Oh Wtf Hmx Silver?

[Wertty]

What Were You Thinking.
Do You Realize The Sheer Difficulty Of The Drums In That Song.
I Like To Keep My Drumset In One Piece Thanks.
There's No Way A Real Drummer Thought That Song Up.
With Intent To Play It Anyways.
Holy Omg.
Does Their Drummer Believe In God?
Obviously Not If He Could Make This Monster Of A Song That Would One Day Be Able To Be Played On Your Game.
Honestly, I'm Contemplating If There Even is A God Now, Seeing As How He Wouldn't Allow This To Happen, Because Not Even He Could Pass It.
What Kind Of Sick Joke Is This Harmonix.

[Der_Lex]

Starting Every Word With A Capital Letter Is Like Cruise Control For Awesome.

[Wertty]

Starting Every Word With A Capital Letter Is Like Cruise Control For Awesome.

THANKS, I'M GLAD SOMEONE ELSE THINKS THE WAY I DO WHEN IT COMES TO CAPITALIZATION.

[XeRo133]

Uh.... LoL?

[Wertty]

Uh.... LoL?

That's right.

[Fee]

http://www.feebonics.org/uploader/files/1/beatthis.jpg

i know that song is rough, look at my score on easy :(

[PacoL250]

http://www.feebonics.org/uploader/files/1/beatthis.jpg

i know that song is rough, look at my score on easy :(

Epic. Win. :D:D

[Jixzer]

http://www.feebonics.org/uploader/files/1/beatthis.jpg

i know that song is rough, look at my score on easy :(

That song came straight from the "Drumming for Dummies" manual.

[XeRo133]

I'm Not Going To Look At It But Is Your Score 0?

[Jixzer]

I'm Not Going To Look At It But Is Your Score 0?

DING DING DING!!!

[Fee]

I'm Not Going To Look At It But Is Your Score 0?

yep. with 0% and with 0 note streak

[XeRo133]

Dude I Got A PS3 And I Got The Same Score... And The Song Isn't Even Out For Me

[Fee]

Dude I Got A PS3 And I Got The Same Score... And The Song Isn't Even Out For Me

lol, my friend is such a noob drummer, he got -1 on it and had to give Rock band $30

[instantdeath999]

http://www.feebonics.org/uploader/files/1/beatthis.jpg

i know that song is rough, look at my score on easy :(

I'm going to assume that after you beat it, you threw your drum sticks across the room and yelled "I got blisters on my fingers!"? Because that's what I would have done.

[XeRo133]

lol, my friend is such a noob drummer, he got -1 on it and had to give Rock band $30

HAHAHAHA Nice

[Wertty]

Lolol @ that score.
It's understandable, of course. =[
That song wasn't made with normal people in mind, apparently.
And this just proves it.

[RockBandRocker]

The song is missing bass kicks.

If you listen to the song, there is actually more bass drums.

The chart should be: kick -> kick -> Y + G + kick

You should be kicking more frequently.

Perhaps HMX should patch/update the chart to make it a little bit more fun for drummers.

[OakTea]

It does sound like it's missing bass kicks...
[/serious]

Man, it was too much already. I'm glad they didn't chart the double bass like in all the other songs.

[RockBandRocker]

^ Yeah, but the extra bass kicks might make the song

1) More fun to play for "experts"
2) Gold Starable without having to "squeeze"

I think that they should fix the chart considering the number of threads this has brought up. :)

[XeRo133]

and i think i've posted in every single one of those threads lol

[CCDaDon]

The song is missing bass kicks.

If you listen to the song, there is actually more bass drums.

The chart should be: kick -> kick -> Y + G + kick

You should be kicking more frequently.

Perhaps HMX should patch/update the chart to make it a little bit more fun for drummers.

I actually thought that too but i listened closely and came to the conclusion that its actually the guitar that does that sound(Rythm guitar to be exact)

[AeroZeppelinSevenfold]

http://www.feebonics.org/uploader/files/1/beatthis.jpg

i know that song is rough, look at my score on easy :(

you mean there isn't even enough notes to make you fail? oh wait, i mean, I HSTE THIS SONG IT BROKE MY BASS PEDAL! NOW I NEED A NEW DRUMSET!!!!!!!!!;)

[noobert]

this thread is full of epic win

[Tom Imp]

I love the added comments in this video. I was laughing through the whole thing.

Silver on Bass and Drums (Expert) (http://youtube.com/watch?v=5mTCDNvyHM4)

[HMXDungHeaver]

The first song that a dead person could pass on easy.

