How can this happen? (legally)

[JimDynamo]

GH:WT question and rant...
Does anyone have real info on how Activision can release the same game as Harmonix? I mean, I understand companies have copied ideas, etc. for years, but copying a concept and reproducing every feature in a game are different things. I know Harmonix kept rights to guitar controllers and music charts, etc. when they sold the Rock Band franchise, but aren't there patents or something that keep a developer from making (for all intents and purposes) the exact same thing that Harmonix created?

(p.s. If GH:WT is the same as RB, I will enjoy it. I'm just wondering how it can be legal)

[Roton7]

How can off-brand snack food companies make food items that are so strikingly similar to Little Debbie snacks, that you don't even know the difference?

[Julio_Strikes_Back]

They aren't making the exact same thing.

And it's not copying, it's competition. By your logic Coca-Cola should've sued Pepsi for making a cola that tastes similar.

[toMsons1987]

They aren't making the exact same thing.
Don't kid yourself, it's the cheap version of Rock Band. It's cheap, but the cheap same version with music 10 people listen too.

[Julio_Strikes_Back]

Don't kid yourself, it's the cheap version of Rock Band. It's cheap, but the cheap same version with music 10 people listen too.

Okie dokie lord of everything, let's break it down for your peanut-sized brain.

First off, does Rock Band have Guitar Hero characters?
Do Rock Band's drums have cymbals?
Does Rock Band have a song creator?
Does Rock Band have all master tracks in the original setlist?

They are not ripping off Rock Band. They are trying to compete with Rock Band and one-up them. Rock Band was a better game than GH3, so Neversoft are trying to make a better game. You know, that stuff may or may not happen when trying to make money.

[JimDynamo]

I'm sure if Coke had the legal right to do it, they'd have sued Pepsi into oblivion.

Copying in itself isn't illegal, I know that, but these days companies patent their original ideas so they have legal protection. I'm just wondering how it all works. Perhaps Harmonix makes a little money from GH:WT, maybe they both pay for the rights to use drums, mics, etc. to some other company. I wish I could find out for sure.

[Magnet]

For what it's worth, I'm sure the core gameplay in GH will differ from RB in several ways. The concept of the game is not something you can monopolize by claiming rights to it.

[MSG__]

if thats the case, before Madden bought the rights to the NFL, the ESPN was copying EA? People been making music since who knows when, its copyright now because another game is making another music game with copies of instruments that have exsisted <sp> for years?

does that above even make since? LOL im tired

[SilentCricket]

They aren't making the exact same thing.

And it's not copying, it's competition. By your logic Coca-Cola should've sued Pepsi for making a cola that tastes similar.


because they werent the same thing, coca-cola had cocaine in it and pepsi had PCP in it, 2 very different drugs.



:p

[monkeyfish]

GH:WT question and rant...
Does anyone have real info on how Activision can release the same game as Harmonix? I mean, I understand companies have copied ideas, etc. for years, but copying a concept and reproducing every feature in a game are different things. I know Harmonix kept rights to guitar controllers and music charts, etc. when they sold the Rock Band franchise, but aren't there patents or something that keep a developer from making (for all intents and purposes) the exact same thing that Harmonix created?

(p.s. If GH:WT is the same as RB, I will enjoy it. I'm just wondering how it can be legal)

Using your logic, the Guitar Hero franchise shouldn't exist because Fender technically had a patent for a "virtual concert apparatus." It was a dead idea, with no chance whatsoever of being made use of, but they had the patent which is all that matters, right?

[zurgrock]

They aren't making the exact same thing.

And it's not copying, it's competition. By your logic Coca-Cola should've sued Pepsi for making a cola that tastes similar.


but pepsi tastes better...

[Julio_Strikes_Back]

but pepsi tastes better...

Vanilla Coke is my favorite, but Pepsi is still tasty.

[onduvalst]

Competition is good. It leads to a better gaming experience for everyone.

[xerichx07]

Komani thought of the idea first, Harmonix put this game out before they decided to.

You fail, anyways.

[rockdawg-1965]

but pepsi tastes better...

Philistine!

[BStu78]

"Competition" isn't exactly a time-honored legal justification. Indeed, the courts and legislatures have rapidly moved to eliminate competition in recent decades. And before the anti-trust movement, competition was generally frowned upon then. You don't just get to copy someone in the name of competition. You can copy someone if what they did that you copied was something that they cannot get trademark or patent protection for. For the most part, gameplay mechanics cannot be patented. Even if they could be, its unlikely Harmonix could patent these gameplay mechanics because they were copying other sources to begin with.

Legal or not, I would be disappointed to see more patents in general. Too many sham patents have already been issued for "business practices" that represent little more than a fairly obvious idea but which are used to stifle invention and innovation. But for now, "competition" is no defense from a properly issued patent, irregardless of whether that patent should have been issued.

[murfinator]

I'm sure if Coke had the legal right to do it, they'd have sued Pepsi into oblivion.

HaHa, Sue the Mormons into oblivion...







...I kid, I kid!:)

[JimDynamo]

BStu78 pretty much nailed it. Because there are so many B.S. patents out there, I figured there would be some legal ramifications for GH:WT.
People get really defensive on the internets, but really any business that produces a consumer product - be it soft drinks, snack foods, video games or what have you - work hard to protect their innovations. There are a boatload of patents at play in the music/rhythm video game genre and the owners of those patents must be cashing in. I'm just curious as to who owns what. Maybe Konami's making $ on every one of these titles.
As a consumer, I embrace competition - more options for me - but it seems that either someone gets a chunk of all of these games or they missed out on a massive opportunity to do so.

[Chknfngers]

The same way Microsoft and Sony can have the same controllers.... Same way Lays and Jays can produced.

Fortunately, as of right now, Wii Owners will be getting a delightful treat of all the features promised in GH:WT that should have been in RB and then some whipped cream on top. So the Rock Band Wii will be different from GH:WT because everytime i come on these forums theres someon thrasing how different RB Wii is from RB X360/PS3. Even though they're the same game.

[JimDynamo]

yeah, you'd think people would expect systems with completely different capabilities to behave at least a little differently from one another.

[weisguy119]

If copying a concept was illegal in America, we'd all be driving Fords (gasp).

[jrinck]

You can copy functionality, just so long as you don't directly copy any of the technology that went into it.

[Frederf]

Don't kid yourself, it's the cheap version of Rock Band. It's cheap, but the cheap same version with music 10 people listen too.

As far as I've read the GH:WT game has a few aspects that are significantly unique, mostly I'm thinking of the user content creation stuff. And no, you can't just copyright a type of game. It would take GH:WT using actual lines of code or directly ripping off designs to the instruments or software (from RB) to justify any legal "IP theft."

All this is is some friendly business competition. It's a good thing and it will keep both companies motivated to providing a better product. New smart ideas will arise and all that. I don't understand this threatened feeling about GH:WT; if it's going to be crap, then what's to worry about? If it's good then great.

[Apples]

I recall reading somewhere that GH3 pays royalties based on a software patent owned by Harmonix. I'm sure that's a piece of it.

[mercuryshadow09]

How can all cars have four tires? ARE YOU ON DRUGS?