Question for HMX - Strum sensitivity the same from GH?

[mxmarks]

Hey everyone -

Maybe someone who's played the demo could help me out too, but I was wondering about the guitar in Rock Band.

I downloaded the GH3 demo today, and for me, it's totally un-playable. I have played the guitar in GH1, GH2 and 80's all with the same "style". I put my index finger and thumb together like I'm holding a pick, and play on the strum bar in the same style I play my real guitar. I don't actually HOLD the strum bar, I hit it with upstrokes and downstrokes just like I'd hit a string.

For all those games, this worked perfectly! It was so cool to be able to play songs that I'd never be able to play in real life, and really feel like I was playing just like I would a real guitar! It was PERFECT.

In GH3, if I play this way, it will record the note I hit, but immediatley then make the missed note sound. I can't put a streak together at all. I then tried playing it like many other people do - holding the bar and switching it up and down, and had no problem. Even just downstrokes with my thumb worked. That led me to believe that what must happen is when I play like I normally do - pick style - the bar must switch from "off" to "down", but when it rebounds from "down" back to "off", it must keep going for a fraction of a second and say that I went "up", and count it as a miss.

With all that said - EVERY other GH game (All Harmonix!!!) I never EVER had this problem with. EVER!

So, I was wondering if anyone from Harmonix could assure me that you've left whatever it is that detects strumming in tact from your previous GH games and brought it into Rock Band. I know I don't play in a style that MOST gamers seem to use, but to me it feels natural and right - and works PERFECTLY on every other Harmonix game.

After being so let down the GH3 won't let me rock like I have been for the last couple years, I guess I just wanted to hear that ROCK BAND is going to be everything I hope for, and let me rock out like every other Harmonix game has. Thanks! :cool:

[tf5_bassist]

Considering as I play with a pick, this somewhat worries me about GH3. Does not worry me about RB though. The strat is smoooooth. :D

[Hendrixx]

Dude, I've had exactly the same problem with the GH3 demo. I play the same as you (makes me feel more 'rock!') and now that they've taken that away from me... well, I'm regretting preordering GH3.

I really hope Rock Band allows for our style of play...

[RiskyChris]

Considering as I play with a pick, this somewhat worries me about GH3. Does not worry me about RB though. The strat is smoooooth. :D

2 years ago when I got GH1, I played with a pick for about a week. I stopped because of all the extra mis-strums when it would rebound back.

[Hendrixx]

Starting out on GH2, my pickless - but still same technique - style of play occasionally resulted in mis-strums... eventually I honed it in so that it wouldn't do it...

Hopefully this won't be an issue upon RB release.

[HeXcoda]

I don't get why this is happening. A stroke is a stroke is a stroke is basically just a button input; why would one method of stroking really be that different than another, to the game? I'm not doubting this is the case, obviously you guys are having problems. I just have to wonder what screwball coding Neversoft did that's taking something which should be a simple binary input and turning it into a pile of fail... yow.

[RiskyChris]

I don't get why this is happening. A stroke is a stroke is a stroke is basically just a button input; why would one method of stroking really be that different than another, to the game? I'm not doubting this is the case, obviously you guys are having problems. I just have to wonder what screwball coding Neversoft did that's taking something which should be a simple binary input and turning it into a pile of fail... yow.

While I agree, it's true that there is no strict threshold on a strum that can be altered through software. The bar is either pressed down or up -- there's simply a switch sitting on the board.

However, it's possible that the game will ignore any strums that are of very, very short duration. If your bar flicks back up when you do a downstrum, it may only be activated for a mere millisecond. The game might only register a strum when it's been in the position for a few ms.

[sporkBrigade]

I sometimes play exactly how you're describing, and sometimes in GH2 I'd have the same problem. But eventually I learned not to hit it so hard and it didn't rebound anymore. As soon as I get my hands on the demo/final release, I'll let you know if I have the same problem as you. That would be a huge shame if Neversoft botched that one for me, I love doublestrumming without holding down the bar.

[HeXcoda]

I see -- so because it's not being held, it snaps back to neutral... then wobbles to opposite (registered hit!)... then back to neutral. Okay, I was having trouble visualizing it.

Obviously Gh2's strum engine could cope with this sort of thing. Did Neversoft not inherit the code base, or something? Hopefully it's an issue that can be patched (like the loose whammy bars on the 360 xplorer... I never replaced mine, but the patch dealt with it just fine by changing the sensitivity.)

[Cr1ckt]

I've always used the standard gripping the bar and pushing down/up method (i.e., not like picking.) When I first played GH1 with the original controller, I would get doublestrums. Once I switched to the Red SG that came with GHII, this problem stopped. Later I switched to the 360 version, and the Xplorer, which I've been playing on for a while. I've had no problems with doublestrumming there.