[litaljohn]

wow OP this thread sounds like most of my jokes....which means its terrible

[JoshuaB81285]

lol, my friend is such a noob drummer, he got -1 on it and had to give Rock band $30

LOL IRL!!!!! That was one of the funniest things I've ever read on this forum. Kudos sir.

[SmokaCola]

Sadly enough... I'm the only one in the world who likes this song, listening to it anyway. I haven't bought it as DLC yet, no moneyz.

[quinaking]

Sadly enough... I'm the only one in the world who likes this song, listening to it anyway. I haven't bought it as DLC yet, no moneyz.

I like the song too :/.

[afterstasis]

it's a great song, just not well-suited for rock band due to the minimal drumming and bass. but i'm glad they included it with the album because it's an important part of doolittle.

[dada limbo]

you mean there isn't even enough notes to make you fail? oh wait, i mean, I HSTE THIS SONG IT BROKE MY BASS PEDAL! NOW I NEED A NEW DRUMSET!!!!!!!!!;)

You joke.

Mine broke.





I swears, I couldn't stop laughing. It survived "Cherub Rock" and "Siva", but the damn thing finally cracked on what? "Drumming for ******s".

[chico76]

I love the added comments in this video. I was laughing through the whole thing.

Silver on Bass and Drums (Expert) (http://youtube.com/watch?v=5mTCDNvyHM4)


Yeah, the comments are great. "wtf, is that a dying cat?" :)

I'm wondering... why was the Bassist only a "Steady Eddie" and not a "Flawless"... I never understand those little monikers after the song is over. I remember playing a song once, I saved all 3 of my band mates at least once, one of them twice... but because I got a Perfect Solo, I ended up as a "Solo Legend" rather than a "Band Savior". Go figure... the one that actually mattered the most was not the one they chose to put up there...

[yelladog32]

http://www.feebonics.org/uploader/files/1/beatthis.jpg

i know that song is rough, look at my score on easy :(


...and you still managed a star!

[hmxsean]

THANKS, I'M GLAD SOMEONE ELSE THINKS THE WAY I DO WHEN IT COMES TO CAPITALIZATION.

I am still confused when and how this became a thing. I am hoping this never catches on. When people write like this I stop after one sentence.

[chico76]

I am still confused when and how this became a thing. I am hoping this never catches on. When people write like this I stop after one sentence.


I'm confused too... a Dev makes an appearance in a thread with a legitimate gripe... but instead of responding to the OP, responds to someone about the way that people type their posts???

Sean... is there a response forthcoming about why "Silver" was programmed the way it was? That you can just turn on the Expert Drums and let it go and you won't fail out? That a 0 score doesn't show up on the Career Song List, but a star does show (even though no stars were earned)?

We all know it's just one song, but it seems like it's a glaring oversight to allow this situation on ANY song...

[Tom Imp]

Out of curiosity, how much did they charge for this song alone? If it's the regular $1.99 (I don't know XBox pricing as I'm a PS3 owner), then that is a crime.

[jdrager]

I'm going to assume that after you beat it, you threw your drum sticks across the room and yelled "I got blisters on my fingers!"? Because that's what I would have done.

super lollerz for helter skelter/ringo


Starting Every Word With A Capital Letter Is Like Cruise Control For Awesome.

also awesome

[Nobak]

I'm confused too... a Dev makes an appearance in a thread with a legitimate gripe... but instead of responding to the OP, responds to someone about the way that people type their posts???

Sean... is there a response forthcoming about why "Silver" was programmed the way it was? That you can just turn on the Expert Drums and let it go and you won't fail out? That a 0 score doesn't show up on the Career Song List, but a star does show (even though no stars were earned)?

We all know it's just one song, but it seems like it's a glaring oversight to allow this situation on ANY song...

They don't program songs. They chart them and feed them to the game engine. They can't just change the mechanics of the game because one song has a really small amount of notes.

Besides, you can't even pass it on medium if you don't play.

[Jaacar]

I'm pretty sure you got 1 star because you technically "passed" the song, which would lead me to believe that the lowest number of stars possible in any given song yet still pass it would be 1.

That being said, how about some of those expert players video themselves getting the lowest scores possible on a career (ie. 1 star everything). That would be an amusing set of videos.

[Goatman...]

I wonder if I could beat this in BWT playing all 4 instruments myself.

[chico76]

They don't program songs. They chart them and feed them to the game engine. They can't just change the mechanics of the game because one song has a really small amount of notes.

