why squares instead of circles?!

[zankfrappa]

I dont really understand why Harmonix decided on the use of squares as note markers rather than the circle used on Guitar Hero. The only reason i can think of is due to a copyright or something, but i cant really see red octane going "hey, we own circles".
I know it only seems like a minor minor difference but it just doesnt look, or despite not playing the game 'feel' right. The notes don't seem to flow aswell as the circles. It might just be because im used to the circles and ill have to wait until i play the game to be certain.

Anyone else have this grievance?

commence flaming.

[Ninegauger]

I think it looks better actually... and I'm waiting until I play the game to make any more judgements than that.

[BodhiWolff]

Well, for one thing, squares carry more data, more quickly, directly to your brain. No, seriously!

A circle is hampered by the fact that it has to curve at the edges. It has to take up a certain amount of area in order for it to achieve a reasonable oval shape. It has to bulge in the middle a reasonable amount. It has to be big enough to actually achieve an oval shape.

Now, add to this the idea that you want the middle of the note to be either white or black to indicate a certain type of note, which means that the oval has to be big enough to include a fill *and* a border, and you get big ovals ... which means you get a very crowded chart.

Switch to rectangles, and you clear up a lot of this!

No curves in the corners means that the rectangles can be narrower, which means you can show more notes in a confined space without them crowding each other out. You can devote more internal area to showing the white/black fill in order to make a rapid/intuitive judgement as to the type of note.

By eliminating the curved areas of the corners, you clean up the carrier of the data, compress it, can fit more of them in the same space, leave more space between them, and make the insides more recognizable by fill-type.

All of which your eye recognizes very quickly, and your brain translates automatically.

Not bad, eh? Pretty darned smart of 'em to change, if you ask me.

[BeckRokk]

Bodhi has the smart answer, but the short of it is:

Because you touch yourself at night. ;)

[zankfrappa]

Bodhi has the smart answer, but the short of it is:

Because you touch yourself at night. ;)

..hilarious..no really..never heard that one before..:rolleyes:

[zankfrappa]

Well, for one thing, squares carry more data, more quickly, directly to your brain. No, seriously!

A circle is hampered by the fact that it has to curve at the edges. It has to take up a certain amount of area in order for it to achieve a reasonable oval shape. It has to bulge in the middle a reasonable amount. It has to be big enough to actually achieve an oval shape.

Now, add to this the idea that you want the middle of the note to be either white or black to indicate a certain type of note, which means that the oval has to be big enough to include a fill *and* a border, and you get big ovals ... which means you get a very crowded chart.

Switch to rectangles, and you clear up a lot of this!

No curves in the corners means that the rectangles can be narrower, which means you can show more notes in a confined space without them crowding each other out. You can devote more internal area to showing the white/black fill in order to make a rapid/intuitive judgement as to the type of note.

By eliminating the curved areas of the corners, you clean up the carrier of the data, compress it, can fit more of them in the same space, leave more space between them, and make the insides more recognizable by fill-type.

All of which your eye recognizes very quickly, and your brain translates automatically.

Not bad, eh? Pretty darned smart of 'em to change, if you ask me.


you might say that, but to me the guitar hero charts still look a lot easier to follow. Interesting post none-the-less.

[HeXcoda]

It's not a square, it's a thick LINE. And that's the key.

It's easier to tell the exact moment the mark crosses the finish line. A circle, you don't know... well, do I strum when it's entering the circular mark, when it completely overlaps, or..? It's an odd shape to be using for a sharp timing game, whereas a line intersecting another line is totally clear.

What I don't get are the markers for HO/PO... they seem like SLIGHTLY shorter lines. That's gonna be visually confusing.

[Rook_x51]

It's not a square, it's a thick LINE. And that's the key.

It's easier to tell the exact moment the mark crosses the finish line. A circle, you don't know... well, do I strum when it's entering the circular mark, when it completely overlaps, or..? It's an odd shape to be using for a sharp timing game, whereas a line intersecting another line is totally clear.

What I don't get are the markers for HO/PO... they seem like SLIGHTLY shorter lines. That's gonna be visually confusing.

If you trained your eyes to see the difference between the black and white inner circles you'll be fine with this. It will be even easier as the human eye is sensitive to size.

[toefer]

Maybe it's just a hint about future Huey Lewis & The News DLC.