I've recently started playing on SG controllers for the PS2 version again, and I've been experiencing the doublestrumming problem, especially on Beast and the Harlot. I think the problem is that the SG's strum bar is a lot lighter than the Xplorer's, and I strum too fast on the SG. Additionally, the Xplorer has a ton of wiggle room before a strum is detected. This makes it much harder to get an accidental strum.

However, in my experience with the demo, I've never had this problem. It should be harder to doublestrum on the 360 than on any PS2 version, due to the controller. I can say that your problem is not due to any incompetency on Neversoft's part. It has more to do with your style and the controller itself.

[sporkBrigade]

I see -- so because it's not being held, it snaps back to neutral... then wobbles to opposite (registered hit!)... then back to neutral. Okay, I was having trouble visualizing it.

Obviously Gh2's strum engine could cope with this sort of thing. Did Neversoft not inherit the code base, or something? Hopefully it's an issue that can be patched (like the loose whammy bars on the 360 xplorer... I never replaced mine, but the patch dealt with it just fine by changing the sensitivity.)

Neversoft did not inherit HMX's code. They had to re-write the game from the ground up, so it's things like this I've been curious about. I wonder what other little things we've never even noticed before are suddenly about to become an issue come GH3 release day.


I can say that your problem is not due to any incompetency on Neversoft's part. It has more to do with your style and the controller itself.

I got the impression from the OP that the controller itself did not change. He downloaded the demo, which means he has xplorer controllers and GH2. He specifically said this isn't an issue with GH2, and now with the GH3 demo, it is a problem. That sounds like software to me.

If I had to guess, Neversoft just didn't account for the looseness of the XPlorer strumbar and HMX did. I've heard the new wireless controllers are a little tighter in that department, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is just a random oversight. Especially since actually strumming the bar is the less used technique.

[mxmarks]

Neversoft did not inherit HMX's code. They had to re-write the game from the ground up, so it's things like this I've been curious about. I wonder what other little things we've never even noticed before are suddenly about to become an issue come GH3 release day.



I got the impression from the OP that the controller itself did not change. He downloaded the demo, which means he has xplorer controllers and GH2. He specifically said this isn't an issue with GH2, and now with the GH3 demo, it is a problem. That sounds like software to me.

If I had to guess, Neversoft just didn't account for the looseness of the XPlorer strumbar and HMX did. I've heard the new wireless controllers are a little tighter in that department, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is just a random oversight. Especially since actually strumming the bar is the less used technique.

Yes, thats exactly right. I didn't want to bog this thread about Rock Band down with my GH3 tests, but just to be clear, I bought the demo disc, ran into the problem I mentioned in the 1st post. Then I downloaded the download - same problem. I couldn't get more than 3 stars on anything on Hard without resorting to holding the bar. Then - without even unplugging the X-Plorer - I put GH2 in, and 5 starred HANGAR 18 on Expert.

I just was pretty dissapointed, and even if the GH3 Les Paul is tighter, I don't want to buy another guitar right now - because I know that Ill definatley be getting the Strat with Rock Band. I just wanted to see if anyone from HMX could comment on if that part of the game was remaining the same as GH1 and 2 - because they were the ones who designed it, it was PERFECT, and I'm hoping that if it ain't broke, they won't try and fix it :cool:

[LongDarkBlues]

For what ti's worth, I didn't encounter that problem using the Xplorer in the GHIII demo - in GHII my first Xplorer will sometimes bounce up and register after a hard downstroke - its really annoying, but it doesn't happen that often, especially if I keep my thumb above it to keep it in the middle. My second Xplorer (the kind without the useless extra jack in the back) doesn't do that at all, but the buttons are a little slower to depress, so I still prefer the first one.

[Apples]

That stinks. If I had to re-learn such a fundamental technique like strumming, I'd be flippin' lost.

[icantwaitforrockband]

I definately have a better time strumming on the red SG than the explorer. I have the PS2 version and am the best out of my friends. I like to brag about my scores, but when I try to show them up on the xplorer I don't do as well (still better than them though...)

Anyway, on the GH3 demo (again on the xplorer) I'm finding the same difficulties as everyone else here...somethin' fishy is definately going on...

[Hendrixx]

I think the problem probably is the time needed for the bar to register a strum. I've noticed that on the GH3 demo, stroke strumming often results in notes that simultaneously register and miss... As if they were really short 'extended notes'... but that my strum is too quick for them.

Also: sorry for talking about this on the Rock Band forums... nobody on the GH3 forums - *the place where it matters* - seems to care...