Besides, you can't even pass it on medium if you don't play.



I'm talking about why they didn't make sure that not playing ANY notes at all will not fail someone out. I know they can't add in notes that aren't there. The song is short and not complex. I get that. But why doesn't the Rock Meter fall more with the missed notes?

If you turn the song on Expert Drums and just let it go, you'll make it to the end with 0 points, the game will award you 1 star, and your Rock meter will be just above the bottom failing point... try it...

[Jaacar]

If you turn the song on Expert Drums and just let it go, you'll make it to the end with 0 points, the game will award you 1 star, and your Rock meter will be just above the bottom failing point... try it...

I was under the impression this worked on Easy but nothing else. If you fail it on Medium without hitting any notes, I'm pretty sure you'll fail out on Hard and Expert as well.

I could be wrong, but I'm sure I read it was only Easy you could 'not fail' this song on by not playing. And for the record if you sit down and play it (even on easy) and just go all crazy on the drums (hitting notes that aren't there), you can fail out.

[chico76]

I was under the impression this worked on Easy but nothing else. If you fail it on Medium without hitting any notes, I'm pretty sure you'll fail out on Hard and Expert as well.

I could be wrong, but I'm sure I read it was only Easy you could 'not fail' this song on by not playing. And for the record if you sit down and play it (even on easy) and just go all crazy on the drums (hitting notes that aren't there), you can fail out.


The video I saw on YouTube claimed to be Expert... I haven't tried it myself yet... so, I apologize in advance if I'm quoting someone incorrectly...

Even if it is only on Easy... it still seems like a glaring oversight to allow any song on any level to be "completed" without playing a single note...

[afterstasis]

The video I saw on YouTube claimed to be Expert... I haven't tried it myself yet... so, I apologize in advance if I'm quoting someone incorrectly...

Even if it is only on Easy... it still seems like a glaring oversight to allow any song on any level to be "completed" without playing a single note...

who really cares? how does this affect the game or the other 200+ songs and situations where someone would walk away from the drums in the middle of a song in any negative way?

[Jaacar]

Even if it is only on Easy... it still seems like a glaring oversight to allow any song on any level to be "completed" without playing a single note...

While this sounds like it should be true, I can't imagine in their wildest dreams that they even though a song like this would ever exist, let alone think to count just how many notes you had to miss in a row to 'fail' a song on easy. Oversight, yes. Glaring, probably not even imagined before someone did it.

[chico76]

who really cares? how does this affect the game or the other 200+ songs and situations where someone would walk away from the drums in the middle of a song in any negative way?


It's an example of bad QA. If they can let a song get through that allows a person to pass without playing a single note, how can anyone trust that other parts of the game are being properly tested?

Everyone is already asking if they did any testing on the drums & guitars that were shipped. We know that is more of an EA issue than a HMX issue, but it's still an overall point about quality assurance. It means things aren't being fully checked out ahead of time...


While this sounds like it should be true, I can't imagine in their wildest dreams that they even though a song like this would ever exist, let alone think to count just how many notes you had to miss in a row to 'fail' a song on easy. Oversight, yes. Glaring, probably not even imagined before someone did it.

Well, if I were running a QA department, I'd test every conceivable aspect of my product before I certified it.

But, forget "conceivable" in this case. Does nobody at HMX play the songs on each difficulty for each instrument before sending it to the final QA people?

[afterstasis]

It's an example of bad QA. If they can let a song get through that allows a person to pass without playing a single note, how can anyone trust that other parts of the game are being properly tested?

Everyone is already asking if they did any testing on the drums & guitars that were shipped. We know that is more of an EA issue than a HMX issue, but it's still an overall point about quality assurance. It means things aren't being fully checked out ahead of time...

i don't think it's important in the least. at this point we know what kind of quality to expect. for what i'm sure is a relatively small crew we're getting well-priced weekly DLC in larger and larger quantities as time passes. true, there are a few kinks here and there (i think the songs which are impossible to gold star are more of a concern) but nothing terrible. we know that the instruments aren't very reliable. i've been through a guitar and a drumset myself. how does this one song have anything to do with the rest of this? maybe they didn't really care if an empty drum-throne would fail on easy. i don't imagine that they felt it was even worth fixing even if they did notice it. it's silly to worry about that sort of thing.