[ThePaska]

It's probably just so that they can be distinctively different from Guitar Hero.

[Quastor]

DLC to change the squares to triangles!

Also comes with the song "Triangle Man" (no clue if this song would actually work well in RB, haven't heard it in awhile).

[Rook_x51]

DLC to change the squares to triangles!

Also comes with the song "Triangle Man" (no clue if this song would actually work well in RB, haven't heard it in awhile).

Hopefully they pack this in with the DLC to allow for platinum nuggets.

[luigeirk]

Maybe it's just a hint about future Huey Lewis & The News DLC.


I like where your head's at!

[Quastor]

Hopefully they pack this in with the DLC to allow for platinum nuggets.

You are a strange, strange man.




Let's be friends!

[IbanezBassist_v2]

Funny. If it was originally a rectangle and they switched to a circle, you'd ***** about that too. Just deal, change is good!

[Clutch414]

Hopefully they pack this in with the DLC to allow for platinum nuggets.

Dude...quit stealing my material. LOL.

Actually, carry on. The "harmonix, please change the gold-nugget-pooping mode" thread was priceless.

This thread, amongst others, is just proof that given the chance, people will get all nerd-rage-y over anything.

[sa_nick]

It's probably just so that they can be distinctively different from Guitar Hero.

The dudes right.

[Spear_of_Destiny]

kinda funny how it took almost a whole page of theoretical, scientific explanations for someone to pipe up with "because its different".

Ockham is slapping his forehead in the direction of this thread.

[Rook_x51]

Dude...quit stealing my material. LOL.

Actually, carry on. The "harmonix, please change the gold-nugget-pooping mode" thread was priceless.

This thread, amongst others, is just proof that given the chance, people will get all nerd-rage-y over anything.

I think your suggestion for platinum poop-nuggets was brilliant. Keep up the great ideas, hopefully HMX is listening!

Perhaps the nuggets can be rectangular?

[IbanezBassist_v2]

Who cares. We love to derail threads.

[Clutch414]

I think your suggestion for platinum poop-nuggets was brilliant. Keep up the great ideas, hopefully HMX is listening!

Perhaps the nuggets can be rectangular?

Perhaps they should change the shape of the notes from rectangular to nugget-shaped?

I think that's a solution that covers all bases.

[Apples]

Once they shifted the kick pedal to an orange bar, square notes is a natural progression to match that convention. It wouldn't match up to have round notes on a rectangular bar.

[MartyMcFly]

Once they shifted the kick pedal to an orange bar, square notes is a natural progression to match that convention. It wouldn't match up to have round notes on a rectangular bar.

But you're hitting round pads aren't ya? ;)

[Apples]

But you're hitting round pads aren't ya? ;)

In guitar hero you hit square frets to play round notes... so YEAH! :D

[Spear_of_Destiny]

stop this bickering and embrace the duality....squares and circles seek each other. they are intertwined in their destinies. it is their karma.

[Jimmik]

Maybe it's just a hint about future Huey Lewis & The News DLC.

IT'S HIP TO BE SQUARE!!!

On a serious note, I love the rectangles. You can squeeze a bunch together without not being able to see them all, and when you get a two note chord, the way they fit together next to each other just right....Mmmm its sexy!

[Apples]

stop this bickering and embrace the duality....squares and circles seek each other. they are intertwined in their destinies. it is their karma.

That's deep man, thank you for the enlightenment. :D

[Spear_of_Destiny]

youre welcome...ill be here at least another month. ;)
i figure at least one of the dozens of senseless threads should be meaningful. hehe

[Insignificant_Other]

My 8-year-old son is no longer interested in RB because of the freakin rectangular notes! He is a GH nut and when I showed him a video of one of the songs in action he frowned and said it looked "stupid". Of course, he also won't wear his shoes if he thinks one of the dogs touched it in any way either, so maybe he's just a tad on the over-sensitive side...

I still hope to win him back - the world needs more 8 year old guitar heroes. If anyone has suggestions on how to help him get over his hatred of rectangular notes, I'm open.

[Rook_x51]

My 8-year-old son is no longer interested in RB because of the freakin rectangular notes! He is a GH nut and when I showed him a video of one of the songs in action he frowned and said it looked "stupid". Of course, he also won't wear his shoes if he thinks one of the dogs touched it in any way either, so maybe he's just a tad on the over-sensitive side...

