appetite era really aren't all that different from the original incarnations of them. The reason things like Don't Cry and November Rain didn't wind up on Appeteite were that the band didn't want to do them, only Axl did. Axl always wanted to go the route of the epic grandois rock song much like his two heroes Freddie Mercury and Elton John. That being said had they done the Illusion albums first I'm sure they would sound much more raw and less polished than what they do now but other than that I think they most likely would soud pretty similair.

[Sikkinixx6]

Possibly. Axl would argue that he lost the plot with Appetite as it's so raw. But again I stress that the songs on the Illusion albums written back in the Appetite era really aren't all that different from the original incarnations of them. The reason things like Don't Cry and November Rain didn't wind up on Appeteite were that the band didn't want to do them, only Axl did. Axl always wanted to go the route of the epic grandois rock song much like his two heroes Freddie Mercury and Elton John. That being said had they done the Illusion albums first I'm sure they would sound much more raw and less polished than what they do now but other than that I think they most likely would soud pretty similair.


Yes so far as arrangement etc the tracks are pretty much the same, but would that album have been better received by the fan base had it been their first album?

Further to that had appetite came out second, after the band had imploded would it have been as well received and critically acclaimed?

I think that the artists situation at the time of recording can at times be just as important as the quality of the songs themselves. I stand by the arguement that Appetite was a great album not only due to it having some great tracks on it but also that the desperation and hunger of the artists comes across in every note.

[AxlVanHagar]

Yes so far as arrangement etc the tracks are pretty much the same, but would that album have been better received by the fan base had it been their first album?

Further to that had appetite came out second, after the band had imploded would it have been as well received and critically acclaimed?

I think that the artists situation at the time of recording can at times be just as important as the quality of the songs themselves. I stand by the arguement that Appetite was a great album not only due to it having some great tracks on it but also that the desperation and hunger of the artists comes across in every note.


Yea. Appetite is one of those rare albums that every band wants to have but so few attain. They managed to catch lightining in a bottle in that record.

[sidman69]

i think the band died after the UYI tour ended, most of the spaghtti incident was recorded during the UYI days and was gonna be originally released with UYI but was held back and a few more songs were recorded. The band was so fractured in 1994 that Axl only communicated through slash with that snake of a manger Doug Goldstein and then slash went and did Snakepit during 1995. When Slash came back to begin recording the new album Axl would rarely show up (what's new) and I don't blame slash for leaving, amazing he put up with so much bs from axl and yet people still think a reunion could happen. I doubt it will ever happen, unfortunetely.

[Rockbandfan23467]

Yea. Appetite is one of those rare albums that every band wants to have but so few attain. They managed to catch lightining in a bottle in that record.

Yeah. Like you once said, it's the album Aerosmith could have made, but didn't.