[chico76]

i don't think it's important in the least. at this point we know what kind of quality to expect. for what i'm sure is a relatively small crew we're getting well-priced weekly DLC in larger and larger quantities as time passes. true, there are a few kinks here and there (i think the songs which are impossible to gold star are more of a concern) but nothing terrible. we know that the instruments aren't very reliable. i've been through a guitar and a drumset myself. how does this one song have anything to do with the rest of this? maybe they didn't really care if an empty drum-throne would fail on easy. i don't imagine that they felt it was even worth fixing even if they did notice it. it's silly to worry about that sort of thing.



I agree on songs that are apparently impossible to Gold Star. It surely would have been simple to fix. They have to have some kind of algorithm they run on a song file to "test" for the maximum possible score. Then you make sure that your formula for "Gold Star Score" is below that maximum.

Same kind of thing for completing a song. Have a formula that tests how many notes there are in the song and whether or not the Rock Meter drops enough for the person to fail out by missing x-number of notes in a row.

But as I said, this speaks to a larger problem overall. Things aren't being tested properly. They are apparently in such a rush to get us quantity that they are letting the quality suffer.

If we don't "scream" at them over these issues, then they "get away with it" and there's no incentive to fix the problem... having the attitude of "it isn't that big a deal" is exactly why they are able to get away with in the first place...

[afterstasis]

I agree on songs that are apparently impossible to Gold Star. It surely would have been simple to fix. They have to have some kind of algorithm they run on a song file to "test" for the maximum possible score. Then you make sure that your formula for "Gold Star Score" is below that maximum.

Same kind of thing for completing a song. Have a formula that tests how many notes there are in the song and whether or not the Rock Meter drops enough for the person to fail out by missing x-number of notes in a row.

But as I said, this speaks to a larger problem overall. Things aren't being tested properly. They are apparently in such a rush to get us quantity that they are letting the quality suffer.

If we don't "scream" at them over these issues, then they "get away with it" and there's no incentive to fix the problem... having the attitude of "it isn't that big a deal" is exactly why they are able to get away with in the first place...

but that's it. i don't really care about either issue. gold stars and unfailable songs aren't important to me. i expect good tunes and charts to play, not bizarre scenarios that aren't related to normal play... hell, they could have kept it there to see if anyone would notice or for those people that really want to play a 4-person band but none of them are worth a damn on the drums.

[R4di4ti0n]

If we don't "scream" at them over these issues, then they "get away with it" and there's no incentive to fix the problem... having the attitude of "it isn't that big a deal" is exactly why they are able to get away with in the first place...

Good point, unless you count the fact that, hey, it really doesnt matter.

[chico76]

but that's it. i don't really care about either issue. gold stars and unfailable songs aren't important to me. i expect good tunes and charts to play, not bizarre scenarios that aren't related to normal play... hell, they could have kept it there to see if anyone would notice or for those people that really want to play a 4-person band but none of them are worth a damn on the drums.


I do understand what you're saying... however...

"bizarre scenarios that aren't related to normal play..." Are you serious? Gold Stars are a part of "normal play". You play a song on Expert... you pull off a 100%... but you don't get Gold Stars? Kind of disappointing...

I ask you again though... think outside the box for a minute... if they didn't properly test "Silver"... how do we know that there aren't other songs that are "unfailable"? What's the point of having to play at all if there are full songs, or even sections of songs, that can simply be skipped and completed? Would have saved me a lot of time if I didn't have to play section 2H of GG&HT...



Good point, unless you count the fact that, hey, it really doesnt matter.


So... what you're saying is... "it's okay, let it go, HMX can give us untested products, it really doesn't matter that you PAID for it"...

[Wertty]

I doubt they were thinking " Hm, there may be a song without enough notes to fail on it on easy, and some people might take their curious minds and find it. So we'd better base this life bar around a scenario like that MAYBE happening."
If anything I think it's funny. It's like a little easter egg almost.
What other song can you say you can beat without even playing one note?
I seriously doubt that this being an "issue" equates to the drums and guitar being crappy.
It's just the games engine and I doubt they could have foreseen it coming.

[hmxhenry]

The video I saw on YouTube claimed to be Expert... I haven't tried it myself yet... so, I apologize in advance if I'm quoting someone incorrectly...

This is entirely false. I just went down and spoke with several members of our QA department, and ran through Silver on each level of difficult. You will fail out on Medium, Hard, and Expert without playing any notes. We are, as always, more than happy to field criticism and critiques of our game play provided that they are not imaginary complaints.


It's an example of bad QA. If they can let a song get through that allows a person to pass without playing a single note, how can anyone trust that other parts of the game are being properly tested?