I still hope to win him back - the world needs more 8 year old guitar heroes. If anyone has suggestions on how to help him get over his hatred of rectangular notes, I'm open.

My daughter (9 years old) loves the new look.

And I quote "The circles were dumb".

There ya have it folks. Circles are dumb.

[Insignificant_Other]

My daughter (9 years old) loves the new look.

And I quote "The circles were dumb".

There ya have it folks. Circles are dumb.

Hmm, maybe it's a gender thing. Or it could be that you outgrow that kind of thing at 9 (plus she's a girl, and probably matured a bit faster than my son).

[Rook_x51]

Hmm, maybe it's a gender thing. Or it could be that you outgrow that kind of thing at 9 (plus she's a girl, and probably matured a bit faster than my son).

I wasn't saying your son was wrong, everyone has a right to their own opinion. I was just sharing an amusing anecdote about circles and their dumbness. :p

[SmokaCola]

They went for a different look? Who gives a ****? DDR had arrows. HMX could of had triangles and it wouldn't matter. As long as the timing is perfect.

[Insignificant_Other]

I wasn't saying your son was wrong, everyone has a right to their own opinion. I was just sharing an amusing anecdote about circles and their dumbness. :p


Oh come on, please insult my son so we can engage a silly flame war. What good is a thread if it doesn't run its course and eventually degenerate into pointlessness?

[SmokaCola]

^ Your son is cool. Yeah, that's right. I said it. WHAT NOW?!

[Quastor]

They went for a different look? Who gives a ****? DDR had arrows. HMX could of had triangles and it wouldn't matter. As long as the timing is perfect.

Another advocate for triangles!

[TK-757]

I'm just pissed that we haven't had anyone step up & shout out for trapezoids.

Why the hate against the noble trapezoid, with it's four sides and sleek angles. *laugh*

[Clutch414]

I'm just pissed that we haven't had anyone step up & shout out for trapezoids.

Why the hate against the noble trapezoid, with it's four sides and sleek angles. *laugh*

I wish they had used rhombuses.

[vtjustinb]

Congruent parallelepipeds ftw.

[Xanthous]

I'm a quadricircle fan myself.

[Spear_of_Destiny]

Or Heartagrams! kidding.

On second thought, it seems to me that Triangles and Circles belong together perfectly. Anyone who doubts me needs to go to the beach and observe.....

[espher]

I, for one, would rather hit pizzas. (http://whoardan.ytmnd.com/)

[JackBNimble]

It's probably just so that they can be distinctively different from Guitar Hero.

I agree,I think it looks sharpe.Nothing wrong with a little change either!

[Haruka]

It's so much easier to read rectangles that are close together compared to circles. I don't use hyperspeed and there is at least 1 song on GH2 that is annoying to read cause the circles overlap for a couple of notes.

Anyway you'll adjust to them. I played DDR for ages before I got into DrumMania (which uses lines/rectangles) and it took a little while to feel comfortable, you just have to remember to listen to the beat.

Now we just need the option of changing the notes to suit our fancy ;) (DDR SuperNOVA for PS2 let's you choose bees, clover shape, knight from chess, pixel style arrow and some abstract stuff I can't remember - it doesn't make it harder to read though). Imagine guitar or drum shaped notes :)

[Zeldias]

Not sure if anyone said it yet, but instead of any dumb rectangles or circles, I'd like if the symbols were the almighty dodecahedron.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Dodecahedron.gif

[bumbousdude25]

Not sure if anyone said it yet, but instead of any dumb rectangles or circles, I'd like if the symbols were the almighty dodecahedron.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Dodecahedron.gif

WHA???...........:eek: .................................................. ............:eek: .................................................. ........:eek: .................................................. .................................................. ............................:eek: WHAT??? HOW DOES THAT WORK!?!?!? [Head explodes trying to figure it out]

[The_Vampire_Lestat]

I don't like the squares... but it's not going to make a huge difference.

[Nazriel]

I prefer the rectangle/lines over the circles. Just agrees with my eyes on a subtle level which is probably explained by the reasons given on the first and second page of this thread. Much more comfortable for recognition with me.



Not sure if anyone said it yet, but instead of any dumb rectangles or circles, I'd like if the symbols were the almighty dodecahedron.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Dodecahedron.gif

I see your dodecahedron, and raise you one icosahedron!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e2/Icosahedron.gif