Passing Silver on Easy (barely) without hitting any notes is not an example of bad QA. It's not a bug. It's simply the way our scoring engine is set up. There just aren't enough notes in Silver on Easy to fail out according to the metrics of our scoring engine. It wasn't feasible for us to change the entire scoring engine to accommodate this one song, and we're not going to deliberately over chart the song or cut it from the album to avoid it.

It's just the way this song works. Suggesting that it's indicative of lazy testing is insulting to the people that work hard to make sure you have enjoyable songs to play. Silver is clearly the exception and not the rule.

[afterstasis]

I do understand what you're saying... however...

"bizarre scenarios that aren't related to normal play..." Are you serious? Gold Stars are a part of "normal play". You play a song on Expert... you pull off a 100%... but you don't get Gold Stars? Kind of disappointing...

I ask you again though... think outside the box for a minute... if they didn't properly test "Silver"... how do we know that there aren't other songs that are "unfailable"? What's the point of having to play at all if there are full songs, or even sections of songs, that can simply be skipped and completed? Would have saved me a lot of time if I didn't have to play section 2H of GG&HT...

So... what you're saying is... "it's okay, let it go, HMX can give us untested products, it really doesn't matter that you PAID for it"...

"bizarre scenarios" is obviously a reference to walking away from the drums as the track starts. i've had the game since launch and have yet to fire up a song and then walk away to see if i'll fail or not. maybe we just have VERY different play styles. good luck with yours.

i don't care if every song in the game is unfailable if no notes are struck... hell, maybe that's the perfect response to guitar hero 4's "novice" mode or whatever. you can just hit the drums freely on a "novice" mode and it'll use the drum fill sounds and you can keep proper beat or just wail with no worry of failing. i'd be fine with it. i play on expert and i play what i see on the screen. so far it's working out really well for me... i don't worry about some dude across the planet letting the game run while he watches in anticipation of whether the game will fail him out or not.

if the song is messed up, that sucks. there have a few small charting problems and some songs are not able to be gold-starred. minor bummers, but in my 27 years of life i have yet to see a completely perfect video game and i have also yet to let that run me away.

[R4di4ti0n]

I do understand what you're saying... however...

"bizarre scenarios that aren't related to normal play..." Are you serious? Gold Stars are a part of "normal play". You play a song on Expert... you pull off a 100%... but you don't get Gold Stars? Kind of disappointing...

I ask you again though... think outside the box for a minute... if they didn't properly test "Silver"... how do we know that there aren't other songs that are "unfailable"? What's the point of having to play at all if there are full songs, or even sections of songs, that can simply be skipped and completed? Would have saved me a lot of time if I didn't have to play section 2H of GG&HT...





So... what you're saying is... "it's okay, let it go, HMX can give us untested products, it really doesn't matter that you PAID for it"...

Thats exactly what im saying. You paid for it, without reviewing it fully. The wonderful world of youtube allows us to do just that.

You wouldnt start a thread about how bad mcdolands was if they forgot your pickles, which is equally insignificant.

Meh, whatever. Just another kid with nothing better to do during summer break than rabble-rouse. Why dont you go outside or something...

[Derek]

"bizarre scenarios that aren't related to normal play..." Are you serious? Gold Stars are a part of "normal play". You play a song on Expert... you pull off a 100%... but you don't get Gold Stars? Kind of disappointing...

I ask you again though... think outside the box for a minute... if they didn't properly test "Silver"... how do we know that there aren't other songs that are "unfailable"? What's the point of having to play at all if there are full songs, or even sections of songs, that can simply be skipped and completed? Would have saved me a lot of time if I didn't have to play section 2H of GG&HT...

So... what you're saying is... "it's okay, let it go, HMX can give us untested products, it really doesn't matter that you PAID for it"...

Dude... take a deep breath. This is a rock & roll game. The only way you could ever test your stupid hypothesis is if you just sat there and refused to rock. That's not called "thinking outside the box" -- it's called being a huge dork.

[Nobak]

I'm talking about why they didn't make sure that not playing ANY notes at all will not fail someone out. I know they can't add in notes that aren't there. The song is short and not complex. I get that. But why doesn't the Rock Meter fall more with the missed notes?

If you turn the song on Expert Drums and just let it go, you'll make it to the end with 0 points, the game will award you 1 star, and your Rock meter will be just above the bottom failing point... try it...

I guess I wasn't obvious enough in my last reply about "changing game mechanics because of a song", so I sighed and thought up another, lengthier reply, but then Henry beat me to it.

Do you think I would just blindly make a statement and pretend I was sure of what I said? I booted up the game and watched my hamster fail the song on medium before I made my claim.

But why would it matter? I think a score of 0 points is pretty representative of how much you sucked on that play through, whether you passed or not.



As for gold stars... I think they could have done a better job with that algorithm, since right now some songs seem arbitrarily more forgiving than others when it comes to gold starring, and that's a legitimate issue.

I'm sure they could come up with a better algorithm (and if they release Rock Band 2, I believe they should) but you can't really insert that algorithm in the current game. It would cause scoring inconsistency with 5 star scores that should be gs and vice-versa.
It's a bit like the reason they can't fix front end drum squeezing.

[WhiffleBallTony]

Starting Every Word With A Capital Letter Is Like Cruise Control For Awesome.

The system automatically does that when someone types in all-caps, so, epic fail.

[DethBoxx]

Tempest in a teapot.

[chico76]

This is entirely false. I just went down and spoke with several members of our QA department, and ran through Silver on each level of difficult. You will fail out on Medium, Hard, and Expert without playing any notes. We are, as always, more than happy to field criticism and critiques of our game play provided that they are not imaginary complaints.

Thanks Henry. I do believe I put in an apology earlier in the thread if I was misquoting or misinterpreting what it was that I saw on YouTube. Thank you for the clarification.



Passing Silver on Easy (barely) without hitting any notes is not an example of bad QA. It's not a bug. It's simply the way our scoring engine is set up. There just aren't enough notes in Silver on Easy to fail out according to the metrics of our scoring engine. It wasn't feasible for us to change the entire scoring engine to accommodate this one song, and we're not going to deliberately over chart the song or cut it from the album to avoid it.

It's just the way this song works. Suggesting that it's indicative of lazy testing is insulting to the people that work hard to make sure you have enjoyable songs to play. Silver is clearly the exception and not the rule.


I'm surprised, to say the least, that your scoring engine wouldn't have some kind of fail-safe for ANY song, regardless of the number of notes, to account for a situation where someone plays zero notes for an entire song. You wouldn't have to change the entire scoring engine (you're asking me not to insult the HMX workers, please don't insult my intelligence; I've done my fair share of computer programming). You merely need to add a few lines of code that tells the scoring engine to fail a player if the "last note passes and the player's score is zero".

None of what I said has been meant to impugn the effort put into the process of charting or programming. I'm criticizing the QA testing. Surely someone brought it to the attention of the "powers that be" that a song has been encountered that needs no playing whatsoever to "pass"?

...

As for the rest of the replies between Henry's and this response... I've taken plenty of deep breaths. I'm sorry, but I have worked in industries where you simply cannot allow your tolerances to just disappear every once in a while. Songs that cannot be Gold-Starred, songs that can be "completed" without playing... what next? Do people really not care that a game is stable & consistent anymore?

I'm getting the feeling that I'm the only person in this thread (well, at least since it started and a few people seemed to be concerned about this issue) that cares that a song was released that has a very obvious bug in it. I know Henry said it's not a "bug", but I'm not sure what else you would call it when someone can "pass" a song without so much as playing even 1 note.

I'll leave it alone though, because I'm obviously in the minority... sorry to inconvenience everyone with my ideas of game stability & consistency... how crazy I must be...

[R4di4ti0n]

I'll leave it alone though, because I'm obviously in the minority... sorry to inconvenience everyone with my ideas of game stability & consistency... how crazy I must be...

Crazy...not so much. More...annoying? Yeah, kinda like a herpes outbreak just before you get ready to climb a mountain...just not cool.

[chico76]

As for gold stars... I think they could have done a better job with that algorithm, since right now some songs seem arbitrarily more forgiving than others when it comes to gold starring, and that's a legitimate issue.

I'm sure they could come up with a better algorithm (and if they release Rock Band 2, I believe they should) but you can't really insert that algorithm in the current game. It would cause scoring inconsistency with 5 star scores that should be gs and vice-versa.

It's a bit like the reason they can't fix front end drum squeezing.


Actually, I have to disagree here. What would stop them from implementing a fix on the songs that are currently "un-Gold-Star-able" that entails:

- As long as the player has reached the 5-Star threshold, then if they attain a 100% rating on the song, then Gold Stars are awarded.

You'd have no problems with any 5-Star / Gold Star inconsistencies.

I still think they simply need to fix their scoring sytem algorithm. There are so many ways they could have done it that would have been completely stable, completely simple, and would have completely avoided any of the issues we've talked about in this thread. One possible scenario:

Each song would have a maximum attainable score and the Stars would be awarded based on some percentage of score earned. For instance, when you reach 20% of the maximum, you get 1 Star... 30% gets 2 Stars... 45% gets 3 Stars... 60% gets 4 Stars... 75% gets 5 Stars... and 95% gets Gold Stars. Basic, simple, consistent. And... it's MUCH easier to program than having to worry about what tier a song is on, how many notes or chords there are, etc. This approach would also allow for a line of code that fails a player for a score of 0 after the last note passes. Or, beyond that, allows for an algorithm that fails a player if they are not advancing their score "fast enough compared to the maximum points earnable at any point of the song". So, if I should be earning 2,000 points per second during the song, but I'm only earning 100 points per second, than that's just not enough and my Rock Meter drops like a rock. After 10-15 seconds of such scoring, I fail. Something along those lines.

Thoughts?

[Electric_Zen]

chico76, if you let yourself get this worked up over something that doesn't affect you, your life is going to be a long string of disappointments. Take a break and relax.

[chico76]

chico76, if you let yourself get this worked up over something that doesn't affect you, your life is going to be a long string of disappointments. Take a break and relax.


Why does everyone keep telling me to relax? What makes you think I'm not completely relaxed?

Not getting Gold Stars on some songs affects my overall enjoyment of a game that I'd hoped would keep me hooked for a long time to come. Finding out that there are songs that have obvious bugs/glitches/flaws that allow you to just walk away from the controller while the song plays makes me wonder about the stability of the game in other areas.

I think everyone else isn't worked up enough. I can't believe that people are so complacent about issues such as these. Yes, the DLC is optional. But, if you do decide to pay for it, don't you want something that is stable & consistent? You're relaxed about giving HMX your money and not getting your "full money's worth"?

What is everyone going to be saying when a song gets released that we can't get 5 Stars on? What happens if they release a song where everyone missing the "Unison Bonus" causes an immediate full-band failure? "Oh well, they work hard to give us DLC, it's not that big a deal that they got my $2 but delivered something that doesn't work right."

I'll ask again... am I expecting too much by wanting a game to be stable, reliable, and consistent?

[tuck420]

Why does everyone keep telling me to relax? What makes you think I'm not completely relaxed?

Not getting Gold Stars on some songs affects my overall enjoyment of a game that I'd hoped would keep me hooked for a long time to come. Finding out that there are songs that have obvious bugs/glitches/flaws that allow you to just walk away from the controller while the song plays makes me wonder about the stability of the game in other areas.

I think everyone else isn't worked up enough. I can't believe that people are so complacent about issues such as these. Yes, the DLC is optional. But, if you do decide to pay for it, don't you want something that is stable & consistent? You're relaxed about giving HMX your money and not getting your "full money's worth"?

What is everyone going to be saying when a song gets released that we can't get 5 Stars on? What happens if they release a song where everyone missing the "Unison Bonus" causes an immediate full-band failure? "Oh well, they work hard to give us DLC, it's not that big a deal that they got my $2 but delivered something that doesn't work right."

I'll ask again... am I expecting too much by wanting a game to be stable, reliable, and consistent?

Or rather than focusing on the non-Gold Star-ness of it, you can look at it as HMX basically giving away the 100% expert drum achievement for the 360 version. I know for a lot of people, up until this song was released, that achievement was a fever dream with no hope of attainment. Bass, as well, from the sound of it.

Also, I'm actually a computer programmer myself, and what you asking HMX to do in rewritting their scoring engine for something like Silver is actually pretty ridiculous. I'm sure they probably have to have payback on the patches they release. Doing a re-write of their score engine, which would most likely take considerable time and resources, to appease a handful of people complaining about one or two songs does make for a good payback summary. This is generally how the software industry, and most industries by and large, work. For the most part, this game has been very stable, reliable and consistent. And HMX has taken steps to correct it when enough demand warrants changes, more so than a lot of studios would. I'm personally much more upset with the vocal inconsistencies discussed in another thread than with something like this. Even with those, HMX has recognized there's an issue and is hopefully taking steps to correct it.

Furthermore, unless you paid for Silver as a stand-alone track and not the album, then you could look at it as not having actually paid for the song anyway, if that would make you feel better. At the normal rate of $2 per song, and with 14 songs, by paying $19 for the album, you are getting 4.5 songs free. So if you feel yourself worked up about the maddeningly simple drum chart on this song, just think to yourself, "At least I didn't pay for it."

[Nobak]

Actually, I have to disagree here. What would stop them from implementing a fix on the songs that are currently "un-Gold-Star-able" that entails:

- As long as the player has reached the 5-Star threshold, then if they attain a 100% rating on the song, then Gold Stars are awarded.

You'd have no problems with any 5-Star / Gold Star inconsistencies.

I still think they simply need to fix their scoring sytem algorithm. There are so many ways they could have done it that would have been completely stable, completely simple, and would have completely avoided any of the issues we've talked about in this thread. One possible scenario:

Each song would have a maximum attainable score and the Stars would be awarded based on some percentage of score earned. For instance, when you reach 20% of the maximum, you get 1 Star... 30% gets 2 Stars... 45% gets 3 Stars... 60% gets 4 Stars... 75% gets 5 Stars... and 95% gets Gold Stars. Basic, simple, consistent. And... it's MUCH easier to program than having to worry about what tier a song is on, how many notes or chords there are, etc. This approach would also allow for a line of code that fails a player for a score of 0 after the last note passes. Or, beyond that, allows for an algorithm that fails a player if they are not advancing their score "fast enough compared to the maximum points earnable at any point of the song". So, if I should be earning 2,000 points per second during the song, but I'm only earning 100 points per second, than that's just not enough and my Rock Meter drops like a rock. After 10-15 seconds of such scoring, I fail. Something along those lines.

Thoughts?

Changing gold stars in such a way entirely changes the dynamic from being able to hold a combo (and use overdrive effectively) to just not missing many notes. It's not the same thing at all, and would also make all previously obtained star ratings obsolete, especially considering notes hit for a past run aren't seemingly stored anywhere.

I don't like the Full Combo idea especially for drums where you could then hoard overdrive to have less notes to hit without the current punishment (less points from the notes you don't hit and eventually from wasted overdrive).



Changing the rock meter algorithm would require testing for every song to make sure the game doesn't fail you out too quickly/not quickly enough on any given song. On top of wasting development time, forcing a patch, and lengthening the DLC creation process, it has a lot more potential to cause problems down the line.

What happens if they develop that, implement it, then 3 months down the line encounter a problem when trying to release some new single by the newest upstart band Hamsters & Toads? Develop another one, release another patch?

As for failing a player if he gets 0.... well then, you could hit the first kick note and walk away. 25 points...

You're suggesting they apply a fastidious and expensive process to deal with unplanned behavior which occurs in a very specific instance and has no repercussions on the game except maybe handing out a minimal amount of cash. I still don't see why it's an issue in the first place.

[l-o-t]

OH! I get it! I had to watch the video on Youtube first. I thought you were serious at first then I read other posts and was all "this is fishy". Yeah... I should buy that song.

[flop404]

I'm getting the feeling that I'm the only person in this thread (well, at least since it started and a few people seemed to be concerned about this issue) that cares that a song was released that has a very obvious bug in it. I know Henry said it's not a "bug", but I'm not sure what else you would call it when someone can "pass" a song without so much as playing even 1 note.


It's definitely not a bug (nor are the "ungoldstarable" songs).

The score is supposed to reflect audience appreciation -easy implies a forgiving audience, expert an extremely difficult one.

Now, since drums in Silver are very minimalist, it seems logical to me that a forgiving audience would tolerate listening to that song without the drums.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems to me that Rock Band lines up, as far as playability goes, is intended to be an "experience" game, not a performance game.
If they were going the "performance" route, then they'd have included some basic features like having high scores tables in the quickplay mode.

Also, to rant about a DLC (so, a bonus feature, not a requisite step in the career in any way) to allow in easy mode (which is aimed at casual/beginner players, players who are not looking for exploits in a game), to survive that song without playing (which is not the thing people aim for when they're playing) is quite incredible.

Come on. You pretended you had some notions about programmation, well, any programmer knows that every program leaves room to exploits.

This one is just the most useless, in a real-gaming situation, exploit ever.

If you want to criticize some defects in the game, that actually impede the game playing ability, look at the quite defective "talkies" parts in the vocal career. Or about the squeezing, which is also an exploit who has consequences on the leaderboards.

There you can talk about failures in beta testing.

Though, even then, since the game is designed to be a party/experience game, the fact that they did add the (even not perfectly) gold star system shows they did quite a lot.